Yadim Carranza + Darian Darling | Building beauty culture from the underground

18:50Justin Tranter:Yeah. Well, and it's like, when you're doing, like, as a celebrity makeup artist, which you both do as well, you're this literally in someone's fucking face. Like that is such an intimate process that like, yeah, the person has to be very good, but you have to like that. Yeah. Yeah. And he's very fun and engaging. Hello, my little unfamous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, Little Miss Algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it. So if you follow this podcast, what do the old school YouTubers say? Like, subscribe and follow.

19:33Justin Tranter:If you do that for me, then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. Okay, so then like just this is actually not even for people watching. This is like for me. I'm just so curious. So then you get this job as what's international makeup designer, such a glamorous title. And then, so you say, I need new face charts. I want to hire this brilliant woman. And the brand came to me and said, we really would love you to do face charts.

20:09And I was like, I don't do face charts because I know my strengths and like, right. It's a whole other skill set. Putting makeup on a face chart is its own work, its own art. Like it's really an art form and you have to know the different texture, the way makeup lays on paper is very different i mean you really have to be a painter right really like an illustrator painter to do good face charts and i'm not that girl like i knew i wasn't that girl like i'm i could beat a face but it's very different on a canvas i got a flat canvas and i just like there was no other person to suggest other than i was like i know the perfect person

20:44Justin Tranter:for this what how beautiful of like you going into mac pro and you're like star struck by the face chart designer who was not getting paid for it but you're starstruck by her she's a cunt to you but then you become then you become friends i don't think i was that but let's just say you were because it's a better story okay great thank you and so then so then but that how beautiful then you guys are friends now so when you got her the job at dior how long have you been friends at this point uh i was already worked we had already lived together i left pat in 2010 and when did you guys meet 2005 gotcha so five years later like after like what a beautiful full circle moment of like no you're actually going to get credit and paid for this amazing skill that you have what how did you develop a skill because obviously you're great at putting makeup on someone's face but how did you was it just at mac by just doing no i mean i've always been drawing and that was like my favorite thing to do as a kid and i you know didn't have a lot of friends so i spent most to the time, either looking at myself in the mirror or drawing.

21:46Or dressing up as Madonna. Or dressing up as Madonna, right. Perfecting Madonna makeup on myself all day. Yeah. So I just always loved art class. That was my favorite class. So I was always drawing and painting and using different things. And so when I got hired at MAC, and that was a requirement to do face charts, I just sort of excelled at that. Darian has this way of adding shadow and shading to a flat piece of paper that literally brings a face to life. It pops out at you. It's like crazy. I've never seen anything like that.

22:18Justin Tranter:Well, and your guys is, because that's 2010 now. That's longer than I remember. So it's 15 years of you guys working on projects like this. Has there ever been like, what was like one of your favorite moments? Like the biggest, like, oh, we really slayed. And two-part question, what was like, was there ever like a, you weren't seen eye to eye? No. Really? I don't think so. Well, you know, because then we had like a very, you know, every time you would get a new contract, it was like, Maybelline, you brought me in as a face chart. I mean, for Maybelline, not only did I bring her in as a face chart artist, she actually designed a new template for Maybelline that the company, which Maybelline, if anyone doesn't know, is the like largest volume mass makeup brand in the world.

23:00It's part of L 'Oreal. It's like, it's such a huge brand. So for Darian to have the opportunity to design the face chart template, that's going to be used globally for the biggest makeup brand in the world is like a big deal. Pretty fierce. Pretty fucking fierce. Yeah. And they use that. I mean, I don't know if they still use it. I'm sure they still use it. At Nauseam, they used it everywhere.

23:18Justin Tranter:Also, which I think is so beautiful. And as someone who gets interviewed a lot and everyone just endlessly asks me about being a huge homosexual, I don't want to talk about that too much with you guys, but I do just want to point out in this world that is oddly just so upset with trans people for no real reason that like people don't even realize like the face chart template for the largest makeup company in the world was designed by a trans woman. Like a trans woman like influencing and a homosexual, the two of you working together, influencing beauty for cis women all over the planet. This isn't new.

24:00Justin Tranter:It's never, it's not new. This has been as old as humans have been here. trans people have always influenced the art, have always influenced cis society and culture and beauty and art. I mean, it's just what it is. It's fabulous. It's really fabulous. So there was never a moment where you guys disagreed, which is fabulous and amazing. We never disagreed, but obviously we worked together in designing the looks often. Like, for example, when I was working, when I had my contract with Maybelline, Maybelline sponsored New York Fashion Week at the time. and so a lot of the shows that were done at New York Fashion Week were sponsored by Maybelline and so Darian, I would have Darian come to the show and work on the show with me so she'd see, yeah.

24:42Yeah, that, I mean, that was, when you got the gig and the face chart was one separate thing but you're like, bitch, I need you on my team backstage and I was like, oh, I don't really want, stop doing makeup because I just like, I don't know, I did all that when I was at MAC and like assisting other makeup artists and whatnot. And it's just like the experience wasn't great for me backstage. And I think there was a lot of like transphobia that was like happening. Yeah, I'm sure. There were some makeup artists that were really lovely to work with backstage. But then like the people in charge of like booking me for shows too were kind of, there's some, I think some shade.

25:23And I just wasn't really like a positive experience. and then so I basically like stopped doing makeup and you were like no I need you on my team this and that and thank god you did because otherwise I wouldn't be here now because and it was so great to have that experience with someone that I love so much and respect so much and know so well to be in that kind of environment and not feel like you're a big because half the time you would leave a show and be like oh I'm the worst makeup artist I'm like the biggest piece of shit because the key makeup artists are just like terror. Yeah, absolutely.

26:00So like, even with you, if like there needed to be something tweaked, you'd be like, oh, maybe just like add a little more to that or, oh, that looks great. Or just a little more zhuzhy here. And it wasn't like, what are you doing here? What are you doing here? This is terrible. This is terrible. Wipe it all off. Wipe it all off. So having that kind of positive outlook on that kind of experience, it really like got me like, oh, maybe I should do makeup again. Yeah. But I sort of lost my confidence completely. I feel like there was a time right before that where I remember you told me, like, I don't think I want to do makeup anymore.

26:32Like, you were kind of really over it. I think it was a number of things. I think it was working at MAC for so long in that environment, which is an absolute blessing, but can also kind of make you a little jaded after a while, you know? I think it was also, like you said, rampant transphobia. Totally. And I talk about this a lot with, you know, our mutual friend, Nikki Munray, who's, you know, also trans and a makeup artist. and I think the industry pretends to be so inclusive and cool and like under you know what I mean and all that and celebrates and allyship but like in actuality I mean I think it's starting to inch its way to a better place but like really for a long time it wasn't and like Nikki would often tell me and I'm sure you and please let us know if you experience this as well but Nikki would often tell me um I feel like people want me at their parties and they want to show me off but they don't want to book me right right because they're scared of what the client's gonna think or what the designer is going to think.

27:25They're scared to be seen with them. And I'm like, that's just so awful.

27:30Justin Tranter:I see it all the time in the music business where the music business wants to celebrate, oh, look, so-and-so is a star now. And it's like, but you guys, you're really not, you're not doing the numbers. So there's like three openly gay pop stars and now we all have to celebrate amongst the, there's 3 ,000 pop stars in the last 20 years and three of them are gay and you think they'll be slayed. And we ate that. It's fucking exhausting. So when you guys are both building beauty, trans woman, queer person, you're both literally like architects of beauty. And yet this society endlessly is like, why are men talking about makeup?

28:14Justin Tranter:And like, why do trans people even exist? like how does it feel to like be architects of it but also like it's technically not supposed to be for you as far as like mainstream society is concerned oh god such a good question um i mean i think i'll start i think i think that this narrative that this technically is not supposed to be for you is a lie i think that's the lie and i think i think these narratives and, you know, this misogynist, patriarchal, oppressive system that we live and work under and that we'll continue, unfortunately, to live and work under for the foreseeable future. I think that narrative is actually the lie.

29:03And the truth is that we get to write our own narratives. And one of the things that I find so fulfilling and compelling about working in this industry is that I get to play hopefully, I hope, a small part in breaking those narratives and showing different narratives and showing different possibilities. I'm also Mexican-American. I mean, I grew up in an area, you know, that was like all, you know, all my cousins were cholos and gang members and like, but there was a beauty aesthetic that is actually now really being celebrated by designers like Wally Chavaria, Luar, you know what i mean like this like this latino american aesthetic that's like such a specific aesthetic that for years was found i mean that's not part of you know cis het white uh beauty standards you know and now and so there there's opportunities because of people like willie and you know hopefully people like darian and hopefully people like me and and you that get to start challenging these narratives and presenting a new idea of beauty yeah and a different standard of beauty and that is like honestly i have chills again honestly to me like there's nothing more fulfilling as a makeup artist than the ability to move that needle forward a bit well and what i

30:12Justin Tranter:have enjoyed so much about this conversation that's not done that sounds like i'm wrapping it up and i'm not don't you dare um don't go anywhere is that like for me right like being so luckily i was like so happily queer so young i had never i had shame for like a week and a half i i don't know i just like got so lucky and i just like once i came out i was done with like any drama. I think you're, I know you kind of the same too. Like you came out really young too. 13. Yeah. 14. Yeah. That what, but the examples of queer people slaying, it's so, there's so many different ways that we have influenced culture besides being the famous person.

30:55Justin Tranter:And I really wanted to be the famous person for a very long time. And I'm really glad it didn't happen for me. But I think what's so important about like a conversation like this of like, look at how you guys are impacting culture, even though to a lot of people, you're not famous. You're unfamous, right? But to people who - Thank God. Yeah. Come on. But to people who love beauty, who love fashion, you guys are really important. You know what I mean? And that is where like, to, as always, representation is so important in this and that, and that phrase gets overused right now and there's so much drama about it, but it actually is fucking real.

