Trixie + Fena | If The Wig Stays On, The Zipper Closes + No One Cries, It's No Accident. It's Fena.

12:59Justin Tranter:One of the greatest internet shows of all time. Rest in peace. They really did a good job. But thank you for being modest. But of course we know what that show is.

13:07Trixie Mattel:You have to admit, for us, I don't know about you, for me, it's the most long it was a long time ago now and super low budget we did in a basement with three of us four of us in the room the camera people camera person Fina and me and Katya so when I say like do you know about this it's because I didn't think we were making MSNBC like it was the thing that everybody like started to recognize you for besides Drag Race like people started to recognize that more than Drag Race I mean thanks

13:36Justin Tranter:living is literally a tradition that me and my niece watched that Thanksgiving episode every Thanksgiving. It's like an actual... But to think that it was just four of you in a basement is crazy. And honestly, sometimes it was three and a half. Sometimes it was two. Sometimes it was like... That's the thing.

13:57Trixie Mattel:For the first few years, it was just me and Katya. Then we start... When I moved in with Katya to L.A., we lived together for a year. The first year, it was incredible. Yeah. incredible yeah I'll use that word over by Runyon yes and she had she went on a tour for like two weeks she's like hey I have all these wigs laying out if you want to do something with them because I always did my own hair in drag so she came back and they were all styled in these like big crazy styles and she's like holy shit alright we're bringing you in so that's when I had like free range to kind of that's where all of like the hair hand that's when Katja's hair started to get I did all of the like you know she kind of was like I want updos but do whatever.

14:37So that's when it got crazy and, you know, and then getting to work with this one, who's literally the easiest person to assist behind the scenes. Cause there's like, they have three expressions on their face and you just have to make sure the black eyeliner isn't crazy.

14:51Trixie Mattel:That is so true. It's like making sure a billboard looks okay in the rain. That's all it is. Literally, literally. And it's just so fun. And we laughed the whole time. Yeah. Every episode laughing. It's. So we did that. And then that's how she and I got more rapport. and then we went on tour together and then Katu went on her own tour so then I lost Fina for a while. So then I started working with Brandon. But Fina now basically, anytime I'm in drag for something important, Fina's usually there doing the hair, the makeup, helping getting costume. I like to do my own makeup and then Fina will keep it.

15:23Trixie Mattel:I'm like the docent. Keep it going. I like, I will keep like, you know, remembering Ghostbusters when she's like redoing the painting. Like that's me. Like behind the scenes. If something cracks or fades, I'm like, yeah. I'm intensely like there's a monitor back there that I'm watching in for like a few key elements but I'm also taking out my phone and zooming in on the face because sometimes that monitors they're not built for like makeup Video Village you know we're this big and so Fina will come up like in our faces with like a little headlamp and get in there sometimes she'll be like I can't help you you're good

16:01Justin Tranter:for you like as that person that is there to like elevate and support. Like for me, once I realized that that was like one of my superpowers, it was such like this cool freeing thing because in that moment, in my band days, it was all about me. What do I want? What do I think? How do I pull this off? And when I went to write with other people, it was such this like breakthrough moment for me of like, oh, how cool. Everything I learned on stage, everything I learned touring, everything I learned, and I can now help someone else do it. Did you ever have a moment where you were like, oh, wait, this is more freeing or the difference or any, if you could just describe that part of the job and the collaboration.

16:44Oh, yeah. I mean, it was almost right away. I distinctly remember when Trixie and Katia's show happened and the first episode aired and my name came across the, like, I took a picture of it on my phone. I sent it to my whole family. I was like, this is insane. Things that like, you know, I've been doing drag since before Drag Race, since before it was famous when like my idols were Jackie Beat and Lady Bunny. I was like, that's what I aspire to be. It was like a working queen. And there was no other aspirations because we didn't think that it could go that far. So when it does and you have that moment, it was like, holy crap, this is something that this is where I'm meant to be.

17:26Yeah. You know, because I had performed in cabaret shows and I still love it and I still love doing it. but now I can actually step back and take all the things because you guys have to understand I was in special ed my entire life always told I would never be anything always told um oh he'll end up in prison he'll end up on the street like I'm talking like crazy like wow yeah like never thought I would end up anything didn't graduate high school don't have my GED didn't go to college was essentially like, you know, kind of forgotten in that sense. So to actually come full circle and feel like I fucking accomplished something and this is like huge was my aha.

18:11Wow. This is where we're meant to be. Yep. Let's take all, see, she gets it. She agrees with you. Exactly. She's like, that was long.

18:19Trixie Mattel:She's like, that was emotional. I have to turn around. But also with the Dragoon stuff, like, okay, let's say you're on a TV show and they give you a union hair person, no. If they give you a union makeup person, no. Like when you're in drag, you need another person who has driven the bus of being in drag. Yes. Who understands like, how are your toes? Are they scrunched? You're, oh, we need, we need to, I need to get between your legs and re-hook an eye your girdle. Literally. We need to fix a zipper in real time. There's just A, not people who can do all of that. And B, they're not even like allowed to do that on set.

18:55Trixie Mattel:They're not allowed to touch hair and makeup and like all that. So when you bring another, your own personal assistant who can do everything. If something happened to me, she could probably do basically everything. Right. And she has. Yeah. And like, you know, you could be in stranded somewhere and just, let's say you lost the makeup kit. You don't have time to go out and do it yourself or you've lost this or whatever. You have someone that knows exactly the everything ins and outs of it that can essentially recreate it. Like if something happened to my makeup bag, she could go to like a CVS or Sephora and get everything I need in one trip.

19:28We carry a sewing machine with us across the country on a tour bus. We've got sewing machines.

19:31Trixie Mattel:Because apparently I'm so big and the zippers are so stressed. But that's another thing. Like when she's made outfits for me, she makes outfits even. She made a lot of Kachi's outfits, my outfits. Because she works on, I like to watch the Netflix show. And she worked on, I mean, everything Kachi and I have ever done together where somebody had money to give us. She's been there, basically. And the more someone sees you for years, the more they're the only one in the room you trust when you're like, does this look okay? Right. Because they've seen you look good and bad.

19:59Justin Tranter:And you also, like, you have the confidence in your relationship with Trixie and Katya that if you say, no, it looks bad, you know they're not going to hate you. I think a lot of times people in our positions, the collaborator who's behind the scenes, if you don't have the rapport and, like, the deep collaborative relationship, you're afraid to be like, hey, that's bad. because you don't want to lose the job. Right. But it's like, no, like, No, this is also your name on it. Your name is on it. Like, our names are on this. Like, if she goes out there and the hair looks crappy, my name is on that.

20:32People are going to be, people in the comments will be like, what the F, you know? Like, what did you do to her?

20:36Justin Tranter:Bands now look at fucking credits more than they ever have because on the internet, you can have access to everything. I mean, I get death threats on the internet every three weeks because they don't like the bridge to a song I wrote.

20:48Trixie Mattel:That's how she is. She does that to everybody. It's not just you. It's not just you. But also, you know what else I like about working with Fina? Like, Fina is kind of like, I hate to say this, but I've been doing drag, I don't know, 15 years now or something, 17, 18 years, and I feel old school drag. So Fina is also, I guess, we're all drag queens now, I guess. Yeah. Right? Because everybody's 21 when they're doing drag. And most people have the good sense to leave, not us. You know what I mean? Well, I kind of did. Kind of. My drag is like, I mean, I think in the past year, I've performed maybe like a couple handfuls of times.

21:24You were at one of those appearances. And it's like I get to pick and choose when I do it now.

21:29Trixie Mattel:Which was amazing, by the way. She's so much better than everyone. I just went to see her, what, last month at Precinct? And she's so much better than everyone in the show that it's almost awkward. The looks, the hair, the costumes, she makes all of them. Also, when you've been doing drag as long as you have, the ability to like have your lip sync and all that on autopilot and be able to create interactive moments with the audience play with the song for me it's like it's like Cher going out and doing her greatest hits you know at this point she's like she's there just having fun with the crowd yeah we're just happy she's still the Wanda Jackson of drag yeah you know just still with us but when somebody's been doing drag this long Fina in some ways it's a grounding presence because if something is like heightened and crazy or feels really Hollywood and weird, Fina's always the first one who's like, girl, who fucking cares?

22:18I like to have a calm. Yeah. I like to bring a calm. She does. I'm not a drama stress person. I'm not a...

22:24Justin Tranter:Yeah. They know if I have like a look in my eye, that means something's really off. But like, I'm like a chill. I'm not, I don't get starstruck around people unless it's Pedro Pascal because... That's fair. The Amanda Laporian is like... Oh yeah, she loves Star War.

22:38Trixie Mattel:So we were, we saw you at the same night When we were at chapel. Yeah. Oh, yes. Okay. So you went somewhere else and then Pedro came over and Fina was like, I never ask you to do this. It's the Mandalorian. Literally. But, like, you can bring me to, like, any kind of, like, you know, celebrity whatever. And I'm just, I'm like.

22:55Justin Tranter:Yeah. You know, it's not, I'm not a, let me get your picture and autograph person. Right. I'm very, like, whatever. Yeah. We're bringing our own vibe. And, you know, working with you over all these years, I feel like we have such a rapport and such a like, you know, we could be in a room together and say nothing. Right. We could talk and talk for hours. Oh.

23:16Trixie Mattel:We love soup. We both love soup. But she knows too, I have my personality disorder is sometimes on, when you're in the middle of a tour for me, I was able to be comfortable with Afina to say, I'm just going to get ready alone. Yeah.

23:28Justin Tranter:Right.

23:28Trixie Mattel:Some days I just want to do the makeup and everything and sit alone. Yeah. And she was not offended. Right. She knows that it's just like, I'll go do your wig outside. the door in this other room. It's hard to be able to be that comfortable and say shit. But also on tour buses, we're sleeping completely nude in bunks this close to each other. So you better be comfortable. You get so comfortable. Yeah.

23:49Justin Tranter:What's a part of the collaboration that you feel like people wouldn't ever imagine besides the nude bus? Oh, I mean. Like a part of the process, a part of the conversations that go like, I want it to look like this, I need you to fix this. Sometimes it's a really quick turnaround. Sometimes in the moment you can have a whole thing made and it's about not having an ego about this. We spent the whole day making this thing. It doesn't look right. We got to start over. And it's about having no ego with that and not taking it personally. And it just being like, okay, we have to like move forward. Was there ever a moment where one of you did take it personally and you had to work past it?

24:33Justin Tranter:not to try to it's not like a got you question I just I'm hoping that people that watch this are like actually learning want to learn how to be better collaborators it's like it's so funny because like she's never snapped at me no really I'm not a snapper it was in an absence of snapping I'm quiet I almost never snap but I have there was Jimmy and I worked together for 15 years and I've probably there's been at least like three snaps but I'm for the most part I'm a pretty amazing collaborator

25:02Trixie Mattel:she's like why is he crying? I'm just kidding. Are you okay? Blink once. Are you talking about the iron? Yes. There was one time. There was an iron incident. Yes. And this is how gay we are in a fight over an ironing incident. You know what I mean? So we were in Europe and she had this like spandex printed dress that we always would steam and the rotten promoter had forgotten the steamer in the previous city we were in. The rotten promoter.

25:32Justin Tranter:never getting hired by her again. Oh no, he's no longer. Like dead or stopped working? Stopped working. Okay.

25:40Trixie Mattel:What does it matter? It's the same thing. He's dead to us. In Hollywood, baby, it's the same thing. Thank you. Never work in this town again. I had forgotten the steamer in the previous city and I looked at it and I was like, I've never ironed anything before. It couldn't be too hard. So I go to put the iron down in this dress and it's like, you know, a 60s swirly print. I put it down, I pick it up and like part of the swirl had like melted off. First of all, this is making me sound crazy, which I am, but it was the last city in a long tour. Yes. So it was like the last day of like. It was like the dress.

26:13It was in Dublin, wasn't it? But you still never snapped. She never snapped. I will say when it happened, I was like, oh, you can't, because of the pattern, I was like, you couldn't really tell. And it was for the meet and greet. She would wear it for when people come take pictures of her.

26:27Trixie Mattel:It wasn't even cute looking back. Like I was mad about nothing. She lifts up the iron, though, and I look at the iron, and the print of the dress is on the iron. And I just go, huh. And so, like, we had other options for her to wear, and she's like, well, I can't wear this anymore. And I was like, okay, I get it. We have other things. She wore something else for it. And then we got off to her. We came home, and it turns out she ended up wearing the dress three or four more times.

26:54Trixie Mattel:It's true. It wasn't that ruined. It was a paisley, like, poochie print. and so if you looked you were like oh there's some pieces missing right but it was just really it was really funny looking back on it because i was mortified and i felt so bad like i came home and like i i was like i will like re-sew the front of the dress on and all this stuff but it was like things like that like you kind of realize that drag is a moving disaster you're always going to forget something yeah you're always going to something's always going to be a little fuck up. Yep. And it's important to be with someone that understands that that's just how it is and we move forward and, you know, not everything is perfect.

27:35Trixie Mattel:Yeah. Yeah, and Fina also half the time works with Katya, which I guess I'm going to assume that working for me and her are two different experiences. Yeah, for the, I mean... Different in what way? I wasn't going to say that. One is fly by the seat of your pants.

27:52Justin Tranter:I love that you established something and then like looked at me to ask a question about it. What do you think, Justin?

27:58Trixie Mattel:Don't you want to know how it might be different having to dress that crackhead up like a lampshade? Don't you think?

28:06Justin Tranter:I think that's a great question. There's a reason that someone here is an experienced podcast host that I'm just getting my fitting.

28:13Trixie Mattel:You got to ask the hard-hitting questions. You should andy-code it and be like, Beth from Green Bay wants to know. Why do you hate your mom? What's it like getting Katya in drag? That was really good. That's not bad.

28:26Justin Tranter:That was really good. I think that should be your next drag number is Andy Cohen impersonation.

28:31Trixie Mattel:I mean, it's an impersonation he's been honing for years. Yeah. And so I don't want to steal it from him. But you've seen his wig or the hair that he had for New Year's Eve. It was fabulous. Really? Yeah. He really is. His hair is incredible.

28:42Justin Tranter:But actually, I do have a real question based on your half fake question, which is because I do co-write with different people all the time. you have the people that you work with a lot, and then you randomly do go and work with somebody else. So how do you, as the collaborator who's doing somewhat of the same job with many different people, how do you pivot when somebody needs something different or somebody has a very different look? Or how do you navigate that? I mean, I know by now, when I show up for a gig with you, or I show up for Katya, like there's a very similar vibe, but also two different vibes.

29:22Like you're very streamlined. You're very like, you know, you know, what's going on. You have a lot of things are very organized. You also have a team of people around you that are helping. So it's a big collaboration with a lot of people. And it's, it's kind of like you, you, we have a conversation the night before sometimes like, Hey, I'm going to wear this and this is going to happen. Yada, yada, yada. When I go with Katia, I'm like, she's like family at this point. She's like, you know, my niece or nephew or uncle or aunt. Depending on the day.

29:54Trixie Mattel:When you're here, you're family. Literally. The Olive Garden of Drake. Literally. It's a little more like, you know, Jackson Pollock where slap and paint on her canvas. Also, can I say, Katya has, I mean, like, you know, I went to beauty school. I have some semblance of saying, Fina, this is exactly what I want with this hair. A lot of times Fina is just doing hair that kind of already, it's like pieces that are already half done. Yes. We're making Lego hair. Like a docent again. It's a docent. Katya can't brush a wig. So I think when they talk about hair, it's a lot more adjectives that have nothing to do with technical terms.

30:30Trixie Mattel:I think Katya is more like flowy. Yes. Up and down. I want to look sexy or I want to look weird or whatever. Funky. Exactly. She kind of just gives words and Fina has to be like, okay. With Katya, it's nice because I come in and it's literally, I get to like do her skin. It's a lot of, it's therapeutic for me sometimes because I used to work at a Mac store, like the makeup counter. So it's like I'm doing, you know, bridal makeup all over again. It's fun. And it's like, you know, she likes to do her eyes and I'll do her skin. And it's just kind of like we worked together the other day and it's, you know, because we come from such a similar background, like in Massachusetts and like working at the same places and not really knowing that anything greater would happen.

31:18It's always such like we have like these pinch me moments when these like really big things happen and the same for us. Like when really big things happen it feels like a big collaborated effort. You're always so generous like sharing these experiences with all of us and it's like you know it's really nice for you know people that never thought that we could you know go to these things.

31:39Trixie Mattel:She's also I don't know if you feel this way as the collaborator or what we're lovingly calling the unfamous person but But a lot of times it's her that tells us to appreciate an exact scenario we're in. Like, Katya and I are not always the most immediately in the moment grateful, let's say. You know?

31:59Justin Tranter:I have that moment all the time as the unfamous collaborator of, you know, for a long time my dream was to be a rock star. My dream was to not be the opening act at the arena, to be the headliner of the arena, to not be the songwriter, to be the singer. That was, I wanted to write, you know what I'm saying? But so when I'm with artists who are, of course, being famous is stressful, selling tickets is stressful, getting on stage is stressful. But in those moments where they are not, where they're taking it for granted or they're so overwhelmed, I'm like, do you realize how many fucking people would kill for this?

32:36Justin Tranter:Including 27 year old me would have killed. No, I'm not kidding. I probably would have done murder. If someone said, hey, if you do this murder, you'll be famous. I probably would have done it because I was 27 and stupid. Like, I think it is so beautiful for us to have had both versions of the life and go, I'm so grateful that I'm here. I don't know about you, but I'm so grateful that I'm not, I can still go to a restaurant. That's amazing. But also when people who the famous person is overwhelmed, it's great for people like us to be like, hey, I love you. But also, this is awesome. Yeah. I'm constantly the like, remember the$40 we got paid at Jock's?

33:14Justin Tranter:Remember that$40? Remember the bachelorettes at Jock's? Remember that? Because Fina was there. Right. Like, you know, and it's, you know, I get it. You get taken, it's all a big ride and it's all very overwhelming at times. Yep. But, you know, we get to get flown all around the world. be put up in very nice hotels.

33:40Trixie Mattel:Oh, you know, Katya's the nice hotel whisperer. On my fucking tours, we're at the best Western at the airport. Katya, Four Seasons, clawfoot tubs. No. You would think everything's I miss princess and the P. No. If it was up to me, we'd be on the tour bus every day and we'd share one hotel room once a week where we all take turns showering like fucking prison. Katya has us in the nicest hotel. I will say she's pulled back on that because we realized, you know, there's other things to spend money on. She was on her Build Back Better tour. Yes. Katu was on her foreclosure tour, her Build Back Better tour.

34:13Trixie Mattel:So then we got a little more modest. Yes. Which just means she's going to the airport pissed. She's not doing the private suites. She's like, it's fucking shit. Yeah. You know? But still, like, I will never, ever forget the first time I went overseas was with you. You brought me to Australia. And it was incredible. Yeah. And then we flew from Australia to London on one of those Emirates business class flights. Oh, I've seen videos of that. I don't know how we got that. We didn't deserve that, but I'm glad we got it. I don't know how either. I did not ask questions. I just said, this is fabulous.

34:52And thank you very much because 30 plus hours of flying. Wow.

34:56Trixie Mattel:I think it was our first time leaving the country. And we had gone from Australia for a month to the UK and Europe for a month. We were gone like two and a half months. Yeah. It was crazy. And that's when the ironing incident happened. That's when you have to freak out. But also it's like kind of a high low because we were in like shit bag hotels half the time. And like other, like throughout, because throughout your career, I was there. I started with you right when you, right before you won All-Stars. Oh yeah. So it was like 2017 maybe. And then when you won, I was with you when the whole trajectory going up and up and up.

35:30And I distinctly remember saying to her like in a dressing room a couple of times, like, you know, eventually you're going to need an assistant who like, you know, knows how to answer emails. And I'm, I'm like, you know. Oh yeah.

35:41Trixie Mattel:Fina, I mean, highly artistic. We love doing the drag together, but I wouldn't say that like our passion for working together is like Google sheets. Yeah. Right. So I'm like a big component of, I know my limits and I know like when you're going to need somebody and she did. And that's when I went off with Katya for a summer and then you got Brandon and it all works. And, you know, you have somebody who has the smarts who can handle all that. And then you have somebody who can do the art. Yeah. The other thing is like when Kati and I go out and do Bald and the Beautiful tours, like all day, you know, this year we're doing, I think like 10 more.

36:13Trixie Mattel:We will like share Fina because we both don't need it. We both don't need full-time help. Like we're not like Jacob Elordi and Frankenstein where we sit up in a chair and we do our own shit. Right. Kati can get her own shit on. Yeah. Although Fina got her wearing blush, which has been huge. Thank God, right? Thank God. I got to look at the before and after pictures.

36:37Justin Tranter:The corpse ride before. It's very exciting, yeah.

36:39Trixie Mattel:But from a financial standpoint, she and I can share one person rather than both having to fly separate. Yeah. And that's really nice, too, because we both have a shorthand working relationship with Fina. Yep. She knows what we need without us having to say much. Yeah. Which just like as an artist allows you to show up for makeup time for show. and all you have to worry about is you and the show. Yeah.

37:02Justin Tranter:What, for both of you, was the thing that, like, ruined your life in the sense of, like, oh, fuck, I saw this music video or I saw this photo shoot and now I have to do drag? Like, do you remember a moment from your childhood where you were like, oh, shit, this, I'm ruined now. My life is now drag. I have three. What are you? Go. That's a really good question. Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia in the gold bikini. literally Madonna Vogue that was my first at five years old that was my intro video or live performance of the Let Them Eat Cake there was a talent show at my elementary school and a group of dancers got up and did a dance to Vogue I said what is this oh so just a song I said what is this I went home stole my sister's tapes watched the videos and was like hooked so literally Madonna is the reason why I do drag okay and then I said I had three and I think the third one I don't know.

38:02I think it was just the two. It was literally Carrie Fisher and Madonna.

38:05Trixie Mattel:Yeah. I was like, oh, Rocky Horror. Rocky Horror, Tim Curry, obviously. And then when I saw Hedwig, the storytelling meets the music meets the drag show element of that was like mind-blowing.

38:19Justin Tranter:Yeah.

38:20Trixie Mattel:And Amanda Lepore.

38:21Justin Tranter:Yeah.

38:22Trixie Mattel:I remember being like 18 and Googling pictures of Amanda Lepore and just zooming in as much as I Like, I could not look away and still can't look away.

38:29Justin Tranter:Yeah.

38:29Trixie Mattel:I just think she really represents, like, truly carving your place in the world, even physically. Literally. You know what I mean? Yeah. Be the star you want to be, and she really embodies that.

38:40Justin Tranter:Yeah. I mean, I have a commissioned Amanda Lepore statue. Yeah. She's magic. She's magic. She's gay Buddha. Yeah.

38:49Trixie Mattel:And when you take it back to Rocky, it's like, don't dream it, be it. That's really her.

38:53Justin Tranter:Yeah. It's really her. So I just remembered while you guys were talking, one of my moments of like, oh, fuck, this seems so magical is when I heard someone on the radio saying that Debbie Gibson, who I loved, wrote her own songs. And I was like six. And I was like. Hey, it's Christy from Lululemon. I'm in the office with What's New and the Breezley collection has definitely caught my eye. If you're like me and want to add some lighter, airy pieces to your wardrobe, this is a great place to start. There's a Breezely tank, shorts, and pants, all in our Swift fabric, which is super lightweight and stretchy.

39:27Justin Tranter:They're flowy staples you can mix and match for a really easy elevated vibe, whether it's to and from the studio or just for every day. The Breezely collection is in store now, or you can shop online at lululemon.com. Electric Youth was written by the girl with a lot of hairspray who sings it. That's cool. Yeah. And that's like, I can remember I'm 45. I remember like hearing someone say that on the radio when I was sick. It's crazy.

39:58Trixie Mattel:When I, I mean, I was born in 89. So when I was like radio music listening age and like middle school, it was a lot of girls on the radio who played instruments and wrote music. It was Michelle.

40:08Justin Tranter:Lilith Fair.

40:08Trixie Mattel:Michelle and Vanessa and Avril and Sheryl Crow. Oh, so you're younger than me. It was all the girls. Right after Lilith Fair. The other Lilith Fair. Yeah. Yeah.

40:18Justin Tranter:And I was like, wow. Lilith Fair.

40:19Trixie Mattel:They all play their own instruments. They all write their own music. I thought that was so magical.

40:22Justin Tranter:I saw Lilith Fair in Milwaukee twice. You did? Because the tickets in Chicago were too expensive. Because I grew up in the northwest suburbs. Like Evanston? No, I grew up in Lake Zurich, like a weird, shitty little town. But like 45 minutes from Milwaukee.

40:38Trixie Mattel:Lake Zurich catching strays on the pod.

40:39Justin Tranter:Oh, it's trash. A shitty little town. Lake Zurich is trash. That school system should be condemned. I can barely spell. I can't add. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take both of our schools down. Please, please. What is something now at this point in both of your perspective careers that you, we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording, of like, I'm such a people pleaser and I have a really hard time saying no to work things, to friend things, to blah, blah. But since this is about collaboration, what are things in a collaboration that you say no to now or that you set boundaries on that you probably didn't when you first started?

41:17Justin Tranter:and it can be with each other or different collaborations or anything but what's something that you're like no i i don't i'm not doing that i think you've always been better at that

41:27Trixie Mattel:i think she's always been like i don't if i don't want to do it i'm not like i don't feel like you have this greater urgency of like like every op we have to she i don't feel that urgency for me i think for me like i have adhd so i will say yes to everything not realizing the complete like scope of it and I will never let them see it but sometimes I have like to myself like okay how do I organize all of this and like that's my big thing for this year I've had like a bunch of like help from people to like really figure out how to really streamline my life and make sure that I can give 100 % to everything because what I learned back in the day doing drag and working at the makeup counter was that I was spreading myself between two things and I could never give a hundred percent to anything.

42:18Trixie Mattel:That's true. You can't give a hundred percent to anything, then what are you really doing? And I'd rather give a hundred percent to these projects that are like so meaningful. And like I said, pick and choose when I go and do drag for myself or like, you know, do my own performances. I can really pick and choose that. I don't have to say yes to everything. But recently, I've taken my health like very seriously. Whereas like, I guess the only time I put my foot down is like, no, no, I need to eat something right now. Yeah. Or like, you know, you work these like crazy hours and you can go seven hours without having something to eat.

42:54And it's like, that's not good. Yeah. Like it's things like that. Like I prioritize going to the gym. I prioritize making sure that I have my social time and like, you know, making sure that you feel like a well-rounded person.

43:08Justin Tranter:I mean, I've been following your health and wellness journey on your Insta stories. And it's amazing to see you like care about yourself. Like not for anyone. I don't care about myself. I try so hard and I just like something comes up and I'm just like, well, I guess I won't take care of myself for six months. But it's beautiful to watch you do it. I'm going to tell you that like when the mood strikes, you go for it. And like, I never feel bad about all the times that I didn't because like, you know, we had some amazing adventures around the world. And I was kind of like, I kind of left all that on the back burner.

43:39We had a lot of really funny experiences when I was 400 pounds going around the world. I can't believe that.

43:45Trixie Mattel:I saw some clip of O the other day and I do not even, I didn't even recognize you. I was like, who is this person? I was like, you were turned away from the camera. I was like, who is this person? And I was like, oh my God. Do you remember the airport? Oh my God. Yeah. So it was like early in the morning one time. We were like some, I don't even know. We were in Europe. We were in Europe. And this, so early. It was like one of those 6 a.m. horrible call times. And you know, you're putting these huge suitcases that you know are overweight. Yep. And they're going to yell at you and charge you. And it was just us.

44:13Trixie Mattel:The tour was just us. We didn't have a team. And the woman behind the counter was like, oh, your thing is too heavy. And you came up behind me and you were like, what's going on? And she said, he's overweight. She goes, he's still overweight. And I said, he has a different body type. Ha! But it was the luggage. It was. We died. It was the luggage. She did not think it was funny, but we were dying. We died laughing. She didn't laugh. I was like, okay, girl.

44:39Justin Tranter:Now, were you being hysterical because you're hysterical? Or were you actually, like, defending your friend? No, I was being funny.

44:45Trixie Mattel:It was more for her because it was early, and this woman was giving her a hard time. I'm like, we need to break the silence here, you know? And sometimes it's like I feel profiled at the airport when bags are overweight, and they basically tell you that you can't afford the overage. Sometimes I'm like, I feel like Erin Brockovich. I'm like, whose number do you need? I know this bag is 80 pounds. Yeah. Just whatever. What am I supposed to do? Not wear shoes tomorrow? Like, what do you want me to do? I wear a women's 15. This bag is just shoes. Okay? Like, I don't know what to say. Are you really a woman's 15?

45:18Trixie Mattel:I'm a women's like 14, 14, 15. Yeah, I'm a 13 wide. Yeah. Yeah. You understand. I would say I get better now at, ever since I got arthritis, I just can't be in drag all the time. I can't do everything. Right. So quality over quantity. Do less. And like, when you first start doing drag and you're like, I have a show in three weeks, I better start planning now. That energy is coming back to me where I'm like, do less and make a meal out of those things. Cool. Do the most. Cool. Because who cares? Yeah. It's just cross-dressing. The urgency I felt for years of like, you would have thought I was in the army.

45:55Trixie Mattel:You would have thought I was doing open heart surgery. Katu is always much better at like, it's not that serious. Yeah. Nothing is that serious. You stress yourself out. It's been a lot of years feeling like I had to cover every base and I had to put my heel on the throat of every drag queen who tried to get what I wanted.

46:11Justin Tranter:Yep.

46:12Trixie Mattel:And I just don't feel it anymore.

46:13Justin Tranter:Yeah.

46:13Trixie Mattel:I'm just like, I want to do these small projects, these projects and say no to the rest out of respect for the things you're doing now. Do you feel like if it, if the arthritis didn't happen,

46:24Justin Tranter:do you think you would have achieved that on your own emotionally? Or did, did like the sort of physical hindrance push you to it? It was that.

46:33Trixie Mattel:Yeah. I don't think I've ever would have figured it out.

46:34Justin Tranter:Cause I, the reason I'm asking is like fully selfish of like, I keep trying, I keep telling myself, I'm not going to do double sessions. I'm not meaning like I write two songs in a day with two different groups of people. and I'm not, I keep telling myself I'm gonna slow down and then I just don't know how to do it. It's like. It's hard. Yeah. I mean, especially for like drag that never thought it was gonna be big or famous or go anywhere. Yeah. You kind of feel this like excitement to say yes to literally everything because these are things that no other person has stepped foot in. Yeah.

47:09Trixie Mattel:Luckily, I mean, when we get to do together, sometimes we're the first drag queens doing things. Right. There's a like reverence of like, We got to do it. But you got to think when we started doing drag, which we both started before Drag Race, even RuPaul at the time, and I say this with complete love, was an icon, of course, but it wasn't the RuPaul we know now.

47:30Justin Tranter:Right.

47:30Trixie Mattel:So when we started doing drag... She was touchable back then.

47:33Justin Tranter:She wasn't financially living... She could be at your pride.

47:38Trixie Mattel:RuPaul might be at your pride. Right. And now it's like we come from a time of drag where that was... RuPaul was the tip, tip, top, and she... wasn't doing things that drag queens do now. Right. And so for a lot of years, we felt an urgency of like, you have to say yes. Yeah. You have to do it all. I mean, my family thought it was insane, the things that we were doing. Like, they were not insane in a bad way, but just insane. Like, that's incredible. Like, they literally think I'm a, like, my niece and nephew who are like, senior in high school and in college, the fact that I work with like huge YouTube people, because YouTube is so huge with the kids now.

48:13Oh, it's. They think that it's like the coolest thing. Yeah. They think it's like, you know, they walk around their school like I'm some superstar. YouTube is huge.

48:19Justin Tranter:Oh, it's been my niece, who's now 25, when she was 15, when I was lucky enough to be working with, like, Bieber and Selena 10 years ago, she was like, oh, that's cool. When I said, oh, I, you know, had a session with Troye Sivan last week. And this is before Troye Sivan was a pop star. He was a YouTuber a decade ago. My niece, it was like, she could not believe that I wrote a song with a big YouTuber. And that was a decade ago. It's only gotten bigger. Yeah. Yeah.

48:50Trixie Mattel:I say this affectionately, like TV wishes. TV wishes that were YouTube so bad. And we've done a lot of TV together. Right. We've done our own shows, my show together. Yeah. YouTube is what you thought TV was going to be like. Yep. You have so much more creative control. There's less people in the room. Every idea in the moment, you can pivot. Yeah. TV's not like that.

49:09Justin Tranter:Yeah.

49:09Trixie Mattel:you gotta wait for all these old white guys to say yes and then they give you not the money you need not the time you need to do kind of the idea you want. Like really. And it seems like way more stressful. Yeah and in YouTube world it's like we really connect. Steam the backdrop. Turn on the lights. Yeah. It's really just us. Every idea is a good idea and I love that part of it. Like I used to want to do YouTube until I could do TV and over the years it's like TV just is not to be youtube now makes is the funest thing right it really is like all of the content like doing uh was such a you know it's time capsuled and it's such a wonderful experience and getting to learn that's where i learned how to be on a set yeah so now when i go to a big professional set i know how to act right like and you really like i don't take that for granted like that was a huge learning experience because katya and i set really good standards for how to act on set but no honestly like then we moved on to netflix the i like to watch show there's probably 30 people on that set yeah wow it's huge wow it's you i can't believe how big that set is and they've been with us for years yeah since it started it's a family that's that's like the wonderful part about like those kind of things like working in that kind of environment especially in the in like with queer people yeah like it's so rare but to have like a family of queer people.

50:32Justin Tranter:Yeah. Love. Do you guys know, I get asked all the time, do you know when a song is a hit? Do you know when you're filming something that either something you said or a look that has been achieved, do you know like, okay, this is going to go crazy? The internet's going to gag for this look or for this joke or can you feel it? Yeah.

50:53Trixie Mattel:I can. If it's funny to me, it's going to be funny. If we're laughing, Kati and I, because I think in a lot of types of media, but people have to do something funny and then not laugh. Like if you're in the office, you have to be so funny and not laugh. Cotton night, obviously like never be able to do that. Right. And so I don't know about you, but when we're, when it's going, when it's, we're laughing, we're all laughing. Yeah. It's going to be good. That's like a, when I feel like, Oh, this will be clipped. It'll I'll see it on Tik TOK for years. Right. It's usually some moment where something goes off the rails in a very, in a very organic real way.

51:25Yeah. Yeah.

51:26Trixie Mattel:Yeah. I mean, I am so grateful for all of the love that all the crazy hairstyles I've done over the years have gotten. Weird shit. And like, in a way. Not for me. Sometimes. Not that weird. I mean, I'm not as adventurous with hair stuff as Katia is.

51:41Justin Tranter:Well, your brand is like very specific to what the silhouette's going to be for the most part. Yeah.

51:46Trixie Mattel:And we're doing like 60s hairstyles. We're not inventing the wheel. Whereas Katia, the hairstyles that get immortalized is the weird shit that got Fina hot glued to her head. And there's times now where I'll get queens that'll come up to me and be like, oh my God, your crazy hair show style hair kind of inspired this new generation of crazy hairstyles.

52:11Justin Tranter:Now wigs that you have made have become other people's moments that ruined their life. Okay, fuck, I guess I have to do drag now because that wig is so insane. I need to do it. People take it and they perfect it, which I love. And I always say like... That hurts when somebody does it perfect. No, no, no. This is a Star Wars quote, but it's like, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of being a master. I think we should go. Okay, before we go. By the way, we need to hang out because I'm a sci-fi geek too. Not a Star Wars geek, but we'll talk later because I don't want to bore Trixie.

52:44Justin Tranter:Okay, so to wrap it up, we play a little quick game called gag or drag, but you can also answer meh. So if you love it, it's a gag. If you hate it, it's drag. but we've learned that you also have to have a meh option because sometimes you just don't really care about something. Okay. White eyeliner in the waterline. Is it a gag? Is it a drag? Or you don't really care?

53:06Trixie Mattel:It's a gag. Exactly. Thank you. What are we supposed to say? You love it. Of course. Okay, great. Got it. What kind of person would I be if I said?

53:15Justin Tranter:I mean, listen, Morgan wrote these and she knew her audience.

53:20Trixie Mattel:Yeah, it's a yes. It's the ultimate. She just wanted to double check. It's a gag. Yeah. Twiggy. It's a gag. I will say, yes, Twiggy. Twiggy. For me, I always am amazed at how narrow people's, like, when I came out in drag, people were like, oh, it's Bianca Del Rio. And then when Bianca did it, it was bozo. It's like the family tree of people who have popularized white liner is not as incestuous as you think. There's a lot of white liner use in this world. A lot. Yes.

53:48Justin Tranter:Yeah. Overdrawing the lips past reason. that's subjective

53:55Trixie Mattel:what is past reason I like my favorite thing that your photo editor does is when you overdraw your lips and they for like any of the makeup campaigns and they smooth it out to make it look like you got pumped but they move my cupid bow up it's fabulous really because otherwise my real lip will photograph like you can see my real lip so they'll move it up in post and it's fabulous a flip do you love that yeah it looks great I mean I have five syringes of filler in my lips to get that same effect and like... You just need a photo editor. Yes, exactly. Well, that's the thing. Her and Katya both have surgically enhanced lips.

54:30Trixie Mattel:Yeah. And so I'm the fucking fool for drawing, you know what I mean? No, I think there's a line. There's a line that you can cross and I've crossed it. You know, I've done drag long enough that I have definitely done looks where I've crossed that line too far. But you gotta find your, what fits your face and your character. Sometimes you look, like Katie used to have no, Katya used to have no lips. Oh, thin, villainous lips. And like red liner. Yeah. The Joker. Yeah. But I never thought that then, and now with her new lips, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, how do you wear red lips if you don't have some help?

55:08Trixie Mattel:Oh, yeah, it's rotten.

55:09Justin Tranter:It's rotten, okay. Symmetry that's too perfect. Oh, see.

55:15Trixie Mattel:I can feel like Darian looking at me over here.

55:18Justin Tranter:I'm going to say that. We actually did read these questions for Darian too. And she was like, yeah, I think they're all good. Yeah.

55:23Trixie Mattel:I'm going to say that it's kind of a drag. It's kind of a drag. I'm going to say it's not as important as you think it is. All my videos, people comment like, damn bitch, you look surprised. But like, I got other things going on. Yeah. I'm freeform hand drawing eyebrows on every day. Right. Yeah. Right. I feel like, like, you know, it fits for some people, for your personality, if you can sit there and you're doing, because I know a queen that literally will put the tape on her face and do like a math equation on her brows to get them exactly perfect. And I'm like, the look of it is stunning. The look of it is wonderful.

55:57But I'm sure the 45 bachelorettes that are drunk in the audience do not give a fuck.

56:01Trixie Mattel:It's for the inner experience, which I can appreciate. Exactly. It's for doing it for yourself. It's for her. Yeah. You know, that's what I love. Some of these drag queens take hours to get ready, and they like it. It's like Camara Hall takes like eight hours. Oh, my God.

56:12Justin Tranter:I mean, I don't know her, but I've seen her say that online. But they love that. It's for them. It's like a meditation. They know the audience can't tell. Yeah.

56:19Trixie Mattel:You know? I just, not that I don't have appreciation for makeup artistry, but I was just talking to Luscious Massacre, and she was like, we got to get the girls in and out of their face in 30 minutes. She was like, we all tend to spend too much time putting makeup on. I was like, I kind of agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, working at the makeup counter, it was like, turn it and burn it. Yeah. You know, we both worked at retail counters. You have to do people's makeup in 50 minutes. Right. And check them out in the last 10 minutes.

56:45Justin Tranter:Yeah. Really? I worked at the least glamorous makeup counter, which was Aveda. You worked at Aveda? I worked at Prescriptus for a little while, too. That was right across from there. You know, makeup made from, like, you know, tea leaves and whispers.

56:57Trixie Mattel:I went to an Aveda Institute of Beauty and Wellness for my beauty degree. Oh, God, no way. And I do love Aveda products. That men's performance was so horny. It's discontinued now. No. Yeah, I look at it on eBay. It's hundreds of dollars.

57:08Justin Tranter:The hate gay people. The volcanic ash. So good. Love. There was, like, the sap moss hair shit. Amazing. I love Aveda products. I can't help it.

57:15Trixie Mattel:You guys are crushing it on this rapid fire part.

57:18Justin Tranter:Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, go, go, go, go, go, go. This, I'm going to do my answer first, which is a full gag. Looks that are intentionally ugly. Like fashion makeup choices that are intentionally ugly. I love.

57:33Trixie Mattel:Okay.

57:35Justin Tranter:That's subjective, though. That's subjective. Fair, fair. Because, like, I... I'd like the person to be in on it.

57:40Trixie Mattel:Yes, that's a gag.

