Bella Kay + Alexis Idarose Kesselman | “iloveitiloveitiloveit”+ How Great Collaborators Disagree

24:20That's a happy song.

24:22Justin Tranter:Oh, I think it's fierce as fuck. Right. And I think that it's like, cause it's that self-awareness makes you like, well, so it might be a little dark, but I know what I'm doing. I'm in control of this. Yeah. There's a release that happens when you make something like you have a emotional release. And so, yeah, as far as perception, I don't know, people are always going to like and dislike certain things. Sometimes you write the song that you think people are going to be obsessed with and no one hears it. And then sometimes it's like, that was a random one-off session and that's the song that does really well.

24:53So I, I listen a little bit, but I don't take the outside perception and let it truly influence what I'm writing.

25:02Justin Tranter:Yeah. We've talked privately about how you will walk into a lot of sessions and like when you pull your computer out or start playing an instrument, people are like, what are you doing? You're a woman. You should only be writing. You shouldn't be producing. Tomato, tomato. And it shouldn't have surprised me when you told me that story because our business is trash. But it did surprise me because at least in my circle, we all know you as a producer as well as a songwriter. How did it feel to find a collaborator who really sees you as a producer. Yeah. I mean, I think it has been so amazing to work with Bella because there's never been a question of like where our line ends and begins.

25:51It's like, what's good for the song.

25:53Justin Tranter:Yeah. And so, you know, I, I, as I've come up in this industry, I think it's just like less normal. So, you know, I was working at different studios where I wasn't at the desk and people knew me for one ballad that I co-wrote. And so it was a journey to prove myself as a producer. And then with the extra level of like, I am a woman. And so people are just not as used to me pulling out my computer and being like, can I send you a synth that would work really well? And I'm also a songwriter. I don't want to say first, but I grew up writing songs. That was my thing. And then producing was born from that.

26:30So it's very difficult in the room for me to turn off being a songwriter. and I just feel like the song comes first, whatever that means. So if the production is really important that day, then I'm focusing on the production. But like if we need to figure out this chorus, my producer brain is off and I'm working on the chorus and I'm figuring out lyrics. And so, yeah, I think with Bella, I just felt very valued on both sides. And there were also moments where she wrote an amazing chorus. And so I was producer that day. and um or she's writing the verse herself and I may suggest a line or two and she goes okay maybe and then I'm like okay I'll just work on the synthesizer today um and then she pulls out an amazing verse and I'm like okay cool yeah maybe my word is in there but um no it depended on the song but yeah I just felt really valued in the room with Bella and it wasn't a matter of like oh you're it was just it just was we're making this together yeah how do you know when to be like

27:28Justin Tranter:Like, I don't care what the math says or what traditional song structure says. This is fucking right for me. How do you know when to put your foot down? I think this has definitely been a journey for me. I think at first I just genuinely didn't know it was right. And so I was like, this is what I did. And sometimes Alexis would be like, what? She'd be like, it's the same melody the entire time. What if we did a different note? And I feel like recently I've kind of gotten, tried to unlearn the things that I've learned in the past couple of months. Cause now I'm very like verse pre course. And then verse pre course bridge outro.

28:05Like that is what it is. And I'm trying to kind of like relearn the things that I didn't know. And then kind of like mix it all together. Cause I think it's important to like have structure and know the things so you can know when to break the rules. Yeah. You got to know the rules so you can break them.

28:22Justin Tranter:Yeah. But yeah, it's been a journey of learning and figuring out how I want to be as a writer. Yeah. How do you, as producer, co-writer, how do you nurture and make sure that like she's staying true to herself as she learns everything? I think she has such a strong gut and she knows when she likes or doesn't like something. And so, and I think that's why we work well because we both have those instincts. And a lot of times we agree when there's a shift or when we should do something that's like a little bit more the normal structure. But I think not in her learning all these things. I also don't want her to like lose the magic of what she does.

