When "Pushing Through" Stops Working: Rainbow Kitten Surprise on Reinvention

24:55Justin Tranter:I didn't know it was going to be a good yo or a bad yo. I was like, what follows the yo? They were, what is yo? Sick. Okay. Yeah. And so we, yeah. And that was the making of it. But as far as, and we've been playing that song, obviously, for like 13, 14 years or whatever. Yeah, cool. You know, and it's a tough one to play sometimes because it's a little bit slower than some of our other songs that have a lot of movement in it. We used to do movement around that song, but it was like, it was not consistent necessarily. And sometimes we'd just be like, well not really feeling this one tonight and then Kat kind of saw that and was like no no no there's something there you just gotta some commitment to the movement some confidence in the movement and play it up it's just like you're a rock star kind of thing like to every one of the band that's Kat's kind of approach is just like dude like whatever you're gonna do all eyes are on you so you better just do it you know Yeah, it was funny because when I first started with them, I got them in a circle and I was like, okay, we're just going to like groove our bodies and feel.

26:11And I remember Ethan grabbing his guitar. I was like, you don't need your guitar. He's like, oh, I do. He's like, this is my emotional support instrument. And I was like, oh, this is so sweet. Like it would be like me playing an instrument for the first time. Like this is such a unique experience. And I remember with Devil, this is one of the first songs I danced to as well when I discovered their music. So I had this like kind of, Wow, cool. It has this very sensual kind of push and pull. And they were kind of tapping into it. And I was like, let's go further. And Boz was like, I don't have an instrument.

26:41What do I do? And I feel like movement direction isn't just about guiding direction. It's about guiding confidence. You are capable of doing this. You look amazing. You're hot. Let's just do what you do. And with Devil, it was really, what story do we want to tell? And Ethan kind of starts with this highlight on him. So it was this cat and mouse moment between Bozzy and Ella. And it was like, how do we circle around this light over Ethan and move them to different sides of the stage? Because the audience gets stuck seeing you where you're at. So I had the most fun seeing that one. I think that one came the farthest for me.

27:18Justin Tranter:What I love so much, just reminding me of my band days, and there are like certain songs, whether it's the tempo, or whatever it might be, where like, you can tell that like everyone on stage just oddly feels uncomfortable. And it doesn't matter how great the fucking song is. And it might, without you there to collaborate, you might be like, I'll take the song out of the set. For some reason, we just don't feel confident in it because of the movement, because of the tempo, because of how our bodies feel. And then like, you might not be playing a fan favorite because your body is uncomfortable in it.

27:54Justin Tranter:and that's a really cool thing. I think Kat calls it the shrimp. When you kind of like, you bend over a little bit and you get all in your feelings. You know what I mean? You get emotional. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like, and that's been a huge thing for me is just like posture. Like, what am I signaling? You know what I mean? And we talk about that a lot. Like, what are you sending out to the world? Yeah. And then, because that's what you're going to get back, right? you're going to see that reflected and mirrored. And so it's like, if you want, if you want the confidence, you have to give the confidence and then it's given back to you in the way that people like adore it or in the way that people are like, do more of what you do for us.

28:37Thank you.

28:38Justin Tranter:Yeah, completely. Moment on stage in 2022 at Red Rocks when your body said, fuck this. Yeah. Yeah. I always struggle with the way to tell that story. Cause I feel like there's a lot of other stories that get wrapped up into it as well um i think you know like i don't know i don't know it's i i i think i think it's like maybe a trauma response and also you know like um mentally just very sort of unwell and not in a good place um very dark place very um feeling like uh there was just a point where i was just like I can power through, I can power through with using whatever tools or things are at my means in order to just block everything that I'm feeling and just keep performing in this way.

