Claire + Ragnar Rosinkranz | The Viral Hit, the Health Scare, and the Comeback

22:56Justin Tranter:version of MTV when those channels used to play music. I should remember this. Also, you should watch, we have to educate the children here, watch VH1 Divas Live. Okay. VH1 Divas Live. Like VH1 Divas Live, like 1, 2, and 3, gonna blow your mind. Is this a movie? No, it was like concert. They would do like these live concerts of divas, just like women singing their fucking faces off. It was legendary. and then they started having like some more singer songwriter people on it as it got bigger but like to start it's just like yeah singer singers yeah it was vh1 was it was awesome yeah no it honestly wasn't scary you know i'd kind of got at a point in my career where i was like i'm bored of scoring because i went from film to tv series and then a big break i'd start a restaurant and then i was like i'm i gotta get back to music and so i started making commercial music for commercials and i and And I got really bored of that.

23:54And I was like, Claire's really talented. And I need to invest a little time in her. She said a year. Yeah, I said, I'm going to give a year to Claire and see what happens. And then so that happened. A couple weeks in. That's crazy. It was honestly just a big whirlwind. It was like. You prepared. You had the vision for it too. Sure, to some degree. But at the same time, it was a lot of new stuff. I had never walked the red carpet at MTV before. and it was all very strange, you know?

24:25Justin Tranter:So how does it feel for you at 16 walking a red carpet? Born for this. Love it. Yeah. Love it. That's literally it. I mean, I just knew. I like, so honestly, I feel like most things didn't really surprise me, I guess. Well, didn't surprise me, but - But also you're so young, you don't know any different. Yeah. And I also, again, like didn't, I still didn't understand what it was. like I was just like oh yeah I'm doing this and then I look at it I'm like oh that was actually a really big opportunity Claire like you didn't think about that or like you didn't like I don't know well but everything's relative and you had nothing to compare it to no yeah yeah yeah I don't know what a strange I just think I like genuinely knew in my heart I was like I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life so when certain things started happening I was like oh cool but yeah finally catch up yeah finally well yeah and I always have been like I'm so behind like I didn't blow up at like 10.

25:22It's just like, like literally distraught in my room at night. Just like, I can't believe it.

25:28Justin Tranter:But you know what is so crazy is that I had those feelings in the fucking suburbs of Chicago with no, it's way, you know, I'm 46, so there's no chance of going viral. That's not even a word. The word viral means something way worse than what it does now. Getting dark again. That's a very different conversation. Turn around, turn around. Yeah, being a 14-year-old homosexual in 1994, the word viral is not great. Keep that in. So, but I had those same feeling. I just think when you are a really, it's not even about being an artistic person. It's about artistic plus deeply driven. I had those same feelings at 14, even though that was never going to happen for me.

26:19Justin Tranter:Yeah. Because it's like you couldn't put something online and have people like it. It didn't exist. You have to like move to New York. Hustle. Build a fan base, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But I'd love to hear that like it's all the same. Yeah. Like even though like I was having those same dreams and the same like how am I not already famous? Even though there was no chance of that happening for me. I love that. But you had that. And there is a chance that in your era viral is a good word. Yes. I guess you can go viral for the wrong reasons, but that's a whole other conversation. I feel like it's not even that bad anymore though.

26:56Yeah, if you go viral bad, it still helps. All press is good press.

27:01Justin Tranter:Thinking about an early gig, an early job for a commercial or something that like, because a lot of people come to our podcast trying to learn about the art of collaboration, trying to learn about whatever fields we're interviewing, lots of music, of course, but we've talked to other people. Of those early gigs that are like, you can't believe how bad you did or how bad it was, but, like, you've got through it. Okay, so, like, one of the very first live shows we did because I was playing until this. With me? Yeah, I was playing with, I was on the road with her in the beginning. And so I was playing bass, and we flew out to, we got this gig to play at, like, the, like, some military installation in Denver, Colorado, right?

