In short
Kid Cudi and collaborator Justin (from the Free album) discuss collaborating on Free, trusting vocal risks, writing around obstacles (studio choice, Cudi’s injury), and preparing for the Free on Tour lineup. They also cover Cudi’s creative process, streaming studio sessions, and why he prioritizes artist identity over “timeless” mass sound.
Guests
Kid Cudi (solo artist/producer; known for writing 12+ albums; discusses his foot injury, vocal goals, and touring). Justin (co-writer/producer on Free; emphasizes collaboration mechanics like reference tracks and giving Cudi space to record).
Key claims
Cudi credits Jean Baptiste as an OG advisor who encouraged opening to co-writers and led to Justin. Cudi says injury motivated him and that vocal coaching (Chloe) enabled higher-demand singing. Justin says Cudi’s superpower is making collaborators sound like themselves while keeping Cudi’s singular voice.
Notable examples
“Saltwater” and “Mr. Miracle” as back-to-back Free bangers; writing in Cudi’s cozy home after rejecting a studio; writing half the album with a boot; Chloe’s vocal-tech coaching; tour guests M.I.A., Big Boy, Me and You, Dr. Genius, A-Track; fans singing “Mr. Miracle” word-for-word from a short film.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Art of Collaboration
0:03 to 0:32
Justin Tranter and Kid Cudi discuss the importance of collaboration in their work.
“So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for.”
The Art of Collaboration
0:57 to 2:20
Justin Tranter and Kid Cudi discuss the importance of collaboration in their work.
“This podcast is called Unfamous because it is about the art of collaboration.”
Creating 'Free' Together
2:20 to 4:25
Cudi reflects on the collaborative process behind his album 'Free' and his chemistry with Justin.
“But after we did Saltwater, the wheels started turning.”
Opening Up to Co-Writing
4:25 to 6:28
Cudi shares his journey of embracing co-writing and trusting collaborators.
“But when I already had the idea to do the pop album, it was like, oh, this is a different situation.”
A Cozy Writing Environment
6:28 to 8:10
Cudi and Tranter recount their first writing session and the importance of a comfortable space.
“And you walked in and you're like, I don't like this room.”
Overcoming Injury During Creation
8:10 to 9:52
Cudi discusses how he managed to write while dealing with an injury during the album process.
“You've written enough songs that you know what you like.”
Overcoming Injury During Creation
9:57 to 10:28
Cudi discusses how he managed to write while dealing with an injury during the album process.
“When you're 7-Eleven's hottest fire chicken sandwich, people think you're intense.”
Finding Motivation in Adversity
10:45 to 14:00
Cudi talks about how his injury motivated him to focus on his music and prepare for tour.
“And I see people just living their lives.”
Vocal Challenges and Trusting the Process
14:00 to 18:00
Learn about the vocal challenges faced in creating music and the importance of trusting collaborators during the creative process.
“But this album in particular, like the things that were demanded of me vocally were just like nothing I've ever experienced before.”
Finding Personal Voice and Collaboration
18:30 to 28:00
Explore the balance of collaboration and personal expression in music production, particularly in Kid Cudi’s work.
“like I can mimic and like do my impression of you, you know what I mean?”
Show all 27 chapters
The Emotional Journey of 'Saltwater'
28:00 to 30:10
Kid Cudi discusses the emotional significance of his song 'Saltwater' and its connection to his journey.
“Yeah, it was just like, it was understood.”
Proud Moments and Personal Growth
30:11 to 32:40
Cudi reflects on what makes him feel proud and how he stands for what's right.
“And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show.”
Creative Exploration and Upcoming Projects
33:33 to 38:20
Kid Cudi shares insights into his creative process and new album projects he's working on.
“So I just know that, that I'm just really lucky to have met some really awesome people spending my time in Los Angeles.”
Streaming Music Creation Live
38:20 to 42:01
Cudi discusses his decision to stream his music creation process and the excitement of sharing that experience.
“So I've been listening to a lot of Maisie Star.”
Creating Music and Collaborating
42:01 to 43:09
Learn about the collaborative process and creativity in music production.
“Like, nobody is like, does he even make these songs?”
Childlike Wonder in the Studio
43:10 to 45:25
Discover the importance of having an open mind and a playful attitude in collaboration.
“and even some of the stuff on Free, was I would hum a melody and he would play the guitar to the melody.”
The Freedom of Being an Artist
45:26 to 47:28
Explore the liberation of creating music without constraints and the joy of artistic expression.
“What is like your, so you need someone who has that childlike wonder who's gonna be Dora the Explorer.”
Life as a Constant Creator
47:29 to 49:48
Understand the mindset of a prolific creator and the drive behind constant creation.
“She's like, you're the only man I know that'll get off an 11-hour flight from Paris and then go to the studio as soon as you live.”
Living the Dream and Overcoming Fear
49:49 to 52:25
Hear about the journey of overcoming self-doubt and embracing opportunities in art.
“Like this was the dream that I thought could never happen.”
The Importance of Art Beyond Sales
52:26 to 56:00
Learn how the impact of music transcends sales figures and critical reviews.
“And I'm - Well, you're making a whole last movie before you go on tour?”
Music Reviews and Artist Recognition
56:00 to 58:23
Learn about the importance of music reviews and how they signify an artist's impact.
“And I know the shit is ill, and I don't need nobody else.”
Game: Gag or Drag - Artists Testing Songs
58:23 to 58:59
Explore the fun of artists testing unfinished songs on tour and fan reactions.
“Okay, so to wrap up every episode, we play a little game called gag or drag.”
Gag or Drag: Fan Engagement at Shows
58:59 to 1:02:31
Discuss preferences regarding fan interactions during live performances.
“I told you, set us an hour and 45 minutes.”
The Evolution of Pursuit of Happiness
1:02:31 to 1:04:51
Understand the transformation of the song 'Pursuit of Happiness' and its impact.
“And all the people that I've done episodes with, they always mention the deep cut.”
Gag or Drag: Trends in Music Industry
1:04:51 to 1:06:41
Discuss the challenges and trends in the music industry, including song lengths.
“the label was like, all right, we need another one, we need another one.”
The Importance of Work Ethic in Creativity
1:06:41 to 1:09:22
Learn why a strong work ethic is crucial for success in creative fields.
“ah, yes, I got a five-minute song that I can listen to on repeat over and over, rather than a two-minute and 30-second song that's going to be over in a second.”
Kid Cudi's Energetic Introduction
1:10:00 to 1:10:13
Kid Cudi is introduced with an enthusiastic tone, highlighting his charisma.
“Ladies, gentlemen, everyone in between, Kid Cudi!”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.
0:32that's the sound of zero sugar 200 milligrams of caffeine and the power to burn body fat storm energy for life storm energy blend helps boost metabolism which in combination with exercise and a healthy diet helps burn fat this product alone does not produce weight loss individual results may vary i go to sleep at night loving that shit like yeah motherfucker guess what you gonna write about me you gonna write about me
0:57Justin Tranter:Hello and welcome to Unfamous. This podcast is called Unfamous because it is about the art of collaboration. The unsung and the untold stories of how shit that we love actually happened. I am honored to be sitting here today with someone I am cool enough to call a friend. Someone I'm lucky enough to call a collaborator. The one and only kid motherfucking Cudi. Give it up. Give it up. Yeah. Justin, I adore you. I adore you. And my wife, I told her I was doing this. Yeah, where is she? She was like, I love Justin. She's at work. Oh, fair, fair. But she was like, I love Justin. Please tell him I said hello.