57:41Justin Tranter:I learned this from Darian, who's a makeup artist friend of ours. sister who's in the room of like, I was like, well, but like, do I look hot? And she's like, well, not every look needs to be about looking hot. Yeah, that's true. And like some of the most iconic makeup looks, hair looks, fashion choices are not actually, please. I used to do a night called hot mess Sundays. Every Sunday in Boston was different look. And it was sometimes crazy. We would glue trash bags onto ourselves. We would do like the most insane things. And sometimes ugly is a serve.

58:12Trixie Mattel:It's a serve. Yeah. I think it's fine. I mean, I'm going to say I'm going to say gag. Is that too positive? No, I think it's good.

58:18Justin Tranter:Yeah, I think it's good. Yeah, it's a gag for me. Yeah. Trust me as the only explanation.

58:28Trixie Mattel:Drag. No. Yeah. I'm going to need a mirror.

58:31Justin Tranter:Yeah.

58:31Trixie Mattel:Okay, great. I love it. Just trust me. When has that ever worked out? Just trust me, girl. Girl, can I tell you this? I know this is not rapid fire. One time I did this photo shoot for Out Magazine. And this, you were there, weren't you? Yes. A person was photographing me and it was inside daylight and they were crouching. And I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Hi, what's going on here? I said an upshot, heavy gristle, heavy contrast, heavy gristle. And they said, oh, don't worry, girl. I'm a master manipulator of light. Trust me. Tell me why that whole spread had to go in black and white.

59:04Trixie Mattel:Yeah. Outdoors in down Santiali. It was rotten.com. And there's no reason why they weren't good pictures. I was in full horror drag at like Santiali. and don't trust people. Sorry, especially in drag with lighting. It's situations like this where I have to go in and I have to very gently talk to like a heterosexual man about the side lighting. I'm like the murder mystery doc, the Netflix doc lighting, we need to cut it. I need you to pull your car up and blast me with the high beams. Yeah, okay. A hundred percent. And this is like another thing, like the last thing that I've learned from you is literally watching you on all these sets, the way you act, the way you know everything.

59:42I have learned so much from you about the business of it and about just the technical part of it. Those are all things that I learned from you. So that's why I love that it's like, you know, where I've, you know, maybe put a waterproof cream eyeliner on your countertop and you, you know, inspired a new eyeliner. You've also inspired a professionalism and knowledge of just the whole thing.

1:00:09Trixie Mattel:Nobody should ever let me do YouTube and do my own lighting because now I'm just like a monster.

1:00:14Justin Tranter:Right. I mean, it's a good thing, though. You know what you want. Yeah. Because the rapid fire is not rapid fire at all. It's too entertaining. I think I'm just going to jump right to the end, which is what is one thing that anyone who's watching who wants to learn about collaboration, what is one, like, piece of advice that you could give someone about being a good collaborator? Like, what makes a good collaborator?

1:00:40Trixie Mattel:I think everybody I've really enjoyed collaborating with, which is like not even that many. I don't think I'm like you, Justin. I don't always love collaborating as much as I like working on my own. I just think as drag queens, we are on our own from the beginning. We're sewing everything where we can music. So I always came from drag shows where we're all in the show together, but we're not in each other's numbers. We didn't make each other's costumes. We're all on our own, really. I think every time I've had an instinct that somebody and I are going to work well together and I follow that instinct, it pretty much always works out.

1:01:08Trixie Mattel:If you feel like, I would love to work with them, just like say it and go do it. I love that. Agreed. And I'll put on top of that is really reeling in your ego. Reeling in your ego and realizing that like, you know, you just put whatever you've got, you lay it out on the table. You brought the charcuterie board today. Yep. You put it all out there. If one person picks up a piece of cheese, you've succeeded. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, you have to celebrate those little things. Yeah.

1:01:39Justin Tranter:And as people behind the camera, behind the microphone, whatever we want to call ourselves, it really is this like endless surrender of ego, which I'm so glad that I started collaborating behind the scenes in my 30s. Because in my 20s, it would have driven me crazy. I would have been jealous.

1:01:59Trixie Mattel:That's the thing. When you're young, it's really hard to collaborate because everything is about you. Yeah, like when Kati and I started working together, Kati was so famous, and it was like almost a real good exercise, and like, well, you're the friend of, and that's like, whatever. Just do it. Who cares? It's, you know, when you're, I mean, drag queens, we think everything's about us at all times. Only as you get older do you realize, like, I'm really only in charge of this space. Right. And that's okay. People simmer with age. They really do. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, in my 30s and now 40s, I feel like I've reached a point where I'm like, I am so cool with being on the other side of the camera and just getting to help out.

1:02:41And that's, you know, that's good enough for me. Agreed. Same. I love it.

1:02:46Justin Tranter:Thank you both so much. This was so funny and lovely. And I think people like, we haven't had a conversation like this before. So it's been a lot of like music-based conversations and this performance and in drag, there's performance, there's visual, there's music, there's everything. So thank you so much for sharing and being fabulous.

1:03:07Trixie Mattel:Well, I hope that as an unknown behind the scenes creator, perhaps you could be famous.

1:03:11Justin Tranter:I hope so too, one day. Maybe in my 70s. In my 70s. Yes. Oh my God.

1:03:16Trixie Mattel:You're going to be Iris Apfel or some shit. You are going to be such a freak. You're going to be in the desert or something.

1:03:22Justin Tranter:I want to wear a lot more makeup the older I get. Like I want to like get LASIK so I don't have to wear glasses. And like as I get more and more wrinkles, because I'm not going to touch my face, I'm not going to do anything. I want to get really wrinkly and just wear like an obscene amount of black eyeliner the older I get. I have a vision coming. Were you a baby goth? I was not a baby goth. I was like a baby, like kind of like club kid wannabe. Okay. But in the Midwest, it's like whatever you wanted to be in the Midwest, you were doing a bad job. And you look like you were like -

1:03:49Trixie Mattel:The club kid of Lake Zurich. Yes. Love.

1:03:52Justin Tranter:Love. Love it. Thank you both so much. Of course.

1:04:00Justin Tranter:Hello, hello, everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say please follow and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday.