Skylar Grey + Elliott Taylor | Eminem Hits, Bubble Grunge and WASTED POTENTIAL

24:56Justin Tranter:Yeah. and he was like wait babe you recorded uh an idea on my phone the other day and I was like I did and it was just a piano riff that I had recorded on his phone he's like yeah let me text it to you so he texts me this piano riff and I was like oh actually it's pretty good

25:19and then I brought it into Pro Tools and within 15 minutes the the hook of temporary was done wow and that that and i wrote the lyric about what i was going through yeah about that feeling of this is temporary because i i do recognize that anytime i'm in that dark place i always come out of it eventually there's always a light at the end of it all but um so i wrote temporary about that like this is a temporary darkness you know wow yeah and the voice the voice note is it stayed in the track, like the actual... Oh, the piano. Piano, iPhone recording is the piano track. The piano from his phone.

26:00Wow.

26:01Justin Tranter:Yeah, that's super cool. Okay, so when you're writing these things that feel super personal, whether it's for your artist project or it's going to end up being sung by whoever, how does it feel when things that are so personal become really public? And I don't ask this in a way that lots of people ask that. I asked and it says, once I started writing songs for other people to sing, they really have not been about my life at all, for better or worse. But that's just how it's worked out for me. But it seems like so much of what you write is so personal. It always is. And then you've written so many massive songs.

26:41Justin Tranter:How does it feel when something so personal is given to literally the entire world? I don't know. I mean, I think it makes it validate my experience or my feeling that I had. And, you know, like whatever darkness I went through, I'm like, okay, I'm glad I went through it because I wouldn't have written this song. Yeah. And I wouldn't have had, you know, I think it's great. Do you, when you hear your songs out in the world, whether it's a grocery store, an Uber, whatever, does it bring you back to what you were going through that made you write it? or does it just become something else? That's a good question.

27:23I think for a period of time, it brings me back.

27:26Justin Tranter:And then after a couple of years, it's just... Yeah, then it doesn't. How does it feel to be like in the grocery store and brought back to some fucked up moment in your life? I guess it does. Now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah, it's like a nostalgic kickback. Yeah, for sure. If I hear a song of mine playing randomly, it does just take me back in time. I have a quick little flashback. Yeah. Do you like those flashbacks or is it weird? Sometimes. Depends on the flashback. If it's a good one or a good memory or a bad memory. That's a very good thing. Yeah. Depends on the song. Yeah, because I get brought back to when I wrote it.

28:06Justin Tranter:Yeah. Almost every time. I get brought back to a time period of when I wrote it. Yeah. And everything that was going on in my life and the people that I was surrounded by. Yeah. The relationships I was in. So if I was in a bad relationship when I wrote that song, I get taken back to that bad relationship. And I don't like that part. Well, you write so many of your things, at least started alone and then either bring it to him or whoever else has been in your orbit. So that in my sense, because I get brought back to the room with the people I was with. Interesting. But you write so much of your stuff.

28:41Justin Tranter:You started alone at least, right? Yeah, I don't do a lot, a ton of collaborations. Yeah. outside of my small circle. Yeah. Like I've done a lot of songwriting sessions that didn't really go anywhere. But what does come that's positive out of those songwriting sessions, even if it's not a song that day, is relationships. Yeah. And I can like kind of, you know, you can't predict who you're going to have good chemistry with. Right. It's just so random. And so some of the people that I worked with on my album, Danny Magic. Do you know Danny Magic? I know the name, but I don't know personally best.

29:21But yeah, I started working with him 10 years ago or something when he was Frankie's assistant or something.

29:29Justin Tranter:Yeah. And we just always hit it off. And so he basically, you know, co-produced my whole album. And I just like, you know, when I find people that I really have good chemistry with, I stick with them. Yeah. You know, and that's why Eminem and I also have done 20, I mean, I don't know, 15 or 20 songs together at this point. I didn't realize it was that many. I knew it was a lot, but that's crazy. Well, when you include the songs that he produced on my albums. Right. And the songs that we worked with each other on for like Slaughterhouse. Yep. If you include all of those, we've touched like the same 15 or 20 songs.

30:12Amazing.

30:12Justin Tranter:Do you guys, for both of you, can you think back to the beginning of your creative journeys? And are there things that you look back on that like make you want to cringe, but you're grateful because it led you to something better or bigger or informed your artistic journey? Oh, I am. I have so many cringy memories. yeah the sheer volume of musical theater i did same honey same i used to cringe on musical theater so hard i loved it so much as a kid and now i'm back to loving it again and embracing it like deeply because it i was real i wasn't good at it i was not a good musical theater performer at all i thought i was yeah looking back at random videos my mom has or whatever i'm like oh my god i was i looked insane oh yeah and i was trying to be bernadette peters but i was like a 14 year old homosexual it wasn't no it wasn't i think i need to see this but now i look back and i'm like thank fucking god i was such a cringy musical theater kid because lyrics are my favorite part of writing and i think musical theater whether you love it or hate it you can't deny that it's music that is story driven for sure and so i'm like thank fucking god i was a theater geek because that's why i'm so good at writing lyrics because i was so obsessed with songs that push the story forward well and and what's weird is like you know we go on so many different tours or show hop on with different people and we're traveling around everywhere and every show every tour i've ever been on i'm like looking around backstage and i'm like this is just musical theater it basically is i mean it's all showbiz it's all just musical theater out here yeah it's a trip yeah it's just we just have cooler clothes or like a different name or you know yeah better stylists and no it's i care who it is but it's a rock band that's massive whether it was let's say it was u2 or the rolling stones yeah who said oh madonna upped it for all of us that she turned pop tours, rock tours, whatever you want to call it.

32:25Justin Tranter:She turned it into theater. And now none of us can just show up and play our song. We have to do a fucking show. So the Queen Madonna turned rock and roll into theater. And I love that for us. Yeah. No, it's great. It's fun. Yeah. Are there any specific, you know, we hope this podcast is people to learn about the creative journey and grow from it. Are there any specific cringe moments for you that you learned from? I mean, I used to sing with my mom. Awesome. Like you're like a group? Yeah. Yes! We were called Generations. Yes, you were! Because Generations. Yeah, of course. Makes sense. And we used to sing songs called things like, We Are the Colors of the Rainbows.

33:15My grandma slid down the mountain. My grandpa's snoring.

33:20Justin Tranter:Yes. Like out in public. Never smoked tobacco.

33:27Yeah. These were some song titles.

33:30Justin Tranter:I had only ever written one song with a family member. It was my sister-in-law, but she lived with us for many years of my childhood because I'm the youngest of four, so my brothers are much older. So she lived with us. She was basically a sister, even though she was sister-in-law. and we wrote a song that goes a homo we go a lesbian our way I love you you love me homosexuality I was 11 which means she was like 22, 23 and she was definitely trying to let me know that it was okay that I was the but it went over my head I was just like oh we made up a funny song I mean I knew what it was about I was 11 I understood what we were singing about but did not understand how awesome she was to give me that.

34:16Yeah.

34:17Justin Tranter:And that song, I still sing it at least twice a month. Is there one of you and your mom's songs that comes to you all the time? And can you give us a preview? Oh, for sure. I mean, I don't know why they come out at the most random time. She'll just start singing it. Well, because if there's a subject that comes up in life where I'm like, oh, that reminds me of a song. I'll start singing the song that it reminds me of. I love Is This the Same Sky. Oh, but that one's so beautiful. That one's cringy, though. Yeah. That one's good. That one's good. What kind of is cringy? Well, now you have to get into it.

34:52It's the first song I ever wrote. I was eight. Love. And I was in a swimming pool in Hawaii on vacation with my mom, but my parents were divorced. And so I was in the swimming pool looking up at the moon, and I wondered if my dad could to see the same moon that I was looking at, him being back in Wisconsin. So is this the same sky that hangs over the ocean? Is it the same sky that's over Wisconsin? These are my lyrics.

35:21Justin Tranter:Pretty awesome rhyme though. Yeah. That's a pretty awesome half rhyme. Yeah. So that, you know, that's... That's a very profound thought. Yeah. For an eight-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. thing much deeper than a homo oh we go lesbian okay we ask every all of our guests this same question which is what is a song or a concert or some piece of music that ruined your life in the sense of you heard this song you saw this video and it's like oh fuck now i'm a musician forever it is this has ruined my life i must make music positive way but in the sense of like the music business is pure hell.

36:07Justin Tranter:So this piece of art ruined your life of like, now I must be a part of this shit show of business because this song was so good or this video was so special. Holy shit, that's a hard question. Because I just, I started making music so young that I don't even have memories of getting into the music industry. Yeah. Because I started when I was six performing. Wow. So I'm like, I'm trying to remember. Or it can just be the first thing that was like, oh my God, I want to write a song. It can be less negative. Just like the, I mean, I say it, songs that, something that ruined your life in a positive sense.

36:44Like for me, it was realizing when I heard that Debbie Gibson wrote her own songs as like a seven-year-old fan of her.

36:52Justin Tranter:And she was 16. And I heard there was this 16-year-old girl who wrote her own songs. And I was like, oh, fuck. This is my calling. Yeah. Got it.

37:12I have to say, for me, probably when I first heard Stan, Eminem and Dido.