29:29I remember that night, I remember I just, my body, I kept playing the thing and my body would just shut down sort of thing. And I would turn to the audience and I'd take a bow. And I did that maybe five, six times. I don't know. And I thought, wow, this is really strange. Even for me these days, everything was strange in those days but like even for me I was like this is but I was so grateful I just couldn't even I and I felt like a I felt like I was dying I felt like I was going to you know and um and when I did hit the deck I was like oh this whole time I was worried about dying I was worried about my friends dying I was worried about all of these things surrounding death and the whole time it's been me and maybe it's not me me but it's a it's what how i perceive myself and how i've carried myself and and and my patterns of action and behavior and thought all of which need to change that's me looking back on it now back then it was just like whoa i'm so grateful if this is the end i'm so grateful for everything i can't ask for more wow um and then that was a long road to recovery yeah you know it took years uh in and out of any kind of thing you can imagine you know uh hospitals and and um and and residential facilities and all that you know where they cut the cords on your sweatpants so that people don't accidentally not accidentally or people don't do stuff you know what i mean it's like they're some of them are pretty rough and tumble But, you know, you find moments of kindness and connection with humans in that stuff.

31:10And I learned a little bit each time until I was like, oh, but I didn't learn it well enough because I fell right back through all the cracks. I fell right back through the cracks in the system and the cracks in my own mind. And I ended up in a hellscape and I took everybody around there with me and they could all feel it, too. and you know i mean like and like i was staying with my manager don at the time who is always just like in times of trouble it's just been like all right just come to my house wow you can sleep in you can sleep in this room downstairs and like wow fed me and like laundry like just like all the things that i was i was not capable of taking care of myself very very well at the time and i they were just like they just took care of me him and his wife elaine you know they're just i don't know that had been so awesome um and um you know nobody else would have done it at that time you know and so yeah I don't know we came out on the other side and how do you how do you know when

32:10Justin Tranter:you know what because it is you know you're saying that like when when you would fall down to those dark depths and you'd bring everybody with you and I'm assuming that means your collaborators as well And how do you, how do you, after going through all the different treatments and how do you know for yourself, right? Again, hoping people are listening to this to learn as long as you're okay with sharing. Like, how do you know for yourself when you're like, all right, I'm ready to do this again? I think I've, recovery is always a constant state, but like, how do you know when you're, when you're ready to do it again?

32:45Justin Tranter:Hello, my little unfamous friends. so um the thing about the algorithm little miss algorithm is that she um doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it so if you follow this podcast what do the old school youtubers say like subscribe and follow um if you do that for me then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. Well, they put me on bipolar. They put me on meds for my bipolar one. I was like, don't ever take me off of that.

33:30After two days of it, I was like, oh, this is, I'm starting to get the way like neurotypical people might view the world and exist in it. Like this is way easier than what I was doing in the past. But like that gave me, you know, like, you know, Well, even in my depths, I was still reaching out for other people who were struggling harder than I was. And reaching forward to people who were struggling less. You know what I mean? Like, ooh, I want to be part of that, but I have been part of this. And I want to bring them with me, but ultimately you can't. You know what I mean? All you can do is like be yourself and try to exist in wellness.

34:12and for me, I didn't know whether I was ready to be back or not. And to be honest, like my anxiety was through the roof around like even practicing to go on tour again. I was like, man, yeah, no, because we had this thing and we had to bring a show down in Orlando and I was in the middle of treatment because I spiraled out. I had a break, you know, what we call a psychotic break and people get confused about what that language means. I'm like here to clear it up. Yeah, please, because I actually don't know. Well, to me, like this is how I understand it, right? This is how I understand what a psychotic break is, is most people, if you look at a faucet, it has hot, cold, and it drips out, and then it comes, you know what I mean?

34:57And you can adjust how much that faucet pours and what it pours, right? The difference between normally functioning brain and a psychotic brain, like one that's in psychosis, is it's like both of those, and then the faucet's just ripped out and water's just gushing and gushing, and you can't stop it.

