Valencia Grace + Kyle Stuart | Finding your artistic identity and building the right team

26:15they got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that first year. I had no idea what the fuck was going on. I was literally just, I was kind of scrambling to do anything I could. I just wanted to do a really good job. So I just, it was anything from just doing like the admin work to making sure they were getting to places on time to fucking anything really. Yeah. there isn't a specific sort of sheet of your roles and responsibilities for management. You're wearing so many hats. And, you know, because Duran has been around for like four decades, over four decades now, in terms of the creative, they're already established creatively.

27:01So I didn't really have much input there at all. But with someone like Valencia, it's sort of starting from the ground up. So there's a lot of room for possibility there. And I think it's a little hard to explain, I guess, but it is just a totally different world.

27:21Justin Tranter:You know, I'm just trying to build her up and trying to help her with her image and also just making the right decisions and just getting you with the right people and in front of the right people. And also just like protecting mental health. I was just about to say. Yeah. Like you're also like one of my closest friends and like I'm gonna shut up I'm gonna cry Yeah Please explain finger guns Anytime we're about to start crying we just point finger guns at each other There was one moment I'm just gonna tell this really stupid story really quick that'll hopefully make you laugh But there was a moment on her tour in DC We played at this venue called Songbird which is this really cute venue and she was just ripping on the piano.

28:13I think it was picture frames that you were singing, yeah. And she started crying during the song and then she luckily turned to the left near the curtain where I was like standing and I looked at her and I just go... She had to see Kyle on the floor like this. And that made everything better, I think. That show was kind of a hot-ass mess. No, but it was amazing. I like bent down one too many times. I ripped my skirt because ass too fat.

28:42Justin Tranter:Hey, that's a good problem to have. We like kissed on stage. By accident. By accident. I like trying to rip her skirt off for her because it's hanging on by a thread. I can't get it off and like... No, it was, it was, you come on to help me with my guitar because, you know, I was born with, you know, I was very lucky with my jeans and have been given this lovely head of hair. However, putting on a guitar strap, yes, so I have Kyle help me. And I said, okay, well, if you come on stage, you always have to like, give me a little kiss before you go. And then there was one in DC when we both accidentally looked at the right time and we kissed on stage and everyone went, ooh.

29:24It was amazing.

29:25Justin Tranter:So that is a big difference of managing an emerging artist. My God, if I did that to Simon Le Bon, I think I'd literally just die. It was amazing. Valencia, for you, when you went from a label, right, which is when we're young musicians, we all think like a label is the answer to every problem. Well, because you don't know anything about the music industry unless you either like really make the effort to learn about it or you're in it. Yeah, so you think labels it. And so when you went from being a label to independent, how did that emotionally feel for you? And what do you think it meant for your career?

30:07I remember like brainstorming ways of how I could call like the president of the label to like convince him that it would be worth keeping me on. Like I was not okay. I literally thought that it was the end for me. And I mean, maybe that's dramatic, but I just, I wasn't happy obviously because I was, you know, I was losing who was going to pay for my shit. Yeah. So I'm like, damn, I'm going to be like real poor after this. And then I literally like, thank God they dropped me so that I didn't get shelved. They like respected me enough as an artist to let me free because they very well could have been like okay but let's just place a bet on Valencia and let's keep them in the label and then it's like you can't release anything you can't do anything so I'm very happy but at the time it was absolutely terrifying but the good news was was that I had lawyers that were able to argue um a sum of money that would that that was because if you're you're signing an artist I was 17 when I was signed.

31:29And so the whole purpose of giving an advance is so that you quit your coffee job or your job at Tesco's. So they hire you. Yeah, so they give you an advance so that you quit your jobs. And then when they drop you, yes, you're an artist, but come on. You have no job. And you have no income. And also depending on where you are in your career. And I was able to argue with some of money being like, you need to let me go with something. And so it was that money that I took myself to New York and then stopped working with my management.

32:06Justin Tranter:No, but this is actually all very, very interesting because I think so much of what happens in the music business is such a fucking mystery. And you just saying, when they wanted to drop me, I found, my lawyers found a way for them to give me a little bit of money to leave. Yes, so you can do that. That is going to change so many people's lives because so much of what happens in those inner workings, I was dropped four times. I never had a lawyer do that for me. T. So now I was in the music business in a much less ethical era when I was an artist. So I don't know if it could have done that for me if they wanted to.

