Solo Session with Ink | From Street Performer to writing Beyonce's “16 Carriages” and performing at Stagecoach

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1:07Hello, everybody. Welcome to... I wanted to create... I wanted to create a podcast, conversations about the art of collaboration. And so much of collaboration goes unsung. no one knows how it really happens so that's why we're calling the podcast Unfamous because the world sees the famous part is the finished product but the collaboration that creates the product is where actually all of the beauty and the struggle and the magic is so this is Unfamous conversations about collaboration and you and I have written songs together we have collaborated One of my favorites to collab with. Say it again, a little bit louder.

1:59One of my favorites to collab with. You know what I mean? So in case someone listening to this or watching this isn't a songwriter geek, can you do me a quick favor and brag about yourself? Let people know. I know you'll have no problem doing this. Hey, period. Well, let me run down my resume because y 'all stop playing with me, period. Been doing this. Been, been, been doing this. You know, been putting the paint where it ain't, you know what I mean? Doing what they can't. Never needed a pen. Let's get that understood. You know, your favorites from, you know, Chris Brown, Justin Bieber, Beyonce, J-Lo, Kendrick, Lucci, Rick Ross.

2:47An icon. I just lose, you know, I just, just the greats of music. You know what I mean? I mean, the people that are excited about music, like we're excited about music. Yeah. You know, everybody from indie artists to, you know, to the vibes. You know what I mean? When you are writing for somebody else, because you've just started an amazing artist project that I - I did drop an EP. Absolutely love the EP. It's unbelievable. Thank you. And as someone, I was in a band for a decade and had four record deals. You are. So I've also experienced both sides. of making music, whether it's music that someone else is going to sing or music that you're going to sing.

3:28Right. When you, what is different in your brain, in your process, when you're like, no, this one is for me and this one is for somebody else? How did those two things get approached differently? I learned a long time ago, for me, I just don't approach. Because every time I try to approach some shit, some shit just, it just, you know what I mean, it approaches back. so I'm gonna just open up my mind and just be like you know what everything I'm doing is for me oh everything I'm doing for me you might want it but it's still for me you know I mean because if it's for me it's gonna be coming from the most purest authentic unforced place it ain't nothing worse than sitting in a room trying to force some shit to come out right you know what I mean even if it's a song that someone someone else ends up doing that's all for me it's for me yep you know what I mean?

4:18Because I also think if I'm the artist, if I'm just getting a bunch of songs that just sound like me. People trying to be you. Right. It's like, girl, like, what if I want to be somebody else? Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? What if I want to go to a new era, unlock a new era in sound? Michael Jackson said he never made the same song twice. And that for me was a word that I wanted to keep reading. Yeah. So yeah, I just feel like I'm just making it for me. My authentic vibe, like however I'm feeling, you know what I mean? And, and from that place we can decide, okay, is it a skip, a uno, a draw two, whatever it is.

4:53You know what I mean? Like then we can come from that place. Like I'll have it in the back of my mind. Of course, it's like, okay, we in here to do X, X, X. Okay, cool. Great. Let's read the thing. Let's see what they like. Okay, great. Then erase it and then come from the place. Yep. Yeah. How do you feel with, you've had some amazing success the last couple of years, whether it's unbelievable Beyonce song I mean 16 Carriages is one of my favorite songs 16 don't get me started or obviously Luther couldn't be fucking bigger couldn't be bigger if you paid it to be with this unbelievable success that you've had the last couple years have you felt your creative process change do you feel a freedom or do you feel I've talked to a lot of writers who once they have a couple of hits, they get scared or how are how is this changing the way not you as a person?

5:52How is it changing the way that you create if it is at all? Yeah, it actually it actually has. Like, I mean, yeah, I mean, don't get it fucked up. Like, of course, I've had amazing success, but I've also had amazing failures. Same. I still do. I spent a long time of failing. You know what I mean? But that is just how we get to this part. Yeah. And that is how we stay in a grounded place. Yeah. You know what I mean? But for me, like, yeah, my process for show changes. I think learning me, I'm learning my process as I go. You know what I mean? Because it's like I never just sat down and was like, okay, this is my process.

