In short
A ceasefire after Trump’s ultimatum over attacks on Iran, framed against earlier threats to “wipe out a whole civilization,” and the shifting claims about who controls the Strait of Hormuz and what negotiations will require.
Guests (CBC Washington Bureau correspondents)
- Katie Simpson (Washington correspondent; discusses story framing and “off-ramp” politics).
- Willie Lowry (Washington correspondent; tracks U.S.-Iran proposals and Strait of Hormuz details).
- Paul Hunter (Washington correspondent; provides a timeline “cheat sheet” of the escalation).
Key claims
- Trump’s 8pm deadline produced a “two-week double-sided ceasefire,” with both sides claiming victory.
- The U.S. and Iran proposals conflict (Iran’s 10-point plan reportedly includes sanction relief and Iranian control of Strait tolls).
- The episode argues the U.S. credibility gap is growing: earlier claims of “obliterating” Iran’s nuclear program vs later claims of imminent nuclear capability.
Notable examples
Trump’s Truth Social threats; UN and Pope condemnation of civilian-infrastructure attacks; right-wing debate of the 25th Amendment (Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson); discussion of tolls on the Strait of Hormuz and a possible return to a 2015-style nuclear deal.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOEscalation of Tensions
0:31 to 1:16
Discussion on the ultimatum given by the U.S. government and its implications.
“We're giving them till tomorrow, 8 o 'clock Eastern Time.”
Reactions to Ceasefire Announcement
1:16 to 2:10
Exploration of the ceasefire deal and the contrasting claims of victory.
“And guys, I'm going to quote my favorite Shakespeare play, Much Ado About Nothing.”
The Lead-Up to the Deadline
2:10 to 3:20
A detailed overview of events leading to the crucial deadline set by Trump.
“And so today we are asking, what was that all for anyway?”
Negotiations and Proposals
3:20 to 5:10
Examination of the proposals put forth by both Iran and the U.S. regarding peace.
“And as that deadline, this is a self-imposed deadline from Donald Trump.”
Potential Outcomes of the Ceasefire
5:10 to 7:00
Speculation on the implications of the two-week ceasefire on U.S.-Iran relations.
“Willie, where do we know about where things stand right now as we head into this two-week period where negotiations are going to take place?”
Media Perspectives and Public Reaction
7:00 to 9:06
Discussion on how the media is framing Trump's actions and public sentiment.
“Shall we get in the time machine and go back to 2015 when Barack Obama negotiated an agreement with Iran, the same agreement that Donald Trump removed the United States from back in 2018, I believe it was?”
Control of the Strait of Hormuz
9:06 to 14:01
Debate over who holds control over the strategic Strait of Hormuz amidst negotiations.
“Like you don't think of it as these incredibly high stakes because it's just another Tuesday.”
Contradictory Messaging from Trump Administration
14:01 to 14:18
Explore the conflicting statements made by Trump regarding Iran and military actions.
The Threats and Reality of Iran
14:18 to 15:01
Discuss the perceived threats from Iran and the implications for protests and U.S. relations.
“And now, even though there has been a significant loss to Iran's leadership, they have killed a number of these senior leaders.”
Perception Management by the Trump Administration
15:01 to 15:44
Investigate how the Trump administration frames victories and realities to the public.
“And so we've been saying for a while now, what's the way out here?”
Show all 21 chapters
Military Success vs. Economic Reality
15:44 to 16:13
Analyze the duality of military success against Iran while recognizing its economic resilience.
“I would say that these two things can be true, that the U.S.”
Global Reaction to Trump's Threats
16:44 to 17:46
Examine the international backlash against Trump’s military threats, including reactions from the Pope.
“Trump's threats were met with condemnation from the United Nations.”
Right-Wing Media and Trump’s Influence
17:46 to 18:59
Discuss how right-wing influencers are responding to Trump's actions and rhetoric.
“I mean, so like what do we think this is?”
The Complexity of the 25th Amendment
18:59 to 21:12
Delve into the discussions surrounding the constitutional methods of removing Trump from office.
“And then if the president says, no, I am fit, they have, I think, 48 hours to decide again.”
The Limitations of Checks and Balances
21:12 to 22:39
Explore the inadequacies of current political checks on Trump's authority and decisions.
