Rose Gray | From Louder, Please to "Club to Your Arms"

21:47Justin Tranter:Tell me, even though I kind of know because we wrote it together, but I think Clubbed Your Arms is a great example of what you do so well, which is if you don't want to pay attention, it's a fucking party. Yeah. If you want to pay attention, there's a full story there. Yeah. And both versions of listening are totally valid. Yeah, yeah. what is the story of Club to Your Arms? Because also it started as a different song. The Great Storm of England. The Great Storm of England. Club to Your Arms started for a good two hours. We tried to write a song called The Great Storm of England. This is a perfect example how you should not give up on a song because it was a terrible title.

22:29And I think I was, and even I, this is where you're so brilliant because I think you maybe knew that I was going down a bit of a rabbit hole with the whole storm thing.

22:39Justin Tranter:I did, yes. Yeah, but you just let me navigate it. It's an hour or two, who cares? So I just got back. I was just about to go to Brazil. I think I was in LA for a couple of days. Come to Brazil. Come to Brazil was happening. I was in a very chaotic time. It was like the end of the year. I was pretty exhausted. I just had my headline shows in Europe. And I said to you, I was like, Justin and Zone, I was like, I just, my partner just said I'm like a storm. I come home from tour with all my suitcases. I'm chaotic. I destroy the house. I'm out. I'm at an event. You know, I'm barely making time for my friends, my family, for my partner.

23:26I just feel like I'm a storm. And so we started to write the song, The Great Storm.

23:31Justin Tranter:And the reason why I let it happen is because the idea of the story of like, I love my partner deeply, but my dreams are also coming true. Yeah. So I don't really have time to be a good partner. Yeah. These are broad stroke terms. No, no, no. It's so true. So that essence, I was like, well, there's definitely a song in there and a song that I want to write. if it ends up being called the great storm of England. That is TBD. But I saw the brilliance in the idea. Yeah. And then we just let it. We let it go. Go. Hello, my little unfamous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, Little Miss algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it.

24:27Justin Tranter:So if you follow this podcast, what do the old school YouTubers say? Like, subscribe, and follow. If you do that for me, then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. Where did we arrive? I think we'd written the course. because I said club to your arms. Club to your arms was just the end of the pre-chorus. So that's the original version is that's not the main idea of the song. It was just the end of your pre-chorus because I always give credit where credit's due.

25:12Justin Tranter:You've pretty much freestyled. That verse. The first verse and pre-chorus. Yeah. 100 % of that melody you freestyled. Yeah. And then about 50-ish percent of those lyrics you freestyled. Yeah. I remember I said, I never felt so much pressure. Baby, I never looked better. I think I said showgirl fatigue. And did I go Balenciaga? Balenciaga came later. Balenciaga came later. You just went la-da-da. Balenciaga came later because - Oh, because it was going to be Prada. It was going to be - It was going to be changed it. It was going to be changed it because - He was like, Jason Balenciaga. Because Harry has a deal with Balenciaga.

25:55Justin Tranter:so funny so funny yeah it you freestyled Prada but Balenciaga and Prada luckily rhyme yeah so we were able to keep the same sound yeah yeah yeah and then that's also why the storm at the beginning there's storm at the beginning yeah um and then I think it was day two we deleted all the lyrics that talked about the great storm of England and wrote. Thank God, yeah. Thank God. So bad. Yeah, and then we not always like what we usually do, we went really in on the chorus and like picked it apart. Yeah. Which is what I do in other sessions, to be honest, but with you we don't usually have to do that.

26:46But this song felt something was not quite right.

26:51Justin Tranter:It wasn't right and also So a lot of times we start with the chorus together and we wait for that magic to show up. But the magic showed up for you in the verse and the pre. So it was not like most of our songs together and not like most of the songs in my life at all. Normally, for the most part, I would say 80 % of the time we start with the chorus. But that verse and pre melody just came to you. And we were so in love with it that we had to really fight for the right chorus. and we fought on this, not meaning fight each other, but fight the song for the right structure. We went deep together on it.