32:42Justin Tranter:But just hearing that's possible is really important. It's like kids need to know that because we all think, well, whatever the label wants, whatever they say, I just want to fucking pay my rent and be able to eat from music. Right. Let the label help me. But then we learn a lot of times the label doesn't help you, but you found a situation where you were able to leave with a little bit of money in your pocket, which is awesome. I left with enough to move me out to New York and fund my whole project like myself. Do you think that your artistry changed and benefited from that freedom? Yes. Yes, so I, when I, I believe I was still with, yes, I believe I was still with my, I can't even remember.

33:29I just, I had a, I had a, like a catch up coffee with my friend Biba, who's another artist. And she told me that I was, there was like a bit of me that I wasn't honoring. And I reflected on that. And she just reminded me that I was a musical theater kid. and um but you know she was reminding me like you can still keep your darkness but like go and honor that part of you yeah and I then was like okay shit like maybe yeah I guess when I started being an artist I was writing songs because I was like depressed and sad and um lost and I had no friends so I had to like tell my story somehow and then once I got better it was like what do I write about so now then learning that I could be theatrical and that was an opening then like I could write even like the topics to write about can you know expand there's so much more

34:37Justin Tranter:possibilities do you think you would sign with a label again for money for money yeah I need money If you want this to keep going, someone give me some money. Because damn. A label or just a Venmo. Or like an angel investor. Sugar daddy, sugar mommy, anyone. My DMs are open. Kyle also checks them, so we've got eyes on everything. I swear to God.

35:10Justin Tranter:When you started sharing parts of Slut and Voodoo before those songs, by the way, that's just the most iconic thing I've ever seen. Just the nozzle to the head is just so cunt. It's so cunt. And there's no way to not acknowledge it while it happens. There's no way I can just act like that that's normal. So please keep doing it, but also know that I'm going to keep doing that. That's okay. you started sharing parts of slut and voodoo online before they were done before they were out before they were is that something you had done in the past or what was the thought process with that always I mean social media is like 15 second like clips so there was even a time when um I would just write to the point like I'd write a verse in a chorus and I'd be really happy with it and I post it online yeah but that was was like when I was just writing like I mean I'm writing a lot now but like I was less like now I feel like intentional like I'll finish the song like it's more intentional definitely like I want to I want to write a song to put it out and then I'll promote I'd love excited to promote it rather than I'm writing I've written enough to post on social media I'm gonna post on social media if he reacts well I guess I'll finish it like I don't do that What made you change that thought process?

36:31Justin Tranter:Because that concept is not new to me because lots of people your age do that. But in my old person brain, that's like, oh, that's crazy to post it before it's done, blah, blah, blah. Which I don't think there's a right or wrong way. I think it's actually really cool. So that's why I'm asking questions. What made you stop doing that? What made you change that? It was, I think just I write less and I write more intentionally because I'm not sad anymore. So I think when I was younger, I wasn't doing as well as I was now. And so there was a lot more to pull from, I guess, or I had a lot more to kind of sieve through.

37:16Whereas now I'm like happy. I'm a happy person and I'm excited about being an artist. And so now I'm like approaching my artistry slightly differently. But of course, like, I, like, what happened with Voodoo was something happened. And then I was like, I'm gonna fucking write a song, motherfucker. And then, and then, yeah, it's like, then I will post it straight away. But I, I had, oh, yeah, I hadn't finished it then. So I guess it really depends on like, where the song comes from. I have to say about Voodoo, she called me when she found out about the thing that the song is about. and told me about what was going on.

37:58And then she was just like, okay, I'm going to go write a song and hung up FaceTime without me even saying, okay, goodbye. And literally like probably like 45 minutes later, she came back and FaceTimed me and just played me the draft of the song. I was like, holy fuck. It was crazy. Amazing. Ripped it.

38:18Justin Tranter:As a manager, what are your thoughts about when you should start teasing a song, when you like do you do you have like strategy behind that or is it just the wild wild west and it doesn't fucking matter uh i definitely do try and offer up strategy when we're doing like a rollout of a single or whatever and i i do try and give valencia some sort of like skeleton groundwork of how we should maybe do it but also she is like she knows social media in and out better than I think anyone. So she kind of also just does her own thing. So even if I'm like, let's not start teasing it until like three weeks from now.

