How Music Gets Into Hit TV Shows | The Hidden Process Behind Prime's "Off Campus" + More

27:50Justin Tranter:What do you think is the most common mistake that pop songwriters and producers make when they are asked to write something original for film and TV? Obviously, you know, pulling a song that's already out and already exists is a whole different conversation. But when pop songwriters are brought in and they're given a brief for the scene, and like, what do you think, if anyone watching this trying to land that big original sync could learn from? What is the biggest mistake that me and my friends make? I don't think this is... You don't make mistakes. But listen, writing for film and TV is a very different beast, and I'm getting better at it every time I do a new project, but it's still really different.

28:35Justin Tranter:In pop, you maybe have to, the artist has to love it, maybe their manager has a say, and maybe their A &R. There's three people. An original song for film and TV has to serve so many different masters. The director, the story, the picture, the actor. So if there's any advice that you think you could give to people coming from the pop space that they don't understand about film and TV, what would it be? So this is not a mistake that people make, but I do think something that people don't appreciate is just how different the music industry works from the TV. And TV specifically, I mean, I work a lot more in TV, so I can't speak to film quite as much.

29:13But TV, just A, I think timeline and schedule I think it's like people don't understand how fast we move in TV. And I mean, even like Girl That I Am, which was an original song that Amy Allen wrote, which is incredible. And she's so good at writing. She's my best of all time.

29:34Justin Tranter:That is my mom. She wants us to all go. And I think, but like even that, and we had more time to work on that song again, because we were brought in early. because we had all the scripts and like we had more time than is usual to work on that song and it still was like a couple of weeks tops from like the first time we talked to amy until we were shooting it wow like and it that so it just moves really fast yeah and i think that is something that can really throw like people who aren't used to that so when it was like if there was like notes from our showrunner it wasn't like okay you have on your own time to fix these when you want And it was like, no, no, we need, we need like a new round tomorrow.

30:16Like we need a new pass of this now. And then I also, to that point, I think it's like, I think the best versions that I've seen of original songs that get written, it's by people who understand the material the best. So it's like, if you are given, if you're lucky enough to get scripts, if you're lucky enough to get a, have a call or a Zoom or a conversation with the showrunner or the director or the writer or us, it's like really listening and asking questions. If you aren't sure of what the song needs to accomplish. because I've said this all the time where like original songs for TV, there's so much scaffolding in them.

30:47Like they have to do so many things for the plot and for the character. And like, there's so many specifics that are tied to visuals that they have to do and tied to moving plot forward and tied to character development that you just never have to deal with that when you're writing an original, like a song for your artist project. You're just vibing. Yeah, it's a different thing. It's true. And so it's, there's so much harder to get all of that in. and it's really, I think that like people who do well with like being put in a box and that like unlocks their creativity. I think that's where people who really excel at that type of songwriting.

31:20And knowing how to take all that information and like, which is I think honestly what Amy and Ethan Grushka who worked on it as well did so well is like we gave a lot and that's one thing that like Louisa as a showrunner is so communicative and like has such a vision and like wants to talk about all of these things and wants to share and I think what was you know what Amy and Ethan did really incredibly was like distilled all of this information that we gave and wasn't and didn't think in terms of okay I need to hit this I need to hit this I need I need to like this to be very clear here and that to be like they took it all and then like understood were able to keep what really were like latch onto what really worked about it and then like that was I think where the great collaboration happened too was like there were tweaks and that was where it was really helpful to be like okay like this like these two lines could could be more connected or like we're not sure about like we were in and this is where like we we got really granular where it was like but they she was they were able to really capture like distill this all this information into a great song but then from there it was like tweaking these small parts which again alana was really helpful with there she is um and uh like continuing to to get really granular of the changes and like these two words or these two lines and like can this be more like this and this to fit story or fit character or that yeah

32:50Justin Tranter:like it was a really interesting process no it is i i learn every day i'm working on two movies right now finishing them both and trying to explain to the pop producers collaborating with me that like if you're agreeing to do something for film and TV it is a job job. Like there are a hundred people if not more waiting for these notes to be made and like I know that you're living it up in a different country right now but if you don't send me the new stems we're going to lose the spot and I think it's It is interesting. What's great about film and TV, unlike pop music, is that it's going to pay you no matter what, which then makes it a job, right?