35:18Justin Tranter:Yeah. And everything that you think starts to become what your reality is. And you might see that manifested or feel it manifested or all of the above or hear it or, you know what I mean? Wow. And so for me, it was very common to like see things and see words writing, but I existed in that state. I was there at Red Rocks 2022. Like I'm seeing things and my body's moving in strange ways that I don't feel like I can control, you know? And so, but I existed in it for years and it just, it had become so, but the other thing that's so scary about it is you get this kind of thing of like, oh, I can't talk about what's going on with me because otherwise these entities or these things beyond me will hurt me or hurt those I love.

36:00Even more real. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? And she's just like, okay, well, ultimately it's just going to be like this forever. So I might as well settle in.

36:07Justin Tranter:Wow. Wow. How as a, first and foremost, as a partner, as love of, love of, love of her life, how are you processing all of this? I've been on my, my own journey of rock bottom goes further than you think it does. and somehow around the same time I was also going through my own things where I was diagnosed bipolar 2, ADHD, got on meds, got off meds, was struggling with addiction, I was hitting the floor in my own way. And as her partner, we have this, our primary agreement is sobriety. Like we stay sober and we ask for help. We have, I mean, she has an amazing wellness team that has taken me on for wellness as well.

37:04So if there's moments, not just her wellness team, her managers, her tour manager, her friends, like the band, everyone is like on the same page. So as her partner, I don't feel alone. Like if we need support, we know where to go. And it's really just, we are so privileged to have that kind of care. It's, you know, it costs money. It's expensive to have that. And we're so lucky. So many people are struggling without help and the financial ability to get the help that they need. So just leaning into that and just knowing that, you know, we stay open, we stay kind. You name me, I'm here. If I don't have capacity, I have to name that and call who we know to call.

37:43Yeah. But, yeah, we just, we really keep therapy and that at the forefront as well, which is helpful.

37:50Justin Tranter:I'm almost five months sober myself. Congrats. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How's it feel? Fucking awesome. Isn't it amazing? The first six weeks were so boring. I was so flatlined. I was so flatlined. I couldn't find joy in anything. But the last couple months have been amazing. Yeah. Congrats. It's kind of embarrassing to say the hardest part was being bored. Like all these horror stories. And for me, it was just like, can I be this board or am I going to break? And I got through it. I mean, still getting through it. I have to keep getting through it. Okay. So then my, my follow-up question on that is as collaborators who have both gone through your own shit, how do you decide, okay, it's, let's get back to work together, knowing that like you might be on thin ice.

38:58I'm giggling in my head because like I'm thinking about our hyper fixations and how different they are like she's like your hyper fixation terrifies me I'm unmedicated so I I'm really just like kind of getting through it how I do and yep I mean I think there's so much power to medication um it's just not for me right now but it is finding each other because like sometimes I'll be hyper fixated and it's like we're ready to kind of move in a direction together and it's like i can't stop or she needs to stop and we kind of have code words don't we where it's like we're just we know when to stop and start yeah are you i'm just like i'm trying to remember what the

39:38Justin Tranter:question is you know uh just sort of like when how do you know um after going through something so intense, how do you know I need to get back to work? Well, you know, I mean, there's obviously bills. That's a very real fucking answer. And there's bills that you didn't even know you had because you just went through the thing you didn't know you were going to have to go through. You know what I mean? It's just like, oh, I got to pay for that too. You know? But there are, yeah, like, you know, it's like what we found I think is like yeah we do have some co-words we go all done we go we go like can we put a pin in this we halt I love halt dramatic love halt yeah you know so much of the artist myth is that we need to be tortured to make art or we need to be fucked up to make art.

40:57Justin Tranter:And I suffered with that too. In my band days especially, we made all of the art drunk. And now as someone who's gone on to write many global pop smashes, not drunk. Yeah. I'm like very interesting, this myth of being depressed, being tortured, being intoxicated. That's how you become a great genius. And I think the three of us now know that that's not true. But did any of those thoughts ever haunt you? That's just a myth of self-medication. You know what I'm saying? Like you give yourself any reason to take another one. You know what I mean? To have another one. you know what I mean just a little bit just a little you know what I mean and that's the thing about sobriety is just like just put a pin in that you know what I mean it's like we got to figure out another way yeah uh I that's such a succinct fucking awesome answer it's so true any excuse to have another one it's so real yeah and it's just believing as artists humans first artists we're not broken we're like the glue that pulls things back together we're not some broken piece of society.

