2025 Year in Review | Fine Wine Market | Bonus Episode

0:03Welcome to a special episode of Uncorked, the Cultwines podcast. we are reviewing 2025 a year in review the wine market what happened um it is the beginning of january it's the start of a new year we enter 2026 with a huge amount of optimism um but we we have a big job to do we need to review what happened in 2025 i'm very fortunate to be joined by one of our first i suppose podcast guests but was a co-host on the original episode one uh joe allum is uh in the UK and he's joining me in London to be on this very special episode of Uncork Podcast. Great to have you again, Joe. Thanks, Tom. Good to be back.

0:43Got me back on after one episode and then a bit of a hiatus for another seven, but I'll be invited back, which is good. Yeah, I mean, luckily you're only in the UK once a year, so we only have to extend this invitation once. And I think that's about what our listeners can put up with on a regular basis. But let's see, I don't know, maybe you can get yourself back in the mixer. but look I mean it's a very serious topic today we needed someone who had the right pedigree to to come in and really get into the data go through the spreadsheets and kind of pull out the the insights and the interesting bits of information that our listeners are going to be dying to hear about before we get started and looking at the data side of things and obviously we have got a lot of data to bring you what were your general thoughts about 2025 I mean what's your reflections now that we are you know in the beginning of 2026 2025 is in the bank yeah what is what's your lasting memories of the year from a wine market perspective look i think it was a very difficult year following on from from 2024 i think there's no hiding from the fact that you know 2025 certainly for the first three quarters of the year which we'll probably come on to a bit later on was really challenging because you know the conditions the difficult conditions persisted that being said I think that, you know, I think the towards the end of the year, what we hoped would happen was that the market will start to turn the corner and absolutely did.

2:08And now it's really starting to build momentum. And I think that, you know, probably a time for a lot of reflection throughout 2025, people really aren't trying to understand what it is they want to buy, how they want to buy, you know, take taking some time to really take stock of, how they want to approach their portfolio, how they want to approach their drinking collection. And I think that's really now set the platform for almost like a new cycle, a new period, where I think we're going to see some new trends develop. And I think we're already starting to see the momentum. Are we seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, Joe?

2:44We're absolutely seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. That's what people want to hear at home, I think. Yeah. You know, the headline indices have started to rise in value, but actually the more important thing is under the under the bonnet the trading data the volume of trades the liquidity is all starting to tick up yeah everything everything is looking a lot more positive so i think certainly for you and i that's what we want to be yeah for every every probably everyone listening to this podcast that's who we want to be yeah um and yeah look long may it continue but i think that we can confidently sit here and say that you know sentiment has actually shifted now yeah and we're moving in the right direction which is great so my uh my wife at home she likes to play a little game um not that type of game get your head out of the gutter um when we go on holidays we go to other people's weddings um when we just spend time at home over the christmas period she normally asks me a very specific question at the end of it she says what is your peak or your pit uh of a particular trip so my question is what was your peak and what was your pit of 2025 in terms of the wine market um so look i think the the peak came towards the end you know yeah absolutely um from a from a a wine market investment perspective i think seeing some of the names that we know we're about to increase some of the bigger names starting to increase is really really encouraging looking looking at some of the data and seeing that salon 2002 is starting to trade up looking at the data and seeing that you know some of the leading Spoiler alert.

4:19Leading Bordeaux names are starting to trade up. You know, I think for me, a massive sense of relief, to be honest with you, after a long period of time knowing that those wines are starting to trade up. Pitt. Christ, Pitt. Yeah, I think some of the on-premise pricing was a bit of a pit for me. You know, there was a lot of excitement for that. We were really waiting for it. And I think there was an opportunity to actually kickstart the market recovery earlier. And it was just a bit of a damp squirt, wasn't it? A lot of that. And I thought that was really disappointing. So I probably categorized some of those bigger names coming out too expensive as a bit of a low point.

5:02No, it was good ones. I think maybe another, well, the one I was thinking about in terms of for a pit was probably the Trump tariffs earlier in the year. So I felt like, and maybe the data will show us a little bit when we get into it, but I felt like 2025 for me actually didn't start too badly. I felt like we were kind of in a similar position this time last year, the end of 24 coming into the new year. Obviously you start every new year with a little bit of optimism. And January was actually pretty good. February, we started, I mean, obviously you're based in Asia, but we certainly started to see the Asia market get back into the swing of things, especially on the trade side.

5:33And it felt like there was a little bit of trading coming back in, you know, prices were starting to get supported again. And it felt like the air in the balloon was just completely let out. between kind of March and April and May when we had that complete uncertainty around the whole tariffs. And it's amazing to think that was only sort of seven, eight months ago, like how much that time that took up and focus. And it was almost like everyone took their chips off the table for a period of time. It was almost kind of that the stasis it created. I know it kind of dovetailed into that kind of on-premise period of time as well, which kind of then almost probably made it worse because you kind of came off the back of the whole uncertainty around tariffs into an on-premise campaign that kind of fell a little bit flat.

6:09It was kind of like a bit of a death by a thousand cuts. but that was probably the pit of the year. My peak, you didn't ask for it, but I'll give it to you anyway. My peak of the year was some of the auction results, I think, towards the end of the year. In particular, we saw some very old, LaTache sold at a record price at auction. I think it was over 300 ,000 it sold for one single bottle. I think in terms of how much impact does that have on the actual everyday wine market, obviously it doesn't have a huge impact you don't see these types of artifacts if we can call it that um come into you know come onto the market very often but i think what it showed is that at the very top of the fine wine market you know there is still appetite there and i think when you go through such a a long period of sort of you know negative market cycle you kind of you can kind of lose a little bit of that sort of belief and confidence um in the market and i think something that i mentioned to you um you know i'm I'm part of a few different kind of wine WhatsApp groups.

7:09And I think anecdotally, like for me, towards the end of the year, it felt like everyone was back out drinking wine again. And again, I didn't feel like I'd seen a lot of that for a while. And, you know, I was fortunate to go a couple of tastings and people opening some really great bottles. But it felt, again, like second to last part of the year. It suddenly felt like there was a bit more renewed enthusiasm, people going to auctions again. Like I said, that LaTache price maybe being the headline grabber. But on top of that, just anecdotally, people wanting to organize a Jaya tasting, people that wanted to organize a Loire Dovinet tasting, people actually opening these bottles again.