39:02And then 10 minutes later, she's like already started teasing it. And I'm just like, honestly, whatever, you know what you're doing. So I think it depends. It depends. Yeah. She'll do whatever she wants. That's what I'm trying to say. But I need also like in terms of like knowing which song to put out, like time frame wise it was December uh not like last December but before and so this was pre um Magus like a year and year and a half ago a year and a half ago and we so so I went okay first person I thought about CJ Barron shout out CJ Barron we love you um he I reached out to him Did you know him?

39:48So I was following the, just quickly on how I know him, I was following the Portals, Melanie Martinez's album rollout, and I just thought it was spectacular. And so I was curious. I followed it. When the record came out, I just thought, wow, I've never heard these sounds before, like production have perched in this way before. And I was immediately in this beautiful, beautiful universe, and I loved the way that Melanie's vocal was done as well. And I just was like, who is it? So I was CJ Barron. So I followed him on Instagram, did the whole like Instagram flirting thing, you know, and that we connected.

40:29And then I did a session with him and then, but I couldn't like afford him. It's all like, oh my God, I'm sorry.

40:39Justin Tranter:Someone Venmo this girl. but like I couldn't afford him and that's just like it like even if you connect with someone you love someone like also the reality is that like things cost a lot and I couldn't where I just it wasn't stars did not align yeah and then I got dropped by everyone you could possibly imagine and was left completely alone and he was the first person I thought about and then I reached out to him and then we wrote so then back to the timeline we wrote I got like dropped and everything in October November was like you know calling CJ and figuring you know like let's book this when are you free December he was free we had like a five day session the first day we wrote everything reminds me of you the second day we wrote the Holy Trinity the third day we wrote on repeat the fourth day we wrote Petal and the Thorn Petal and the Thorn is so beautiful by the way it is so good I listened to it this morning and blown away.

41:38Thank you. That one, she gets a time live. We can't, you know, we're not putting her out yet. It's not the time yet. But I really appreciate that. It is so beautiful and spooky and gorgeous. But yeah, no, so the timeline, like we were literally, we had these like four, I actually ended up only being three, wasn't it? So everything reminds me of you on repeat in the Holy Trinity. I would then have to go, we'd put out a song. it would have to be whatever the song we wrote in the session was but luckily it was we had really good chemistry so we liked the songs and then I'd put out a song go oh shit need a new one I'd come back here write a new one put it out I'd go okay shit time for a new one and then whilst doing that we'd be prepping because I do videos for everything we'd be prepping the videos and everything of the next one while the other one was rolling out.

42:37It was insane. But that's also why there wasn't really much say on what came out next because I only had limited what was done. But now, what's next? What's after Voodoo? I don't think we know yet. I have no idea. We actually have some songs now. They're piling up now. Cool. You know, I got some bitches to write about. Cracks, Knuckles. Some shit has happened recently. Yeah.

43:07Justin Tranter:Stare the camera down. Yeah. Give it to them. Yeah. Is there a moment that both of you can think of in your careers? It doesn't have to be together, but in your careers, that you look back and you can't believe you did that because it was a huge mistake. But you grow from it and you learn. Because I think, again, trying to help people learn from this podcast. Like, is there something you do, oh, that was total, like an industry faux pas or a creative faux pas or something that you're like, I can't believe I did that. No, you're both perfect. Okay, next question. Well, I think I've had so many fuck ups.

43:45I mean, I've fucked up so many times. I don't think there's been anything like monumental. Otherwise, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. But yeah, there's been so many times. Like the industry moves so fucking quickly. Yeah. And your head will just be spinning around and around. And it's so hard to keep up sometimes. And like, unfortunately, sometimes you will just like drop the ball or forget to do something. And listen, yeah, that's happened many times. I'm not perfect at all. And I think you kind of just have to fuck up in order to do better next time. There's one little, I don't know, little tiny mistake that I'm thinking of right now where I booked her flights to go to London for a show and I accidentally put her stage name, Valencia Grace, on all her flight info.

44:36So she couldn't get on the plane? It was the whole thing. It was just a whole thing. So don't make that mistake, please. It's really annoying. It's just you can't go through. No, we did. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. It happens. It happens. Yeah, I don't really... I don't know. Mistakes are like what you learn. I'm very like I will never answer the question like what would you say to your younger self if you blah blah blah like I would not say anything like I'm I maybe I just don't understand the question but like I just think that we are here because of all the things we had to learn somehow. Yeah.