“Some of the criticism has been, OK, here comes another strongly worded statement from Chuck Schumer.”
International Relations in a Trump Era
22:39 to 24:03
Analyze how Trump's rhetoric affects international alliances and leaders' responses.
“armed forces in a position of do we follow the commander in chief and commit war crimes potentially that we know to be or believe to be war crimes or do we deny that and risk being jailed?”
America's Global Standing and Military Might
24:03 to 24:56
Assess America's military capabilities while considering its credibility on the world stage.
“It's kind of like the kid in the back of the classroom was just hoping that the teacher doesn't call on him.”
Credibility Gaps in U.S. Military Claims
24:56 to 27:06
Evaluate the inconsistencies in U.S. claims about military actions and their effectiveness.
“might like we haven't seen in several decades.”
Uncertainty of Future Actions
27:06 to 27:26
Reflect on the unpredictable nature of U.S. foreign policy and military engagements going forward.
“And yes, it is very clear that America did degrade Iran's weapons and military capabilities, and they did sink all these ships, and they did do all these things.”
Reflections on Vancouver's Climate
28:00 to 28:37
The hosts discuss their experiences and perceptions of Vancouver's mild climate during the Olympics.
“there are other more mild parts of our big, beautiful country.”
Listener Engagement and Feedback
28:37 to 29:00
The hosts thank listeners for their feedback and share contact information for engagement.
“Well, thank you to everyone for sending us your feedback.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Katie Simpson:If you've ever wished someone would explain what's going on with reproductive rights without feeling overwhelmed and alone, hi, welcome. I'm Jenny Wetter, host of Repros Fight Back, where we make sense of the headlines from shifting abortion bans to contraceptive fights and attacks on LGBTQ rights and gender affirming care. We talk to experts on the front lines and share real actions you can take. You'll walk away thinking, OK, this is hard, but I'm not alone and it's all making a little more sense. Listen to Repros Fight Back wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. We're giving them till tomorrow, 8 o 'clock Eastern Time.
0:38And after that, they're going to have no bridges.
0:41Katie Simpson:They're going to have no power plants. Stone Ages, yeah.
0:48Paul Hunter:Fully open the Strait of Hormuz agreed to a deal that was the ultimatum from U.S. President Donald Trump Monday morning. Or else, he said, face attacks on bridges and power plants.
1:00Willy Lowry:writing, as he does on social media, a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. A whole civilization will die.
1:11Katie Simpson:And here we are on Wednesday morning. That 8 p.m. deadline has come and gone. And guys, I'm going to quote my favorite Shakespeare play, Much Ado About Nothing. Both sides are claiming victory after this ceasefire deal was reached. Let's take a brief listen to the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth and how he decided to characterize things this morning. No other president has shown the courage and resolve of this commander in chief. President Trump forged this moment. Iran begged for this ceasefire. And we all know it. As a president truth this morning, a big day for world peace.
1:51Paul Hunter:That is how the Americans are framing things. Now, we were all watching to see what was going to happen Tuesday night as that deadline approached. And that's why we're recording this conversation Wednesday morning. This episode is dropping a little later than usual. We wanted to see what was going to come out of the deadline to make sure that we can make sense of it all in our conversation now. And so today we are asking, what was that all for anyway? I'm Katie Simpson.
2:17Willy Lowry:I'm Willie Lowry. And I'm Paul Hunter. We are your CBC correspondents at the CBC's Washington Bureau, which sits conveniently two blocks from the White House.
2:27Paul Hunter:Paul, let's start by taking a minute to catch people up on where we are in this moment. Can you walk us through the lead up to that deadline that Donald Trump had announced?
2:37Willy Lowry:I brought a cheat sheet.
2:38Paul Hunter:Oh, excellent.
2:39Willy Lowry:Look, it says cheat sheet right on it. So I'm going to read from it. Nine easy points. 39 days ago, Trump and Israel attack Iran. The objectives were a moving target. No nukes, regime change. Then Iran doesn't fall. There's a new supreme leader who's a younger version of the old supreme leader. People don't rise up. The Strait of Hormuz effectively closes. Prices up everywhere. World freaks out. U.S. jet shot down. Trump starts swearing, threatens war crimes. His message, give up, or again, a whole civilization will die. 39 days. That's what we've been through the last six weeks. That's where we were as of last evening.