33:37Justin Tranter:Because pop music, we go to work for free every single day, right? We only make money if the song makes money. Whereas in film and TV, there's kill fees, there's demo fees, there's all these different things that you are not guaranteed in pop music. But I think a lot of people from pop were so used to working for free that we don't care about your timeline. but in film and TV it is a job. Morgan wrote a really great question. It's specifically about the J-Lo song, but it's to zoom out in a bird's eye view situation of when the script calls for such an iconic song, right? A legendary song. If the writer or the label or the artist says no, you can't have that song.

34:27Justin Tranter:Right. So in the script for Off Campus, did it say the J-Lo song or did you guys pitch that? That was in the script. That was in the script. That whole beat was scripted. Shout out to our incredible writers who we love. So then walk anybody watching at home who doesn't understand the process. So the script says on the floor J-Lo, iconic, to Africa. Legendary. Then what is your job from that moment? Well, I think that, I'll start and then I'm, it's like the script said, not just the song was being played, but also that Ali was going to be wearing the Versace dress and Sean is dressed as Ben Affleck.

35:07And then Ali also says, this is me now, which is another reference to J-Lo in the script. So that was kind of what came to us where we kind of, we look at all of that holistically. So all of those pieces were there in the script. I'm going to kick it to Anna. Yeah. So, I mean, we're really, really strategic about how we clear things in general. I think most music supervisors are and most clearance people are. But we... And if you're not, you should be. That's my hot advice for everyone today.

35:38Justin Tranter:Educate the people. It's my hot education for clearance is be strategic. We're so lucky. I mean, we're so lucky on off campus that even before it was out because of the books and just because of the buzz and excitement, Like that's a show that generally speaking, people were excited to be a part of. I mean, we work on a lot of horror and serial killer and like darker material things where we are often clearing like iconic older copyrights for like gruesome scenes. So we have a lot of experience of how to kind of sell those and gauge interest. Big Mouth where it was like, you know, like that was on the other spectrum of like, but it all falls under the we have a lot of experience really trying to convince people to use their big songs and some really crazy things yeah okay so how do you pitch to me you're gonna try to convince me to use justin bieber sorry which i co-wrote thank you um you're gonna you're gonna try to pitch me to use justin bieber sorry in like a mass murder scene well we could do the mass murder or Or do you want to do, well, okay, we can do mass murder.

36:47Yeah, we can do that. You brought up horror. My mass murder approach. Well, I would be like, okay, what is the show? What are the themes? What it's about? So I would be like.

36:59Justin Tranter:Yeah, come on. Well, first I'd be like, well, how gruesome. I'd talk to them and be like, how gruesome is this murder scene? How much blood do we see? Is it like really bloody or is it sort of like implied mass murder? So I'd start with like, what are we seeing on screen? and like then go from there and let's say it's like really gruesomely horrific, I would be like, well, who's murdering who, right? I think that's kind of where it starts. I think honestly, yeah, if we were pitching you specifically. Yes, please, please. I think I would, we would do an analogy, we would talk about the themes of the murder and why it's happening and kind of break that down.

37:34And then I would maybe create some sort of analogy of like, this is just like when, you know, a songwriter is in a session and is getting notes that are really bad. And like, you're like, I just want to get out of here. And like, this is speaking to that feeling and this is speaking to that emotion. And we really think that you would so appreciate that. And like, this is, we're all talking about the same thing here. We're all talking about, you know. But also it's like, it's like the show is like, you know, it's like this creator, don't you really want to be a part of the show? This is the cast.