7:42Again, I mentioned between me and you chatting on WhatsApp and other kind of messaging services, kind of going, I haven't seen that for a while. And I think that was, in a way, that was more of a peak for me because I feel like when you do look at the data and you look at the market, yes, you're always looking at after the event. yeah you know if you look at old prices or trades that the events already happened so we're kind of reporting on things that have already happened yeah but i'm always equally interested and intrigued by the leading indicators yeah and for me that's always been a leading indicator you want to see people opening these bottles you want to see these people coming back into the auction you want to see wines bid up you want to see uh on social media certain labels being shown and you know yes it's maybe got a little bit of that kind of egotistical kind of showing off aspect to it but in a way that it for us especially in the fine wine market it does tend to suggest you're getting into a healthier place that people are opening these bottles they're emptying their cellars and that results in one or two things it means they're going to start replenishing um and and maybe other people that haven't tasted those particular wines or labels might be starting to look for them or seeking them out from from the market so yeah that was kind of my p which i think probably aligns a little bit with you which is kind of that last quarter of the year kind of gave us a lot of kind of hope and optimism i think that's a really good point because you know look the last few years we know how popular the top wines are and they have been for a really long time yeah and you know there's been somewhat of a hiatus of people going out and drinking them in the kind of volume they were doing you know pre-2022 and i think you and i knew that the the the demand and the passion for those wines hadn't gone anywhere yeah but the longer it goes on the kind of slightly more nervous you get from you know from the fact that you know is the market going to come back for this so absolutely to to to come in and and see people drinking those wines again is really encouraging for sure well look let's um let's give our listeners a little bit of background in terms of what we've actually done what we've compiled so um yeah since the end of the year we've put together some data we've got our computers in front of us which is not very uh uncork podcast um but you know i'm looking at a spreadsheet here with 50 000 rows in it um with wines and wines and vintages and data and a huge amount of information so sometimes you have to get into the weeds you have to get into the weeds but luckily for you listening at home you don't have to get into the weeds we'll we'll surface um our fines from the deep for you is that a good anecdote i'm not sure um but yeah no so we looked at the data and what we're looking at is okay how's how's the overall market fed what's been trading how how's that changed from this year to last year um whether that's volume or value we're also looking at from a regional perspective then we've gone into as i said that we've gone into the weeds a little bit we looked at what are the top traded wines of the year um so which which wines traded the most in 2025 of course we're looking at what the best performers were in terms of price performance um we're also looking at a couple of different categories so we came up with this idea of a velocity list uh where we sort of combined price appreciation with uh how much the wines have been trading uh we also came up with a market movers list which kind of focused a little bit more on the higher end of higher end of the spectrum in terms of more of the rarer collectible wines higher value wines and again looking at how much value of those wines traded in the market versus the previous year as well as the price change um as well as that you know we've looked at sort of the uh highest rises of the year so what was the first trade of the year versus the last trade of the year so where can we see that kind of watermark getting pushed up the most which will be interesting because i think it hopefully should paint a little bit of a picture of what me and joe talked about in terms of Q4 being probably the most positive period of the market for 2025.

11:16And finally, we're going to be looking at quarter-on-quarter performance. So just looking at Q3 into Q4, looking at what were the wines that were trading up in that last quarter of the year and what are the trends around that. And yeah, I mean, hopefully that will be interesting for people. And if it's not, we will be making it into reports. you can just download it and read it yourself if you don't listen to us talk about it um but uh yeah i mean hopefully um we obviously look to the data we've looked to the output and there's definitely some interesting trends to talk about and articulate to you um our listeners was there anything i missed no i think you're good comprehensive comprehensive yeah um that's it there we go and that's us and that's it tune in next time next year um so look top wines of 2025 I mean, might as well kick off with the top level stats.

12:03Good news and bad news? Bad news. Okay, look, overall performance. So tracking, I think there was over 9 ,902 wines traded in 2025 that also didn't trade it in 2024. So overall, if you look at the average price change of those 10 ,000 wines, it was a negative drop of 5.6 % over the year. But actually, if we look at some of the other stats, there's some more positive trends there. So in terms of the volume of wines traded, we're actually up 13.3%. So in 2024, we had 8 ,737. And this year, we're just shy of 10 ,000, which I think is interesting, right? And then if we look at kind of unique wines traded, that was up just a nudge at 2 ,524, up from 2 ,496.

12:51And finally, just how many transactions did we record in our database, our transactional database? Now, to give you a bit of context at home, you know, our data science and data engineering teams have a number of different ways of ingesting data. So we ingest data from public platform, public exchanges. We also ingest our own data on our own platform, Coltex, which is a marketplace and trading platform. We also ingest our own data from our B2B side of the business. And all of these sources of information are effectively used to create this database. So if we look at a total amount of transactions recorded and we use the same source in both 24 and 25, we actually saw trades increase by two and a half thousand.

13:30So this year we have 36 and a half thousand trades registered, which was up 7.2 percent. I think from my perspective, whilst we've seen the price overall in 25 come down 5.6 percent, which I think is in line with the overall market. I think the LiveX indices, I'm not sure what the exact finishing number was in terms of the LiveX 100. You might know better than I do for 2025. But certainly the broader kind of market indices that are well reported have obviously suggested that prices were down in 2025 overall from the start to the finish. But look, I mean, question for you, Joe. I think that any type of market, any type of asset class, you want to be seeing an increase in activity, right?

14:10yeah look i think the the issue over the last few years is that the liquidity has has come away from the market that has been the number one problem that the wine market has faced you know it's not a market that is you know flush with buyers in the best of time when the wine market is operating its full capacity that means that there's sufficient liquidity for the supply on the market to be taken off over time for prices to increase in value that's how the wine market works so unfortunately when you have a scenario where that liquidity that number of people participating in the market is impacted we have a scenario that we have for the last few years yeah now the the one of the one of the reasons why the last few years has been difficult is because really both sides of the coin have been impacted collectors who are less less wedded to what's necessarily happening in the macro environment they're buying the wines because they want to buy the wines they enjoy the wines they're less they're less kind of uh data driven almost they just it's much more objective buying um they've been impacted because you know things that you spend money spend money on that you don't need around the world have been impacted over the last few years luxury goods has represented the same thing interest rates going up asset classes other asset classes performing well have impacted those buyers that are more motivated by the investment side of the wine market so we've had a scenario where the both sides of those coins have been impacted so we've had you know oversupply in the market and and prices have fallen um so the fact that now in 2025 even though prices have fallen but we've seen larger participation i think is really encouraging and that's almost that's the early indicator we're now seeing the results of that coming through because in q4 as we'll come on to prices starting to rise starting to rise and that's because of the first part of the year more people are in the market buying wine more people are taking the the case off the bottom of the market allowing prices to increase so i think that's what's been reflected in in this data so yeah look you know we know that prices fell last year but you know a really encouraging sign that buyers are coming back in they were seeing that is the time to come in and start start you know taking mines off the market thing that is the price to start buying yeah obviously we'll come on to it and i think one of the things when we were looking at the data we wanted to capture is like if you do look at it it's a very kind of singular 12 month yardstick yeah generally we're going to see on average prices have obviously have obviously come down but i don't think that really captures the true picture that we try to articulate which is certainly a pickup in interest and pickup in demand and certainly a pickup in pricing over the last sort of three to four months that's why we have looked at sort of the momentum shift from start to the end of the year and the last last couple of quarters but if we do just look at a regional breakdown um in terms of the performance so as i said overall minus 5.6 percent so the worst performing sub-region if we look at all the wines from that region they're in our database and look at the average price change in 25 versus 24 is bordeaux minus 6.85 percent any surprise there um not for me i think you know it's the region with the most available the most supply the most estates that produce wines of investment grade quality yeah um it is the most kind of liquid region if you like yeah um and as a result i think it suffered it suffered probably the most with the fact that there's an oversupply on the market it's just a lot a lot of border around yeah which i guess we'll come on to and we get a bit more granular uh and i think that's one of the reasons one of the main reasons why it suffered suffered the most yeah um rhone valley was next at minus 6.8 percent um after that is the darling of the fine wine world burgundy at minus 5.7 percent um italy minus 5.2 um usa minus 4.9 champagne minus four and then effectively the best performing region in 2025 was the rest of the world at minus 2.3 is that kind of align with with what you saw in the market last year was any surprises there No, no, I think that aligns.