27:43Obviously. Obviously. There's so many weird things that, Like so many weird opportunities that come with music these days. Yeah. Where it's like, yeah. So we fly our way to this military base. We drive this thing. We go through these crazy checkpoints. We get there and they're having like this, what they're calling a festival for like the military people. And like, and we like, we're like, the person walks us to like our stage. And literally the stage was like, like this big. and it was like the speakers were like this big and the field was like, picture like the movie Dune, but like all grass.

28:22Okay. Okay. It was like a massive, massive field of grass and like this festival had like us as like the musical act and then like you could barely see like five miles out that way. It was like the churro stand. You like had to take a subway to get to it. And then like when we actually performed, it was like three people there. Yeah, and you're having to like put your whole heart and soul. into a performance. Love it. Love it. It's just like, those are the moments where you're really tested. Oh no,

28:51Justin Tranter:if you haven't played a show for three people, you are not an artist. I don't, I don't, I can't believe you. If you haven't done one gig for three people, you don't deserve to keep going. Yeah, yeah. You gotta get through that. No, I've had, I've definitely had a couple of those because it's more of those random, those kind of like random gigs and you're just like really having to lay down your pride and all the other things and I don't know. But honestly, like those situations, like the fact that I'm even getting the opportunity to like have somebody fly me to the military base to perform for them.

29:22I'm like, that's not so bad.

29:24Justin Tranter:Well, but then that's how you survive it though. Cause you have to in the moment go. Yes. But also someone paid for me to come here. Yeah. Fuck it. Hello, my little unfamous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, Lil Miss algorithm is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it. So if you follow this podcast, what do the old school YouTubers say? Like, subscribe, and follow. If you do that for me, then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and to do all those fun things.

30:09Bye. Yeah. And I would say like, I mean, and again, this is like in the grand scheme of things, really not horrible, but like opening for certain audiences, like opening for an artist.

30:21Justin Tranter:Opening can be really hard. And like, yeah. I did it a lot. I was in a band before I wrote for other people. Yes. Opening can be a blessing and also really hard. Yes. Because they're not there for you. No. And I, yeah, I've done, I did two opening for two arena tours, like in the last year, basically. And it's like such a cool, amazing experience. And I'm so beyond lucky, obviously. And it's like still an amazing experience for me, but it is like, you see people's faces, you see like, some people are on their phones, some people are just straight face. Some people are like, yeah. And like, at, you know, one of the tours, like it was a completely different, like age demographic than mine.

31:07And so like, they're like, hella disinterested in like this little, like, you know, and you just kind of, I think also they, like, I think about when I go to one of those arena shows, I look at the artists on the stage, even though I've like been in that position, but you look at them and they're not really real. And it's like, I mean, it's hard to understand that they feel any way or any type of way about the audience. And like, I don't know, being up there, there's definitely times in like specific shows where there was just like so many people where I was like, oh, like you just got to like look at them and move on.

31:45And I would just like in those moments look for the person that was really excited to be there and realize that like I was making their whole night. And then I'd be like, well, in the same way that this person is completely disinterested, this person is. And so like, I think, um, you just kind of have to focus on the positive.

32:02Justin Tranter:Yeah. And you, it's like, it's a really, I mean, obviously an amazing opportunity. And I learned so much, like, even if it wasn't in the way that I was expecting, like just learning how to navigate, navigate and be sensitive to such a big audience that isn't mine and learning how to just like, you know, persevere and like find like what people will receive and what they won't. Um, it was, yeah. I mean, I, I still look back at it and I'm like, wow, that was amazing. But there was moments where, I mean, then like internally and like afterwards or like, you know, you're on the road away from all your friends and family for like two months and you're just kind of like processing all of these, like, it's not normal to walk out in front of like 15 to 20 ,000 people and have all of them judge you.

32:48It's weird. It's like, and I think I'm like, oh, like whatever. But then there's moments where all that kind of like comes crashing down a little bit and you're like, Oh my gosh, like I'm a human being. Oh no, there's so many people are judging me.

32:59Justin Tranter:It's there's, there's no way to not have those thoughts. There's no way to not, no matter how positive you stay, there's no way to not. I mean, I would always crowd too. It could be like 50 people. And I would just, I would, I would always just be like, all right, fuck it. Lowest common denominator. I'm just going to get them to pay attention to me by, I would make them do a chant of the headliner's name. So like when we opened for Gaga, I'd be like, I say lady, you say Gaga. Lady Gaga. Or open for Kesha, Kesha, Kesha. I was like, because then I'll at least get their attention for that. And then if I play a really great song right after, then maybe some of them will pay attention to me.