45:14It's also a great way to learn about conflict resolution and that really teaches you like if like a you know partnership is compatible like that's so important to learn from.

45:25Justin Tranter:Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a question we ask every episode, which is what was the song or movie or musical or whatever it was in your life that ruined your life and you were like, oh fuck, now I must be an artist. I must work in the arts. What was the thing that was like, oh, well, that's it now. This is what I have to do for the rest of my life, no matter how torturous it is. You want to go first? No, you go. Okay, so I don't have a single song, but the whole entire soundtrack for the OC. Oh my God, are you straight? Like low-key maybe. No, but literally that soundtrack, I don't care. It's so fucking good.

46:12Justin Tranter:No, it's very good. It's just very bro-y. Is it bro-y? It's like straight girl slash bro-y adjacent. I was I was I'm not a foreign yeah not like yeah that great song totally but when I think about the OC also like I was I think I was like eight years old when that came out and Morgan and like all her high school friends would watch it in the basement and I would like sneak in the basement and watch it behind the couch but that's how I first found out about like Imogen Heap Daft Punk the killer okay that's awesome never mind like mine I that's a lot chiquer than I thought I wasn't giving the OC credit that it was due and the way they utilize the songs in the context of the TV show just like I was like holy shit I didn't know I could like feel like this but I always credit that as the reason why I work in the industry I mean that's the that's the I love that a lot actually but I think my my only my main connection to OC is that the original guitar player in my band was definitely having like a mental breakdown and watched the entire series of the OC like four times in a row.

47:27Justin Tranter:I do that too. Um, yes. So, and he is known to like some very bro-y music. So that's what, that's what washed over me when you said that. So apologies. I didn't know there was Imogen Heap and the killer. Oh my God. There's an insane moment with hide and seek and SNL did this amazing spoof off of it where like Marissa Cooper shoots Ryan's brother and it's like just so stupid and it's so amazing and you feel so many things but yeah, the soundtrack is so good. Okay, I'm gonna do my homework so I can be more respectful to your answer. Do you have your answer, Valencia? Shrek the musical. I love Shrek the musical.

48:09Justin Tranter:Wait, who wrote Shrek? Who wrote the songs to Shrek the musical? Someone needs to Google. Someone Google. I need to know this answer. I actually spoke, because I did a podcast. It was the one with... The Audio Technical Podcast. That was great, because he knew all the lore about everyone. He knew everything. Yeah, I was like, Shrek the Musical. He went, don't you love... And I was like, okay. Wow. To be honest, I'm a big, huge theater fan, but I actually did not know there was a Shrek the Musical. I've pulled it up, and the composer is Janine Tesori, and the lyricist and book writer is David Lindsay Abare.

48:46Justin Tranter:Okay. Again, I have more homework here. The OC in Shrek the Musical. Story of my life. Keeping you on your toes. What is it about Shrek the Musical that connects with you so deeply? Did you play Shrek? No. Because you said you played all the male roles. I played Fagin. Wait, is that his? No, no, no, wait. Wait, that's an Oliver. Lord Farquaad. I was like, there's a character named F***. What'd you call me? This podcast is over. No, see, I was Fagan, who was the male pick. You were Lord? I was Lord Farquaad. I was on my knees. Oh, my God. How old were you playing Lord, what's his name? Farquaad?

49:27Justin Tranter:Farquaad. What you call me? What you call me? Oh, my God.

49:34I was under the age 11. Oh, my God. Yeah. it's just like

49:42Justin Tranter:is he the one with like the weird wig yes the fuck ass bob what a present surprise he's like you know walks on his knees so while you were playing the lord you were like that's it I'm gonna make music till the day I fucking die it was actually like okay so maybe this isn't this is just I'm just really really inspired by Shrek the musical there's the version like the original version that of like the Broadway like the first show it's on um it's on Netflix I think or at least it's on YouTube and I love it because it's a story about someone who feels different and they don't have any friends and they meet like other freaks and that was me I was eating my lunch at school for a period of time with my like in the bathroom with my feet up like hiding yeah it was fucking embarrassing no that's fabulous I think anyone who had friends like before they were 16 is not cool I know I just think that's a I mean I started having friends at theater camp when I was I guess 12 but like if you had friends at like normal school at the age of 9 you suck now weird that's just weirdo weirdo weird behavior okay track the musical i'm gonna i'm gonna do my i'm gonna do my research i'm gonna do my research i don't know i mean i guess i just found i found it during the lockdown was when i was properly listening to it and i was like it just got me through it like i know the whole soundtrack and like the songs are really good there's um like princess fiona she knows she grows up in a tower so she was like a there's a song and it's like i know it's today like i know i'm gonna get out today and it's a like baby her and then she extends the note and goes around the tower and then as she's extending the note the older one comes out at the you know and then it's just so cool oh like the time lapse yeah i know it's today and then it's an older person playing fiona there's a princess and a princess okay so good i will i will do my homework they're all like me i love it um speaking of pop operas um you are building your own pop opera and you're taking your live show to lollapalooza yes tell me about that creatively and then kyle i want to know from you when you're the difference of an artist doing a show on their normal tour versus the festival what what what logistically goes into that so for you valencia creatively what are you thinking differently for lalapalooza and don't know spoilers but just in terms of the creative process or spoilers if you want but um no um i um okay let me let me think about how to answer this.

52:48So as, as I'm putting out all these singles, I'm that I'm like, just discovering myself quite literally, like before everyone's eyes, like I haven't had this character developed for a while or anything. So I'm, I'm, I'm discovering who, who, who this is. And with every video, I'm like, and every song, I'm slowly starting to even get inspired about like album territory and so what i'm doing now is figuring out how to implement um little the storyline and create the storyline yeah so that when you look back you can see the birth of you know this whatever character i end up coming up with for the album yeah um whatever character whatever um but yeah again my ideas are quite like I'm very whimsical and like I I have a lot of crazy things that I really want to do and again it costs so much so I mean yeah it's it's that's I know I keep saying it but that's really just it like I'm just trying to figure out how to make my wildest dreams come true with the you know little exposure that I have you know we talked about this yesterday because um me and

54:17Justin Tranter:Blanthia wrote together yesterday that's my camera we wrote together yesterday it was amazing um I played the stage that you're playing at Lollapalooza I played it in 2010 I'm so honored it was a pretty iconic life changing moment for me and that stage the BMI stage at Lollapalooza has like changed a lot of people's lives so I can't wait to see what it does for you it's a really special stage it's really cool just like knowing that lore and getting to go on that same stage knowing that you did all that crazy shit on my own. It's so cool. You are going to possess me through the stage. Yes. Many people were injured.

55:07Justin Tranter:Many, lots of insurance policies went through the roof. I'm not kidding. You can look it up. Gaga came to our set unannounced. We didn't know she was coming and she stage dove off of it, which at the peak of her fame, this is 2010. So many, we got lots of press for it, but her manager at the time was like, Amazing press moment. Thank you. However, our insurance policies just doubled. I was like, it wasn't even her show. She was just partying. She was partying at 4 p.m. Why does that affect? I don't know. That's a more year. So now, as a manager, I'm worried that an artist is going to ruin their insurance policies.

55:48Justin Tranter:Yes, please don't do that. How do you think about a festival gig versus a normal gig? I think this one's interesting because we've only done shows like in just sort of little venues where like she goes on at 10 p.m. and you're like in an enclosed space. Controlled. It gets controlled. And I think we've kind of started talking about the logistics. Controlled, I'm sorry. I'm thinking about that like girl who fell on stage. That's true. Some girl on the first show of this tour just fell on stage. Fell onto stage? On to the stage. On my small, tiny stage. She was at my feet. A star, a legend. Poor girl, yeah.

56:34Rock and roll. There you go, it's punk. But, yeah, I mean, we've started talking about the logistics of this one and the creative, and there's definitely things that we'll have to adjust because it is going to be sort of an iteration of the super elastic pop opera show. It's just evolving. It's evolving and morphing. And so, and then, you know, again, she's playing outside like at 1 p.m. in daylight. So there's a lot of things that were involved in the original show that will just have to be tweaked, but will probably become cooler and more interesting and greater because of that.

57:12Justin Tranter:I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I don't know if you've spent much time in Chicago, but Lollapalooza is so special because it's one of the rare festivals that are like in the heart of the city. so you actually can like it's not like Coachella where you are stranded. It's like you can just go to a really nice restaurant and when I say nice I don't mean expensive unless that's your vibe but as we've learned from this conversation she needs money. I was just going to say. But it's like the whole city is right there. It's a really special festival. It's really really cool. I think there's something really cool too about someone like you in a full Valencia or dot look in the daylight.

57:57Broad fucking daylight, honey. That's so fucked up and so wrong that it's just going to be so amazing. Yeah. And those fans that are going to be there,

58:07Justin Tranter:they don't fucking care that it's broad daylight. They're going to be thrilled. Yeah. Yeah, because this will, I'm like, this will be my first time wearing the wig. The wig. On a festival stage. It's not a wig. Look out for the not a wig, everybody. Get excited. Okay, so to end every episode, we play a game called Gag or Drag. You both speak the lingo, so I don't have to explain it to you, but for anyone who's watching this for the first time, gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it, okay? So, gag or drag, rebranding so hard people think you're a different person. Gag. I would say gag, too.

58:50total gag yeah what the hell great

58:53Justin Tranter:gag or drag being called too theatrical for the mainstream music business gag being called too theatrical yeah you love it cause fuck that oh okay I was like hearing that yeah okay gag yeah no I mean I was hearing what you were hearing too but I like that you flipped it you're like you know call me too theatrical yeah I'm too much of everything girl like theater's just the tip this is just the tip yeah I was hearing it more like she's just too theatrical I'm like fuck you Yeah, but even if, yeah, gag. Gag people hating me. There you go. Yeah. Okay, gag. Gah? Industry gatekeepers showing up after it's already working.

59:31Justin Tranter:Drag. Wait, one more time? Industry gatekeepers showing up after it's. Like after something's already, it's already killing it. Oh, fucking fuck off. Yeah, fuck off. Yeah, drag. Yeah, drag. Yeah, okay, great. Ooh, I didn't, I somehow missed this one. I pre-read these, Morgan. I really like this. gag or drag pronouns in your bio changing how people hear your music whoa your sister's deep over there honey changing how people view your music drag as in like i wouldn't want people to see my pronouns in my bio and then not like my music yep um is that is that what that means i personally i think it's a gag because it is it's the right people finding your music and connecting with it and then realizing that like especially we so valencia and i have had some conversations about understanding like who they are and valencia has been leading with they them pronouns and we went to a show chrissy chlopeka shout out but But there were so many people who were running up to Valencia.

1:00:43And it was like queer people, trans people, non-binary people being like, are you Valencia Grace? I know you are. Like, what you're doing, putting out queer music, I'm like really connecting with. So I think it's a gag for the queer community. But also a drag if people are... If it's negative. I see what you're saying. Totally. But totally gag because it's like, yeah, bitch, I am a day then. Yeah, and you like my music. How about that? You know? then oh yeah people who like have an issue with that they're like well funk I guess

1:01:15Justin Tranter:this one we've already addressed but I'm going to say it again because you love it so deeply gag or drag Shrek the musical gag

1:01:24yes

1:01:26Justin Tranter:that will definitely be like the what do you call it the teaser the gluck gluck gluck that'll make sure people watch the episode and it'll get people sending you Venmos Yeah.

1:01:40Justin Tranter:Gag or drag.

1:01:44Justin Tranter:Gag or drag men who are blonde as adults. You are the biggest fucking bitch I've ever met. I'm just kidding. I really love it. I think you look so hot. First of all, I was born a blonde, with white hair. Yes you were. What'd you say? I said yes you were Born Born a blonde I can relate to you on this moment I was platinum until I was about 33 Platinum, not even blonde, platinum And Darian Darling Makeup artist, visionary Who's sitting right here Darian is still upset with me That I no longer bleach my hair She still thinks I've betrayed her We were like a duo We looked amazing Yeah. And so, but I feel once, well, first of all, once I saw the silver come in.

1:02:40Justin Tranter:I love silver. I was like, all right, I'm just not going to deal with it. Yeah. Also, my hair is proudly thinning. I love getting old. I'm not going to fucking touch anything. I'm going to let myself get as old as possible. Visually, emotionally, run down. But also, I do have the feeling of like, there's like this thing. You're still way younger than me. This thing of like people who used to be rock stars who no longer are. Right. Even though I'm a rock star in my own world, I'm not a rock star on stage. Anyone who used to be a rock star who's still bleaching their hair makes me want to do a 5150.

1:03:15Justin Tranter:So I just can't do that for myself. This was a 5150. But, you know, yeah. I honestly thought I would never do it again because I went to pitch black hair, essentially. And I just, yeah, I didn't want to touch my hair. But I was just like, fuck it. Let me bleach a sliver of my eyebrow and put some skunk in my hair. And then I'll turn 30 and then I'll stop. What I like the most about this is that a lot of times our gag or drag questions end up not being rapid fire. And I like that Morgan insulting you via gag or drag question ended up being our most discussed topic. Gag or drag, your artist answering a FaceTime meeting painted completely green without warning.

1:04:00Oh my god, Morgan!

1:04:04Justin Tranter:She knows too much Oh my god, because I was Shrek I was She literally went on TikTok Live painted herself green and performed the whole Shrek the musical I'm shaving my face It must have been before a Zoom call or something She FaceTimes me and she's just fucking green And I'm like, girl Oh my god It was really fun I mean it sounds very fun It was a gag Was there an actual meeting After the face I obviously had a free day

1:04:45Justin Tranter:Gag or drag Dressing for the lore instead of practicality Gag Of course I literally wanted to throw up putting this on And that's how you know it's good Yeah Now I'm comfortable but like oh my god when you're like cold trying to get dressed and then the thought of putting on a wig. But then you're like, once you put it on and you relax into it, then it's iconic. And the wig does make you warm. Yeah. Yeah. Gag or drag making art that would have scared your younger self? Gag. Gag, yeah. Yeah, complete gag, yeah. I mean, I think about that even for myself as a pop songwriter. You know, not every day do I get to work with people as experimental and fabulous as you are a lot of it's super down the middle, which I'm very grateful for because it provides for me and my whole family.

1:05:33Justin Tranter:So no shade for down the middle pop. But it would have terrified my younger self. My two different versions of my younger self. The theater kid would have been like, pop music, you're disgusting. You're a sellout. And then the glam punk version of me would have been like, pop music, you're disgusting. You're a sellout. So even when I make pop songs, it scares my younger self. And I think that that's a good thing. Gag or drag trans rights? Gag. Imagine if you were like, actually, I came here. I came here today. I don't really know about that one. I feel uncomfortable. Can we do the next one? No comment.

1:06:08No comment.

1:06:10Justin Tranter:No comment. No comment. I literally arrived in the Protect the Dolls t-shirt. Last question is, what would you say, what advice would you both give from your different perspectives? So what advice would you give to a young artist on how to better collaborate with their manager? and what advice would you give to a young manager on how to better collaborate with their artists or actually vice versa? What would you tell a manager to do better or what would you tell an artist to do better? Long story, not short. People who are really desperate to have a manager but don't understand what that dynamic means or people who are desperate to be a manager and don't understand what that means.

1:06:48Justin Tranter:What is some advice that you two have learned in your both short, exciting careers that you think could help other people? I think on my end as a manager I think it's still something that I'm figuring out like what that dynamic I love that honesty that's awesome is supposed to look like yeah and I think it also will always sort of differ depending on clients but I think the best advice that I could offer really is is kind of the way that we started to work together was really actually like a slow burn and like really getting to know each other. I think not jumping in immediately is, I don't know.

1:07:32It's like a relationship. It's like you don't want to like fucking go right in right away. And like.

1:07:36Justin Tranter:You don't want a U-Haul time to drag Morgan. Yeah. You don't want a U-Haul over here. Clocky tuna tartare, Morgan. Fucking lesbian. I think.

1:07:50Keep going. Fucking. Yeah. what else but kiss me i i think i i think also even just what we were talking about about being scared like hell i'm scared all the damn time and like to be completely honest i mean it is a scary gig and i think you know you just always want to do the best you can for these artists and also yourself and it's fucking terrifying like it's so scary but you just kind of have to bulldoze through it but in terms of advice I would just say get to know the fucking artist yeah first and um just make sure you actually are clicking properly before you start working together absolutely what i would say is to the managers that if you are not one thousand million percent passionate about the artist do give them the grace to go and find someone who is because then you are unfortunately going to waste each other's time and you need to what I've learned is that the only times that it really starts to work is when the people around you and who you put as your team are like as invested in it as you are and you have to think or I at least I think about Valencia Grace not anymore being just me but like we are we are all Valencia Grace.