6:30This is how I'm going to do it. It just depends on how I'm waking up. You know what I mean? And my process is an evolving thing. so like after making these type of hits and these songs and he's like with these artists i'm learning so much from the artists bro it's just like too exciting for me like you know i mean like i'm like oh this how you doing it okay bet like i can let me take my part put it in there with you and then she'll come in like but real this is what i hear we adding this like and it's honestly like the geniusness of these people's brains yeah it's really i don't think people understand like what's the level what's the geniusness that's in these artists these artists that we get to work with brains not everybody y 'all ain't got it let's be for real but you know the level i'm talking about is there a moment with an artist of that level of that genius level can you is there a moment that you can remember where you're like oh fuck i need to start working i'm gonna steal that and work like use that for when i go and work yeah not steal their but yeah like Like, seal their process.

7:30Yeah. Yeah, like, I be taking shit all the time and be like, you know, I'm going to start doing that. Like, Kendrick, I just, like, this man is such a master of his crap. It's just, like, scary. You know what I mean? It's just like, I ain't even got to do nothing. Me and her vibe and drinking water, eating berries. You know what I mean? It's just like, I'm just like, baby, we, you know what I mean? So waters and berries, that's the process. Waters and berries. And it's just like, because it's like, I'm really a fan, so I get to watch the process. And I feel like I have the greatest ticket to just seeing the process of somebody that I've just like always respected.

8:02And it's just like how. Songwriters, songwriters. I go fast. He go. He take his time. Like, like he is like, no, we need to become the thought. And like, like, it's just like how like he'll dissect everything, every certain thing. and I just never even thought to like spend that type of time on something that comes out of my brain so fast. Right. You know what I mean? And so for him, he's like, no, it came out fast, but now we have to even spend more time, you know what I mean, to bring this continuation of a story. You know what I mean? So it's just like, I'm just like, oh, okay, I get it. Okay, so my ADHD be like, okay, we did this.

8:44Like, let's move on. Like, I'm working on a song. What are we doing? Yeah. they're like no okay yeah that's fine we just made that like bring that back up bring the other thing back up yeah and then also just not being married to things like i'm a marrier you know what i mean like when i do something figuratively i'm married to it he'd be like we did this delete it erase it start over something new is birth this episode is brought to you by state farm listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling smart move Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto.

9:24Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. And then he may go back to it and never do it again, or we may be like, ooh, something about this is just, we got to bring this back up. But it just allows me to like, wow, I'm learning the process of being detached from the art so that it could attach itself however it feels to the form that, you know what I mean, needs to be expressed at the time. Yeah.

9:54And I'm just like. So now do you find yourself when you're. I'm still in that. I'm actually going to spend more time. And I'm going back because I don't like to go back in on work a song. Right. Like after I do it, I feel like, oh, OK, cool. Like, but it's actually the art. And that's why he's an artist. Go back in and perfect it. make it you know what I mean and I'm like okay let me just spend more time on this particular composition do you find yourself doing that when you're not with him yes I do I be like and it works out like I'm really like damn I feel like a real like writer so much of what we do sometimes you write the best song in your life of your life in 20 minutes but then sometimes certain things need two months to be right and i think it is hard to like know when is something it happened in 20 minutes and it's perfect don't fucking touch it right or when does something need and that's that's that's where producers and having a great producer comes in and says okay like what if we reimagine this and that's why collaboration is so important you know i mean like it's way more fun to work with like minds who don't think like you think yeah You know what I mean?

11:12And then you just get something absolutely amazing that you would have never even thought of. Like, we would have been in the studio with you and you'd just be doing shit. I'm like, I would have never thought of that. Yeah. And you just throwing it out there like, yeah, girl. Well, but Sam, when you freestyle melodies, I've never freestyled a melody in my life and I never fucking will. Because that is a level of, I'm pretty brave jumping on, to explain to someone who doesn't know what this means. Break it down for me, Ink Style. Tell them what an Ink Style is. Some writers, like, I'll, like, hum something to myself and when I feel like it's good enough to share with the room, I'll share it and then we massage it or I'll have a lyric and blah, blah, blah, and I'll present it.

11:49What Ink does that not a lot of people do successfully, Ink a lot of times will just like, once we have chords going that we like, a little bit of track, you just get on the mic, which means like she goes into the booth and then the track and her mic is running live in the studio that we're all hearing very loudly. and has the bravery to just start singing whatever might come out of your mouth, which is a level of bravery that I cannot imagine. Because you're just in a... No, I love it. That's her. She's just singing 24-7. Yeah. But that's, you know what? Because when I'm hearing the music or when I'm hearing a sound, it just inspires something.

