In short
The political fallout and meaning of the shooting at the 2024 White House Correspondents’ Dinner, and what it reveals about U.S. political violence and rhetoric.
Guests (hosts)
Paul Hunter and Willie Lowry, CBC Washington correspondents, both reporting from two blocks from the White House during the attack.
Key claims
The correspondents describe the chaos as they heard gunshots, saw Secret Service evacuate VIPs, and initially didn’t know the shooter’s status. They argue political violence has become normalized and that security responses (e.g., more hardened protection) are crowding out discussion of guns and mental-health solutions. They also link Trump’s rapid pivot to attacking journalists and Democrats to an echo-chamber of blame that escalates rhetoric.
Notable examples
Cole Thomas Allen (California; teacher/tutor/mechanical engineer) allegedly sent a “manifesto” before the attempt; Trump’s 60 Minutes response; references to Reagan/JFK-era assassination attempts and victims; discussion of Trump’s “ballroom” construction plans and calls for $400M taxpayer funding.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOSetting the Scene
0:34 to 0:55
Discussion about the unexpected lockdown during the correspondents' dinner.
The Incident Begins
0:55 to 3:19
Narrative of the gunshots heard during the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
“We don't even know what's happening here.”
Processing the Trauma
3:19 to 4:41
Paul Hunter shares his emotional response and experiences during the shooting.
“And we're CBC's Washington Correspondents.”
In the Moment
4:41 to 8:19
Detailed account of the moments following the gunfire and the response of the Secret Service.
“We were literally the closest table to it.”
Reflections on the Event
8:19 to 11:12
Discussion on how the shooting reflects the state of U.S. politics and personal experiences.
“that was an eternity or was it five seconds you know a little bit of time passed and then the doors were all closed.”
The Shooter's Background
11:12 to 14:03
Overview of the suspect's identity and motivations leading to the incident.
“You know, I have this thing that I talk about with young journalists sometimes when you're being sent into a conflict zone that you kind of step on what I've come to call the conveyor belt of fate.”
Incident Overview: The Charges
14:03 to 14:15
Learn about the charges faced by Cole Thomas Allen related to his attack plan.
“In terms of what we know so far, he's now facing three charges, including there's two gun charges and then there's one count of attempting to assassinate Donald Trump.”
Background on Cole Thomas Allen
14:15 to 14:43
Discover the background and motivations of the individual involved.
“He had been a teacher, a tutor, a mechanical engineer from California, extremely well-educated, had expressed frustration with the Trump administration for quite some time.”
Understanding the Manifesto
14:43 to 15:19
Examine the content and implications of the manifesto sent by the assailant.
“And, Paul, we've been able to see what authorities have sort of leaked to a number of American media outlets.”
Psychological Insights: A Disturbed Mind
15:19 to 15:35
Delve into the psychological aspects reflected in the manifesto's content.
“The part that stood out for me was the administration is full of pedophiles and rapists.”
Show all 24 chapters
Trump's Outrage and Media Response
15:35 to 16:10
Explore Trump's reactions to the manifesto and the media's portrayal.
“It's a suicide mission to do something like that.”
The Irony of the Correspondents’ Dinner
16:10 to 18:21
Analyze the conflicting messages surrounding the correspondents' dinner event.
“Well, I was waiting for you to read that because I knew you would because you're you're you're horrible people, horrible people.”
Reflections on Press and Power Dynamics
18:21 to 21:14
Discuss the complex relationship between journalists and political figures.
“We are in this kind of echo chamber where each side is blaming the other and has blamed each other repeatedly for this escalation of rhetoric.”
Why Trump Attended the Dinner
22:26 to 23:18
Investigate Trump's motivations for attending the correspondents' dinner.
“We actually got a question from a listener named Jane Witherspoon in Toronto that's kind of along the same lines.”
The History and Impact of Correspondents' Dinners
23:18 to 24:14
Learn about the historical significance of correspondents' dinners in politics.
“And Obama just like mocked Trump mercilessly with the video and the jokes.”
Infrastructure and Security Post-Event
24:14 to 25:10
Examine the implications for security following the dinner incident.
“He's using what happened to justify construction.”
Gun Control and Political Rhetoric
25:10 to 26:01
Discuss the lack of focus on gun control in political discourse.
“I'm trying not to say the word conspiracy theories because Katie's going to lose her mind if I do.”
Violence and Its Historical Context
26:01 to 28:02
Reflect on the history of political violence in the context of the event.
“Because is that the solution to what the problem is right here?”