38:03It's like a prestige show. Like, look at all the awards that this person has, you know, this person has got in the past for their awful, horrible, horror things. Like, you know, don't you want to be a part of it? And like, yeah, the context of the murder and like that, like here's the greater theme. So this is like really bloody, but actually like you're part of a show that's like speaking to oppression. Like, I don't know. That's what the series explores. If anyone's trying to pitch to me,

38:34Justin Tranter:just say there's a gay character, cleared. Yeah. Immediately cleared. Support the community. um no so what what then what do you do if the showrunner or the director or an executive whoever is telling you we want this song if you know there isn't the budget for it or the artist almost never clears what how we're we're very lucky with our we're a new podcast but we the fan base we're building are people really trying to learn right so as collaborators if someone says to you hey we please go get this song for this scene and you guys are like this is probably not going to happen what conversation are you two having to try to navigate that situation well we're kind of talking about what we just did where we're like okay we i mean holistically i think with there are creatives when that is the case like i try not to always i try to always manage expectations with my creatives and but also never be too negative so in that situation I would be honest that like hey historically this is a really difficult person to clear we're always happy to try but just in the spirit of like so you're not surprised like these are the things we should be aware of with this artist or this scene you know like I'm concerned about this scene and this artist but we usually always like say yes to trying and so and always frame that information from a like hey, we're just trying to manage expectations here and not like this will never work.

40:04And then between us, we then will talk a lot of, similarly to what we just did with this. How you're going to pitch it. But like, you know, with more specifics of like, okay, what is the show? Like, what is, you know, how should we approach this? What makes sense? That's the other piece of advice is like, we also, we try really hard. Like we really try really hard to get everything that our showrunners and directors want. Cool. and I don't think we even if it's something that we're like this will never clear we still will spend so much time and energy trying to make it happen until the very end and you start to make up backup plans and you have you know if this doesn't come through we're going to go to this one and you have to cover your bases and you have to do your job and you can't you know you have to manage expectations but I also think we really never give up on trying to get the yes even we I never phone it in, even when we think it's like probably going to be a no, because then it's like.

40:58And sometimes that works on it, like genuinely. Sometimes that works, which is why you have to do it. But yeah, I'm always like sort of like like, let's say we get down. If it's something someone really wants, let's say like we get to the finish line. And like this is I don't think ever happened in my career. But I try to think like, what if that like producer or person is like, well, show me what you said. Show me how hard you tried. And I always am like, I want to I want to be able to say. and be say and not lie to say like I truly did everything possible to try to get this song and like look here it is and again nobody has ever taken me to task no one's ever actually been like send me what you sent for this so I can check your work but you know I'm always like what if today's the day so like I always want to like make sure I really can you guys it doesn't have to be for

41:46Justin Tranter:off campus it can be at any any point of your both of your amazing careers can you think of a moment where like you got a song that you didn't think you were going to be able to get? Like what's your most like I fucking kicked ass in this moment? I'm trying to think. I can say, this is just coming to mind because it's very current. I'm currently working on an indie film that has, you know, no money. And I will say it has been, there are so many songs in my first meeting with the director, they were like, I want this and I want this and I want this. And I was like, yeah, these are all great songs.

42:25And there is that space, I also think, that happens so much in our job where there is a lesser known artist that everyone thinks is like, oh, this will be no money and I'm discovering this person. You're like, yeah, they're signed to Interscope. Like, this is not, you know, they're up and coming and they're really, not everyone knows them, but like, they're definitely not free. Yeah. And also, I think a lot of artists are wise to sync these days. So like really indie artists have sync companies. Yeah, truly. Which is, I like really, really great. And that like makes everyone's, it's like a benefit to everybody involved in the process.

42:57And that's a smart band. Yeah. Yeah. What? Sorry. Oh, no, please. Oh, well, I was just. Oh, the director had all these ideas. And I will say, I do think this is kind of an interesting thing of like I've been in this studio space for so long and I've been doing much bigger budget projects for so long and I've learned so much about how to negotiate these deals and like what levers I can pull and how to go about these things in this much larger scale thing that I actually think a lot of indie films aren't used to having someone that operates on that like bigger level. Yeah. And I have been really bullying people into getting really good fees on some of these artists.

43:34Cool. And I have been like, oh, if we can pull it off, this will be like really cool. We're going to get some cool music in here, which will be fun.

43:41Justin Tranter:I can't wait to see this movie and hear all the amazing songs. Okay. I had one situation a few years ago where I'm like thinking it through as I'm saying it to be like, is there anything that I shouldn't say? What am I allowed to say? There was this movie, honestly, maybe like 10 years ago. It was a while ago. And there was this like Brazilian song cover that was with a label. And the label was just like, I don't know. I can't like, I like can't get a hold of them or like it's not going to work. It's not going to work. and I ended up like tracking down the like wife. The nephew, I think. No, this was the, oh, do you know which one I'm talking about?

44:23But yeah, I ended up connecting with the like wife of one of the players who, and this was like a song from the 60s. So she was like an older woman. And it was like, they were like mad. They were like mad at the label. So they were like with, like - They were in a bad deal. It was, they were in a bad deal with the label from the 60s. again this was like i'll say that you don't have to they like basically like the wife was like this was a bad label deal that my husband's man did in the 60s whenever it was i don't want to say yes out of principle and i like had to be prepared for everybody i was like they're not going to say yes like i i like i don't solve label deal i know like i i know but i i at the time i just like begged i was like is there anything and we had money in the budget and i was like is there anything we can do to get you to say yes like what if we like did this where you're getting this the label's getting this and she finally was like okay okay and then the label was like okay but like we can't it was like okay fine we heard from this person we still can't find the other two members of this band and then we tracked them both of them down on facebook and we're like here label like no way and we got the song and i was just like yeah come on guys that that is a big positive to social

45:39Justin Tranter:media yeah come on so much more than you think i had two things this week that i got done by chasing a songwriter on instagram no way honestly a lot that happens often i will say it happens often yeah that i mean part of the job it's all part of the job the speaking of social media multiple extremely viral moments from off campus um to the point where like there was a performance on stage based on the dance from the show, right? Do I have - I was crazy that actually my brain was like, which one are you referring to? Because there is now like Belmont and Kid Leroy and then Ella Bright and Suki Waterhouse.

46:23I'm like, now there's more than one of that, which is so crazy.

46:27Justin Tranter:How does that feel? I have two questions. I'm saying that out loud so I don't forget. How does it, first one is just emotionally from you two, how does it feel to be a part of specifically the music from this show that has now taken on an entire life of its own? And as I mentioned at the beginning, changing artists' lives and then all these different viral moments. How does it feel sitting at home, doom scrolling, and then just like every seventh TikTok is something that you were a part of? Like what is going through your minds oh it i mean it feels it feels really really incredible to be on a show that like celebrated music discovery and then to see that pan out in this way and i mean kind of the way you started this which is like we love those artists we've been fans for so long we are so we loved that carol album when it came out and so it was like so validating to be able to share those especially those like more it's like i don't even want to say up and coming because there's certainly like established artists but it's been really really special i think they're not household names right yeah yeah that's been so incredible and it's kind of what i think a lot of people get into music supervision to do is this idea like i'm gonna break a band or i'm gonna like use my music taste or do something special that like people will notice and i think it's so so rare that for so many reasons it's so rare that that is the result of a show you work on and so it is this unicorn that we keep talking about and we've been, it feels so validating and inspiring and also like affirming of this job that I do that it's very easy to get very jaded, very, like it's really easy to get like ground down by the entertainment industry and TV.

48:14Justin Tranter:Well, I also feel like jobs like music supervision that is such a creative job but then there's also like the bullshit office part that is just as important. Most of the job. Right. Is the bullshit office. I mean, I think it like feels, it feels, do it back to this. Like, it just feels really incredible. And I think one of the things that like made the show good and has made the feeling good is that like every, and in the spirit of collaboration, which is what we're all talking about is that it was a really like led by Louisa. It was such a collaborative experience. And so like now it's like a, the things that are going viral, the like Belmont thing, like the cast, like we've talked to them and they're like, honestly, like the, the fact that the music is going as big as it is, like, they're loving it.

48:57Like, they're so into it. Yeah. And then, like, that part of it and the viral of it all, like, and in addition to this, we're all sharing all the videos constantly. It's like us and Alana. We have so many. And, like, the editors and the showrunner, we're all, like, sharing these all, and the vibe is like, oh, my God, this is so exciting. Oh, my God, this is so exciting. Like, we're all, like, just genuinely, like, I'm, like, on Instagram messaging with Ella when we first saw the Audrey Hobert thing, she's like, no, seriously, I'm crying. I'm like, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this. Like, we're all just like nerding out of it and we're doing it together, which is like, makes it so fun and just like, just makes it feel that much better that we feel so connected to everybody, everybody else on the show in that way.

49:43And that like, and that like almost, that like never happens.

49:47Justin Tranter:As music supervisors now, how often are people in meetings, in calls, in texts saying, hey, can you help us go viral? Like, is the conversation, because obviously in pop music, the conversation of virality haunts us all 24 hours a day. It's a haunted house of praying to the TikTok algorithm. You know, like, how much has that conversation affected your business now? I would say I don't specifically going viral. I don't get that pressure or feeling that much. But something I have noticed, and I think off campus is a good example of this is like the in general, everyone is so marketing focused. And I think that was something that we really beat like, I think off campus is the best version of it, where marketing is so involved, the studio marketing team is so involved.

50:43but that kind of led to more money and more access to things that we got to do all these really special things like have this incredible deluxe soundtrack album where Suki did a cover and then that leads to Ella going like there's so many things that we got to do that ultimately only really came about because people were focused on marketing but like it it this is the best version of it where I think it yielded some very creative like outputs and like tangible things of like there are like songs that got written and created that would not have got written and created yeah if not for that so it's i think this is the best version of it i've seen a lot of times too where yeah like things feel very forced or you're kind of when this seemed like stuff was happening

51:25Justin Tranter:organically and then you just pour gas on the fire yeah that's exactly what happened yeah and like we i haven't been hearing this like go viral go viral but i mean like if i did i mean we we've worked on shows in the past where everyone was like i want the music to feel fresh i want to feel fresh and new and it's like every time and i say this like now working on something where it did go viral and things were successful it was such a combination of so many factors yeah like i don't want to be like we were just so brilliant picking great music and it was so hard to predict like the kid the roy thing i would if you if you gave me a list of every song in the show which was like probably 100 and you told me to rank them and which ones i would think would go big Like, Hilderoy would be, like, bottom 10.

52:06And also, nobody expected the Baby Now That I Found You cover that Ella did to be the, like, big pop off the soundtrack. And it just really took, like, A, the showrunners advocating for music. Like, we started this conversation. They advocated hard for music in the beginning. They advocated for the studio. Amazon was incredibly supportive of all of this from the jump. They knew they were making a music show. So the showrunners, the editors, like they knew like everybody. It was no, you know, like no egos. Like it was everybody was open. Like then we've worked with, we were tons of editors who will just put the songs that they like in.