12:37So I'm like, okay, what is the first thing? Cause you know how like you can hear some shit and you can start freestyle. And then when I do it, it's like, I'm not going to remember that. So I like to just do it. Press fucking record. God, let's go. Because honestly, like when it's a music or it's piano or keys, it's already a story and a song in the music. Yeah. So it's just like, I'm just here to open up the channel and to let it flow. Cause it's already there and to just see what's there. But then it's like I do that and I can do an ink style for, I think the longest one I did was for like 45 minutes.

13:10Oh, because you see that. Just straight going. When I co-write with people who freestyle for two, I stop that shit. I'm like, you get. You're like, I miss my brain. It's bad. You get three times through. You get, which is maybe like six minutes. And that's actually my go through. I do. That's like. Because I've worked people. After 45 minutes, I can't tell what's good anymore. Right. Right. Can you freestyle for 45 minutes? Can you go back and listen to that 45 minutes and tell what's good? I don't know. I've never listened to the whole thing. But I'll be like, hey, find that part where this happened.

13:45And I'll be looking at the engineer like, I hope you lock it in on this so you can go back and find the shit. You know what I mean? But I love what you do is like you'll sit there and write and it'll be. And I'm just like, and I'm just like, wow, this Justin's a real. He's a real songwriter. like thank you play with somebody else that's very sweet yeah so I love it my team was like girl how many times you gonna go in with your I was like yep but it's bad they live when it works it works it's like it's and you're also just such so much of what we do yes we have to write great songs if the songs suck it doesn't matter but we're also both a pretty good hang in the room in very different ways.

14:30We bring different vibes to the room, but we bring pretty, your vibe is pretty unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite story of you that people that work with me and people that work at my studio tell all the time. I'm screaming. Is, you are famously tardy. tardy. I'm telling you, she is so good now. I was here early today. I'll wait. For this, you are time. For sessions, you are famously tardy. Yeah, I am. So there was a session that was supposed to start at one, and it got moved back to two. The message, however, it was not relayed to you that it got moved back to two o 'clock. Right. Someone didn't tell you that.

15:26So when you got there at 1.45, no one was there yet. And I wasn't even there yet. It was in my studio, but it didn't start until two, so I wasn't there. So you walk in, Amber, our iconic studio manager, was like, oh, yeah, you just walk right back into the studio. Right. And when you realize no one's there, you come back out and go, hey, where is everybody? And Amber's like, oh, the session doesn't start until two. And you go, okay, cool, peace. I'm going to go get some food. No. Because you had 15 minutes. Right. Because I had time. You were early on accident. And so then you still came back at three an hour.

16:08An hour late. Never let her go to a second. See, that's how crazy. Like, it's like when you think you've got time, it actually ends up taking more time. But the point I'm trying to get to is then when you did come back at three. Hey, it's Christy from Lululemon. I'm here at the office and we just dropped some really fun new summer colors in the Flow Y styles. If you're like me, you've loved the Flow Y tank and bra for years. And as of this year, it also comes in a dress and a crop tank. These are made in our buttery soft Nulu fabric. And my favorite part is the built-in bra. It makes it super easy to wear for yoga or honestly as an everyday basic.

16:43You can find Flow Y styles in store or online at lululemon.com. you walk in the room you're so kind you're so joyful and then you get on the mic and freestyle the greatest melody we've ever heard so then it's like it's part of your lore like even when you walk into the room as not the artist because you are the artist you do have your own project but when you're walking in the room to write with and for other people you still have this rock star aura that is quite effective. And when you know, I feel like you must know that it's effective. Do you know that it's effective? I mean, people keep calling me back.

17:26So the sessions, I'd be late to be like, girl, you know what I mean? And at one point I was like, girl, if it's just like, if I'm on time, it's not going to be a vibe. You know what I mean? So that was my question. I was going to ask, are you aware of this vibe? I am aware of this vibe. My team never lets me forget it uh but for real though like real talk i will say this session i was early for the one session i was early for i got there i was the first one there besides the entry here nobody's here yet so i just like okay well you know let me just pick up the guitar and figure out started playing then everybody gets there um my producer dave gets there and he's like you're here early like this is crazy and I was like yeah I was playing a song he was like what is that that's it and it was 16 carriages no so well so I think we need to rethink your process maybe you need to be early now I tried it again and everything it was like not it it was like yeah it wasn't so it was just a one time fluke it might have been a one time fluke it was a one time fluke what that was our first session with Beyonce no yeah the very first like she didn't she was just like Yeah, I wanted more challenging songwriters.

18:44And so she was just like, bring in ink. Wait, can you, if we can't tell the story, we can cut it out. But I'm going to ask you, because you told me this, that you met her at a Grammy brunch or something. Yeah. And the first thing you said to her. What did I say? You said, I'm going to write your next album. That's right. I said, I walked up to this girl. I'm like, girl, I'm tired of going back and forth with you. I'm finna write your whole next album. And she thought I was so unhinged that she started laughing. She was like, girl, what's your name? I was like, girl, my name is I-N-K. I put the paint where they do with these other niggas can't.

19:25She loved it because, you know, she a real one. She from Texas, you know what I mean? So she from the South, so she's really like, you know, Miss Girl for real. So I think people just like so intimidated by her that they don't really just be they self. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I was like, because the week before that, I had seen her and she had like was going into the VIP section or whatever and I was just standing at the edge or whatever. So she kind of like walked up and was like, hi. And I didn't say nothing because at first I thought it was Ashanti because she had the like micro brave vibe.

19:53So I'm like, girl, Ashanti is up in here and then she get closer. And I'm like, oh, so I'm freeze up. Like, bro, I ain't never froze. Like for real. Wrist might be frozen, but I ain't never froze in my life. Right. So I'm like, I'm telling, I'm telling my homies like, bro, I'm just sitting in my stomach, bro. I just met B. Like, she said hey to me. She walked right to me. And I didn't even say nothing. But we was in the club. You know what I mean? It was like, but still, like, I was still popping in. So then the same thing happened fast forward a week at the Rock Nation brunch. And I had really, I didn't even get invited.

20:30For real. Like, I used to just pull up. Like, I'm working my set. Oh, yeah, baby. One thing about me, I don't need an invite to get in. Like, you know what I mean? I'm going to invite myself. because I'm like, if you know that you're supposed to be somewhere, what do you need an invite for? Wow. You know what I mean? Because they might not know. The coordinator is not outside in the world. You know what I mean? The coordinator is at the desk. How does she know the real vibe that's supposed to be there? You know what I mean? Like she going to go with a general list. Okay, cool. But, girl, that's general.

20:58Like I'm coming with an un-general vibe. So I get it. And then I see, like, I'm out there. I got five people with me, bruh. No. I swear to God. You rolled up with five people? Yes. No one's invited. No one's invited, bro. And so I see my homie. They're like, how are you finna do this? I'm like, I don't know, bro. I see my homie, Mike on the cart. Man, shut up. Mike brings my arm. I know him from the A, bro. He working it. And he's like, what you doing? I'm like, bro, I'm out here. I'm trying to get in. He was like, all right, cool. Who you with? I was like, I got five people. Five people. He was like, he's like, come on.

21:30You know what I mean? And that's the type of people that have always made my life possible. Wow. You know what I mean? It's like the person that leaves the door cracked for you. Like the person that knows, you know what I mean, you're a vibe and that you deserve, you know what I mean, to walk in these places and unapologetically. And it's always been that type of person. And so I went up in there and I was like, today I make an account because when I got there, Shadi wasn't even there yet. So I'm already super late. But I'm like, well, the queen is later than me. So it's perfect timing. It's divine timing.

21:59I always believe in divine alignment. So when I seen her walking towards me doing the same exact thing that happened in that club, like walking straight towards me, I was like, this is it. Like, I got to just keep it all the way, Inc. And so I was just like, what's up? And then she turned to Big John. She was like, she said her name, Inc. Like, you know her? And at this time, me and Big John hadn't even met yet. But we were talking about doing stuff and working on the deal and all this. He was like, actually, yeah, I know Inc. This is. And so he was like, OK, get her info. Let's make sure we tap in.