29:04Justin Tranter:And why people love you. Yeah. Yeah. And so that is what's interesting in, you know, when she brings something in, there's something really naturally Bella about it. And my job is to work around that and say, like, maybe we should do this thing. But then to almost question my own instinct a little bit and be like, oh, but maybe it's actually cooler if we don't do this thing. And finding the balance between all of that. I find that every day. Yeah. I'm almost always the oldest person in the room. And I have like a geeky degree in songwriting and all these things that I love. but also know that some of my best songs are because there was a co-writer who was much younger, much more emotional than me and didn't know these rules.

29:51Justin Tranter:And they just like plowed through and I like quickly as I could edited it, like did the best editing I could in this very fast process. And I have to remind myself all the time of like let, especially if the artist is a proper fucking writer, let it happen. and then like clean it up wherever I possibly can. But it is, it is these like, especially if you can geek out about structure and all that stuff, it gets so fun, but sometimes you have to realize that's not always the right choice for the artist. And when Bella, like I remember on our fourth or fifth session, like when we started to really value our relationship, Bella was saying things to me like, I feel like with you, you know, I'm leaving with a song that feels like mine.

30:35And so then I went back to myself and be like, okay, what am I doing that's letting her feel like that? And how do I make sure to continue to let her feel like that and not, you know, start to, even as we get more honest with each other, to still like be honest, but also allow her to have the space to like feel like she's leaving with Bella K songs.

30:55Justin Tranter:Yeah. Hello, my little unfamous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, Lil Miss algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it. So if you follow this podcast, what do the old school YouTubers say? Like, subscribe, and follow. If you do that for me, then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. Was there a song that you guys did together that one of you had to convince the other one it was worthy to see the light of day?

31:44Oh, yes. We have money. Yeah, you go first. We're always fighting about stuff. We fight a lot. I would say Blur is the first one that comes to mind. Blur is crazy. We started that, I think it was like, what was it, like an R &B pop song? Yeah. It was crazy. It was like a splice sample. It's like now a rock song. But we started it as a sample and I was teaching Bella about like melody passes because. Oh, yeah.

32:14Justin Tranter:For anyone listening who doesn't know it, explain a melody pass. A melody pass is basically when you have a beat or something down and instead of coming up with the melody before and then recording it, you hop on the mic and you sing passes or sing versions of melodies. And then you afterwards go and edit that and find what may be the melody through those like experimentations. Freestyles. Freestyles. That's much better than what I said. We're, we're just helping each other. Collaborating. If you will. On the podcast. On the podcast. So I, yeah, I had Bella hop on the mic and just try some things and I don't, I don't remember exactly what it was that felt exciting but we found something in there yeah and then I took out the electric guitar and yeah we left that day I think we had like I remember we made another song that day but that day we had the chorus and I think we only had the first half we had the first verse in the chorus and I went home and I literally listened to it a thousand times and I just was like wait you did yeah the first the first pass that you sent me and then I was like okay like we have to finish this because it's gonna be my favorite I know I don't think that's true no it's true and then because I remember I remember being in my hotel and being like no but that might have been after because okay I think the first day we made it we're fighting it's happening I think the first day we made it you we hadn't found the word blur sure and then sure bitch keep talking go ahead go ahead this is so classic and then you left and i remember i think like figuring out something and then the next day you came in okay okay maybe i'm thinking about the second you're thinking about the second day because you came in and i was like wait i think this thing is cool like i actually think there's something here and then you hated it and then i hated it so at first she had to convince me and then i had to convince her Then we finished Blur and it's awesome, but I don't know.

34:23It just like, to me was whatever. And then Bella's like, this is my favorite song on the album. And I was like.

34:28Justin Tranter:So how do you get through this? How do you get through these disagreements and still be great collaborators and friends and not a real fight? Ooh. I mean, they're always real fights. Are they real fights? No. Oh. I was like, ooh. People can learn from that. People can learn. It's the truth. no we just like take a second because I think we're both very fast in our decision making and so like Bella will text me I like this or I don't like this and I'll text back something but then like I don't know in a few days we'll probably agree like I think we always end up agreeing with each other it just takes us a second and we take a moment to understand why the other person feels that way and usually we're like driving around LA and like listening to the songs in my car and And, you know, Bella's like, I told you this is, I'm like, wait, this is good.

35:16She's like, I told you. We've had that conversation 10 times.

35:19Justin Tranter:Are you the type of artist who the most recent song is always your favorite song? No, my God. Oh, really? No, no, no, no, no. Oh, good for you. I think like sometimes I always like have one. I always have like three that I'm like, this is my, like, this is my favorite. And then like when I think in the process of finishing the album, it was really like, okay, what are the moments on the beats we're missing on the album? And like, whatever, da, da, da. And so I was trying to kind of like fill these holes that I felt were there. And it would, those were kind of the hardest songs to make. Cause I'd be like, okay, this is what I want, but it's not what I want.

35:52Justin Tranter:Right. And so like, it sounds like what I want, but it doesn't feel like what should be there. Yeah. And then I would like finally find a song that would fit that spot. And then I would listen to it a hundred times, but it wouldn't, it still wouldn't be my favorite song. But I'd be like, I really love this song. But that's, that's very impressive that at this very young age, you can have that bird's eye view. Most are, and some of the greatest artists of all time. This is not a cut. The last song they wrote is, managers in the room, I know you can back me up on this. The last song that artists writes very often is their favorite song.

36:25Justin Tranter:And we all have to just go, let's just wait a month. Because this song is not good. Then they will stop being obsessed. So the fact that you can already have that bird's eye view is very impressive. Yeah. And makes your job a lot easier. Yeah, I think Bella would have favorites from like the beginning. And then other really exciting moments were when she would pull out a song that she had said, like, I don't like the song. We were like, okay, let's put this away. And then she would come back to it. and I think Stop is like the best example of that song. We had made it in my childhood home in Florida and again over like this really random loop that is not even in the song, but you know, it was so fun to make and it was not the sound of the album at all.

37:14But again, like your influences, like we wanted to try to hit the Ariana thing and like Rihanna.

37:21Justin Tranter:What is Arianator? Is that what the Zanza calls it? I'm just like a big pop girl. I love anything pop. And especially when I was younger, I would listen to like, Dangerous Woman album was my thing. Sweetener. Like, I just loved it all. But yeah. I always love hanging out with young people, which is every day of my life. That's what I do for a living. And you mentioned like, oh, Dangerous Woman when I was young, when I was a child. When I was born. Was a tiny baby child. And I'm like, oh yeah, I was like in my mid thirties. Morgan, I don't know if you heard this. I think you were peeing. Morgan is a Bella K super fan.

37:52Wait, oh my God. I love your music. Yeah. That's amazing.

37:55Justin Tranter:When the algorithm did the right thing, Spotify suggested to Morgan nine months ago. I think you would love Bella Kay. Yeah, and I thought I was wrong at first. Who is this? Weird vibe. The initial sounds that I heard, I was like, this isn't what I typically would immediately gravitate to. But I think through your songwriting, you display a really high level of emotional intelligence. And you're really raw in the feeling, but can zoom out. and then articulate the tension between like what's happening, what you feel. And like there's something with the like wanting something or someone so badly, but then also kind of leaning into like the self-sabotage of whether it's good or bad for you and articulating it in a way where like so many people can relate to it and be like, that's not what I thought I was feeling.

38:47But you've said it in such a way that like there's like some sort of reprieve as a listener listening to it.

38:53Justin Tranter:Yeah. Yeah. With Stop Morgan, you said, oh, you just want to know what came first, how that song started. What was the main inspiration of that song? Great cue. You want to tell it? No, no, you please. Okay. Basically, we were writing a lot about a certain feeling and it was. What feeling? A feeling of a crush, feeling of liking. And so. Apologies. Apologies. Apologies for having feelings about, especially about liking somebody. Yeah, corny. Corny. It's the worst. Whenever it happens to me, I'm like, God, you're way too involved for this. I can't believe my brain can still do this. So, yeah. And so that was, I was trying to get us to write not about this.

