Nick Jonas | The Rejections Behind His Biggest Breakthroughs

23:09Justin Tranter:How do you, with that rejection in the back of your head, and you go in the room and write Jealous, had you been sort of over that hump because of the excitement of Chains and David Massey's belief? Do you think that that's why you got to, or just sometimes the song just happens? I think sometimes the song just happens. Yeah. We were working on a different song, as is the story with so many songs that we've written, I feel like, and different moments. You know, like we started on one thing that was pretty good, stepped outside had a conversation just about life and then we're like maybe that's where we should go and um went back in the room and and started writing it and i thought it was like i thought it was good but then i went and played it for phil our longtime manager and he like jumped up and was like you did it you did it i was like what are you talking about and he doesn't get excited about anything really.

24:07And again, it was someone else instilling that confidence. I was like, maybe, maybe, yeah, I don't, it's, but I'm also, I'm a bad like first listen. Like I'm just terrible. And, and I'm going to tell you a story that you've probably never heard, but it's, it's like, I love being wrong. It's the headline of the story. And not that I didn't think it was going to be successful or a hit, But I was like, but this was 2015, maybe 2014. I'm in New York and Joe's like, yeah, I just got back from Europe. I was writing with Justin Tranter. And he's like, I got this song I think is really strong. I was like, let's hear it.

24:48And he played me Cake by the Ocean. And I was like, that's really good. He's like, what do you mean really good? I was like, it's a great start. Like, I think you guys are onto something. Obviously when the song like sits at number one and, you know, is the biggest hit of the year. He looked at me and he's like, it's a good start, huh? You just never know. Like, it takes so many magical elements coming together, stars lining for a thing to become as big as Cake by the Ocean.

25:16Justin Tranter:Well, and that one is an interesting one because, one, for me it was really early in my success. I'd only had one hit when I wrote that. And in the room I had the magic. It was like, what is going on? Something crazy is happening. but then it's a song called Cake by the Ocean. Yes. So I think a lot of people were like, when I found out it was gonna be the first single, I was like, well, I know this is special, but I never thought a major label would go, oh, a song called Cake by the Ocean. Yeah. Where the first line is, oh no, why are you walking around like it's a funeral? I was like, I don't know how anyone is gonna say, let's make this the first single, but thank God they did.

25:55It's so funny because, yeah, I recall Joe playing it for me and thinking kind of the same thing. Like, it's a really interesting title, but like, what does it mean? And it's just like, on a second listen, I was like, oh, damn, this is a smash. Like, you just, it always takes my ear a second. And then times when I think a song is going to be a hit, this is what drives me nuts as a writer. It's like, you come out of the room feeling like, oh, we got one today. And it just doesn't do anything.

26:24Justin Tranter:Well, and now we live in the upside down where if the bridge of something goes viral and now there's a song that's a hit that no one with that you could have been in the music business for 50 years with the best track record of all time and no one can call a hit anymore. Yeah, that's over. Has that changed your process? there's seconds where it could but i force myself to focus on the positive and go well now there's just a full freedom so let's just do exactly what we want because like what i used to be able to call a hit because one there's a magical feeling that is just the x factor of it but i used to really be able to sense that, especially while you're writing it, you just feel it.

27:14Justin Tranter:And then there's structural things that it's hitting. And then there's where's an artist at in their career and blah, blah, blah. Now the biggest artist in the world can put out an entire album and no one knows it came out. Yeah. Like, so it, it, it, it has changed my process in the sense of I focus on the positive and just go, let's do it. Or I, I'm spending so much time with artists who have 200 ,000 monthly listeners because it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. If that, there's this new girl, Anina, I'm working with. Just a couple of days. We're early in it, but it's A-N-N-I-I-N-A, Finnish artist.

27:52Justin Tranter:I think she has 20 ,000 monthlies. And I don't care because her chance of going viral is just as high as your chance of going viral. Yeah. We are in the fucking upside down. So it's like, whether it's Rose Gray, who I just executive produced her new album, first single dropped, clubbed your arms, check it out. Embarrassing plug. Nick Jonas hasn't heard it yet, but he's going to love it. I'm going to love it. It's like who, so I've focused on the positive of how it's changed my process and go, fuck it. Let me just do exactly what I love because when I first got my first hit 2014 for the six years until TikTok took over in 2020, I could like, I could call every hit.