33:42Justin Tranter:Yeah. Oh, that's really smart of you. Thank you. And then it was like, but then, you know, Of course, then you still lose, like, no matter how great I was going to be, you still lose 90 % of the crowd after you just made them chant the headliner's name. But at least I got them on my side for, like, a second. I also have a performing at a military situation story. We, my band played in, this is iconic. This is iconic. Oh, I'm excited. So we played a radio, like, an alternative radio show in Bakersfield, which is a huge, I learned, I had no clue, is a huge military town. and so there was all these like military people um who spoke in between the acts oh and i'm like in the backstage area and in my band i was like in full makeup fishnets six inch heels so like not a military vibe as i'm like standing there with like yes uh military people and and i get so uncomfortable and it's really hard to make me uncomfortable.

34:46Justin Tranter:Like I really haven't been uncomfortable since the nineties, you know, but this moment was so, I was like, these people are, they hated me. Right. I could just tell they hated me and it's not me overthinking. They did. And I'm like, I got to relate. Cause this is a really small area. I got to relate. So I just,

35:11Justin Tranter:enough eyeshadow to kill a small child. in broad daylight, right? It's like 2.30 July. It was the 4th of July weekend, right? This is America's weekend. And I'm like, hi, gay. And so I'm like, all right, I've got to relate. I've got to relate. I've got to relate. My brother's in the military. Lying. I'm lying. I'm lying. And I did not think, I did not expect there to be follow-up questions. That's so good. No, what did they ask you? It's like, oh, where is he stationed? Is that how you say it? I don't know, like, where is he stationed? And I was like, actually, I can never answer that question.

35:53You're like, here, he's stationed here. Your heart's just breaking. There you go. Actually, what did you say? No, I know where this is going. This is fine.

36:04Justin Tranter:Oh, no. Actually, we don't speak. Oh, my God.

36:15Oh my gosh.

36:16Justin Tranter:I'm like, we don't speak. That's so good. And they're like, oh. I'm like, yeah, he's like a really bad person.

36:28What are they saying? Then like, are people just watching you? And my band members who are like family at this point.

36:37Justin Tranter:We've been in the band for like, this is like the last year of the band. This probably ended the band. my band members know I'm lying of course they're all just like what the fuck is going on and then I just turn around and walk away that needs to be a scene oh that's so good oh my god I haven't thought about that in a minute yeah you care you like have to black that out of your band It was all we talked about for like three weeks. We're like, what were you doing? When did you perform? We performed. We had already performed. So I'm also like sweating, right? I'm like sweating buckets through my makeup.

37:29Justin Tranter:Lying. I think they knew I was just lying. I was just like, it was in. Oh, we haven't spoken. Well, it's just true. I wasn't speaking to one of my brothers. So you had that one in your pocket. I had it, but then like. Yeah. That's so good. Wow, that's a really good story. Thank you very much. Thank you for letting me take up your pocket. No, this is what it's about. It's yours. Okay, so another one of our favorite questions we ask everybody is, what is the song or performance or YouTube video or whatever that like, I say like ruined you in the sense of like, oh fuck, I have to make music now. Like this, I heard this song or I heard this interview with this artist or I saw my mom in this opera and I had to be like, oh shit, I'm doing this now.

38:23Right. Dad, do you have one? I guess I... You're still crying. I don't know if it's... I don't know if it's like, if it's the one, but one album that really spoke to me was, what was the name of it? That George Michael one that had a lot of jazz in it. The one later, right?

38:43Justin Tranter:Yeah, later. It's not the big one. That one just messed me up. Faith. You gotta have faith. You gotta have faith. That one ruined me. That's the one. I actually went into the mall and they had those little booths at the time. Yep. Where you can like - Preview it, listen to it. You can listen to it, but you can also record your own vocal on top of it. Oh, that thing. No way. Yes. Yeah, it was so cool. So I went and did that. I was like, you gotta have faith, faith, faith, faith, gotta have faith, faith. So I was like, I was so into it. And that kind of ruined me. That song kind of ruined me for sure.