27:29Justin Tranter:And it's one of the rare occurrences where, because sometimes if you fight too hard on something, it sounds like we work too hard and it just sucks. Yeah. But that song, it feels effortless. And you lose that momentum kind of in the room. But when you found the melody for the current chorus, Yeah. Two hearts, trying to make it through. That came to you really fast. We just had to try like six different times to get there. So there still is that magic in there because it did come fast, but it was just the sixth try. I remember when I sung the two hearts part, I was like, oh no, this is already a song.

28:04But it's just because it feels so familiar.

28:06Justin Tranter:It's just so classic. It's just classic. Yeah, timeless. Yeah. What do you feel with Club to Your Arms, but the second album as a whole, what do you feel is different about it? from the first album? Definitely feels in a similar world, in a sonic world, to feel that. But I think from a narrative point of view, there's sort of some growth in my life and what I've been doing. And I've traveled so much over the last year. Like I have a lot more to write about and places and little, you know, my sort of usual things of like the Brooklyn, the YSL, I've got like loads more sort of phrases and things because I have so much more experience in the world.

28:56The voice thing really pushing my vocal and what I can do with my voice. There's, there's a kind of confidence that I feel. I feel it like within myself. I feel it in my career. I feel it in my writing. And I think that can be really felt throughout the record. There's a bit of a like, yeah, I'm here now. You know, Lauda Please felt like I didn't necessarily even know at times I was making an album. I was just so determined to get it out. And you know, the struggles to get it's out oh yeah like no one really apart from us and my management yeah we're backing it yeah at that point yeah and my like 120 fans they were desperate they were amazing all 112 were begging they were amazing yeah and you know like my mom and my pops you know big fans but um now I kind Yeah, I feel like there's people that want to hear what I have to say.

30:02Justin Tranter:What I love so much watching is that you are giving me so much faith that someone can grow a fan base without a viral moment. And I can't wait for your viral moment as one of your main co-writers and also just someone rooting for you. But to see you go from 100 tickets in LA nine months ago to 800 tickets sold two nights ago. Yeah. To see that without a viral moment, just people finding your music, sharing your music and loving it. It gives me faith that like artists that fucking deserve the world can still get it. It's slower. It's harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's longer. but also now when you get that viral moment there's this beautiful body of work there is a lot for them to dig into what do you feel like was your creative breakthrough when you were like okay this is what Rose Grey sounds like honestly I think when the week the record dropped oh cool it was kind of mad I did understand that I had made something brilliant.

31:23My friends were all, you know, they wanted the record. They wanted to play the record out months before it was done. Everyone was like, I need to hear that. I need April. I need a... So I had that. I knew it was great, but I think when it came out, it was quite like almost overnight, you know, I saw massive paragraphs of people like, what the hell, I can't believe I just discovered this song. or, you know, people that I'd grown up loving messaging me like, God, I just, you know, heard everything changes. And I think it was the first time I was like, oh, wow, no, this is, I think this is going to do something.

31:59I think my life might change now. I didn't understand the rollout of an album. I didn't understand touring. I didn't even have in-ears.

32:09Justin Tranter:Right. Like I didn't, I had three shows in my diary, January 2025. I did not know that. Yeah. Wow. And they were tiny 200-cap rooms in Manchester, Brighton, and London. Wow. And like that week, I think Kesha reached out about the tour, Sugar Babes, you know, people. I just was like, oh, wow. Okay. This is the first week. So I can't even imagine in like six months what will have happened. And it kind of, yeah, it's been gradual. It's slow. And so then having that feeling of dropping the first album and it being received with love that you weren't expecting, how does that affect you as we've been writing, almost done, basically done writing this album?

32:57Justin Tranter:But like having that confidence, does that change you as a writer when you go into to collaborate? right? Yeah, I think it has. I don't think I've like changed how I make music or the kind of, I'm definitely still the same writer and artist, but there is this confidence that's kind of like, I feel, I think you've probably seen it. I feel just so much more like in my body. Yeah. I think that's playing live though. And like feeling the crowd and just knowing that you've got thousands of people that are rooting for you. What I think has been great to watch with your confidence is, um, giving whether we're, while we're writing or after we've written is you giving your thoughts to producers.

33:47Yeah.

33:48Justin Tranter:And you and I will like talk or text on the side because I know a lot about songs. I do not know a lot about dance music. So when it comes to like like how it should sound. Once we get past the structure of the song, my job is done. Cocktail is being spun. And when it comes to like how this should sound, because we're working with a lot of unbelievable producers. Wizards, I call them wizards. True wizards. But you are the only one of anyone we're working with for the most part. There's exceptions, of course, but for the most part, who like spent a lot of time late in the morning or early in the morning, late at night, early in the morning, absorbing dance music for years.

34:36Justin Tranter:Like this is your world. How do you, when you're like giving notes to producers who have written some of the biggest songs of all time? I sometimes think about that. Like, oh God, I'm literally being like, you know, that little synthy twinkle. I want it to sound a bit more like a bubble I actually saw Madonna say something quite interesting about this when she was working with William Orbit I watched her I don't know if it's a documentary it's just like a YouTube 20 minute clip where it's her in the studio and she I don't think I necessarily understand a lot I should give myself a bit of credit I do know the elements of dance music and I can talk about synths and I can talk about this 808 But she just describes everything, like how it feels and sounds.

35:25And I think I do that in a lot of voice notes. I'm like, it's a little bit tinny, a little bit crunchy. You need to open it up.

35:33Justin Tranter:My favorite one was, I think it was at the end of the first chorus of Clubbed Your Arms. And Zone, who produced it, is a fucking genius and we're lucky to know him. And you were just like, Zone, there's a fart at the end of the first chorus. It has to go away. I know exactly what it was, though. It literally sound like a scratch. But watching you get the confidence to be like, no, I know what I want. And even if I can't describe it technically, I'm going to tell you what I want. It's been really awesome to watch because I don't know this world and you do. And do you feel like you're getting better at telling these straight men hit makers what you need or how has that process been for you?

36:23I'm getting better. I want to get better at it. I definitely am good. I'm a good voice noter. I won't, I'm, you know, I'm not going to ever put out anything that I'm not 100 % behind. Right. And I, you know, I did that with my first record. I was on an indie. I had full control to the point where I don't think my A &Rs even listened to it. No, they did. They did. I'm joking. Maybe. We'll never know. We'll never know. But I definitely, I'm just using that model of what I did with my first record for everything that I do moving forwards. It is mad though sometimes. Yeah, I'm in the studio and I'm like, oh wow, they literally like made my favorite songs.

37:07And I'm just like, no, no.

37:12Justin Tranter:But it's your album. You have to have that confidence. Yeah. Also we've made songs with, you know, huge people. And it's like, they are brilliant. And I'm aware of that. But then maybe they're just not me. Yeah. They are maybe too perfect. Yeah. In a way that I can't quite, it just doesn't stand behind what I'm doing. Yeah. But there is, you always say, I sometimes think I'm a little bit scared of like an amazing pop song. Like there's a slight fear sometimes. Yes. We have a thing. What is that? I don't know what it is. Where for the most part, the songs that you're scared of are the best ones.

38:02Justin Tranter:What is that? I don't know. I think it's the underdog in me. It's the Capricorn. I don't know enough about Capricorns. Explain. It's the long route. It's the longest route possible. or it's the mountain goat that like falls so many times that by the time they get to the top, like they are like battered, which I kind of relate to. So I do always, I'm really noticing it in myself actually. Like I'm always trying to overcomplicate everything. Yeah. Which, yeah. That's why you get scared of like pop songs because not always, but for the most part, the best pop songs, at least the chorus is very simple.

38:44Justin Tranter:And we always talk about it, like, let's just repeat it. Two hearts, two hearts. How many times can we say the word two in this fucking chorus? And I think, do you know why that you're scared of that simplicity? Because even on Clubs of Your Arms, you didn't reply about it for like a week. And I was like, oh, fuck. I can't do this on this song. We can't. And then you went on vacation with your family. I played it to Harry and he was like obsessed. And I always feel like that's a very good kind of, if a straight man's like obsessed with a dance pop song. Like, wow. Wow. This is crossed over. Yeah.

39:27It was instant, the writing on Club.

39:31Justin Tranter:Yeah. Instant. And like left the session like crazy. I actually was a little bit knocked. I played it to someone who I, and they were just like, yeah, it's all right. That. Give me their name and number. Tell me afterwards. Yeah, I will, I will. So that's just, I think I probably just went, and I was really tired from traveling. I just got to Brazil and I think I was very tired. Now I've probably listened to that song a thousand times. Yeah. And it's my favorite part in the set now. Yeah. And the video, like everything. and the fact it's, you know, first, second week of June, it just, yeah, it's all, I feel like the stars have aligned for this song to come out now.

40:14Justin Tranter:What, through, now all this 10 years of co-writing, 10 years of collaborating, and now you and I have locked in and we have our favorite producers to go to and even the people that you work with in London without me, like you, what have surprised you the most about you as a co-writer, as you as collaborating? Now that you're here and you feel so confident and locked in, what is surprising you the most about the collaboration process? I still get blown away by when the entire room is locked in and it can be almost like it can happen in like 25 minutes as you like write like the best song of your life and it's incredible.

41:02Justin Tranter:It's like the best feeling. in the world. It's better than any drugs. Oh, it's high. It's better than anything. It's high as fuck. Yeah. And you leave the session and sometimes if the producer's on it, they'll send you a bounce there and then because it's just, we don't even need to figure out stuff. Let's just have it in our headphones. Yeah. And I listen on my way back to my Airbnb or whatever and it's just like, great. I will never get sick of that feeling. Yeah, it's the best feeling in the world. And then it's that classic thing, who do I send it to? That's very confusing for me. Explain that for people trying to learn about the business.

41:43Justin Tranter:Explain what you mean. When I say, who do I send it to? It's like, obviously I have a team, have great management. I have friends that always want to hear my new stuff. Usually, if it's a song that kind of blows me away instantly, I will send it to about seven people, which is always a good sign yeah so I think club I did do a big sort of like mass Jesus listen to this but it's so scary you open yourself up to like yeah it's good it's alright or like nothing anyone listening actually if a friend who's a musician or a writer you know sends you something they've painted something they've written a song they've made reply.

42:34Please reply. Please send love. Like I think you, I think you have to say you love it.

42:40Justin Tranter:Yeah. Because if they've sent it to you, they love it. Yeah. And it's probably amazing, but it might not be your taste. And I think that that's really important because if a friend is just trying to share because they're excited, meet them with excitement. If a friend says, hey, I want your thoughts. I want your help with this. That's a difference. That's different. If a friend just sends you something with exclamation points or emojis. Please just send them love, yeah. Just send them love. But if they ask you for your thoughts. Yes. Then. That's it. That's a different conversation. Yeah. That reminds me of the time, Justin, you sent a group of us a song that you wrote for Coco Melon and we were like, fucking banger.

43:20Nailed it. Seven-year-olds are going to flip. That's the energy you have to be met with.

43:26Justin Tranter:Well, I was, you know, doing this Cocomelon thing, which I'm so honored to do because it's such this beloved IP. But then like to all my friends that we all, for the most part, all met while living, being pretentious assholes in Brooklyn. I'm like, guys, I'm doing Cocomelon. I'm going to fucking text you this. This is my subconscious thoughts. I'm like, and you have to support me. See, I've made this decision. Because I've made this decision. And I also am loving, I'm having a blast doing Cocomelon. it's all about balance. I get to work with cool girls like you and then I get to like make this really cool kids musical.

44:03Justin Tranter:But it is true. It's like, if you are signing up to a friendship with an artist, whether that, like you said, painting, whatever the fuck we do, you are signing up to be a cheerleader. Yeah. Sorry. If you don't like it, block us. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to start. Yeah. I might, maybe I need to state that. Like just, I'm just sending this because I love it. Don't, no, no commentary. My friend, Caleb Heron, the comedian, who was our first guest on this podcast, he says, even when he's, it was an amazing piece of advice I learned from, so I'll repeat it here and tell it to you so you can learn too, is he said, even when he sends it to his team, he will be very direct about what he's looking for.

44:45Justin Tranter:So he'll say, I'm looking for feedback. And he's writing TV shows or a full standup, our standup set. I'm looking for feedback on just scene six or I'm just want you guys to listen to this because I'm really excited. He'll just tell even his team. Yeah, I'm going to start doing this. That really blew me away. I was like, okay, that's because then you get, if you're looking for help, you're going to get help. If you're looking for support, you're going to get what you want. And when you sent Just Be Bodies to one of your, business text threads. Yeah. You got no reply. Yeah. And I had to be like, Rose, thank God you talked to me about it.

45:31Yeah.

45:31Justin Tranter:Because I was like, I know this song is amazing and I'm not going to bullshit you because we're doing this together. So bullshitting you doesn't help me. This song is amazing. Don't, don't let that sour how special this song is. And now everybody loves the song. Oh yeah. Everyone loves it. But I've, I did, I should remind myself, because I had this even with Louder Please. They were like, I think Tectonic, I had a few people. I just sort of felt like I'd play it in a room and it would maybe not. You know, you can just feel it. You can just feel it sometimes. But that's like a fan favorite. Well, you know what?

46:11Justin Tranter:Well, let's just be honest. When I heard Tectonic, I was like, yeah, it's nice. Yeah. And then I see Tectonic live and I'm like, this is my favorite part of the set. Yeah. so it's I think things change when stuff comes out as well it takes on its own life yeah whatever it is I don't know when fans when fans get to put their claws in it it becomes a different conversation yeah and that's why it's so important as a collaborator to listen to the people you trust but also sometimes you have to go with your own gut it's your fucking face on the album cover yeah at the end of the day be a good collaborator listen from the people you put in place to talk to you about it but like Tectonic, when I see that live, it's just so special and your voice shines and you made the right choice putting it on the album because I can tell your fans love it.

46:59Justin Tranter:I watch it happen and now I love it. You know, it's really awesome. I'm kind of in that space. Well, we're in that space now with the second record. It's like, everyone's asking for track listing, you know, and I'm just like, I'm just feeling it out. I'm not quite, I don't think I'm ready yet to put the track listing together because I haven't. Well, we talked about it yesterday. And this is, I think, a great thing to bring up for anyone learning about collaboration is that I said, I know what songs must be on the album. And you said, oh, I'm the exact opposite. I know what songs are definitely not on the album.

47:31Which is like four, which is really, really hard for me.

47:33Justin Tranter:Yeah, but that's a good sign that for us to trust each other, we're looking at things without even talking about it in two very different ways, which is great. This is a question we ask everybody on the podcast. what song or it can be a video or a performance what piece of musical art did you see as a young person that ruined your life in the sense of like oh fuck now I'm I have to do what that is and now I'm gonna go on this million year journey through the worst business ever made

48:13unfinished sympathy massive attack I think you've played this for me I've like covered this song I covered this song as like a 12 year old I need to find that footage so deep I loved that song as a child and it's it's actually interestingly like more like what I'm doing now right like euphoric like deep lyrics with a woman who has a big voice. Yeah. But the production is just crazy. Yeah, my dad, my dad kind of like, my pops loves like Trip Hop, Portishead, Tricky Knot. Like I kind of grew up listening to a lot of that. And I think Beth Gibbons, who's like the lead singer of Portishead, I kind of, I think as like a 10 year old, I kind of thought that was going to be like what I would do.

49:00Justin Tranter:Cool. Weirdly, I'm like, I'm so much more pop than that, but. yeah but in a sense yeah yeah I mean it's clear that that's it is interesting though to say because I just realized that about myself of my big thing that ruined my life was the queen Debbie Gibson and learning that there was this young woman who wrote her own songs which I've said in every episode but get used to it because it's not going to change and we keep asking the same questions so I have to keep talking about it but then I went on this big theater journey and I was so obsessed with theater and now here I am a pop songwriter just like Debbie Gibson.

49:37Justin Tranter:Yeah. It's kind of, it's like that was my big moment of learning about her. I was a fan but when I learned that she wrote it all, it was, that was my big change for me. And kind of funny, right? That you, it was Massive Attack, this really cool dance pop. I need to get that lady to make her name because she was such a The singer on the song. Yeah. And then we both come back to it. Yeah. Yeah, because I went down, I did go theatre, an actress maybe, maybe I'll be an actress. No, not then, it wasn't going to happen. I did so many auditions, but it didn't happen. And then I fell accidentally into sort of like guitar, indie.

50:19I think I came off the back end of like Amy and Adele and just these British working class girls. They went to the same high school you did? Went to the same school as me, you know, from the same ends. Like I was like, oh, that should just be what I should do, you know, like that vibe. And I did do that vibe for years. And I remember just like when I started going out, I was like, this is not who I am. Like I'm not really this kind of indie neo soul girl. Like I am, I grew up on Madonna. Like I want to be Madonna. so like i switched up i still get people to this day that like might have seen me at like ronnie scotch or something when i was like really young like oh i do miss that lovely music and even my pops we've talked about it and left like he loved he loved loved when i made music like that yeah but i think he's finally like getting it now that i don't think i'm gonna go about that.

51:24Justin Tranter:Yeah, I mean, but also now that you found a way to really show off your voice in the genre you feel at home in, now I think the world is your oyster. It's like taking the vocal magic from your first try and putting it into the world that you really actually love. Yeah. We end every episode with a game called gag or drag. Gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. I don't have to explain it to you. some people don't have any gay friends so they don't know what I'm talking about who doesn't have any gay friends we cannot trust them you can figure it out yeah just watch the episode yeah okay gag or drag songs prioritizing aesthetics over emotional truth drag drag which I love to hear you say that because you are so good at aesthetics sonic aesthetics but you do want to tell a real story every time.

52:24Justin Tranter:Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's a fun story, there's still like, it's always about something that happened. There's always, yeah. I'm working on the concept thing, but I'm not yet there where I can just make up a song and kind of make it all up. It has to be on, you know, there's a lot of truth in everything I write. Which I think is why you're special. Gag or drag people becoming underground after going to one warehouse rave? Drag. Drag. Yeah, I'm not for that. Not one. Maybe like five. Yeah. And like you've moved area, you've broken up with your partner. I love that. You've changed your eyeliner. Yeah.

53:01Like, yeah, that's fine. That's fine.

53:05Justin Tranter:My best friend, Austin, who you know. I love him. He's the fucking best. He will always say he's like part of different communities because he went to one S &M party or something. I don't think one weird party in Palm Springs makes you a part of the leather community. Now, five, after you've broken up with a partner and changed your eyeliner. Yeah, then that's five. Then we can count it. Gag or drag sad lyrics over the hardest dance beat possible. Gag. Wait, there's a song of yours that I didn't write that I just realized is really sad. Party People. Party People. It's so sad. Tell me, talk to me through this because when I was watching your show on two nights ago, I was like, wait.

54:04It's really sad. Is this the saddest song ever? Basically, I've always felt a little bit like on the outside of like everyone having a lot of fun. I don't know what that is. I don't know what it is. and I have this friendship group that's like not really my group but I hang I've partied a lot with them and um I would always sort of just be watching them I'm in the club but I'm like or I'm at a rave but I'm like and they all are so connected and they they they are so like good at partying they do it really well but I don't know if I quite have that in me like it kind of can break me yeah and i will go home crying and have a terrible week um so i kind of like i've sort of watched them from afar you know they are the party people and i've always kind of wanted to like fit in with them but like not really not that they haven't like let me in but and also it's just it's just like that that feeling of being on the dance floor where you kind of feel so at one and free but like knowing that it's also not going to like last forever.

55:08Justin Tranter:Yeah. I hate that feeling. I hate knowing that it's not going to carry on. You miss the party while it's still happening. While it's at the party, yeah. Oh my God, that's, yeah. That's a song. Yeah, that is a song. That's a song. Okay, great. Oh, I love this, Morgan. Gag or drag trying to heal while still making terrible romantic decisions? Drag. Drag. Drag, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. It's kind of a rite of passage. It is. Yeah. I think that's what, like, everyone's 20s are for. Yeah. Yeah, which is why I just stopped dating, because I couldn't stop doing that. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, let me just stop dating about 12 years ago.

55:53Justin Tranter:Okay. Gag or drag, voice notes sent after the club? Gag. Gag. I mean, I'm so mad. I don't even know what I've sent. so bad I also think I equally I send voice notes after my first coffee in the morning which I think is dangerous it's a drug it's a drug and I say things sometimes not that I don't mean but that I wouldn't naturally say not on drugs yeah buy drugs but it's caffeine yeah so yeah it's embarrassing you know when you can see that people have saved them as well I'm like oh no well some people just have that that automatic setting built in yeah yeah Which always sometimes frightens me.

56:35Justin Tranter:Because if I like send a really inappropriate joke or talking mad shit and I don't know that person has automatic save on, I'm like, oh, fuck. They could ruin my career. No. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Industry people calling everything a moment. Drag. Drag. Yeah. Who's laughing over there? Is that a manager laughing? Who's laughing? Drag, drag. A moment. Although I do say moment a lot, but I can say it. You can say it. You're an artist. Gag or drag, drunk heart to hearts with strangers in the club bathroom. Gag, gag, gag. Gag. Favorite thing. Gag. Yeah. Yeah. I'm due one of those actually. Yeah.

57:24I haven't had one in a while.

57:26Justin Tranter:Well, you are performing at the Abbey tonight. Yeah. It might. Might happen tonight. It might happen. Yeah. And you can, since this episode will come out after that, you can put in the comments. Yeah, if it happens. If it happened or not. I need to just, this is something I've got to get better at. Well, not better at. It's just when you play, you can kind of be like quite like, you know, you have your green room and you're removed. So it's important that I get in there. Well, you should do it. Well, you don't want to be drunk though before the set. I was like, you do it before the set. So maybe you'll meet someone who doesn't know who you are.

57:56Yeah, that happens all the time.

57:57Justin Tranter:You can really have that heart to heart. Yeah. Yeah. Full circle moments. What do you hope that people take away when they hear clubbed your arms? Oh, wow. I think it really captures that feeling of being out in the club and craving someone and wanting that person that's at home. Maybe they're not even real. Maybe they're just you want that person to be at home or on the other side of your phone. I love that feeling of being out and kind of, it's quite cheeky. You're so like drunk and you're just like, knowing that someone wants you and that you can get them if you want. Oh, yeah. It's hot. Yeah.

58:48I love it. But it's, yeah, and the sort of the journey home kind of, you know, am I going to wake them up? What's going to happen? I love that feeling. Yeah. And I want people to kind of feel that.

59:02Justin Tranter:I agree because I think my favorite part of the song, even though the first verse and pre-chorus is so fucking magical and that's why the song exists. The second verse is - I want to wake you up to fuck. It's just so real of that idea of like, we've all been there unless you've never been drunk before. But you also could not be drunk. That's true. You just get back from a really good night and you feel yourself and you just want to wake your partner up. And she's like, come, I don't care that you've been asleep for six hours. Let's go. Yeah. I just think that second verse is so deeply human. Yeah.

59:41Justin Tranter:Of like. Kind of messy as well. It's, I think it's what you said about the song, Morgan. You loved like how glamorous it was, but also so messy. Yeah. I like when something's like a middle finger with like a pretty pink bow wrapped around it. Yeah. Like a little smear. Yeah. I love that. And she really noticed the idea that you asked for six times that finally happened, which is the song always started with a storm because we were going to call it the great storm of England. And then it ends with the birds. And then it ends with the birds waking up. The song coming up. Yeah, I did ask a lot for that.

1:00:13Justin Tranter:You asked a lot and it finally happened. It happened, yeah. And it made me so happy that like Morgan being one of the first few people to hear the song, one of the first things she's noticed. Oh, it's us because the storytelling is so good and there are so many layers And it comes not just from the lyrics, but also just, like, all the different sounds and the textures, you know? Yeah. And I think that's so cool. So I was kind of like, oh, it's so funny when you didn't want to go super simple with some, like, lyrics or moments in the song. But, like, it was already—it's so rich in every way. And it's like, I didn't even think of that as something too simple.

1:00:51It just, like, gave room to breathe, for other things to, like, stand out. That's great.

1:00:57Justin Tranter:I think that's an amazing point about all, no matter what you're writing, directing, creating, that if every part of your art is too detailed, then it can't shine. Yeah. So that really simple two hearts, two hearts repeating. Trying to make it through. That lets all the other, all of your other really detailed ideas shine. Last thing, if you were to give, someone watching this who's desperate to write songs or collaborate in any way. What piece of advice have you learned about collaborating that you wish you would have learned sooner? Wow. Okay. Which piece of advice? I think for me personally, I was a very, and like a lot of, you know, kids that like, I was so, like, I wanted it like then and there.