28:39Justin Tranter:And that's over. So let's just fucking party. Yeah. At this point in your career, but more than your career, as a creative person who has executive produced awesome things, movies, and acted, and written hit songs, and been a part of this massive band that has turned into this touring juggernaut. What inspires you at this point to keep going? What do you need a song or a project to have for you to want to actually engage? Well, I think there's something about people gathering together, you know, in a place, whether that's a concert venue or a movie theater, even at home watching something with their family and friends.

29:32If I can do things that create that environment for people, where there's joy and a community experience, I think I've done my job. For instance, you know, a song that we co-wrote was the opener of our last tour for many of the shows, Love Me to Heaven, which... Love that song so deeply. Love that song. And, you know, in that environment with whatever it is, 20, 30, 40 ,000 people singing that and feeling that energy and, and the, the vibrance of that song, you know, in the store, the, for me, for me in the background, like the, you know, where, what it was and, and then what it became, there was a different lyric.

30:18And then we got together and kind of like made it about this feeling of being uplifted by the people, the person you love. Yeah. And it speaks to me and the brothers relationship, it speaks to me and Pri, and and then inherently the audience I feel really latched on to those themes and it became like the theme for the night yeah which then led us to the special guests and like this feeling of community and you know that's when I've done that right and then on the film and tv side you know look at something like like power ballad for instance which um is a movie that's it's a little like a you know, jewel box.

30:57Like it's a beautiful little story that's contained to this thing. It's so good.

31:02Justin Tranter:Hello, my little unfamous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, Little Miss algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it. So if you follow this podcast, what do the old school YouTubers say? Like, subscribe and follow. if you do that for me then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people so please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things bye thank you that asks so good some important questions about you know identity and meaning and self worth and all this stuff and getting to release that in theaters because it's it's a smaller movie that could have very well just been on a streamer, but getting to do that, put it out in theaters and see people come together to experience that was really special to me.

32:02And I know Paul Rudd as well. And then the last example would be like the Christmas movie, which could have been a disaster. It was awesome.

32:12Justin Tranter:We slayed. And it was so fun. Wait, but explain that. Back it up for one second. What in your mind goes, this could be a disaster? Because there's a fine line between... tongue in cheek and just bad. It's a very fine line. And there's also, you know, it's very self-aware. Like there's a lot of things about it that... It's shockingly, when I read the first draft of the script, I was like, have the brothers read this? Basically just making fun of themselves and each other for 85 minutes. But I think the writers did an excellent job of getting the tone right and the balance of the humor and the heart.

32:57And then, you know, the key ingredient, which me and the brothers, and I'm not just gassing you up, but like the key ingredient was the music has to be really great. We got to see if Justin will do it. And it was, you were the first and only name that came to mind because you get that balance of we're telling a story. We need the comedy. Right. But it also has to have this heart and feel like songs that could be played on the radio. And so all the stars aligned on that one. And what I loved most just to land this plane, because it's a long-winded answer, is that I heard from so many people that they got together with their families over the holidays, watched the movie, and then either had like a healing experience with each other or just had a nice time with the people they love.

33:41Justin Tranter:Yeah. And that joy, again, was right at the center of it. And it's not to say that every project has to just be happy. Right. You know, I've written a lot of songs that are about some real stuff. Yeah. And there are films that are going to be heavy, but getting to bring people together is, I think, the key. Well, I think that is also like the, when you called me about the Christmas movie, what I thought was so smart and self-aware, not in terms of the comedy of the script, that was a whole other version of self-aware, but the self-awareness of Disney is what started this for us. it would be so egotistical to think that we're above going back.

34:24Justin Tranter:And I was like, that is so smart and also kind of like oddly beautiful. Of like, as now fully grown adults who have done all these different things, let's go make a Disney Christmas movie and go back to where it started. Yeah, I think the relationship, the long-standing relationship with Disney is something that I'm really grateful for because, you know, I think all of us have these things that in our youth we're really proud of and we wear as a badge of honor to be a fan of something, to be interested in something. And then it's natural that, you know, as you're discovering yourself in your early adulthood, your early 20s, you sort of reject that and think it's not cool or whatever.

35:14What I've experienced, and I think a lot of people can probably relate to this, is that you get to 30 and you're kind of like, I am who I am and I don't care. And I love the things I love and that I loved as well. And it's not just because it's nostalgic. It's because it's comfortable. It's because you've had a lived experience with that thing. And I would describe, you know, our relationship, my relationship with Disney as kind of that.

35:41Justin Tranter:Yeah. Something that I was very proud to affiliate with in my teens. In my 20s, it's not that I resented it or didn't want to do it. It's just I had to go on my journey to figure out what it looked like to be an adult. Yeah. I think when I got married, when I had our daughter, you know, I'm now thinking about what can I bring into this world that she'll enjoy and that when she's growing up, she'll like. And in addition to the things I'm making for a more adult audience. Right. But it's really fun to kind of be a creative person with that lens now because it really shifts everything. Yeah. But also, too, in the Christmas movie specifically, and then we can stop talking about our fabulous Christmas movie.

36:26Justin Tranter:I couldn't believe that I knew that you'd be into some of the cooler, weirder things we were referencing in the music. Like there's the ballad where you guys almost get eaten by wolves. Yeah. it's like very like like a super like indie mcgee guitar thing and i was like it's a really cool song our let's just do it i know that nick and joe are gonna like it and let's see if disney will like get on board with like a song that's very clear like an indie pop song in the middle of a christmas movie when they're about to be eaten by wolves and everyone just said yeah that's great And I was like, oh, okay.

37:09They really did give us so much creative freedom. It was awesome. Which was, you know, I think the reason it worked is not because they let us do it, but because it was a real collaboration. We understood the assignment from them, what the goals were, and they trusted in the collective to come up with something that felt authentic to us. Yeah. My favorite song, of course, from the soundtrack is the Home Alone song.

37:39Justin Tranter:I mean, I think it's incredible. I think it's mine too. For everyone in the room who's not watched the Jonas Christos movie, you're in trouble, first of all. Secondly, there's a scene where Nick, playing obviously himself, was in a fictional Home Alone musical in his 20s playing the 50-year-old dad. Yeah. And so we wrote a song for a fake Home Alone musical that I think we need to write a Home Alone musical now. I think you should. But this time play Kevin. Yeah. I'll play Kevin. You play Kevin. And you had a cameo in the movie. I did. Yeah, I played piano in that song. Yeah, it was great. In a rhinestone suit.

38:25Justin Tranter:It was fantastic. It was absolutely fabulous. You mentioned Power Ballad. when you're approached with movie projects, which you do many of them, and someone says, we kind of want you to play a character that in some ways is close to you just because the character was in a band when they were younger and now they're going solo and blah, blah, blah. How do you, when you get that script of something that is similar touchstones to your own life, but is not you, how do you, what's your first thought? What's that? that thing from, is this play about us? Yeah, from Euphoria. That's kind of how it feels.

39:06You're like reading it and, you know, elements of the character definitely felt, you know, true to my lived experience. But I think what I resonated with most about the script when I first read it was this question of ownership. There have been a lot of times where knowingly, and unknowingly, I have landed on another melody or a chord structure that was similar. As I think every songwriter has. And when I say knowingly, obviously. This is the reference. We're being inspired by this. And we're going to interpolate it and reach out to the writers and make a deal, all that stuff. Do it the right way.

39:47Because in the movie, what happens is my character, Danny Wilson, has this great experience with Paul Rudd's character where they're, you know, hanging out, drinking, smoking, vibing on music, sharing ideas. One of the ideas that's shared by Paul Rudd then becomes this global smash six months later that my character is released and taken full credit for. The way in which it works in the movie, because John Carney is such a great filmmaker, is not that it is some devious plan. Right. It's, it's, and we talked about this a lot, this, how it could actually happen. Yeah. You're hanging out, an idea gets shared, you sit down at the piano and you're And I've been here a million times, vibing, trying to think of melodies you've been singing throughout the week in the shower, in the car.

40:32And then you land on something and you go, oh, I must have thought of this previously. Right. The idea that it wasn't a devious plan and some intentional thing, but a situation that could happen. And then how my characters met with that moral dilemma is the really interesting, juicy part of it.

40:50Justin Tranter:Yeah. So I encourage people to go watch this movie because it's a fun, very funny ride. Paul Rudd's amazing. But it's a really, especially if you're creative, it's a really interesting thing. And I think there's, the takeaway for me is that, that obviously everyone should get the credit they deserve for any composition that they've made. and also it's very possible to accidentally land on a melody. Well, there's also, when it comes to any sort of art form, there's a million, I'm like a huge dystopian post-apocalyptic geek. That's all I read. It's all I watch. It's all I care about. I just pray for the world to end.

41:36Justin Tranter:So I read about it.