Reflections on Political Violence
28:02 to 29:11
Explore the incidents of political violence in the U.S. and their historical context.
“the Republican House majority leader, who in 2017, I think I did that story, was shot at a congressional baseball game.”
The Normalization of Violence
29:11 to 30:42
Discussing the normalization of political violence and its implications for society.
“We're unquestionably in a moment of increased political violence in this country.”
Personal Takeaways from the Dinner
30:42 to 31:59
Understanding how the events shape personal and professional perspectives.
“That seems to be where we are now in light of the fact that the answer right now seems to be, you know, hardened security ballroom per.”
The Power of Storytelling
31:59 to 33:27
The importance of storytelling in understanding and addressing political strife.
“You know, I think my takeaway, aside from the gunshots and the sound and the feeling that I had then, my takeaway is probably going to be what we've just been talking about, which is that it has become normalized.”
The Need for Connection
33:27 to 33:38
The discussion highlights the need for connection amidst chaos.
“that you can get when you yourself experience and you're going through it with other people, telling the stories, telling the story of Saturday night, talking about the issues.”
A Lighthearted Closing
33:38 to 34:30
A playful banter to lighten the serious topics discussed.
“So, Paul, we understand that on Saturday night that your phone ran out of battery and that it was very problematic for you.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Katie Simpson:Who's your favorite writer of all time? And if you could sit down and have dinner with them, what would you ask? It might be tough to get a dinner date, but I can try to give you the next best thing. I'm Matea Roach. On my podcast Bookends, I sit down for honest conversations with some of today's literary stars. People like Zadie Smith, Ken Follett, R.F. Kwong, and Louise Penny. Whether you love books or just want a new perspective on your everyday, check out Bookends with Mateo Roach wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast.
0:59Willy Lowry:We don't even know what's happening here. The room now is on a kind of, I mean, it's on lockdown. All we heard, we were sitting over here. You see it just over my shoulder, sort of that table over there. And just as the thing was getting underway, like, pop, pop, pop, pop, gunshots. and everybody hit the floor having no idea what was going on. At first, I thought it was some sort of play act thing, a staged, macabre kind of joke. And then the Secret Service ran, and all the cabinet ministers who were here got ushered out, hands on shoulders, marched out by the Secret Service. I looked up at the front table.
1:42Willy Lowry:Trump was long gone. And this room full of journalists and politicians, people now standing around wondering what happened and what's going to happen next.
2:01Paul Hunter:It's been a few days now, Paul, but how are you?
2:07Willy Lowry:I'm OK. I mean, thanks for asking. It's funny how that draws you back in at the moment. I mean, it was a messed up night, but I'm okay. Thanks. I'm super, super, super glad that you are, obviously.
2:24Katie Simpson:But, you know, being so close to such a harrowing event, even though as a journalist, you've spent a lifetime covering them, it's got to be a bit of a different experience. It was.
2:37Willy Lowry:I can't stop talking about it, though. So this is the right place.
2:40Paul Hunter:And we're going to hear more about that, Paul. It's been a very intense few days for you, for Washington, for the Bureau. And we are recording this episode early Tuesday afternoon, less than three days since the shooting at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
2:54Katie Simpson:We know more now about the alleged shooter and some of the lead up to the shooting.
3:00Willy Lowry:And look, I'm still kind of jacked on adrenaline from it all. So, I mean, I've had some time to digest it all, so I'm hoping for a good conversation here.
3:07Paul Hunter:Yeah. So on today's episode, we are asking what the third attempt, alleged attempt, to assassinate Donald Trump says about the state of U.S. politics. I'm Katie Simpson.
3:17Katie Simpson:I'm Paul Hunter. And I'm Willie Lowry. And we're CBC's Washington Correspondents. You guessed it. Two blocks from the White House.
3:33Paul Hunter:So, Paul, as we said, it's been a couple of days now. Where are you in terms of processing what you lived through?
3:41Willy Lowry:I don't know. You know, I mean, in the last couple of days, I've been thinking about, like, why am I still thinking about this so much? You see a lot of stuff in this. I mean, in conflict zones and scary places. I think part of it is because this wasn't a war zone, right? It's in a room with the president. We're two kilometers from the White House that night. you go to a conflict zone where you expect to hear or experience these kinds of things you're kind of psyched for it here you are not I mean we were eating salad you know what I mean and I think part of the experience of that night of that moment it depended where you were in the room right if you're up near where the president was and the VIPs around the front there was a lot of chit chatter and the clinking of cutlery and what have you.