39:44I was like, we really need to move on. But that wasn't happening. And so, so basically I, I mean, I think you were writing, you were like freestyling. I was working the beat a little. You were freestyling some verses that were like what you were feeling. And then I was like, what if the chorus is like, I should stop feeling this. This is, this is, I should stop talking about this. This is, I'm being annoying. She was annoying. Okay. All right. But anyways, I was like, what have you stopped? And then I think that was kind of the impetus of like, wait, that's kind of funny that, you know, I'm like my friends.

40:26What's the line? Tell it to my friends. They're so sick of my shit. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of the vibes for stop.

40:31Justin Tranter:I love how real that is of like, I have to stop writing about this. But you don't want to say that because I have to stop talking about this. Which is also true. It's the same thing. What happened with the crush? It's a shenanigans. shenanigans that's what i've learned no nothing nothing not worth i deserve better i mean that's the thing about it is we always do but then we just keep fucking writing songs yeah and then it's like you deserve better but then also if you got better we wouldn't have the songs exactly no we need that i know so i kind of gotta like stay yeah it is i always find it like when i was a super fan when i was young and I really only ever care about women writing songs.

41:21Justin Tranter:I think men singing is so cringe. Like this isn't for you. You have everything else. Please leave songs to us, you know? Totally. And always when I was young, like the older that these women I was obsessed with would get, I just couldn't relate. And now I'm like, oh, it's because they were like finding peace. They were like in a happy relationship. They were like starting families and evolving. And I was still 17 and being like, no. Why aren't you upset anymore? Yeah, what's going on? I need to hear songs only about how you want to kill everyone you've ever met. And that is what I'm feeling. Keep singing about it.

42:06Justin Tranter:Keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Morgan, are there any other songs? Our little super fan over there, Morgan, any other songs you want to know details about? Oh, I just love your new girlfriend. I thought that was such like a cunt. I just thought that was such a fierce, cunty little song. And like listening to it, I was like, okay, she's not jealous of the new girl for dating the ex. She's actually jealous of the ex because that new one is the type. And actually, I'm going to fuck your new girlfriend. Like that was so fierce when I heard that. I was like, oh, my God. So, Bella, tell us the story. I feel like it should be known.

42:43like and obviously now I am even worse about this but when I was first like had the opportunity to put out songs I was like I'm going to be a demon like the worst things I can say and like get away with and I like I would ever had dated this guy and he like had a new girlfriend and I was like I was like oh my gosh she's so pretty but I wasn't even like oh like oh she's so pretty I'm so angry and jealous whatever I just was like I bet she would date me if I asked all I have to do is ask All I have to do is give her a call. That song can't hurt. But yeah, I mean, that one I wrote all by myself. I was just like in my room.

43:21I still actually, that is one of the songs from my early days that I still think is pretty fun, fun vibe. But yeah, I just kind of was writing about something that happened to me and it came out.

43:36Justin Tranter:What, when you're writing about such personal things and that involve other people in your life. Yeah. Do you have like a threshold of like, okay, this is getting too personal and it involves other people or is everything on the table? I would like to say everything's on the table. I feel like I don't know yet in terms of like if I was, because I think if I was dating somebody and then like everybody knew I was dating them, that is like something that I think actually I would feel a little weird about. Yeah. But that hasn't happened yet. So we're good. We're good. Until they really fuck you over.

44:10Justin Tranter:Until we break up. It's all back on the table. On the table. What was on the album, what was the, for any production geeks listening, for you guys, what was the most, like, the hardest song to crack or the most fun song? Just any sort of, like, production geekiness that we can get into really quick before we move on. You said you know. It's got to be karaoke. Oh, yeah. Karaoke was a mess. And I think it still came out a mess, but I love it. You went on live yesterday and played. Oh, you watched that? I was on the plane for five hours. Things came up. The Wi-Fi was good enough on the plane to catch a live?

44:51Justin Tranter:Delta Wi-Fi. Delta Wi-Fi is pristine. We had a different verse. Well, okay, so something we were like for chords. I would sometimes try to push Bella into like some different chord lanes. And then I realized like there is something that Bella does really amazing, which is write amazing songs over not too many chords. And I didn't want to like push on that. Stevie Nicks, most of those life-changing songs, two chords. Exactly. And like, it just felt like I know that Bella liked when it was certain things. And so I wanted to honor that. But my thought was like, okay, what's another thing we can change that's kind of fun?

45:31And in karaoke, we slow down tempo. I was like, what? Maybe that would be a cool thing.

45:36Justin Tranter:Yes, yes, yes. So it was like trying to be a little experimental. so we come up with this verse and then the chorus slows down and the day we made it I think we thought it was really sick this is the coolest thing ever made and it was it was cool it was and then the verses we just could never connect with I think the production of them I don't know or the writing I think it was just like they were a little like it didn't feel I didn't feel hooked yeah it wasn't like that every time I was waiting for it to get to the chorus and like sometimes that's fun but I don't know I like the whole song be good yeah and so then sometimes it's fun to be bored of the verses but normally I love it when the whole song is good what if we made these verses good um and so then we did was that the second try no we rewrote those verses yeah then we were in New York trying to fix it and we just started funny because remember we had the song cool which was the verse of karaoke and I was like yeah yeah we had I don't I actually still love that version too but we had this song and it was like the first verse was amazing and then the rest of it was bad and I was like okay well what if we take that amazing verse and put it with this amazing chorus that we have and then basically see that is why it is so beautiful to like lock arms with a main collaborator because if you're writing with a hundred different people it can get really tricky to be like let's take this part of this you can do it and then the business part just gets crazy but it is that is another great example of why it's awesome to find a main collaborator.

47:11Justin Tranter:Of course, guest stars always and whatever to keep things fresh and exciting. But like, if you guys weren't locked in like that, you wouldn't have been able to piece that together. Yeah. You would have to just give up on the song. And we had so many like moments in sessions where we would be like in the middle of working on one song and Bella would be like, close this. We're done with this one. We're opening something else. And I'd be like, okay. We're like, we're going on an adventure. and we'd like go to In-N-Out. But that was really exciting because then, you know, we worked for so many days that like something that we started for 15 minutes one day, she would always remember it if it was good.

47:46Yeah. That's why she lets me do it. Yeah. And so like we would, that was really fun about locking in. It's like being able to go back to a random idea we started.

47:54Justin Tranter:How does it, did it feel like with the sick blowing up and then all of a sudden there's a label and there's management and blah, blah, blah. How did it, or if it does happen, how did it feel to all of a sudden have outside business point of view on who you are and what you should be doing? I think I'm very like, I think a lot of people are surprised by how much I actually do think about that part of the job. And it's never like I'm putting out music and I'm like, okay, like I want to do this to hit this mark, whatever. but I do try to listen to what those people are saying and kind of like understand like this is a job like it is especially because like I dropped out of college to do this I'm not necessarily doing it for the love of the game then I'm like oh but I'm actually gonna still go get that law degree whatever because then it would be more like okay I'm just gonna put out whatever songs I want but it's like I want to always put my art first but also remember this is my job and like I want to do this for as long as possible so like what do I have to do to kind of get there wow she's so like business minded in a really interesting way that it was so new for me.

49:00So you both almost were lawyers.

49:04Justin Tranter:What's your problem? No, too hard. I think for me, I just wanted to do something really well in my life. Like I wanted to succeed at something. And when music was taking a second to click, I mean, my parents wanted me to do big things but I also put way more pressure on myself and so it was like when music wasn't working I was like I need to make money I need to do something big I need to like law school just feels like that thing that you do that's like that dramatic thing yeah so I was taking the practice LSAT and then the pandemic hit and then I moved back home to Florida and I think I thought about getting my MBA like all these different things and then I'm really glad I didn't because I'm very glad you did it I'm glad both of you didn't become lawyers what is your excuse for wanting to become a lawyer well okay it's actually kind of bad but i would like everyone to know that when i made this decision i was like i was like 17 and i was i was dating this guy and he really wanted and we had been dating for like two and a half years so i was like we're gonna like get married when you're 17 two and a half years is i know that's the thing you're like you're locked in yeah and i was like and he really wanted to do theater and like be an actor and like pops to him but i was like okay someone's gotta hold it down this bum no no i made the joke not you you're a nice polite person i'm not i'll get the punch lines for you so you were like okay i have to help this bum out just like i have to make money for this household you're seeing this um but i was like okay someone's got to hold it down and so i was going and like i also like it was again like wanted to make parents proud and i was like the music i don't know how to do the music thing when i i had it had been my dream since i was literally like six and i had always wanted to be a songwriter i didn't really want to be an artist because when i was in high school i was doing theater and i was like i can't sing i'm not a soprano and that was like genuinely my belief and so i was like can't sing and so i was like okay but i can write songs and so but i didn't know how to like because i was like okay if i do the tiktok thing that's gonna be artist forward that's not like whatever and so i don't i was like i can't move to la like i don't have any money and whatever and so i was like okay i'll go to school and i'll hold it down for the boyf and we will i'll go to law school but then we break up like right before college and i was And then you're like, your new girlfriend is really pretty.

51:40I was like. Oh, it's that guy. Wait, guys, guys.

51:45Justin Tranter:Fierce, fierce, fierce, connecting dots. And then I was like, okay, well, I was like, okay, well, I want to be a musician. And you're not like, I don't want to say hold me back, but you're not, I don't have to be a lawyer. And that was always my choice. He had no part in it. You're like, your new girlfriend may be really hot, but I'm going to be a rock star. I'm going to be a rock star. um and so then I was kind of like okay well I really want to do music and I was like maybe we broke up so that I can do music like maybe that's truly my calling and what I need to do and I locked in I was like okay I'm gonna really get better at guitar this year I'm gonna learn how to do x y and z and then I was like okay and then I locked in really like in March and April and I was like I'm gonna post a TikTok every day for all of summer and I was like if I don't get a thousand followers by the end of the summer, I quit.

52:32And I got a thousand. She got a thousand.

52:37Justin Tranter:How many did you get by the end? By the end of the summer, it might have been a hundred K that I had at that point. Yeah, and I was like, I was over the moon, but yeah, that's my story. I mean, that was a very good, that was, that's a round of applause story. That was very, very good. I care. I'm applauding for myself. Okay, we asked this question of everybody who comes on, what is the song? And it can also be a performance or a video, but what is the song that like ruined your life in the sense of like, oh fuck, I have to make music. What is the song that when you were young went, wait, I like this more than, yeah, my friends like music, but I'm like connecting to this in a way that like, I think this is my life now.

53:23I think love song Sabarellis for me, it just changed my life.

53:28Justin Tranter:I mean, it's a great fucking song. Cause I was a piano girl. So like to find like a pop star who had piano, it's so prominently in the song and just like the harmony was so interesting. And then it was like a song that had this deeper meaning, but also just had such an amazing melody. I don't know. I'm a Cerebralis stan forever. So I think that song I heard that and I was like, I wish I made this. I want to make music. Yeah. That's a, that's Cerebralis is such a genius. and you are the first person to mention Sarah Brellis as the reason why your life got ruined. Yeah, well, I love that and I love you, Sarah.

54:05Justin Tranter:I got to do a couple songs on her album that was like in 2019. Maybe it came out in COVID, maybe it came out in 20, but we wrote it in 19. That's amazing. She's so talented. I was really, she would come in with ideas decently far along and just wanted like an extra set of ears on them. Yeah, she's so special. Do you have yours? Yeah, ever since I was little, I always had like a deep connection to music and I always remember like because I would my parents would go on road trips a lot so that was a lot of time for me to like have my headphones in and like listen to music and it was like I was always listening to music but I remember the specific moment where I decided I really want to do it as like a career I went and saw Sabrina on the emails I can't send tour and I was like dude I was just like this is like something I want to do so bad and she was just like this like enigma like she's just so amazing live and she performed she like also does this thing where she like really talks about her feelings during the show and i really connected with all those beats that she was hitting and i just felt like walking out of that show i was like dude i was like i gotta find a way to do this like this is crazy i love also god you're so fucking young i know she said that wasn't that tour like four years ago yeah i was in high school for me.

55:17Wow. I mean, that's, that's the,

55:20Justin Tranter:cause I've had, I had a couple moments that I've talked about a bunch on it, but there was a show one where it was like, oh, this is kind of who I, I saw Paula Cole, another piano based pop star, you know, much more my era than your guys' era. But like, there was moments when I was like five and I was like, ooh, songwriting is crazy. But it was a concert I saw in high school that went, oh, I don't think I'm a theater kid. I love, I will always be a theater kid as a fan. But I was like, oh, I think I want to try to do that. It is, live shows are so special. Yeah, the right one will totally change.

55:56Justin Tranter:It'll change everything. Okay. To the end of every episode, we play a game called gag or drag. Okay. Gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. And if for whatever reason you just want to say meh and you don't really feel strong about it, you can say meh. But gag, you love it. Drag, you hate it. Gag or drag, your team asking for another version of a song that worked like can you please do that one again oh so for you guys hey can you just do i love it i love it i love it again yeah i mean like try we are so anti that and i think when because i love it was happening like in the middle of making the album and we were like it messes up a little bit yeah we were like should we just do it again because we were saying that we were like nobody was like do it again we just were like we were like maybe we should do it yeah i think that yeah that doesn't help it just doesn't have you you know doesn't allow for good creativity yeah gag or drag posting a thirst trap specifically hoping one person sees it oh god yeah that's a gag open it up scroll again did they this time post it on my story make sure so you have proof that They saw it.

57:06Justin Tranter:You know who saw it. Yeah. Gag or drag a collaborator changing your favorite lyric, but making it objectively better. I think that's a gag. That's a gag. And that's happened to me multiple times. Really? I know. And sometimes what really pisses me off is when they, when they write my favorite lyric in the song, I'm like, okay. Like, now I hate it. But I'm like, I have to keep it, obviously. No, it's not going to the album. And then people online will come and be like, I love this one. I'm like, no. Wait, wait. Shout out your collaborators. What's the line that your fans love that isn't yours? In Say It, say the book line.

57:43Read a whole book between the lines. When you first said it, I was like, what? And then I was like, and I was like, amazing. And I've seen people on my mind be like, oh, my God. And then also in Promise, there's a line, you're in my cortisol. And I was like, when he said that, I was like, oh, my God. Genius. But I was so mad. Who said it? Alexander 23. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I heard that one too and I was mad. We were all upset.

58:08Justin Tranter:But that show, again, you are a very smart, smart young woman. That is for you to like not only see the greatness, but then even fully acknowledge it with a camera on. Good for you. I'm proud of you. I'm like, yeah, I wrote it. Delete all of that. That's not making it in. um gag or drag someone you're dating saying i'm just bad at texting oh drag drag yeah yeah yeah yeah that's not especially because i'm bad at texting but not for pookie that's what it is it's like when you like someone you you text them so i'm bad at texting is only for people that you don't want to text if you don't want to text yeah yeah i mean that's that's the hard truth Yeah.

58:59Justin Tranter:Gag or drag, your fans loving the song you almost left off the album. Oh, gag. It's a gag, but it's unfortunate because it makes you a little nervous. You're like, hmm, maybe I don't know what I'm doing. That's fair. Gag or drag, someone saying, I'm not looking for anything serious and then acting like your boyfriend or girlfriend. Oh, drag. Gag. That's my ideal scenario. Really? wait this is supposed to be rapid fire but i need to know more i keep being like yeah so and you know what it never is rapid fire it never is wait why why is that your ideal i just feel like i love my dream next um situation is like a terrible like four month situationship where we're like not boyfriend and girlfriend but we're like it's like and then it ends in fire and flames that's what you want next yeah i think it'll be good for me and why as an artist as an artist Not as a person.

59:53Justin Tranter:In terms of, I mean, this is your job now and you need fuel for the job. Exactly. Gag or drag, going back to someone even though every single friend has told you not to. Drag. I'm going to say drag too. Wow. Wow, you're choosing the high road. Hey, don't look at me like that. gag or drag a producer deleting half the track and you can both answer this because sometimes you just write and don't produce it so the producer can do this to you too a producer deleting half the track and saying it needs less oh i mean i don't know kind of gag especially if they're right if if they're right i mean obviously if the track is really i guess there's been moments where it's drag and there's been moments where it's gag yeah if the track sucks i'm like yeah let's get that get to the point it is always i love when when writers in a session are like i think yeah i think this actually better just no drums could you just mute the um everything and you're like at some point the producer's gonna realize you just hate their drum sounds at some point if every session you tell them to delete the drums at some point they're gonna go I think I should work out my drums okay gag or drag your ex becoming hotter after you break up

1:01:22I think that's a drag but if I'm the ex then it's a gag

1:01:26Justin Tranter:same answer gag or drag keeping the emotionally messy demo vocal because it actually feels better oh 100 % gag yeah it's sometimes really hard with certain producers to convince them of that. Yeah, you're right. It totally is. I think it like there's something really cool about the mess or the being unsure of things like if it's making you feel something that has to be the priority. Yeah. Keeping it there. Maybe you change a few things around it, but keep keep it. Gag or drag someone hard launching a relationship three weeks after you break up. Oh. Drag. Yeah, no, it's not loud. I kind of love it.

1:02:10You think it's gag?

1:02:11Justin Tranter:Yeah, it's kind of a gag. Just because it's like, oh, you're clearly insane. That's fair. That's so true. Good point, good point. And thank goddess. And you're just doing it so I see. You're like, this is about me. The lesbians back here are like, par for the course. What are you talking about? Oh, right, yeah, lesbians, that's every time. Yeah. Okay, to wrap up this fabulous, fabulous conversation, what is advice that you wish you could give yourselves about collaboration that you've learned that you wish you could tell your earlier self about being a better collaborator? I would say don't try to like force something that's not working and kind of like if you're like in a room and it doesn't feel good it's not going to like get better the more you do it.

1:02:59You kind of like you need to like know where your people are and like where you feel comfortable and also like it's okay to be wrong yeah yeah can you give me a little more what you mean it's okay to be wrong I think sometimes this year I've gotten really good at being wrong I think I used to really like be so scared of like saying the wrong thing or being like oh no like I can't if I do this then like they'll think I'm stupid or they'll think it's like I'm not talented whatever but it's like I think make sure you're in spaces where you always feel like accepted and they know that you are whatever you are talented regardless of if you have a stupid idea one day whatever yeah um but it's okay to be wrong because sometimes the wrong idea is fire yeah so just let yourself fail i love that i think mine is very similar it's like the trusting of your gut and doing that publicly can be very hard when you're trying you're meeting new people and you're trying to seem cool and trying to like fit in or do what's best for the room but i think like the thing that you did at 11 p.m.

1:03:57in your bedroom when you were 16, like how do you harness that at 2 p.m. on a Wednesday in a professional studio is something that takes practice. But it's feeling really comfortable because that's the stuff. That's the reason you're in the room. And I just remember going to like meetings with A &Rs and playing songs. And it was always like the thing that I did in my room alone that was cooler to them than like the session song where I felt like I was trying to make the perfect session song. And so like harnessing that, figuring out what that is, and then allowing yourself to do that in front of collaborators you feel comfortable with.

1:04:33Justin Tranter:That, I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it that clearly. That, can you, we can obviously just watch the footage, but I need to hear that again. The thing that you did by yourself alone in your room at 16, what did you say after that? How do you harness that at 2 p.m. on a Wednesday in a professional studio? That is really so real. She got bars. She got bars. That is so real. I'm going to do that in my session today. You should. Yeah. I mean, that's the cool thing. I mean, I was really annoying at 16, though. I was like, I thought I was like Bernadette Peters meets Tori Amos. It was a lot.

1:05:13Justin Tranter:Amazing. She was my first concert. No way. Yeah, my mom's a huge Tori Amos fan. How old's your mom? She wouldn't want us. I was guessing her and I are probably the same age. I see. Because Tori Emmons was my second concert. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, I love that. That was really amazing. Both of you are so, so smart. I mean, we've hung out before, so I know she's smart. You at 20 years old being this smart, I'm nervous for anybody else who isn't that smart. That's amazing. I agree. Bella and Alexis, everybody. Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.