Bongo ByTheWay + Ant Clemons | Songwriting math, producer psychology + Ye hits

30:30Justin Tranter:literally you breaking down the Ed Sheeran song I'm not kidding like made me emotional because I'm such a geek of the craft yes that to see someone else that that's also such a loser. Just help. Come on, you know what I mean? With an M on my head. Like, really? Like, I feel so bad for so many of my friends. There's this songwriter named Patti Larkin, singer-songwriter from Cape Cod, and I'm deeply obsessed with her. She's like a 70-year-old lesbian, and I just worship every single thing she's written. And I will, like, since I was 17, break down the math of her songs to people who aren't even songwriters.

31:07Justin Tranter:Yep, I do it too. Yes, this is my favorite thing. And they're just like, okay. Oh, okay. And I'm like, but do you understand? Every verse is four lines. Yes. In the verse, she has a song called, I told him the dog wouldn't run. Please, come on, bring it down. Everyone listen to it. Come on, bring it down for me. I told him the dog wouldn't run is the fucking title. Yes. And in the third, every verse is four lines. In the third verse, she says, I asked him to marry me once. He told me he couldn't because this would be all that there was. Space. this would be all that there was then there's no fourth line all that there would be is fucking nothing can you believe it oh my soul it just oh i love a great song and now that we say it her and ed sheeran look a lot alike yeah you know just pasty lesbians pasty lesbians oh that is so funny um um now when you're writing okay this is actually a really good question when you're writing how aware are you of the math as it's happening or do you let it happen and then use the math to fix it if i'm writing by myself it's lightning speed yeah it's mathing feeling at the same time I hate to share with newer writers the daunting responsibility of the math.

32:34Because once you understand it, it doesn't go away. You can't feel yourself out of the math making the things that you would feel as correct, incorrect, if it's not done the right way. I feel like I'm the fix-it guy. He's going in real time, and I'm like, okay, no, not the, you. Yeah, this could be this, how about, and then it takes us to another place. Like certain things in my head, like they say, they, him, she, they, and them come between me, you, us, and we. So knowing how, like, oh, if you're saying, I saw him walking down the street, or I saw her, it's when someone hears that, they're thinking, they're processing, you're talking about someone else.

33:21You're not talking about me. Inclusion, exclusion. And when you say us or we or you, like you is one of the most grabbing words that you can say in a song and it grabs the listener. So like I'm listening for when we could do that or when that should be that instead of because he's just going rapid fire. So I'm like, I take the headphone off like, oh, no, no, no. You, she, we like switch. I just switch up the test and I put my headphones back on it and let him live his life.

33:50Justin Tranter:Okay, so as I think I've worked with you, I know you're like producer with a capital P, right? So I think there's a difference between a beat maker, an engineer, and a producer. How do you find the balance to being someone who's checking on someone's what pronoun are you using? Let's make sure we're cutting right to the heart. Say you instead, that's a capital P producer. You're overseeing the entire emotional situation, but also you're an unbelievable beat maker. So how do you find a way to balance the two duties that you have to handle in a session? Because you also, you hype people up so much.

34:34Justin Tranter:You bring so much positivity to a session, which is a really important part of being a producer. Now, me as a writer, I do a lot of emotional producing, even though I literally can barely send an email. but how do you balance the the different the different tasks that a producer has to handle just understanding everybody like managing personalities that's really where producing is it's like i like i love playing and actually producing hands-on like making beats but really when you get to work with great people when you get to work with a justin chern you know i'm saying you're able to like step back and see the whole song as a like as a you step back and see it from 30 ,000 feet so I like to see it from the ground floor and from 30 ,000 feet and it's just a passion I think it comes from when I was talking about like I was I loved Pharrell and Timbaland and these are people that I would see have their hand in every part of the song yeah so I feel like I understand the song from the bottom up.