42:12Actually, I think humanity is called to art to heal, right? It is part of it. So getting to know that about yourself through sobriety, like, oh, I'm not broken. I don't need this to actually be artistic. And like, actually what, what calls us back in, I think a lot of the time is we love what we do. Like it's never a chore. I, I try to never call what I do my work. it's not my job it's my passion and I'm so lucky to make money doing it and do it with people that I love um you know not just the whole band the whole team like these are really incredible people so yeah just recircling uh that that focus of the mind where it's like oh I'm not broken like I actually can do this because I care about it yeah you know no it's I think it is such a

43:02Justin Tranter:the world is called to art to heal I think is such a a real thing I finished a book this morning and I was just like sobbing in the nicest way possible and it's just like to to think that like art gets to do that for people is so so special um also sorry I just have to share the the excuse to have another Jimmy and I've worked together for like 20 years and the amount of times like well no it's gonna be a really stressful meet and greet can you go get me a drink or like the endless excuses of like, why do I need to have another, to have another? That was like a really, that was beautiful. Thank you.

43:39Justin Tranter:Learning so much about myself from this conversation. Thank you. Like, God damn, any excuse, I would make them all something. Discomfort every time. Every time. Trying to avoid it, yeah. Yeah. Okay, to change topics, because I'm getting emotional now. Sorry about that. Don't be. What, this is a question I ask everybody. what is the song or for you it can be a piece of choreography that ruined your life what song did you hear what dance did you see or whatever it is music video where you were like okay i make music now um oh oh um definitely definitely um i mean anything off of this record i feel like i mentioned last night but um was it uh last friday night is it tgif katie yes katie yeah that's that was it that was the production on it and like in the vocals and the and the synths and and the saxo i mean like all of it i was just like that is music like that is like that's smart music like wow oh i love like it's so tight and you know just like i would have never powerful poppy yeah Guess that being a fan of your band would have never thought.

44:56I was just, what's running in my brain right now. And I'm like, oh man, that's good. That's good. It's really good. Yes. Yes.

45:02Justin Tranter:Katie is a friend of mine and she's been on the podcast. So, and she is a genius songwriter and deserves more shout outs. That's, I love that. And mover. Like she's just star. Pop star. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about all of the music videos. I stayed up late and snuck out of my bed to watch as a kid. That inspired me to want to be a choreographer. But what's coming to mind the most recently in this new part of myself is The Actor by Alt-J. I don't know this. It is the most nuts music video. I'm just obsessed with Alt-J. They were like the pipeline actually into RKS for me. I was listening to Alt-J obsessively before I found RKS.

45:44And to find out that Ethan is such a big Alt-J fan as well, I was like, this makes so much sense. I love that record. But this video, it's about addiction. This dancer walks into this room to this person who's, like, passed out on the floor. And it's, like, this tiny dancer. And then the person that's passed out is, like, double their size. And they just drag this body around. And it's, like, so, like, I don't know. Just something about it. Highly recommend. I've got to watch this video. It is so good. It is so, so good.

46:11Justin Tranter:Oh, I can't wait. Yeah. That sounds amazing. Life-changing. I know the band, but I don't think I've ever seen a video. I will check it out. the actor. The actor. Love it. Yeah. Okay, to end every episode we play a game. It's called gag or drag. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. Okay. Okay? And you can say meh if you're just not interested in the question. Okay. Morgan will be offended because these are her questions. I'll just make you talk more about why you feel that way. Okay, gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. Okay. Gag or drag dating someone who gives you professional notes.