41:41Justin Tranter:So now, because the world is such a stressful, whenever the world is stressed out as a whole, so many more dystopian and post-apocalyptic things get greenlit in Hollywood. In fiction, it's kind of always happening. As like a geek, I can tell you, there's at least like 20 amazing dystopian books a year. But Hollywood greenlights these things, whether it's conscious or subconscious. When the world is stressed, they're like, we need the last of us. We need all these things about the world. Disclosure day. Disclosure day. Everything about us, everything ending. And it's like, well, who's to say there's been a million movies about aliens landing on Earth.

42:24Justin Tranter:So are we all, is the next person who writes another movie about aliens landing or about a pandemic wiping out 98 % of people, is that theft? And the answer is no. It's just that there's certain things, there's certain tropes in movies and TV that we're very used to, but for some reason when it comes to music, the conversations get real tricky. Yeah. Real tricky. It's a great point. And there's only so many notes to pull from. Yeah. Actually, it happened recently on my song, Gut Punch. Great, great song. Thank you. what happens is that you, you basically present your album to the, the universal music team and, and they have a team of people, musicologists that listen to every song and make sure that it's not unintentionally or whatever, interpolating or sound like another song.

43:20And it passed. And then I was like, just give it one more go just to make sure. And it, it, gut punch was flagged that it sounded similar to the song impossible.

43:34and so we obviously reached out to the writers included them as writers in the song and they are writers in the song because the melody was close enough to it and you know that is like is that a song you had heard or is it just like I guess I had heard it at some point but I think it's just the fact that the chords land a certain way the melody felt right and it's one of those melodies that just kind of feels right over those chords and you know these things can happen and and to your point about you know Hollywood and and we wouldn't say the same thing about a movie um if it happens to me I think I'll I'll be cool about it

44:13Justin Tranter:like unless it's a an egregious thing yeah and it has before it's happened to me where um which is there's like so many layers to this I'm gonna try to tell it as quickly and as cleanly as possible me and Bebe Rexha wrote a song called I'm a Mess. I'm a mess, I'm a loser, I'm a hater, I'm a user. And then her team before it came out was like, it's very similar to I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child. Now, one's in a major key, one's in a minor key, I think. Music theory geeks don't slay me in the comments. but it was like okay we're listing things that we are and it's I'm a mess one syllable mess I'm a loser two syllables I'm a bitch one syllable I'm a lover two syllables okay let's reach out we reached out there are writers on the song awesome easy lovely I did love that song a lot when I was a kid yeah kid I was I think I was like 17 but I'm quite old but But reached out, fine.

45:19Justin Tranter:Then a year later, we get reached out to before a Tate McRae song comes out. And they're like, oh, we think we accidentally interpolated I'm a mess. And we're like, oh, well, we accidentally interpolated I'm a bitch. So now on the Tate McRae song, I'm a writer, BB's a writer, and then the Meredith Brooks and Shelly Pykin of I'm a bitch are writers on this Tate McRae song. It's a party. It's a party song. It's a party song. So I have a Tate McRae cut because she accidentally interpolated us and I accidentally interpolated a song from the 90s. But also it just proves it's a great melody and it's super hooky and no one was doing anything that was bad.

46:07Is that your strangest co-write cut you have?

46:11Justin Tranter:That's my strangest for sure. I mean, there's other really strange stories of like, I met Roger, who's a big producer writer. I met him in an airport and he was like, oh my God, it's so nice to finally meet you. We have a huge hit together. And I was like, we do? And he was like, yeah, I'm the one who did the track with Ricky Reed on Halsey Bad at Love. And I was like, oh, I knew that there was another writer on there because we wrote to a track that Ricky had for the most part made before me and Halsey showed up. But I didn't Roger hadn't had hits yet so when I had to approve the original splits and saw his name, his name didn't ring any bells because I didn't know who it was.

46:59Justin Tranter:So that was also a funny co-writer because now he's gone on to be massive and we had a hit song together before I ever met him. That's so funny. And we've still never written in the room together. We've tried, it just always doesn't happen. What's your weirdest? Um, I, I have a cut on Kelly Clarkson's album, not the most recent one, the one before. Okay. I was working with, uh, Jesse Shatkin and I had started this guitar loop, like basically three guitar parts that loop together and create sort of one sort of chord structure. Didn't have any melodies or anything. And it was literally just four chords and, and, you know, a couple of guitar parts.

47:43And then I get an email from my publisher like two years later. And it's like, hey, just want to make sure you're good with these splits for this Kelly Clarkson cut. I'm like, what? And to make it even one layer stranger, like, yeah, it's you, Jesse, Kelly, and Steve Martin. I'm like, what? With Steve Martin? He's playing banjo on the song.

48:05Justin Tranter:Oh, my God. That is so funny. So I'm like, what is happening? I thought it was like a weird dream. But yeah, I've got a cut with Steve Martin and Kelly Clarkson. Oh, my. It's an odd one. That is amazing. Well, speaking of odd co-writes, what is something about you as a songwriter and you as an artist that you don't think the world knows about you? About your process or about? yeah well it's funny because i'd be curious to to actually hear what what you might think so maybe after you can chime in because you've you know we've written so many songs together i don't you know you've you've had a real window into it but i think um Um, I think they may not know that I, I am, uh, like obsessed with the math problem of songwriting to a degree that like, sometimes I think I, I may, I may forget to just let go and be inspired and just go with what feels right.

49:18Yeah. Because I'm like thinking about lyrically the math, when I say math, I mean like, are we, are we completing this idea? Is it, is it fully, are we setting up the chorus the best way possible? Um, you know, and it's sort of a thing that I think has been really helpful at times, but also as I continue to try to grow and get better each day, I'm like, I need to care a little bit less. You look less like fragile about it. Because the times I've just let go and done that, I feel like the results have been great. But it's easy to get kind of too obsessed with that thing. Do you feel that way at times?

50:00Justin Tranter:I think that my superpower is just getting things across the finish line in like a sense of excitement and joy. So I let everybody else obsess. while I take care of the macro, whether that's macro of the songwriting or it's the macro of the vibe. Because also I'm clocking the tiny math of the melodies and everything normally quietly and I don't ever bring it up unless I can't get it there without people noticing. Yeah. Because I try really hard to make sure that every melodic phrase, each section, starts in a different spot. I want to make sure that the rhyme sound is different for each section of the song.

50:52Justin Tranter:And I try to do all of that internally to not put math on the vibe. Yeah. But sometimes you have to just stop and go, guys, we've literally, like the entire song is like an A rhyme. and there's only so many rhymes for a day. We have to stop before we die. Sometimes you have to put your foot down. I think what people would maybe not know about you as a writer is how much, I think a lot of people assume that when people are known as singers that all we're really thinking about is what we're singing, which is the most important part of a song. However, it's all important and you care deeply about the instrumental slash track side of a record.

51:41Justin Tranter:I think you can, in a great way, you can become very obsessed with, I want a song that feels like this sonically and you will fight in a good way to get that sound. I think that people might not know because I think most people just assume, oh, a producer's handling all of that. But you play everything and you are very in tune to what you want something to sonically feel like, which I think always, that always surprises me when singers are like that, because for the most part, we aren't. It's true. It's like, well, what am I singing? Let's just get to me. This new joke, this new bit that I've been working on.

52:21Justin Tranter:Try it out here, try it out here. Friendly crowd, friendly crowd. When, you know, the team's like, hey, we'd just like to know X, and it could be anything. It's like, what time would you like to do this thing, the interview, or get to the airport, whatever it is. And if I'm like, I don't, if I just don't know, or I don't have the answer, I just, I just say, I just sing. Yeah. That's all I do. I just sing. Yeah. I, but I think that obviously it's your new bit, but there is something to that. Yeah. When people ask me what I'm doing tomorrow, I'm like, do you, if I had my schedule for tomorrow memorized, I would have a mental breakdown.

53:01Yes.

53:02Justin Tranter:I need to just go and do my thing. Someone else has to know what my schedule is tomorrow. Else there's too much. I completely agree. I do know what I'm doing tomorrow though. What are you doing? I'm going to Disneyland. No way. Taking my daughter to Disneyland. Wow. Just you and her or is it free coming? No, it's a family. Vance, me, Priyanka and our daughter. And then we have some friends in from India, from out of town. Their six-year-old son. And so a lot of sunscreen, hydrate. This is the most hard hitting question of this very important podcast. How does it feel being married to the most attractive person alive?

53:44Justin Tranter:And I am as gay as they come. But when I see your wife, especially in person, I'm just like, you are, it is the top of the, it's the top of the mountain. How does that feel? Um, it's not saying that you're not beautiful, but there's a, there's a, there's a, no, she's, she's at the top of the mountain. She's at the top of the mountain. Yeah. I am, you know, often, uh, sort of taken aback by just how beautiful she is. Um, and you know, the, the powerhouse of a, of a person that she is. Every day, you know, she's, she's not just handling, you know, being a mother and a wife and support to all of the family.

