Recap | How Artists Rebuild, Find Their Identity + Build the Right Team

0:00I literally thought that it was the end for me. Right. And thank God they dropped me so that I didn't get shelved.

0:10Justin Tranter:More and more and more and more and more, the work is all in the artist's hands. And the artist has to get themselves from one to five, and the label can get you to five to ten. That is a very different person you're looking at. And I think without this journey that they've been on, there wouldn't have been an opportunity for them to develop themselves into who they truly are. Working with an emerging artist is 20 ,000 times harder. They weren't in a scarcity mindset where they were like, I need an artist or I need a manager. And if I don't get one now, like I'm going to lose opportunity. This version of myself that got signed, I was young.

0:51Justin Tranter:I was figuring myself out. this actually wasn't even who I was. I ripped my skirt because ass too fat. Hey, that's a good problem to have. We like kissed on stage. By accident. By accident. Again and again and again and again. I am still sick. Hello. Welcome to Unfamous, the podcast where we talk about the art of collaboration. I'm Justin Tranter. I write songs and it's fierce. This is Morgan Stewart, my co-creator. who is a genius and a lesbian. And we are doing these little mini episodes where we kind of do our like favorite highlights from episodes of the past. Yeah. And this episode was so awesome and so cool because it is our most viewed episode.

1:45Justin Tranter:And what brings me so much joy about that is that is with Valencia Grace and Kyle Stewart, Morgan's brother, who's a manager. He manages, you know, is on the management team for Duran Duran and a bunch of awesome people. But Valencia Grace is a new artist that he is helping build from the ground up. And what made me so excited that this was our most viewed episode is that it's clear that people have such a curiosity about how the fuck you start a career. in music business specifically, because I'm a songwriter, so lots of people are coming here for the mysteries of the music business. But in any sort of creative industry, starting a career is so hard.

2:34Justin Tranter:And Valencia had some crazy viral moments a couple years ago. And then you can't plan virality, so it slowed down. So she got dropped from her record deal. And so to see that just a story about someone who is not a household name yet, that is just awesome and fighting the good fight. To see that that did so well made me really proud of us. Yeah, absolutely. And I love their dynamic because they do have an actual friendship. Kyle is like truly a fan of Valencia's work, which is super important. For a manager to be an actual fan. Especially when you're trying to build an artist while they're trying to figure out what their creative identity is, what like honing in on their sound.

3:15And so, yeah, this first clip really talks about how Kyle as a manager is working to expand Valencia's vision. Yeah, I mean, we met for like a period of a few months before we like made it official. Oh, that's smart. No, that was amazing. Like something that I really appreciated about them was because I had gone through like some teams before, it was very important to me not to rush it. And they just completely gave me grace to date. Slow burn. Slow burn relationship. Yeah. But it was last summer that we started talking about it. And she came with like a you came with a set list of what it was.

3:56A list of songs, rather. Yeah. And she just kind of gave it to me and was just like, what do you think? And I said, well, just let me listen through the whole thing and just give me a second.

4:07Justin Tranter:Yeah. And he went, I have the set list. Here's the order. She let me tweak it so hardcore. And I just said, I think this is what you should do. But like, take this, do whatever you want with it. And then you just kind of like immediately were like, yeah, it was it was Kyle. So I like, I mean, I'm such a believer of allowing space for the people that I work with and collaborate with. Because like, you're really good at your job. I'm gonna do my job and I'll let you do yours and we can you know like lift each other up that way so I kind of was like here's the songs that I envisioned me playing yeah and then he came up with the whole concept of it being like different acts and that then inspired me so I could I could go on like even about like I'm thinking about album stuff or even future albums like projects Like even him telling me or asking me, like, what do you want your mic to look like?

5:13I didn't even know that I could like decorate my mic.

5:17Justin Tranter:She is one of those people that. What else is she going to do in this world besides be a pop star? No, it's life or death. It's life or death. And to have, you know, the manager is the trickiest thing for a musician. artists, whatever you want to call it. Because management is normally a label, right? It's like, okay, you start as somebody's assistant and you, then you're a coordinator and you can, you grow inside of the label and you learn the system. Now, Kyle, your brother does work for a very experienced, longtime manager and is growing through knowledge and mentorship and blah, blah, blah.

6:03Yeah.