31:33Justin Tranter:And I don't just mean like representation. What annoys me about that conversation is like we always just talk about famous people but like to let LGBTQ people and people of color know that like we're slaying in ways that you're not seeing and you should strive for those jobs too. Don't just strive. And I do love beauty influencers. I actually am a fan. I follow a lot of them. But like don't just strive to be the beauty influencer. Strive to be a beauty architect. And like that to me is like actually influencing. Yeah. But you're actually right. What you guys do is influencing the influencers. And then the influencers like a year later are telling.

32:13Or a pop star or an actress or fashion or whatever. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like actually having influence as opposed to like not to be shady. Yeah. You can be shady. You're not famous.

32:28Justin Tranter:You can be shady. Um, the, you know, I, I hope that a lot of people listening to this are people who are trying to like learn about collaboration, learn about finding their own way through whatever fucked up industry they're trying to find their way through. Do you guys remember a moment together or apart when, when, before you broke, before you found the success? And I know that question is always funny. Cause I feel like I'm, I'm still looking for success. I feel like I'm just getting started in my career. I feel everyone feels that way though. Cause like, what is the idea of making it like what is that right if it's i don't think internally you'll i don't feel like i've made it right but if someone on the outside would be like oh of course you did years ago for that thing or whatever but like it's such like it's it's yeah yeah i think that's i think there's milestones and there's many milestones yeah well also i think when you're a creative person like truly creative in your heart you've never made it because you're not done yeah right i'm not done just because I have hit songs, I haven't made it I'm not done.

33:29And no matter what hill you climb when you get there, you see another bigger vista that you want to get to, you know what I mean? Or even just a different vista. I was just saying, it could be completely different it doesn't mean necessarily climbing up the same hill to another height, it could mean let me try a whole new hill that I never thought I could even get into that has nothing to do with what I'm doing now you know what I mean? Maybe like, I think that's part of the creative process.

33:52Justin Tranter:You touched on a moment when you were saying like before he brought you into the Maybelline orbit you were kind of done. Yeah. Do you, and then like through his encouragement and your guys' collaboration, you kept going and now you're killing it even more. Do you remember a moment for your, cause I have a moment that I'll talk about too of when I almost quit. Do you ever have one of those? Many times. It was more when I first moved to New York because the first year and a half of living in New York was really brutal. I was surviving off of cheese slices and like Big Macs with no meat because I was a vegetarian at the time.

34:31And I was like - Which is just cheese and bread. A pickle. Yeah, and a pickle. I was just broke, broke status. And I like once a month had to call my mom to like beg her for$100 or like somebody to help me complete my rent. And it was just like a lot. And then I, when I, you know, I had to move from different places a lot for numerous reasons. And every time I had to move, it just was so overwhelming. And I was just like, oh my God. Like, and I just remember many times thinking like, I just have to go back to San Diego. I don't think I can survive this. I don't think this is for me. I don't think I can do it.

35:00I don't know if I'm good enough. Right. And then there was also many times throughout, even when I started doing well, where I'd have a really bad day at work or really stressful or worked with a photographer that was just nasty. And at the end of the day, you go back to the hotel room and you're just like, am I even good? What am I doing here? Who do I think I am? There's always that, I think, level of insecurity.

35:19Justin Tranter:I still have days where I'm like, am I actually a good songwriter? Or am I just like really cunt? and people like to hang out with me. But of course I'm a good songwriter. Sure, people like to hang out with me in the room, but the fans don't know that I'm cunt. They don't know I'm exist. The fans don't even know I'm alive. They just hear my song. But I think that that is such an... We were talking about it the other day. The imposter syndrome sometimes never goes away. There's some weeks where I'm like... It really depends on the day and the shoot and the this and the that. because like, yeah, some days you're like, oh, I'm really fabulous.

35:56And other days I'm like, I am trash. What am I doing? I think the days when I feel the most fabulous, if I'm honest, is when I'm not equating my worth to my work. Which is very hard to do. I don't know how to do that. It's very hard to do. It's very hard to do. How do you do it?

36:15Justin Tranter:Because I literally don't, because I feel like, especially when you're an artist, maybe if you're like a CEO or something, you're like it's just a job it is what it is when you're an artist it's like but my job is my hobby like what I love is fucking music so it's so hard for me to not equate my success to my worth how do you how do you do I'll tell you how how I found a path to it um I'm sober and before I got sober Thank you. Before I got sober six years ago, my life literally imploded. And I had burned so many bridges at work and just ripped my career to shreds in this process of a completely insane downward spiral into severe addiction.

37:03And in that process, right before I got sober, no one would work with me anymore. Really? I lost every client. My biggest client, Gucci, at the time, And I had just signed a cosmetic contract with them, like a million dollar cosmetic contract with them. And they literally sent me, like a lawyer sent me papers being like, this is done. Because it was really, I mean, it was next level, brutal, like, you know, rock bottom. And because of that, I had to finally admit I had a problem. Go move back to San Diego because I had nothing left. Like I just was like, at that point I had even, I was living in my friend's place and all my stuff was in storage because the apartment I was living in wouldn't renew my lease.