39:16Justin Tranter:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a perfect song. Yeah, perfect. That's a very legitimate answer. Nice, nice. Do you have one, Hillary? I got my one that up. I mean, this is maybe just like expected, but I genuinely think listening to you play music around the house. I mean, like how can you not when the house is just constantly, I mean, you're so passionate when you play. You're going to cry. I know. You're going to make me cry. I'm going to cry for you. Oh, my God. I know, first Justin's story, now me. Tears of laughter and now tears of joy. Of joy, yeah. No, but seriously, I mean, you're so passionate, like with everything that you do, everything that you touch and, you know, violin was, you're very expressive when you're playing the violin and you would just be in our living room, just, you know, in this like spiritual experience.

40:14and um music is very very spiritual for me like I mean it's yeah I feel like every time I'm making music I just am like connecting with everything that is higher and inside of me and I just have felt so much much of that um from your playing and um yeah and then also obviously in the studio and even in the car we're like on our way and we're just like listening to music and uh listening to a couple of things that oliver sent to us and then he like played me a voice memo and yesterday you were like i don't know on a walker what were you doing i was just walking and i was like oh that's a cool beat yeah and he just like has a measuring tape and he's using that as his percussion with his feet and all these things and he's like yeah exactly and then he's like playing it in the car and he's like totally into it he's like listen like but like so passionate so i like can't help but feed off of that.

41:13I love that. Yeah.

41:14Justin Tranter:That's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that that's like, you being a musician is a different level, but I think so many of us, like if, like my dad is so deeply passionate about music, even though he can't make it, that there's no way that doesn't impact you deeply. No, absolutely. Yeah, and it's like, there's like songs that our family loves as our whole family, besides the one brother who we don't speak to. So it's like, might as well call it back. You have to put that story in. That story's going so good. We're not cutting it. You have to. We're clipping it too. We'll repeat it.

41:49Justin Tranter:We'll do it twice in the show. With your new album being out for a couple months, is there a song on it that you guys didn't expect the fans to react to in a way that they did? I remember playing when, for instance, Seth heard Just a Man. He cried. So, like, I wasn't expecting that from, like, this guy's a man's man. He's, like, cowboy. Bro-in. He's very, he's a little macho man. Superman. But, yeah, he totally wept, and I was like, wow. I broke him. That's amazing. That's cool. Cool. Yeah. I don't, oh, gosh, I don't even know. Maybe, maybe, maybe Bleeding Violet Live. I feel like a lot of people really liked that one live I don't know I might have to come back with you I can't even think about my songs it is always fun to see like how like live songs songs land better or worse than you expected and you're like oh yeah honestly I think this last tour cause I took like a three year break I guess I got like severely like deathly sick and I was like it was a matter of literally life and death and I'm sorry.

43:08Yeah, I mean, I'm okay. And I'm honestly better for it. But I had to recover for a really long time. And so I kind of, I feel like that's where a lot of my momentum, I kind of like had a lot of stuff happening. And then I had to stop. My body was just completely giving up on me. Fuck. And so.

43:27Justin Tranter:Do you mind if I ask what it was? Honestly, still don't even know exactly what it was. But I was on tour. I was touring a ton. and I think I just wasn't eating enough, sleeping enough, not taking care of my body. And I don't know, like, if I, like, again, if, like, I don't think it was because I was vegetarian or anything, but I know that my hemoglobin was super low. So anything under a red blood cell level count of seven is super dangerous. And I was at a three, which is, like, really bad. And she was performing at that level, too. I was like, how did this happen? Yeah. Wow. Like an under seven, so dangerous.

44:07So I was at three. I had like an ulcer, so I was internally bleeding. So losing more blood, which that has a lot to do with your hemoglobin, your iron, right? I don't want to say anything to like, I don't want to be like, yeah, this is how this works. Because like, yeah. And they're like, oh. Doctor's advice. Or people are like, no, that's not right. Anyways.