52:46And like, no, our editors absolutely have incredible music taste, but they were so open to hear from us. They loved getting music from us. And they were like, if we had notes, they were open to them. and then like and yeah and louisa just from the beginning we had these big needle drops we had the on the floor and the script babe now that i found you but then also knew it was going to be like wanted it to be a music discovery show and then then it came out and then all the artists organically jumped into the conversation and that like from indies to elton to warren when i

53:21Justin Tranter:craziness when I saw because I saw it on the beaches TikTok of them that like the band gets talked about in the scene and they're very close friends of mine and I was like I am the happiest I've been in a week because I love them so much I can't imagine how y 'all feel having that moment happen yeah that was i mean that one was so so like validating and so great to have it be such a big moment too and have that song be so big for them because we did put a lot of like a lot of people worked a lot on that spot and what that song was and then also again to like we had been trying to find spots for beaches for a while in the show and there were a couple of times where we got close and then it didn't happen and they would have been like like it was they were such good sports cool in so many ways early on for things that didn't quite end up happening that it really was so great to like find a spot where we were like okay now we can like we can make this great thing happen and we can like get it to the finish line and it was just so great because you think about like how that came up and like the name call of the band and all of that and like that could like the between like the showrunners in the studio that could have gotten so many notes and directions and like you know like you have it to be this person have it be that person and like everybody, like that's what I mean, like I think that like part of the reason A, it was successful and B, and it feels so special is that like every person along the line really just supported the vision.

54:51Yeah. And like then of course people watched it because you could have the best show, you could have the best music supervision in a show. Best soundtrack of all time. Best soundtrack of all time. No, truly. And if nobody watches the show then nothing's gonna go viral. And like, so I just, it really was such a magical like so many parts of that going so right um yeah like that really and just that that spot ended up being a like lesser known artist or like a lesser known song i mean there were a lot of conversations early on where that spot was like a coachella headliner a big that was a bigger artist which would have been also really cool but i think it it ended up yeah it was really special that that ended up evolving into something where you get to say the artist's name in dialogue, which never happens.

55:37And it gets to be something that people maybe haven't heard before. And then you hear the song at the end and you see the album artwork. It's so special. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, like everyone wanted Hannah to be cool. Like everyone was like, we want Hannah to be a cool music person. So who's a cool band? Also, yeah, it goes like, yes, it's like breaking indie band. How cool is that? But like, it also came from like, we were all like, it needed to connect to her character and what we wanted the audience to think about her character, which was that she comes from classical music, but she wrote pop in high school.

56:08But she has it in her, but she doesn't. But we wanted the audience to look at her and be like, okay, she's a cool college music kid. And what would that be?

56:17Justin Tranter:Yeah. Okay, so we have to wrap up quickly. And we normally play a game at the end of every episode, but you're both very legendary music supervisors. And so I want people watching this here, but also specifically at home. If someone wants to be a music supervisor, how the fuck do you get that job? It's not the exhausted exhale. Like luck. That's how it happens. It does. It is a lot of luck. It's so much luck, I think. I mean, it's. If you could do it in. We could give some. constructive advice yeah if in two minutes you could eat how about this how did you two minute version for both of you how did you actually get into this awesome awesome job okay i think i think maybe the best advice i can give is to also go kind of macro with it which is i think and it's probably advice that applies to like any music or tv or film thing you're trying to get into which is like get as close to the action as you can on your own and then just be super prepared and super ready to take advantage of any opportunity that comes what was your first job in film and tv i my first job was i worked for a music lawyer and honestly like that maybe that's also good advice which is like the the sexiest job of being a music supervisor or sorry i worked for a music attorney is that what i said out loud yeah okay music lawyer music lawyer yeah so like the the Everybody wants to be a coordinator for a music supervisor and go that road.

57:56But it's those jobs are so hard to get. And the closest that I could get on my own was working for a music attorney. And I did that for three years.

58:04Justin Tranter:That's really good advice. And then find a job close to what you want until you get your dream job. And then I worked with a lot of music supervisors from that job. Then there was an opening at Neophonic and I got in and then I met Amanda there. and then kind of and just sticking with it also I think people I think it's a slow road and being ready for that it's not an overnight job I think I was an assistant at a I like worked at this lawyer's office for three years I was a coordinator for like three or four years then I was co-supervising now I'm supervising like it takes a long time to work your way through and part of that is like there's a lot of reasons why that is and part of it is gatekeeping but part of it is also just like that's how long it takes to learn to do the job and I think embracing that side of it too like not expecting to get farther and not like being overly like like overly aggressive with trying to move through it because you'll miss things and you won't learn as much as you could be learning from the people around you and you won't be ready when like the bigger opportunity comes you've done you've said it all I don't know what I even add to that okay Well, really quick, what was your first job in the music business?

59:16I also worked for a music lawyer.

59:19Justin Tranter:Whoa. That's the advice. That's the advice. That's a big common denominator. Don't skip the business side, you know, and like really know your shit there. And can we swear on this podcast? I just did. You heard me, girl. Okay. Just like, I just like, it came out and I was like, oh. But I do think that like having talked to a lot of people over the years, it is like, I want to like highlight what Anna said. I mean, everything Anna said, I would like to highlight and like underline. But I also do think it's like it is really hard to get those jobs and get like the coordinator job. Like do do take what you can and always be and always use where you are.

59:59And not in a not in a crazy, like, you know, disrespectful way. Like, don't be like if you're working for a publisher, don't be like side emailing people like crazy, like do lunches. But I do think that so many people get to the like ancillary job and are so impatient to get to the job they want. They don't stop and look around or they're like they're they're like so eager. Like this is such a close knit community. So if you're not like meeting your peers in wherever you are, whether you're working for music lawyers or whether you're at like a trailer company or whether you're doing like licensing administration for a label, like there are people to be meeting in your company, outside for company, like using your peers.

1:00:45Like so many of my like incredible friends who I've known forever are here. And like the peer network is so strong. And I just always like tell people to lean into that. And like, and yeah, don't, don't rush. Cause like, I will smell it on you. Like people who are supervisors, they smell it. People who have done it for a long time, they smell the people who rush. They smell the people who like don't say they know how to clear a song and then you give them a task and they fall right apart. Like really make sure you know what you're doing. Can I add one more thing? Do we have time? So I also think this is something that I've been learning at this like seven, 10 years in at this stage of my career, which is, I think it's, it's so hard to get these jobs and you have to be like don't skip the business side like learn all of that like take your time and everything i think something i'm learning now though of like what it takes to keep this job is like is also holding on to the love of music yeah yeah which feels insane to say but i just think it's so so easy to start to see this job as a job and as a business thing and i think i it's so easy to get burnt out on that and also not do your best work yeah i think like off campus being a good example of it is a show that really reminded me how much i love all of these bands and love all these music and it made me want to work harder and it made me not care that i was working until 1am and working on weekends and like it just made it so much it's so much more enjoyable experience experience and there's like easier ways to make more money yeah like if you don't hold on to the like love of music or whatever reason it is that you got into it then yeah i think whatever reason you got into it is also just like a valid thing because like yes off campus did like reinvigorate but it was also like just a reminder of like oh my god like you like people are there are great collaborators and like that yeah like it reminded me as like a boss and a collaborator of like when you people feel like valued and you take care of people and you create a good team like it's just like better for everybody like you know just like the value in that but also yeah like and like loving that like that collaborate like the best version of collaboration is one of the reasons why I got into this and why I've stayed in it like I love this community like I love music but I also like think I've stayed because I love the people here and that I think is like that's what I love about it and like off campus reminded me of that as well.

1:03:10So just love what you do.

1:03:12Justin Tranter:Amanda and Anna, everybody. Oh, you can do better than that. Come on.

1:03:23Justin Tranter:Hello. Hello. Everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say, please follow and subscribe to this podcast, wherever you listen. So you don't miss future conversations and also pretty, please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday. I see you. Avatar Fire and Ash is now streaming on Disney+. It's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet. Go, go, go, go! A true epic and completely jaw-dropping. This is the only purest thing in this world. Return to Pandora on Disney+. It will be an adventure for the whole family.

1:04:06and watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick!

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