37:47And I was working so much at the time still with Gucci that I didn't have a chance to get a new apartment. So I literally had nowhere to even live. And I was like, I guess this is the universe telling me like, go back to San Diego and go to rehab. And so when I went to rehab in San Diego, I was like, I mean, I was suicidal. I was like, everything I worked for is gone. Like I'll never work in this industry again. I really truly believe I'd never work in the industry again. I didn't see how there would ever be a path for me to reconnect or like build my reputation back. And not only that, but I was also so mentally unstable at the time that I was just like, how am I going to stop using drugs?

38:18And I ended up going to rehab. And during the process of getting sober, when I still for the first year of sobriety truly believed that I was not going to work again, I had to find a sense of self outside of work. Right. And that taught me. Right. how to disconnect my sense of self because I had to, I had to discover, okay, like I'm, I may never work again. I may never work again in this field that I worked so many, like blood, sweat and tears and like all that New York, you know, moving there and all the stuff, everything I worked towards is gone. It's just like ripped from under me and it's, and it's no one's fault but my own.

38:53And now I'm here and what now? And I had to find a place within myself where I can say like, I'm still worth being here. Yeah. Regardless, because, because we have innate worth of just being, I mean, anything that exists, just existing has innate worth and value. And I didn't know that until then. Right. I didn't know that.

39:12Justin Tranter:Right. You were like, you were forced to learn it. Well, I, I, I truly believe and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think anyone who is overachiever or like really strong ambition, it comes from oftentimes the place of pain. Right. Oftentimes it comes from it. And maybe not everyone. I don't want to speak for everyone. I can only speak for myself, but for me, it came from a place of pain. It came from a place of proving people wrong, proving to myself that I'm worthy yeah proving to myself that I have a place in the world and something to do in the world and then contribute yeah um which I don't think is a bad thing but if that's all the worth is is what I can produce yeah then it can be negative and I think that's what's actually led to my addiction and a lot of like the issues that I had was that I couldn't I couldn't separate my sense of self and identity from what I produced in my work and so all of my mood and sense of self was on this rollercoaster ride all the time.

40:01I'm like, it's a good work week. It's a bad work week. You know what I mean? Like I lost the job. I'm going to kill myself. I'm doing great now. I'm on top of the world. Like it was up and down. And so when I'm at the, you know, at the mercy of people booking me or what my last job was, like, that's not a great place for my emotional self and my sense of spiritual self to be. And so I got to get to this place of finding real self-worth underneath all of that. And then, so now obviously reconnecting to the industry, I have that in me. And I remember that I know how to connect to that.

40:28Justin Tranter:What I relate to so much and what you just said was that I so much of my one of the biggest overachievers I've ever met. So much of my overachieving I know comes from I'm going to prove everyone wrong. And like I was bullied so bad. And what I always say I'm so grateful for is that it didn't, the bullying, like in some ways it never destroyed me because I just kept going, I'm going to do something great. I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you. I'm going to fucking show you. But it was like out of spite and revenge, which I'm grateful for because I slayed. But you can't build your whole life off of spite and revenge.

41:22You can for a while, I think.

41:24Justin Tranter:And it works for a while. It's a great motivator. It's a great motivator. Yeah. But at some point, once you do achieve some version of what you wanted, once that you can, I know for a fact, on my hometown's Wikipedia, I am the most famous person to come from that fucking town. But that doesn't actually make me happy. It is like fun to be like, fuck you, stupid bitches. Shut that school system down. but it actually doesn't bring you happiness. So it's so inspiring and beautiful. You know, I hate that you had to hit rock bottom to find that. I love that I did. But how great that you found it. I love that I did.

42:01Justin Tranter:Do you know what I mean? It was such a blessing, honestly. Like you kind of, we all need to, you want to hope that you learn the lesson that like I'm more than just my work. Right. But maybe you sometimes have to be forced to learn that lesson. I know we talk all the time of like when she like if a celebrity client cancels just because their schedule changed it has nothing to do with her talent they're just their week of shoots got cancelled it's hard not to like feel bummed and it's like we have to at some point not care you start thinking about the last time you worked with them and it was something I said something I did did I wear something they didn't like did I look at them you just think there's so many variables oh yeah did their schedule actually change or yeah someone else yeah who knows i mean it's yeah it's that was thank you very much for being that vulnerable because it's it's i think it's important for everyone to hear let's go a little bit lighter yeah thank you for going heavier though i very much appreciate you um so i'm going to do a segment in every episode of whether it's if the person's a musician, it's songs that ruined your life.

43:14Justin Tranter:For you guys, looks that ruined your life. And when I say, you know, you guys speak the same language I do. So ruin my life is a positive of like, you saw an image when you were young or even somewhere further in your career where you were like, I need to be that good. I have to do something that iconic. Can you guys remember from childhood or even later? Yeah. I mean, oh my God. Well, of course, Blonde Ambition, Madonna, when I was 10. I mean, I recreated that makeup on myself and it was just like so iconic and, you know, seeing Truth or Dare and seeing Joanne Gare, who was her makeup artist at the time, doing her makeup, do something else, do my eyebrows.

43:52Like, you know, such an iconic moment. But like, I was like, I want to be a makeup artist and like do someone fabulous like that.

44:00Justin Tranter:What would you think it was if when you were young, what was it in that makeup look? Was it the brows? What was it about? I think just all, yeah, all of it. the brows, the lips, the mole, you know. The mole was good. The mole. It's like, why did she get rid of that mole? I know. Like the most iconic part of the makeup. Somebody call her. I know. Somebody call her. Yadim, can you remember a look that ruined your life? Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, there was many looks that ruined my life that had nothing to do with makeup. The first time I watched the Burning Up video when I was really, really like a child, like I mean a baby, and apparently I like started writhing my body like her and my biological father got really upset.

44:38But... From a makeup standpoint, like seeing those Kevin Aucoin books. For me. For sure.

44:44Justin Tranter:Those Kevin Aucoin books. If any young Gen X or older millennial, and actually anyone who likes beauty at all, but like for our age group, those books. I'm not even a makeup artist. That book changed my life. They were my Bible. Books, plural. Yeah. It's what, how does the makeup world look at those books now? I think everyone that's working that's like our generation, I mean, of course, those books are the pinnacle of every hope and dream that you ever had as a teen growing up. Because I remember when I was a teenager, I would ditch school to go into San Francisco, the city proper, and go to the makeup counters and just like hang out and like buy makeup.

45:29And seeing everyone and everyone was so glamorous and like the men, the women, everyone was like so beat and everything. but I befriended a girl that worked at the Makeup Forever counter. And she was like, oh, because I was like 15. She's like, you need to go get this book by Kevin Aucoin. He's like this really amazing makeup artist in New York. And this book is so amazing. And it's the book, his first book that no one ever talks about. People always talk about making faces. No, this is the one before. The Art of Makeup. Oh, The Art of Makeup. That's right. Because that one wasn't even out yet.

46:02But it's like much bigger. It's a coffee table book. And it's like the makeup is so late 80s, early 90s, just like painted. You know, there's like that famous one of Linda Evangelista. It's so good. And I was just like, I don't know. It's just like the idea of being a makeup artist when you're in your small little town and like working with pop stars and celebrities and actors or whatever. Like it seems such a pipe dream of what's ever happened. For me, I remember my mom was watching an episode of Oprah that he came on. Oh, no way. And did Makeover. I didn't know that. And I watched that episode and I was like, who is this magician?

46:45I just couldn't believe his personality, the way he talked, how vulnerable he was, like everything. I was like, oh, my God. And my mom ended up, I guess, buying me those books. And I poured over those books. And I practiced every single look in there and my sister, and my mom, and my friends. Like I just, it was amazing. And also not just amazing because of how incredibly talented he was, but also because of like his story. Like he was also a small town boy that was brutally, brutally bullied and picked on. And like he went, and of course that was like my template in my mind. That's what I have to do.

47:19I have to move to New York and do this. Yeah. So yeah, that definitely ruined my life.

47:23Justin Tranter:It's, I mean, I'm not a makeup artist and those books ruin my life. Yeah, for sure. Me trying to figure out like a crease on like my fucking girlfriend and on myself. Just like those books were... I wonder what that is. What do you think it is? Like what would be that version for makeup for people now? Is it just influencers? Yeah. Sadly. Yeah. But I mean, some influencers are. Oh, yeah. I mean, your friend Erin Parson. Oh, she's incredible. Well, she was an actual makeup artist. But I'm saying like there are examples. Yeah. If you're going to follow a makeup influencer, Erin Parson. It's actually...

47:54And Lisa Eldridge. Lisa Eldridge. Okay, I don't know her. Okay, great. Who's also a pro makeup artist that has, she was like the first pro makeup artist to do YouTube. Oh, cool. And she's like really, she has an amazing collection of Biba makeup, which was like the old Glow Rock makeup from the 70s.

48:09Justin Tranter:Who would be your guys' like favorite working makeup artists right now who aren't yourselves? I mean, I will just say like, Pat McGrath will always be my hero because she gave me a chance at a time when no one else was and I worked with her and all that. And like just what she's contributed to the lexicon of beauty and fashion is, I think actually unachievable by anyone else ever, ever again, truly. And I have to give kudos to that. There's no way you can talk about beauty without talking about her. And then, so that's like, obviously she's been around for a long time. I also just like working today, like more like my contemporaries, I think Thomas De Cliver is really amazing.

48:53He's also represented by my agency. I think there's this girl in my agency named Anna Takahashi who's really amazing. There's this incredible makeup artist who's now doing all the McQueen stuff. His name's Daniel Salstrom, who's really talented. I don't know him either. Yeah, he does all the Wick Owens shows and all that whole Wick Owens thing. He's really, really incredible. Yeah, those are a few of mine.