1:41Justin Tranter:Well, send all of my love. Will do. So there's a million podcasts. You're about to have one. Yeah. We all want to try to find our angle in. And I feel like what I do the best in this world and what I love the most in this world is collaborating. And we all get to talk about the process on our own. But I want to talk about the process with two collaborators. So normally on the podcast, there are two people sitting here. But since you and I have co-written, we don't need other motherfuckers. It's just... We've done this. We've done this. so we can just talk about our process um what do you feel like on the last album free that i was lucky enough to be a big part of what do you feel like was the moment in the album that you were like oh shit this is the posse this is the team i want to collaborate with to make this i think because we did saltwater first right first day we met first second we met Well, we re-met because we have another history, but we'll get to that later.
2:52Justin Tranter:Yeah, we'll get to that later. But after we did Saltwater, the wheels started turning. And then, because like when you work with people, it's like, what is it? Like you get, sometimes you get one session that's great. You do another session because you're hyped and then nothing comes out of it. Fuck this bitch. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But like, so like we had that one and then I was like, man, we had such good chemistry creating that record and I know he has a team of people that he builds records with. Let me get in another session with him and see what we cook. Yeah. I feel really good that we'll be able to find something.
3:32Justin Tranter:Yeah. You know? And it was really after that second session, I can't remember what songs we came up with. I want to say maybe Mr. Miracle. Mr. Miracle was second. Yeah, we came out swinging. Yeah. First was Saltwater, Water and Mr. Miracle. I mean, like back-to-back bangers. And I think that was right when I realized the formula was working. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And for me, as someone who's written 12 albums solo, you know, it was exciting to have other minds to bounce ideas off of. what made what do you what why do you think as someone who's known as a prolific brilliant solo writer what made you go okay fuck it this time i want to co-write well it was jean baptiste give it up for jean baptiste genius he yeah man thank you thank you everybody that's family man and like i always turn to him for advice and you know i was talking with him about you know just the next direction and he was saying like yo man maybe you might want to open it up to working with some writers you know and i was like man i don't know man i made a really big deal about having songwriters having writers and music and shit like that but i came from it was more from a hip-hop place right you know i mean because you know hip-hop is very much like you need to sit your ass down in a room by yourself and write your own shit yeah you know because you're telling your story.
5:06But when I already had the idea to do the pop album, it was like, oh, this is a different situation. Like almost every big pop song I've ever heard has had people writing on it, you know, multiple writers. And I just, from there, I was like, okay, Jaune's kind of guiding me and I trust him. And he mentioned you. He was the first person he mentioned. And I was like, I know Justin. I was like, but do you think he would want to fuck with me? And he was like, of course, bro. He said, of course. Let me reach out. You, of course, said you were down. But I remember you told me when he first hit you up, you were like, you kind of had the same thing.
5:52Like, Kenny knows I do like pop music, right? Are you sure he wants me to show up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it was a beautiful thing because that's the good thing about having an OG or a close friend, somebody that you can trust. A long-time collaborator. You know what I mean? That you can listen to and can guide you. Because if I didn't have Jaune, I don't think I would have taken that direction. Right. You know?
6:20Justin Tranter:Yeah. I mean, I'll never forget our first moment writing together. We walked into a studio on the west side. And you walked in and you're like, I don't like this room. Fuck this room. And I was like, oh, God, okay. It's all about the feng shui, you know? It's got to have the vibes. It was like an old school studio where there's this huge live room that we're not going to write in. Because that would be crazy to sit in a little circle and hold hands. I mean, it could be fabulous. But it was just a long, narrow room. And you were like, no, fuck this. Let's just go back to my house. Yeah. And I was like, okay, so we just, and you don't live close.
6:58No, it was a fucking journey. It was a fucking journey. It was like from Hollywood back to Calabasas or some shit like that. It was long. During like rush hour time. Literally.
7:07Justin Tranter:So then we just like sat in your car for at least minimum an hour to get back. And it was worth it though. It was worth it. Cause then like we actually got, we got to know each other a little bit. Yeah. Before we just started writing a song. yeah so it was like a an accident like a perfect mistake of like fuck this studio this is uncomfortable let's just drive for an hour yeah and then start writing and it works out great well i want to i like to i like to be cozy i like to be cozy i like to feel a vibe when i'm in the studio and in that point in that moment i was like look we're gonna waste time trying to find to another studio.
7:49Justin Tranter:Right. I have a setup at my house. That's the most coziest place I know. Yep. Let's just go there. Yeah. You know? And you were down. Yeah, it was awesome. Even though it was an hour ride out there. And Jaune had to like reroute his way to get to us because you were like, no, I'm not staying at this fucking studio. Yeah. I'm very particular, guys. But it's good. You've written enough songs that you know what you like. Yeah. Then we had another insane obstacle for the back half of the songs we wrote together. You were injured. Yes. So then like you wrote and recorded the back half of the album like on a couch because we couldn't.
8:32Justin Tranter:With my foot up. With your foot up because we couldn't get you into the vocal booth. Yeah. Because you were. And then at my studio, there's like a weird gravel way to get to the studio. And I have my little scooter. So you're in your fucking. The knee rover, man. man. Shout out to the knee rover, man. Yeah. You, you, you wrote half of free while you were not free. You were stuck. I was very much still trapped with the boot. I had the big boot on. It was, Oh my God. It was, but we wrote some great songs. But I loved it. You know, I was, I was, I was still cozy. Do you, do you feel like this is not one of Morgan's really brilliant planned questions.
9:10Justin Tranter:So don't blame her if this question sucks. Do you feel like being injured? Like the, the, that situation, changed the songs? Okay, so that's a good question, actually. Okay. That's a good question. Because most people, you know, when they have a... Experience a membership that backs what you're building with American Express Business Platinum. Get two times membership rewards points per dollar on eligible purchases and key business categories, as well as on each eligible purchase of$5 ,000 or more on up to$2 million in eligible purchases per calendar year. American Express Business Platinum. There's nothing like it.
9:51Justin Tranter:Terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash business dash platinum. When you're 7-Eleven's hottest fire chicken sandwich, people think you're intense. Well, yeah, I'm hot! Oh, yeah, intense. Want to see if you can handle the heat? Then try me. With pickles or spicy mayo and jalapenos. Oh, and it's all just$4.99. That's a deal almost as hot as I am. Almost? Sweet? No. Spicy? See for yourself. $4.99 and only at 7-Eleven. Valid through 825-26. Participating stores only while supplies last. Visit store for full terms. A gnarly injury like that one? They get depressed and they get down and all these things.
10:33But me, bro, like, my billing arc started. I was like, I was just sitting at home with my foot up. And I'm online. And I see people just living their lives. Going to the beach. Just simple things. Just walking. Going to the coffee shop. Yeah, just walking. Just like my blood was boiling seeing people just like walk. And I was like, fuck, man. I was like, you know what? I'm going to fucking work on this album. so by the time I'm all healed up, I'll go and tour this bad boy and I fucking, I got a whole plan. I was motivated. I was like, I'm not going to let this injury get me down. I'm going to fucking survive this and I'm going to bounce back and I'm going to be back on the road in a year.
11:21You know? So here we are, going on tour in two months.