3:22Paul Hunter:And as that deadline, this is a self-imposed deadline from Donald Trump. As that inched closer, Willie, we were all keeping our eye on Truth Social, Donald Trump's social media platform, because that's where a lot of the updates have been coming from. And as that deadline inched closer, we finally did get an update.
3:45Katie Simpson:Yeah, of course it was on social media, right? I mean, where else would it be? But I think Paul summed it up. Is there anything else left to talk about? I don't know. Did I miss anything? The announcement of a deal. That gets us to the deal. But was it a deal? Let's parse through a little bit that message that he posted to social media last night at, I think, around 6.30. 90 minutes before the 8 o 'clock deadline. As we know from previous podcasts, my math isn't great, but I think that brings us to about 6.30. And I'm going to read some of it, but not all of it, because it's quite long winded.
4:47Katie Simpson:For a period of two weeks, this will be a double-sided ceasefire. Two things to point out. First of all, that brings us back to where we were on February 28th, before the U.S. and Israel launched this war against Iran, which was an open Strait of Hormuz. Second point, what's a double-sided ceasefire? A ceasefire suggests both sides are going to cease hostilities.
5:11Paul Hunter:Willie, where do we know about where things stand right now as we head into this two-week period where negotiations are going to take place?
5:17Katie Simpson:Yes. So we know that Pakistan has invited both sides to Islamabad on Friday, April 10th, hoping to kind of convene there to work through some of the points. I'm going to take a bit of a step back. Several weeks ago, the U.S. put forward this 15 point proposal. Iran rebutted that with a five-point proposal. And then sometime in the last day or days, Iran put forward this 10-point peace proposal that on social media, Trump said, was essentially a workable basis. But I've taken a look at those 10 points that Iran has put forward. Almost all of them seem to be counter to what the U.S. wants to see, including that Iran would essentially control the Strait of Hormuz.
6:04Katie Simpson:An end to all sanctions?
6:34Willy Lowry:And framing that as a basis for negotiations. Exactly.
6:37Katie Simpson:But again, that brings us back to what was already in existence on February 28th or 27th.
6:41Paul Hunter:And if we go back even further, Donald Trump this morning is posting on social media that they're looking at or they're talking about removing sanctions on Iran. So if this is heading toward talks where Iran gets sanction relief, where there's some sort of agreement there about Iran's nuclear capabilities, if Iran does agree to something, you know, about restricting what it's going to do, what does that take us back to? Shall we get in the time machine and go back to 2015 when Barack Obama negotiated an agreement with Iran, the same agreement that Donald Trump removed the United States from back in 2018, I believe it was?
7:20Paul Hunter:It seems to be, is that where this is headed, a new Iran nuclear deal, you know, after Donald Trump trashed the last one that was in existence? Is that what this is headed toward? There are so many sort of what it seems to be is like contradictory messages or sort of facts in this moment that don't seem to square.
7:42Willy Lowry:Let me put a question to you, Katie, and I'm going to frame this carefully so that you can answer it. This is the taco question.
7:48Paul Hunter:Oh, yeah.
7:48Willy Lowry:Will this be framed by Trump critics, by people, as Trump chickening out? Taco. Trump always chickens out. Is that going to be the headline for a lot of people here?
8:03Paul Hunter:Well, when the stakes are this high, when Donald Trump's threat, the thing he chickened out from, was wiping out an entire civilization, I think there is a sense of relief that, well, thank God he did. So I was having a conversation with the editorial team at The National last night, which is a normal part of the process when we file. And we were talking about how do we frame this story and everything was late breaking and moving quickly. And my initial sort of instinct was to frame it as taco. Trump always chickens out because colloquially, you know, my phone sort of exploded with, you know, people from Canada that don't work in news.
8:43Paul Hunter:And that's how they sort of described it. You know, people calling it Taco Tuesday. But when it when I talked it through, it sort of sounded flippant when the stakes are so high. So in the end, we had a discussion and we ultimately decided that that doesn't feel right. But it certainly is part of the conversation that people are having.
9:01Willy Lowry:In a weird kind of way, I think that almost reflects how so much of this has been normalized. Like you don't think of it as these incredibly high stakes because it's just another Tuesday. It's just another day in the Trump administration.
9:13Katie Simpson:I would add that I think you made the right calculus. And we have to also remember that putting aside the incredibly real ramifications of Trump's potential decisions and actions, he knows about Taco. And he needs to be given the space to be able to back down or walk back from some of these decisions that are of such immense impact without, you know, being accused of taco.
9:45Paul Hunter:There needs to be off ramps. Off ramps are normal in conflict. Off ramps are normal in politics. And when Donald Trump sort of has this sort of stigma around him, taco taco, he always chickens out, it can in some ways be harder to justify an off-ramp in some ways.
10:01Willy Lowry:But I would argue it's not just a pattern of decision-making. It's his M.O. through his whole, I won't say his whole life, but certainly his whole life in the business world. The difference before was that it was about real estate deals. Now it's an entire civilization in the potential crosshairs. He has always believed that you threaten with everything that you have so that you can get the most back. And we can talk about whether this deal and wherever this ends up is something that the U.S. has got in return for that threat. But that's what he always does. The difference now is, you know, one of the things I had in my radio script yesterday was it was put to the spokesman at the U.N.
10:44Willy Lowry:Like, is he going to use a nuclear weapon? Right? This is the difference he has now. He can threaten the annihilation of a civilization, and he has the ability to carry that out with the, you know, figurative press of a button.
10:58Katie Simpson:I was going to say, you know, in business, he could use the figurative nuclear option to blow up a deal. But, of course, when you're dealing with politics, he literally does have the nuclear option, which is obviously carries with it such profound implications.
11:14Willy Lowry:that we're having right now. I mean, another question that was put to the UN yesterday was, has Trump lost his mind?
11:19Paul Hunter:That was a question that so stood out to me and the UN spokesman.
11:23Willy Lowry:He just said, I'm not going to answer that.
11:24Katie Simpson:Does the Secretary General think that President Donald Trump is out of his mind? I'm not going to answer that question. I think what we want, what we all need is a return to sober dialogue,
11:38Willy Lowry:sober analysis and sober action. But the fact that it was put out there.
11:42Katie Simpson:And then there's a theory that this was a madman theory that, you know, he was using that maximalist approach to try and get what he wants. Yes, absolutely. That's his thing.
11:56Paul Hunter:Willie, you sort of talked about what is different now versus what the state of play was before the first Israeli and American strikes on Iran. One thing that has changed or we've seen some change around is the Strait of Hormuz. And Paul, out of this, as of, you know, this moment we're having this conversation, do we have a better understanding of who's actually in control of the Strait of Hormuz?
Read the full transcript
12:20Willy Lowry:Well, over to you, Willie. Let me just check my nose. But isn't that the point? That's the point, right? That's the point, right? That even that question can be raised. I don't know. Let's ask that in two weeks, right? I mean, Iran's view is that it's going to, if not having a, it's not going to have a toll booth. I think they were going down that path a little bit. But it will be the Iranian military that will have ultimate say over things. The U.S. is going to say it will be in partnership. Now Trump is already talking about partnering with Iran. On tolls. Yeah.
12:54Paul Hunter:There's, okay, there's a post from Jonathan Karl, who is an ABC News reporter. He covers the White House. He's a very credible reporter, very good at his job. Great stuff. And he called President Donald Trump. Everyone in Washington has Donald Trump's cell phone number and all these reporters just call him up and he talks to them. And he says that he had a conversation with Donald Trump shortly after sort of some of the details about what the U.S. is trying to negotiate to come out. And he said he'd asked Trump whether he was comfortable with Iran charging tolls on the Strait of Hormuz, because how would Iran generate revenue to rebuild its weapons systems or possibly rebuild, you know, its nuclear development capabilities?
13:29Paul Hunter:It could be massive tolls on all of these ships going through the Strait of Hormuz. And Donald Trump floated the idea of partnering with Iran to go forward in a joint venture.
13:40Katie Simpson:I just need to point out that when I was in Paris with Secretary of State Marco Rubio last week, this was a major part of the message that he was bringing to his G7 allies that they cannot allow Iran to put tolls or to charge a fee for these ships. And yet now all of a sudden, it's not just Iran, but the U.S. would be in on that. So it's hard to comprehend.
14:03Paul Hunter:It puts us in this moment where there are so many of these different things that Donald Trump and the U.S., the Trump administration, you know, they're putting forward as they describe as facts that just seem so contradictory. So Donald Trump threatens to wipe out this civilization, talks about how dangerous Iran is and how they were weeks away from having a nuclear weapon, weeks away from launching attacks, whatever Donald Trump has said to justify this. And now, even though there has been a significant loss to Iran's leadership, they have killed a number of these senior leaders. There are new leaders in there.
14:39Paul Hunter:But it's still the same regime. Donald Trump is saying that it's still dangerous for people to go out there and protest in the street, warning that these people will get shot. The same time, the U.S. is now looking to partner with them. He describes them as less radical. But are they less radical? Can people go out and protest? Like what what is sort of the situation here? And again, it speaks to the Trump administration sort of framing things in a way that is just most convenient for them, including that this was victory. Yeah.
15:10Willy Lowry:Right. And so we've been saying for a while now, what's the way out here? Well, what's the face saving way that that the White House that Trump can spin to find an exit ramp? And the answer is, I think, by simply saying it is so and saying it is so again and again and again. And you talk about patterns of behavior, Katie. That has been the pattern of behavior of the Trump administration in both terms, 1.0 and 2.0. Just keep saying it again and again. And eventually that becomes, it's the old cliche that the more you say it, it becomes the truth, at least in the minds of many, if not enough.
15:44Paul Hunter:Look at election fraud. Look at January 6th. It all is in the same pattern.
15:47Katie Simpson:I would say that these two things can be true, that the U.S. overwhelmingly, militarily speaking, won this war. Agreed. And yet Iran, from an economic perspective, from its ability to inflict economic pain, not just on the region, but the world through the Strait of Hormuz, also won.
16:12Katie Simpson:If you've ever wished someone would explain what's going on with reproductive rights without feeling overwhelmed and alone, hi, welcome. I'm Jenny Wetter, host of Repros Fight Back, where we make sense of the headlines from shifting abortion bans to contraceptive fights and attacks on LGBTQ rights and gender-affirming care. We talk to experts on the front lines and share real actions you can take. You'll walk away thinking, OK, this is hard, but I'm not alone. And it's all making a little more sense. Listen to Repros Fight Back wherever you get your podcasts.
16:44Paul Hunter:Trump's threats were met with condemnation from the United Nations. The pope said, you know, hey, remember, if you go after civilian infrastructure, that's against international law. The American born pope rebuking, you know, the threats from the Americans. And then we're seeing this wing of influential right wing online personalities, people like Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson, who at the Republican convention that we were at basically
17:13Willy Lowry:called Trump God's chosen one. He was responding to Trump's tweet on Sunday. I'll quote some of Trump's tweet. Open the effing straight. He didn't say effing. You crazy bastards. And then Trump said, and this is on Easter weekend, praise be to Allah. This is a mockery not just of Islam. It's a mockery of Christianity.
17:33Katie Simpson:To send out a tweet with the F word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying praise be to Allah without explaining any of it.
17:41Willy Lowry:You are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christians. We can't support that. Tucker Carlson. I mean, so like what do we think this is? How is this playing in Magaland?
17:51Paul Hunter:So this is now leading to heated debates in that right wing influencer media ecosystem about ways to remove Donald Trump from office. Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist I've mentioned before, who, again, he was known for spreading lies about what happened when a gunman killed a bunch of young children in a school in Sandy Hook. he has been a very loud activist for the MAGA movement for Donald Trump. On his most recent podcast, he was asking a guest. How do we 25th Amendment is ******? Which means find a way to, it's a constitutional way to remove the president if he's incapacitated from office.
18:34Willy Lowry:Exactly, or unfit, I think is also part of it. Yeah, unfit. He's to be declared unfit. This talk first came up in Trump 1.0 again, right? There was talk about that. But easier said, I mean, first of all, and the point you're making is that the fact that people are talking about that. In truth, it's a complicated, like if people go home tonight thinking, oh, maybe that's going to happen. It's hard, right? You've got to have a majority of cabinet and the vice president agree. And then if the president says, no, I am fit, they have, I think, 48 hours to decide again. and if a majority of cabinet, and by the way, the cabinet is all the people selected by Trump,
19:15Paul Hunter:and we know that they are quite Trump-y, and again the vice president,
19:20Willy Lowry:and then if the president again says, no, I am fit, it then goes to Congress, where you need two-thirds of Congress to sign off on this. So it's one thing to say, and it's very significant that it is being said, but it's a complicated thing to achieve, in fairness.
19:35Katie Simpson:I do. I want to. We've spoken about it off the podcast, Katie, but Carlson's kind of point about the religiosity of it. It's interesting. Hegseth has repeatedly invoked God over the course of this military campaign in a way that's made a lot of Americans, quite frankly, uncomfortable.
19:58Paul Hunter:Yeah, it speaks to the way that religion plays a factor into, you know, how important religion is to the people who are making these decisions. And, you know, Pete Hegseth during the news conference where they talked about the rescue of the two American service members who were in that plane that Iran shot down. When he talked about the rescue operation, which happened over Easter weekend, he compared it or sort of seemed to like point to parallels to the story of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
20:27Katie Simpson:Flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for, a nation rejoicing. God is good.
20:41Paul Hunter:America is supposed to be this place where, you know, church and state, there's a separation of church and state and all that kind of thing. But this is a reminder that the influence of faith, the influence of religion is something that is a significant factor when it comes to these decision makers.
20:56Willy Lowry:I think the bottom line in all of this bit of the conversation is that there are countless Americans now, including many who voted Republican last time around, who would say that Donald Trump is demonstrably unfit for office. But there's not much they can do about it.
21:11Paul Hunter:And to that point, there is a lot of criticism right now in left wing online circles about what have the Democrats done to try to stop Donald Trump. Some of the criticism has been, OK, here comes another strongly worded statement from Chuck Schumer. You know, calling for a vote on the war. And like, what has anyone done to stop Donald Trump from any of this? And I think one of the main takeaways from this entire war, from this conflict at this point in time, is that it illustrates that if Donald Trump wants to do something, there are very few sort of checks and balances to his power. because what has been done to stop him from this?
21:55Paul Hunter:Donald Trump is supposed to get permission from Congress before going to war. He keeps trying to use different language and not call it a war. But Donald Trump pushed ahead with this military operation, with this war. And no one, nobody can stop him. And presidents had agreed in some ways to abide by these norms and regulations. And when someone doesn't want to do it, there isn't really much to stop him.
22:19Katie Simpson:The co-equal branches of government. But this entire second term seemingly has been an exercise in Trump's ability to govern without the input of the legislative branch. And thus far, he's done it pretty effectively on that front.
22:35Willy Lowry:Or even on the matter of the potential for war crimes, if he had wiped out an entire civilization by whatever means he was planning, expecting, positing that he would use, that left the U.S. armed forces in a position of do we follow the commander in chief and commit war crimes potentially that we know to be or believe to be war crimes or do we deny that and risk being jailed?
23:02Katie Simpson:It's also put America's traditional allies in a pretty tough spot as well, right? This kind of rhetoric is seemingly intolerable from a Canadian and European perspective. But what are we seeing from their response?
23:17Willy Lowry:Oh, silence, effectively, because they have come to learn in this, what are we now, 14 months into this term, that if you poke the bear, it's going to bite. Or you risk a bite, or you risk tariffs doubling, or you risk more rhetoric about seizing Greenland or Canada, you know. And it's like, so it's almost like they collectively want to just hope it doesn't happen. Because if you say this is crazy, what are you doing? The risk is, I think it's fair to say world leaders believe, the risk is he'll up it even more. This is the world we're in now with the United States where everybody is afraid to offend or push back.
24:02Willy Lowry:And so to your question, Willie, again, effectively speaking, at best, muted criticism.
24:10Katie Simpson:It's kind of like the kid in the back of the classroom was just hoping that the teacher doesn't call on him. I may or may not have been that kid.
24:17Paul Hunter:So if we circle back to it all, the start of this conversation, we asked a question. After all of this, what was it all for? What's changed? Paul, I'm going to start with you. Does this affect America's standing in the world?
24:33Willy Lowry:What's standing?
24:33Paul Hunter:Exactly.