49:13Justin Tranter:I love that. For you guys at this point in your perspective career separately and also together, um what are things that like you'll say no to finally like at this age or at this level of success or are there things that you've like can because I know for me when I was so desperate for any sort of success I would I would put myself through any shit show of a situation and now I'm not good at it but I try to set some boundaries for things I know aren't going to be good for me or fun are there at this point of things that you're like i can't i can't do that i'm not looking for you to spill tea or say names but just like yeah yeah i mean i think like it's just people that you vibe with and like or just like some job that's like maybe it's gonna pay or maybe it won't or it's like what's that gonna do for me like i don't need to do that yeah um or just you know i think it's such an intimate experience working with a client um you have to like them yeah so So if it's like, I mean, obviously, if you get booked on some kind of shoot with someone that you've never worked with before and they could be great, they could not be great.

50:22And that's only for a day. But you just know never to work with that person again. But most of, you know, I don't really have like really bad horror stories of like horrible experiences, thankfully.

50:35Justin Tranter:That's good. You do remember things that you like won't, certain types of jobs you know, like I just can't do that anymore? Yes, absolutely. I have this thing where I have to I won't engage in a behavior for very long or like do something for very long that doesn't fulfill two of these three things that's does it bring me joy is it harmful to me or is it not harmful to me and is it not harmful to others so like as long as two of those three are there um i won't i i can't keep myself doing it for very for too long like i have to it has to fit in there somehow yeah and especially the not harmful to others i feel that's like it has to happen yeah what can you explain that like what do you um for example i will i work with a brand that i know has um you know maybe some shady history or like right doesn't got you know what i mean like you know for whatever reason like has had some like shady stuff or scandal or something like Like that's not for me.

51:38It's harmful to others and will also be harmful to me. So like that's an absolute no. You know what I mean? And so like, yeah. And so I, so I obviously like to bring me joy. Sometimes we have to engage in jobs that don't necessarily bring us the most joy in that moment. But like it helps. Sometimes it's still a job. Obviously there's times where I get, I get booked for a brand that maybe, or like a company that has, you know, an incredible amount of money that maybe does have a scandal. But like the people are lovely and I, you know what I mean? it pays me well and like you know we have you can take care of your family of our families right i'm you know mexican kid from san diego like i say to to young writers all the time whether

52:15Justin Tranter:they're signed to my company or not just like you just have to decide what the goal is though like if the goal is to just have hits so that you can have financial security just fucking go to work if you have if you are mentally blessed enough or financially blessed enough from your family or whatever that you just only want to do writing sessions that you love that's a different conversation but like if I'm going to mentor you or help you we have to decide together what the goal is are you here just for hits and just go to fucking work yeah so when when I I don't know about you guys but I get asked by young songwriters or even young pops trying to be pop stars all the time of like what's the advice what's the advice and for me I'm always just like work harder than you've ever imagined.

53:02Justin Tranter:But I know for some people, that's not a healthy way to do it. Do you guys have advice that you ever give to young people asking like how to, because both of our industry is very different, but like it is a mystery of like, how the fuck do you even get in there? Right. Like how does this even start? So if people ask you guys for advice, what would you even begin to say? I mean, I think if you're young, you do just have to like say yes to everything because you never know what it's going to lead to, what kind of connection you're going to make from it. And I think that's important when you're starting out is to just like do everything, assist everyone, do all of it and see where you land and like what kind of like genre of the makeup world that you like doing.

53:45Yeah. Because there's so many different, you know, there's fashion, there's red carpet, there's celebrity. Yeah. And what's your voice and what's your aesthetic? And like.

53:54Justin Tranter:You might not know what you're best at until you get in there and try it. Yeah. I just assumed I'm meant to be a rock star. I actually didn't realize I'm much better at helping other people tell their stories. And I would have never fucking learned that if I was like, no, I'm not going to write a song for someone else. Ew. I'm the star. If I would have been that stupid, I wouldn't have the life and the creative fulfillment that I have. It's like you do have to say yes, especially when you're starting to everything. For sure. And just like working with assisting other makeup artists that have a different aesthetic than you.

54:27Like that's so important because you're learning every makeup artist is different. They paint a certain way. They like certain things, different products, different aesthetics. And so assist like as many as you can that kind of, you can cherry pick different things and techniques from all these different people and then make it your own. Yeah. You know, I think that's really important. Yeah. I mean, I would say to young people that first of all, I want to say that I think some of like, I hate to be this like the old lady, like the younger generation, but I really do feel and I've noticed this.

55:02It's like I've had direct experience of this that because of how much the landscape has shifted and because of how much culture has changed, because of social media, because of all these things, there is a sense of entitlement for very young people that like, oh, all I have to do is get like Instagram famous and then I'll get to this, you know, be makeup artist of the world. and unfortunately like that's just not going to bring you the skill set necessary to be a truly architect like you said right of the beauty world or of any industry like it's just not enough it's

55:32Justin Tranter:not well i was looking at i mean i look at your instagram all the time because you're amazing and we're friends but i was looking at it last night because we're about to do this and i was like this is i swear this is a compliment i was like he only has like 30 000 followers fucking gucci Maybelline, Dior, Valentino and there's only 30 ,000 followers and that to me is so fucking beautiful and I'm fine with it and you should be I swear on my life it's a compliment of like the amount of but you the skill set that you have that does not involve the internet is what actually makes you an architect of beauty is what actually makes you a successful leader of the whole fucking beauty division I'm just never going to be that girl.

56:16I just, it's not in me. Like, I've tried it a couple times. I'm like, this feels so inauthentic to me to be doing that kind of content and, like, pumping out how-tos and content and videos. It's just not me. It doesn't come naturally to me. It comes naturally. Like, Erin Parsons, I could never do what she does. She's a natural.

56:33Justin Tranter:She talks to her phone like it's a fucking stadium. And she loves it. And she loves it. She revels in it, you know? And like, I just feel so awkward and terrible in that situation. Like I don't like it. And I also don't like selling things to people. Like I don't want to have to sell. We did that already. Like I rather just like do great work and let it speak for itself. And like, that's what, yeah. And also how beautiful that you have both busted your asses that you don't have to be just selling shit on your phone. You can actually just be creating, you know, whether it's face charts or, or doing actual makeup or whether it's the stuff you do with, brands or on celebrities that you have paid your dues that you don't need to be talking to your phone and if you love talking to your phone that's different like aaron does it and she loves it and it's amazing and the great thing about aaron as well is that she actually has the real world firsthand experience of working in the trenches yeah of fashion and beauty so like she is a true expert like yeah like like you said like follow her like go check her out because like that is an influencer that's so good at that part of it.

57:40Yeah. But that also has the goods to back it up.

57:43Justin Tranter:Yeah. And I think we need more of those. Yeah. You know, what are you guys last question before we play that stupid fun game? What about because I think as collaborators, we're like, we don't hype each other up enough. It's like you get so used to working with that person that you like, don't hype each other up enough. Like, what is it about each other that you love working together? Like, why do you think it works so great when you guys collaborate on something? I think we just speak the same language and we totally understand what we speak in reference. So, like, even if, like, you know, we haven't done this in a while, but like when I was assisting you on like a campaign or a show or something and you can just like spit out like some obscure reference.

58:26And I completely understand what you're talking about and what to do. Yeah. There was a Gucci show that she worked on with me years ago when Alessandro was still at the brand. And we were in the south of France in this town called Arles. That was my favorite experience, actually. This town called Arles. And one of the looks, Alessandro was like, I want to do something kind of punk, heavy metal on someone, like on this one specific model. Just like play around and do something really like kind of like metal rock something. And I was like, okay. So I went to Darian. I knew Darian had to do this look.

59:02I went to her. I literally just said that. I was like, I don't know, something on the forehead that's like heavy metal, slightly kiss, slightly punk. And I just literally allowed her to go off. And that's probably one of my favorite looks that I did while we were at Gucci. And it would have been impossible without you. Like you literally contributed so much to that moment. And it was such an incredible look. But it was such a collaboration too. because, you know, I was executing the makeup because obviously when you're on a show like that, you know, there's so many models. There's so many, you know, you can't possibly do every makeup.

59:38But, you know, I'd start doing something and you'd be like, oh, I like that. And like, maybe fill that in with this and then do that and like add some of that there. And, you know, it's such a, you know, collaboration.

59:50Justin Tranter:It's very rare you're going to ever have a good collaboration without trust. It's like, why collaborate with that person? You know? it's every good song I've ever written. It's like, even if it was just for three hours, we trusted each other. You know, hopefully you have a long-term writing relationship with that person. You trust each other for years. But like, you're not going to write a good song if someone like doesn't trust the other person's taste level for that three hours. You're just, it's impossible. It's impossible. Okay. So here's a fabulous, fabulous game that our friend Morgan invented that I wholeheartedly approve.

1:00:23Justin Tranter:It's called Gagged or Dragged. Okay. So I'm going to list an example of something. And you guys, you each have to say, is this a gag? Do you love this? Or drag, it's terrible. Okay, not like drag queen, like dragged, this sucks. Drag, yes, great. Okay.

1:00:44Justin Tranter:Wearing Birkenstocks to set. I don't know how we got to this place. I feel like we've given up as a society. I really don't. Hate it. Drag, yeah, 100%. Um, graphic liner that is so sharp, it could wound someone. Oh, what's... Gag. Gag. Horse gag. Yeah. The best gag. Great, great. Um, having to do a full body beat down on someone before 7 a.m. Like body makeup? Drug. I mean... That's kind of my bread and butter these days, so I'm going to say, um... Gag. We love her. She's paying the bills, baby. We love her. Clients who say, do whatever you want and then panic. Most of the time, clients don't know what they want.