17:52Look, I think that there's not a huge difference between any of them. I think it's been, you know, there's really been, I'd say, for the want of better phrase, nowhere to hide for buyers during this period of time. So to see a kind of fairly uniform set of results in terms of the way that things have declined is logical because there wasn't the requisite buyers in the market. So all areas have suffered really. yeah um i think that the the the variance is going to be in the in the recovery actually i think yeah to my mind to my mind um but yeah no surprises really well look the first segment we're going to look at are the top traded wines in 2025 okay so a bit of context for those listening at home um we i mean to remove outlines remove a bit of noise from the data we only looked at wines that traded at least three times in 2024 and 2025 um of which there's 1535 wines that traded three times in both periods um i mean interestingly just looking at that segment only 285 of those wines recorded a higher price in 25 on average than 24 with 1250 wines trading at a lower price on average that kind of gives you a bit of an indication of the overall uh trend in the market in 2025 um but anyway we we we kind of um looked at the data and just ranked them uh one to ten uh in terms of the most traded wine so joe do you want to take us away and go through go through the list from number 10 yeah sure i mean um there are a couple of wines in here that you know i think everyone would expect they're big names people know people know they're going to be traded a lot but there are some some interesting themes so um a fair amount of champagne in the whole list actually it's number 10 actually four out of the 10 of champagne four out of 10 of champagne i mean look it's the highest production the wines are the highest production right um and the most they are the consumed in the most volume yeah globally of fine wines so not overly surprising um but still you know interesting nonetheless um number 10 is Tattinger Compte 2008 yeah 123 trades yeah um look I think 2008 champagne is actually a couple in the list there's three in the list actually best ever widely regarded as the best yeah best ever vintage yeah um champagne has had you know a little bit of a rocky time throughout the period and that's because it's coming off the fact coming off the back of a huge surge in prices between 2019 and 2022 and there's been a bit of correcting over that period of time but i think throughout the year um it's been apparent from our side that demand for champagne is still really robust yeah um i think that historically champagnes have increased gradually because there's a high supply in the market yeah you know you buy a champagne young you're really going to have to allow eight to ten years 12 years for that price to really get to a level where it makes it worthwhile to own and that's because the that's because the the volume is high we're talking about the grand mark champagne stomp perignon cristal tassenger etc um and all the time those wines are being traded but still you know really interesting to see that there's been a lot of training for these wines and actually um the prices are really starting to to to sort of solidify and and and and recover number nine is uh sasakaya 2018 yeah 126 traits um yeah look i think the one of the kind of most recognizable names in the market blue chip blue chip probably as blue chip as you get yeah you know really alongside the first growth blue label blue chip um liquid blue label blue chip uh next is a surprise the next one is a surprise for me yeah um i mean the price point's interesting right sub 400 pounds i mean it is interesting just looking at this list the top 10 there is one two three there's four wines here that trade well less than 50 well less than 50 pounds a bottle which is interesting in itself because i think everyone thinks about the investment correct collectible part of the market as being you know first growth bordeaux groncrie burgundy and that obviously goes without saying but clearly when you do look at like trading like how many how much how many wines trade a lot volume of trading in a market liquidity quite often it those wines don't appear on the list because there isn't hundreds and hundreds of cases of domain de la rome quantity plus at the price point that it trades at yeah there isn't necessarily that many buyers willing to pay those prices so yeah i mean give it away in terms of revealing uh number eight on the list chateau d 'esson 2016 yeah which you know looks incredible value great vintage for bordeaux chateau d 'esson is something that's had a lot of investment from the margapalachon third growth obviously now what little bit uh shy of what seven eight years bottle age yep um probably drinking pretty well right now 16s 16s we're always going to be drinking does that reflect the trend of last year's market like people looking for value the buyers are wearing the market absolutely and it goes back to my point around you know people spending less on things they don't need you know i think that that has been a real theme around the world and people looking for high quality wine to drink because it's not like they have they've lost interest in drinking wine maybe just pulling pulling the purse strings a little bit um and something like a nissan 2016 fits the bill because and there's another one that really stands out on that list that actually i think fits that category which which was surprising so we'll get to number five yeah the next two are pretty obvious they're leading names in Bordeaux.

23:27Ponte Canet 2019, 133 trades. Average price of 5.65 per 12, which looks to me... Is that the controversial one? No, not yet. No, the Ponte Canet... No. You think it's controversial? Isn't it the one that Neil Martin said tasted like a... Oh, he's tasting those. No, William Kelly. Was it 2020? Maybe it was 2020, I think. And so look, but I think 2019 Bordeaux, which is exceptional. I think the Ponte Takane 2019 was, for those that remember, were involved in the On Primeur campaign at the time, was the early release that year, really set the tone for a great On Primeur campaign, really high quality, and subsequently come down in price a lot during this kind of market correction.

24:09You know how you were talking about the 08 for Champagne? I think of like 19 being the equivalent of the 08 for Bordeaux. I agree. In terms of like really high quality, everything looks really good value, kind of ready to start drinking now. Obviously, there's tons on the market, so you see it trading quite a lot. but actually generally looking at quality, age, price point, there isn't how many 2019s you look at and everything, oh, that's overpriced. Yeah. You just don't, right, in terms of the scores it's got and the quality of vintage overall. I agree. I agree. You feel like inevitably that has to start ticking back in the right direction, right?