46:49uh gag gag gag gag gag gag feels like this better be a gag yeah Morgan has just broken up

46:56Justin Tranter:I see that phone going face down my leg is crossed like let's go yeah okay gag or drag choreography that looks too obviously choreographed gag you know speak your art yeah yeah yeah yeah great gag or drag sharing your location with your partner yeah major gag yeah necessary i know i feel like they started it like like like like yo i mean i remember yo that's actually when it got serious was what was we shared your location and I had to make the choice. I had to make the choice, share until the end of the day or share indefinitely. I hit share indefinitely. That was it. This is real shit. That was the thing.

47:43Wow. That was the thing. And we didn't know each other that well at the time. It's the truth. But that was the thing. I was just like, I don't know why, but I always want you to know where I'm at. Gag.

47:56Justin Tranter:Oh my God, that's so cute. Okay, gag or drag, quote, artists make their best work when they're miserable. We kind of already went over this, but. Jack. Yeah, no, I'll tell you why. Because like the torture thing, it does produce certain results. Now, everything that you do is going to go through the pipeline of your subconscious, through your conscious brain and out through, you know what I mean? Like and out into creativity, you know what I mean? And so it's like if you're living tortured or you're being tortured or it's, you know what I mean? That's what you're going to get out. but like you can't say that that tops anything else that comes out of you.

48:35You know what I mean? Like it's like some people like that dark, like everything, and there's a season for everything. And the thing about being tortured is I think that it like shaves off probably literally years of your life and years of your actual creative like spark. Yeah. To do that because you're like maxing out a system. You're redlining it. You know what I mean? And anybody who knows like – You can't go at maximum capacity with anything all the time. It will burn out. You know what I mean? And then you're a firework. And you just pop and people say, oh, that's cool. And then they move on.

49:15You know what I mean?

49:16Justin Tranter:Great answer. Gag or drag. Oh, this is a long one, Morgan. Hold on. I'm going to get through it. Gag or drag. Straight people calling baby stuff gender neutral and then getting mad about pronoun. Drag. Drag it. done Morgan that was a great setup to just being annoyed about people who hate pronouns I'm so sick of it I also love when we hate pronouns we don't use pronouns and I'm like no yes you literally do I'm like just don't refer to me at all I'm just thinking of that Portlandia sketch we don't want to know the gender of the baby and you know that and you know that That's our favorite thing right now.

50:02Justin Tranter:And you know that. Gag or drag being friends with an ex?

50:11Literally impossible. Meh. Slash, you know what? No, I'm going to look at it in other people's lives, though. I'm not talking about mine, but like in other people's lives, I'm going to say drag because it just doesn't, so often it doesn't pan out. But they're all like, no, no, but we're different. I'm like, then all of us? No, you're not. We can social experiment this collectively and decide that you're in the wrong here, bud. Like, there's no way. There's no way that you go from dating right into being best friends with your ex without some kind of, like, major roadblock coming. And honestly, we're all in the car for that one.

50:50So please just save us the emotional energy expended. And move on.

50:57Justin Tranter:I am friends with many of my exes, but there's always like a two-year break. Same. Where you like, either you don't talk at all or you barely talk. I totally agree that like, wake up the next morning and no, we're just best friends. Everything's fine. That is, that is never going to happen. That is, I'm with you. But we all wanted it to happen at some point. Probably several times. We never learned. Completely. That's what your twenties are for. Gag or drag, changing the set list based on the city? Oh, gag. Gag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you got to throw every... Performing, everybody knows you just throw every single one of your cards at them every single night.

51:38You got to make it... Yeah, like if we have a song called Good Night Chicago, if we're ever playing Chicago, we play it. It's got to be last. You know what I mean? Like, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

51:50Justin Tranter:Yeah, I also... I'm a huge Tori Amos fan and she's been posting her set list for every show and we didn't get LA, the LA show did not get Cornflake Girl and seeing that she played it the show before and the show after I'm like what the fuck how? That's a message I'm a deep Tori fan I don't need just the hits, I'm okay with some deep album cuts I'm okay with some bonus tracks, with some B-sides for San Diego to get cornflake girl and not me, that's just not fair. San Diego, half of those people are Republicans. You gotta stick with me. San Diego catching straights, okay. Gag or drag, never go to bed angry.

