Venezuela Update with Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin

26:23Konstantin Kisin:They didn't appoint Corina Machado, the what people widely regard as the leader the de facto leader of Venezuela he said about her she went she's a nice lady but she doesn't have the respect of the country and what people actually think he means by that is she doesn't have the respect of the army so if we look at it through that lens it's a very pragmatic choice because he's put in place effectively Maduro is one of maduro's hench people and this delci rodriguez by the way is not a moderate she was at maduro's side when he was committing his horrendous crimes when all of these awful things were happening to the venezuelan people what's really interesting as well is her father was a renowned left-wing terrorist so this is a woman who has extremism coursing through her veins is she a communist yes she's a part of the she's a part of the communist party of venezuela and do we do we

27:31Francis Foster:know why it is that they've essentially replaced one communist with another well this is where

27:39Konstantin Kisin:we get into the realms of conjecture because the rumors in venezuela are there have been multiple bounties on the heads of the regime so in the heads of the regime there have been multiple bounties However, with Delce Rodriguez and her brother, who was the head of the Senate, there was no bounty. So people are going, hang on a second. Why is it everybody else has got a bounty for 10, 20, 50 million dollars on their head? But Delce hasn't. And the rumor is, is that she was in league with the Americans. She knew what was going to be happening. She was the one who gave the information. Now, this is just conjecture.

28:21Konstantin Kisin:We don't know. these are just rumors and that's the reason why she has been stepped her she has stepped in and we have seen this smooth transition of power because she has said herself and she's made this public that she will do whatever the american the americans want she will do whatever do they

28:39Francis Foster:want have we heard what their plan is for venezuela because i mean you talked obviously at the beginning about the fact that this is a great opportunity for the venezuelan people to finally have leadership that actually represents them and their wishes and have a stable economy etc well what you're describing so far doesn't sound remotely like that no so what trump has said is

29:03Konstantin Kisin:that essentially he didn't use these words but venezuela is currently a de facto colony of the united states as of this moment he says that did he really say that no he didn't say that but that's what Venezuela is as of this moment. Venezuela is under the control of the American government. How? Because they have a leader in charge who is following the orders of the Americans. That there is, there is no question about that. If she, and Trump has said this, if she steps out of line, the same thing is going to happen. So she knows that she can't fuck around, to put it bluntly. So what Trump has said is that he wants Venezuela to be opened up to the oil companies.

29:52Konstantin Kisin:He wants the oil to be started to the infrastructure to be rebuilt. He wants the oil to start pumping. And he says eventually he wants it to be ruled by a Venezuelan leader who will treat Venezuelans with dignity and respect and be a good ally to America. But at the moment in Venezuela, You might have seen videos of Venezuelans cheering on the streets, Venezuelan flags, hot Venezuelan ladies, you know, dancing in the street, etc. None of that video footage have come from the streets of Caracas, Maracaibo, or any other city in Venezuela. Those have come from Madrid, Barcelona, Miami, wherever it may be.

30:38Konstantin Kisin:When I was talking to my friends and relatives, there is a lockdown in Venezuela. Nobody is allowed to leave their house unless you go to work and it is an emergency or you have to buy food or you have to go to the gas station. That is it. At the moment, the colectivos, which are essentially Maduro's thugs and henchmen, the people who patrol and maintain order, they're currently roaming the streets. If you were found on the streets without papers or without a good reason to be there, you are in big, big, big trouble.

31:15Francis Foster:Well, this is why I asked you why you say that the United States is in charge, because if Maduro's colectivos are roaming the streets shooting people who go out, that doesn't sound to me like the U.S. is in charge.

31:28Konstantin Kisin:But we don't know that they're shooting people. What we do know is that there is a lockdown and that. OK, but is that lockdown instituted by the Americans? We don't know. We don't know. But what we do know is that it wouldn't surprise me if it is, because there's the most dangerous thing, and we've touched on it before, is a power vacuum. And that's what they don't want, because when you have regime change like we've seen in Iraq or in Afghanistan, all of these countries, the moment you have a power vacuum, that is the time when everything crumbles. So it actually makes sense to have a lockdown and to have people in their houses and not leaving only for essentials or emergencies.

32:14Francis Foster:It's it's an interesting situation because I'm not hearing a lot about the promise of elections or democracy and all of that. Do you think that's on the cards?

32:22Konstantin Kisin:I think that's going to be a long, long, long time. I think Venezuelans have waited for 26 years to get rid of this government. I think, unfortunately, there are no promises. We don't know. There have been talks that Delce Rodriguez is going to rule for a 90-day interim period. And bear in mind as well, it's not only Delce Rodriguez at the top. all Maduro's henchmen and some of his most notorious enforcers, the Minister of Justice, the Minister for the Interior, who is also the head of the Colectivos, these people, these men are still in place. They are still in place. So even though they have had bounties on their heads for tens of millions of dollars, they're not going anywhere as of this moment.

33:14And I think what's really important to talk about is the the level of uncertainty no one knows where we're

33:24Konstantin Kisin:where this is going this is a day-to-day situation where venezuelans and other and people around the world are waking up and going what's going to happen today so it's quite apparent that america is in charge and they're saying to the venezuelan government this is enough you are going to we're going to now operate and instruct venezuela how to exist how to live how to be a country but as to the long-term future of venezuela what happens into the venezuelan people it's anyone's guess to be honest

34:06Francis Foster:we haven't really talked about maduro i don't know how important it is at this point but effectively he has been taken to the united states has been charged with drug trafficking as i understand it and he's pleaded not guilty is it fair to say that while he certainly and you know our conversation with daniel dimartino touched on this extensively it's certainly true that his people have been involved in the drug trafficking, including to the United States. That really isn't the reason that this has happened. Is that fair to say?

34:43Konstantin Kisin:No, that's not the reason that it's happened, because if we look at drug trafficking, we go, well, why not Colombia? Why not Mexico? Mexico, in terms of drug trafficking, dwarfs Venezuela. And it's not only because it's cocaine from Venezuela. But if you look at the fentanyl that comes over the border from Mexico, no, the accusation is that Maduro is part of the cartel de los soles, which is a notorious cartel, drug cartel. And these are the accusations being leveled against him. One of the things that actually people have missed is it's also his wife and people are going, well, why is his wife?

35:21Konstantin Kisin:And this is where it gets also really interesting because his wife was a politician or is a politician. And she's known in Venezuela as crueler, more vicious than her husband. Somebody who instructs the torture of political enemies, journalists, and also takes a real delight in the suffering of other people. And the fact that she was captured along with Maduro sent, I can only say, shockwaves of joy. And people in Venezuela were so happy, actually probably even more happy that she was captured than Maduro. She's known as the brains of the operation. There have been several clips that have gone viral across the Internet, showing Maduro trying to do even basic mathematics live on air and failing miserably time after time after time.

36:19Konstantin Kisin:And it goes back to the point I made. This man wasn't picked because he's a brilliant leader or he's strategically ingenious or he's an incredible politician. This man was picked because he was loyal and he followed orders. it's the people below him and around him who are the brains behind the party so again it touches on the fact that if you think or people think that just because maduro and his wife have left venezuela that the problem has been solved tragic as it is that is that simply isn't the case

37:00Francis Foster:well that you know it's interesting that we're talking about this because you know just because somebody's part of a regime doesn't mean that they will necessarily continue the same policies the example i would give is in the soviet union the ussr the people who led that country to be democratized with michael gorbachev edward sharonadza and others who were members of the Politburo. They were senior communists who were effectively a branch of that leadership cadre, who saw that the current way of doing things was no longer sustainable, and because of that, adopted pro-democracy policies. So I suppose the question is, are these people hardcore?

37:46Francis Foster:And also, So ultimately, can they be kept in line by the Americans or will they do what often has happened in Latin America, where somebody is established as a leader of the country by the Americans? And when they get the power and they get the money, they turn around and they start having a go at the gringos again.

38:06Konstantin Kisin:It's a very good question. Very, very, very, very good question. And the reality is, number one, we simply don't know. But number two, it's when you have a ruler like Trump, when you have a president like Trump, Trump's great strength is his unpredictability. And the fact that you don't know what he's going to do at any given moment, and that includes all of us, probably even Donald Trump himself sometimes, I imagine. when you're dealing with a man like that you are not going to want to antagonize provoke or anger him because you have already seen what he's done to your leader and I can't think of another president in living memory who would execute this type of plan Trump's strength and his greatest strength and his greatest weakness in fact is his boldness so if you are up against an adversary like that would you antagonize them would you want to play games or would you actually realize that if you want to keep your position if you want to keep your hold on power and most of all if you want to stay alive probably this isn't the guy to mess around with now only time will tell if

39:24Francis Foster:what i think will if my position turns out to be correct but if i was rodriguez there is no way in

39:32Konstantin Kisin:hell that I would be messing around at this point it's particularly what happens to Maduro

39:38Francis Foster:well let's turn a little bit to what's been happening in the west and the commentary in our mainstream media here in Britain and in America uh it's been uh it's been an interesting one so there's been the full range of perspectives all the way from a lot of people in the mainstream media uh banging on about international law and talking about I mean I saw one moronic tweet from I think John Simpson from the BBC talking about the fact that, well, this now means that if China invades Taiwan, we don't have the moral legitimacy to criticize them. As if having the moral legitimacy to criticize China after invaded Taiwan would stop China invading Taiwan.

40:19Francis Foster:Or we're going to provoke Russia into Russia's already invading Ukraine. That's on the one hand. On the other hand, you have, you know, the Candace Owens of the world. I can't. They're blaming Israel somehow. and then all the full spectrum of opinion in between. What have you made of the response in the West?

40:38Konstantin Kisin:The response in the West has been very interesting, particularly when you look at the position of Keir Starmer, who it's rare that I say this, but I actually had a real empathy for him because he knew that he didn't want to antagonize Donald Trump. The last thing he wanted to do was antagonize Trump. Our country is struggling. The United States are one of our greatest allies, trade partners. The last thing he wants to do is piss Trump off. And especially when, as we've talked about, Trump is erratic. Trump's emotional. That could damage the relationship. It could damage the economy, etc., etc.

41:18Konstantin Kisin:But he also had pressure from the Labour Party, prominent members like Emily Thornberry, who was saying that, you know, that this is unacceptable. The reality is when you look at the rhetoric itself, It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. What we're seeing now with Trump's actions, with his actions in Venezuela, in Iran, is the old order has now changed. This idea of international law, this idea of the, oh, you know, we have to respect, you know, sovereign nations, that's done. It's gone. Russia didn't play by those rules. And you could say that Russia haven't done badly out of it. And you're looking at America.

42:06Konstantin Kisin:America are going to play by their own rules. And it goes back to what we know. All of us who watch, listen, or read about history, it's the strong who set the agenda. If you've got the might and you win, you're right. And everybody else can talk or they can point the fingers at the blame, point the fingers at blame. But the most powerful are the ones who dictate and set the agenda. And if you're powerful enough, everybody else is going to fall in line.

42:38Francis Foster:Well, yeah, it does seem like, you know, there's been a lot of talk about the international rules based system. And it was a system that worked as long as everybody basically agreed to do what the Americans wanted. and then you know as i've talked a lot in the past about when you have a lot of people who are very excited about a multipolar world well welcome this is what it looks like this is what you wanted you wanted a multipolar world now all the great powers are going to do what they want to do because multipolarity necessarily means competition it means fighting and jostling for position it means fighting for spheres of influence and that is of course what you're now seeing.

43:17Francis Foster:And what I think President Trump has done is recognized that reality, recognized the reality to effectively say, well, look, maybe, you know, international rules based system is pretty good, but that is not what we have anymore. And if that's not what we have anymore, America has to look out for the interests of the United States and its broader alliance. And what's interesting for us here in the UK and in Europe, of course, as you mentioned, just how irrelevant Europe has made itself, just how irrelevant Britain has made itself, just how completely lacking in any kind of influence we now are.

44:01Francis Foster:And it's partly because we are no longer effectively doing what we have to do to fund the military that is capable of pulling its weight. We do not have the resources. We do not have the economies either to be able to contribute and to be able to punch at our weight, let alone above our weight in the world. And that is the reality that is being exposed every single time Donald Trump and his administration do something like this, because people just look at it and go, why would I talk to Keir Starmer? What's he going to do? Right. He's going to give me some nonsense about, you know, diversity is our greatest strength.

44:42Francis Foster:And then and that's basically all you're going to get. You know, this is not anymore a credible ally for the United States, which is deeply embarrassing and absolutely not how it should be. And if you think about where the United Kingdom has been in terms of its alliance with the US, historically speaking, I don't think we've ever been less relevant. Unfortunately, I agree with you.

45:08Konstantin Kisin:And it's not just us, Constantine. It's Europe in general. And you can see this by the way that Trump talks about Greenland. He's essentially saying that maybe we're going to go after Greenland or maybe not, but we want Greenland. Before, this would have been complete anathema to an American president. They would have never said this in a million years. But the fact that Trump and the Trump administration is talking openly about Greenland and taking Greenland shows not only do they see us as weak, but they see us as utterly irrelevant, utterly irrelevant. Because we all know if they want to go after Greenland and take Greenland, you know, what's Denmark going to do?

45:59Konstantin Kisin:What's EU going to do? The reality is we are in a new world and we've reverted back to almost to the pre-World War II order, where it was about strength. It was about power. And we can see now that that's where we are. We have the Russians invading Ukraine. We have China glancing covetous eyes at Taiwan. And we have America literally taking the Venezuelan leader and his wife, openly saying to the Colombian president, you best fix up, mate. Otherwise, I'm going to come for you. And not only that, saying, you know what, we might take Greenland as well. the old world order and the world that we used to live in a few years ago pre-russia's invasion of ukraine that is gone that is done that is over we're living in a new world now and as with all of these things you have two options we in the west we in europe we in the uk have two options we carry on and believing in international law and sovereign nations and oh you can't do this and you can't do that and I'm going to wave my fist at this and this and this is unacceptable or you get with the program and you start developing policies and implementing those policies that are effective to live in this new world well one of the things you know I'm not

47:32Francis Foster:super excited about living in a world where might makes right and the fact that we've ended up here is not necessarily a good thing, I feel. But, you know, you and I have talked about this for a long time, which is ultimately if you are dealing with other people who are willing to cheat, lie, steal, manipulate, attack, invade, etc., you need one of them on your team. If you cannot enforce world order through the United States being as dominant as it has been historically, and you have some kind of stability that is ensured through the mutually assured destruction of nuclear weapons and we have a great episode with eric weinstein coming out about just the exact impact uh nuclear weapons have had on the safety of the world but also the risk of course what you end up with is this situation where it's sort of every great power for itself and ultimately as people who live in the west and believe in the west and want the west to thrive we were always going to need people on our team, the Thatchers and the Reagans of the world, who fundamentally recognize that the only way the West survives and thrives is if we're willing to be strong and willing to deal with enemies and adversaries when they directly threaten and challenge us.

48:56Francis Foster:And to the extent that that is what Trump is doing, I think it's a good thing. And, you know, one of the things that we should probably address is that a lot of people will say, well, if you defend this, you then support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. No, I don't support Russia's invasion of Ukraine, even if I did defend this, because I want our civilization to be strong and dominant. And my opposition to Putin is based primarily in the fact that what he's doing is not in our interests. It's against our interests, not because it's about international law, which I always thought was a fiction and a ridiculous one at that, it's not something that can be enforced.

49:36Francis Foster:A law is something that requires submission to an overarching authority that is backed by the use of force. If you don't follow the tax code in this country and you don't pay your fines, ultimately, at the end of the day, men with guns will come to your house and arrest you. That's what will happen. But on the international stage, there is no such mechanism. The UN, even if you believe it is that, is not capable of enforcing any of the international laws it so happily introduces and advocates for. So what you've got effectively is something that is not enforceable and is therefore not an actual law.

50:13Francis Foster:It was a voluntary agreement that has been repeatedly violated. And to realize that and act accordingly seems to me at least effective. the morality and ethics of it obviously is a separate conversation completely completely and

50:30Konstantin Kisin:just and i want to make clear as well that there's no glee in me saying this this is simply stating of the fact of where we are but we also have to acknowledge constantin that we have signed the declaration of our own complete irrelevance our behavior this idea that we that we had somehow eliminated war, that we had eliminated conflict, that we didn't need armies. What's the point of armies? You know, that's for the barbarians. We don't need that anymore. We're demilitarized. Come on, it'll be fine. We don't need a Navy or an Air Force. Well, it turns out, actually, wars have been consistent throughout the entire history of the human being, and they will be until the day that we go extinct.

51:23Konstantin Kisin:And that's just an unpleasant reality. And one of the problems with the world that we have been living in is that we haven't been living in the real world. We just haven't. We spend more than we have. We demand comfort and safety. We say that gender doesn't exist. All of these different fantasies that we've been entertaining, you can entertain fantasy. And you can entertain fantasy for a certain period of time. But eventually, you've got to wake up. And the longer you leave the fantasy running, the more harsh the wake up call is going to be. And to be brutally honest, for us in the West, and particularly in Europe, we're facing a really harsh wake up call.

52:08Konstantin Kisin:It started with Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and it's going to carry on getting more harsh. And we need to see this as a wake up call and we need to get our own house in order.

52:20Francis Foster:What's interesting to me is how ignorant people have become about this. And it it sparks a rise of people who simply don't understand, you know, why do we why do we go? Why why can't we just have peace? Well, everyone would love peace. But if you look at, you know, Thomas Sowell, I think I think it's a Thomas Sowell line that the best way to predict human behavior is to look at human behavior in the past. And if you look at, you know, I've got a friend of ours gave me Winston Churchill's History of the English-speaking People, which I'm reading now. It's a fascinating set of books, which I'm really enjoying.

52:54Francis Foster:I mean, when you read history, it's almost always all about war. It's defined by war. It's like every English and British king and Saxon king, etc. before that, their entire lives were defined by having to defend their country and or advance its interest against enemies and adversaries. That is what it is. And President Trump is effectively recognizing that reality through his behavior. So I think there's been a lot of naivete, as you say, in the West on all sides. You know, you've got the people who think that if we just sat in our country, whether that country is Britain and America and didn't touch anyone, no one would touch us.

53:38Well, that's not how the world works, because when you retreat from the world, the world comes to your borders.

53:44Francis Foster:And that's ultimately what America has been dealing with when you've got Chinese influence all over its neighboring countries and, in fact, within the United States itself. likewise if you want American interests to be well tended to you're going to have to go out and take care of them that does not mean you have to go into Iraq or Afghanistan and stay there for 20 years and lose thousands of people and spend trillions of dollars you can be smart with it which I think is what Trump is showing but what he has done with first with the strikes on Iran and now with Venezuela is give a massive smackdown to anybody who thought that this is their time to challenge American dominance.

54:26Konstantin Kisin:Completely. And the reason that Venezuela has been the focal point is because it is geographical proximity to the United States, but also how rich in resources it is, not just all, but all of the rest of it. And if you're talking about power, if you're talking about strength, you can't have a leader like Maduro doing what he was doing, openly flaunting his alliance with your enemies, supporting your enemies, having terrorist training camps. And not only that, but gleefully taking two fingers to you. If you are going to be a nation that is run through strength and power, eventually there's going to be one provocation too many.

55:10Konstantin Kisin:And that's what happened with Maduro. The rumor is, is that there were months of negotiations where they said, and Trump said this himself, where they actually said to him, we are going to manage your exit. You can leave. you can actually leave and do like a lot of Venezuelan presidents and go and live in Costa Rica or some other country and you'll be safe and nothing will happen to you we guarantee it he refused he carried on flaunting his alliances he kept giving the two fingers and in the end he paid the price and I think that is just an aperitif for what we're going to see in 2026. It's going to be fascinating to see how the Chinese react.

55:53Konstantin Kisin:The Chinese are already saying that they had agreements with Venezuela. These agreements must be honored. We're going to see if Americans are going to honor that agreement or if there's going to be another conflict.

56:06Francis Foster:Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think that's likely, mate. But we will see what happens. Obviously, it's a fast developing situation. We should say, of course, our hopes are that the people of Venezuela finally have a government that looks after their interests and ensures that they can finally live in prosperity and enjoy all the benefits of the tremendous resources that you've been talking about. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you feel we didn't mention in this conversation that we should talk about?

56:36Konstantin Kisin:So, no, I think we have pretty much covered everything. We've smashed it, guys.

56:43Francis Foster:We've absolutely destroyed this conversation. thank you for tuning in of course if there is more updates if there are any significant changes we will do another one of these streams in the meantime of course we've got amazing episodes coming out over the next few weeks of the new year thank you for being here a lot of you have sent super chats which we really appreciate thanks for your questions for your suggestions and thanks for tuning in when there is more to share with you we will do so in the meantime if you're not already a subscriber, make sure you click subscribe right now so that you're updated the next time there's a conversation or an episode goes out.

57:21Francis Foster:And we very much look forward to being with you in 2026. It's going to be a great year for us because the world's going to shit.

57:29Konstantin Kisin:Indeed it is. And there's never been a better time to watch or listen to Trigonometry to keep you company as we all go down the proverbial plug hole.

57:38Francis Foster:Take care, everybody.

57:45Thank you.