44:25Justin Tranter:We're not trying to give medical advice on this podcast. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Like many comedians do. This songwriter does not endorse medical advice. No. disclaimer, no one here is a doctor. Anyways. Um, but yeah, that's like some of the logistics, but basically I, it just completely depleted my body. And I was on my second to last show of one of my tours. And I, I remember the day before that doing a show and feeling like on stage, like super lightheaded, but like a couple of people in the crowd had passed out. So I was like maybe it's just like you know too hot in here and um but then the next day I was at a hotel on an off day and I was with my tm and uh or I guess assistant at the time because I had a different tm and uh I remember feeling like every time I got up to go to the bathroom I couldn't even make it to the bathroom and I was like whoa like I'm gonna pass out and so I just would go back and sit on the bed.

45:25And that kind of cycle repeated and it was freaking me out, but I was like, maybe I'm just really overworked, overly exhausted. Let me just sleep on it. And so I slept on it. And the next day I got up, same thing. And so me and Noah, we went out into like, we were on our way to the elevator, like five feet from my hotel room and I needed to sit down. I was like, whoa. And she took a photo of me. We were laughing because we were like, this is so like, what's

45:52Justin Tranter:happening and i had like the darkest circles under my eyes though like i was like we were like what's going on this is like hilarious and my i just had like the darkest like purple like under my eyes and so my tm and my sound guy at the time they come up pick me up into the elevator and then we get down in the lobby and i pass out i wake up some foreign doctor like that happened to be in the lobby is like like checking my eyes and then i pass out again and i wake up and there's vomit all over me and paramedics everywhere and they're like are you okay and i'm like girl you would not be here if i was okay like i'm covered in vomit i'm covered in vomit what do you think does this look okay you're here fashion sweetie fashion slay yeah it's for my alternative album yeah i was really lacking some experiences um so anyways then uh end up doing the whole ambulance thing which is kind of like a bucket list moment you know that thing i mean normally it comes right at the end of your bucket list sweetie this is this is special and um anyways ended up being at the hospital all day for like seven hours but i was kind of really sick of i was sick of being there.

47:08I wanted to be home so bad. And I would like, they'd wheel me to the bathroom cause they were pumping me with fluids and I'd pass out in the bathroom. I had to hit a button before I'd go down. They would be like, come in, brought me back.

47:21Justin Tranter:And like, thank God they had a buzzer in there. Oh my God. I'm having way too much fun with this really dark story, but it's your fault. You're making it funny. It's not my fault. No, it is. I think it's good and to help you to laugh at it now. Because I really, I went through it and I experienced it. It's not like I didn't acknowledge it. So I think... Your performance art piece of hitting the button really is. Yes. Yes, exactly. Very dramatic. Anyhow, so at a certain point though, I was like, I'm sick of being here. I was like, I'm fine. Like, I'm fine. I can go back home. And so we were like, she's fine.

47:58Like, get her out of here. And I like, and I, at that point, I think they had pumped me with enough fluids where like, I could walk, and I walked out. I'm like listening to myself. Please don't stop. Keep going.

48:11Justin Tranter:I'm going to stop laughing so I can enjoy this later. Please. So anyways, I ended up walking out. We get on the bus and we're driving back. We're watching Hot Rod in the front lounge and I have to go to the restroom and I am like, you know, it's a bus and you're driving and it's a six hour drive and I end up losing my balance and my head, like I literally remember being like, head hits one wall, head hits the other wall, head hits the door and I like fell out. And then dad was there and a couple other people, obviously in the front lounge and they like picked me up. My videographer, he got a video of this.

48:51It's so gnarly. Yeah, he's filming the whole time. He filmed. Amazing, amazing. He's actually an amazing videographer. He knows how to the moment. He never misses a moment. Yeah. And so, but yeah, so they bring me to the, you know, bench in the French front lounge. And that's the moment where like I ended up having a breakdown because I was like, whoa. Something's wrong. Yeah. I was like, something's wrong. And because like I really couldn't stand without passing out. And so, and that would happen every time I went to the bathroom on that drive. And so my Noah would come in with me and I would, you know, sit on the toilet, pass out on her.

49:27She'd drag me out and whatever, every single time. and it just progressively got worse to the point where, like, I would just, I'd lift my head and I'd pass out and, like, couldn't hold anything, couldn't, like, couldn't walk for, like, a month. And, you know, it was just, it was, I mean, I was completely kind of unconscious for a lot of it. Like, I don't remember a lot. And I ended up writing a song about it, and it was funny. I was talking to my best friend the other night about it. She was dealing with some stuff, and it genuinely reminded me of what I wrote. And I have the bridge is, I don't remember, how could I ever forget?

50:08I want to feel better, but something about being sick is easy, twisted, comfortable, but I don't remember. And I like, it was just about being like -

50:16Justin Tranter:Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, and I was just like, I really like can't remember, but it's like, how could you ever forget? You were so sick. And like something about like being like sick and if you have like chronic illness or even like if you've experienced anything toxic in your life, like a relationship, there's something that's so comfortable and like comforting about it. And like you find such like identity in it. And yeah, but I was like, but I don't remember it. Like, I don't even remember that feeling anymore. But like, it's just, it's complicated and chaotic. But anyway, so I really don't remember a lot of it.

50:48Some doctors were like, she's going to die unless you do this thing. And then my parents were like, sometimes uncomfortable by some of the procedures that they wanted to take. And so we would like search. it was just a journey and obviously I ended up getting better but again was like genuinely on a level of or at a place of life and death and so it was gnarly I've never I mean I remember like at one point like I could I could never go to the bathroom by myself and my parents had to take me to the bathroom and it's so painful like I can't remember how it felt but I remember as soon as they'd get like pick me up I'd just go and be zombie zombie in the toilet they'd drive me back to bed like and I'd be you know and so um and then I remember like I remember begging my mom like I was like please just like try taking a shower by myself like just things like such like little things normal things in life yeah and I really like and I think a lot of you know my sickness truthfully like I wasn't taking care of myself and I think it was something that was really playing out in my subconscious that brought me to this place but I didn't realize how much like Like I was not, I wasn't taking care of myself because I didn't care as much as I, I mean, like I thought I did and whatever, but like there were a lot of things that I think I didn't like about myself.

52:06And that really did bring me to a place that was dysfunctional. And so when I was in that place, like seeing photos of me healthy and realizing like, oh, like I, you know, like I'd have to call my mom or my dad every day to like get me out of bed. I was like, I can't believe, like, I just couldn't believe it. It just brought me to tears that, like, I couldn't do things that you don't think twice about in the morning, you know?

52:33Justin Tranter:How did it feel to get back to making music after all of that? Oh, my gosh. I mean, amazing. I had so, like, I wrote a song with one of my friends. And do you know Eddie Benjamin? Of course, yeah. Yeah. so after like when I was really recovering I like he was kind of the first person I feel like I really started making music with again yeah and he invited me up to his house in a canyon in Malibu and we just like would write on his acoustic guitar cool and he's so talented so talented so So talented. And yeah, he just like made, he gave me so much space and just like listened so well and really like was just so sensitive to me that it ended up bringing out like very, the like, very honest parts of me that were very vulnerable.

53:30And I remember in one of our, like we ended up going to the studio one day and we were working on a song and he was just doing whatever he does. Like he's also like a witch himself. And I remember just like crying in that session because I was so undone by like the vulnerability that was being brought into the music and that I was sharing and that, you know, he was like bringing out in me. And so I don't know. I think it was I think it was also confusing, though, because I was like learning myself for the first time again. And it felt like I felt like I was really just like starting over, really starting over.

54:13Justin Tranter:And so also, too, in today's world as a musician, it's like there's such this constant need to feed the beast of putting more music out, more content, more music, more content. And when the health has to come first, you know, that must that there's no way that's not in your mind of like, oh, fuck, I've got to get healthy. But also like I'm not feeding the beast. Yes. Yeah. yeah no I I like also don't remember a ton from that time but I was definitely I don't know I look at those songs though and I'm like yeah I was at a very raw I was like at the studs that's great though so yeah that's what I'm trying to get back to or not the sickness but the honesty not the passing out but everything else yeah not the passing out okay we play a little game to end every episode called gag or drag Gag means you love it.