1:01:29No. No one knows what they want until they see what they don't want. Yeah.

1:01:33Justin Tranter:Celebrities doing makeup tutorials with four filters on. I mean, listen, you better be putting a filter on this. What's a current makeup trend you can't wait to end? Any Kardashian-based beauty look. I'm just, it's just, like, give it a rest already. Like, it's over. It's over. It came. We saw it. It covered. It's gone. And people are still holding onto it so much and trying to keep it going. And I'm like, girl, like, give it a rest. What I find so interesting, and the Kardashians are a big part of this, but the amount of makeup trends that were invented for whether it was drag queens or trans women, people assigned male at birth to appear female that then, like, the conservative cis head community is still wearing.

1:02:23Justin Tranter:You realize that whole thing that you're doing was inspired so that people assigned male at birth could look like women. Whether they want to look like a woman for the night or every day. That is what you're doing. Not only the face, but also the surgery that you're doing to your body. Gender affirming care. That's gender affirming care. And you're wearing a fucking MAGA hat. That's crazy. Like what? So true. Really a wild thing to wrap your head around. It really, really is. But that being said, I do miss vintage boob jobs. They were much more exciting. They were much more exciting. The Grand Canyon Gap.

1:03:00Justin Tranter:The Grand Canyon Gap is what we're going to name the title of this episode. The Grand Canyon Gap. Is there anything that you think that you haven't said about collaboration that you think people should know? And if you say we've said it all, that's fine too. I know something. one of the strengths that I think Darian and I have in our collaborative relationship is that we can always be honest with each other and if she, for example, back in the day when she was doing the face charts if a face chart came that I was like I was never afraid to hurt her feelings and she would never have her feelings hurt because she'd be like, okay, she wants to change so it's not taking things personally so a prerequisite of being honest with each other is not taking things personally and knowing that feedback or whatever critique or change that has to be made is not coming from a place of like malice or shade.

1:03:54It's coming from a place of like, we just want this to be better than it is now. We can do this. We can do better than this. Like let's figure out a different way. And I think that's been really important. And you kind of have to like learn that to not take it personally and just sort of learn like what I said before, you know, no one knows what they want until they see what they don't want. So you just have to like do things and like this is just what it is, but be prepared to get notes. yeah you know whether you're a writer whether you're anything notes you get notes yeah so you

1:04:24Justin Tranter:have to be able to take them in a like healthy way and i think what like about like having a long-term collaborator like you guys are like many of my co-writers are is that you don't take it personally because you really respect that person right there's an element of respect and trust you're like like if you say to her this chart isn't my fave you're probably like i don't want to speak for you before like oh i trust you jean he's probably right let me fucking change this or it's not even about being right or wrong it's just about for this specific project it's not right for this yeah it's not right for this moment and also like i think another thing that i've learned and i've i probably learned this from working for and with people that weren't good at this and i realized what i didn't want to do yeah is that i tend to i really love to lift my collaborators up with me like I want my collaborators to be known for what they contributed to the project any assistant I've ever had has gone on to do really great things and we're still good friends and I want to be I want to like embrace that embrace them and I'm proud of them which is not the norm it's not the norm necessarily and so when Darian does projects with me like I want her I want it to be known that she worked on that I want it to be known that she did that face to her I want it to be known that she contributed this you know what I'm also I love about what you just said so much is that like I think so many times when we are trying we're on the come up and people do shitty things to us a lot of people once they get the power they want to redo those shitty things they want to continue the cycle that's the norm no like once you get the power you fought so hard to get the power change it change it be fucking nice celebrate the change that you're i mean it sounds so cliche but like truly be the difference yeah i love it what is that what is a makeup what does a makeup do a makeup do is do whatever the fuck you want i think like be bold as bold as you want to be or as pared back as you want to be but just make it a strong look a strong choice i just believe in a strong choice i love it um and it could be bad but in a good way i mean i love so bad it's good that's my favorite kind of good it's bad i love it yeah i love it i think just don't be afraid like it it's just makeup it comes right off like play do be obsessive explore do your research like you know your reference going get into references like if you really want to work or be an architect of beauty or fashion you have to learn about the history of it um otherwise it's just you're you're only recycling what's happening i mean some people kids today that it's like anything happened prior to 2009 they couldn't care less and they don't even know let alone we're all walking around with supercomputers people don't know that madonna did truth or dare and brought ambition to her they literally don't know about it it's crazy it's like this is a huge a huge contribution to beauty and fashion i love it be intentional know your reference and know your history know your references and i my my wrap up um could be something funny about like don't overdo your contour at at noon but i think you should actually i think that'd be fabulous um is actually what you said at the end of like if there's no point to have collaborators if you're not going to respect them And like, uh, being constructive criticism is okay, but, uh, deconstructive criticism is gross as fuck.

1:07:38Justin Tranter:If they don't have collaborators, if you're going to treat them like shit, that's crazy thing to do. Yay! Yay! Watch Unfamous on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.