Why is Trump attacking Venezuelan boats? – The Latest

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0:12We've had at least two senators saying this looks like it's the start of leading to war with Venezuela and I think there are genuine concerns that we're heading in that direction. We've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, a large tanker, very large. What happens to the oil on that ship? Well, we keep it, I guess. I don't think this is over by any stretch of the imagination. I think Trump's making it very clear now that he's not going anywhere on this and that he's only going to keep pursuing this. Why is Donald Trump attacking ships near Venezuela? And is what his administration is doing illegal?

0:48From The Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Half.

0:57I'm joined by Devika Batt, who is Deputy Editor of International News. Thanks so much for coming up to the studio to join us, Devika. So this is a genuinely wild video that was posted by the Department for Homeland Security yesterday. And it's footage of US Special Forces landing onto the deck of a massive oil liner off the coast of Venezuela. What do we know about this US operation? So as you say, it was sort of announced yesterday via both Trump himself, as well as video footage that was posted by the Department of Homeland Security, as well as Pam Bondi, the US Attorney General. So Trump, in announcing this operation, said that the US had captured or seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela, refused to say who actually owns the tanker and sort of obliquely said there could be more to come.

1:50But he did say it was seized for a very good reason. The Americans are saying it was a tanker under sanctions. And the claim is that it was transporting oil from Venezuela to Iran. And has the US said what it plans to do with all of this oil that it now seems to have seized through this operation? Well, so Trump was asked about that and he said in a slightly classically casual Trump fashion, well, I guess we'll keep it. Whether that will actually happen remains to be seen, whether that's sort of legally allowed remains to be seen. But yes, I mean, the footage is kind of extraordinary. It shows these what we presume are special forces going down onto this tanker.

2:31and they've posted this to the tune of an LL Cool J song, Mama Said Knock You Out. Some might say that's a little bit crass. Yeah, nor do we know if LL Cool J has condoned the use of his song in that footage. But so let's talk about the bigger picture because obviously this is a very unusual thing to happen. The US does not normally seize massive merchant oil tankers. But there have been aggressive actions carried out by the US in the region in the last four months or so since the summer. The US has massively built up its military reserves in the region and has been targeting smaller boats. But this is by far the biggest act that the US has carried out.

3:13Yes, and it's a different kind of act. So it's descending from helicopters onto an oil tanker and seizing it in that way. The previous incidents we've seen, as you say, are their airstrikes. And they've been airstrikes on boats that the US has accused of being narco sort of boats that are sending in drugs to the US. That's what Trump's claim is around all of this operation, that these are narco boats designed to be bringing in drugs to the US and causing huge chaos in the US. That's what he constantly says. And that's what the legal basis that they are claiming is for targeting these boats. But yes, there have been a couple of dozen, 22, something like that, strikes in the Caribbean Sea and the East Pacific.

3:54Over 80 people killed. Yeah, which is a large number of people. So the White House is saying this is about an anti-drug operation. So they're intercepting boats that are bringing quantities of drugs, be it fentanyl or cocaine, into the United States. But there are people within the US who are sceptical of that, to say the least. And Congress is becoming uneasy, aren't they? Yeah. So in the response to this latest US operation has definitely so far been, you know, quite animated in the US. So we've had at least two senators, one a Republican and a Democrat, Chris Coons and Rand Paul, saying this looks like it's the start of leading to war with Venezuela.

4:34And I think there are genuine kind of concerns that, you know, we're heading in that direction. And I mean, I guess, you know, doing airstrikes on boats in those seas anyway could be considered, you know, not exactly a non-hostile act. And I think, yeah, there probably are bigger concerns amongst people in Congress about the direction that this is going. The U.S. is very much trying to frame this as an operation that is designed to protect the U.S. They're trying to present it as something that's not an act of international war. it's something that's a defensive thing because there are these supposed alleged narco boats about to transport drugs and cause havoc in the US so they are trying to sort of frame it through that lens but it does become harder when you do something like an operation targeting an oil tanker which we don't know its exact location but the reports are that it was just off the coast of Venezuela and that definitely feels like it's a ramping up from where we were before.

5:32Yeah and a My key figure in all of this is the self-styled Secretary for War, Pete Hegseth. And I would just really recommend everyone listening to this morning's Today in Focus, which is a deep dive on him and his role in this recent aggression in the Venezuelan region. But what have we been hearing from Venezuela and the leader, the authoritarian dictatorial leader, Nicolas Maduro there? Because he said this is an act of piracy, but any sense that he's going to respond? Yeah, so he's been quite forceful about this. And he alluded to it at an event in Caracas as well, sort of saying that this is, you know, trying to frame it as the kind of American empire, sort of in almost colonial terms.

6:14This is the American empire trying to seize our oil. And that is how he has been framing this entire crisis with the US. it's hard to know exactly what the response will be in regards to this partly because if it is true that this was a sanctioned ship that does sort of slightly complicate things and the US could argue there is a legal case for it in a way that it is possibly harder to do with the airstrikes which are much more legally potentially much more legally contentious. But Maduro himself is convinced that the reason Trump is so fixated on his country is because Venezuela has one of the largest oil reserves in the world, that Trump is fixated on this oil.

6:54And of course, what was attacked yesterday and seized was a merchant oil tanker. Has Trump been willing to admit to that publicly? What do we know about that? So, yeah, absolutely. That's very much the Venezuelan argument or the Maduro argument that this is designed to get these huge oil reserves that we know Venezuela has. It's a bit more complicated than that in that they may have huge oil reserves, but they are actually quite hard to access for various reasons. There's been a lot of corruption around oil. Extraction is not so easy as it might be. You know, we did an analysis on this the other day on how that sort of pans out.

7:32And actually, if you look at the data, it sort of suggests that it would take the US 10 years to actually extract the oil. So it isn't an easy fix for them to sort of go after it in the way that people might have accused the US of doing in the Middle East. What we do know is that Trump seems to be fixated on there being regime change in Venezuela. There were elections held in Venezuela last year, which Maduro is reported to have lost. But, you know, largely it's agreed that he stole the election. His opposition candidate is now living in exile. Trump seems very fixed on getting Maduro out of power.

8:07And does that explain much of this recent activity as well? Yes, I think that's increasingly proving or showing to be a big part of the calculus here. And it has to be said, that's a policy that sort of predates Trump and could be considered a wider US policy. The US has not been historically sort of friendly with Maduro and would, you know, definitely not consider him an ally. And yes, I think this election was widely denounced, not just by the US, but by the European Union or manner of democratic countries as a sham. And so there is that sort of democracy element to it. Whether that's motivating Trump in terms of regime change is unclear.

8:47But yes, the goal of regime change seems to definitely be part of the equation now. So you mentioned just looking again at what happened yesterday with this oil tanker, that Trump said this may not be the last, that there could be more coming down the track. Where do we go from here? And presumably Venezuela's neighbours are fairly worried about this happening on their doorstep. Yes, I think the whole region is on alert for this. I mean, you've got the US now in a position where it's got an absolutely enormous military presence in the Caribbean Sea, including some of the sort of largest vessels in the world, the largest vessel in the world, the largest warship in the world.

9:25And that's got to be pretty unnerving for anyone in that region who feels as though Trump may not be an ally or the US may not be an ally. I don't think this is over by any stretch of the imagination. I think Trump's making it very clear now that he's not going anywhere on this and that he's only going to keep pursuing this. It's quite interesting in in the Department of Homeland Security sort of statement, they sort of said knockout in reference to the LL Cool J song. And then it sort of talked about how if you threaten us, we will come for you. And it feels like that's the kind of message going forward, that this is a defensive operation against the US, but we see you as a threat to the US.

10:05Okay. And meanwhile, Maduro was in Caracas yesterday in a sort of wide-brimmed hat singing, don't worry, be happy to his supporters in the context of these quite alarmingly rising tensions. But, Debrake, we'll catch up again with you soon. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. That's it for today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest, the new evening edition of Today in Focus. For more on this story, do listen to this morning's episode of Today in Focus, which is a look at the figure of Pete Hegseth, the US Secretary of War. We've also just launched a new limited series called The Birth Keepers.

10:42The six-part investigation by Shirin Kale and Lucy Osborne reveals how two influencers made millions radicalising pregnant women around the world and the trail of tragedies that followed. All episodes are available now. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin and the lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

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