54:40She's, she's amazing in that aspect. But then she's like running a massive operation, both as an actor, a producer, or a brand ambassador for a couple of the biggest brands in the world. And I'm doing it all with such kindness and enthusiasm.

54:58Justin Tranter:Yeah. It's pretty profound. And yeah, then on top of that, she's stunning. It's really crazy. It's when I saw you guys' Dodgers show at the Dodgers Stadium a couple years ago, and she was like chilling backstage in like a leather dress. I was just like, that was supposed to be me. I should look like that in a leather dress. Like, why don't I look that good in a leather dress on a Tuesday at Dodgers? I know. It's not fair. It's not fair. It was deeply upsetting. You should have told her. It's really upsetting. I had it covered. Don't worry. Yeah. Morgan couldn't speak. Yeah. And I mean this with the utmost respect, but I have never, I understand what it's like to be a man.

55:41Justin Tranter:I think I've never had a visceral, visceral reaction to a woman like that. And let me tell you, when she hugged me the way I leaned into that hug, I was like, nice to meet you. Now I can just die. Yeah. She's, yeah. And she smells great too. Yeah. Superstar, superstar, superstar family going to Disney. And this will air after you're at Disney. So you won't be, you won't be, we can't, the people can't stalk you, but they will see you pretty quickly. Yeah. But the key is, you know, to go hard with the merch. Explain. So like wear the Disney hat, wear the shirt, because then you sort of blend in.

56:20Love it. If you're like sunglasses on trying to be like incognito, you stick out like a sore thumb. Yeah. The other thing is that I could always just be like, no, I'm just the character at the park of Nick Jonas, not the real one.

56:33Justin Tranter:Has that ever happened? Does someone think you're the character? Um, it, it hasn't, but I, I have seen kids, you know, cause the, the core of, of our audience is, you know, twenties to, to 40, kind of our ages, me and the brothers ages. And now there's this whole new generation of fans because of, you know, our TV shows being re-aired on Disney plus or the Christmas movie, people being reintroduced, introduced to us for the first time, basically since sucker. So like six years. and so there's like young people who who are just confused to see the person they've seen on their tv out in the wild because they don't really think of us as like real people yet we're just characters on the show and i i get why that would be really confusing yeah do have you as there happened where kids like who are watching the on disney plus the old jonas brothers disney stuff and they see you in real life and they're like why are you a grown-up now yes yeah well that happens a lot um actually the the main one i get from young people who are not like jonas brothers music fans who are just like seeing me and things it'll be like are you the guy from jumanji and they're just confused like why i'm out in the real world that's yeah that must be do you like that do you like that i mean it's i'm i'm you're like listen little kid i sell out stadiums yeah I'm really proud to be a part of that franchise because it's, it's rarefied air to be in anything that, that grosses a billion dollars to the box office.

58:10And you know, both of those movies either did or got the second one got very close. And so it's a really special thing not to get too like heavy about it, but it's like, I am so proud of that. And, and you know, the third one comes out on Christmas day. Awesome. but it is funny it's like you know the association with me as that guy in the video game is like it's just jarring for kids like why are you like out here like as if the game has entered the real world

58:39Justin Tranter:I remember when you were promoting the first Jumanji is when we were ready for ready for I'm gonna brag about us when we were nominated for a Golden Globe together yes and when we did that we did that and it was the coolest day I don't know if we've ever talked about this afterwards it was the coolest day ever for me at the Golden Globes because Kelly Clarkson was on our table. Yeah. I was kind of distracted that night. Once, you know, we didn't win. We did not win. I mean, getting on. Spoiler alert. Everyone says it. It is absolutely true, though. Like, just being nominated, ugh, I hate that I said that, is so cool.

59:16It's such an amazing feeling.

59:18Justin Tranter:Especially the first time you're nominated at a different thing. Yeah. It's the coolest fucking thing ever. It was really special. And to have shared that with you, was really special. It was really awesome. We end every episode with a game called Gag or Drag. Gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. Okay. You have enough gay friends. You know that. Yes. Some guests, I have to explain that. So just in case. Okay. Gag, you love it. Drag, you hate it. Gag or drag watching yourself on screen. Oof. It's terrible, but it depends. It depends on what it is. But I'm going to say drag because I don't love it.