11:25Justin Tranter:How does it feel to be putting these songs out into the world in the live setting? Man, I am, well, number one, The first thing I'm thoroughly excited about is for people to see me actually sing these songs live and like kill it. Because you fucking worked. Yeah. And I'm bringing Chloe on tour with me. Shut up. Yeah. Actually, I haven't even texted her. I've been thinking about this. So Chloe's going to find out watching this. But Chloe, you're coming on tour with me this summer. I introduce Scott to an amazing, amazing vocal coach, vocal genius. because your big goal for this album was to like sing, sing.
12:08Justin Tranter:Yeah. And whenever we start writing melodies and be like, oh, is this melody too, like, is it covering too much space? And you were like, no, fuck you, I'm going to sing it. Yeah. And so we hooked you up with Chloe. Yeah. Who's amazing, like the geekiest vocal technician ever, but like shows up like in a leather bra and like see-through pants. Just fabulous. She always be putting that shit on. The drip, the drip is crazy. And it's, you know, with Khloe, it's like, they're not like outfit changes. They're like full, like, personality changes. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like you could tell like one day she's like feeling peachy and like sunny and fun and upbeat.
12:48And the next day she'll wear something like a burgundy or something moody color. And it's like, okay, today she might be a little emo or like going to some things. but like I love her energy and she was the secret weapon because I've had to perform the songs here and there at shows and I was just kind of testing it out and her being involved like changed everything. That's so, you know what I mean?
13:12Justin Tranter:So another, that's another type of collaborator that you hadn't worked with before. Never. I've never had a vocal coach. So how does that, how did that experience feel? Like what did you learn about yourself as a writer, as an artist, like pushing yourself with a new type of collaboration? Well, I think the thing that I learned is, first off,
13:34how certain things can just get the voice to a place to be able to perform. Over and over. Right, health-wise. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's tricks and shit. And, like, I spent the whole career smoking fucking mad blunts and just fucking singing like...
13:56you know what I mean? I mean, people love it. Yeah, people love it. It's a cunty hum. But this album in particular, like the things that were demanded of me vocally were just like nothing I've ever experienced before.
14:13Justin Tranter:Right. You know what I mean? So I needed to really hone in and kind of trust the process. I had to trust you. Yeah. Because there were a lot of times where I was like, I don't know if I could sing that. And you'd be like, I think you can. Yeah. You know? And I'd be like, I don't know, man. That's pretty high. He's like, just try it. Yeah. And I would try it and I would nail it. Yeah. And you'd be like, see how I fucking told you. Yeah. You know? Well, it's always, I think for me, it's in, whether it's writing, whether it's getting someone on the mic, whatever it is, it's always like, I'm always just like, it's just music.
14:43Yeah.
14:43Justin Tranter:So let's just try it in the higher key that you feel like might be too high. Just try it. And if it's too high, we just lower the key. It's no stress. Then most of the time, you'd sing it in the original key, and we would all applaud. Yeah. And that was a beautiful thing. They would always leave. I was just going to say. We would get kicked out. They always left, right? He says they kicked them out. Well, I guess I did. I did say I wanted to clear them because I was nervous. I was nervous, right? Because this was all new things for me. but they would leave and then they would come back and we would all listen to playback and like that was always the best part for me like watching Justin like sit there on the couch and just be like woo woo like going crazy and shit and like really loving it and over time like my confidence got stronger and stronger each song my confidence got stronger and stronger Yeah.
15:37You know what I mean? Yeah. Simply because I had the support from you, everybody in the room that was working on the music. And it was just it was so beautiful. I hadn't experienced anything like that in my career, man.
15:50Justin Tranter:Yeah. Like at all. Well, I learned something from that moment, too. I joke and say that you kicked us out, but it it it actually was like because some some artists, they want you there in real time cheering them on. and you wanted time to do your thing alone with just the producer or just the engineer, whoever was cutting the vocal that day. You wanted time to like do it alone and then you wanted the feedback after. Right. And that was a big thing for me to learn of like, because most people I'm working with, they want me in there like cheerleading through the whole process. Right, right. And you were like, no, no, I've made, how many fucking albums?
16:27Justin Tranter:12. 12. Like, let me do my thing and then I want your thoughts and feedback. and that was like a great lesson for me. It was like, okay, awesome. Let him do his thing. I'll go look at my phone and talk shit in the other room and then not about you, just about the world. Talk shit about the world and then come back and work on it after that. That was like a good thing for me to learn of like, oh, it's not copy paste for every artist. You have to let people do their own process. Right, right. But also the reason why I was able to do that is because you had your reference track for me to follow. Yeah.
17:00which made it really helpful. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, you know, if I didn't have that, then maybe I would have needed you in a room to guide me. The whole way, yes. But I had something as a base to follow along to. You know what I mean?
17:15Justin Tranter:So for any geeks like us, we're geeks, that's not shade, trying to learn everything. What he means is that we would write the whole song together and deep collaboration of every single syllable, every single melody, every single rhyme. and then I would throw in a quick scratch vocal so that you had the melodies to reference while you were recording. So there'd be like a really quick demo version of me for him to make sure that like if every melody was already, that we had written together, every melody was there for him to follow so that you could do your own thing and have, which was a new process for me as well.
17:52Justin Tranter:That was new and it worked out great. Well, yeah, like to, because I'm really good at mimicking. That refresh you've been putting off until the right deal came along? It's here! Wayfair's Black Friday in July sale is happening now so you can finally get the style you've been waiting for for less. Get up to 80 % off area rugs and up to 60 % off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget, and space. Plus, free shipping! Black Friday in July ends July 27th. Shop today at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. So like hearing you go to certain places vocally, like I can mimic and like do my impression of you, you know what I mean?
18:43But it was, the beautiful thing about Free is that though it was very collaborative, we were able to still find my voice in it all. you know it still felt like cuddy a true expression of cuddy well you were writing
18:59Justin Tranter:lockstep with us the whole time but also you are so singular like the way that you sing the way that you think there's always i remember there'd be moments in songs when i we would get stuck which we both write so fast so stuck for us is like two minutes right and then we just be like but what would you do just do you i'll need to shut up for a second and let you hum the bass line and that'll get us moving. Let you just like, what would you say on this lyric? We're all going to shut up for a minute while you can do your thing. And I think that that's so, it was such an honor to work with you and moving you into more pop than you've ever been.
19:37Justin Tranter:But it's also like, I need to make sure that your fans don't fucking show up at my house and kill me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I feel you. The pressure was on. If it doesn't feel like you, your fans are going to be. They're going to call it. They're going to be pissed. Yeah. And I think that we both were aware of that to protect that through the whole process to make sure that like you were always there. But that's a testament to how great of a collaborator you are. Thank you. And I think I said this on the last thing we did because we did that interview where we broke down Mr. Miracle. But like you are a very special songwriter because you work with many people.
20:19but everyone still sounds like themselves you know you're you're you're able to almost get in my skin and and become every artist that you're working with and you can craft
20:35Justin Tranter:something that's just specifically for them well thank you you know and that is that's an art because there's some songwriters where you could tell when they yeah yeah okay they wrote that one they wrote that one, they wrote that one, they wrote that one, you know, but you could put all the songs that you've done back to back and they all sound like different from one another. And that is an art. Thank you. You know what I mean? It's an, it's an, it's an really important part of collaboration for me because I, those, some of those songs that you're, that you're talking about who you can really hear them, that is so fucking cool and special, but I feel like that their run of success is normally a lot shorter.
21:14Right.