4:30Willy Lowry:And what we, what I later heard was they were up there thought somebody had dropped dishes or something like that. We were at the back. We had a great view, but we were at the back and we were near the, the only open doors to the whole thing. We were literally the closest table to it. And it's through these doors that the sound of gunshots came at this, you know, obviously nobody expected it. And all of a sudden out of the blue, like I was saying in the clip that we played at the top, it was just a pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, right? And it's that sound now when that gets replayed that takes me back to that moment.
5:03You know, I had an interesting chat with the amazing Marie Clodet, the producer with Radio
5:10Willy Lowry:Canada here. And she was at the table with me and a couple of other Radcan people. And she and I had a, I said to her on Monday, I said, how are you? You know, and we had this conversation and we decided that it depended what you were doing in the moment is is is how the the degree to which you processed it now marie was under the table and there was a young woman there who was i think the daughter of another person at the table we didn't know and the woman was quite distraught and so marie was comforting her and so when marie hears the sound of gunshots now being replayed she goes back to that moment comforting a young woman i wasn't doing that i was hiding i had i I was away from the table.
5:50Willy Lowry:I couldn't fit under the table. So I was behind this concrete pillar. And all I'm thinking about is the shots and what's going to happen next. And so now when I hear the replay of the bullets of the gunfire, I go to the, I mean, my hair is standing up on end even now because you're like, what is going to happen is I can't believe it's hard to talk about. But when you talk about it, you go back into that moment in this, the absurdity of being in a room with the president in Washington, D.C., and hearing this. I wasn't kidding in the clip when I said I thought it was a joke, like a skit or some sort of bad taste skit to open the entertainment part.
6:28Willy Lowry:But then, no, no, no, I've heard enough gunshots. This is gunshots. And we were right by the doors where this where the sound was coming out.
6:35Paul Hunter:I don't mean to sound extreme. And if this question is a bit too extreme, but as you're standing there behind that pillar, did you did you have a moment where the thought flashed before your your sort of mind like this could be it?
6:45Willy Lowry:Yes, that's all I'm thinking. That's all I'm thinking. Like once you get past that initial, what's going on here? It's like, oh, it's gunfire, right? And here's what you don't know. Look, my hands are shaking. You don't know if it's one shooter or a bunch of them. And if it's a bunch of them, are they all going to come through that door now? And we're right there, right? And you don't know, if that one got close, are there others in the room with guns who are now about to pull these out? Like if there's been a security breach, how big of a breach is it? You don't know the end of the movie at this point.
7:21Willy Lowry:Are we in the line of fire? Are we about to get shot is what I'm thinking. We report on these things. We report on mass shootings. We report on assassination attempts in other circumstances. And now it's such a – I know what people talk about now when they're reliving these things. It's crazy.
7:38Katie Simpson:And, you know, you said we don't know the end of the movie. Obviously, in the instance, we at least know the end of this chapter for now. But, of course, it could have turned out very, very different.
7:49Willy Lowry:And that's what I think when – back to the question, you know, processing this or not, right? At that moment that I get taken back to when you hear the gunshots because we were so close to it. So loud. It was so loud.
8:05Willy Lowry:you don't you know all you i'm gonna die as corny as it sounds i'm not trying to get all you know pop psychology on it but it's like that's what you were thinking and that's what i go back to so then then what happened was to finish the chronology of it all that all seems like you know that was an eternity or was it five seconds you know a little bit of time passed and then the doors were all closed. I look up, Trump's gone. And you slowly stand up, you're looking around, and then you just see the streams of secret service coming in from all sides. And they're going to the front tables, right where the cabinet secretaries are.
8:41Willy Lowry:I think in the heat of the moment, I called them cabinet ministers there on the clip that we played. And because we're right by the main doors and right up at the aisle down the middle of the thing, they all get marched past us. And there goes Kash Patel. There goes Pete Hegseth. There goes. And we're just watching the rest of this play out like it's a surreal Hollywood movie. You know, it was it was hard to believe even as it was happening. And even as your hands were still shaking, you know, chairs are being knocked over, dishes broken, all that kind of stuff. It was. I don't know. I'm still as you relive it, you you again, you get back in that moment and it's it's hard.
9:20Katie Simpson:Was the presence of those Secret Service agents and law enforcement streaming in heavily clad in really military getup? Was that soothing? Was that comforting? Or was that like, oh, my goodness, I have to be careful what I do here?
9:34Willy Lowry:No, I don't know. No, that's a good question. No. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you're just kind of standing there. It's just all playing out in front of you, right? And then as they go by, you think, now I've got to do my job.
9:45Katie Simpson:Yeah.
9:45Willy Lowry:Right? And I've got to call the desk in Toronto and start telling. And but you can't get a call out. It's like call failed, call failed, call failed, hook up to WhatsApp. And then you get into the zone of being a reporter. And I think that gets you past worrying about, you know, tactical gear in front of you and things like that. And finally, it's like I can't try WhatsApp. You hook up to the hotel Wi-Fi. I can get out on WhatsApp. I can call the desk in Toronto. They can put me on the air. And pretty soon I was talking live on News Network describing what little we knew. I mean, at that time, at that moment, we start to hear the shooter was dead.
10:19Willy Lowry:Right. And it turned out not to be true, of course, but because we were in lockdown, even though it had just happened to us in a sense with the sound, we didn't know what was going on outside the door. It was in the hallway out there. So it then became complicated journalistically. But then you just kick into muscle memory and you just describe what you're seeing and what you've experienced and stuff like that. And I think that helped focus me up after having gone through all that. But man, it was something else, I'm telling you.
10:49Paul Hunter:Are you able to sleep yet?
10:52Willy Lowry:4 a.m. each night since I've been waking up. And again, it sounds so corny, right? But I guess it's all the way you do process these things. And I think about the gunshots and you think about what could have, you know, someone got that close. I don't know how it played out, but if the guy had dodged one way and he wasn't tackled, could he have come in? Would he have started shooting the room? This is how it happened. You know, I have this thing that I talk about with young journalists sometimes when you're being sent into a conflict zone that you kind of step on what I've come to call the conveyor belt of fate.
11:22Willy Lowry:And once you step on it, you're just going to be carried forward and whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And you can't get off until the end of the assignment. So think hard before you say yes to a complicated assignment. Right. So here I felt a little bit on this conveyor belt of fate. I by landing in the sorry, my hair's all standing up again. But by landing myself in that room, eating salad, as it was at the time, I'm on this conveyor belt of fate that really kicked in with those gunshots. And and then it ended.
11:52Paul Hunter:I hate the conveyor belt of fate. I hate that. No, but it's right. No, you're right. You're right. That's what we do.
11:59Katie Simpson:It's what we do. But, you know, he alluded to it. It's so different when you make the decision to get on the plane to go cover a war. Because you're expecting it. Because you're expecting it. And you've got often days, if not weeks of time to mentally prepare yourself. And literally, it's going to sound corny, but say goodbye to the people that you love in person. When you're totally relaxed in literally the most secure room theoretically in the world, you don't have any of that time to process and to prepare.
12:31Willy Lowry:This was my second dinner that I've gone to, White House Correspondents' Center. The fun of these things is going around taking pictures of all the people, the celebrities and the big shot politicians and stuff. And, you know, the big American networks have these parties that you can try to beforehand, that you can crash. And they're just kind of wacky, right? And that's the kind of mood you're in. This one was a bit different because of the presence of Trump and the complicated stuff with his presence. And, you know, all the talk in the pre-parties was, what's he going to say? Is he going to slam journalists?
13:01Willy Lowry:Are we going to see actual news here? And again, this was all part of the frame of mind you were in when pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And again, this can't, but it is.
13:15Paul Hunter:In the days since the shooting, we've started to learn more about the suspect, the California man who was taken into custody, who was stopped, arrested, stopped by authorities.
13:26Willy Lowry:They did their job shortly after. At the end, they got him. He didn't get into the room.
Read the full transcript
13:30Paul Hunter:No, and that is what the Trump administration keeps saying. This was a security success because if, you know, they allege that was the goal, to get in there. He had a number of targets he wanted to go after Trump administration officials, and they stopped him from getting close. He was actually a floor above. I don't know if that was very clear in the immediate aftermath that he ran past that security checkpoint, and it's actually one floor above. There's a set of stairs. Very close, though, I'm going to say.
13:59Willy Lowry:It's not a long distance run at that point. And hence the sound of the...
14:03Paul Hunter:Right there, right there. In terms of what we know so far, he's now facing three charges, including there's two gun charges and then there's one count of attempting to assassinate Donald Trump. His name is Cole Thomas Allen. He had been a teacher, a tutor, a mechanical engineer from California, extremely well-educated, had expressed frustration with the Trump administration for quite some time. And we know that allegedly, according to authorities, in the minutes before he's tried to storm the ballroom, he sent some disturbed writings to family members and family members then called police. And, Paul, we've been able to see what authorities have sort of leaked to a number of American media outlets.