6:03Justin Tranter:A lot of managers in this world are just like, oh, I'm a manager now. Yeah. And it is the trickiest fucking everything about the music business is the wild west and is creepy and odd for the most part. Managers are normally the oddest and weirdest and least trustworthy of all of it because it's just you just decide I'm a manager today. Yeah. And you Kyle's doing it the right way coming up through a company and blah, blah, blah. But there is very many people out there who just saw someone online and went, oh, I'm going to try to make money off of them. I'm a manager now. Yeah. And by the way, Wendy Laster is his boss from Vegas Entertainment.

6:44And she is somebody who like she's a woman who has been managing one of the biggest bands ever, Duran Duran, like came up through some really tough decades. Like Like she's brilliant. She is really tough, but she also still has this like poise and the softness. And I mean, he's learning a lot. Also, Kyle would never work for a man.

7:10Justin Tranter:So she's like perfect for him. But yeah, I think it is really interesting also because like for a manager, for an artist like this, like Valencia is a creative who likes creative input from other people. She's very conceptual, very creative. Which was really surprised me. Right. Someone who looks like that to go on a podcast, you would assume wants no input from anyone else. She's very collaborative, very collaborative, really cares about what other people think. Even the way she is with her fans, like it's very inclusive. Valencia's creating a world and she's inviting everyone into it, but still has discernment.

7:56Like I have worked, I work with both of them. I've worked on music videos with Valencia and there have been times where the director has deferred to me, you know, for an answer to a question. And she was like, oh, don't you think you should be asking me that? And I was like, yes, bitch, speak up. Like, I love it. So there is like a level of discernment and intelligence while also being like hyper collaborative with people, which I think is very exciting. but also not all managers are creative and it's just like figuring out like if you're an artist looking for a manager or if you're a manager looking for an artist it's like figuring out like you need to know what you want out of the other to really understand like is this going to be a good match and I think that's why it's so cool that they weren't in a scarcity mindset where they were like I need an artist or I need a manager and if I don't get one now like I'm going to lose opportunity.

8:54Like, thank God they took the time to make sure they were a match. And like, they're really evolving and developing something great together because of that.

9:02Justin Tranter:Yeah. Our next clip is actually goes into why emerging artists are harder to manage than established artists. Working with an emerging artist is 20 ,000 times harder. There isn't a specific sort of sheet of your roles and responsibilities for management. You're wearing so many hats. And, you know, because Duran has been around for like four decades, over four decades now, in terms of the creative,

9:36they're already established creatively, so I didn't really have much input there at all. But there was a moment on her tour in D.C. We played at this venue called Songbird, which is this really cute venue. That show was kind of a hot ass mess. No, but it was amazing. I like bent down one too many times. I ripped my skirt because ass too fat.

9:58Justin Tranter:Hey, that's a good problem to have. We like kissed on stage. By accident. By accident. I like trying to rip her skirt off of her because it's hanging on by a thread. I can't get it off and like... No, it was, you come on to help me with my guitar because, you know, I was born with, you know, I was very lucky with my jeans and have been given this lovely head of hair. However, putting on a guitar strap, yes, so I have Kyle help me, and I said, okay, well, if you come on stage, you always have to, like, give me a little kiss before you go. And then there was one in D.C. when we both accidentally looked at the right time and we kissed on stage, and everyone went, ooh!

10:40So that is a big difference

10:43Justin Tranter:of managing an emerging artist. Oh, my God, if I did that to Simon Le Bon, I think I'd literally just die. Yeah, I just think this is really interesting because of course, like managing any type of artist is going to be really tough. But like, especially with an emerging artist, there are all these things you're trying to figure out. You're also trying to state their case to people who don't even know who the fuck they are yet. Never heard a name, never heard a song. Why you should care. But then also it's like, there probably isn't money. So like, you're very close emotionally. physically, personally, like you're crammed in a van together going on tour.

11:20This type of shit is going down. The manager is also now like the seamstress and the stylist, like, you know, during that mishap on stage. And then they're also like hilariously in a playful way, embarrassing each other, you know, with the kiss on stage and people are making noises. And, um, yeah, I mean, it's not easy.

11:38Justin Tranter:It, um, this has nothing to do with management, but it reminds me of a story. I used to be in a band, Stunning Purchase of Weapons, and we were playing a show in, oh my God, some really small, Montgomery, Alabama. How was that? Shouldn't have been there. I was in full makeup, six inch heels, and I wore, my outfit that night was a priest's collar. And it's like a little like Dickie, It's like a priest dickie. I don't know if anyone's ever seen one, but it's like, so it's like the thing that you think of, like the black with the little white sticking out, but then there was like a dickie open back because you put a shirt over it.

12:25Justin Tranter:But no, honey, I was just serving open back. I was really thin. I was, it was pussy. And black tights and stripper boots, like six inch heels, but like boots that were like lime green that I like splattered with purple paint. Love. and there was these people in the front row, not because they wanted, they liked the band because they were harassing me. And they kept just screaming through the entire set, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all these things. And I finally just like stopped the band. And I said, if you keep talking, I'm going to put this heel through your eye. And they didn't believe me.

13:13Justin Tranter:And they kept talking. They kept talking. And I decided before I blind them, I'll just assault them. So I literally just like put the mic close to their face and smacked one of them as hard as possible. And the entire audience, of course, started applauding. And I said, I may look like a pussy, but I fight like a cunt. And then the entire place erupted. and it was one of the most glorious moments of my entire career. Even though the entire place erupting, I think maximum capacity at this venue was like a hundred people. Oh my God. So you dom topped the Bible belt in a priest dickie and stiletto knee high boots.

13:57Isn't that amazing? Oh God, that is the...

14:01Justin Tranter:And that's how you learn how to survive executives. Fuck yes. Our next clip has to do with that. I mean, yeah, it's dealing with executives and getting dropped. Oh, there you go. And getting free. Yeah. I remember, like, brainstorming ways of how I could call, like, the president of the label to, like, convince him that it would be worth keeping me on. Like, I was not okay. I literally thought that it was the end for me. Right. And, I mean, maybe that's dramatic, but I just, I wasn't happy, obviously, because I was, you know, I was losing, who was going to pay for my shit? Yeah. Right. Period.

14:51So I'm like, damn, I'm going to be, like, real poor after this. and then I literally like thank god they dropped me so that I didn't get shelved they like respected me enough as an artist to let me free because they very well could have been like okay but let's just place a bet on Valencia and let's keep them in the label and then it's like you can't release anything you can't do anything so I'm very happy but at the time it was absolutely terrifying but the good news was was that i had lawyers that were able to argue um a sum of money that would that that was because if you're you're signing an artist i was 17 when i was signed and so the whole like purpose of giving an advance is so that you quit your coffee job or a job at like tesco's so they they hire you yeah so they give you an advance so that you you quit your jobs and then when they drop you yes you're an artist but like come on you know you like have no job and you have no income right and um also depending on where you are in your career and i was able to argue with some of money being like i deserve like you need to let me go with something and so it was that money that i took myself to new york and then stopped working with my management.

16:16Justin Tranter:What a little fucking genius. Genius. I think I said this in the episode. I've never heard of someone like getting like a fucking severance when they're dropped from a label. I mean, it's like really impressive that them and their team figured that out. It's like really, really, really impressive. Hello, I am Justin Tranter, songwriter and host of Unfamous. And between the long studio sessions, filming, traveling, and all of the other pieces that come with making music for a living, I know how easy it is to let work take over everything. Sometimes I'm a proud workaholic, but workaholism has its downfalls.

16:53Justin Tranter:I definitely have periods where I'm so focused on what needs to get done that taking care of myself becomes the thing I keep pushing down on the list. And the funny part is, when you're already stressed and burned out, finding support can feel like a whole other job. You have to figure out who's taking new patients, who takes your insurance, and who actually feels right for you. That's why I love what Rula is doing. Finding a therapist is hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's where most online therapy platforms fall short. Many don't work with insurance at all, which means you're stuck paying the full cost out of pocket or paying for an expensive monthly subscription.

17:33Justin Tranter:Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average co-pay just$15 per session. That's real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. And Rula isn't just about affordability. They help you find an in-network therapist who's actually aligned with what you need. They consider your goals, preferences, and background to provide you a curated list of licensed therapists. With a network of over 15 ,000 therapists and psychiatrists nationwide, you can find personalized care and the right therapist for you. And appointments can be available as soon as tomorrow.

18:14Justin Tranter:Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com slash unfamous to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash unfamous. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com slash Unfamous to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash Unfamous. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. It is such an important lesson of everyone in the music business who's trying to be in the business thinks a record deal is the golden ticket, is a lottery ticket, is a winning lottery ticket.

19:14Justin Tranter:More and more and more and more and more, the work is all in the artist's hands. and the artist has to get themselves from one to five and the label can get you to five to 10. And that's daunting and it's exhausting, but it's also so freeing. Because really it's like, okay, no, this is up to me. You know, I'm deeply involved in a couple new up and coming artists careers. And it's just like the labels they're on are so excited about them and so passionate. But it's like, are you going to get up every day and figure out a new way to post about yourself and a new way to sell yourself to the internet?

20:00Justin Tranter:Because if the label does it, the fans fucking know. And it smells like bullshit and it doesn't travel. It gets no views. The difference between when you know the artist just picked up their fucking phone and did something versus there was a whole team paid to make a TikTok. It is like you can see night and day in the views. Absolutely. And, you know, if you go back and listen to Valencia's music from when they were on a label or like watch the music videos, the music is great. It is. But that is a very different person you're looking at. And I think without this journey that they've been on, there wouldn't have been an opportunity for them to develop themselves into who they truly are as a non-binary person, as this type of like visual representation of who they are as an artist now.

20:55I mean, I don't know. I, you know, maybe the label would have been open to it, but also it's like, well, that's not what they invested in. And you're not big enough to just suddenly make this jarring change completely so it's like you know now there's this just new era of valencia this like highly conceptual world that they're building and it's you know it that needed to happen so if you're dropped if you get that label deal and you're dropped it doesn't mean the end of your

21:24Justin Tranter:career it's just the beginning of a new chapter of artists who found themselves creatively after who are getting dropped and then became superstars is shocking. Like most of them, Katy Perry, Chapel Roan, Lady Gaga, the list is much longer than that. Yeah. It's endless because there's something about like, okay, this version of myself that got signed, I was young, I was figuring myself out. This actually wasn't even who I was. and that's why it wasn't working. That's why it wasn't connecting. And then you get dropped and it's terrifying, but then it goes, okay, fuck it. I'm on my own now. You know, like a song I wrote with Chapel when she was dropped, it's called My King is Karma and her going to make that video for My King is Karma.

22:19Justin Tranter:You can see it's her figuring out like this explosion of creativity of like, oh, right, fuck it. This is who I am when I go and make a video for free with my friends. Yeah. This is what I do for free with my friends. Oh, this is who I am. Yeah. So the moral of this clip is get a label, let them drop you, get severance, and then go on your own creative journey. Get a sugar daddy, let him die, and then take the money and eat, pray, love. You know what I mean? I just like, you know, it's a crime against humanity that Anna Nicole Smith never had a pop career. Next clip. No, she did do a music video, My Heart Belongs to Daddy.

23:01Yeah.

23:01Justin Tranter:Oh, yeah, she did. And she scats in it. Oh, my. Well, you know what? We should do a whole episode just on Anna Nicole. Anna Nicole Smith. Yeah. And about just, like, media domination. Yeah, what's her lesbian assistant? Let's get her on. Okay, and the next clip is about artistic identity and what inspires you and what makes you unique and different. I love Shrek the musical. Did you play Shrek? No. Because you said you played all the male roles. I played Fagin. Wait, is that his? No, no, no, wait. Wait, that's an Oliver. Lord Farquaad. I was like, there's a character named F***. What'd you call it?

23:46Justin Tranter:This podcast is over. No, see, I was Fagin, who was the male. You were Lord? I was Lord Farquaad. but I was on my knees. Oh my God. How old were you playing Lord, what's his name? Farquaad. Farquaad. What'd you call me? Farquaad. Oh my God. Um, uh, I was under the age 11. Oh my God. Yeah. It's just like. Does he the one with like the weird wig? Yes. The fuck ass bob. Love. Oh, what a present surprise. he's like you know walks on his knees so while you were playing the lord you were like that's it i'm gonna make music till the day i fucking die and it was actually like okay so maybe this isn't this is just i'm just really really inspired by um shrek the musical there's a the version like the original version that of like the broadway like the first show it's on um it's on netflix I think, or at least it's on YouTube.