24:40Absolutely. Yeah, I think the 19s, you can actually say the same thing for Burgundy as well in terms of quality for both regions. Absolutely exceptional. um and then we've got mouton 16 you know these are the names you'd expect to see on this list the first grows from top vintages for more recent top vintages are the names that you would expect to see on this list so it is an interesting theme here that the most traded wines this year have been at the lower end of the of the price per bottle um and then the next one number five on the list is one that really surprises me and that's senia 2018 expensive on the list is what the Mouton right?

25:15Mouton. Yeah. Go on Senya. Senya 2018. Yeah. 149 trades. But I think we've highlighted this wine before. I think Arash highlighted it. It's come down in value quite a lot though right? Yeah. But that's interesting because it's not necessarily a really liquid wine. It's traded a lot. You know the top the top wines from Chile are historically wines that have been actively traded. Senya not necessarily as much as Almaviva. But I think it very much which is related to the price and quality and people looking for good wines to drink and available at a cheaper price. I think it's a hundred points on 98, 98, 99.

25:53It's that very upper end. It's one of the best, best senior vintages. I don't want to digress on the Ponte Cane thing, but I was right. It's the 19. So James Suckling gave it 99 points. Lisa Prorty Brown gave it 99 points. William Kelly gave it 93. And he said, tasted twice. It's a wine I find somewhat perplexing and a blind tasting. I might be more inclined to place it in Gigondas than Puyac. I'm far more dogmatic when it comes to what French call typicity, and stylistic diversity surely enriches every appellation. But by the same token, I'm not convinced that this is the most compelling aesthetic that a Cabernet-based blend from this part of Bordeaux can realise.

26:32Wow, scathing. I think that's when he got banned after that. But to be fair, Neil Martin tasted at the Southwold tasting, the famous blind tasting. So he did taste it blind, and he said... grainy tannins, mulberry and game, almost syrah-like in style. Mmm, interesting. So there's a little bit of synergy there between the two of them. But anyway, sorry, I'd lie to breath. Another vintage of Tattinger. Oh, sorry. Next is Cristal 2008. Similar story with the Tattinger 2008. But Cristal, again, one of the most traded wines in the market. It's crazy how much that wine trades. Yes. Just always. There's always a bid in the market for that wine.

27:09Yeah, there's always someone looking to pop a few bottles. And then Rioja Alta. 2011. Again, really good value, really high volume, traded a lot. And then finally, top spot, Dom Perignon 2008. Little surprise given the volume that's on the market and the reputable nature of the brand. What do you reckon the production is for Dom Perignon? In a good year, I think they make 5 million bottles. That's a lot, isn't that? That's a lot of wine. Does any other wine come close? so Lafitte will make Lafitte you know being quite a high production Bordeaux will make about 150 ,000 bottles yeah 200 ,000 bottles so I mean that gives you the scale of how much champagne is released onto the market and the volume of it the volume at which it's consumed and that's why you have to allow for a long period of time for these wines to develop and why that period between 19 and 2022 was so unusual in the spike in pricing I think the other thing with Dom Perignon is obviously just like you know pretty much since 2000, ever released a vintage every year as well.

28:13There's just like so much stock of it as well. But trades a lot and that was our number one traded wine for 2025. So yeah, well done Dom Perignon. Bravo. Bravo. Bravo indeed. Chapeau. Chapeau. Chapeau. Right. Top performing wines in 2025, not by trading value, but by price performance. So for this particular list, we've based it on a minimum of three trades in each period. these wines have recorded the largest average price increase year on year so we looked at minimum free trades what was the average price that wine trade that in 2024 looked at the trades in 25 what was the average price it traded for in 25 simple maths what was the percentage difference between the two um we're not going to go through the full list because there's the we've got a list of 20 on here as i said everything we're talking about here is going to be released in a report online so make sure you um follow the right path to download that i I don't know exactly where it'll be right this second, but it will be signposted as part of this blog, blog, part of this podcast.

29:12Podcast. So the top performing wines of 2025, minimum of three trades in each period. This is very simple. Which wines have gone up the most in value? There's 20 here. Maybe let's just pick out some interesting ones. Should we start with the top three at least? Because I feel like they should be given like, you know, gold, silver, bronze. Yep. Yep. So look, coming in, coming in the bronze medal is Jean Fayard Morgan from Beaujolais. 2020 vintage um so originally traded in in 2024 at 282 and has jumped to 369 in 2025 and that's across that's across three trades in 2025 so i wouldn't say it's the most robust data but interesting theme nonetheless and it cropped up on a few other lists as well uh again good value great conduit if you like if you enjoy drinking enjoy drinking pinot noir then you know hopping on down to Beaujolais it's not necessarily completely out the realm this producer has obviously become a bit of a darling in the kind of natural wine movement probably one of the most recognisable names in kind of Beaujolais and yeah I think if you're looking, I mean because if you think about recent years especially outside of the obvious regions you know it has been places like Jura and maybe somewhere like Beaujolais or maybe other areas like that a little bit more esoteric where you could see some really big gains in terms of price performance.

30:34Now, obviously, 370 from 280 is not a huge amount in terms of just nominal value, but obviously a 31 % increase in value kind of tends to suggest there's increasing demand and attention for this type of wine. Second place, I think, is this a wine that holds a close place in your heart? Are you a fan of this wine? I do like this wine. Yeah, it's a superb wine. Yeah. You know, probably one of the best white wines you can buy, I think. Yeah, so Chateau Griez from the Rhone Valley, owned by Artemis, who also owned Latour.

31:15Has it got its own Appalachian designation, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's interesting because it's kind of such a premium white wine and it hasn't really done a lot for quite a long time. so i think it's really interesting to see it see it on this list it might be the moment that actually and maybe some of the things we'll come on to later on with this development and more interest in white wine in the key regions around the world for wine demand particularly asia and white burgundy's had a really really good period probably been one of the most robust areas from yeah from from the whole market and lo and behold one of the most premium white wines you can find outside of burgundy has has performed really well and showing on this high on this list i mean i'm a big fan of Vionier anyway but this is this is very much the pinnacle of Vionier and I've been fortunate to taste a few vintages of this wine it's an absolutely incredible wine a real iconic name as you said it's interesting because I think the last couple years where we have seen a bit more of a suppressed market and that suppressed market comes generally from the most well-known names the most trading names obviously falling in value it has maybe given a bit of air time and a little bit of space for some of these names to kind of crop up and you know if you think about But when the wine market went through that huge expanse for like 10, 15 years, one name for me was always kind of a bit of a laggard, which was Chateau de Chem.