35:40I started rapping when I was like eight years old and realized I couldn't rap to other people's beats. I had to make my own beats. So then I started making beats at 11. So I understand it from the position of how the song should feel. And I'm very much a texture guy. So I can guide the texture, but then also let professionals, that professional with me shape it. and then we know what it's supposed to feel like at the end. We know that line could have went harder. We know there needs to be a drop right there. We know that this word needs to do this. And so being able to like step back and look at it from 30 ,000 feet is what allows me to like do it.

36:21And then just, you know, the 10 ,000, 20 ,000 hours.

36:25Justin Tranter:Were you always good with people? Is that like a natural skill since you were young? I want to say, yeah. And then I actually have a bachelor's of science in psychology. So I actually like understand a little bit like about like interpersonal communication, you know, and how people interact and how to best interact with different people. So how do you have a bachelor's in that and then become a very successful producer? What's the journey from going? Okay. Was it, was the goal always music or how did that journey happen? Yeah, since eight years old, but my parents are Nigerian. So that, like, there was no not going to college.

37:08It was like, my father has a PhD in nuclear physics, and my mom has a master's in, like, business and accounting. So there was no not going to school. But my brother, man, my brother taught me. He showed me Stevie Wonder, The Roots, you know, everything. Like, he showed me everything, like, that gave me a musical. He had me playing in church. so he was the kind of like the foundation and then he was the guy that would that told my parents like hey you know he's kind of good you should you know let him cook yeah but after I got my degree I was like man yeah I can't

37:42Justin Tranter:tell me anything Wow and do you feel like because I my degree is literally in songwriting but part of me wishes that I would have like dug into something else don't regret my degree in songwriting because I learned all the math

37:59At the non-disclosed location. But the... I have to put that at the bottom of the screen, non-disclosed location.

38:07Justin Tranter:But it's so interesting to me to see, because I've seen you in your room, you're so good with people. And I think a lot of people who are really good at the computer or instruments, a lot of times are not good with people. They're actually quite bad with people because they're so hyper-focused on making this sound good that they forget the other part of the job, which when I'm in sessions I don't mind because I'm gonna handle a lot of the other part of the job but a producer is supposed to be the one supposed to supposed to yeah yeah but like also like working with good people like shout out Akil or like come on Ernest there's people that I work with that make everything like to make everyone's life better in that moment and you have to be able to make space for those people and then make them feel like the rock star that they are.

38:58Yeah. So, and that's really producing. Yeah. It's not, it's not this. Yeah.

39:03Justin Tranter:Not this. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Can you guys remember, whether it's together or separately, probably separately, because you both were on journeys before you met, but like the most, like the scrappiest, the most, like the most insane hustle moment, the most like, I can't believe I did this to get my foot in the door moment, whether it was a session, whether it was any sort of opportunity. Foot in the door? Or just any like crazy story of like trying to fucking make it happen. I was sleeping on my homie's floor for a year and a half out here. Shout out to my boy Scott and Ali for letting me live at their house out here in New Pollywood.

39:45Yeah. No money at all. My rent payment was writing a song a day. So I had a place to stay. I wrote a song every single day. and I wouldn't call it like the grimiest, but it was definitely like, hey, do you want it? Like, because the life you want is just a few nights on the floor away. Wow.

40:05Justin Tranter:And what was the moment that that changed? When could you afford your own rent? What happened? So what happened was I met Bongo. And when I met Bongo, Bongo was like, yo, we got to go to Jeremiah's house. And I'm like, all right, cool. I tried to play cooler than I remember. I was like, ah, Jeremiah's house, this is crazy. So we go to Jeremiah's house, and we're working on songs nonstop. At this time, Kanye is working with Jeremiah, and Jeremiah goes down to Wyoming, and he plays him a song that we were all working on that Jeremiah hadn't sang at the time. He had let me have the demo. So when the song comes out, the Jeremiah version that he recorded a little later, because it's like, you know, he wrote the song with us.

40:56Yeah. He was just like, yo, the version that Kanye heard was your version. So you got it. Fuck. And my entire career was birthed off of that moment because Jeremiah was gracious enough to, like, not only let people know what I did, but stand up for me behind the scenes. Like he's calling people and going like, yo, nah, this is Ant and Bongo and Scott. Like they're the ones that work on the song. Like make sure that they get their credit and stuff. Right. And he didn't have to do none of that. Like, wow. So from that moment, like the, the song all mine with Ty Dolla$ign and yay on the yay album literally saved me from sleeping on the floor.

41:34Fuck. Yeah.

41:35Justin Tranter:You were sleeping on a floor. Yeah. And then you're not only co-wrote a yay song, but on a feature. Yeah. Yeah. That was one of our first. That was our first joint joint. No, no. Because we had the DCF song with Game, Game, YG, and Jeremiah and Ty. And then we did the song with Nip, with Game. Wow. I mean, that's an amazing, very inspiring story. Thank you. I think mine was probably way, way earlier. It was probably like, I don't know, this was in college, because I'm still one of those people that interned at a studio. I feel like people skip a lot of steps now, rightfully so. Yeah, if you can skip them, good for you.

42:24Yeah, why not? But to those of us who didn't skip steps, they're like, eh. I remember being at Music House in Atlanta. This is in college. I would go to Atlanta to meet up with my cousin, Shout Out C4, and Drew Castro. I would go to, we'd be out there making P.F. Chang runs and cleaning toilets and stuff like that. But it turned into one day, Drew was like, yo, I sent him something, a beat, and he played it for Lecrae. And then ended up making it onto Lecrae's album, Gravity. And then I'm on a car dealership lot, just sitting selling cars. And he calls me one day, he's like, yo, bro, we're nominated for a Grammy.

43:05And I'm like, yo, whatever, I'm about to go sell these cars. And I just get off the phone. But then months later, it actually turned out that that was the catalyst to like, we won the Grammy, by the way. Shout out Lecrae. And that was like, it's like, usually I feel like people work for a long time before they get that level of recognition. But to be like so far removed and to have that, it was like, okay, now I have to like drop everything and move to LA. Like, and that's literally what happened. Like right after that, the next year I moved right to, I was in Burbank. Yeah. Like next year I was like, I didn't, I've never visited, never been to California, never been this far out.

43:48I was just like, yo, it's time. But without that moment, I wouldn't be here. So shout out to you.

43:54Justin Tranter:That's amazing. That it's also those, those moments of like, I think all three of us, those moments of like, there's these signifiers of success. That's how weird the music business is. but we're still broke as fuck. When I had three number ones and I was still living in a two bedroom house with six people because the money hadn't shown up yet. Yeah. It's, it's, we all, loving music is like such a blessing and such a curse. And now you're an 18 million bedroom house with just two people. All by myself. It's so beautiful to hear. It's a lot of delayed gratification. It is. But I think it's nice because it keeps you, I just thought I was still broke like four years into success which I think is helpful because then you don't blow it up what are things that you guys say no to now that you would have said yes to a couple years ago everything which camera is mine where am I at don't call me I say no to everything yeah that's funny um um i'm i had a hard time saying no my entire life yeah i was addicted to the word yes yeah and now no is one of my favorite words how so when you say no how do you not obsess over the no again i'm asking for advice i'm not really feel like i'm like the lord that created me that created this amazing opportunity is going to create a better one for me if it's for me like what is made for me what is meant for me is for me so like i don't lose sleep over anything that could have been perceived as a blessing that didn't get okay if it was it wasn't for me truly and how did because because you weren't always that way how did you actually come to that level of peace i have always been this way really my my parents didn't teach me lack like i didn't come from a place of like when you said yes to people it was just because you were before i want to hurt their feelings i was i'm genuinely nice so it's like okay got it the no and before it wasn't like a self-empowering no it was more just like i don't want you to look at me as as the bad guy so yeah to everything yes to a nighttime session yes to eight sessions in a day yes to uh we can't pay you for this but still come yes to pull up yes to everything okay and then i took a cold hard look like a life uh a life situation happened in 2022 that was crazy and showed me exactly who my real family was and my real people were.

46:33And I never had a problem saying no to any of my family or friends. Bongo never had a problem. Yo, yo, you trying? No. Yo, he knows me to the point where it's like, yo, bro, I know you don't want to do this, that, and the third, but. Because, like, I don't have to put on a facade for my family. So then when I realized that I was overexerting myself for people that I wouldn't even give my last dollar to, that wouldn't do the same for me in reverse, not that it was a, like, no. It's no protects me from me. No keeps me where I need to be. Okay, I love that. No. I'm going to start texting you to coach me through it.

47:14And no could be not right now. You could just, not right now could be the first little cool way to getting into you saying no. but like I have no problem. I think I can handle that right now. Not right now. I think that's a baby step for me. Yeah, not right now.

47:26Justin Tranter:I think I can handle it. Okay, that's very helpful. How about for you, Bongo? Is there things that you say no to now that you didn't used to? Yeah, but for me it's like a bandwidth thing. Right. You can't, so you have to say no. Yeah, because I like to take on a lot of things and I feel like I can do everything. Yeah. Like I just feel like I can do everything. Yeah. But I have to take a reality check. And then my family is across the country in D.C., so I have to be there. I have to see my mom, my dad, my nephews, my brother, my sister-in-law, everybody. They're all over there. So balancing, that's really what makes me have to say no.

48:08Gotcha. Because I do like to, oh, this might be something. Let's try it. Let's do a day. But if that's really what it is, I have to take time for me. and like even like like you know like we'll we'll get up and play basketball like you know and that's something that like we've implemented uh because it's like you have to take time for for life yeah for life so like no i can't do a session at 11 30 but i will do justin chan's podcast we'll skip basketball for the podcast absolutely what do you guys think what are things about the industry that you feel like artists, writers, producers, whoever it is need to unlearn?

48:54Justin Tranter:What are like industry standards that you think are like hurting all of us? I think labels should pay songwriters. Say that. Say that. I think that, yeah, that, I mean, I would, I could just leave it right there. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That you don't need to. Yeah. What did you learn? It costs a lot of money for your song to be on the radio, like, and just understanding it. So it's not necessarily the best quality song. It's not the best thing you've ever done. It's understanding that that song has a radio marketing budget that's behind it. and people are spending upwards of 50 to 250 thousand dollars on that one song just to watch it go up a billboard chart so just because your favorite song or the song that you worked on hasn't gained the traction or gotten the accolades yet it's not because it's not good it may be because it doesn't have any money behind it love that yeah that is very helpful information for people trying to get into this beautiful shit show that we all are a part of.

50:09Justin Tranter:What do you feel like music is missing? What do you wish as amazing collaborators that like, you're like, you wish you could get more artists or more late, more A &Rs or like more people to go on this type of journey with you creatively? Artist development. Absolutely. Okay. explain that for, for the, for the friends at home who might not know. My favorite artist of all time is Michael Jackson. And he went through artist development before he ever got to Motown. Like his father developed his amazing kids, um, with methods that you can't normally practice in 2026, but, um, just knowing how to interview, how to stand, how to walk, how to talk as a performer how to perform a song how to hold a microphone how to dance and sing and perform long periods of time and not lose your breath yeah Beyonce's an amazing a credit to like the the hard hard work it takes to run on a treadmill and be able to perform in high heels like it's it's ridiculous so as she went through an immense amount of artist development from her father and from the amazing group Destiny's Child that she was in.

51:26So I think in today's world where it's beautiful having the opportunity to get on the internet and show the process while you're learning, I wish the people that say, I want to be an artist, could actually go through the artist development, bootcamp, from the people that came out of it very successful.

51:47Justin Tranter:When if you look at so many of the artists that have broken recently, it takes 10 years. And part of that is just building your fan base. But the other part of that is developing, growing. What is my vision? How do I make the visual match the music? How do I make my songs better? And a lot of times, because our industry can be so short-sighted, when these artists blow up, it's their second or third record deal. So the labels that spotted their talent way early on don't actually benefit from spotting that talent because they give up on them because they're not letting them develop properly. The stories are absolutely endless.

52:31Justin Tranter:And my personal story as a writer is my band was signed to Warner Chapel and the people that ran Warner Chapel when we were signed as a band all got let go and Big John took it over. And they were in like a meeting, like a who are we dropping meeting. and everyone's like oh well my band was called semi-precious weapons drop semi-precious weapons you know interscope drop them it's done and john luckily had heard through tricky stewart tricky stewart saved my life and one i love him deeply but two i'm about to say literally saved my life he's let big john know in some random conversation oh the lead singer of semi-precious all this money a couple years ago but we paid the money why would we drop should someone should go hang out with the lead singer before we drop them and that is why i have this entire career but that it's rare that someone is as smart as john there's a reason why john is as successful as he is and it but normally they would have dropped me and i either would have had to fight my way to a new pub deal or I would have just been fucked and so the artist development is not only important to make the artist better but it's also really dumb that labels don't let it grow right because then they don't even benefit from the people they signed I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie though it there's two sides to the coin because I feel like some artists in uh in this climate that we're at like they don't like the artists don't necessarily appreciate the development process like they just want to go.

54:15They're not thinking, sometimes they're not thinking, okay, let me actually make this project cohesive. Let me make this song title go with this next song title. And then when you listen to the album from top to bottom, it loops back perfectly. And then this transition is going to put all this cohesion like that. And I want to build a world for people to fall into. some people are like more concerned with just the the songs and they don't understand like the word i should say some artists yeah so it's it's on both sides too like completely

54:52Justin Tranter:artists have to want that when a lot of times getting dropped is what motivates people to reinvent and to dig deeper so they can prove somebody wrong so they can survive so they can have their art reach the world so you're right it is a complicated question but it does all come back to like we have to root for artist development it's missing it's missing and on all sides of it but yeah i mean the reason i started writing for other people was because after being dropped from my fourth record deal i was like i've got to reinvent somehow i stupidly never thought to reinvent my band but luckily i was like oh i'll just reinvent myself and become a songwriter for other people but it wouldn't have happened if i wasn't dropped so it is it is a catalyst it is a tough it's like a chicken or egg situation of like should the labels stick longer but maybe they're if it's not the right fit then it's pointless to stick around um okay to end every episode we play a game called gag or drag gag means you love it drag means you hate it okay and you can also say meh if you really don't care about the question that's that's acceptable as well okay um gag or drag songs that sound slightly unfinished drag as a producer i knew i knew it i literally knew it i see i can see where you're going with it you know you got to answer what said to say though.

56:24Flag.

56:29Don't flag that one. That was incredible.

56:32Justin Tranter:Right because maybe it's unfinished intentionally. Yes. Well yeah sometimes less is more. Their songs like I mean shout out Jasmine Sullivan and her the record that I did with them Girl Like Me. There was like I had drums and strings but then we ended up stripping it back to just guitar and bass because less is more and it sounds the it sounds like though the demo but more polished obviously what they're singing so yeah sometimes less is more so I'm interested in hearing what it the baby of it yeah and how did how did it feel when they were like no strip it back were you like fully on board or were you like oh my god fully on board you know how they was singing That's a very good point Yeah He says you gotta get out the way Yeah Um Uh Gag or drag Lights off in the studio Drag I hate it too I can't fucking see Turn the fucking lights on I don't care I need lights on It's a meh for you I don't Yeah it's It's not like I never forget that I'm like I want a window I want a light Yeah I want I'm gonna fall asleep That's yeah I just It don't matter to me I'm here for a service I never lose sight of that If the artist wants the fucking lights off Oh of course and I'm not saying shit Oh I love it dark It's the best I gotta change my beat Oh my god it's dark It's going hard either way I actually recently was in the studio With like an Icon of a pop star But the song's not out yet so I'm not going to say who Because I don't want to get in trouble But the pop star's assistant walked in to the studio and it was pitch black and the assistant was like what the are you guys doing i was like nothing i pray everything is totally normal in here she just wanted the lights off um gag or drag writing sessions that become therapy sessions yeah it's a gag right because even though it can be annoying you're like the song's gonna be a hit or at least i can't stand that i i can't stand that it's the best part of writing songs it's like I didn't even expect this today.