59:52But if it's... I don't know. There are times I do, actually. What makes you love it? If you look great? It's less about how I look. It's more if I'm like, oh, this scene slaps. I did a good job. I did a good job or like the writing's really good and I'm glad I got to do it. Yeah. It's like that happens. It's not really when I'm like, oh, I look cool. Because speaking of Jumanji, there's a couple of hero shots in that that are really cool, but I'm like, oh, God. Turn it off. It's embarrassing. You're like, you know, because you're doing the thing. But it's also very cool. Yeah. So I don't know.

1:00:25it's hard to we also sometimes offer a meh meh okay great gag or drag reading your own comment section uh drag yeah i because it's it only makes you feel anxiety and uh like stress even if it's

1:00:44Justin Tranter:really positive you're like well she's gonna drop i feel like um i'm experiencing a comment section somewhat close now to what you've experienced. Nowhere is close. I'm not delusional about my success or my exposure, but K-pop fans are really passionate. Very passionate. And... But, yeah, go ahead. And I have never... K-pop is fun, and it's just over the top, and it's about the visuals. So when I started saying yes to a couple opportunities, I was like, oh, this will be a riot. Yeah. it's a literal riot in the comment section in the comment section yeah that's i think because there's like this it's a it's a sort of like responsibility yeah you know what i mean like they're they're it's true i've been to um blackpink show and a bts show and thoroughly enjoyed both and learned a lot about how to build a show that has solo moments and then the group moments.

1:01:53It's really amazing to see. But I was really taken aback by the community aspect of it in the sense that it was just like, wow, they're all in sync. It's one sort of military-like thing.

1:02:08Justin Tranter:It's really cool. You're right. There is a responsibility to what K-pop is because even though it's so massive now, For so long, at least here, it was this niche thing that the fans that have been there the whole time take it very serious, which is... Did you write Pinky Up? I did, yes. It's amazing. Thank you. It's incredible. Thank you very much. Like, it's legit. It's like an important song in culture. I will take it. Why I think it's important culturally is because it's doing a thing that is starting a conversation and saying that it's okay not to be so serious all the time. Yeah. It's okay to have fun.

1:02:53It's okay to have fun. And to express yourself in whatever way you want. And also, I quote Socrates.

1:03:00Justin Tranter:Like, I don't know what more you want from me. Yeah. So go off. So go off. Okay. Gag or drag family group texts? Gag. Gag. Yeah, it's solid. It's just a lot of kid pictures, which I love. Right. Yeah. You know, my nieces, my daughter, like it's all that stuff. Yeah. But drag as a sort of tandem to that. Yeah, please. Is voicemails. Voice notes in the group text. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In general, whether it's family or not, like I don't, I can't sit there and I can read at my own pace, which I'm a fast reader or I can read. but if I have to wait for you, I'm like, what is happening? Why are you doing this?

1:03:47Justin Tranter:Voice notes are tricky. Voice notes are a polarizing topic. I think it's unsent or something. It like disappears. If you didn't want me to, why did you send it to me? It's like, I can only access this information then. It's frustrating. It is. Voice notes get stressful. You're like, I know, you know how much I love song math. Like I need you to structure this voice note. If you want me to listen to it, get to the point. Yeah, verse, pre-chorus, chorus. Thank you. Um, gag or drag method actors? Drag. Drag. Yeah. Yeah. Just try some acting. I mean, I, I think it's great to take your job seriously and anything you do and to, to really care about the process.

1:04:27I'm not saying that. And I respect people that have a process and that's the process, but I think that you should be able to just do it as well.

1:04:36Justin Tranter:Yeah. without ruining everybody's life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just try some acting. Gag or drag singing a song you wrote 15 years ago? Gag. Gag. It's even more special now than it was then. And I knew that was going to be your answer because I know the deep amount of respect that you have for your fans. Yes. And it's bringing them that nostalgia is very important to you. And I know that firsthand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. And... you know, it's funny. The only thing that perhaps like didn't age well in some of those songs is, is references to technology specific to that time, which is something that I learned later on, like not to reference specific technology things.

1:05:20So there are times that's kind of funny where it's like, I'm referencing I am instant messenger.

1:05:25Justin Tranter:No, really? Or like, wait, which song is I am in? Um, SOS. Oh yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But I will say as someone who's seen your show many times, those old songs that feel, that have those very specific dated references, they go off. Off. Like they were, they're number one on the chart right now. That's wild. And there's such a power in letting people have that nostalgia that it's, I agree. It's crazy. Okay, gag or drag being the youngest sibling? But you're not. Franklin's, yeah, but I know what you're saying. Yeah. I I think kind of kind of gag because you know you can watch and observe the mistakes of yeah your older siblings and just kind of yeah avoid that but we have you know we've always had a really odd dynamic in that I'm I they don't treat me like the younger brother um that we yeah it's just our dynamic is it's just different but if if I was like being bullied by them so then it would be a drag for sure.

1:06:34Yeah. Yeah, I'm the youngest

1:06:37Justin Tranter:of four and the bullying was never fun. That definitely happened. But I was the learning from your older brothers fucking up is so awesome. It's great. Like, oh, your mom and dad's favorite. I'm like, no, I'm just not ruining their lives. This is just so much easier. It's that simple. Gag or drag rewatching your like very old work? Um,

1:07:08gag because it's, it's crazy that so much of my, my life is like documented.

1:07:16Justin Tranter:That must be wild. Like I, I don't remember so many things. I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah. That was insane. Yeah. Um, and I, I think that when I was a kid, not to get too heady, but I was, I was so fearless and full of joy and you know I can actually see the difference of like when life happened and I like I started behaving differently not smiling as much and like seeing that younger version of myself I'm like wow it's not a thing a lot of people get to see outside of home videos and things like that right but I have like thousands of hours on YouTube that I could watch of just endless proof that you used to be happier.

1:07:56Exactly.

1:07:59Justin Tranter:Well, with that leads to perfectly one of one of Morgan's last questions here, which is not a gag or drag, just a full circle. What do you think that people misunderstand about growing up in the public? And not this is not like, oh, being famous is hard. Those questions are insane and boring. What do you think that people? I guess you kind of just said, though, having that documentation of your life is probably something people don't really think about. Yeah. I think that it's that. And also that not everything is a part of some devious plan, you know, for us, whether it was, um, things like the purity rings, which people were really interested in and, uh, or like who we were dating, these types of things aren't part of some script, right?

1:08:48You know, just because your life is in the public eye, like you're just a teenager or a kid, like just growing up, doing what everybody else is doing, figuring it out like everybody else. And I agree with your point. This is not, this, this answer is not like being celebrities hard. It's just context that when I look at a person who's living in the public eye as a young person, you know, in their teens or early twenties, and people kind of come at it from that angle of like, oh, this is, they're marketing their album by this dating. I'm like,

1:09:18Justin Tranter:maybe they're just trying to figure it out. they're also just like they're a young working person and they just meet other people they're working with yeah it's like just let let them let them like live their life figured out on their own and and you know i'm grateful that that i feel like from when we started to to now you know i do think people are are are chilling out on how like much they're inserting themselves in people's business. But I think, you know, it's just life. You're just kind of figuring things out. Yeah. What do you wish that you knew about collaboration now that you knew when you were younger?

1:10:00Justin Tranter:As our final question, what sort of advice would you give your younger self about the art of collaboration? How to be a better collaborator?

1:10:12I would say that I would tell my younger self, it's okay to be wrong, to, to, to not chase down a thing to, to its completion, just cause you feel like that's the only way. Um, you can, you can work it up at 99 % and still go, you know what, let's go back and fix this or make it better or change this thing. So I guess the, in summary, it's like, it's not about completing the task or completing the song or whatever. It's about like maybe letting it breathe sometimes and just going, I don't have it right now, but we'll, we'll figure it out. And I do that now. There are times, you know, we've done it where we start a verse and a chorus and go, we'll come back to this when we feel like we know what it is.

1:11:01And being able to just kind of go hands off and just give it some space, I think is important.

1:11:07Justin Tranter:Yeah. I think, I think that's a great, great lesson to learn of like things are allowed to have space and also not everything even has to get finished. Yeah. Some things are just like that one, isn't it? Exactly. And I think when I first started doing the pop session world where you're in a scheduled session every day, I was like, we must always finish. And for the most part, I still do. But like just being like, that one isn't ever going to be good and that's okay. Or maybe it's going to be good in a year and we have to deal with it then. Yeah. I love going back into like my folder of unreleased songs.

1:11:42Yeah. And just going, are any of these like, Like, have they aged well? And sometimes I get surprised. I'm like, oh, this wasn't right then, but the popular sound has moved that direction. We were just premature there. And it's like, there's so many. And that just speaks to the bigger point, which is like, it's okay to just not finish something or put it on a shelf and dust it off when it feels right. Yeah, love it.

1:12:11Justin Tranter:Everybody, Nick Jonas. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming.

1:12:21Justin Tranter:Hello, hello, everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say please follow and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday. At Plies.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100 % satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows.

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