1:09:36Justin Tranter:Yeah. And it's so it's like if you as a manager are ready to take on the role of like being an artist or like helping this artist out. Yeah. And then. And then like, yeah, there's any sliver of doubt. Don't do it. Yeah. Don't do it. And then for artists, I would say my biggest piece of advice is to trust your intuition. And also something that like really helped me with you was like asking around and like asking other people like, because when I first met them both, Wendy was, you know, taking the lead in the conversation and I was getting to know her and I knew that I would be working with Kyle but I decided or I couldn't work out how to get through to him and so I then, you know, went to someone's show and then bumped into some people and I, oh, you're talking to, yeah, yeah, I'm talking to Kyle.

1:10:46He's really great. I'm like, okay, tell me about him. Like what's so great about him because I like don't, I can't really tell. I ask myself that too.

1:10:54Justin Tranter:I'm not getting the greatness vibe. I just didn't get to speak to him. And so then... Also, shout out Angela Barkin, who was who you spoke to. I love her to death, and that's who told you all this stuff. Absolutely. And yeah, she told me to have some one-on-one time with Kyle, and I really just trusted my intuition, really. I just could see. Like, the same way that you see a star, You're like, you're going to be a star. Like, I feel that way about him. Yeah. And I didn't honestly know that you could have, like, such talented management. Wow. So I think you just have to trust your intuition. But again, it's the manager's job to not commit if they're not 100 % passionate.

1:11:41Justin Tranter:I really love that point a lot because especially in our current world where everything moves so fucking fast and a manager might go after an artist, a writer, a producer because one thing is going viral. Right. But we all know that, unfortunately, virality is not a business plan. So if you're not obsessed with that artist, writer, producer, whatever they do, if when that virality falls off, if you aren't obsessed with the art that they're making, you're not going to do your job well. Because you were just showing up because something was exciting. But now something might not be exciting in four months.

1:12:15Justin Tranter:And if you aren't obsessed with us, get the fuck away. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, also listen to their ideas because it was like working with, before we worked together, you did the set list. And I was like, wow, you created these different acts. That really inspired me. The reason that the show has props and shit is because you fucking told me I could do that. And so once you realize, oh, wow, I'm actually getting something from working with you. I'm learning or I'm being told stuff that no one's ever told me before. and I really just got the feeling with him like, oh my goodness, I feel like no one else knows it the way that you do.

1:12:56Justin Tranter:What I love about that too is like before you were officially working together, you presented ideas that you actually liked. Yeah. That's a lot of times I've done it where you get into management relationships and there hasn't even really been business ideas presented or creative ideas presented. It's just all this sort of very vague, wishy-washy conversation and you're desperate so you don't know. So the fact that there was actual ideas that you liked before you worked together is something I think a lot of people can learn from. That's amazing. It wasn't even just like, I'm passionate about you and I think that whatever, whatever.

1:13:28It was, here is the set list I think you should perform. I'm going to break it down and this is why these songs are like this.

1:13:36Justin Tranter:And you liked it. Yeah, and then also just, you're so good. This isn't your question, but like an advice for like, just artists and management teams because, like, I swear to God, no one thinks like you. And, like, it's so important to tell as many people. But, like, you are so good with, like, fan engagement and interaction and just coming up with little fun things to give the fans or just bring them into the world. I was never thinking about shit like that. Well, you know what I think is really important? And actually, CJ, Baron said this about you. is that it's so rare to have a manager who is the fan base.

1:14:24Justin Tranter:So many times it's, you know, especially specifically with pop, pop coming from the feminine point of view, that it's managed by an A &R by old straight men. And old straight men, for the most part, are never going to buy a ticket to your show, and we don't need them to. because the girls, gays and theys are going to buy a ticket to your show. So to have a manager who is actually the demographic you're trying to sell your music to. Yeah, that's also pretty lucky. It's very fucking rare. The amount of times that I have 60-year-old straight men telling me what a 19-year-old girl should be singing about.

1:15:05Justin Tranter:I'm like, I don't even tell her what to sing about. If the artist isn't bringing it herself, I make sure there's another young woman in the room because that's who the fucking audience is. Not you, grandpa. So it's, yes, you're really fucking good at your job and you're connecting with your artist, but it's also like how smart to have a manager that's the actual demographic you're trying to engage with. And one of the first things he said to me was like, I really, really want to find my pop diva. My pop girly, he said. My pop girly. Your pop demmy. I really put that out into the universe. Yeah, I was like, I really hope I can be that for you.

1:15:43It really is just so special that we found each other. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Very lucky.

1:15:53Justin Tranter:That was Unfamous, motherfuckers. Round of applause for Valencia and Kyle. Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.