14:50Paul Hunter:They describe it as a manifesto. You know, what's in that manifesto?
14:56Willy Lowry:Well, when I read it, the first thing I thought was he seems like a normal guy, except for some of the messaging that he was doing. It's not one big blorge that you see sometimes in these things of words. It's like neatly written paragraphs, and it seems like something written by somebody who is not about to go and try and kill the president, despite the content of the words. The part that stood out for me was the administration is full of pedophiles and rapists. You know, he didn't say Epstein, but it seems to be a clear reference to that. And he's apologizing to his family. I'm sorry you're going to get, you know.
15:34Willy Lowry:It seemed like he thought he was going to die.
15:36Paul Hunter:I know. That sounded like.
15:38Willy Lowry:Well, it's surprising.
15:39Paul Hunter:It's a suicide mission to do something like that.
15:41Katie Simpson:These things don't usually end the way they end. They ended. With him alive. With him alive. Yeah, I agree.
15:49Paul Hunter:You mentioned that line, Paul, the line that is getting the most attention. It says, quote, I am no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes. Trump was asked about that part of the manifesto during an interview that aired on 60 Minutes on Sunday night. And it just enraged Trump. What's your reaction?
16:11Katie Simpson:Well, I was waiting for you to read that because I knew you would because you're you're you're horrible people, horrible people. Yeah, he did write that. I'm not a rapist. I didn't rape anybody.
16:22Paul Hunter:I'm not a pedophile. Do you think he was referring to you?
16:25Katie Simpson:Excuse me. I'm not a pedophile. You read that crap?
16:28Paul Hunter:He went on to attack Nora O'Donnell. He called her a disgrace.
16:33Katie Simpson:You should be ashamed of yourself reading that because I'm not any of those things. Mr. President, these are the gunman's words. Excuse me. You shouldn't be reading that on 60 Minutes. You're a disgrace. But go ahead. Let's finish the interview.
16:47Paul Hunter:The other thing that he wrote in the manifesto that I think... And he sort of returned to the rhetoric that we are now familiar with when it comes to Donald Trump, when he's in a situation where he's getting a question he doesn't like. When you take a step back from Saturday, the event on Saturday night is supposed to be a celebration of free speech, the First Amendment in the United States, and journalism, and the importance of journalism when it comes to protecting free speech in America. Paul, what do you make of Donald Trump launching into this attack in this moment, you know, less than 24 hours after he's supposed to sort of be in that space?
17:29Willy Lowry:Sorry, less than 24 hours after he went into the White House briefing room to talk about how this has brought everybody together. And didn't you journalists do well and do a good job and a nice job reporting on this and the Democrats as well? And everybody came together under one in one moment. And then 24 hours later, it's the other Donald Trump that we've seen so many times. I mean, what do you make of that? I mean, I don't know who is. What's he really saying at any time? is part of the question that gets raised there. When it's to his advantage, arguably, to say we're all in this together, when it's not to his advantage to say you're horrible as journalists broadly, and not to mention the White House then the next day saying that the media and Democrats are part of the problem with the heated rhetoric that leads to the violence, etc., etc., etc.
18:19Willy Lowry:It just goes round and round and round, and I don't know what to make of it.
18:22Katie Simpson:We are in this kind of echo chamber where each side is blaming the other and has blamed each other repeatedly for this escalation of rhetoric. And yet neither seems capable of acknowledging that they're both guilty of, you know, ratcheting up the words.
18:43Willy Lowry:And there was a push not to go to this thing, right? A lot of journalists chose not to go. There's no right or wrong, but it was there was an open letter, right? And the suggestion in it was this normalizes him. Right. And that's what I say. That was the talk beforehand was what's he going to say? And even Trump hinted that he was going to say, well, it was famously Caroline Levitt said that some shots would be fired. Yeah, she was making a joke during the red carpet beforehand. The press secretary.
19:11Katie Simpson:This speech tonight will be classic Donald J. Trump. It'll be funny. It'll be entertaining. There will be some shots fired tonight. So everyone should tune in. It's going to be really great.
19:23Paul Hunter:You know, there was an opportunity to go because we got two tickets for CBC English language, two tickets for French. And you were like, I'm going to go. I want to go attend to this. I was like, I'm going to let someone else go, whoever wants to go. And like I didn't, you know, push to get a ticket because we could have had it. And it's weird. So it's not I've been feeling a certain kind of way about events like this. It's not a Trump thing. It's not an American thing. It's that, you know, Canada has a version of this as well. and it's like I my instinct is wrong this is a work function this is not like yeah there are cool things that go on you're like oh my goodness there's a celebrity oh my goodness usually there's a comedian or there's something whatever that's the fun of it but it's a work function don't get me wrong you know when you I've never attended a White House correspondence dinner I was supposed to go a couple years ago you've been to the hill
20:12Willy Lowry:a parliamentary
20:13Paul Hunter:I hosted a parliamentary one by the way journalists are not comedians we are not funny it was awful well it wasn't awful like we were okay but like it like Like, never again. Never again. Any kind of event like this doesn't have to be White House Correspondents Center. But when you're going to be in a room where you know there are going to be newsmakers and their press team, in my clutch purse, I don't know about you two with your clutch purses, I put as many business cards as I can. Stack of business cards. And just work the room.
20:39Willy Lowry:I talk about the fun you have, but no, you're working the room.
20:41Katie Simpson:No, you're working the room. And it's important for CBC to be in that room scene.
20:45Paul Hunter:Make eye contact with press secretaries. You're working the room, but it's also a moment of tools down. And I just feel like we're in a difficult moment where can we have a tools down moment where we see each other as humans? I don't know. We should. We've been doing this for decades. We should be able to have. But it raises to me, well, do we look too cozy? And like it's a weird perception thing. I have a bunch of complicated feelings about it that are I'm wrong. I know that I'm wrong because I should have gone because you work a room.
21:14Katie Simpson:I would just I would just argue that not because I wanted you to be subjected to danger, but Canadians and the CBC could not have been better served by having you at the dinner than, you know, any of our other great colleagues. You were the perfect person to be there. And thank goodness you were, you know, speak about it here, but speak about it also in the immediate aftermath.
21:36Willy Lowry:I would say it's also a reminder. There's a reason there's a White House pool that follows the president around every single step the president takes outside the White House grounds.
21:53Katie Simpson:Who's your favorite writer of all time? And if you could sit down and have dinner with them, what would you ask? It might be tough to get a dinner date, but I can try to give you the next best thing. I'm Matea Roach. On my podcast, Bookends, I sit down for honest conversations with some of today's literary stars. People like Zadie Smith, Ken Follett, R.F. Kuang, and Louise Penny. Whether you love books or just want a new perspective on your everyday, check out Bookends with Mateo Roach wherever you get your podcasts. We actually got a question from a listener named Jane Witherspoon in Toronto that's kind of along the same lines.
22:32Katie Simpson:She asked, why did Trump decide to come to this year's dinner when he, again, had spurned it on previous occasions? I actually haven't quite figured it out.
22:40Paul Hunter:Because it was America 250. It was it was it was the big, you know, it's now, you know, that I am the least smart of the. No, he had said he I think he'd posted on True Social when he decided to accept the invitation that he was going to go, that it was because it's the 250th anniversary of of America, America 250. And so as part of that, he would go. And that, again, made some controversy because Donald Trump's appearance and attendance even before he was president, there have been moments that have shaped history.
23:12Willy Lowry:I mean, in fact, it was the White House Correspondents' Dinner where Trump was at and Obama was president. And Obama just like mocked Trump mercilessly with the video and the jokes. Donald Trump is here tonight. Now, I know that he's taken some flack lately, but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the Donald. And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter. Like, did we fake the moon landing? and then the camera kept sort of showing trump just sitting there stoically just like listening like not laughing along and who knows but people say that was like like the og moment where he decided no i'm gonna i'm gonna run for president it's almost like he could see the future in his face at that point and the people say that's what sparked him to run in the first place i mean he thought about it but it was this is the stuff that happens at these dinners uh now what happened at
24:19Paul Hunter:the White House Correspondents Dinner, it has also changed a conversation, a very controversial and politically charged conversation about Donald Trump's plans to build a ballroom at the White House. He's using what happened to justify construction. And some of his allies in Congress, including Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, are now demanding$400 million taxpayer dollars to be used for construction of the ballroom.
24:44Katie Simpson:The thing is, the president will never be confined strictly to the White House grounds. He will always or she will always go out and travel. So I think it's a bit of a moot point.
24:56Willy Lowry:I think it underlines that there's a means to an end here. Take advantage of it in the moment. Look, we can say this is, we can underline this is national security. So now we can get the ballroom done.
25:11Willy Lowry:I'm trying not to say the word conspiracy theories because Katie's going to lose her mind if I do. I love it. I love it when we lose our minds. It is amazing how quickly that came up and how convenient it seemed to further the ballroom project. It just – not to mention Trump at a complicated time in terms of popularity. But it's funny how these things work. And is it any wonder, not to segue from ballroom to conspiracy theories, but they are sort of tied up in a kind of way. And I haven't even mentioned guns because nobody's talking about guns. People are talking about the ballroom and other aspects of this.
25:44Willy Lowry:It's just the whole thing is a weird.
25:48Katie Simpson:It is amazing. There hasn't been a I haven't heard anyone mention, you know, a need to limit guns.
25:54Paul Hunter:No, I need to limit guns or perhaps examine mental health support for people who are in mental health crisis, those kinds of things. I've seen a number of memes that are sort of like, so is the Trump administration going to pledge to pay for ballrooms at every single school in America? Because is that the solution to what the problem is right here? Build higher walls.
26:12Katie Simpson:I mean, is he going to hold every rally that he, you know, in that ballroom, right?
26:17Willy Lowry:But since Butler, he's been holding every rally behind bulletproof glass. I mean, but then again, it gets back to how big should the security perimeter be? How high should the wall be? How much, you know, bulletproof glass? It's where does it end if you don't attack, if you don't go after the other issues, mental health, which they do talk about a lot, but also gun control, which they never talk about.
26:39Katie Simpson:And, you know, obviously there is a long history of presidential assassination attempts in this country. In fact, one happened in the very same hotel just outside the Washington Hilton in 1981, of course, against Ronald Reagan. He was actually struck in that incident as well as, I believe, three other people.
26:59Willy Lowry:James Brady among them. Of course. Who, after whom the blue briefing room is named as a result of that.
27:06Katie Simpson:Exactly. And I don't know if you could talk – it hurts, of course, some of your reporting in the immediate aftermath. Talk to me about some of the other people in that dinner who had also been touched by the violence.
27:18Willy Lowry:This speaks to the gun issue and the state of politics and violence in politics all at the same time. It's not – it's – you know, just before we sat down for dinner, there's RFK Jr. You know, I'll take a picture of that. Like, look, they're all here, right? Who was 14 years old in 1968 when his dad was shot and killed, right? And like, what's he thinking? You ask me what I'm thinking. How am I processing this? There he is in the room where he would have been a target, his uncle, right?
27:51Paul Hunter:Yeah.
27:52Willy Lowry:John F. Kennedy. So I was telling you how everybody was marched, a lot of them anyway, were marched out past where our table was as we're standing there, jaws on the floor still. And there goes Steve Scalise. the Republican House majority leader, who in 2017, I think I did that story, was shot at a congressional baseball game. And he's limping out because he's got a permanent limp because of that shooting. And this gets into the whole nonsensicalness of that night, right? Your dad was shot and killed. Your uncle was shot and killed. You were shot and wounded, so you're limping out. And here we are in the hotel where Reagan was shot and James Brady was shot.
28:34Willy Lowry:There's a plaque out front. When we left at the end of the night, when they finally took the lockdown off, go up the escalator, you walk out the front doors, and there was this wall of police cars and ambulances and lights flashing, red, white, and blue, blah, blah, blah, and police ushering you off. Go out this way, but you've got to walk that way. And you walk down past the spot where Reagan was shot in 1981. There's a little plaque on the hotel, and here we are. To me, I got shivers again talking about that. It summed up the whole night just like that. And summed up the state of violence in the political world in this country.
29:10Willy Lowry:You know, we haven't even mentioned the Gabby Giffords, you know, the attack on Josh Shapiro's residence in Pennsylvania, Nancy Pelosi's husband.
29:20Katie Simpson:We're unquestionably in a moment of increased political violence in this country. You know, you named the headliners, but there's also just last year in Minnesota, those two, the House Speaker of Minnesota was shot and killed along with her husband. These, of course, Charlie Kirk, like these attacks are on the left. They're on the right. January 6th. January 6th, of course. But here's the thing. If you look at the long arc of American history, this is not a unique period. There have always been decades in some cases of serious political tension, of serious political violence. Of course, this is a country that was founded by revolution that experienced a brutal, brutal civil war.
30:04Katie Simpson:Four, you know, Trump always calls the presidency a dangerous job. And he's right. Four presidents have been assassinated. And so this is, I think, part of the fabric, whether one likes it or not, of this country.
30:20Paul Hunter:It's a reminder that navigating violence and in this modern moment, navigating gun violence is a core element of the American experience. And there's no one has been able to muster enough political will to actually take meaningful steps to change it because we have the same conversation over and over and over, or we don't even have the conversation. That seems to be where we are now in light of the fact that the answer right now seems to be, you know, hardened security ballroom per. By the way, I think we should point out that the White House Correspondents Association dinner, it's a private event that's held at a private location.
31:01Paul Hunter:Do you think the White House is going to want to hold that? I don't think so. And I don't think the White House, I don't think the White House Correspondents Association.
31:08Katie Simpson:I would think there would be ethical questions, right? Because this is the White House Correspondents Association's dinner. Would there be ethical questions if it was held in the White House?
31:17Willy Lowry:And I would say, I mean, just on the other point you were making there, Katie, and both of you really, I mean, I think a lot of the people around the world look at the United States and they shake their head. Like, what is going on? Like, why? But it has been going on for almost since the beginning of the country.
31:33Paul Hunter:So as we sort of wrap up this conversation, you know, Paul, it's only been a few days, but do you have a sense of what you think might you might take away from this and how how it's affected you and how it might affect how you, you know, cover things going forward?
31:56Willy Lowry:I don't know, is the truth. You know, I think my takeaway, aside from the gunshots and the sound and the feeling that I had then, my takeaway is probably going to be what we've just been talking about, which is that it has become normalized. And this was a reminder that it can happen anywhere, at any time, no matter who's in the room, including the president.
32:22Paul Hunter:That's you, Paul Hunter, as the reporter. You, Paul Hunter, as the human. Are you going to do something to take a breath, to take a minute away? Are you going to – is there anything that you want to do to have a minute?
32:33Willy Lowry:Oh, it's – I'm all good, Kate. I mean that. And thank you for asking again. But it's – you see a lot of strife to go back on this in this world, in this job.
32:46Paul Hunter:Yeah.
32:46Willy Lowry:And what I get out of this job when I am in places where there is strife and there is misery and there is awful stuff is by cornball alert here. But by telling the stories to people who will learn about this planet and maybe take action to help and to do things to make things better. As sort of blue skyish as that sounds, that's the aim. And that, to me, whether you're in Haiti after an earthquake or in some awful conflict zone where people are in desperate need, telling the stories of that, as we have here today, I think is the greatest sort of medicine that you can get when you yourself experience and you're going through it with other people, telling the stories, telling the story of Saturday night, talking about the issues.
33:36Willy Lowry:I think that helps all of us.
33:37Katie Simpson:Well, there's one more thing that we were hoping you were going to take away. Clearly, you did not. But don't worry. Katie and I have your back. We have a plan for you.
33:45Paul Hunter:So, Paul, we understand that on Saturday night that your phone ran out of battery and that it was very problematic for you. We understand. So, so.
33:56Katie Simpson:Just so you know, people, I texted him immediately. He did not text me back. There you go. A power pack. There you go.
34:02Paul Hunter:You can carry that. You can probably, like, if you need a purse, that'll fit in. I can lend you one.
34:06Katie Simpson:I want my text responded within five minutes.
34:08Paul Hunter:I want that back. You have to give that back to me. That's my favorite.
34:10Willy Lowry:I'm not letting go of this.
34:12Paul Hunter:There we go. You have to carry one of those from now on. It is true.
34:14Willy Lowry:By the time the shooting happened, my battery was in the red, and I was cursing myself as I'm trying to call the desk to do some reporting. And at least I got on a couple of times before it went fully dark. So anyway, thank you. Thank you for thinking. All right.
34:28Paul Hunter:All right. We're all going to take a deep breath, maybe drink a beer. That sounds good. We'll go from there. So thank you. We want to thank everyone who is listening. And if you are listening to this and have a question for us or have some feedback about what you're hearing, you can send us an email to WashingtonPod. That is all one word. WashingtonPod at CBC.ca. That's WashingtonPod at CBC.ca.
34:54Willy Lowry:Or leave a comment for us on Spotify. And don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app.
34:59Paul Hunter:Paul, Willie, I hope we can have an uplifting conversation next time.
35:05Willy Lowry:Me too. Thanks, guys. Thanks, both of you.
From the publisher
It’s been less than three days since shots rang out at the White House correspondents’ dinner. Our own Washington correspondent Paul Hunter was there. Today on Two Blocks from the White House, he shares new details about the scene. Fellow correspondents Katie Simpson and Willy Lowry bring us the latest on the suspect. As the political fallout continues, we ask what a third alleged attempt to assassinate Donald Trump says about the state of America.