21:15Justin Tranter:Because the second you can hear so-and-so, you go, oh, that's 2007. Okay. Oh, that's 2013. Because their sound got so massive on like seven different artists in that time that then it becomes time full, not timeless. Right, right. And so I feel like for me, it's like, one, I love to make other people shine. That's like the coolest thing that ever happened to my career of like trying to be in a band and then realizing my superpower was actually helping other people, not helping myself. Right. I mean, I get paid in the process. I am helped. But myself is helped. But it's also like intentionally like a business thing for me of like if people start hearing me on the record, that makes my window shorter.
22:03Right.
Read the full transcript
22:03Justin Tranter:And so I'm always trying to, I want the artist to shine first and foremost, but also then that means that I can last longer, hopefully. That's true. So putting this album on the road, by the way, the tour lineup sounds insane. Yeah, man. I remember you told me the week before it was announced, and I was like, oh, fuck, people are going to go crazy. Yeah, man. And the tickets are fucking selling. I was so nervous. I was so nervous about that, man. I mean, in case anyone doesn't know, tell who's on the tour. Tell the vision. We have M.I.A., Big Boy, Me and You, Dr. Genius. I mean. A-Track. It's.
22:44It's a really, it's going to be crazy. It's the best of the best. It's going to be crazy. So many different vibes. You got, you know, I'm really excited to see M.I.A. and Big Boy specifically. Because I've only seen OutKast in concert once back in the day. And I've never seen M.I.A. perform live.
23:03Justin Tranter:Oh, really? I've seen her shit online, but I've never seen her perform in person. Cool. And I'm really excited because I have this really cool concept with the stage. It really brings you into the experience. Cool. Like it brings you into the music. Cool. You know? And I don't know. But that's what I'm saying. It's been, what is it? Four years since I went on tour, right? And you never know. Yeah. You never know. When you get to this place and it's been so long since you've done something, you don't know if people still want to see you. Right. But it's a blessing that 18 years in this business, I can still put butts in seats in arenas.
23:58Yeah. You know, and it's a beautiful thing, man. I just, I'm just so excited because I know, like I have, well, first off, it's going to be pressure because I literally have three albums to tour that I have to make sure I tour. That you haven't toured. Yeah, because I did Insano, then Insano Nitro Mega, then I did Free, and I didn't tour Insano Nitro Mega and Insano and Insano Nitro Mega because I canceled the tour because I broke my foot.
24:29Justin Tranter:Right. You know what I mean? So, like, I literally have, like, three albums to cover with this tour. And then also the fucking hits. You know what I mean? But you have to give the people the hits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's going to be, I mean, we're looking at, like, an hour, 45 minutes, two-hour show. For just you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, man. So it's going to be pretty intense. But I love it because my shows are, like, one big fucking sing-along. Yeah. Like kids just built those songs out. They love singing. And sometimes I just put the mic out, just let them go after it. My mom was telling me, she was like, I love when you just put the mic out and the kids just sing it for you and finish the song.
25:11I'm like, man, that's my favorite thing to do too. You know what I'm saying? When I need to catch my breath or something, I'll be like, no, no, no.
25:20Yeah. Slow down, slow down. I'm about to faint. Slow down, I'm about to faint. And back in the hook. Hey.
25:27Justin Tranter:it's a bit you're catching your breath but then like how does that feel to hear all those people singing back it's overwhelming man it's overwhelming it never gets old are there fans that you have seen through the whole thing yes like faces that you recognize and that you know so uh there's one fan that i've been really close with since the beginning of my career um her name is moni and she's always come to my la show she is like and not only does she come to my shows but like when i rent a theater out for my fans in la she's there she shows up and like me and her are so close like i i dm'd her years ago and was like what's your number and like so now like i'll just call moni every once in a while and just be like so look moni this is what i'm working on this is like what i'm cooking like and she's like oh all right all right and she knows i have to tell nobody yeah she just keeps it quiet and maybe she'll treat something I'm like, something's coming, y 'all don't know.
26:26You know what I'm saying? Just to tease people. And I tell her she could do that. But like, I love having these personal relationships with fans here and there. And Moni is just, I remember doing shows and just always fucking seeing her in the front row. Yeah. Like always in the front row.
26:43Justin Tranter:Do you ask for her thoughts on stuff? Yeah. I'll send her music. And does she like give you honest feedback? Well, she always loves it. She always loves it. She's never like, I think you can change this snare. I was just going to say, I feel like the snare in the second verse is a little loud. Yeah. No, but she's just, I think for her, it's fucking wild, right? You're a fan of someone and then they see you come to your shows. They DM you one day, like, what's your number? And the next thing you know, you get a call immediately. Like, hey, Moni, I just want to tell you about some stuff I'm working on.
27:17Like, send you some records.
27:19Justin Tranter:What's one of the new songs that you can't wait for super fans like Moni to hear? Live. Live. Damn, there's so many good ones. Can I name a couple of them? Of course you can. Yeah, I'm just curious, like, because I haven't done the artist thing for a million years of like that feeling of like, okay, this is the record version. Yeah. But now when I take this shit live, I can't wait for the fans to feel this and feel that. Saltwater. Uh-huh. Drama. Mr. Miracle.
27:51Stargazing
27:52Justin Tranter:I thought I was in it All three were going to be my songs But of course Stargazing I didn't go right I'm sorry No But that one is like That one in particular I'm just really excited to do Because I haven't performed it yet Yeah You know And Saltwater as well Yep You know Oh so those two you have not performed at all No I've only done Mr. Miracle Live Cool And people have seen that but like not a lot of people have seen it like i've done it maybe at a festival or two yeah but um uh saltwater and and stargazing are just like you know i've just never touched those i haven't even rehearsed them yet cool so like i'm just like it's stargazing for me it's i mean not stargazing um saltwater for me i love the fact that that was the first song we created yeah And it ended up, I knew when we made it, I was like, this has to be the final song.
28:50Justin Tranter:You said it the second we wrote it. Yeah, it was just like, it was understood. Yeah. That like, that was going to be the closer. Yep. And it's such a, it's, I love the song because it's such a bookmark ending to like 18 years of doing this shit. Yep. Like, just like the final moments where I'm speaking to the fans, when I'm speaking to the audience. Yep. and I'm very honest with them and I'm just talking about how I went through this journey and I didn't know I was going to make it out, but I saw the light and I know that my dad is proud of me and all my angels like that. It's just, I don't think I've ever said that out loud.
29:32And the fact that I was able to say it on the record that millions of people would hear, I had to confess that. Like I know, of course, you know, I could assume that my dad is proud of me, but I've never articulated. I've never said it out loud. Yeah. You know? And it was so powerful. Like, I've definitely cried to Saltwater over and over before. Like, listened to it over and over and just tears.
29:57Justin Tranter:I mean, when the kids' choir comes in at the end. Oh, my God. Like, it's just. What do you think your dad is the most proud of? Hello, hello, everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say please follow and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday.
30:31Just that I'm a man that stands for something. You know? Yeah. Like, I always stand up for what's right. You know, I don't take no shit. I stand up for myself. I stand up for my friends.
30:44Justin Tranter:Yep. You know what I mean? I stand up for people dealing with shit in the world, in society that's not right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I think you would really take a step back and be like, wow. Like, you are a really solid man. Yeah. You know? And you are. I mean, as someone who knows you pretty well, it's, yeah, it's, you, you care about everybody that comes across your path and it's awesome. Yeah. Well, I find that, like, I've just been blessed to meet really, really awesome humans. Yeah. Like, like John, like yourself. Yeah. Like Chloe. And it's not lost on me that, like, you could meet shitty people and have shitty people around you.
31:38Like that was my life when I first moved to LA. I didn't have many people I knew here. So I was hanging around the shittiest people. Right. You know, and it's something I was telling my wife, you know, it takes years to find your people in Los Angeles.
31:52Justin Tranter:Right, it's so fucking spread out. Yeah, it's so spread out and it's so hard because you don't know how to navigate LA really right away. You're just going to a party here and doing this and doing that because people are inviting you here and there. But you don't really know what you like to do. You're just learning L.A. Right. You know what I mean? When you moved to L.A. as a superstar. Yeah. It was like already said and done. Right. So then it's like how do you make real friends? And I'm somebody who likes to meet real people, real humans. Right. Like I'm very rarely am I like hanging out with a shit ton of celebrities.
32:26Yeah. Like I like to meet like real, normal human beings that can look at me as a normal human being. Yep. and they're not caught up on the fame. Like, that's one of the things I tell people, like...
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33:33level. You know what I mean? So I just know that, that I'm just really lucky to have met some really awesome people spending my time in Los Angeles. And, um, I don't know, man. I just, I know that I have to keep these people close because they uplift me and make me feel good about myself and I do the same for them.
34:00Justin Tranter:Yeah. You know, like there are many times I might have like called you or text you like, man, what do you think the response is going to be for the album? Or like, like I'm in my head about it and you're like, people are going to fucking love it. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Don't even sweat it. Don't worry about it. Like, you think this is good? Like, it was multiple times when we were recording. I was like asking you like, but do you fuck with that though? Yeah. You'd be like, Cudi, yes. Well, you know what? I'll never, when, when we, I can't remember if you called me or we were in person, but you were like, hey, I just want, I think you called me.
34:29Justin Tranter:You're like, I just want to check and make sure like that, that you're not disappointed that like the numbers on this aren't crazy. And I was like, when I work with someone who has a fan base as passionate and as loyal as yours, I only care. Do your super fans think that we did a good job? Yeah. Because in today's world, when like you have no fucking clue if the algorithm is going to be on your side, The algorithm got on your side from a song that's fucking how many years old? Fucking 17, 18 years old. So we make a whole ass beautiful album about you finally being happy. About you finally finding joy and peace.
35:10Justin Tranter:And then fucking Maui Waui, a song about weed from 18 years ago. When I was 25, 24 years old. Talking about this smoking weed in Hawaii. Goes viral as fuck. Gets on the Billboard chart. 76. 76. It charts the top 100. And I'm like, but your super fans love this beautiful album we made about you finally not, to be blunt, not wanting to fucking die. Yeah. Your super fans have that. Let everybody else have Maui Waui. It just, it only brings more attention back to you and how awesome you are. Yeah. And so it's, for me, it's, it's when you called and you're like, are you upset about the numbers? I'm like, shut the fuck up.
35:52Justin Tranter:Like, we made something gorgeous. Yeah. Like, there are, sure, if you make something gorgeous and the algorithm's on your side for that too, I'm not complaining. That's great as well. But that can't be the goal. Yeah. You know what I mean? The goal has to be to help you tell whatever story you want to tell. And we did that. That's what we did. Yeah. And, you know, it's one of the things that you will be surprised at when you come to the show this year. I did the Mr. Miracle short film, right? Yep. Earlier this year. And, or that was last year, right? Yep. And in the video, I performed Mr. Miracle in front of a crowd.
36:38And I had to perform this song four or five times in a row. When I tell you, and the album maybe had been out for like three months at this point.
36:51Justin Tranter:Yeah. I don't even think. I think it was less. Yeah, I think it was less than that, right? So when I tell you every time I performed Mr. Miracle, they sang every single fucking word. Yeah. At the top of their lungs. Yeah. Screaming this song. Yeah. I was like, okay, people connect with this shit. Yeah. when I get ready to go on tour, people are going to be singing these songs as loud as they possibly can. A hundred percent. And when you come to the show, you're going to see it. Yeah. Because number one, the songs are so great to sing to. Yeah. They're great to sing along to. Right, big melodies.
37:37Justin Tranter:Yeah, you know what I'm saying? They're like great shower songs. Yeah. They're like, call me Mr. America! You know what I mean? but you're going to see like it's like the people the people that that it was meant to connect with it connected with them yeah you know what I mean yeah so it found this audience from Mr. Ranger to Mr. Miracle is pretty oh yeah pretty beautiful oh yeah yeah in because I'm lucky to know you I know that your brain is always on to whatever is next creatively yeah so obviously the tour is next in terms of what you're thinking about musically next, sonically next, what is inspiring you right now?
38:22Justin Tranter:Where's your brain going?
38:26So I've been listening to a lot of Maisie Star. Oh, legend. Right? And I just became obsessed. And so a lot of the, some of the, I pretty much made an album, right? in like two weeks. Yeah. That was super...
38:51Justin Tranter:Oh, like a new album in two weeks? Yeah. Okay, got it. That was super different. And you did a song on it. Yeah, yeah. And we won't say who it's with. But it's awesome. It'll be a surprise. But it's very exciting. Yeah, very, very dope female artist. But it's... Morgan, you're a big fan. Fucking... Oh, fuck yeah. It's fucking strong, right? And the album, for me... I needed to find something. I needed to take it all away, right? Because Insano, Insano, Not Your Mega, and Free were produced, like, through the max. Yeah. Like, the production was, like, really A1. Yeah. And I kind of wanted to strip it all away and just keep it real basic, like a Maisie Star song.
39:42Justin Tranter:Yep. and so that's i made a whole album pretty much like acoustic folky type music awesome so i don't know when it's gonna come out like i man i made a dance album finished that i made uh this this folk album i started working on um another album that i think people will really be excited about So I really started, I finished two albums and started another two. So four total. I mean, I just don't understand. If you could try to explain to me in 45 seconds, how does your brain work? Like where does it come from? Well, it's a curiosity. You know, it's like, because you know, with each of my projects, I'm always trying something new, right?
40:34so like there's a there's a hunger to to always explore yeah like like i'm an explorer in sound you know and like that excites me you know go into the studio and be like oh the possibilities are endless what could i make today like for example today i'm going to be streaming on twitch i'm streaming a whole session and aaron will be there oh cool yeah you should come if you're if you around us from three to eight o 'clock fucking awesome for you to come amazing um but like i'm just gonna be on stream producing with my buddy dot and aaron and we'll just try to make a song or two and just bring people in on the process have you done this before never what made you go fuck it i'm gonna stream a session man because i've always said like man it would have been so dope to be like a fly on the wall like doing some of my favorite songs from my childhood you know what I mean like discovering things right like bone thugs first of the month like what was that session like you know like you know like my mind is playing tricks on me like ghetto boys like what was that session like I wish I could have been in that room you know yeah so I was like man maybe I could grant that reality for other people like bring them into the session like a lot of kids want to see how I cook.
41:57They've never, through my whole career, there's no real evidence of me making these songs. Right. Like, nobody is like, does he even make these songs? Like, no one even knows, you know? Yeah, we've been talking about I've written 12 albums, but nobody's seen me do it. Right. You know? So it's like,
42:12Justin Tranter:Did you like announce to your fans that this is happening? Yeah, I announced it. And, That is? They're going to be fucking ready. Awesome. Yeah, yeah. And I already got like 933 followers. You know what I mean? So I'm like, let's keep it going. Let's keep it going, you know? It really is such, like, a cool way to show people, like, you can still play. Like, I mean, it's great for the kids, the teens, to show them that, like, it doesn't have to be taken so seriously. You should be curious and you should have fun. And also knowing that you're going into a session with Eric Kanata, shout out. He's so fucking silly.
42:43Like, I know that's what that's going to be like. Well, I'm just looking forward to the chat going crazy over his mustache. I was looking for everybody just sending a little emoji. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, my God. And he's got great style. And, like, he's just a really amazing human being. And I met through Justin. And we have great chemistry in the studio. He's able to, you know, like, a lot of the ways I created this new stuff, and even some of the stuff on Free, was I would hum a melody and he would play the guitar to the melody. Yep. And that's how a lot of the folk songs were written. It was, I had Aaron and I had another dude on guitar named Heavy Mello, who's an amazing producer.
43:34So talented. And so I did a bunch of records with him and I did a bunch of records with Aaron and I just kind of want to keep building. And a lot of it is, you know, because that's the thing that people don't know about me is like on the low, like I'm a really like seasoned producer. Right. You know what I mean? And that's another reason why I'm doing this stream because I want to like show people like, yo, this is like -
44:02Justin Tranter:This is what's happening. This is how I cook. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'd really be in there like, ooh, do this, do that, change this, change that. And then I also let other people lead. Like I would let like a lot of the songs that I did with Aaron or Heavy Mellow, like we'll start off with my melody, right? But then I'll be like, so go somewhere else on the hook. Just come up with something. Yep. You know what I mean? And they'll come up with a riff. Because I'm like thinking like, you know, because in my head, I'll just come up with a melody and have the whole song be that melody. But I'm like, no, it has to be dynamic.
44:33There has to be these different moments, right?
44:35Justin Tranter:Well, there's no point in collaborating if you're not going to let somebody else see what they're bringing. Exactly. What is your, as someone who is so deeply, deeply respected in what you create, what does a collaborator have to bring to the table for you to want to work with them? For you to want to bring them back? An open mind. An open mind. Yep. That's number one for you. Yep. I love that. They can't be like, ah, we can't do that. That sounds too much like this. Or, oh, we can't do that. And they have to explore and be a fucking explorer. Dora the Explorer. You know what I'm saying? Like straight up.
45:15You gotta be so, like you have to have a childlike wonder in the studio with me. I love that. Because you don't know what we're gonna cook.
45:22Justin Tranter:Yeah. You know what I mean? And what do you think that you bring as a collaborator? What is like your, so you need someone who has that childlike wonder who's gonna be Dora the Explorer. What is it that you know that you're gonna bring to each situation? Fearlessness. Love. You know? I was actually talking with Diplo the other day, and he was like, yo, man, you've really built a career, just do it whenever the fuck you want. And I was like, you're right, you know? Like, you're right, man. I just, I can't do it any other way, you know? How does that make you feel? It feels good, especially somebody like Diplo, who I thought didn't notice all the shit I've been doing the past 18 years.
46:07And he's like, no, I've been watching you, you know? because I fuck with Diplo, but we haven't really spoken and we haven't collaborated in my career ever really. We were supposed to do something from my first album and he sent me some beats, but we couldn't figure it out. But yeah, we just never collaborated. And it's like to hear someone like Diplo give me my flowers and just say like, yo, the dope thing about you is that you do whatever the fuck you want and you're successful. You know what I mean? and because it's like in this business like it's rare for an artist to be like i'm just whatever fucking mood i'm in this is what i'm doing and be and find success it is really
46:46Justin Tranter:amazing to watch yeah of just you be like oh this is i'm i'm doing a folk album now yeah because so many so much of my world right it's just like which i love i'm here to like serve other people's vision so i never get to go i'm making a folk album today because i need so i need an artist to want that you know what i mean like it must be i can't imagine how that feels that you just get to wake up and go i'm doing this today fuck it oh it's freeing it's freeing man like this this is no there's no barriers there's no boundaries yeah you know i'm coloring outside the lines you know yeah and like i think that at the end of the day that's what people will remember me for yeah you know i think people will look at my discography when i'm like 70 80 years old and it'll be like fuck this dude took us on a musical fucking journey like he came in the game and said watch this and it's been fucking serving for fucking 50 years do you ever think you won't be making like three albums at once do you ever think there'll be a time where you're like cause you're also while you're making three albums at once you're also like writing whole ass TV shows and movies and acting is that do you prefer that level of constant creation is that just how you function better or why do you think that that's how it goes down i think i function better at at a very like
48:20i don't know i think i i just this is what i tell people yeah i'm a machine man i'm a freak of nature yeah like my wife tells me this all the time. She's like, you're the only man I know that'll get off an 11-hour flight from Paris and then go to the studio as soon as you live.
48:38Justin Tranter:I mean, that is demented. Just because you don't have an album you're working on. You're just feeling creative. You know what I mean? That plane ride. That Julia Roberts movie on the plane really got you inspired. You have to go right to the studio. Like something inspired me, you know, and I'm just a machine, I always am thinking about making something. Yeah. Whether it's a movie, whether it's a song, you know, whether it's something I'm designing, some clothes, like I'm always, like my brain is always going on overdrive. I'm a creative to the T. Yeah. Like my creativity, like I really feel that my mind is unmatched.
49:22Like I just, it operates in a certain type of way just because I'm living my dreams, bro. I came from nothing. Like, I was talking to somebody about this the other day. I was like, man, because I did this other interview, and they were like, you know, after all these years acting, you know, like, what keeps you in it? Like, what still inspires you? And I was like, it's the fact that I'm doing it. Right. You know what I mean? Like, do you understand? Like this was the dream that I thought could never happen. Like music seemed realistic. We had Bone Thugs coming out of Cleveland.
49:59Justin Tranter:Yep. You know what I mean? The Isley Brothers. You know what I mean? We had shit, right? Music legends from where you're from. Right. So it seemed realistic. Acting, like maybe you had a few people. Right. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't like a real big thing. We had Halle Berry. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, but like the fact that I'm doing this, and I've been able to do it consistently for 17 years. Yeah. Like, I don't give a fuck if I got to get in a lake that's cold as shit.
50:32This movie I did last summer, I had to get in the lake butt naked. Butt ass naked. Don't ask me why. This is what the scene called for, right? Naked in a lake. It was freezing in this lake. Yeah. Right? So I had to let people know, like, the water's cold, guys, just in case. Don't judge me. Don't judge me. The water's freezing out here. Yeah. Please touch the water so you know I'm not lying.
50:58Justin Tranter:If you could come. Everyone, everyone touch the water. Come touch the water. Come touch the water. But, like, it's those moments that some actors probably get a little pissy and they're like, fuck, you know, I got to fucking do this. but like I am gung-ho about anything because I am living my dreams. I get a chance to wake up, even if it's 5 a.m. in the morning and I got to be on set. Yep. And I wrap the night before at like eight o 'clock. Yeah. Like I don't give a fuck. I am living a dream here. Like this is awesome. Do you know how many people wish they could make movies? Yep. You know what I'm saying?
51:33Yeah. Like, and it's hard to get in the fucking movie. Right. You know? And the fact that people are still interested in hiring me is a blessing. So like, I don't know, man. It's all these different things, all these different outlets I have in my life. They fulfill me. They give me something different, whether it's painting, because I'm painting them.
51:54Justin Tranter:Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? They all give me something in particular that bring me something that I can't explain. It's like a joy that I only get through creating art. Yeah. You know? And it's, I don't know if I'll ever or when I'll slow down. Yeah. I feel like music is always going to be a part of my life. Yep.
52:22Like, for example, like I'm getting ready to direct my first film in a couple weeks, right? Awesome. And I'm -
52:30Justin Tranter:Well, you're making a whole last movie before you go on tour? yeah so casual so casual just a quick director and and i'm i'm directing it i wrote it i'm starring in it and i'm scoring it and i'm also going to help with editing you know i mean and like are you okay yeah it's like it's like blink twice if you need no no i don't think you're doing it up actually work harder my god pick it up but like i i just you know i actually talked about this in my memoir right i always had this phobia i always had this fear that i would be a loser in school i didn't apply myself i got bad grades i tried to play every sport there was and i could never make the team.
53:22Like, I just, as a kid, I just thought that I was going to be a loser. And, like, when I went out to pursue music, the one thing in the back of my mind was, like, I am not going to be a loser. So I still, even though, like, I've accomplished all these great things and there's no way, even if I stopped now, I wouldn't be a loser.
53:46Justin Tranter:Right. I still have this thing in my head where I'm, like, no, like, Like I have to keep pushing myself to be like the illest version I can ever be. Like the Super Saiyan, Dragon Ball Z, gold hair, flying in the sky version of Kid Cudi. You know what I mean? Like that's where I need to find that. And I won't stop till I achieve it. Wow. You know? And like it doesn't have anything to do with sales, right? it doesn't have anything to do with any of that. It's like the act of doing it. Wow. You know what I mean? That like, I know I called you and I said, hey, I hope you're not disappointed with the sales.
54:38But I wasn't disappointed with the sales. Yeah. I was like, yo, I don't know what the fuck is happening with the algorithm, but this shit is fire. and motherfuckers is going to catch on. This album will be around for the rest of the time, even when I'm gone. Yep. And people are going to find it. And first off, when I tour this album, people are going to discover it again, all over again. Yep. You know what I mean? And that's going to get the streams up. People will find this album, same way they found Speeding Blood to Heaven. When that album came out, the sales were very low. It was my lowest album at that time, you know?
55:13But, like, to this day, People talk about that album every fucking day. They remind me that that album changed their lives. Yeah. You know? And like, it really is the perfect example of, like one of the perfect examples of hearing somebody tormented on wax. Like I was suicidal when I made that album. It is evidence. You know? I can't even listen to a majority of those songs because it's triggering. Right. That's how real that shit was. Wow. You know? So, like, I don't ever think about sales. I know that when I turn that album in, when I turn in that final mix, I have given it to God, and I am thoroughly happy.
55:59Yeah. And, like, whatever happens. Good luck to everybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did my job. Yeah, exactly. And I'm happy with it. Yeah. And I know the shit is ill, and I don't need nobody else. I don't give a fuck anybody's opinion. I don't give a fuck. You can write your reviews, Pitchfork. You can write your reviews. Guess what? guess what you're gonna write a review motherfucker yep you gotta write a review you're gonna give me a bad score but guess what you gotta write about cudi yeah you gotta write about cudi yes motherfucker yes you know i'm saying yes you know so like that is such a great way to think about it yeah that
56:33Justin Tranter:that's how important the music is you gotta write about it that was just like uh uh that unlocked something in my brain yeah i was like because pitchfork just because you brought them up not trying to throw more strays at them but fuck them but they if they're talking about it it means it's a moment it's a moment it means that like they had to talk about it yeah and that is there's um a new artist i'm working with that i won't say her name because i don't know if she want me to spill this tea but she had the same experience and she was like oh like and it was really funny because she has a song about her hometown, which is like a cool, really cool part of a big city.
57:17Justin Tranter:And the review was like, oh, it's like, I feel like she's not even from there. And it's like literally where she grew up. Like not, like she didn't move there when she was 18, like where she grew up. And she was like, I just like, and I was like, but at least they're questioning your existence. At least they, that you are doing enough that they have to acknowledge that you exist. And like you saying, you're gonna fucking talk about it. You might give me a low score, but you're gonna fucking talk about it. That is... Like somebody has to write and it's work to write a story about it. You know what I'm saying?
57:48And especially you write something that they don't like. Yeah. Like I love that. Like yeah, asshole, you gotta write something you don't like. Listen to it again. Yeah, yeah. Listen to this thing you hate again. You know what I'm saying? Your boss is like, you gotta write the Kid Cudi review. You're like, fuck. It's gonna take me two days. I'm like, yeah, motherfucker. Two days to write something you don't like. I love it. I go to sleep at night loving that shit. Like, yeah, motherfucker. Guess what? You're going to write about me. You're going to write about me. Oh, that is, that's the only way to think about it.
58:20Justin Tranter:You just changed the way I look at the internet for the rest of the time. Yeah, man, yeah. That is amazing. Okay, so to wrap up every episode, we play a little game called gag or drag. Okay. Gag is if you love it. I've seen this. I've seen, yeah, yeah. Gags if you love it, drags if you hate it. Okay. And if you are, if you don't care, you can add meh. Like, I don't care either way. Okay, so gag or drag, artists testing their unfinished songs on tour. So gag would be good. You love testing, drag, hate testing. Gag. Gag, love it. Gag or drag, fans screaming the lyrics louder than you. You actually already answered this.
58:57Justin Tranter:Gag. Gag. I love that. Yeah. Anytime I can get a break. Anytime I can get a break. I told you, set us an hour and 45 minutes. You're going to need some breaks. It's about your break. First verse, you guys got it.
59:13Justin Tranter:Gag or drag, playing your hits for the hundredth time. They're hits, man. It's a blessing to get a hit. It's a blessing. Gag, gag. Yeah. Gag or drag, crowds filming the whole show on their phone. Drag. Drag. Yeah. I understand a couple things. If I'm playing your song in that moment and you want to record it, I get that. but like sitting up there the whole time like this is good right oh he's doing this oh yeah like that i don't fuck with man i i need you to be present i've stopped doing it because as a fan when i go to shows and i'm filming and then like you know i'm a pretty good singer but when you're in the audience you're not like using your real singing voice you're just like and then i try to watch the videos back i'm like why did i even take this video.
1:00:03Justin Tranter:I'm just, I sound insane. Oh my God. On the whole video. Um, gag or drag tour buses. Gag. Yeah. You'd like the bus. Can you sleep on a bus? Yes, I can. Wow. I can sleep on a bus. I can sleep on a plane. Cause it's like the plane I can sleep on a bus. And maybe cause I don't know how to drive. So I'm always convinced that whoever's driving is going to die. It's going to kill us all. But maybe if I understood the art of driving, I wouldn't be so terrified. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe for sure, for sure. I think I just learned something about myself. Okay, great. Gag or drag, the emotional song that somehow becomes the mosh pit song.
1:00:43That happened to me a couple times.
1:00:45Justin Tranter:Morgan does her research for these questions. I'm sure she knew. I'm sure she had proof of this. Yeah, yeah. Gag. That happened to me with Pursuit of Happiness. Yeah. You know, because I wrote Pursuit of Happiness. it was meant to be kind of a warning of uh about recklessness in youth and and and um when it when the remix happened it flipped the whole shit yeah like it became like oh this is a song we get fucked up to like he's talking he's talking about drinking and driving yeah this is song you drink and drive to you know and i was like you know i was like no no no that's not what this point of the song was guys it was meant to show you like this is this is recklessness yeah you know um but over time i learned to embrace because i i saw that the remix was bringing people joy when i would perform it at my shows that was always a moment yeah i mean that that song i'll always have to have in my set yeah like i'll always have to pursue always always such a good song yeah people people look forward to coming to my show and having that last moment at the end of the shows where the fucking confetti comes down the fucking balloons yeah and everybody singing pursuit of happiness yeah and just raging and having a good time yeah and we're all fucking happy yeah you know i mean and that's what when i finally saw that as i was performing the song I was like okay this is a good thing this is what it's become this remix took it and brought a whole new life to it but like it is bringing people joy and that is like a blessing once you turn it in whether it's the remix it's up to the it has a life of its own gag or drag when the crowd knows the deep cuts better than the hits gag gag I was doing my podcast and that's a question I ask everybody is like, you know, what's one of their favorite Cuddy songs, you know?
1:02:58And all the people that I've done episodes with, they always mention the deep cut. Cool. And it makes me so happy. Nobody's like, day and night. But day and night is a banger. It is amazing. And I wouldn't, I don't know if I would judge.
1:03:11Justin Tranter:As someone who lived in Brooklyn when that song came out, that song was Brooklyn for a good 18 months. It was the hipster anthem. But that crossed over to mainstream as fuck. And like being a hipster in Brooklyn when this hipster anthem came out and seeing that it could go to - International. Everywhere. Yeah, yeah. That was like, oh shit. So like we can be like assholes in Brooklyn and still get hits. Yeah. Exactly. But it also means so much when someone brings up a deep cut. Of course it does. Because that means not only are they a fan, but they listen to that whole fucking album. Yep. You know what I mean?
1:03:54And not only were they listening to the album, but this song in particular they played over and over. Yep. This was their shit.
1:04:01Justin Tranter:Yeah. No, even as a songwriter, I have that. When like if someone, whether it's in an interview or at a gay bar, whatever, when they're like, oh my God, I just wanted to say I love so much a song that is not a single. As a songwriter, if they know that I wrote something, if they paid enough attention to look at the credits of something that wasn't a hit, that's... That's dope. Specifically at Gay Bars, I get Kelly Clarkson's Nostalgic, a song I wrote, which means so much to me because it was my first cut I ever got as a songwriter. And so when that happens, it is. The deep cuts, it feels like, oh, these people care.
1:04:37Yeah, exactly. They actually care. This is a true legit fan. Yeah, that's special.
1:04:43Justin Tranter:Gag or drag, labels asking for one more hit? Drag. That happened to me many a times. I remember when I did Day and Night, the label was like, all right, we need another one, we need another one. And I was like, the next single is going to be Pursuit of Happiness. And they were like, no, we need something else. And I was like,
1:05:04let me tell y 'all something. this needs to be the next single this needs to be the next single sylvia ron was in the room a couple other people in the studio at the at the label i said you don't under fucking stand this song is going to change everything this needs to be the next single they were giving me shit and i literally had a temper tantrum i stomped on i was like no no foot stomping you're not listening like it's almost like i took a time machine went to like 2026 and then came back to 2009 it was like the things i've seen you don't know trust me you know um but sylvia rome was like you know what he believes in this this is what he wants is give him what he wants.
1:05:57Justin Tranter:Yeah. And I was fucking right, man. Yeah. Like, I knew. You know, sometimes you just know. Yeah. So, let me put my shades back on. Okay. Gag or drag? Songs getting shorter intentionally to boost streams? Drag. Yeah. Because I'll still bust out my 330, 4-minute joint. I mean, Saltwater's what? Almost six? Yeah. Yeah, man. I don't, like, I like to have a balance. It's like I have some songs that are a little bit shorter, but, you know, I love doing a verse, hook, verse, hook, bridge, outro. You know what I mean? I love, like, really making it cinematic and making it a story and having something that people can listen and put on repeat and feel like, ah, yes, I got a five-minute song that I can listen to on repeat over and over, rather than a two-minute and 30-second song that's going to be over in a second.
1:06:48And I have to hear it over and over again, but it repeats itself so fast. And, like, you know what I mean? Yep. It's like, I just love it. I love having the balance. Yeah.
1:06:57Justin Tranter:Last question, not a gagger drag, just a last question for anyone inspired by how creative you are. What is one thing that you have learned about creativity that is always true? That anyone who's trying to write songs, direct movies, what is one thing that you have learned about the creative process that is always true and always helps you? You have to be willing to put in the work. A lot of people I find are not willing to work at something. Like you have to put in your 10 ,000 hours. Yep. You know? Yep. And that 10 ,000 doesn't stop? No, it doesn't. It keeps going. 10 ,000 for each era. Yeah, exactly.
1:07:42Yeah. And the work ethic is half the battle.
1:07:47Justin Tranter:Yep. you know and and i know we laughed about this while we were talking but like my work ethic is like crazy yeah you know i i and you too yeah you know um jean baptiste his work ethic is crazy like every time i hit him he's like yo i'm in a session oh yo i'm going to a meeting oh yo i'm doing this like like and i surround myself with people that are like-minded like me yeah you know i mean that that cook and so work ethic i feel like it's the thing man um i love that you just have to have to be down to put in the hours and let your curiosity lead you. What I love so much about that being like your last bit of advice for anyone trying to create or collaborate is that you are known as such a high level creative thinker, but for you, for the one thing that you know is always true is work ethic.
1:08:41Justin Tranter:I think that that to me is so inspiring. I think that, you know, if someone came in here and said that, who like is a executive or, or like a, on the business side of things, work ethic better be their fucking thing. Yeah. But to hear it coming from you, someone who is so respected as a thinker, that work ethic is still the one thing, you know, to be true. That is to me, true inspiration. That's awesome. Well, that's half the battle. Yep. You know what I mean? And that's, And I think that's the one thing that separates me, artist, from the, ah, the fucking illest. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right, because you can have a brilliant idea, but if you don't put in the work to get it across the finish line, who fucking cares?
1:09:20Exactly.
1:09:20Justin Tranter:Yeah. I love it. And with any art, with any art form, you got to massage it. You got to keep working the muscle. It's all muscle memory. you know i mean and once you learn it all you're gonna do is you're only gonna be this bad at it once you know i mean when you start right yeah it's the one time and then from there you're just gonna keep getting better yeah you know i mean and you're just gonna keep growing and keep growing five months then a year then five years then 10 years and next thing you know you're gonna be out here just like oh this is second nature and you're gonna be curious about learning something else new.
1:09:59Justin Tranter:Yep. You know? Yeah. It's a cycle. Yeah. You know? Amazing. Yeah. I love it. Ladies, gentlemen, everyone in between, Kid Cudi! Again and again and again and again I am still sexy.
From the publisher
Kid Cudi and Justin Tranter make emotionally expansive, genre-shifting work. But more importantly, they know how to stay open long enough to actually find something new.
In this episode of Unfamous, Justin sits down with Cudi to talk about their collaboration on Free and what it meant for him to move from writing alone into a shared process. They get into trust, pushing past limits, and letting other voices in without losing your own. It’s about creative risk, curiosity, and how to collaborate without losing your identity.
If you love music, creativity, and the real process behind how things get made, this one’s for you. Follow, subscribe, like and comment wherever you watch and listen.
Credits:
Unfamous is hosted by Justin Tranter
Created by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Produced by Justin Tranter & Morgan T. Stuart
Written & Researched by Morgan T. Stuart
Director: Morgan T. Stuart
Co-Director + Cinematographer: Olivia McCrary
Audio Engineer: Mike Sabri
Camera Assistant: Kolbi Samantha
Special thanks to Mark Beavan, Jimmy Knehans, Kasey Sobey and Sydnee Nanas. Shout out to Chloe Pappas and Leslie on Patreon.
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