Bea Miller | Child Stardom on The X Factor, Depression and the Wild Stories Behind Her Songs

20:17Justin Tranter:I don't mean to laugh, but that's so insane. It's really bad. Okay, now, hold on. As I was saying, like, I had to learn to have a tough skin really early. And so I think that helps my career now because I was, like, already dealing with so much shit that comes with, like, being a child. And, like, I'm a child of divorce. Like, my parents were separating, even though they were never allowed to be legally married because gay marriage was not legal at the time. Speak on it. Speak on it. Ew. and I was like dealing with like just like hormones and puberty and also like bullies in my school, trolls on the internet and I think it was a really miserable time for me to be alive.

20:54You could tell on my Tumblr like I was saying earlier.

20:57Justin Tranter:Just like reblogging like death, kill, drugs, partying. I literally had no friends. There was no party to be had. You know what's so crazy? in all of my child stardom, stardom, nobody has ever offered me any drugs. Do I just not look cool enough for like some like grown person to be like at some like industry party to be like, hey, want to go do cocaine? Right. Like, why not me? Like, I just so, you know, I'm just feeling like, I don't really know like what vibe I was giving off that like nobody was asking me, but I feel like - Maybe because you're so short, they were like, she can't handle this.

21:36No, she can't. She really can't handle it.

21:38Justin Tranter:Wait, I need to back up for one second. So when someone is really, really creepy to you at a meet and greet, a very old adult, and then you go, okay, I need to take a 10-minute break, is someone saying to you, you need to get back out there and finish this? Or are you saying to yourself, I have fans waiting? How do you get through that? There's, I mean, it's a little bit of both. It's like, obviously, I, like, this actually hasn't happened to me in a while, which is disturbing. It happened to me more when I was a minor, which just really goes to show you like how predatory people really can be.

22:15But it was a little bit of like, okay, it's not my fans fault who are young girls like me who actually love my music and relate to me and like, we're bonding and like, this is like for them. It's not their fault that like, you can't really screen who buys a meet and greet ticket. You know, it's like, how would some kind of algorithm, like you can't like discriminate and be like oh because you're above a certain age or you're a certain gender or whatever like you can't yeah obviously like be like oh like if you're like um like a a straight man over 35 you can't buy my ticket what the fuck like that they're just gonna pretend they're gay there's yeah there's no way they're gonna like submit like an instagram

22:50Justin Tranter:with rainbows and be like let me meet her like oh it's like those tiktoks that like i feel like i see sometimes of like gay like gay dudes being like okay like how do i let girls know on a walk that like I'm not gonna kill them. Like we're on a hike and it's like, slay diva. Like should there be some kind of requirement like that online to buy a meet and greet ticket? I don't really think that that's possible. So it's like - Show us your Grindr account. Right. And then you can come to meet and greet. Right, or like just play the sound and see if they respond. But I just feel like there's no, so it's like not these girls' fault that like some weird pervert was able to come to my meet and greet.

23:25So there was a little bit of me being like, I need to get back out there. but there was also like this is like a thing that I feel like happens I'm sure you've experienced it where it's like I think that a lot of the times the people who help you in your career like of course a lot of times you hope that they care about you as a person but also like you you know that like it's also their job to like get you on stage to get you where you need to go and so sometimes there's like a weird air of like you can tell that they just want you to like get the fuck back out there and do your job. But you can tell that they also have to be like -

23:59Justin Tranter:This is crazy. Delicate about it and a little bit like, okay, so, so it's a lot of like, okay, so clearly you're upset. That was very upsetting. Weird. We've escorted him out of here. And you take all the time you need. That being said, sound check is in 30 minutes and you have about a 27 minute line left waiting to meet you and they have paid. If you want, we can refund it. we might not be able to afford gas to the bus tonight, but if you want, it's ultimately up to you because clearly this is a very upsetting time. You know what I mean? There's a lot of that kind of, like when you as a human are also the product, it's like a very weird thing for people, I think, working with you to help you succeed.

24:46Justin Tranter:By the way, your performance as a manager, Oscar worthy. Thank you. That was great. Thank you. Thank you. Did you relate? Are you like, wow, that's so, so me. It actually wasn't Tim at the time. And this was like my old weird managers who were like really scary and like were not just scary to me. But yeah, it was it's just I feel like there's a lot of that when it's like people who are trying to help you who do care about you. But ultimately, like you are the product, but you're also a human being. It's very like weird thing. It's layered. Sometimes. OK, to bring it back to collaboration. What.

25:19Justin Tranter:Do you feel like are because I love that you are using the nuance, which is true of like they do care about you, but there's still money involved. So it's this weird, very layered thing. When it comes to like collaborators, what for you is like the worst thing someone could do in a writing session? What is like a, I'm never going back to that person again. I mean, there are a lot of things that I could say would be like the worst thing. And like, if I'm like imagining like crazy shit that I actually have not experienced, I think - What have you experienced? My least favorite thing, I actually have not been like unlucky in the sense that people are being like, super like I mean I've been in a session before with someone who's actually like very successful um but I think because of their success like believe it you know like it just kind of gave this person like a big head I think and I was like talking about what I wanted my style to be and like the sound that I was working on I was probably like 18 at this time and um I was like starting a new project and this was the first time that we had met and I already had some examples of some stuff that like I liked and he straight up was like no none of that's good and I was like okay okay like yeah first of all you could have put that more delicately even if you are right like you know could have been a nice way to approach that but secondly like you're you don't work for my label you don't work for my management like we're like meeting to like create together and you're basically telling me that all my ideas are bad and that I don't know myself and I was like just because I'm like a teenager doesn't mean that I don't know myself know myself and like know the message that I want to get out to my fans who are my age also which I think has also frustrated me throughout time yeah it's like um you know now I'm 27 now I just like I feel like obviously like my fan base is like a bigger it's like the age group I think is larger now but when I was writing music as a teenager I'm writing music for teenagers so I didn't like when people who were significantly older than being a teenager would tell me like what wouldn't like be communicated well to my fans so that was like not great I was like that's such a weird to say.

27:17And I've had things like that happen before, but I also have been in sessions in real life where, um, it's like me and like two or three straight men. And like, I say something and no one really reacts. And then one of them repeats it. And everyone's like, that's a great idea. And I actually, before that happened in the first time I was like that, like, I feel like it couldn't be that blatant. Like our men really that blatantly ignoring. Cause I was like a child when this was happening. So before that I hadn't been in rooms where like I had been exposed to the possibility of like men doing shit like that where they truly ignore you speak over you almost like laugh at you don't care about what you're saying one of them does actually hear it pretends that they don't kind of repeats it in their own words and then it's like wow that was genius that has happened to me on more than one occasion and I have never worked with those people ever again because I'm like you are profiting off of like pop girls and you hate women

28:09Justin Tranter:that was the perfect lead into what I was going to say you set it up even better I'm going to make a big broad statement, so don't get crazy in the comments, but I'm going to make this statement is that the bulk, broad statement, the bulk of straight men do not buy tickets to see female pop artists perform. If they do, it's for their girlfriends or their daughters. And yet the bulk of pop music being sung by women is being made by straight men. They don't even like this art form. And then, then because they wrote it, then they like want to bring like 17 of their weird male friends to the show and you have to like give them out all these tickets.

28:51It's like huge. They all hate the show. And then they just stand here like this.

28:57Why the fuck are you here? Like actually like why the fuck are you here? Yeah. And I know that that is a blanket statement. There are obviously like straight men who are very talented pop writers for young women. It's like very like weird that it works out that way but it does a lot of times. But I do think it's strange that a lot of people who are in charge of the way that like young women's careers work are, whether it's like songwriters, managers, people at record labels, people publishing companies. You wouldn't listen to this in your free time. I know that you don't. I actually know that even when you're working with me, you don't listen to my music in your free time.

29:33You listen to it when you have to like approve a mix or give me your opinion on something that I've made or whatever, but it's like, unless you worked with me you would never be buying a ticket to my show so i do think that that is weird and there are of course like a lot of men that i work with that i love and that i appreciate and like i have like benefited a lot from their help and advice but

29:52Justin Tranter:it does strike me as odd well i think that's where it's like an industry like that is like there's so many women who are like the powerhouse of pop music yep and a lot of times there's just like straight dudes behind the scenes where it's like what this is not like we're not making music for you how do you even know how to write music that's not for you yeah really weird hello my little unfamous friends so um the thing about the algorithm little miss algorithm is that she um doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it so if you follow this podcast what do the old school youtubers say like subscribe and follow If you do that for me, then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people.

30:43So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye.

30:50Justin Tranter:Well, I think like the reason why someone wouldn't listen to you is because it's not in a session is because it's not even what they like. You know, it's like I grew up obsessed with the songs that Ani DeFranco wrote when she was 18, 19, 20. The album that Alanis Morissette wrote when she was 18, 19. Like the album that Fiona Apple wrote when she was 16. Like that is what I care about. So when I met you, when I met Julia Michaels, when I met these brilliant young women who were unbelievable writers, of course I'm going to listen because that's what I like. and let me help you guys do what you do even better.

31:28Justin Tranter:Yeah. And I think that that's like a huge mistake in our industry is it's like, well, if you're not, you're not listening to these young women because one, you're misogynistic, but two, because you don't even like the art form. Yeah. So just get out of here. Get out. Like just get out of here. But that's also like, it's impossible to say because like there has been so much success. Of course. So I'm just like, fuck, but I'm like, how did you get here in the first place? It's so frustrating. And like, there are, I'm sure like plenty of dudes who are not misogynistic, who are like actually like, oh, I still wouldn't listen to this in my free time, but I'm helping you do it.

32:00And I like want you to have your voice and whatever. But I was truly, I don't know why I was shocked by this because like, of course, like a straight man will always have the audacity in like every industry. But I really, when I was younger, was very shocked by the amount of very successful writers who had worked with a lot of female artists who I would get in the room with and they would not give a fuck about anything I was saying. I was like, how? This is so weird that you've made it so far.

32:25Justin Tranter:Without listening to the artists. Without listening to any of these women who have made you successful. It's like crazy. A gajillion dollars. It is so weird. I know how B. Miller writes a song because I write many with you. To all of your amazing fans listening, how do you start a song? I think that's the biggest question I get from people trying to write songs. How do you start? It is a mystery. It's a mystery. It is a mystery. It's honestly a mystery to me, too. Like, I don't know if it's ever a mystery to you. Like, in a way, it's like, yeah, I obviously know how we start a song. But sometimes, like, this has happened to us before where we, like, reach the end of, like, writing a chorus or whatever.

33:01And we're like, this is fucking really good. Like, what the fuck? Like, you literally just make it out of thin air. And it's like, as it's happening, I don't always realize that it's happening. But people do ask me this question actually a lot. Like, friends and just, like, random people that I meet who don't work in the music industry or especially, like, any creative industry.

33:19Justin Tranter:Like they really can't understand. But I always say like, I think it's obviously different for everybody. Like I know some people who like write a whole fucking set of lyrics at home with no melody and bring it to someone who writes a melody. Like I know people who do everything 100 % completely by themselves in like an hour or some people who spend like fucking two months on one song. Like it's obviously different for everyone. But I would say when we make a song, it's like we, first of all, we just like shoot the shit for like an hour. We laugh and play. It always starts with conversation. And then you eventually will flag something that I say by accident.

33:53And you're like, that's the song of the day. Because a lot of times, like there are every once in a while, like I've come to you, like when we were depressed on the internet, I was like, oh, this is what I want to write about today. Because like I just recently discovered that I have apparently had depression for like five years. Surprise, surprise. But other times.

34:09Justin Tranter:Morgan, do you know this story? It's worth repeating. It's worth repeating. Yeah, there's actually a prompt in there. I wanted to get to this. Okay, great. Let's get to it now. Yeah, so. Your friends corner you. My friend, yeah, my best friend, Teddy, cornered me. She's also my roommate. And we've lived together for many years now. And we were talking about something. She, like, unintentionally cornered me because at first we were just having a conversation in our kitchen. And then I made some kind of joke that, to me, was genuinely, like, I was like, LOL, imagine. It was like, oh, my God, like, that would be like if I was, like, super depressed and blah, blah, blah.

34:44And she, like, we were in the middle of like, ha, ha. She literally goes, ha, ha. I was like, oh, fuck. It was actually like that, like out of a movie. I was like, oh my God, girl. I've never seen someone do that in real life, for real. And she literally immediately stops laughing. And she's like, if you were depressed. And I kept laughing because I was like.

35:05Justin Tranter:Yeah, if. Yeah, if. Yeah. She was like, you think that the way that you are and the things that you feel or really mostly don't feel is just like your personality i was like yeah like i've been this way for years like i'd be like yeah granted like i used to like have you know more excitement and joy and like passion and love and like all these wonderful things when i was younger but like that's just that's just what happens when you're a teenager Joy and passion and love. That's only for teens. That's only for teens. Adults are all just beaten down by the world. So of course we don't experience those things.

35:46It's like, ah, like you date someone. You're like, I guess, like whatever. Like love, it's just like, I don't really fucking care. It's just like something to do. It's like, oh, I'm going to write this song because like I have to pay my bills and there's no such thing as passion or love or excitement or joy. That's just what happens when you are an adult. And she was like, no, like you used to have passion for these things and enjoy life, not because you were a teenager who just like was more emotional, but because you weren't experiencing extreme depression. I was like, no, but like there have been times where I've like literally like wanted to die and like that was extreme depression.

36:22Like that's what depression looks like for me. She was like, no, actually, like there are different ways to be mentally ill. She was like, there are different branches of each mental illness. She was like, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I've been to enough of my own doctors to be able to tell you, girl, that first of all, you need a therapist. I've been begging you for years. Second of all, like, I was just like, I truly thought that I just got older and my personality became apathetic. Like, I was like, oh, like, I've just been so beaten down by the world that I've developed a really thick skin and, like, I just, and instead of just being thick skin and still experiencing joy, I was like, and my thick skin is so thick that I never get too excited about anything so I never get super let down and everything is just kind of whatever and I don't care.

37:03Fine, ish, yeah. It's just like whatever. and she was like that is you have depression and I was like oh and I actually had no idea then so we were talking about this for a while and I was like laughing so hard I was crying but I was also maybe crying so it's like fuck like what the fuck I need help like I truly was like this is who I am for years and then she was like no like you're like actually someone totally else and I was like well that's also something I don't really want to unpack um like who like if I'm not this like apathetic diva like who am I like that sounds really annoying to figure out and I was like this is fucked.

37:35Justin Tranter:Feel something. Yeah. Which is not your biggest song, but it's our biggest song together is literally like at 19, you came into a session with me and you were like, God, feeling things must be so cool. Like, I don't, I just, I don't. Yeah. And what's the opening line of if I could choose anything? I would be good in bed one day. Because you're just like, sex is so boring. Why is everyone obsessed with this? Nothing is fun. And like, everyone just like loves to come and it's just like not that great. I just like, I was just like nothing. It's like not that fun. And like, ugh, like kissing. Everyone's lying.

38:10I'm like, get off me. Everyone is just like, let's like go party. I'm like, ugh. Like maybe if we drink enough to die, like that would be exciting. Like I just was like, I don't. Which leads to our song, Drunk Enough.

38:22Justin Tranter:Right. That's your new single. Yeah, this new single is literally about like, oh, like I just have to get drunk enough to actually enjoy life because I have depression. But at this time, I actually knew about that depression already. so I was working on it. But I didn't know that there was anything to work on prior to this conversation with Teddy, and I just thought that, like, this was my state of being. And then what really set me over the edge and made me believe, like, perhaps I actually truly have a problem was that my other roommate, James, came home. And, you know, he, I wouldn't say, like, love James, like, he's my friend, but I wouldn't say he's the most, like, like, we don't know how to have, like, emotional conversations, really.

39:00and we don't like tap into our like feelings together very often. Roommates, not sisters. Yes. And he came in while we were having this conversation and Teddy was like, James, B thinks she's not depressed. And James started laughing. And was like, oh, like we all thought you knew. And I was like, you all thought that I have this problem and no one ever brought it to my attention. And they were all like, well, it was so obvious that we just figured that you knew and just didn't care. I was like no I mean I don't care about stuff but apparently that's because I'm depressed and not because I'm just really cool and I was like that is so fucked so that day was really an eye opener for me and then like a week later we wrote Depressed on the Internet so that day we obviously had something to talk about but I do feel like a lot of times we just are kiki-ing and then you're like an hour and a half and you're like well that's the song and then we accidentally like have a whole thing to write about that I wasn't planning on So like, that's my process.

39:58My process is we just have fun. To bring it all back. God, I'm like, I'm like hosting the podcast for you.

40:04Justin Tranter:I keep trying to interject and you're just like, I'm going to interject. I'm hosting the podcast.

40:15Justin Tranter:That I always start my writing process with conversation. Conversations with you are just, it's a little more special. like Sex for Attention one of my favorites you were telling me a story how you were at the bar in like these leather pants dancing all night things were musty tight leather pants tight leather pants and like not cotton underwear so like that's how you really know like cotton like kind of keeps everything like from schvitzing too bad I think I was like it was like mostly polyester It's like not. It's like plastic. Plastic panties. Plastic and leather. Yep. And dancing. And dancing.

41:00Justin Tranter:And you were telling me how you were in leather pants, plastic panties, dancing all night, and you really wanted everyone's, you needed to know that at least one person wanted to fuck you. Yeah. And then the problem was. And I didn't really want to fuck anybody else. I was like, but you should want to fuck me. You just want, you want the attention. Yes. You should want to fuck me, but I don't want to fuck you. But I need to know you want to fuck me. and so then we wrote a whole song of you were like oh fuck now i have to maybe i have to fuck this person yeah because i just i'm having sex for attention yes like i need attention but then like i i'm just like i get so much attention that it's like oh well now i just like i really now i have to do the sex now i have to do sex with you like i've let this get so far because that night also like I um that night I just like it was like this group of dudes there's always like some group of dudes who have a table first of all but you know what's really fucking annoying these dudes had a table at Davey Wayne's fuck you you can't Davey Wayne's is like a kitschy dive bar it's a kitschy if you don't live in LA no it's well actually it's like shut down because of a vermin infestation.

42:16Yeah, I was infested with rats like this past weekend, so I don't really know.

42:19Justin Tranter:Well, that makes you like it more, yeah. I actually feel like lean into the dive, get rats. Come into the pit. Yeah, like actually now, I haven't gone there in a while, now I'll be returning. Like once they clear out those rats, I'm just gonna know that they were there and I'm gonna be like, that makes me like you. This place is cool. But they're almost like, they're like, they probably were a dive like back in the day and then they became like cool, kind of like trendy. Trendy, trendy. Trendy, so then it became like a little bit less divey because it was like trendy, but it was trendy because it was a dive kind of, you know, that's like a never in a cycle.

42:47Chicken egg, chicken egg. Yes. And, but like, it's just like not the kind of place where like, it's not like a club where you're like, I'm going to get a table and get bottle service. Like, it's just like, so like annoying, first of all, that these dudes were like, we have a table at Davey Wayne's.

42:59Justin Tranter:I was like, fuck you. So they're like asking me like, oh, come over to our table. Like you and your girlfriends, like you guys are so hot and fun and cool. And I was like, I know. And like, cause that's why we're having more fun without you. We don't need your table. Cause we're at Davey Wayne's like, fuck off. And a lot of them were, like, wearing sweatshirts in the club. I was like, I just, like, can't with you. Like, I'm just like, you're annoying me. And so they keep going up and asking. I'm like, no, like, go away. Like, we're having fun. Like, I, like, want to buy my own drink. I love paying$25 for a vodka soda.

43:25Because I just, I honestly, most of the time, like, my friends will get on me about this. They're like, why don't you just, like, pretend to be interested in a man for 10 minutes to get a free drink? And I'm like, I actually would rather go bankrupt buying my own drinks than pretend that men are interesting for even one second. Like, I just cannot fucking do it. That whole thing where you're in the line and you're like, wow, that's so cool. I just fucking hate it so bad. They're asking, come to the table. I'm like, no, no, no. Finally, my friends are like, we don't want to keep buying our drinks.

43:55Justin Tranter:We're going to the table. We need to figure this out. Table time. I think I know some guys. And they come back for like the third, fourth time. Come to our table. I was like, fine, it's your lucky day. We'll come to your table. and so then like but then I'm like kind of being like okay like this is like a game to me like how much can I flirt with this like fucker who like I don't care about and like how interested can I get him to be to like give me attention make me feel like so beautiful and awesome and sexy and fun and um I took it so but then also it's like then I had the drinks are flowing now I'm having like a silly time now I just like want to keep the night going so then the the bar closes and then they're like we're gonna go and like play beer pong or something in our house and I love I love beer pong.

44:33Justin Tranter:And I love beer pong. You do, yeah. And so obviously I'm there. I'm like, yeah, I'm there. And I drag my friends along with me, but also you're welcome to my friend Olivia because she actually met her boyfriend this way because I dragged her ass to this apartment and I was like, let's go. But yeah, so now it's like, I'm like, I've been getting the attention for so long because like now I'm like having a little bit of fun, but I'm not really having fun with this man. I'm just like having fun. But now it's like, he thinks that I came back because I'm like flirt. And so then I was like, well now I just need to commit to the bit.

44:59Like now it's 4am. Now it's 4 a.m. And he's just been, like, wanting to fuck me more and more all night. And so. How was it? We didn't have sex because. Oh, good, good, good. But he did go to town for, like, 30 minutes. After, again, I had been schvitzing in my leather pants all night. Like, I don't know that I've ever sweat that much from my puss. Until this night. And then.

45:29Justin Tranter:He loved it. And he peeled my leather pants off me. Peeled them off. Top still on. I'm just like, looking at the ceiling. He's just like going for it. Eventually I was like, well, that was great. Thanks. Pat him on the head. And then I was like. Still there's not for you Coke. Yeah. And then I was like, yeah. He actually was like, oh, but like, I can't get my dick hard because I did too much Coke. And I was like, oh, no. And then I left. So. And then we wrote Sex for Attention. And we wrote Sex for Attention. So yeah, if this story speaks to you at all, you're going to love my next, my album, Upcoming Project.

46:06You're going to be like, wow, she's so mean.

46:09Justin Tranter:The last song I have to talk about in this current tangent, there'll be more tangents, don't worry. My other favorite song starter with you was a song that we have coming called LA Ugly. Because I asked you, what? Because we had just written, the day before we wrote a song called Unlovable, which is one of my other favorites on the album, which is you just being like, I'm unlovable. Can someone please teach me how to be lovable? And then I was like, okay, so that's like a, it's, I wouldn't call it a ballad, but it's emotional and still funny because you're always funny. But I was like, today, like, what's just like, what makes you feel sexy?

46:52Justin Tranter:Like, what makes you feel hot? Like, what makes you, that's like, Like, what's B. Miller's version of a sexy song? And without flinching, you go, oh my God, you know what makes me feel so hot? That I'm ugly in LA. That I am LA ugly. Like, being an LA 10 must be so exhausting. Those girls who are LA 10s, like, they have to look hot all the time. If someone takes a bad picture of me, I don't have to stress because no one's looking at my pictures. Yeah, they're getting lost in the sea of bad pictures. It's like a drop in the bucket. Like no one fucking cares. A lot of them I post myself. It's like I really don't think it matters.

47:35Justin Tranter:And I was like, the fact that without flinching, that was your honest answer. What makes me feel hot is that I'm not, to get a little cheesy about it, that I'm not perfect. And that is actually so sexy to me. Like you were being funny because you always are, but you weren't like, that was your immediate answer. This is what makes me hot. And then we wrote a ridiculous song about - Being in LA, seven on a good day. I would say like, averagely, I'm a six. But if I have like my face beat and like my tits out, like I'm maybe a seven. Which I was saying - Take you to where I grew up, take you to the Midwest.

48:17Justin Tranter:You're an 11.7. No, exactly. Like we're like the hottest people alive when we leave the city. and so is basically everyone. Yeah. And so we're writing this song and you and I understand it deeply. Like I know I'm not an LA 10. I like the way I look, but I'm not an LA 10 and that sounds exhausting. Yeah. Having to have abs every single day. No, like I'm not going to Pilates at 6 a.m. I've never had abs. Like I'm just not doing it. And so you and I are understanding this song and like the like fabulous, ridiculous truth behind it. But the other, our other two amazing collaborators, Oak Felder and Dan Crean, kept being like, B, you're not ugly?

48:53Justin Tranter:And you're like, I'm not. Well, now I actually think I am ugly. Now the fact that you two are being like, oh, B, like, it's not that bad. I'm like, well, now I actually feel like you think I'm the ugliest fucking troll to ever walk this earth. I was actually feeling really hot and fun and sexy over here with Justin until you guys were like, oh, no. Oh, you guys. You're cute, though. Aw. Aw, like, they really were trying their best. But I was like, no, like, you don't get it. Like, I'm pretty confident in myself. Like, I'm really just, like, happy with the way I look. It's fine. Yeah. But I'm definitely not the hottest baddie in a room most of the time in this city.

49:34Justin Tranter:And that's okay. I definitely have been in, like, the middle of nowhere. Yeah. But I'm okay with that. And I'm actually happy about it. Because I've said to you, like, I'm hot enough to get into the club without much of a fuss, without waiting too long on the line. Yeah. But not so hot that once I'm in there, I am just being constantly bombarded by people who are like, oh my God, I just have to have her. Yeah. Except for that one time when those guys come to our table, we have hoodies on and we've got a table at Davey Wayne's. Right. I mean, they needed love. Yeah, they really did. And you gave it to them.

50:08Yeah, because clearly I needed attention.

50:10Justin Tranter:No, as such an amazing singer, which you'll never say about yourself, but I'll say it for you, as a truly, truly, truly special singer, um how do you the difference of like a demo vocal versus a final vocal the even just a demo production versus final production what is your process of keeping magic of the demo but making sure something's finished and you can focus on the vocal if you want or I have definitely been guilty of demoitis which um in case anyone's unfamiliar I feel like it's kind of self-explanatory but it's just like you have a demo of something that you make the same day and it's not finished but you listen to that demo so many times that you're like when it's actually like potentially made better technically like you can't let go of like the original version which um a lot of producers hate that they really don't like to send us a day of bounce of the song because they're like what if you like it better than when I actually put in a lot of time and energy into making it better but I really try not to be guilty of that but sometimes I think that there is like I think it depends on the lyrical content and like emotional feeling of the song when I feel like it's finished.

51:26Justin Tranter:Yeah. I think that there have been songs that I've worked on where they're really emotional and like really tug at like the heartstrings and like they're a little bit more like vulnerable. and not in like the fun, funny way that I feel like we've really mastered at this point in like terms of like my artistry, but like things that I just kind of, it's like stream of consciousness almost in the studio. And then I like to keep those kind of untouched. I kind of like a more demo sounding thing. Again, producers hate that, but that's like the kind of stuff where I'm like, that's really, or other times there's like a magic in the studio that day.

52:04Like everyone is just like vibrating with some kind of like, there's just something there that like it's so fun it feels so good and like the song you're just like and then you hear like a potentially like technically better version and it just doesn't capture the same like there have been times where um where oak felder has um best vocal producer alive literally on earth on on the planet um but there have been also writer and producer overall

52:32Justin Tranter:but the vocal production is god dear. Unleavably good. Yeah. But he has like done something in the session that's like a certain drum pattern that isn't, what do you call that, quantized? Where it's not like, it's not like exactly like to the 100 % in line with the, it's not like this with the BPM. It's not like 100%. That's probably the way I'm saying it's not right. But it's like, it's not 100 % like in time. It's just been kind of like added in there in the moment. And then there've been times where he sends me, and I don't know that in the moment, but I love the song. And then he'll send me, this has happened on like three of the songs on this project then he'll send me um a version like a week or a month or whatever later and i'm like it sounds polished and mostly the same just like better but there's something about it that it doesn't have the same feeling anymore and the first time we couldn't figure it out until we figured out but then the second and third time that this happened he was like i know what the problem is because you've had a problem like this before where i make things like more perfect and like i quantize the drums and you're like no i like it anymore so now we like kind of know that's the problem so it just kind of depends but then there are other times where i'm like oh the song isn't finished until i go in for like my third vocal attempt and i like i've you know really like leaned into like trying to hit a note that i was a little bit too afraid to before like whatever it's like i think for me it's like i know when a song is done because i just like know when it's done which is so fucking annoying to everybody around me no but i mean because i'm also like i'll get like 17 mixes of something sometimes before i'm happy with it yeah but i think is you know was we just just turned in this album that we've made together you always like when you are asking for what you want because you're a woman in this society you always apologize every time and i'm like and you're like i don't know how to explain like no you're explaining it very very well and i just feel like i didn't go to like music school i don't like know the proper terms for things sometimes it's like oh i feel like i'm being so annoying i send like voice notes i'm like so like the thing about this little thing here is that this one noise it's like and i feel like it should be like i'm just like what the fuck am i even talking about and i just feel like there's like at least like two songs on this project where i feel like we went back like where you were like okay like i i'm like it's reached a point where after like this third mix i think it sounds great whatever but be like i'm sure that you're gonna hear something that like is just only like standing out to you and like there always is something like that but you have great ears and i think it's 99 of the time you're right and i think that But also we live in a world where like.

54:53Justin Tranter:Love to hear that. The artist for better or worse is in charge of marketing. Even though we wish that like you could market in the old school ways. The artist is, you're in charge whether we like it or not. So like if you're not obsessed, what's the point? The days of like the label forcing it down radio's throat. A single that the artist hates. And then it's a huge hit and the label can go, see, we told you. Those, or the producer saying, see, I told you. or the writer saying, those days are over. So it's like, we should always listen to the artists, but especially now, because if you are, if you, if it was, if it was an artist doesn't want to make 70 TikToks with the song, then it's over.

55:34It's not happening.

55:35Justin Tranter:It's, I mean, what I also love though too, is you are, the lyrics that you write are so human that like things should feel honest. Like on my for sure favorite song on the album, Summer of 16, it is so, First of all, your melodies in that are some of the best melodies I've ever heard in my life. And secondly, it is such a raw feeling of like romanticizing your teenage best friend or best friends, plural, that like it had to be handled so delicately. And you like in a positive way really fought for that production to be right. Which mainly kept take it, strip it back, please strip it back. I feel like we had a conversation about that where it was, we wrote that so towards kind of the end of our album writing process.

56:22We have, and I know that you've spoken about this on this podcast before, where it's like if you are not like in a small group of people kind of like working on a project together, then everyone always just wants to get like the single. And then you have a full record of just songs that are just like, it doesn't necessarily go together. They're fighting each other to be the best one. where I feel like we made every song but one on this project together. And so that really gave us the freedom and with only like three producers for the most part. And so that really gave us the freedom to just sit there and be like, okay, well, this song is -

56:57Justin Tranter:Fill in the gaps. It's special because it is like the way that we made this demo this day makes us all feel like a certain emotion that I think is just perfectly captured as is. And on that song, we did what? like four sessions after that song on that one thing, trying to like add drums and take away. And I was like, oh, like I don't like the drum kit that we use. And then eventually I was like, actually I just don't think I want drums. I think that we don't need. And so it sometimes takes, so it was like technically like maybe that first version that Sean sent that was like better and like more finished should have been good to go.

57:31But it's like, I never know when a song is finished until it just feels right. Like sometimes it requires a lot more assistance and sometimes it just like requires leaving it the fuck alone.

57:39Justin Tranter:Yep. Yeah, and I think that that's the fact that you, an artist should know that when a song is done or not, and you definitely do. We talked about my favorite song, Summer of 16. Let's talk about your favorite song, which is my second favorite song, Born to Lose. Yeah. You are the queen of self-deprecation. And what I find so special about Born to Lose is that it is deeply self-deprecating, but normally when you're being self-deprecating, it's like an up-tempo on like a bouncy melody. that is like a really self-deprecating piano anthem. How does it feel to, like, you're going to have to go on tour and at the top of your register just sing over and over, I'm Born to Lose.

58:24I actually went to text you about this because I, like, wanted to fight you in a way. Like, I was, like, so annoyed. I recently started doing vocal lessons again for the first time in years. So I haven't, like, toured in a long time, and I'm lazy, ultimately. And it's really easy to sing in the studio of course, because I just like can scream out my lungs and then just rest the next day. But of course, like now preparing to potentially like tour all this music. So let me start going to vocal lessons again. And, and yeah, I decided that it was time that we start like practicing each song to learn the proper like placement to sing them every night and not lose my voice.

59:02And I haven't attempted to sing Born to Lose since I recorded it. I've never attempted to to sing it all the way through until this day. And I was so confident in the birds. I was like, yeah. And I've got my little microphone set up with my vocal coach. And I had to, ooh, and I was like, ah! And I actually had to stop, and I was like, oh my God, I can't sing this song. But I was like, I can't sing this song, because I recorded this song. And I fucking sang the song, but I can't sing this song. And then I was like, I hate you and want to kill you, even though I also was like writing the melody.

59:37You wrote that melody. Yeah. But I was like, it's Justin's fault. Like how can I make it someone else's fault with my own? Just take it a whole step down.

59:44Justin Tranter:Chapel sings Good Luck Babe a whole step down. Doesn't she? Yeah. And she's talked about it in interviews. I do Fire and Gold a whole step down too. Classic banger. Fire and Gold truthers. How do you feel about her singing it a whole step down? You don't care. I don't know that they even knew until right now. You don't care. I feel like maybe like people who are also in music would be able to tell, but I feel like nobody else knows. No, take it down. Do not hurt yourself. But I was like, no! and I was like oh fuck but it also is like I'm like what the fuck like there's so many people who record these notes in the studio and then they sing them absolutely perfectly if not better live like how can I like why is that not me I think I can I just need to like practice a lot but also like I think because my vocal cord hemorrhage when I was younger like maybe there's just like a fear but it's like pushing too hard and so yeah I was like fuck like my favorite song ever and I can't sing it.

1:00:30Justin Tranter:Just take it a whole step down. It's fine. With the self-deprecation and like how does it I know why you do it. Like, well, what, how does it make you feel to say, it's literally called I'm Born to Lose.

1:00:49Justin Tranter:How, walk me through how, how, how you're going to be on stage. I just, I mean. Not the vocal, not the melody, the lyric. I really, I just, I don't feel like I've ever necessarily had like an artist persona. I say the same things to you in private for the most part that I'm saying now um that I say to my friends yeah like almost everything that I say to my friends that I say to really like anybody who asks I'm really like an open book I'm also not the kind of person where it's like people need to be like oh do you mind if I ask you about I know it might be a sensitive thing like it I don't I don't really find a lot of topics to be sensitive because I just I really am just like an open book So I've always been that way in my music too.

1:01:35I do think that this music, I think I've developed like as a songwriter. I think a lot of that is because of you because I didn't really believe in myself as a songwriter until you like really believed in me and told me that I had more talent than I thought. Because like I've also said to you before, I thought, what are the odds that I was kind of pushed into making like, like being like an actor or a singer or whatever. and then I actually had any kind of talent there. Like what are the odds that just because I could sing, like I could also write a song, like I just never really believed in myself until you started getting really excited about some of the melodies that I would have thrown away if you weren't in the room because I just like have a really hard time like figuring out what is good in that sense.

1:02:23But because I don't necessarily like know that, like I didn't like know that I was a great songwriter, I don't always feel like I'm going out of my way to be like, I'm going to be like songwritery about this. It's a lot of stream of consciousness. A lot of the kinds of things that I would say just in person to anybody. And I just don't really feel like a lot of things are really like that sacred. I feel like one of my favorite parts of being live is just like talking to people and connecting with them. And like, that's obviously like a very generic thing to say, but it's like, I really, really hate the like awkward, oh, what if we like walk on eggshells and we have these conversations that are very surface level and like whatever.

1:02:57I have a really hard time with that because I just don't really feel like that's, the way that I want to live my life. I'm very comfortable just being like, this is what I've been through and this is how I want to talk about it. And I do find a lot of humor in it. I think that I spent many years being really miserable about things that I felt like were forced upon me and things that I didn't want to do that I had to do and I hate my fucking life and I hate, and I actually eventually was like, no, but it's honestly funny. Like, it's honestly funny as fuck. It's so funny to me that like, I'm like, oh, like I didn't know I was depressed for five years and I just thought everything was totally, like, I'm just like, okay, like whatever.

1:03:33And I recognize also that if I hadn't had the success that I'd had at an earlier age, kind of like unintentionally, like not necessarily due to like my own desire and passion, whatever, like I wouldn't be in a place now where like I could be writing music and actually paying my bills kind of and like doing this as a job. And I just feel like the only way to properly tell the story of where I am now is to be very candid about all of the people that I've been before and all the versions of myself that exist. And so I don't really feel bad or, like, sad when I sing these things, even though they can be, like, depressing.

1:04:12I almost don't even think it is. I'm like, it's like, yes, it is, like, sad in theory to be like, oh, I'm born to lose. I was really successful, kind of, when I was 19. And now I just, like, what am I? I'm, like, struggling to get by sometimes. And, like, that's so weird and, like, difficult to grapple with. but I honestly think it's like, like that's just like the way that things work sometimes. It's like, you really have no control and I think it's funny. And I think it is just like, I like to invite people in by being like, if I tell you some of the worst shit that's ever happened to me and we can laugh about it, then if anything that like makes other people more comfortable and it, I feel like it's inviting and that's the kind of music I like to listen to and the kind of people that I like to talk to.

1:04:48Yeah. And I make jokes when I'm on stage. Like I'll be like, Oh, so technically this song is about like the worst day of my life, but like, LOL, let's dance. and I really mean it like I just think but I think that that has really come with time I went from being very angry about my life and feeling genuinely devastated when I would write some of these like songs or lyrics or poems or fucking whatever I was doing to being like it is devastating but that is kind of fun in a way

1:05:13Justin Tranter:yeah if that makes sense what is your favorite lyric on the album that we have not mentioned yet um I mean I I have like lyrics that I love because I think they're actually like, like really invoking more emotion. Like some of the lyrics in Summer 16, I think are just really, for some reason, like, like I miss you. Like, I wish you were here with me. Come over, like get stoned like we did before. Like that kind of shit. It's like not really like an eloquent lyric, but something about like just wanting to go. The truth of that. Just like the truth of just wanting to go back in time and just like smoke a joint with my friends.

1:05:53Like that just sounds like, but like back before I was scared of it and before I had any like real like fears of like losing those people and like moving forward with our lives in different ways. But I also love like, but I'm a star just like Madonna if she was drunk and poor. So I'm like, it's really hard for me to choose. I have a hard time. Like I don't know if I love like the more.

1:06:13Justin Tranter:Absurd or the more simple. Yeah. Yeah. But there was a lot. I think that we really had like a lot of great moments. I mean, the amount of times that we would shock ourselves and be like, we can't say this. And then, of course, we said it at least three times a song. Yeah. I don't know if there there was maybe one time we're like, OK, we actually can't say this. But I don't even know if there was. I feel like there was a time that we were close on whether or not we do it. But I feel like most of the time we just say the thing. Yeah. Like we just say the fucking thing. Because you normally say it and then we just make it rhyme.

1:06:49Justin Tranter:You say it in conversation and then we just make it rhyme. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like that's like, that's the way that I enjoy writing a song the most. And that is one of the reasons that I love writing music with you because obviously I think that you're a genius. But I also just have so much fun with you. Like I just think that we literally laugh and giggle and talk and chat. And then we have a song and it's just feels like, it just, it feels like, now I understand when people are like, oh, like I don't wait. If you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. Like fuck you first of all.

1:07:22But second of all, I kind of understand it a little bit now. Because I don't feel like I'm working when we're writing a song.

1:07:27Justin Tranter:No, when we write, it's not. Now you have to, like, go work. But I think probably a lot of people who work with you feel that way. Like, I just think that the energy that you bring to a session is unmatched from anyone that I've. And I really feel like I've written with fucking everybody. Oh, you've done the whole industry. Under the fucking sun. Yeah. By the time you were 19, you'd written with every fucking person in this business. Yeah, I've already, like, written a lot of them off. Oh, ew, weird man. Hate you. Thanks. Like, already. We asked this question of every single guest. what is the song that ruined your life?

1:07:56Justin Tranter:Meaning like when you were young, you heard this and you were like, oh fuck, I have to make music. Now it might be different because you were kind of forced into music from your parents. Yeah. What, is there a moment you can remember of a song, a performance that you were like, oh fuck, that's so cool. And now I'm going to ruin my life by being a musician. Yes, actually. it wasn't necessarily a song. Well, I guess I think that the only exception and really just Paramore and everything Hayley Williams. And then I saw, I was already like, I heard that song and I was like, oh, like it's over. Like it's actually over.

1:08:42This is the most beautiful fucking thing I've ever experienced. and I still think that's like one of my favorite songs of this day. Oh, it's a perfect song. It's just unbelievable. But then of course I just started getting into all of Paramore's music at that time. I would say I took a lot of inspiration but also then I saw Paramore live for the first time when I was like 14 or 15 maybe somewhere around there and that was, it was like yes the song and like that song brought me into more of their music and just like all that. I was like this is so fucking great But seeing them live, I think I also was like, I've never really felt, even when I was a kid, when I didn't even know that I would do this for a living, I never felt like I'd be like the diva on stage who has like backup dancers and I'm hitting these fucking, which love that down, that's not me.

1:09:28Like I can't, like I just, I can't pull off like a dance number. Like that's - But you're a rock star. Yeah, like it's just, it's not, it's not gonna happen. And so I think when I was younger, there was a lot of that with like the young, like pop girls and they were all fucking great at it and they were like doing the dances and they had like the fucking, the big props and the screens and I was always just like, I just feel like, even though I wasn't thinking that that was gonna be my career, I just felt like I didn't relate to that as much. And it seemed really like out of reach for me. And then I saw Paramore Live and I just saw Hayley, I mean, of course, like the whole band is there, but Hayley Williams is such a fucking star.

1:10:11Like I just, she just sucked me in. I was like, this is so entertaining and so brilliant. And I feel so connected to her from like way the fuck back in the nosebleeds. And she's got no dancer. She's got, I mean, at one point, like they're doing tricks where they're like the fuck, they're flipping over each other with their guitars and whatever, but like that was just the band and just Haley at the front. And she never had any like real choreography. She had no backup dancers. There wasn't even much on the screen. and I was completely sold. And I was more entertained than I had been by almost any other show I'd ever seen.

1:10:45And I was like, oh, if that's a way that you can do this, then that makes me want to do this.

1:10:50Justin Tranter:Yeah, I didn't know that about you actually, but it makes perfect sense. Like even back when we made the EP with Feel Something, when people would ask about you, I was like, well, she's a rock star. Like she's fronting a rock band. She's just, but it's not a band, it's B. Miller. Yeah. And that now it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and much to the chagrin of my entire team, I'm like, I won't perform without a band. And they're like, oh, but the expense of that. And I'm like, guess what? We just have to do it because me with the track and a little, no one, I don't even think my mother would buy a ticket to see that.

1:11:22I'm actually not kidding. I actually think Kim would be keeping her money in her wallet. I don't think I could sell that to anyone. Because I just feel like the rest of what I'm doing is just like, like I said, it's not really a persona. It's just like, that's the way. And it's like, yeah, I'll fucking hit some dance moves on the dance floor. But like no one, that is very much for free. That Davey Wayne's

1:11:42Justin Tranter:trying to get attention. That's very much for free. Sweating in my leather pants. 12 drinks in. Like we're not, like no one is giving me their money to see that. And so for a long time I was like, that's what a pop star is. Right. But I had never seen a rock star do a kind of pop song. Show. A pop show until I saw Paramore. And I was like, now I'm in. I love it. You ready to play gag or drag? Yes. Okay, great. I loved when you did this with Wendy and you had to explain to her. Yeah. Like gag is like, okay, like we love it. Gag is you love it. We love it. Drag, you hate it. Drag, you hate it. But I feel like she locked in.

1:12:19Justin Tranter:She locked in. I mean, Wendy has a lot of gay friends. She understands. But I did, you were like letting her know. Well, by gay lingo in like the, in when Wendy was DJing in the 70s, 80s, gag was like a bad thing. Yeah. But now it's transformed into a good thing. Yes. Okay. So gag is good. Drag is bad. gag or drag leaving a party without saying goodbye? Gag. Gag. Gag. I actually only do that. Yeah. Actually, if I say goodbye to you before leaving a party, just know I don't remember it. Oh. That too. I either hate you, that's a good point, where I'm just trying to be like, oh, bye, it's so good to see you.

1:12:57Or I'm absolutely obliterated blacked out. I have been told by people, like, oh, like I'll host a party and they'll be like, oh, like, I'm glad that we like got, like got to say body on my way out. Like I felt bad for leaving early. And I'm like, girl, what? I don't fucking remember that at all. So yeah, big fan.

1:13:16Justin Tranter:You know, Darian who lives here and does your makeup quite frequently. Darian will leave parties at her own home with people that she invited. Gag! She'll just walk upstairs and then I'm like... Like two floors away. Yeah, and I'm just like, well, now I'm just here with Darian's friends. Like, someone How soon in? Is it like 25 minutes in? You're like, and this is your party now, Justin. She'll do, if it's my party, she'll leave 12 minutes in. Just make an appearance. If it's her friends, she gives them at least an hour and a half. Okay. And then leaves, but I'm like, well, someone has to walk them out and lock the door.

1:13:54Justin Tranter:So I guess that's me now. If anything, she's the people's princess. She's like, okay, my friends are having fun. I'm over it. I'm no longer having fun, but who am I to stop them from enjoying their night? I'm with it. So now it's my responsibility. Okay, gag or drag, people who text, call me with no context. Ugh, drag. That is satanic. Actually, I might block you. I might revoke your access to me permanently if you do that shit. I fucking hate that. I've also had people be like, we need to talk or like call me. And then they don't respond for like an hour or two. And then it was something chill.

1:14:34Then they get out of whatever they're doing and they're like, oh, sorry. I just wanted to know like what our plans are for like next Saturday. And I'm like, I actually hope that you know that you have taken years off of my already decaying body because of the amount of stress that that caused me. Like that is fucked up. Like, ew.

1:14:53Justin Tranter:Gag or drag me telling you that something you love in a song is the worst part of a song. Has that ever happened? Morgan wrote this question. I don't. I just want it to know. I don't know. I mean, I would actually say that's a gag. I actually would say like. You would love it. Yeah. I actually feel like I would, if I was like, Justin, this is it. And you were like, no, Diva, it's actually not. It's trash. I hate it. it's actually the worst thing that you've maybe ever come up with. I think I would live for that. I think I'd be cracking the fuck up. I think that that would honestly be so fun. Yeah.

1:15:27I don't know that I've ever brought you an idea where you're like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard. No. You may have been like, not your best, but like we're working towards the better thing. Yeah. But I actually think that would be gag. I'd be like, okay, out of everyone, like I think if like some random suit told me that, I'd be like, kill yourself.

1:15:42Justin Tranter:Right. But if you told me that, I'd be like, oh, well, I just, I trust you completely. Yeah. So you must be right. And that's so funny. And I'm laughing at myself that I thought this was a good idea. And then we probably would still put it in the song. Yeah. Because then it would be a joke. You'd be like, okay, like now we're just gonna put it in there and it's bad, but like we love it. It's a bit, yeah. Gag or drag sleeping with a TV on? Uh, drag. Really? I can't do it. I mean, I can't do it either. Why can't you do it? I just don't, it's, there's no, I don't watch TV in my room. That just seems crazy to me.

1:16:11Oh, well I do because I have roommates. So it's like, it's the only place that I can really be like alone is watching TV in my room if I'm in the living room. Like sometimes I'm in the mood to chat and other times I'm like, no, I just want to watch my movie and like you shut the fuck up. But I can't fall asleep if there's like an ounce of light. Like there's like a little light on the TV in my room that sometimes if I'm having like a really bad night where I'm like really restless, I have to get up and put something in front of it to cover it because I can't sleep. And also people who like fall asleep while they're like watching a movie on the couch, I've never done that because I need to turn it off.

1:16:41If I miss even one line that someone says in something, I need to go back. I feel like I need 100 % context.

1:16:47Justin Tranter:Do you put captions on? Of course. Yeah, captions on. I can't hear without my captions. It's not happening. It's not happening. The show never played. But I can't fall. It's like I need to turn it off so that when I wake up and want to potentially keep watching it, I know exactly where I left off. Whereas like you fall asleep and then you're like, oh, the fucking credits are rolling. You're like, what the fuck is going on if you ever want to finish it? Like then you have to like go back and figure out where you fell asleep. Like I just can't. All that. I just can't. Yeah. Like it's too light. it's too loud and also I just feel like I can't miss a single thing yeah agreed uh gag or drag sharing your location with friends indefinitely um gag yeah I think that like people that I don't even fucking hang out with anymore have my location there are people who I don't they might show up here I don't know I I will go to like I don't know like a music festival with like a friend's friend's girlfriend's sister yeah and I will share my location with the whole group because we're like oh we're at a festival our location shitty or like whatever.

1:17:45And so we all know each other. And then I, those people saw my location. I might still have theirs. Every once in a while I go through my location thing. I'm like scrolling this much.

1:17:52Justin Tranter:How many people do you think have your location? I would say like 30. Okay. That's not crazy. Like probably right now, or maybe I just think it's 30 because I have about 30, but I think that it could be more. Yeah. Cause I never go back and unshare. Like there are like people I'm no longer friends with that I hope don't like hate me so much that they want to like stalk and murder me. And they still have my location. I'm just like, just, you know, hoping and praying that that works out for me. I can think of a few that we maybe should take off just in case. Okay. Gag or drag couples who post every argument online?

1:18:28Gag.

1:18:29Justin Tranter:Gag, I love it. I love it. I mean, terrible for their life? So terrible. Great for us. I think that just as like a general rule, if your relationship is a big part of your fame, success, social media presence, content creation. You owe us. You need to let me fucking in on why you broke up. I want you to sit down and fucking sit down in front of the camera, both of you, side by side, post breakup. I don't even care if you put a fucking wall between you. Sit down together and you sit there for 10 minutes and you tell me every detail of what happened. I agree. Go on a live and let me ask questions.

1:19:04I just think if you... Pee Miller asks. Yeah, I'm like, if you... I just think, also though, when random celebrities break up, sometimes I'm like, I wish I could get the tea on that. But I think if your whole thing is like, and I make content with my partner and you don't tell me exactly, oh, it's just like a really private thing between, fuck you. Yeah. Like actually fuck you. Nothing else is private. It was not private when you were like doing all these pranks on each other in your living room. Let me know what the fuck happened. Like, I honestly, like, I can't say that I'm like standing James Charles by any means, but when that whole fucking drama was happening with bi sister, like friendship breakup, I was sat the whole time.

1:19:38Yeah. I didn't follow him. I didn't care about what he was doing. don't give a shit I was sad

1:19:42Justin Tranter:the breakup iconic it was just so good what was her name Tati Tati slay fuck never saw her face never saw her fucking content before that never gave a shit about James Charles still don't to this day I lived for that like I was on tour in the back of my bus on vocal rest like just fucking gagged loved it and that's how I think it should always be I agree gag or drag fans asking artists to return to the sound they made as teenagers teenagers oh okay more this was a loaded question morgan this is yeah loaded question i obviously say drag because i'm like let me like express myself like are you who you were at 15 no but at the same time as a fan get back there i'm kind of like okay like get back in the studio and like i think i think it depends i think age plays a factor it's like okay like if you loved this artist when you were a teenager and they were a teenager like they were obviously making some teenage shit especially if they were like under a label that was like really pushing them to make like very like child leaning stuff.

1:20:47But like then like they grow older and it's like now you're both adults and maybe you like different things. And so then I think it's a little bit like, OK, like we're not going back to like making teeny bop or like fucking whatever. I do say, though, as a fan, like as an artist, I'm like, boo, like shut the fuck up. I'm going to make what I want. but as a fan of music I really hate when I'm like I have been streaming your music and following you and fucking paying for your concerts and whatever for years because you were making this kind of thing and now you're randomly like fucking jumping ship to make like God forbid it's country I'm like how fucking dare you like actually how dare you do this I just can't even fucking believe it you better go back there or you've lost my business so it's like I get it from both but also a lot of times when I feel that way as a fan, it's not people that I loved as a teenager who are now making adult music.

1:21:35It's like people that I've loved as an adult when they were also an adult. And then they just like went in a totally different direction from like why they became famous.

1:21:42Justin Tranter:You're a nuanced woman. You can see both sides of the argument. Yep. Gag or drag people who clap when the plane lands. Okay, like drag is like, that's like, I hate white people. But gag, because I'm like, that's so funny. Like it makes me laugh because I'm like, you're so embarrassing. and they're just like, they're so happy and they feel like they're doing a really good deed. And I think that's honestly cute. Yeah, they're applauding the pilot. And like, oh, like that's so funny. Yeah. Like the pilot doesn't care. And also like, did they think they were gonna die? Yeah. And now they're super happy.

1:22:15They're like, you're alive.

1:22:16Justin Tranter:Yeah. Like that, I think it's kind of funny. I agree. Gag or drag canceling plans? Gag. Gag. I do that all the time. Yeah. It's rare that I show up to a plan that I made more than like 48 hours ago. Yep. Yep. Yeah, gag or drag turning a private breakdown into release week content. Ooh, good question, Morgan. Um, gag. Yeah, gag, sell that fucking song. Yeah, sell that fucking song. Sell that fucking song. We support you. We support you. We are there and I'm seeing you. We are all trying to get views. Yes. We have a microphone in our face right now. Gag or drag deleting a text and pretending you never sent it.

1:22:56Drag.

1:22:57Justin Tranter:Drag. I just wouldn't do that. I just own it. If I said or done something embarrassing or something I've come to regret, I just let it linger there. I just feel like that's what I deserve. It's like, you know, every once in a while someone like points out my bad behavior or something I did to like hurt their feelings. And like at first I'm very defensive, but I usually will come around and be like, okay, now I've spent some time thinking about this and you're right and I'm sorry. And so I feel like, you know, a text, or like if I, like, I feel like if a text I've sent that's kind of bitchy, let's leave it there.

1:23:29Like that's my shame that I have to live with. I like, sometimes if I'm feeling too good about myself, I can go back and look at that and remind myself like the kind of piece of shit that I really am. But also it's like, if I send something embarrassing, like, like, like a fucking text at like 2am being like, look at you up. Like, and I don't get a response. I need to live with that. I need to deal with the fact that I've done that.

1:23:47Justin Tranter:Yeah. Gag or drag a 27 year old artist being described as making a comeback.

1:23:57Justin Tranter:Morgan, you're, you're hateful. Morgan. I'm going to get up and leave. That is so beyond drag that I like can't even. It's like it's like when all these artists who've been making music for 15 years get nominated as best new artist. Right. I'm like oh you're new because you're new to like a few more people that now gave you a bigger career but you've been playing music for 15 years. That's just like fuck like that's such a bummer so I would say drag drag drag full circle okay full circle moments what do you feel now as this new album has less collaborators than any of your albums in the past you're a better songwriter than you've ever been you're a grown-ass woman um what are you most excited about for your fans to learn about you from this album to uh love about you from this album to hate about you from this album wow i i mean i've just been so excited about this release and like this next stage for so long i don't even know if i can like narrow down exactly what i'm the most excited about.

1:25:20I think this is like a surface level answer. What I'm really the most excited about is to prove that like I am still making music. I get a lot of comments on my social media that's like, OMG, you're like still alive. Oh, I thought that something happened to you tragically like 10 years ago. But even though I thought it was tragic, I didn't care enough to like research or look into it because I was never that big of a fan. So I feel like there's like a lot of that. So like my ego is kind of like, I'm really excited for people to like know that I am still first of all alive and second of all still um have some semblance of a career um and i'm just like i i am also excited that i am with a new label now with republic and um i like worship wendy goldstein as we both do um and she's one of our one of our top you episodes yeah yeah she's she's a podcast star now she really is oh no the like no like she is a star the amount of

1:26:14Justin Tranter:text messages I got about that episode more than any episode we've done. And I love that you got her to do it and she hadn't really done something like that before. She was so happy. She was born for it. She was meant for it. And she doesn't even know. She's too cool. But I'm really just so grateful that you have that relationship with Wendy and that she I don't think would just tell you that she likes something because of that relationship. No. And she genuinely seems to really believe in the project and like everyone at that label, like I think it's really exciting to be doing something new with a label that I don't have to argue with all the time to the point where even my fans will be excited about this because they had issues with people I've worked with in the past where they'd be tweeting themselves being like, you suck and you're ruining your career, which I thought was honestly really, really punt.

1:27:02I do love when fans harass labels.

1:27:04Justin Tranter:I think it's really funny. I thought that was so funny. Like they would post something for like my birthday and my fans would be like, I am surprised you fucking know that you have to Google it today, bitch. Like it was so fucking funny. I was living for that so I'm excited that they're gonna get new shit from like um a label that I really hope that they will like that I'm working with a lot more um and I don't feel like I'm excited to say like oh like they're gonna get to know me on a deeper level because I do really feel like I've always just been honest about where I am in life but I do feel like there has been a lot of growth um like personal growth and like songwriting growth that I've experienced since the last time I put out, I haven't put out an album in 10 years.

1:27:42Fuck. Because when we did Elated, it was an EP. It was an EP. I haven't put out an album. They've been waiting for B. Miller 3 for 10 years.

1:27:49Justin Tranter:I always love when they say BM3. BM3. Balm movement. Number three. And sometimes I have that money in a day. So I'm like, girl, how are you like in my house, in my head, you know what I'm up to. But I - Clip it. Clip it. Clip it. Unfortunately, I never grew out of potty humor. I will always laugh when someone farts. I'm just really excited for them to see, like my fans to see like where I'm at now. Cause again, like I've always been honest about where I'm at, but where I'm at now, I think I'm like, I know myself a lot better now. Yeah. I'm a lot older now than I was the last time I put out an album.

1:28:23And I'm a lot more comfortable in my ability and in myself. And so I'm really excited to see if, I feel like I've always, I kind of very like close bond with my fans. I think that you just kind of naturally have that on a bigger level when you grow up together. You start making music when you're a kid and your fans are kids and you literally experience life side by side. I think that's really special. And so I'm just really hoping that the ones who have grown with me this entire time feel like we're still growing together and that they still relate to my experiences that I'm having now.

1:29:04Justin Tranter:I mean, any of the fans that are as demented as you are, they're going to be... And they must be if they suck around this long. Like, they're going to love it. If they're still here. Like, they're still here. And I just, like, I think that if they're still here, like, they're in it for the long haul. Yeah. And I hope that we disturb a few people. Yeah. And I hope that... It's rock and roll, baby. It's just fucking great. What, last question, Promise, what piece of advice would you... It can be about collaboration, but also because you got into this business so young, It can also just be about the business as a whole.

1:29:37Justin Tranter:We are lucky enough to have lots of people watching this podcast who are trying to figure out how to get into multiple different parts of the entertainment business, but music business specifically. What advice would you give a minor specifically? As someone who survived the music business as a minor and you're still here kicking ass as an adult, what piece of advice would you give them? Like if they were trying to do the same thing? Yeah, at the same age. I would say, honestly, like I don't want to do some bullshit, like just believe in yourself. I would say,

1:30:13I think it's a really beautiful thing to follow your passion and like pursue your dream. I think that when you're really young, a lot of times it's hard to see. And I don't say this as like, I'm an adult and I'm smarter than you. I'm saying this as someone who can really remember what it felt like to be like 15 and think that I knew exactly like who I was and what I wanted to be and what my future was going to look like. And I of course didn't. And I think it's really important that you follow that dream and, and, and nurture that passion while also recognizing and like really trying to let it sink in that like the way that you feel about what you're doing now will change when you look back on it.

1:31:01And also be prepared for if you actually have success and that's great. You're going to have like a love-hate relationship with that success when you're an adult. Whereas like I look back personally now and I feel you're gonna miss out on, like I missed out on a lot of like, quote unquote, normal experiences. And I think that if you want to follow in those footsteps, I feel like I actually made it out the other side pretty okay.

1:31:28Justin Tranter:Yeah, you're pretty fucking awesome. And I will say, thanks. I will say, I just think that you should be prepared to mourn the things that you missed out on without realizing that you were missing out on them. While also realizing that because you missed out on those things, you are able to live the life that you hopefully love now. So it is like a, it is a real balance, but it obviously is possible. and it will, you know, create a space where you can have a closer relationship with your fans because I think it's really, really nice for other 15-year-olds, let's say, to have to listen to an artist who's writing songs from the perspective of a 15-year-old.

1:32:07I think that's really, really great for other people your age when they're all like going through something together like that. But yeah, it's possible. It's also possible to like make it through and still be like mentally stable to a point. and that, yeah, you just have to recognize you will have to sacrifice things, as I think everyone does, to, like, really achieve their dreams. But you'll have to sacrifice things that also will, like, lead you to not fully relate to your peers when you're older, too. But then you'll find, like, other people that you will relate to, in a way, and you'll laugh about how your child stars and how that's really cringe and a little bit devastating, but also kind of fun.

1:32:44Yeah, I love it. And you can do it. Just know that, you know, it is beautiful, but it's also, it's hard. Yeah, I love it.

1:32:52Justin Tranter:Everybody, Bea Miller! Justina Trentino! Justina Trentino! Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you then.