58:41Like, this conversation, you came here expecting to have a good convo, but you didn't expect, oh, wow, my soul got fed in this moment. Yeah. Steeper than rap. Yeah. Yeah. Take that. There you go. Perfect.

58:55Justin Tranter:I know the answer to this because I, well, I know my answer to this is just 100 % a gag because I love it deeply. Gospel chords in popular music. Hallelujah. Yeah. It's the fucking best. Hallelujah. It's the best. It doesn't get any better. Um, uh, gag or drag making sound, making something sound grimy on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. The best. Um, uh, the gag or drag the phrase less is more. Yeah. I like that. That's, that's, it's, I live by that. Like, cause sometimes, I mean, I went through the phase of doing the most and, but now like, I'm not about the beat. I make the beat, but it's about the song.

59:37Yeah. So I'm still a machine. for the ship it back strip it back less is more and i think that's what she said but but i'm like why would she ever say that like so it's like how did we talk about songs okay less is absolutely more a lot of a lot of time i agree with my brother yeah now how did you normally this is the rapid fire part but that

1:00:01Justin Tranter:that answer i love your answer bongo a lot how did you get as someone who is such a fucking unbelievable beat maker? How do you get to the place where like, I don't, sure, I don't, I want the beat to be as good as it needs to be, but how do you get to the place where you're like, it's not fucking about that? I see the whole thing all together, but sometimes having an amazing beat is cool, but if the song isn't good, then it's like, what are we, like, what are we talking about? So that also, that, that lets you know the importance of the songwriting and you, when you realize how other people digest music.

1:00:34Some people like songs just because they can see themselves in the song. So it lets me know I'm just painting the canvas around the song. And then sometimes that's going to take some times where you're going to have to put your balls on the table and do something crazy, but don't get in the way of the song. Don't get in the way of the why, because that's going to inform people why they're even playing the song. and I'm not gonna do just because I think it's cool you know what I mean but I will if it is

1:01:06Justin Tranter:for the right vibe 100 % if you could give your younger selves one piece of advice about being a better collaborator specifically collaboration not a better writer not a better musician not a better producer a better collaborator what would you tell yourself? my younger self. Something you've learned that you wish you could cheat code yourself earlier. I'm conflicted. We'll say them both then. Cause, cause I would say you don't have to do everything yourself, but I think because of coming from the perspective of thinking I had to do everything myself, that made me a better all around. But the truth is you don't have to do everything yourself.

1:01:53Yeah. You know, I, so that's what I would tell myself. Yeah. But I would have to explain it in a weird way.

1:02:00Justin Tranter:You'd have to be very nuanced with yourself. Do it, but you don't do it. I just tell my little self that it's way more fun with more people than just by yourself. It's like you'll have more fun doing the thing that you love to do with other people that love to do it just as much as you do. And I wouldn't tell me to change anything between now and then. but I would just highlight how cool it is to be in a room with someone who is one person away from the person you always wanted to be with, and then you find out that that's really the person you wanted to be in a room with. Because I grew up in music, songwriting grow up.

1:02:43I grew up learning how to songwrite by listening to Frank Ocean songs. And then through listening to Frank's Nostalgia Ultra, I found out who James Fauntler was. and I was like oh my god I'm the biggest James Fongebob here in the world yeah and by the grace of god like working and working and working like I'm working with James now so now someone that I found through somebody I loved is somebody that is a friend of mine yeah so yeah it's it's I always

1:03:12Justin Tranter:tell people like when people ask for advice like you have to fucking co-write yes do 10 co-writes and if you still hate it, that's fine. But until you do 10 co-writes, you don't know what songwriting is. Because what you can learn about yourself from watching somebody else be great is so special. Thanks. So special. Can I shout out a couple of my favorite co-writers? You better. Amy Wedge. Oh my gosh. She's a genius. Well, as an Ed Sheeran super fan, you must freak out when you write with Amy. We did this song on Ed Sheeran's I forgot the name of the album. I think it's a track, but it's called Visiting Hours.

1:03:52And we all worked on that song. Amy is my fairy godmother. I love working with her.

1:03:58Justin Tranter:She's amazing. Ido is one of my favorite co-writers. My brother Bongo, period, is one of my favorite co-writers. Her is one of my favorite co-writers. Yeah. I love working with her. It's so many. Michael Pollack. A genius. I always had fun working with Michael Pollack. Like his friendliness and just sincerity. It comes across in just everything that he does. But there's so many, I'm forgetting a whole bunch of people, but like Jazzy, that's my sister. I love coming out with Jazzy. Oh yeah, no, yeah. Go ahead. Shout out Jazzy, definitely. Man, Drew Love, we were just in the desert with Lucky Day.

1:04:41He's also, that's why my voice is messed up like this, by the way. thank you for bearing with me but um yeah lucky um uh anderson man his pen and his approach insane it's crazy jesse reyes she is she's a goat unbelievable writer goaded goaded the best eric milano yeah daniel church yeah yeah what's a moment okay for real last question

1:05:10Justin Tranter:What's a moment that happened in a session writing with somebody that you were like, oh, I'm never going to forget this. And I'm going to try to use what this person just accidentally taught me by writing with me. I'm going to try to use this forever. Jeremiah. Tell me what would happen. Jeremiah, he's one of the greatest writers of our class and our time. And people don't give him as much credit as he deserves. his approach like not only do you like realize like he he approaches things percussively but and melodically at the same time and then he pushes you to say things a little bit avant-garde it's something like if it sounds like something that is like familiar to the ear but you know to change some words around and like it's like that and then his approach to just like nah like He won't accept something that's just like cool.

1:06:11He has to push the envelope. Yeah, he's, yeah. I owe a lot to him just like learning. And a lot of my, even when I approach records sometimes, like I'll melodically think of what he would do. You know what I mean? Yeah. Piggybacking off of that, I'll give you three. Love it, let's go. Off of it is definitely Jeremiah. I'm gonna go Ty Dolla Sign. What have you learned from Ty? So much. Ty does not need anyone to do anything. Period. So Ty Dolla Signs taught me self-sufficiency to the max. Because when I work with Ty, I'm back to being an ant in Hillcrest in Pensacola recording myself on my computer.

1:06:57Like back in Poetools. Red Lobster. It's like, although I'm used to working with an engineer and I love working with engineers, that's my favorite part of writing. is not having to do that part. It's like, oh, wow, I do have to record myself. I do have to come up with the chords and do all the things I used to before I got to the space where I was just receiving packs and receiving opportunities where the engineer was always there. James Fauntleroy, I've learned so much from. Not only the music, but past the creation of music, the importance of understanding the business. Like, we're in the music business.

1:07:35so a lot of people that make the music don't understand that we're in the business and without the business you shouldn't just be making the music because I can't sit in a studio that I'm not paying for if no money's coming in so understanding the music and the business and the last in that so it's Jeremiah it's Ty, it's James and John Bellion like John Bellion also self-sufficient I learned from afar that you don't have to compromise your core values to do the thing that you want to do. And from John, it's like, I watched him have the world as just a fan. It's like, oh, he could have did anything he wanted.

1:08:22And he made his family his most important thing. He made what he was doing in New York his most important thing. And he was like, hey, the people that want to come are going to come to me.

1:08:33Justin Tranter:And not even New York City. Yeah, no, not New York City. Like, New York State. Yeah, like, if you want to work with him, you're going to him. It's a long way to Long Island. Yeah, I didn't go. I went, and I loved it. I think I'm too gay for Long Island. I'm going to skip this one. I'm going to skip this one. It's great. That is true. It is. Watching him prioritize his life that seriously is very inspiring. Yeah. I just moved my parents to LA. Come on. That's the dream. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You guys were awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Round of applause for Ant Bongo.

1:09:17Justin Tranter:Come on. Thank you for having us, bro. No, thank you so much for coming. Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.