37:22Justin Tranter:Wow. I heard that in the Uber last night, and I literally said, I don't think I've heard this song in 15 years. Yeah. But what I love, I just, it struck me. Wow. Where I was like, I love that combination of the soft female vocal with the hip hop and the dark storytelling. Yeah. And I think I subconsciously manifested doing that at some point. From the time I was 13. You definitely manifested that. To 10 years later when I actually got to work with him. Wow. But, you know, it was like always in there bubbling. And I was like, I'm going to do that one day. Wow. What blows my mind about that song too, is that he turned her verse into his chorus.

38:10Yeah, yeah.

38:10Justin Tranter:Because her chorus goes into those bright major chords, which is so amazing. But the fact that like, whether it was him or producer or both took her very minor dark verse and made that a chorus. Right. When I was hearing it last night, that really blew my mind. of like, wow, that's so smart. Also that that was such an important song to you. And then you ended up becoming such a part of his creative journey and each other's creative journeys. So yeah, if you're thinking about a song that like ruined my life in the best way, it's probably that one. Yeah, I love that. Do you have one? Do you have one?

38:47You know, I was sitting here thinking about it. There's a memory that jumps into my mind that I think kind of catapulted me into just falling in love with wanting to chase the dream. And I remember I was really, you know, five or six years old and I was at my, my grandparents' house and my, my grandpa was just playing Elvis just on repeat on the, on the TV. And it was these old videos and he's just doing those dance moves and just hitting the guitar and vibing. And I just remember that it just stuck with me. And I just wanted to be in that world so badly. And, um, and I think like, you know, I think that little bit of that character like stuck with me for sure.

39:32Justin Tranter:Yeah. I mean, it kind of doesn't really get better than Elvis. Yeah. No, yeah, no. Right. But I feel like it would be a good time to tell your story about how you got put up on stage when you were. Yeah. So my, um, so this is what happens when you do interviews with your partner. I mean, it's kind of what, what, what drew me into, to singing and performing. I, I was, I was like, uh, I was six or seven and my sister wanted to, to get into musical theater. And there was this, uh, theater company up where we lived in, uh, way up north of Northern California called Blasco Theater Company. Um, so my mom took her to go to the show and they brought me along with, with, of course.

40:11Justin Tranter:And I love where this is going. Keep going. Yeah. And so, So, you know, the first act goes and I'm like, I just remember being like, I want to be in this. And I wouldn't stop. So I kept pulling on my mom's shirt. And they tell this story all the time. They're like, you were just relentless. Like, I want to be in this. I want to be in this. So my mom said, fine. So she took me at intermission, took me to the director, Eddie Blasco, and was like, if you want to be in it, you ask him. And so I went up to him and I pulled on his hand and I was like, I want to be on the show. And he's like, you want to be in the show?

40:44And I said, yeah. And so he said, come with me, kid. And he just took me away from my family, brought me backstage, took me to the girls' green room and said, put them in some makeup, put them in a costume and put them on for the second act. And I just went up there and was like holding somebody's hand on stage. And then that triggered like nine years, 18 different shows. Wow. Yeah, from like Grease to How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. Who'd you play in Grease? I was Vince Fontaine for the first round because I was like eight. And then I eventually moved to Kennecke, which was, you know, the classic.

41:21Justin Tranter:Amazing. Yeah, Big River, all those. Also, just shout out theater again and how special it is. It was the best, yeah. If it wasn't for like community theater and I don't know how I would have ever made a friend. I don't know how I would have like... Honestly. It corrupted you early in a good way. Because, I mean, we were in that group and there was 18, 20-year-olds when you were like 7, 8, 9 years old. So you were learning about everything really quickly. Yeah. But it was good exposure and good exposure to different levels of music and art. And it felt like a family always. Yeah. Yeah. You know, be backstage with the crew.

42:02Justin Tranter:It was the best. You make creating art with a group of people. It was the perfect conversation for a podcast about the art of collaboration. creating art with a group of people there's no way to create a quicker emotional bond than like creating something that you're gonna put in front of an audience like release into the world if it's a song like there's no quicker way to like know if you love or hate somebody than to make art together it's really special you learn real quick it reminds me of tour too like when you're on tour living on a tour bus with people it reminds me of musical theater family Oh, completely.

42:38Justin Tranter:When we, my band opened for Lady Gaga from like 2009 to 2011, like a really long time. And the dancers in her tour became our best friends in seconds. There was just like this immediate theater bond, even though my band members were all instrumentalists, not theater kids. After two days with dancers, you would have sworn they grew up in the community there. There's really something about it. It's very similar. And you're all about to get on stage together. There's just this crazy, beautiful bond. And the pre-stage, like little rituals you do and the little gathering and the talks and the pump-ups.

43:18It's the best. Yeah, it's great.

43:20Justin Tranter:Listening to your new amazing music, the song where the wasted potential line comes from. Yeah, motivation. Motivation. I find it so awesome for you to like, I don't think I've ever heard someone write a song about that. I'm sure someone has because we've all written a million of them. But like, I've never heard that specific thing of like wasted potential. Yeah. How I just. It's a very dry. Yeah, it's a dry humor. But obviously there's a truth in it. But very honest. Right. At the same time. Like too honest. What made you go, I'm going to write a song, which is a very active thing to do about my inactivity?

44:07Justin Tranter:Right. How do you land at that conclusion? I started with the chorus. Yeah. And it just came to me when I was standing outside the vet's office waiting for my dog to get surgery. Most of my music comes to me randomly. It's not like I'm in a session. Right. So I was just standing out there, you know, kicking around in the grass. And then suddenly this like melody and lyric just came out of nowhere. You know how that happens sometimes when you're not even thinking about it. Yeah. And so that chorus kind of just happened and I didn't even think about it. Yeah. And then when I thought about it, what does this mean?

44:47What I'm saying, I was like, holy shit, I could write a whole story based on this gem that was sent to me from the muses. Yep. You know? And so then I started writing the verses to go with that chorus that I didn't technically write. It just came. You know what I mean? And so then I started writing the verses and wanted to just give more detail about like what it means to want to be super successful, but not really having the motivation to do it.

45:18Justin Tranter:I mean, I am someone who I think motivation is for sure my greatest skill. And then the talent comes second. And so someone who is so naturally, I'm just so interested because as someone who is, you're so naturally gifted. I think I like forced myself into talent through motivation. I really did. And I'm proud of that. Yeah, I really, I really like just work harder than is healthy or natural or sane. And so just listening to that song like really blew my mind in such a beautiful way of like this brilliant songwriter artist who has written such successful songs. But say maybe there could have been more.

46:05Well, I just was looking back at my life being because I just turned 40 and I was like.

46:10Justin Tranter:Welcome to your 40s. Thank you. It's really fun here. Actually, I'm enjoying it. It's a blast. I was so scared to turn 40. I was depressed about it. You feel more free and more yourself than you ever have. I feel more confident and also giving less fucks and stuff. Having more fun. Yeah. But, you know, when I was about to turn 40, I started getting a little depressed. And I was like, man, I wish I would have made it a lot farther in my career than I— Like, I thought I would have when I was younger and, like, looking into my future and chasing my dreams. I thought I'd be somewhere else, like beyond where I'm at.

46:45And so I was like thinking about it. I'm like, what went wrong? Like, what did I do wrong? And then I realized everything that went wrong was completely my fault.

46:56Justin Tranter:That is such a powerful realization. And so then I was just like, oh, fuck it. Like, is what it is. And I just wrote a song about all of the things that I basically have done wrong, like missing opportunities because I was being lazy or just like not wanting to go on tour because I want to stay home and it's nice to be home. You know, just stuff like that. So I like listed out all of that stuff and then, you know, R.I.P. to My Wasted Potential was a lyric in that and then I was like, oh, that's a great album title. Yeah. You know. It's an amazing album title. Okay, so then how does it, while writing that song and coming, thinking about all those thoughts, like how does that does wasted potential make you, what does that make you feel?

47:41Justin Tranter:Does that feel like, oh, fuck, I fucked this up? Or like, no, this is what my - No, because I have to accept it. I mean, it is what it is. Like I said, like I have to accept the fact that that's what happened. And I dropped the ball here and there. And I did do a lot of great things too. So I am proud. I mean, you did unbelievable shit and you have such a cool life. You don't live in LA. You're not doing a million sessions a day to try to like achieve something that someone else decided is a success. Like, I'm in so many ways, so jealous of your journey. I wish I could like fucking chill. You know, I think about that sometimes too, because I'm just like, I could have gone down the road.

48:16Like what, say I did have all that motivation and decided to stay in LA and do all the sessions that I hated and like push it and got to the place where I felt like the level of success that I expected or wanted when I was younger. What would that even look like?

48:33Justin Tranter:Yeah. And then I'm like looking at my life now and I'm like, I live in Napa Valley with the love of my life on a ranch. We have a vineyard. We literally like wake up and feed animals and hang out and make music in our recording studios and eat the best food in the fucking world. And like, it's honestly a dream. But it's not the dream that I had planned for myself when I was little. Right. Because I didn't even know that that was an option. Or that that reality existed out there. Yeah. So now when I think about it, I'm like, wait a second. It's actually pretty fucking good. Like what we got going on, I am super proud and stoked.

49:13I'd rather be doing that than living in, you know, L.A. But it's a common theme with people who are really talented and successful to not feel like they've like made it yet. Or to always want more, to always feel like they dropped the ball. A hundred percent. I mean, if you have that hunger, that's why you're successful or why you're pushing farther, I think it's like totally normal to be hungry all the time and to, you know, feel like you've missed out and that triggers you to want to do more and want to keep pushing. I mean, I think if you're like, I did it, then you kind of, you know, you kind of fall off.

49:46You should just, you stop. Yeah. That's why you see people with like nine number one albums, they want 10. It's like, they never feel like they can get there. And that kind of like, it's, If you can find a way to just be okay with living in that hunger, then, you know, you'll keep going.

50:02Justin Tranter:Absolutely. I love the way you phrased that. If you can find a way to be okay with living in that hunger. Yeah. I found ways to sort of reshape my hunger. Like I'm really, I want to keep having hits, but I want them to be songs that I'm deeply proud of. Yeah. Being lucky enough to co-write Chappell's Good Luck Babe and have a hit that I'm so deeply proud of. musically, emotionally, lyrically, what it means socially, has really changed of like, okay, I just don't need every random hit anymore. I want things that I can go, yeah, I fucking wrote that. Yeah. And it's, but you're right, the hunger's never going to go away.

50:40Justin Tranter:It's never, yeah. But it's like, how can I reshape the hunger to be a little bit healthier? Yeah. Or keep myself challenged? Yeah. What interested you in being, is it an AI voice companion? Is that the? Yeah, so it's a little doll. It's a - Fierce? It's a deer. It's like a baby deer. So it's a fawn. And, um, I was asked to be the voice of it. So it's basically like Siri on your iPhone, but instead of a phone, it's a little stuffed animal that talks and wiggles its ears. Um, and it's embedded with like AI. So kind of like a chat GPT or something. So you talk to it and, and you know, it has like a mind of its own basically.

51:22Justin Tranter:Wow. But it's my voice. And I thought it was just, I mean, AI in general to me, I know it's controversial as fuck. Of course. Yeah, that's why I think it's interesting. Like we have to talk about it. We have to. And I think there's obviously like needs to be laws put in place to protect people and all that stuff. And I think that that's happening. People are working on that. But I also see it as another tool, you know. For the deer, is it a deer you said? Yeah. That's so cute. For a fawn, did you like go and record a bunch of your speaking voice? Yeah. Or they just used your voice? I did 10 hours of like vocal training.

52:03So basically I would just read scripts. Wow. For 10 hours. Obviously not all at once. Right. It was like an hour a day.

52:11Justin Tranter:Wow. And then, yeah, you train the, train it. So fucking crazy. Yeah. So crazy. I just thought it was really interesting. And also just what drew me to that project specifically is like when I was a kid, I felt kind of like a loner. I didn't really feel like I could talk to anyone about anything serious. Yeah. You know, and I found even now, like I feel more free to talk to like ChatGBT than a human being sometimes. Yeah. If it's something that's like really scary to talk about. and so I think giving people this opportunity to have something to like get their feelings out and talk to something, it's a positive thing.

52:55Justin Tranter:Okay, to end every episode, we play a game called gag or drag. Gag means you love it. Like, ugh, gag, amazing. Drag means you hate it. Drag, I don't want it. Welcome to Gay Lingo 101, okay? Wait, wait, say that again. Wait, gag is you love it. Gag is you love it. Gag is you love it? Gag is love it. Yeah, and it's - It's like, I hate it? It's become, exactly, but now it's become a positive. So guys, oh, I love it. Oh my God, your outfit's so amazing. I'm gagging, yes. And you hate something, ew, drag it. It's terrible. Gag or drag, reference tracks leaking, demos leaking. Drag. Drag, yeah, for sure.

53:31Justin Tranter:Yeah, yeah. I always feel like it's always so, especially songs that you write for other people, then like the comments just get so fucking weird and nasty and fighting over who was better, the demos, like the writer or the artist. Yeah, it's a drag for me. Unless it was intentional. Sometimes we'll be like, let's leak it like a little just to give a taste or something. I mean, if you're the artist and you leak your own demo, I think that's a different. But the other way, no way. Yeah. Gag or drag being asked to write specifically for sync? That's a hard one because. It's hard. Depends what sync.

54:04It depends the sync, but I actually enjoy writing songs for film and TV. A lot because it's kind of like a fun new challenge to like write something based on a storyline.

54:17Justin Tranter:Yeah. And an emotion that needs to be getting got across. But what the drag part is about it is that most of the time you get, you put all this work into it and then it's like they don't take the song. Right. And then you have this weird. You make 75 changes. And then you have this like weird like cinematic song that like what else are you going to do with it? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because it was so specific for it. Yeah. so that's the drag part. So that's kind of like gag and drag. Yeah. I feel like you must have, your music is so naturally cinematic that I feel like songs that were released without the intention for sync have probably been synced a lot, right?

54:55I wish they were synced more.

54:57Justin Tranter:Really? Yeah. Putting it out in the universe. Yeah. Sync more Skylar Grey songs. Love it. Yeah, I mean, I've done some big movie stuff, like Venom, Aquaman. Big N titles, yeah. We did Aquaman together. Oh, wow, cool. Fast and Furious, Need for Speed. Wow. Suicide Squad. Jesus. So you're the queen of sync. Oh, yeah.

55:27Justin Tranter:That's a lot. Just so you know, that's a lot. Yeah. That's amazing. But she still wants more. Cinematic syncs are different. They're special. They're unique. Yeah. It's so different. Film sync versus like 1-800-Empire shit. You know? But all those are film sync. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm talking like commercials or like small, like a security company brand sync or something like that. Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. Okay, gag or drag artists pretending they don't have songwriters. What do you mean? Artists taking credit for songs they didn't actually write. Drag. Drag, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

56:06Justin Tranter:It's so, I think it's so odd that it only really - Yeah, and it only really happens in our business because no one is mad at Meryl Streep because she didn't write her script. No. She still acted her ass off. Right. But for some reason in the music business, it's like if you don't do it all, someone on the internet is going to be upset with you for it. Where like no one's mad that Leonardo didn't also direct the movie. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's such an odd thing. And do his own makeup. Yeah. Nobody cares. I would like to see that. Is the movie good? Is the song good? Like they don't give a shit.

56:38They don't give a shit. But who does give a shit is the people behind it Getting credit for what they actually did do

56:43Justin Tranter:Exactly and I also think too for songwriters It's really hard to advocate for ourselves If we don't get proper credit And a platform It's really hard to convince the government That we need to be paid better When everyone thinks that like so and so Didn't actually need us there Yeah Okay gag or drag And I know the answer because you talked about it already But I'm going to ask anyway Gag or drag demo vocals with bad quality being the perfect emotion. And so they're used in the final product. Oh, I mean, I don't know if that's a gag or drag type of question, but I think it's fine. Like I, a lot of times we'll use, I'll try to beat a vocal and I can't.

57:27And it's like the first one I did was just had the right emotion to it. And it is what it is. I remember I did a song called Kill For You on one of my albums that I had Eminem produce and feature on. And my original GarageBand distorted vocals ended up being some of the main chorus vocals because I tried to beat it and he was just like, it doesn't have the same character. Wow. Yeah. Well, the problem with demos is the only time you really create a demo is when you get to a point working on a song where you're like, oh, I got something. And then once you have that feeling, that emotion, you print out a balance or something and then you start sending it around then you're listening to it thinking of writing second verse or hook or bridge or whatever and then you've heard it so many times that you get so sucked into that version do you get demo-itis?

58:20Justin Tranter:for sure I'm working on an amazing animated musical right now it's been announced so I can say it it's Coco Melon the musical I don't know if you know what Coco Melon is but it's like YouTube show turned Netflix show for like two-year-olds, but the movie, it's trying to elevate everything. It's like nursery rhymes with these crazy visuals on YouTube. That's like a kid phenomenon. But now they're making a proper animated musical. And that demo experience is so interesting because it's a song that I'm used to just hearing one co-writer sing the whole song. And now I'm recording like six to 10 characters on that one song.

59:04Justin Tranter:I'm so used to hearing one person sing. Yeah, so you have to kind of break your demo-itis and pull yourself out of it. It's really challenging. It's really challenging. I'm like, well, and all the singers we have in the movie are amazing, but it's like, oh, I'm so, I've been listening to this now for seven months, if not longer. Some of the songs I've been listening to for a year with one person singing. And now all of a sudden I have to understand how to emotionally navigate 10 people singing. That's crazy. That would be so challenging. It's such a, I'm really enjoying the challenge, but it's, I'd be lying if I said it was easy.

59:37Justin Tranter:It's fucking hard. Yeah. Okay. Gag or drag labels asking for something sad, but uplifting. Yeah. Morgan wrote this question, obviously based on your music of like, do labels continue to ask you for like this? I mean, I just feel like it's not even labels. Movies do this too, where they put all this stuff in the brief that like. It's contradicting. And then you hear the song, they end up picking them like, that had nothing to do with your brief. Like, are you guys sure you know what you want? You know what I mean? That happens all the time. Every brief we have to get on the phone and like go through it with them.

1:00:18Yeah.

1:00:18Justin Tranter:Yeah, I always feel like, and I think this is actually great advice for people watching who are trying to do this amazing, insane job of like getting on the phone and trying to, people who aren't fellow musicians, like really trying to break down what is it that you're asking for me? Because music is a language. And if you don't speak our language, it's so hard. We're speaking two different languages, right? Yeah, yeah. And so I think that getting on the phone is actually amazing advice. And a lot of times they'll say something on that call that could be the hook line or that little one word that, you know, title track or whatever that you'll use.

1:00:58And then you're like, oh, I get what you're, actually now i can understand it in my language well and you know a lot of times those um directions come from people who are really talented at a lot of things as it pertains to

1:01:12Justin Tranter:morgan's background is in marketing so that's where yeah yeah and i've worked with like a lot of like conglomerates and so a lot of these uh notes for creatives come from people who are so talented a lot of things but they are not the creatives so they're giving creative directions to creative people. And I think the people who end up collaborating the best in that situation are the people who are willing to say like, okay, this is a starting point. I don't really know how to express like emotionally what we need, creatively what we need. Here's the start. But then give it to the creative people to let them take the reins and like dig out those emotions and really drive the creativity.

1:01:51And then it goes to shit when they start to micromanage. And just like helicopter parent, like the whole thing. so it's it's always funny to get those notes from those people because like at the start it's just like what and then you as the creative have to completely decipher it and break it down yeah

1:02:08Justin Tranter:like this is actually what you need yeah yeah people who don't understand the art form trying to micromanage it is really it's a struggle it's really what do you what do you do in struggling situations how do you get through it um what i do is i just say okay i'm gonna give it my best shot and then if it gets rejected, it is what it is. Move on. Don't spend too much time on it. Yeah. Because I used to slave over that shit. Really? I'd try to please everyone. Yep. And then I would spend like a month making this song perfect for whatever. I remember I did that. I wrote a song for the Cinderella movie that they had it on hold for a month and they were sending it back to me, micromanaging, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, change this, speed it up, add guitars, do this.

1:02:54And then at the end of the day, they ended up not using it. Right. And I'm like, I could have written so many songs in that time period that like would have actually done something. And now I have this crazy musical theater Cinderella song that like I am never going to use for any fucking thing else. Yeah. And I just feel like I wasted a month of my life on it. And so now I'm like, okay, I'm just going to take first thought, best thought based on whatever information I'm given. Cool. Give it the best attempt and then move on with my life. Yeah. And if they use it, great. If they don't, fuck it.

1:03:27At a certain level, you can get yourself to like a kill fee on those things, right? Yeah. But I also think like to your point, spending too much time trying to make something so like banger ready is it could be a mistake as opposed to just like let's spend 15 minutes, put that voice note on a track, put a little beat to it, put it on click and then just send it off.

1:03:48Justin Tranter:Yeah. And just see, get the gut reaction out of the gate. Because a lot of these supervisors and people, they know enough about music and they're so immersed in it that they can see the vision. Yep. Even if it's not like, you know, radio ready. Yep. So it's just like get a response quickly. And then they'll be like, yes, dive into that or no, that concept sucks. Let's move on. And I found that like the faster you respond to stuff like that and the sooner you send something in, which I'm bad at. But if I was giving advice, the sooner you send something again, the sooner you have a chance to make them fall in love with that and then they can't, everything else they hear after that point, they're like, oh, I still am going back to this one that I fell in love with first.

1:04:25Justin Tranter:Yeah, that's great advice. Yeah. That's the, when you, if they come back to something and they're like, okay, do this, do this, do this. How do you know for yourself when it's time to like, I'm not doing those changes, either you want it or you don't. How do you set those boundaries for yourself? at this point I will just be like I'm gonna hand this off to somebody else to do these changes yeah get it to a producer and let them run it yeah and let them I mean that's actually really smart advice so I don't spend more of my time on it right you wrote the heart of it I did the most yeah yep I love that obviously if there's like a lyric change or something like that of course but if it's production changes I hand it off cool to wrap it up what piece of advice about the art of collaboration or what skill about the art of collaboration do you wish you would have learned sooner that maybe you can give to somebody else to learn right now?

1:05:21I mean, for me, it's always been a struggle to collaborate with new people in the room because I'm so shy.

1:05:30And you just have to be not afraid to just fucking be stupid and say stupid shit, sing stupid lines, sing bad melodies. You have to be willing in collaboration to just like, you know, just send it.

1:05:48Justin Tranter:Yeah. It's almost like I took like an acting improv class once. And that was so good for me because it got me out of my shell in environments where I was uncomfortable. Yeah. To just like be like, I'm not afraid to come across so stupid and cringe right now. Yeah. You know? That to me, I wish I had learned earlier. Did you take that improv class just to try something or was it hoping to like enhance your musical creativity? I wanted to act. There was a time period where I was like interested in that and adding that to my, actually I did get just cast in a movie for the first time. Yeah, first movie.

1:06:28Let's go. Amazing. Yeah, but then when I started taking that class, I realized that it was just good for me in general to get more out of my shell, even in conversation with people and music and collaboration. Yeah, just being such an introvert, it was like a challenge and a really healthy thing for me to do.

1:06:57Justin Tranter:I love, I mean, obviously now you're in a movie, So the acting classes are moving towards that specific art form. But I really love the idea of pushing ourselves into other art forms, even to inform our main art form. I think that's actually probably very, it's never going to come out, but I just like started writing a book, like fiction, not like a memoir or anything, just because I wanted to do something, an art form that wasn't a job. Just like have fun at something else. And I find it already informing my songwriting. For sure. Yeah. I think when I first started going into a bunch of sessions, I remember just like the kind of standard play was everybody would meet up at the studio.

1:07:37You walk into the studio and it's like kind of dark and everybody's like, hi, hi, hey, what's up? And everybody's trying to play cool and shit. And then it's like, who's going to pick up the instrument first or who's going to play some stuff. And I think it's just like, so like cold going into that, that way. And so I like to just try and do something completely not music related first. So like when we have people come up to like work with us at the ranch, we'll just like, we'll go like, hey, like, let's just go ride some ATVs. Let's go kick it for a minute. Go, you know, go shoot some guns at the shooting range.

1:08:09Like do something different. Play with some animals, you know, just learn about each other and kick it. Yeah. And just and that'll start to warm each other up and start talking about things you love, songs you love, other stuff. and then start talking about the project outside of the studio. And then let's roll in. At that point, you're warmed up. You all kind of know each other. You're homies at that point. And it allows you to kind of break down those walls.

1:08:31Justin Tranter:I feel like your positivity must be such a... He's the best icebreaker for me. That's another thing because he's more extroverted than me way more. And he's so positive and so friendly. And I've learned a lot from him in that regard. I've become way friendlier since knowing him. No, we're a balance. She's like, you know, when you see those storm clouds and then the rays coming through. He's the rays of light. I'm the storm cloud. But we work together. But I like to bring him to every session I do now because he is such a great icebreaker and he makes everybody feel comfortable, including me in the room, you know?

1:09:07Yeah.

1:09:08Justin Tranter:No, I think positivity is such an important part of getting a piece of art across the finish line. someone has to cheerlead and because people in this industry artists they were so sensitive right and we always need like to know if what we're doing is good like somebody needs to be like that's fucking great because if nobody's saying that in the room you're like does this suck you know like do I suck you're always like thinking about it and he's so positive he's like yeah fuck yeah that's great and he's pumping everybody up and I need that yeah and I say I play that role but I actually mean it Yeah, no, I keep it real.

1:09:51Justin Tranter:I'm like, no, no, no, let's run it again. I love to get excited. I think it's so fun. But even with stuff that's good, a lot of times people don't say that it's good. They don't speak up. And so then you're just questioning it the whole time. Well, we invented this thing called Moment Awards where, you know, because it's like everybody works towards like a Grammy or like a diamond or like you're all working towards these like awards that other people give you. But the best fucking moment is when, And it could be just a freestyle riff or chord progression with a melody. Or a line, a lyric. You know when it happens when you're like, oh, we got it.

1:10:25Yep. And it's not even done. It's not even produced out. It's not even written. It's not even, the line might not even be there, but you're like, we fucking got it. And when you take off running down the house or like sliding up, and you just know, and at that moment, we're like, that's, we won. We already won. Yeah. And you take that mindset. And so we used to like, we don't really do this anymore, but we say it. But we used to like, anytime there was like a moment like that, we would write it down on a little post-it. Yeah. Put it on the wall. The moment when we came up with the line, X, Y, and Z, that was a moment award.

1:10:53We got this high from that moment. And you could fill your house with moment awards, bro. You're balling.

1:10:58Justin Tranter:I love that. That's definitely the best way to end the episode. That is great fucking advice. Celebrate the moment. Celebrate those little moments. The creative moment. That's the award that really matters. Well, it's a chain reaction. So if you're celebrating small wins, the universe is like, oh, you're winning, So let me just keep feeding you bigger wins and different wins. And it just triggers. And you're feeding yourself towards the bigger win because you're celebrating the little vibration. And also, but a creative win is actually a huge win. That's the biggest one. Because that's why we do it.

1:11:28Right. There's no fucking chart if you don't get that creative moment award.

1:11:33Justin Tranter:I love it. Amazing. Thank you both. Thank you. So, so much. Thanks for having us. Much love. Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there. I love it, I love it.