22:28They never tapped in. Wow. But the universe did it for us, you know what I mean? And I met her, her A &Rs, Mariel. Super dope. Like, that's my dog. Mariel and Ricky. And I was with Ricky Reed just brought me to the studio because we were working on a song for another idea. And they saw me and they were like, yo, your vibe is crazy. Like, what? You know what I mean? Wow. So, yeah. Unfamous. Unfamous. Uninvited. Uninvited. Unfor real. Is there a melody or lyric or just anything that you've written that you would say you're the most proud of? Can you like single out? Yes, I did this one melody. It's like.

23:18You heard it? I mean. Little Mermaid. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. She got that for me before she was under the seat. She was with me. it's like nah uh i wish i came up with uh like that right there that's a bar i was like i don't know i don't know how to bring this to you that's not your melody ariel um nah but before ariel it was um before ariel stole from you right yeah girl wow that is a crazy question like how y 'all be coming up with this like one melody one melody one moment not even a song like one moment that you can go, I did that. Nobody else could have done it. That is me.

24:01Oh, well, you talking to the melody master. So, you know, it's just so many melodies. My mind is a melody. That's true. I can confirm that. I like to say when I first, when I took my first breath out of my mama's womb, it was, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh. You know what I mean? Like, that first baby's cry, like, that was a melody. That was a moment for me. Another melody that

24:32I did this song, bruh With a Lil Nas X And it was called Star Walking I love that song Let me tell you the story about Star Walking Fucking tell it Okay, I get a call They're like, we need to go to the studio They got this song, Lil Nas and his team They've been trying to get this song for like a very long time, like a crazy amount of time, like over six months. They've been specifically bringing in. They named so many writers, so many people they brought into this. I'm like, damn, I'm the last call. Thank you. Y 'all got a bit, you know what I mean? So at this point, they're like, it's our last hope.

25:15I'm just going there. I'm like, all right, cool. Of course, you know what I mean? I'm two hours late, so I know it's going to be a vibe. So I go in there, do it. I go in there, do the freestyle, you know, do the ink style. I'm singing like two takes and the circuit is like, that's it. And everybody's like, that's the melody we missing. And then that's how we literally finished Starwalking. And it was just that melody. And it just, I was like, oh, wow, thank y 'all. You know what I mean? And that for me was like, wow, it was a great feeling as a songwriter. Because I'm like, okay, bet. Like when you just come in and add the value to a room that's already great.

25:51Yeah. To a song that's already great. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because he already had the song. He just needed that part, that melody. So, yeah, I was like, okay, bet. And that melody stuck and went to League of Legends or whatever. But, yeah. I mean, that song's amazing. I was like, okay, that was the moment. I was like, let's do it again. Is there a time when a song that you wrote went to someone or somewhere way different than you expected it to? whether it's production whether it's a different artist whether it's is there one of those moments like that was not what the song was supposed to be but thank God that's what happened that's crazy I did one the other day and I was talking to Martin Garrickson he's like he does EDM of course and first of all he's crazy he like opened my world when I was just sitting with him listening to music I'm like wow you're not human but he told me he does all his songs on guitar because he was asking me about because I was playing him acoustic vibes and so I was like wow I like that process Even if it starts on the guitar, try to add some music to it and finish the production and take it somewhere else.

26:56So one of the songs that I'm working on releasing is definitely like that vibe. Cool. And also working with Dave, like he just take any little droplet and just turn it into the craziest production ever. Yeah, so one of them, shout out to Khaled. He putting his touch on right now. So it's definitely, I didn't expect it, but I expect the unexpected. it yeah on a daily that's my mantra i mean i think that it's kind of like when it comes to collaborating it's someone is going to write something suggest something produce something that you were not expecting yeah and if you're not open to that why even collaborate right right it's almost like if you can expect it i don't want it yeah i mean i love that like because it's like that's the whole magic and you don't know you know like we do our exercises is when we're like, okay, follow a melody, follow a melody.

27:51And in your brain, you're already thinking like, okay, go to the next note that I won't expect. Because there's already a note there that you want to do, but then it's like, switch it up. Yeah. Just so you go where it's unexpected. Yeah. Do you ever feel like this is a super geeky music songwriter question, but hopefully someone listening and watching is into it. When you're freestyling melodies with tune running, has tune has auto tune ever selected a note that you weren't thinking of that you thought was amazing like did the technology lead you somewhere that your brain wasn't but you ended up loving it first of all i love auto tune same like i live for some auto tune i don't give a damn i i recorded the other day with no auto tune and i thought i was in the 60s and i actually and i loved the song Yeah.