32:30And maybe we'll come to a little bit later. But, you know, in the last couple of years, Chateau de Chem is suddenly now kind of it's almost kind of counter cyclical. It's actually performed quite well in this period of time. And maybe it's because everything else is not performing that great. It kind of really stands out and starts to shine a little bit. But the other argument is, you know, the wines that didn't get affected so much by the speculative bubble that occurred in kind of 21 and 22 as a result of the pandemic and those market conditions have had the time to breathe and the time to space to kind of come out at the top of these lists.

33:00Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I think it's very pleasing to see it there, actually. It's a wine that deserves more praise, I think. Absolutely. Number one wine of the year in terms of price performance. only three trades in 24 and three trades in 25 so we have to make that point that we are looking at um you know relatively small data set in in in this in this scenario um 24 it's traded on average price of 917 pounds per case 25 it's traded up at 1350 so a gain of more than 47 percent um which is quite incredible in just one year and it is uh michelle chapoutier's hermitage Le Pavillon which again is an iconic wine you know one of the top wine producers from the Rhone Valley um an incredible um uh cuvee and um I mean 2008 vintage not necessarily remarkable from perspective of maybe a critic score or vintage quality um but maybe just suggests or says something more around sort of those wines now that are getting into that maturity phase where you know people are happy to pay a bit more of a premium to access you know bottles that are ready to go yeah absolutely i also think that even though there's only three trades for the 2008 you know i think that if you look at the trades across the more recent vintages this is a one that's actually quite liquid and traded quite actively across the board and maybe that's a reflection that a 2008 coming into its drinking window yeah i think if you went onto the market now and look for cases it'd probably be quite there's probably very few listed compared to some of the more recent vintage vintage releases 16 17 etc absolutely um there's three more names on this list I'd like to bring up and just get your view on.

34:35And I think they kind of just stand out a little bit to me. So the three wines are Il Maranetto, Brinillo Montecino 2016. The other one is Ozone 2010. And finally, I think really, we talked about this before the pod, but the kind of star of the show for 2025 was Calms Hobreon 22. Are you surprised to see those names in the top of this list? I'm surprised to see Ozone 2010 in there. Not because it's a premium, iconic vintage from Bordeaux but just Ozone never features on these lists yeah but that's the weird thing it's kind of like all the names like Akem or Ozone and these sort of like Griez yeah that don't normally in our last 15 years of working in this industry don't normally see them in these lists but suddenly they're appearing it's interesting you know having lived in in Hong Kong for 10 years and worked in that market where you know they're probably the largest market in the world where they drink the most premium yeah wines and a lot of age Bordeaux Ozone is the that premium iconic estate that you see the least you it's interesting you said i feel like i have drunk quite a lot in asia maybe back in the day yeah for my time maybe yeah yeah no it's one i never come across i never meet anyone that's really into a zone um but i think like maybe some of those kind of traditional old school hong kong buyers very much driven by the kind of first growth bordeaux classified growth i think they see kind of ozone chevel blanc they kind of just make not so dismiss ongellus and pavi but that whole kind of reclassification 22 i don't think I think they give an extra bit of prestige to Ozone because Ozone and Chauvelin are seen as kind of the original first growths on the White Bank, you know, alongside Petrus, Lepan.

36:10Is it not included in the Duclo case? It's included, yeah. Yeah. It's included. I feel like it's still got a little bit of that cachet. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, gone. Yeah. So that surprises me. I mean, that jumped by 20 % across six trades. So pretty decent sample size there. Look, Carmho Brion, as you mentioned, is the star of the show, I think, for this year. This is the one where you really see a marked increase in a challenging year. Even in the first half of 2025, you could see that wine really, really surging in price. Six trades in 2024, 54 trades in 2025, increase in price of 19.1%. And that's related to an in barrel, in bottle tasting, right?

36:53Right. That wine was given 100 points when it was put into the bottle. Yeah. That's just a bit of an old school, a bit of a throwback in the market. you know that hasn't happened for quite some time in the days the halcyon days of of of Robert Parker tasting wines and moving the market overnight who gave it 100 points I think I think you got quite a few did it I think the the head critic who's not William Kelly at Robert Parker the his name is escapes me he's new Johan Castagne that's it 100 points Georgina Hindle from thecounter.com 100 points James Suckley 99 Jeb Dunnig 100 Neil Martin 96 Lisa Protti Brown 99 yeah solid yeah interesting isn't it so it's interesting that even in the wine advocate Johan Castagne which is obviously a pretty new name on the block can still move the market out much that hasn't happened for a long time that hasn't happened for a long time well William Kelly can do it still right yeah maybe not in Bordeaux but certainly you've seen it in Champagne and Burgundy if he gives 100 points the prices go crazy yeah that's true you think like Cecil Tremblay Chappelle Chambetan 2019 he gave 100 points Ryan like doubled in price Egliorier Ulysses Collin he's given 100 points this is just a bit more accessible isn't it no no for sure it's just like you know you know it's just interesting to see the wine advocates still carry that sort of weight yeah in a way I probably should have done a bit more research but I was expecting to see Neil Martin's name there so I would I kind of expect Neil Martin giving 100 points to calm everyone 22 to be able to have that impact on the price maybe it's just you know also a reflection of the fact that 22 is such an exceptional vintage as well um uh yeah really interesting um any comments on little maranetto well i think it's it's uh uh a wine that that's shown up on a few lists here uh the madonna della grazia which is their top cuvee was also performed really well in 2025 um and that dovetails nicely into the top 20 velocity wines because number one on the velocity list which looks at wines that have traded at least five times in both 24 and 25 so we start to narrow down the data set here il marinato is the one at the very top of the list um so there is a substantial amount of trades to look at here um we can kind of ignore any potential noise at outlier impacts and it's coming at 27.3 percent growth in value i just on i i mean i couldn't discern any particular reason why that wine has has has suddenly become so in focus yeah you know usually you hear a bit of something's been in the news yeah or you know someone who's tasted it and made some comments around it look it's a great wine i think it's a wine that that does crop up quite a lot in asia for sure yeah it does it uh it does um i think they did they came over and did a tasting at one of the 2016 is a great vintage for brunello right yep so clearly high quality vintage again yeah i'll be interesting to see what happens this year then i think with with vintages like i mean it's gone up a huge amount this year yeah i'm just looking at the graph and colt x and you can just see how much the trades have increased there you know from the start of that period they're coming in at kind of like 330 per six i mean the last trade of the year was at 565 per six 565 per six and the first trade of the year was at what 330 i mean that's an amazing an increase but it's actually you know congregated around quite a few different uh 96 points but as you said what there's nothing particularly exceptional about it really aside from the fact that you know marionetto the style maybe is something that has resonated with a lot of wine buyers and wine collectors around the world i mean the only other thing you say about marionetto is it just has a lot of good critic scores so i think that kind of um consensus it's i mean don't want to go off on a segue here but i do think consensus driven tasting notes or tasting scores these days is actually quite important to to consumers i think i think it's noticeable when you see oh hang on i said that's got a high score from someone or maybe not a high score from someone when you go oh my god like all of the big names have given that a really good score i think that's when you know that does pick up consumers uh uh attention so maybe that's what's been driving the little marionetto performance um looking at some of the other names on this list it's interesting to see some some some some white wine on here um and we talked in one of the other podcasts a lot about white burgundy and i think that's gonna be another theme for 2026 and and into the future because white burgundy i think continues to go from strength to strength um joseph duran's chastanet monrochette premier crew morgeau marquise de la guiche which is kind of the the baby brother to the monrochette la guiche um that's come in here a 14.4 percent change in value for the 2020 on average um what do you think about white burgundy were you surprised not to see more white burgundy names in this list so far and what do you think particularly around sort of that that producer and that vintage and yeah look i think but white burgundy is certainly uh probably been one of the real bright spots for the whole market over the last two or three years and maybe the the fact that we're not seeing a huge amount in there is because actually a lot of the hard work a lot of the groundwork for those wines was done in maybe in 2024 so they're not necessarily seeing you're not seeing the delta here in the 25 data um but look i think had we done this list for last year yeah i think mon rocher marquis de la guiche probably would have been number one or close to it yeah um so the fact that the shesani the premier crew version which is exceptional uh by the way um is showing on here i think ties in quite nicely with some of the themes we're seeing you know people looking for value people looking for more affordable options for the wines that they love and i think that the marquis de la guiche mon rocher yeah is the maybe not necessarily now but it's still up there in terms of the best value kind of if you can if you can have value next to the word Mont Rocher Grand Cru but certainly Grand Cru level white and burgundy that's one of the that's one of the wines that you get the best sort of bang for your buck in my opinion so the fact that the Premier Cru is on here I think is interesting yeah because I think that you know it's a it's a it's a it's a strong value wine yeah um and probably gives you some of the same character and style of the main wine of the main cuvee I know this is not actually going to be in the top list but I think when we look to this data it's over a thousand wines and kind of looked at sort of a number of trades and price change and i think one statistic for me that stood out is actually looking at all of the wines that did at least 100 trades now every single wine did more than 100 trades on average declined in value in in 2025 and i think that kind of talks to some of the things we were talking about earlier where you know more liquidity more supply with wines that have the more volume on the market obviously getting traded down but i think that will be an interesting thing to see next year you know if we are seeing the market pick up a little bit if we are starting to see people replenish sellers if we are starting to see um you know buyers come back to the market do we sense a shift going to happen for the more traded wines and obviously we'll come into that when we look at our outlook um but that could be something for people to look at this year looking at like the top most traded wines and thinking you know after one two maybe even three years of a lot of these highly traded wines all seeing year after year decline in prices is 26 going to be the year where we start to see that reverse um it feels like statistically that would be the case.

44:05So, you know, that was just an interesting thing that stood out to me because it does feel like that could be where the safe money is in 2026 if people are looking to find value. We've also created what we call the market movers list. So I think for us, what we wanted to do is also slice and dice of data where we could look at maybe sort of higher value wines. So we kind of restricted and shrunk down the universe to look at wines that had a certain amount of traded value in the year and looking at the price change so we combine both price change and an increase in the traded value not necessarily the number of trades and yeah it flung out some really interesting examples and I think this is something that I think gives encouragement I think going into next year especially in some of the more rarer higher value items that have started maybe to suggest that they're kind of either finding a little bit of a plateau or starting to pick up again um i'll just kick off with one name uh which is the number one on this list and that's mouton rossard 1982 uh so coming around to its 44th birthday in 2026 life in the old dog life in the old dog yeah i mean just to put it into context i think um last year it was trading around the 10 000 pound or maybe sub 10 000 pound per case level and i actually remember looking at this um because we actually had some inquiries ourselves for that for this particular wine and it was amazing how quickly the price moved for this uh we had a couple inquiries from the uae for muton 82 and i remember in the market there was a couple of cases in europe a couple of cases in the uk kind of 10 and a half 11 000 pounds all of a sudden once the deal got confirmed like all that supply just vanished and suddenly it was up at 13 13 and a half 14 000 the reason i mentioned that is i think that is what can happen with the really mature kind of iconic vintages of wine and i know a lot of people when it comes to investing one will always focus on the younger vintages one because of accessibility two because of longevity and three normally you buy younger vintages you get them at a good price but in a buoyant market where things are moving in the right direction you know you're just not going to find a huge amount of perfect owc provenance condition authentic cases of Mouton 82 in the market.

46:14Now, if you genuinely do have two or three, four buyers and you don't need a lot of actual buyers, suddenly the price can move quite quickly. And I think that's kind of what we've seen here in the 82, which is a mature, expensive vintage of Mouton, close to over a thousand pounds per bottle, finding a market, having buyers looking for that provenance, looking for that pristine conditioning and willing to pay a price to it because they're probably pretty priced and elastic um so yeah interesting just to see that at the top of the list yeah and i think you know reflection of the fact that buyers out there are prepared to pay for the right condition of wines um particularly at that age as well right because you're spending a lot of money on a case of wine you are rolling the dice a little bit so to be really sure that it's been stored properly that's in perfect condition you know you should you should be happy to pay a premium for that as well um yeah really interesting i think that you know just goes to show how aged wines can be really resilient uh even in in difficult periods because there's fewer cases there's fewer cases listed there's there's um a shallower depth of stock and and there's less stock that's able to come onto the market and keep prices to keep prices suppressed so even if demand is low you know you're you're kind of in in in a in a pretty safe position with with older wines do you think that's a trend that you would advise around for 2026 or do you think that's a trend that could continue into 26 because actually if you think about it like i mean without looking at the data straight away but stuff like hope you're on 89 you think about that first growth that stature obviously the price got pretty crazy for that wine i would guess that's come down quite a lot in the last couple of years but then i just feel like you start thinking of like those iconic vintages like a palmer 83 obviously lafitte and mousse on 82 yeah you know i think it's a balance vintage of some some of those wines you can start thinking well actually could it be a good time to get back in where maybe the prices have come off 20 30 40 percent from where their peak was yeah i think it's i think it is a balance because i think that they are well priced and actually if you look at the if you look at the market for some of those wines they haven't really come down so much but maybe that doesn't really reflect the true picture just because there's a lack of availability on the market what what are the next group of wines up age-wise from those iconic vintages the wines that well exactly yeah the the best wines from the 90s i think you know if you're looking at 82 mouton at you know 89 hope brion maybe though maybe the 89s or 89 hope brion's a bit of an outlier because it's such an iconic wine but i'm looking at latour and margot 96 is the two probably the two greatest certainly left bank um bordeaux wines that were made in wardo in the 90s yeah and having had them haven't been lucky enough to have them recently they're that's the they're the two single or the two best experiences with board i've had for a very very long time they are in the groove now so how long do they have left well at that at that level 10 15 20 years well can i just say to that point just looking at this list um the name that is uh 17th i guess yeah or 18th is hope we're on 2000 yeah uh which was 55 up in 25 versus 24 in terms of the value that was traded and the price increased by 7%.

49:25So that kind of fits in with that thesis that you have there. And you know, up 7 % against a backdrop of Bordeaux falling by 7%. So you really have to take that into consideration when you look at these figures. I think that's pretty interesting. Can we talk about Burgundy? Always. Any Burgundy names on that list that jump out at you?

49:50It's good to see russo back on the list yeah i mean that was one i was thinking um you fell into my truck yeah um probably one of the wines that that suffered the most in during the correction that's because actually i remember sorry to digress slightly but we did a report of the top the top um performing wines of the decade and russo chambetan was number one that was in 22 so maybe towards the peak of the market so if you think that at the peak of the market russo was the best performing wine of anything um over the last decade but then when we did the top wines of 2023 yeah two years ago the two worst performing wines in the top 100 were rousseau yeah chambutan and chateau reyes yeah which we'll come on to yeah so to your point it's interesting to see a little bit that bounce back yeah so look probably grew too much and have corrected during that period of time uh so i think a lot of burgundy junkies out there are we really pleased to see russo on this list um and you know in a big way i think the most interesting figure is the fact that the 2018 has increased in trade value in 2025 by 137 that's really interesting to me yeah because you know it comes back to a point we're raising before buyers are coming back in they're seeing value uh yeah look it's risen by 18 which in the context of how of where russo has been over the last few years isn't necessarily groundbreaking although that's obviously very good um it is really encouraging to see you know what looks like buyers come back in in quite a serious way there yeah because i think when we saw the prices for like shamitan rusa especially like for vintage like 18 get into that kind of like 2 000 euros a bottle level which is kind of roughly what 1500 pounds a bottle i think we were looking at each other going like how much lower can it go yeah it's got to have some support at this stage and i think that's what we've seen a little bit about rebound where it's picked back up from that kind of 1500 pounds level going back up towards that sort of 2000 pounds per bottle uh which is interesting i mean just looking at a couple other names on this list um obviously we talked about champagne earlier uh but in this particular list we're looking at some of the more expensive older vintages so p2 i know for a fact across most of the p2 vintages has done really well uh the 98s come in here 150 up in terms of trade value and the price is appreciated by 15 soldera is in there which i think has weathered the storm in terms of the market performance i think actually if you look at it's probably been the best performing yeah well probably i mean alongside probably like tnlo which is a different story but I think Soledera in terms of the top end of the market has done incredibly well, despite, you know, everything around it kind of crumbling to a certain extent.

52:22Salon as well. 1997 will come on to that a little bit in terms of more and more recent vintages. And you did touch on Salon O2. You know, we asked, you know, that that was kind of a bit of a darling of the investment market. Obviously, the price went up, but skyrocketed, went crazy during the pandemic, came off a lot. And, you know, we started to see demand and trading and interest in Salon start picking up again. so yeah there's some really encouraging signs just by looking at the names and the vintages on this list absolutely um interesting about i'm just going to pick out another one eggly uri a miller seam 2013 yeah um because again i think over the last kind of two and a half years alongside soldera i'd probably say eggly uri a momo che marquis laguiche and soldera without going into too much of the detail of the data off the top of my head i feel like those wine those three wines have been a real kind of they've kind of bucked the trend somewhat yeah versus the market so the fact that the 2013 vintage is on this list in 2025 having performed very well in 2024 i think is really interesting and just goes to show how popular that wine is how well regarded that wine is because and justifiably so it's an exceptional wine one of the best champagnes that that that is produced you know without question the millicene from from igleria so i mean how many different ways can we slice and dice the data you ask and we've got lots many more ways it's a three and a half hour podcast uh knives that are ready right um how are we chopping up this one we are looking at wines that are traded a minimum of five times and we look at the first trade of the year versus the last trade of the year and ranking them from the highest appreciation downwards so in front of us we've obviously reduced this list down to a digestible 20 wines um i mean there's some interesting names on there for sure i mean one name here that's in second place is going to be a real surprise for a lot of people it's not a real surprise to me because i absolutely adore this wine it's actually the pinot noir but it's normally the chardonnay um i was known for a while to do blind tastings of uh grand crew um burgundy and premier crew burgundy um to audiences where i would hide this chardonnay in there and i could guarantee almost every time people would be absolutely astounded that a it wasn't from burgundy and b it would often come out first or second favorite and this is a wine from new zealand under screw cap which is called bell hill um the chardonnay is phenomenal but actually it's the pinot noir that comes out in this list um it traded 12 times in uh were they all you yeah i've sabotaged yeah you've moved the market it traded 12 times uh in 2025 and the first trade of the year came in at around a thousand pounds um per case and the last trade of the year came out at 1900 so if you look at the difference between the last and last trade in the first trade of the year was an 88 percent increase um over those 12 trades throughout the year um which is which is quite remarkable it's always refreshing and nice to see a new name and like you know the names on this list you know got il marinetto we've got sasakaya we've got louis latour court on charlemagne ornelia donprian reyes russo sasakaya beyond di santi unico from ribera d 'odduero lafitte laflev chevalier momrachet so the company it's keeping is right out of the top drawer yeah it's really interesting because it's not a cheap wine no it's not for sure it's a premium this is a premier crew burgundy price yeah for for a wine from new zealand yeah and if you actually look at the trades you know it's a genuinely this price has been bid up to this level throughout the year and people have looked at the price at 1700 and thought i still like that i want to buy more and they continue to buy which i think is really interesting i've not tried it um i've not been at one of your blind tastings when you've showed have you not tried it i think we've had it before the chardonnay yeah no i've not tried it um so yeah looking forward to it actually yeah um a really interesting project it was the vineyards planted in old limestone quarry so yeah definitely a name to look out for and if you haven't heard about it before then then do have a look online and check that wine out um do you know what it kind of it kind of fits in with a thesis i've had for a while which is you know with burgundy you know being so popular and obviously price is increasing you kind of always have this feeling that for Pinot Noir lovers and to a certain extent a certain degree Chardonnay lovers where do you go outside of Burgundy if you want to get your Pinot Noir Chardonnay fix and I've always thought that's quite a good thesis for trying to identify maybe more of the under the radar opportunities for investment yeah absolutely um I think we've seen that with lots we've seen that with other regions we've seen that with dura um we've seen that with uh actually some wines from italy that have a kind of burgundian style um so well i think all the burgundy nuts that i know love soldera for that style because this it is it is quite similar in style yeah um finesse aromatics uh stella de campalto yeah is a producer that she clearly loves burgundy she's clear you know i don't i haven't met her personally but those wines are quite burgundian in style yeah and a bit of a cult producer very difficult to get hold of but they're wines that i would say that people that love burgundy trying to gravitate towards i also say the it was on it was on the uh uh the previous list but a media pepe the abruzzo his his certainly the the red wines have that kind of light but slightly burgundian style not the same but there's a lot of similar characteristics there that people gravitate towards and then finally you know strictly speaking about Pinot Noir some areas that I think that haven't necessarily kind of popped investment wise yeah but I think the the best conduit to old world Pinot from France from Burgundy are Spat Burgunders I think that the top Spat Burgunders produce wines that are most similar in style to to look never going to be like the top wines from from Burgundy but I think if you're looking for I had an amazing one the other day i mean fritz becker's wines are now the one i had some of the best is um daniel twardowski um spat burgunda and it's called pinot noir but the noir spelt n-o-i-x it's been on my radar for a while i was in a restaurant i saw on the list i snapped it up straight away it's actually quite a good price in a restaurant about 100 pounds of bottle in london which is actually pretty good amazing okay amazing case in point yeah definitely worth um seeking out for anyone listening that's a Pinot Noir lover check that out Pinot Noir N-O-I-X that's not on this list but certainly yeah plays into that thing and I also think the the Pinots from if we're looking at uh sort of Australia and New Zealand having not had Bell Hill but um some of the producers in in Tasmania uh are producing wines that this keeps coming up yeah they are challenging to find have you tried a few yeah the some of the names escape me I've got a couple of clients who are really into them uh they do get a bit in hong kong but they're difficult to find they're low production they keep them in australia yeah you have to find specialist importers maybe you know they keep coming up so maybe it's something for a project for us to work on this year to try and get some for people to try yeah because i think they are very similar in style a lot of the wines that i've tried old old world style pinot yeah great it's cold it's a cold weather growing conditions essentially all right well let's get back to this list and then i just want to pick out a couple of names one that we we've mentioned briefly but i think worth worth looking at which is Chateau Reyes yes a bit of background on on this because it you know it's traded five times this is the 2012 vintage uh first trade of the year was at 7100 uh the last trade of the year was up at 9000 so an increase of 25 from the beginning to the end of the year any reason for that um I think I'll probably have to start this conversation by this is probably my desert island wine I think Chateau Reyes the most singular unique wine that's more that's more of an everyday um yeah so i think look i think it's the most singular wine that you can find uh compared to the region um grenache i mean the in in chateauneuf-du-pap you won't try another wine from chateauneuf-du-pap that tastes like raias what they do there uh is really unusual the site they have the terroir is very unique um look probably the one of the most visionary winemakers as well manuel renault um who you know was really leading that and and shaped the way that rias is he passed away in in november really sad really sad for for for winemakers around the world because this is one of the most popular wines in the world by the amongst the kind of aficionados around the world i mean he was enigmatic he was an enigma he was um yeah a special winemaker yeah absolutely um and look i think there's a fine fine art effect here um you know there is only a certain amount of these wines produced made by his hand uh he was very much linked to the winemaking style and what rias is and why rias is so is so exceptional um so look really sad day for wine wine lovers around the world that he passed away and the other side of this is that people are now looking to buy the wines off the market that he made and it just so happens that as Tom alluded to the prices for Rias have been it's been one of the worst performing wines in the market.

1:01:39Yeah prices have cooled off quite a lot because they increased dramatically throughout the Covid period essentially they went up significantly to to levels that i actually think aren't outrageous for us you know if you look at the top prices for top burgundies for example the most expensive wines in the world raias is probably one of the only wines from around the world that i think rivals those wines in terms of cachet yeah quality history um well look we were talking about russo chametan which is kind of that 1.5 to 2k per bottle level for the off vintage like the cheapest accessible vintage and you think well I don't see a problem in the grand scheme of things with Reyes being priced around the same sort of level as that because it's in the same sort of cachet and it did get to that level it did get to that level it got to that level and quickly and quickly cooled off and has subsequently cooled off quite significantly so it's been the thing with Reyes I find is you find a lot of loose bottles in Reyes but not a lot of I think that's by design I think for me it creates quite disparity because if you said to me go into the market and find 20 vintages of Reyes, I could do single bottles where I might even be able to be picking stuff up at like 500, maybe 550 euros a bottle.

1:02:48But then when you look at the 12 bottle case prices, they could be more like 8, 9 grand a case. More like kind of 7, 800. So out of all the wines I can think of, even in Burgundy, I don't think you see as much of a discrepancy between kind of the single loose bottles and the case prices. And I don't know whether that's also impacted by the distribution. Obviously a lot of Reyes went into restaurants, especially French restaurants. And I don't know whether you see that kind of okay if you're a french restaurant and you've got an allocation from a manual reino probably 150 euros a bottle you know you're probably more inclined to sell those loose bottles back into the market to clear stock and generate capital at three four hundred euros and that that generates a price versus maybe the the occ level so i just think the structure of that market is maybe what's impacted a little bit in terms of hasn't given it that degree of protection that maybe yes you know original case burgundy grand cruz get yeah absolutely uh and you know We're starting to see those wines start to really tick up in value now and start to recover properly.

1:03:46So I guess, look, there's a lot of people that own Raias that maybe have bought into that area over the last few years. And I think that it's not great to see valuations come down the way they have. But the quality of the wine, the outlet for those, the demand for that wine, how much affection there is for it. You know, I think it's going to be a real standout performer in 2026. yeah look i mean i i think it'd be remiss of us not to mention the fact that on this momentum list uh the top 20 wines the highest appreciation from the first trade to the last trade of the year it'd be remiss of us not to mention there's two first growth wines on here which it's felt for a long time you wouldn't be seeing a first growth name anywhere near a list like this um but chateau lafitte rossard 2014 um 52 trades throughout the year the first trade of the year that we recorded was 3 ,842.