55:07Justin Tranter:Drag means you hate it. Okay, okay. Okay? Yeah. And you can also answer meh if you don't really care. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. So gag you love it, drag you hate it. Okay. Gag or drag having to explain TikTok to your parents? Well. I don't even think my mom knows what TikTok is. Oh, yeah. There's no way. I can't answer that one. Yeah. I don't. Meh, honestly. Yeah. Because you just already kind of know that world. Gotcha. Like a little bit. Fair, yeah. Gag or drag, calling your parent by their first name in work settings. In work settings? Ooh. Do you call him dad in work? I only call him dad. Love it.

55:46Yeah.

55:47Justin Tranter:I think that's so much healthier. I can't say who it is yet, but I'm working on this really cool, sort of Broadway-adjacent thing. Sick. And the person's son is a really successful businessman in his own right, but also helps with his dad's stuff. And he only calls him dad. and it's just so, I think it's so much, we all know. Yeah. So just fucking be real. That's cool. I love it. It just is the truth. Okay, love it. Okay, gag or drag small talk? Oh. Drag. Drag. Oh my God, drag. See, I love, I feel like you and I would have great small talk. I love small talk with someone I can banter with. Yes.

56:28Justin Tranter:Banter fun. And we've gotten way deeper than small talk in this episode. Yeah. I feel like you and I, we started the pigs. you and I could have a fake conversation for 20 minutes and have a blast. So for me, yeah. Small talk is a map because if the person is entertaining, I can go forever. Okay. That's a, that's a good point. That's what like, I always say to like people like in, we'll be like, Oh, do you want to go and have coffee with this artist before you write? And I'm like, no, because I can fucking have a blast with the wall. I need to know if we can write a song together. Yeah. Like I, I would assume you and I would write a great song together because we're We have a blast, but we don't know yet.

57:07Justin Tranter:Because we probably have a blast with this cup of water. Exactly. Okay, gag or drag being told. Oh, this is a good one, Morgan. Morgan writes these, by the way. Gag or drag being told, enjoy being young. A drag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know why. It's just like. Fuck you. Yeah. Yeah, what if being young sucks? Yeah. Yeah. Or it makes me like nerd. All of a sudden I'm thinking about it. I'm like, I have to like savor. Like, I don't know. Yeah. You done? Doesn't apply to me. Meh. Yeah. But when you were young. Oh, okay. Gosh. I would definitely say drag. It's a big drag. Yeah. For me, it was such a drag because I took myself so seriously when I was young, which is hysterical because I take myself the opposite of seriously now.

58:04Justin Tranter:But I took myself, I was so driven. Like you are, I'd be like, you don't understand how intense it is in here. Yes, wisdom. And I was lucky. Like it wasn't mental health. I was very lucky, very blessed. And there was no mental health. It was just, I was so serious. I was like, this is not. No, it's literally the same. This is not fun. 100 % the same. This is not fun. I'm trying to be famous tomorrow. Okay, gag or drag, learning about, this is clearly for you, a gag or drag learning about your child's dating life through songwriting? Oh, gosh. Do you feel like you have very well? I mean, honestly, it's kind of a gag because I already kind of know everything.

58:45And you just get more details. Yeah, exactly. I kind of like knowing what's going on through the songs.

58:51Justin Tranter:It's like reading the diary without actually reading the diary. Yeah, exactly. You didn't have to do all the work in the shadows. Yeah, it's like a proved diary. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, probably like enough too. Like it's probably the perfect amount. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And also thinking about it too, we talked about a little bit before of like the, my parents learned everything, not everything, and they learned a lot about my personal life once my songs were out in the world. In some ways, they probably would prefer to have like a little heads up. Right. Like what are other people going to hear about my child's life?

59:25Yeah, the same time as we do. Yeah.

59:28Justin Tranter:and some of my band songs, I talked about some crazy shit. Dude, I need to get into that. Oh, gag or drag. This applies to both of you. Gag or drag older generations using Gen Z slang. Oh, drag. Oh, drag. Dad, you do. I do know. You so do. I don't go, what's that one? No cap? What's that one? No, that's so old, too. I know it's old, but I never said it. I never said it. For the record. For the record. The first time I heard no cap, this is the accidental theme of the episode, is my brother I don't talk to. He was yelling at me via text, and he said something about cap or no cap. No cap. By the way, he's older than me.

1:00:19Thank you.

1:00:20Justin Tranter:And I was like, what the fuck? Is he wasted? Which he was. but like is this a real thing and read it to one of my friends and they're like oh what because I write with so many young people I normally hear all of that stuff before people my age do somehow I miss that one and so I had to like have a friend like 10 years younger than me that's so funny though like him being this is how your brother's being shady he's calling you a liar him being like pissed though like see everyone let me be like no cap yeah like I don't know that kills me gag or drag people asking who a song is about

1:00:55um I think gag yeah or is it maybe man like it's meh kind of because it depends it depends on who's asking me about who it's about like I don't know but it's usually a fun story like I like talking about the past and like you know the situations that I've been in and so and you can't just like always bring that up with somebody so if somebody wants to bring that up with me that's like that It can be fun.

1:01:22Justin Tranter:Well, yeah. And probably if it was a moment that was, it was a good enough story to write a song about it. Right. So it's probably going to be a good conversation starter. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Oh, gosh. I gag. I like talking about it. Yeah. I like all about mom. Yeah, exactly. Probably. And then to wrap up, we always ask the same question, which is advice on the art of collaboration. But I want to make it more specific for you guys. what would be your advice about collaborating with someone who you are close with personally before you become close as collaborators? And obviously not everyone's going to write songs with their parents, but they, you know, might be with a sibling, a best friend, a partner.

1:02:06Justin Tranter:What advice would you give about navigating the collaboration process with someone who you are close with before collaborating starts? Yeah. I mean, I think for our relationship specifically, like, I think it just is important to like, let all, all judgment leave the room. Like all, you know, just like giving that person space to express whatever they need to express. Because like in a father daughter relationship, you know, I could talk about something and he could be like, you know, have an opinion on it, of course, because it's like his kid. But, you know, like music, if the purpose for me is being as honest as possible and like, you know, just needing to express myself or work through something like that, that's like a very, it has to be a very, very safe place.

1:03:05And so judgment and opinion and all those things, I think for our relationship need to leave the room. Yeah. Because then I will never be able to like, I will never be able to say anything.

1:03:20Justin Tranter:No, you can't write a truthful lyric if you're worried that like - That's not gonna hit anyone. And it's not gonna hit me. It's like, yeah. Cause I mean, I feel like I'm a very hyper aware person too. And I can easily, you know, I can start thinking like, what's their, how are they perceiving me? And how's this person perceiving me? What do they think about that? and like oh I actually think that they would probably not agree with that so let me like cater it to like this thing a little like yeah and I just like then like just cancel everything yeah the art's out the door yeah yeah so just like giving space and let all judgment leave the room and like let just let the music speak because it will yeah yeah I'm definitely a little bit of a purist when it comes to art I feel like whatever comes out needs to come out yep and um I don't like to mess with that i i like for instance like i don't really mess with her lyrics like she said like sometimes at the very end of a whole thing i might be like how about that word and she's like nope but i'm definitely a little bit of a um purist with that i think whatever is inside needs to come out i have no judgment i'm just i'm yeah i love trying to make it sound good i kind of feel like it's this is like a therapy session because i feel like we've never we've never talked about like i need you to right not have any we're learning we're learning we're seen that a lot with people because it's which is why you know the format of this podcast was all Morgan's idea of me talking to two collaborators at one time and it was such a brilliant idea that she had because then we're learning that like not only can you guys tell stories you maybe wouldn't want to tell without your collaborator there but then also like you guys are like having conversations that you've never had before yeah it's very cool it's all Morgan I'm just here to fucking tell embarrassing stories about my brother apparently on that note.

1:05:06Justin Tranter:You're a terrible brother. Justin Oprah Tranter giving therapy sessions to collaborate. This was so, so fun. So fun. I had a really annoying morning and you guys turned it around. This was a blast. Thank you. That makes me so happy. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, hello, everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say please follow and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday.