School wars, Dubai's crisis PR, and is Fabrizio cancelled?

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0:30to bbc.com and the BBC app. Find out more at bbc.com slash unlimited. OK, Matt, where are you? I'm currently in Thailand. I can't really say too much about what I'm doing, but I'm investigating serious criminals here in Patea, which is why I'm not with you in London. Just a casual day in the life. Yeah, this is my other gig, which is investigative journalism. I can say more about that later. And interesting, isn't it, that something we were chatting about on the pod last week kind of has become a big deal this week. Yes. So Polly Market, basically people made hundreds of thousands of dollars from betting on the exact timing of the US's strikes on Iran with suspicious accuracy and also sort of morbidly on the death of the Ayatollah.

1:23And if you are new to Top Comment, you can go back and listen to that episode. And we, every week on every episode, are investigating the kind of stuff that's popping up on your social media feed or just kind of across the internet. Which means today we've got all sorts on the agenda. So first we're going to be chatting about this thing, Red vs Blue, School Wars. You might have seen it popping up online. We've had loads and loads of messages about it. It was basically this concern that a viral post or lots of different viral posts saying that different schools should fight each other. We're going to trigger actual real world fights.

1:57And there's been a right panic about it. And is it a phantom trend, which is what we're going to be discussing? And we'll explain what that is. And then we're going to talk about influencers leaving Dubai and influencers who aren't leaving Dubai and staying there and claiming that it's one of the safest places on Earth, which they always do. But this time with the added geopolitical context that their crown prince is protecting them from the ongoing conflict in the Middle East. Plus, we're going to be chatting about Fabrizio Romano. If you love football, you will definitely know who he is, who has done this paid ad about Saudi Arabia, which a lot of people are reacting to.

2:41so i've been sent the school wars thing by basically every parent i know i mean what what are these and are they real well exactly that because actually so many people who've reached out are people who are parents their kids are at school they've heard about maybe it's through letters that have been sent home from school or they've circulated on on you know like parent whatsapp groups stuff like that these images um sometimes there's images of like weapons knives and stuff sometimes they're just red and blue and they've got lists of schools on either side these posters seem to first spring up actually a few weeks ago in relation to um some schools in hackney so in east london and then also in croydon which we've chatted about on the podcast before in south london but over particularly the past week there started to be all these kind of copycat versions of this spreading, not just in London, but places like Bristol, the West Midlands, across the UK.

3:34But as of the time we're recording, I've contacted the Metropolitan Police and other police forces. There don't seem to have been any fights at all linked to this trend. And I think that's why it's so interesting for us to talk about, because the reaction from kind of parents and then schools and then the police appears to have triggered a much wider discussion and made these things more prominent. So it's like the panic has exacerbated the real world consequences. Like in London, there were schools where teachers were like lining the road as kids were walking home. Detentions were cancelled. The Met Police issued dispersal orders.

4:08Like you can't all gather in a group in this place or you're going to get in trouble. So it's like the impact of it has been the panic rather than any fights. That's a huge escalation because when I first saw this image and it was sent to me by tons of parents, you can see why people be concerned because it lists kind of the weapons that are allowed at this school versus school fight they're calling for, you know, knives, etc. But if you look at the weapons, it also has things like compasses and cones. And I think, let's say most young people would look at that and know that it's kind of a joke, right?

4:43This is what is so interesting about this story, because actually, it is about the social media knowledge gap that exists right now between parents and kids, teenagers. And And if you just go through the comments, it's loads of kids kind of taking the mick, basically. After school, it's red versus blue. You get me, whatever side you're on, you've got to attack the other side. And I know what I'm doing. What are you on about? Have you been playing too much Fortnite or something? Red versus blue.

5:12Why has he got a fork? Either I hadn't seen this until my mum got it on WhatsApp, e.g. it hadn't popped up on their feed, or it's popped up on their feed and they kind of aren't taking it that seriously. It is worth saying that obviously because it talks about weapons, you can see why it has freaked people out. I've spoken to one police officer detective who's seen this all unfold, who essentially said it's basically a no whim for the police to some extent because they have to do something. I mean, they can't not because knife crime is a problem in London as well. And so only one person needs to get hurt.

5:48But at the same time, the reaction from the police and parents and schools is actually the thing that's drawn kids' attention to it to some extent. And also they then go and seek it out. And obviously the algorithms, the recommendation systems are then recommending it more and more because more people are seeking it out. And then there are more copycats and it all just spirals out of control as it has. I think we should talk about a few of the moral panics that have occurred on social media over the past several years. because many of them are just like what you described, where it kind of is a moral panic that spawns from the gulf of understanding between boomers and young people on social media.

6:27And that often speaks to a kind of a moral panic that occurs when boomers and millennials are primed to find harm from social media due to their potentially justified hatred of tech companies and they over interpret these trends. Yeah. People talk about these sort of fake trends in different ways. There doesn't seem to be a widely agreed upon term. And so we have come up with phantom trends, e.g. trends that aren't really what they seem and they become a bigger deal in the real world usually than on social media. You know, things like that have always happened. The first example that comes to mind for me is the blue whale challenge in 2016.

7:04It started in Russia. It spread all across the world. But basically, there was an article in a Russian newspaper that linked loads of completely unrelated child suicides to membership of this kind of online group called F57. This is on a Russian social media website. And yeah, it led to a wave of moral panic. so far none of these suicides have been linked to this this blue whale game which is the idea is it's some kind of game where you do continuously difficult challenges and the last one is to end your life but it was banned in different countries all across the world the UK like authorities issued warnings about it so it's actually very similar to this in that the police are actually responding to that moral panic very quickly and then you've got other ones as well like there was this trend in 2019, which I remember, it was when I sort of first started investigating social media stuff at the BBC, actually, called the Momo Challenge, which was that, like, quite scary image of this kind of...

8:07Quite a terrifying image. Yeah, terrifying image of this kind of, like, googly-eyed, like, naked woman. I mean, it's a little bit strange. But basically... By the way, it's a lot scarier than Marianne is describing it right now, than a googly-eyed naked woman. Go and search it. Actually, maybe don't go and search it. But there was this fear that this character was telling kids and teenagers to do things, including to harm themselves, even to take their own lives. And it spread like wildfire. And then loads of parents were freaked out about it. And then you've got loads of media outlets covering it, saying, this has happened linked to the Momo challenge, or this has unfolded and occurred.

8:40And it all sort of legitimises it. And then you've got kids and teenagers who are just sort of like, hang on a second, I've never heard of this. It's never come up. And you've got your mum or dad saying like, beware, don't do what Momo says. And they're like, what? Ah, but they probably were worried that this could be a repeat of Slenderman. And before I go into what happened with Slenderman, in case you forgot about that terrible story, it seems that there's a kind of chronology here where step one, someone on the internet makes some random meme or image, whether that's Momo or Slenderman or whatever these school fight images.

9:14Step two, there's parents and teachers who have a moral panic about it. that makes it go bigger. Step three, the media covers it. It gets even bigger. But then step four that sometimes happens is the moral panic gets so big, the attention gets so big that these things bleed out into reality itself. And with Slender Man, you know, Slender Man was this terrifying image and it was widely shared and there was all sorts of like lore around him. But one day, two 12 year old girls in the US stabbed another 12 year old girl 19 times. She just about survived, but they did this for Slenderman is what they told police.

9:55Slenderman, they were doing it in honor of Slenderman. Now they were found to be suffering from severe psychosis and schizophrenia. And that's kind of potentially a freak incident where someone who's already mentally vulnerable kind of is on the receiving end of one of these scary trends. But there are trends that do cause more damage. There was a Benadryl challenge where you were encouraged to take a ton of Benadryl and then film yourself having the effects, which, you know, the effects of you kind of trip out, you hallucinate. It causes a bit of delirium. But you can also die. You know, two young people died taking Benadryl for this TikTok challenge.

10:29And like, I completely get it. You're a parent, especially if you didn't grow up with TikTok. You're terrified. You're like, what are they going to come up with next? A Benadryl challenge? Like what what is TikTok telling my child to do? But I think what's probably important to point out is that distinction between like a full phantom trend, like Momo say, where there was no evidence that anyone came to harm or that it even existed in the way that people thought it did. And then the kind of ones we're talking about now, so like Benadryl, Slenderman, where there seemed to be like a very small number of people who actually have come to like very serious harm and have responded to this.

11:03But there's not evidence necessarily that there was widespread harm. And then you've actually got real examples of where these sorts of things do come true and are not phantom trends at all. So I remember I was doing this investigation about TikTok frenzies where stuff really sort of like takes off on TikTok because of the way that the algorithms work. And there was this poster encouraging people to go to Oxford Street. So in central London, like right by where the BBC is actually, and to loot shops and to cause disturbances. And people actually did turn up and there were actually disturbances and the police did have to deal with it.

11:36and it was a problem. So you can see why when the red-blue stuff does start to circulate, people think, oh, is that going to happen again? But it's almost like an easy get out for everyone who doesn't really understand social media or doesn't use it in the same way to be like, oh, there's a trend, this is happening. A national trend is circulating across TikTok and Snapchat, encouraging children to cause harm to each other. This isn't a harmless challenge. This is a real safeguarding risk that UK police are actively responding to. And, you know, if you're listening to this and you are a teenager or in your 20s or younger, you'll probably be thinking, yeah, it's really weird.

12:12People keep telling me about these trends that I've never experienced. And also there is an awareness, I think that we take for granted in young people that things on social media aren't real. And I actually think it's often like older people who think that they are. I think that, you know, clavicular, which we spoke about in our first episode is another example of this generational divide. Like young people are not, for the most part, going out smashing their faces with hammers to make their bone structure better and doing all this like weird looks maxing stuff. Speak for yourself, Matt. I did think you looked, your face was looking pretty chiseled actually.

12:52You've been smashing, you've been bone smash maxing. Yeah, deaths. But yeah, I think like the moral panic with clavicular was like, is my son going to be like smashing his face? Maybe, but it's highly unlikely. I think most people know that Clivic there is a joke. They're laughing at him. So there's that generational divide that there always has been. And this school thing, I think is an example of that. Yeah, and it's like, how do you overcome that? Because ultimately everyone is inhabiting these silos on social media that are shaped by the recommendation systems that push some stuff. And so the difference between someone who's say 18 years old versus someone who's 38 years old or 48 years old and what they're seeing on their feed is like, it's really hard to inhabit different people's feeds.

13:33So you don't necessarily like speak the same lingo, know what they're seeing. This is why it's important to talk about accountability for the social media companies, because actually really, when it comes to this red blue schools thing, ultimately teachers, schools, the police, whoever, were actually just trying to do their best to ensure that something bad didn't happen. But the problem was, is that the action that they took actually, to some extent exacerbated the real world consequences of this, because it became more visible. And then there was loads of resource and time being spent on this thing where actually no fights happened at all, but they couldn't really take the risk of it not happening.

14:08So the only way that this could have not happened at all would be if the social media companies hadn't allowed this to get enough traction so that parents and schools and other people started to see it and then panic, which is basically the case for more proactive moderation. So TikTok and Snap have seemingly tried to slow the circulation of these or remove some of the accounts, take them down. But if they had a proactive moderation system so that before something was pushed by the algorithms, it had to be reviewed, then something like this would have just never happened. It would have been taken down because particularly some of them encourage violence very explicitly, which is in breach of the guidelines on TikTok, for example.

14:46And I think now that loads of countries, including the UK, are considering an under-16 social media ban, let's be honest, that discussion around whether that ban happens or not is going to be dominated by adults, the same adults who are the ones viewing social media in this moral panicked way. And they're right to pose questions about the harms caused by social media. But it's often not like our children are going to meet and have a knife fight because someone posted something on TikTok. The damages from social media are a little bit more nuanced and systemic. that's actually a good place to finish really because the way this has evolved the discussion about the red blue fights is now that some teenagers are posting saying this is part of a conspiracy theory by politicians or parents to basically get social media shut down for under 16s because they've created a craze like this which we would never have got involved in which we didn't believe to be true now they've done this so that it's another reason why we're not allowed to go on social media but yeah it the kids have gone full conspiracy

15:57so today in patea thailand i met a dubai-based influencer who had flown here fleeing the conflict currently going on in the middle east obviously dubai has been struck by a number of iranian drones and there's been this these two competing narratives currently on social media and in the media. One is what feels like a kind of vindictive, ha ha, the Dubai influencers are having to flee now from what they see and constantly are telling us this is very safe paradise. And this, you know, I think quite kind of exaggerated idea that now they want to flee back here and demand the UK military protection.

16:40Then there was this other kind of social media trend of Dubai influencers saying, no, Dubai is actually really safe. We're staying right here. This is the best city. And there was one video in particular that they kept sharing, right? Yeah, yeah. And so in terms of the context here, like Dubai has just become like the influencer capital of the world, essentially. And during the pandemic, loads of people went there and they didn't seem to have to abide by restrictions in the same ways that the rest of us were having to because of lockdowns and things like that. And this time of year, when the weather is like cold and not very good in the UK, is perfect time for influencers to be in Dubai.

17:15So when this all started happening, they were all there and you had people like on their sun lounges sort of thing or like in their apartments kind of saying like, this is scary and terrifying and what's going on. And then the messaging shifted, didn't it? And there were loads of people essentially posting the same thing. What is it again? So basically the format of this trend is it'll be a Dubai influencer and in English it says, you live in Dubai, aren't you scared? And then it cuts to an image of the ruler of Dubai and it says, no, I'm not scared because I know who protects us, which feels like propaganda.

17:56Now, most influencers say they've not been asked to post this, they've not been paid to post this. Dubai pays me in business. Second of all, Dubai pays me in safety, as ironic as it may sound. Dubai pays me in connections. I've heard people from all around the world. Dubai pays me with the weather. The sun does such a big job on keeping you healthy. But I think it's worth understanding the kind of political economic relationship that influencers have with the government in the UAE. So first of all, they have a huge incentive to be there. They get 100 % tax-free income and 100 % business ownership.

18:29They get a golden visa, 10-year residency for creators. Dubai's image as a tax-free area to grow your own business and be an influencer is crucial to its economy. On the other hand, you do since February 1st have to have a license to be an influencer in Dubai. Yeah, that's so I find that so interesting. Like, I don't know if that's the first place to sort of introduce something like that, where you basically have to declare you're an influencer, essentially. It is. So, you know, there are obviously there are country, many countries where there's censorship of influencers, but Dubai has a more kind of...

19:06It's almost like they're positive, aren't they? It's like they're like free advertising. Yes, exactly. But then the advertising has to fit with what they want. What the messaging they want. So initially, when these drones struck Dubai, some influencers were posting that they were afraid. And then the government tweeted a reminder that they can be fined for posting information that is harmful to public order and national unity. Yeah. And this is why we're talking about it, because there's a really interesting question around the kind of curation of the image of the UAE. essentially influencers are being reminded don't post stuff that is not in line with the kind of outward messaging that we like so the legislation that they're referring to means that they can target so-called false news and data that's to quote and erroneous rumors and reports with more serious consequences during crises emergencies or disasters but you know like rumors for example I mean the idea that you can't post like a rumor about what's going on I mean people post rumors as we know on social media all the time I basically make a living out of it so like the idea that you're gonna the idea you're gonna kind of quell or stop that is is interesting and and once this had been shared by the ex-account of UAE it was kind of around that time that you you started to then see the shift in like quite a few influencers had been posting things that were a bit more like we're really scared some of them still are posting things about being scared or you know trying to get home and that sort of thing but a lot of it feels like it's broadly complimentary to the government and the way that they are handling it and focused on this kind of don't worry, it's safe.

20:44I mean, ultimately, you can be fined or even imprisoned if you decide to post something that they deem to be speculation or rumours or whatever and breaches that law. There's kind of an infuriating irony around some of these influencers who are moving to Dubai in that a lot of them are so-called free speech advocates, right? So this is a country where you need a permit to be an influencer. You know, one influencer told The Telegraph that she deleted a video showing debris burning outside her apartment because social media users have to be very careful about what they say. You have to adhere to strict content standards.

21:20You have to respect the state, its leadership, the religious beliefs, et cetera, et cetera. And yet Andrew Tate, you know, a supposed free speech advocate himself, who has been a Dubai-based influencer at many points in his life, is now driving with his war room from Saudi Arabia to Dubai to show how safe it is. You know, we know that censorship, government censorship on social media is obviously a big thing. You think of Russia, you think of Iran, there's loads of places where you can get in really serious trouble for what you post on social media. I think what's interesting here is that in those cases, it's usually because you're being critical of the government in some way that could ignite, say, protests or dissidents within the country itself.

22:03Whereas what this seems to be about is the reputation of Dubai. So it's like, we don't want tourists to not come here because they think it's not safe or they think it's dangerous. And this feels like a kind of evolution in the social media censorship game. And also, in terms of that kind of glamorous image that Dubai is trying to purport, I know how the Dubai influencer package works, because I kind of studied Andrew Tate's period in Dubai. And you can be provided with basically a series of Instagram ready photo shoots and events when you go to Dubai. So it'll be a package where they give you a flashy car to drive around in for a bit.

22:45Then you get to go on a yacht. They'll provide women to be in the background if that's part of your image. Then they'll drive you up to the desert. You'll have a banquet in the desert. And it's all just to make content for your TikTok to make you look wealthy and also make Dubai look wealthy, which is part of the image. So it's basically, some might say, a hustle culture influencer grift, but on an entire state-backed level. Ultimately, this is about how Dubai has found itself pulled into this war that is affecting its image and affecting its big pull, which is people going there, influencers or otherwise, on holiday, tourists setting up a life there.

23:25And the government there are trying to control the way that its image is being changed or distorted in a way that is in conflict with the reality of it, which is it is currently, you know, in the middle of a kind of wider war zone. And like, you know, you can't fly home and you can't fly there and you, and like people probably aren't feeling super safe. So it's a government painting a picture which is at odds with reality.

23:52At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. With a subscription to bbc.com and the BBC app, you get unlimited articles and videos, ad-free podcasts, the BBC News Channel streaming live 24-7, plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries. From less than a dollar a week for your first year, read, watch and listen to trusted, independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to bbc.com and the BBC app. Find out more at bbc.com slash unlimited. OK, before we go, we're going to talk about Fabrizio Romano. I don't know how much you know about him, Matt. He's this massive football journalist, like the biggest football journalist in the whole world.

24:34He always uses that phrase, here we go, when he's talking about player transfers. And he has posted this paid advert for Saudi Arabia's humanitarian aid agency, Onyx, which got a lot of people talking and not very happy. King Salman Humanitarian Hide and Relief Centre. Over 10 years since its inception, the centre has implemented 4 ,212 projects in 113 countries worldwide, reflecting the leading humanitarian role of Saudi Arabia. So the first thing that occurs to me is this is a journalist doing a paid advert. Yeah, and we know as journalists that's not something you do, because you're basically deciding to share something because you are being paid to do it.

25:21It's a kind of conflict of interest. Even if you agree with it or disagree with it, whatever, it's basically like sponsored content. And Fabrizio Romano is broadly considered a kind of credible source of information. He's a super followed journalist. And so there will be people who believe what he says. And what he says is, you know, he talks about these different humanitarian projects, Saudi ones in Yemen. So about like health, education, food security. In the Republic of Yemen, the center projects reached 1 ,199 projects covering multiple sectors, including health sector, food security, education, water sanitation and other vital sectors.

26:00But he misses out a load of background. So we know, according to the UN and others, that these airstrikes that happened between 2015 right up until 2022 in Yemen that killed tens of thousands of civilians, they were carried out by a coalition of different places, but Saudi led them. We know that those happened and we know that those involved, including Saudi Arabia, are accused of numerous violations of international humanitarian law, even though the government in Saudi Arabia have strongly denied this and said that's not the case. I'm guessing Fabrizio doesn't mention that. No, he doesn't mention it at all.

26:37And so that's why people have such an issue with it because actually fact check, hang on, you're missing out that the reason that a lot of this aid is required is arguably because of the damage that was done in the first place to Yemen, including by countries like Saudi Arabia. Again, they kind of deny breaching humanitarian law. But we care about this because it's like that weird fusion, isn't it, Matt, between journalist and influencer? And where do you overstep that mark? And how can people know who to trust if like massive journalists like this are willing to do paid adverts? And obviously he's not a political journalist, but he does have an existing connection with Saudi Arabia.