1:01:54and I needed it.

1:01:56Justin Tranter:Same. Whether that helped, I think now it helps having that energy. But I think when I was like 17, 18, 19, I mean, even till I would say like a couple of years ago, it was exhausting and it wasn't good for my head. And I wish that I kind of let myself just like enjoy it and grow and graft kind of maybe like a bit more quietly. like I could have done it without always like having to put like maybe I didn't need to bring out music at 19 I could have just waited a little bit I don't know if that's good advice because I think some 19 year olds 16 year olds are ready and they are making the best music of their lives but I just wish I'd kind of like sat with it and just you know I was working other jobs until like three years ago, which was fine, but I was just so hungry.

1:02:51Justin Tranter:Yeah. Which I kind of wish I just chilled a little bit. Yeah. And let it happen naturally like it has. I think my big takeaway from that is that, is the thing that I wish I would have known too, is that attention is not the goal. The goal is great art. and the great art gets you the attention. And I was so desperate for fame and attention that I, instead of writing 80 songs for my band's first album, I wrote 15 and released 12 of them. You know what I mean? I was so desperate for the attention, just like you're saying, but so desperate for that to happen so quickly that I forgot or don't even, I don't know that unless the art is as good as it possibly can be, you're never going to get the attention you want unless you just want to be on a reality show, which is not shade.

1:03:59Justin Tranter:It's just a different conversation. I love that advice. And that's really important advice. Did I articulate that correctly? Because it's very personal, but I think the like trusting that things sort of happen at the right time. And I think I pushed, I think I did know deep down that, like, I wasn't going to, you know, be up for a Brit that year because I hadn't, yeah, I'd probably not made enough songs. And I didn't, I wasn't dressing, I was dressing and I would come out in different clothes, different styles, different everything every day, every show. She was a different girl, which is so fun, but I don't think that makes sense.

1:04:39It didn't make sense for me as an artist. Yeah.

1:04:42Justin Tranter:I think it's yeah no you said it very clearly yeah yeah I think it's also if you are 19 and you're like you know you got it don't hold don't hold back yeah I think the main takeaway from what you're saying too though is or another takeaway is that because I know for me when I I would put music out and I wasn't famous overnight it would be so devastating yeah and so that's the other thing is if you're putting all of your eggs in the attention basket and you don't get the attention you want, then that's hard. I had that with early stuff on Louder Please. I found it. I remember Angel of Satisfaction came out and it didn't get put in playlists.

1:05:25It didn't get put in any playlists.

1:05:26Justin Tranter:Wow. It switched the week after. I don't know what happened. I think someone at Spotify or someone somewhere was like, Jesus, what's happened here? We need to, but that, it destroyed me. So I was like, how can a song this good? Yeah, it's a very, we kicked ass. It's a great song. Yeah, it is incredible. I love it. I think people also need to remember too that just because something might not be playlisted, no matter where you are in your career, it's not a reflection of your talent or your worth as an artist. And a lot of these decisions are made by, you know, it's to achieve a bottom line for corporations and like platforms that are driven strategically.

1:06:11Justin Tranter:And just because a song doesn't get the attention that you want on day one, doesn't mean it's not a hit. Doesn't mean it's... As we can see so many songs a year and a half later, two years later, 37 years later. Yeah. And that is... Turn into hits. That is something. Yeah. I think Angel of Satisfaction will be one that once you have your first hit, that one's going to start streaming like crazy. And also, like, I wish I could have told 20, 24, Rose, who woke up that morning, I think I stayed in bed all day, I was gutted that I would have played Angel of Satisfaction 150 times all over the world to probably maybe like over 100 ,000 people by now and more.

1:06:52Justin Tranter:And it's only going to get bigger. And it pops off. Yeah. Like, I wish I could have shown her that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, it's not about the attention, it's about the art. And if you put the focus on the attention, you're going to die. It's not great. It's not great. You're going to die. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone in between, Rose Gray! Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.