24:34Willy Lowry:I mean, at this point. I mean, I don't mean that as facetiously as it sounds. but I think the world doesn't know what to make of this country right now and I think that's a very dangerous place for the world to be in and and for all of us frankly and that sounds like it's a hyperbolic overstatement but it isn't and we don't know what tomorrow will bring with this country as the boundaries continue to be pushed I think it is shown America's military
25:04Katie Simpson:might like we haven't seen in several decades. They were decisive. They were capable of targeting, finding, eliminating with Israel's help, of course, so much of the Iranian leadership, but also of the country's military assets. But at the same time, it's shown the tremendous shortcomings of the administration's plan that it doesn't matter how much military might you have. If you don't have a fundamental understanding of the people that you are fighting against, which I think this is part of what was lacking, it doesn't matter what you achieve. And what Iran has achieved is exerting control over a major, major economic artery like we've never seen before.
25:54Willy Lowry:You're talking about Iran? I thought you were talking about Afghanistan. Oh, no, sorry. I thought you were talking about Vietnam. Sorry, but it's true. Come on, you know.
26:01Paul Hunter:I think really something that stands out here is that this entire conflict has really illustrated a credibility gap that is only getting bigger when it comes to the claims of the Trump administration. So when, you know, the U.S. went and bombed Iranian nuclear facilities last June, Donald Trump said it completely obliterated their nuclear program. but then months later, okay, now their nuclear program, they are so close to developing something, we have to go in and act now. How does that make sense? How is it that the Americans can come forward and provide so many specific details about this rescue operation when it comes to the American pilots that were lost in enemy territory, but they can't provide any details about this erroneous strike on a girls' school that killed more than 100 people, I think close to 200 people, including children, many children.
26:53Katie Simpson:That's a really good point.
26:53Paul Hunter:Where are the specifics about that? So many things in this moment don't make sense, and there doesn't appear to be any sort of effort by the Trump administration to make things make sense on some points. And yes, it is very clear that America did degrade Iran's weapons and military capabilities, and they did sink all these ships, and they did do all these things. But because of that credibility gap in this moment, it is so difficult for people to look at this and really know what's going on.
27:22Willy Lowry:We also don't know where we're going to be in two weeks' time. That's a good point. It's a kind of bottom line for the moment. Yeah.
27:28Paul Hunter:So on that note, we've got more work to do today. We have to go get back to our regular jobs, our other jobs. This is part of our job, I think.
27:36Katie Simpson:I've been up since four, guys. So at this point in this episode, we're not going to have a listener question for this week.
27:47Paul Hunter:I know everyone will be very disappointed.
27:48Katie Simpson:Tiny vial. Says the guy complaining he had to wake up for this podcast. Before we wrap up, though, I wanted to give a quick shout out to Lise Lemieux in Vancouver for sending us a really lovely email after last week's episode reminding me that despite the fact that my mom's beautiful garden was still very much buried under snow, there are other more mild parts of our big, beautiful country. I always forget how mild Vancouver is. First time I went, quick story, I know we have to wrap up, was the Vancouver Olympics. and I remember just seeing green and I was like, this is the winter we're showing the world?
28:22Katie Simpson:This is not a Canadian winter.
28:24Paul Hunter:It's Vancouver, man.
28:25Katie Simpson:But anyways, merci encore, Lynn, pour votre courriel et pour votre photo. C 'est très gentil de vous. She spoke to me in French and English, our two official languages, so I thought I'd extend the same courtesy.
28:37Paul Hunter:All right. Well, thank you to everyone for sending us your feedback. If you do want to get in touch with us, our email is washingtonpod, all one word, at cbc.ca. That's WashingtonPod at CBC.ca.
28:49Willy Lowry:Or leave a comment for us on Spotify. And don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Paul, Willie, we'll chat next week.
28:57Paul Hunter:Katie, Paul. Thanks, guys.
29:00Katie Simpson:See ya.
29:08Katie Simpson:For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC.ca slash podcasts.
From the publisher
The world held its breath Tuesday as U.S. President Donald Trump threatened to bomb civilian infrastructure if Iran did not meet a deadline that night to open the Strait of Hormuz. Then, the same day, he accepted a Pakistan-brokered deal for a two-week ceasefire.
After inciting outrage and then abruptly halting the war, what exactly has Trump accomplished in Iran? CBC’s Washington correspondents Katie Simpson, Willy Lowry and Paul Hunter try to find an answer.