52:40Justin Tranter:Gag.

52:43I cannot say meh. I have to be very careful with what I say next. This is what I feel. No, I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm going to say drag because sometimes you can't sort it out and sometimes you're too tired to sort it out. I thought gag was the positive. Gag was like the - Wait, did I say gag or did I say drag?

53:02Justin Tranter:I think I'm dragging. Yeah, she's dragging because she's saying sometimes you don't have time to sort it out before bed. Sometimes you don't have the right words, so you don't have the right thing. I can't. You know what I mean? I know, I know. I just need like, and I love you. I'm just, I'm very, I just need like, I'm still mad at you. I love you. I don't like you right now, but I still love you. No. I'm going to my room. You go to your room. I'm going to the bunnies. Going to the bunnies. Yeah. Yeah. Gag or drag your partner telling you to stop working and go home? Drag. I thought you both were going to say gag.

53:35Drag. Drag, drag, drag. That is where our fights begin. Yeah. We don't fight ever, but that is where our disagreements happen the most. I don't want to stop working. I don't want to stop working either. But sometimes it's like one wants to hang out and the other one wants to work. And we try to make that this kind of split hangout and work thing. But we hyper fixate too hard. And it just, yeah. We end up going home because it's like, well, now I can't do this anymore. So thanks. Thanks, you. You know what I mean? Thanks, you. Yeah. No, it's a gag. Gag. Gag or drag? I don't know what it is. It's gag.

54:13It's gag.

54:14Justin Tranter:It's drag. Okay. You dragged it. You both dragged it. You hated it. We dragged it out of that. Okay, last question. And I'm going to make it a little bit more specific than I normally do. What is one piece of advice that you would give to yourselves about collaborating with your life partner that you wish that you could give when you guys first started collaborating? and what's one piece of advice that you wish you could give to yourselves now? Shut the fuck up. Ask more questions. Remember everything they say. And whatever you do, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? It's crazy how much that works.

55:01It's just like, that's a golden ticket there, bud. Am I really that bossy? I feel like the - What bossy? Is that you? No, no, no, no, no. I mean, I mean, like I used to go into every room and feel like, oh, shit, like the only way this is going to go good is if I like exert as much like of myself or my control or whatever on it as possible. And I found someone who would let me do that, but then also correct it like, babe, it's not about you. I love who you are. I love talking about you. Just this moment, though, it's about me. Just this moment. and it's so few and far between because I just be talking.

55:42I'll throw out, like, I'm like, babe, look at this piece of gear. Look at this amp from 1956. This is going to be amazing. My gear guy just got it in. And they're like, I love that you love gear, but you have to also know that, like, I have things that I love as well, and I'd love to share them with you. And I don't love gear that much. I'm sorry. I'm trying so hard. I'm trying so hard. More than anyone else in my life. that you love it. Yeah, I know. I know. I love what you love.

56:12Justin Tranter:I think there's so much to learn from that. Me and my band members had to learn that in a different way where they're obsessed with gear and I'm obsessed with makeup and when friends of mine would visit on tour who were like my friends and we would just talk about makeup for hours on the bus and they'd be like, we're gonna fucking kill you and it's like, wait, this is my gear. I'm gonna be honest. We're selling more tickets because of this fucking makeup than your fucking paddle board. Absolutely. What's so funny is those are my two things. It's makeup and gear. It's both. It's both. And then Kaz.

56:49Justin Tranter:Yeah. So what is your, what is, I interrupted you, Kat. What is your piece of advice? Have fun. Just because your idea doesn't get chosen doesn't mean you're not chosen. Like, it's letting go and surrendering to process and love and yeah, just have fun with it. More fun. Love it. Yeah. Love it. That was amazing. Thank you both so much. Thank you.

57:18Justin Tranter:Hello, hello, everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say please follow and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday.