10 | Mile 44

15 Aug 2024 · 35 min

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In short

Up and Vanished - Episode 10 | Mile 44

Podcast Overview

Title: Up and Vanished Host: Payne Lindsey Focus: Investigating mysterious cold case disappearances. Current Season (Season 4): The case of missing Alaska Native, Florence Okpealuk, and 36-year-old Joseph Balderas.

Episode Summary

In this episode, titled "Mile 44," host Payne Lindsey delves deeper into the investigation surrounding the disappearance of Joseph Balderas in Nome, Alaska. The episode discusses interviews conducted by private investigator Andy Klamser, focusing on Joseph's relationships, his last communications, and the mysterious circumstances surrounding his disappearance.

Key Themes and Discussions

  1. Investigation of Joseph Balderas
  2. Last Seen: Joseph was last seen with Christine Piscoya, a woman rumored to have had a close relationship with him.
  3. Communication Records: The episode highlights the importance of Joseph’s cell phone records, which are limited due to the inability to retrieve text contents from his provider.
  4. Suspicious Behavior: One significant revelation is that Christine wiped her phone the day after Joseph went missing, raising red flags about her involvement.
  1. Joseph's Relationships
  2. Christine Piscoya:
  3. Described as a close friend of Joseph, with suspicions of a romantic relationship at one time.
  4. Her testimony about Joseph’s demeanor and their last interactions is inconsistent.
  5. Roommate Jake:
  6. Claims to have seen Joseph on Sunday, which contradicts other evidence.
  7. His testimony raises further questions about the timeline of events leading up to Joseph's disappearance.
  1. Joseph’s Truck and Physical Evidence
  2. Truck Location: Joseph’s truck was found at Mile 44, a remote area near Nome.
  3. Search Efforts: Extensive search operations were conducted, but no physical evidence of Joseph was found in the vicinity of the truck.
  4. Witness Accounts: Various witnesses reported seeing Joseph’s truck but had conflicting stories about the timeline and whether they saw Joseph himself.
  1. Inconsistencies and Red Flags
  2. Conflicting Testimonies:
  3. Christine’s story conflicts with her sister Kim’s accounts, as well as Jake's statements.
  4. Jake's narrative evolves, causing concerns over credibility.
  5. Unusual Behavior: Christine’s uncle, Kevin Piscoya, displayed peculiar behavior during the search efforts, further complicating the investigation.
  1. Speculation on Foul Play
  2. Multiple discussions hint at the possibility of foul play, given the inconsistencies in testimonies and the lack of evidence supporting the theory of an accident.
  3. Lindsey suggests that either someone doesn’t want Joseph to be found, or he may not want to be found himself.

Key Takeaways

  • Inconsistencies: The varying accounts from Christine, Jake, and witnesses create a confusing timeline that complicates the investigation.
  • Evidence Missing: The failure to secure and process Joseph’s truck for fingerprints and other physical evidence by law enforcement is a critical oversight.
  • Community Impact: The episode emphasizes how deeply Joseph's disappearance has affected the Nome community, highlighting the need for continued investigation and attention to detail.

Conclusion

Episode 10 of Up and Vanished continues to unravel the complex narrative surrounding Joseph Balderas's disappearance, raising questions about the people closest to him and the events leading up to that fateful day. The episode captures the tension and urgency of seeking the truth in a case clouded with ambiguities and potential deceit.

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For more information and updates, follow the show on Instagram: [@upandvanished](https://www.instagram.com/upandvanished).

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Transcript

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0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

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1:34Welcome to Radio Rental. The scariest stories you've ever heard in your life. All told by real people. And off we go. This wasn't a human being that I saw. There's something here in this house. Something not of this world. There was a woman moving through the hall. I stepped back and I was completely alone. Radio Rental is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

2:29physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.

2:49Do you have any suggestions for people I should speak with about what happened to it? Well, we have a former employee that left. Her name is Christine Piscoya. She was the one who last saw him, supposedly. She sensed there was something wrong with him, too. Did she tell you that? No. Really? Really. I talked to her for a long time. She said he was perfectly normal. When did she tell you that she sensed that something was wrong? As soon as he disappeared. Did she say anything more about that? What she told me, they went out for any night at the bar. He came down to the beach Saturday afternoon.

3:41She said he seemed different. She told me that she got a sense that something was wrong. What did she tell you this? I don't know.

3:54Joseph and I had many conversations about her. I warned him, Joseph, I know you want to be friends with her. You tell me there's nothing more but friendship. You better not play the game, because she will fall hard. He said, no, Camille, she's just my good friend. I said, then don't play her.

4:19DUDAN' Dской

4:50Andy Klamzer was hired by Joseph's family in the summer of 2016 to investigate his disappearance. Joseph met Christine at the Nome Court where she worked. She left the court, but they remained friends and would socialize frequently. It was a little murky to me about whether or not Joseph and Christine had a relationship at one time. He conducted over a dozen interviews, starting with some of Joseph's co-workers. Are you aware of any women that Joseph had been involved with in Nome, even if it was just a casual one-night thing? I suspect that he was involved with Christine, but that was just a suspicion.

5:33I think something's going on between those two. They spent too much time together. Multiple people had speculated Joseph and Christine had some sort of romantic relationship, at least at one point in time. They may have been involved at one time. It sounded like they probably did, but they were no longer involved. It switched to just being close friends. They socialized frequently. Andy asked Christine herself about her relationship with Joseph. So were you and Joseph ever in a romantic relationship? No, we were just friends. Okay. Do you remember Joseph ever talking about anyone that he was having problems with and known?

6:14He never said anything, but I don't think he's the type of person to have someone be mad at him because if there was an issue, he would ask him about it. I don't think he was that type of person to have anybody mad at him. What are your gut instincts about what you think happened to him? I don't know. I mean, I still have hope that he's somewhere. and I just don't want, I just have a feeling that he is somewhere, he's got to be somewhere because he can't just up and leave. And I haven't given up on, I haven't lost hope.

6:59I think about him every day and keep wondering if today's the day that somebody will call me and tell me that he's found or something, but I don't know. Joseph's last communications on his cell phone leading up to his disappearance are a crucial piece of evidence in this case. We have his cell phone records, but Sprint was unable to provide the contents of his phone's text messages. All we can see are the times and the phone numbers. There are numerous texts back and forth between Joseph and Christine, Friday and Saturday, leading all the way up to the moment he drops off the grid. Because Joseph's cell phone is also missing along with him, Our only hope in finding out what him and Christine were talking about in those final moments is if Christine provided those messages herself.

7:47But the day after Joseph went missing, Christine completely restored her iPhone. My brother had picked up my phone because I was in one of the races. He was wanting to record it, so he flipped up and took a picture or recorded it or something. And then my brother's a jackass who likes to fuck with things. And so he punched in my password and disabled my phone. And so I had been trying my passwords that I thought I changed it to. And by the time I got to trying to get it, it would lock me out in an hour. And then it finally said connect to iTunes. It was making me wait an hour, wait 60 minutes or, you know, wait this long.

8:25All the versions of this story that Christine told police, the first private investigator and Andy Clamser are so damn convoluted. Her brother wanted to film something on her phone. So did he? because you can do that without unlocking it. And did she pass her phone to her brother? If so, why not just unlock it for him? Regardless of why or how Christine restored her phone, this was extremely detrimental to the investigation. And so I just reset it to a new phone. And then when I tried to look how to back up, you know, from a previous, it wouldn't give me that option. And so I had to restore it as a new phone.

9:03Have you heard any rumors about what might have happened to him? I don't know. They were saying maybe he could have been eaten by a bear. Maybe he could have fallen. I don't know.

9:18Joseph's truck was found on Monday, June 27, 2016, after he didn't show up for work in the morning. His truck was found at the Mile 44 marker of a road called Gnome Council Road. Mile 44 is pretty far out there, a decent trek from Gnome proper. at least a 45-minute to one-hour drive from the beach in Nome, where Joseph was allegedly last seen with Christine. Joseph's truck itself is one of the only physical pieces of evidence we have left to analyze. Law enforcement has the ability to seize vehicles and process them for fingerprints. But the Alaska State troopers dropped the ball on that one. That was not done.

9:58They basically just didn't explore any of that. I think they became wedded to the theory that he was a victim of an accident. There are multiple sightings of his truck, but some of these sightings appear contradictory. Let's start with the very first sighting. Around 3 p.m. on Saturday, a witness said they saw the truck with a man standing behind the open driver's door. They saw a man standing by the driver's door. The first private investigator that went out interviewed the witness. Tell me your story. I was coming from my camp at Council, so it was like Saturday afternoon, 3 o 'clock or so. Truck was parked there, kind of in an unusual spot, so I slowed down just to see if anybody needed help.

10:45I slowed down, looked over at him. And you saw somebody standing next to the truck? Yes, he was standing right next to the truck when I went by. I should tell you, somebody was standing next to the truck. Because I don't know him from a car. So, was this actually Joseph? Or could it have been someone else? He said that he couldn't identify the person that he saw standing there. It was just too fast and he was behind the door. A man with dark hair. That's about all they could provide. So, there's that. Was he leaning against it or 10 feet away from it? or what do you mean? The driver's door was open.

11:25He's standing two or three feet away from the car. And so the door is partially blocking him, but I can still see him standing there and something in his hands, looking down at his hands. Whoever it was, the driver's door was open. He was standing behind the driver's door, looking down at something in his hands. And he didn't even look up, didn't wave me down or anything. So I figured he was all right. And away I went. This man claimed to have seen Joseph's truck at 3 p.m. on Saturday. But if Joseph left the beach at 3 p.m. in Nome, and it takes nearly an hour to get out there, how could this even be possible?

12:00Either he's mixed up on the time, someone is mistaken or lying about when Joseph actually left town, or this wasn't Joseph at all, and it was somebody else standing by his truck. On Sunday, several people said that they drove by and saw the truck various times during the day Sunday. Trooper Sergeant Cross saw the truck at 1 o 'clock. According to the Alaska State Troopers report, Sergeant Cross saw Joseph's truck early in the afternoon on Sunday, June 26. At this point in time, Joseph had been out of communication with everyone for nearly 24 hours. He was specific that he saw it at 1 p.m. This is a very rural area.

12:46This is a gravel road in the middle of nowhere. If you know the way cops operate, he's going to remember it. I think that's a very credible observation. The first private investigator interviewed as many witnesses as he could. He found a convoy of two vehicles that had seen Joseph's truck at the same time on Sunday. They were brothers, in separate vehicles, driving their families to a wedding. This might be our most credible account. June 24th of 2016 was a Friday, the 25th was a Saturday, the 26th was a Sunday, and the following Monday would have been the 27th, okay? Right, okay. All right. You are coming back from council on what day?

13:29The 26th. Sunday, the 26th. Our family friend was getting married that day, so we were coming back in early. Louie and I were in the same vehicle coming back, and we left council at 10 o 'clock in the morning. Does Council have a mile marker? It does. What is it? It's right around 74, 75. That's right in there. So to get to 44, you'd have to travel 30 miles? Yep. Do you think you left right at 10? It was very close to 10. I remember looking at the clock. From Council to mile 44, about how long does that take? I would say probably 40 to 45 miles, I would say. We push the speed limit pretty good because, you know, I've been driving on it since I was 15.

14:09So, I mean, we go a lot faster than just the average person would driving on that road. We're talking about leaving just right about 10 on the dot. And we're talking 40 to 45 minutes to hit mile marker 44. Dan, you believe it's between 1040 and 1045 or 1040 and 1050? 1040, 1045. The reason it stood out, I mean, he was right on the edge of the road. When you're going to go park off the road and go do something, You pull off a lot further than he was. He wasn't pulled off very far at all. Hasty parking job. So at 10.45 a.m. on Sunday, June 26, Joseph's truck was at mile 44. It was sticking out in the road at a bizarre angle, as if it was parked there in a hurry.

14:57The angle in which it was positioned, it almost appears as if the truck was coming from the opposite direction. Saturday the 25th we drove down to council and I can't remember seeing it there but I can't say that I did. Can't say whether it was there or not but it seems like when we were all driving down on Saturday afternoon if it was there it seems like we would have seen it. If he's hurt an ankle break a leg whatever he's going to be on that ridge a helicopter in 20 minutes is going to find him. A helicopter in 20 minutes is going to cover more than he can cover in hours of running. Ruling out foul play, I don't think he got lost.

15:42And if he's in that area, it'd have to be like an animal attack, I guess, you know? And man, I just really don't see that either, you know? There's going to be something. In every one of his pictures, he's wearing a hat. When you get mauled by a bear, your hat's going to fly off. Yeah. There's going to be something. And when they kill and eat stuff, it's a mess. Yeah. I mean, bears swiping away, there's going to be parts and pieces that the bear is not interested in. Yeah, they're not that efficient. They're like wolves. They'll leave half of a carcass. So wherever the bear got them at, there'd be some kind of evidence, you know, laying there.

16:22I guess that's my problem with the bear deal. There's tons of bears. That area was searched so good, and there's so many things that don't make sense. It just feels like a foul play deal to me. Nothing makes sense. Either he doesn't want to be found, or someone doesn't want him to be found. I know the helicopter pilot. He's awesome. He worked that whole ridge over, back and forth, five foot off the ground, 20 foot off the ground. There's a piece missing somewhere. If it's a girlfriend that had an argument with him on the phone, another girl in his life that's in Nome that isn't his technical girlfriend, a roommate that had a fight with him, or something.

17:09Things get botched, investigations. Just simple stuff wasn't followed up on. Zanya Ivanov. A lady watched her walk down the street and get into a cop car and drive away. She called it into the cops twice. Maybe I better not say anything more to the cops. She just got into a cop car the night she went missing. I... I'd just work everybody over. OK. The search for Joseph Balderas was the largest operation the city of Nome had ever conducted. His truck was found less than 40 yards from a natural stream, visible from the road. If he actually went out there to go fishing, how far could he have possibly wandered away from his truck?

17:54There's not a single trace of him anywhere.

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19:59There was such an exhaustive search for Joseph with helicopters, with people on the ground, with dogs. Maybe there was foul play involved. After everything and after all the things that I've heard and seen, I think the most likely things are that it was human involvement. Somebody either intentionally or accidentally killed him, and we didn't look in the right place. On a conference call, the first private investigator recalled a bizarre incident that occurred while they were out searching. Kevin Piscoya, he is Christine's uncle, 20-year veteran of the Air Force Base. He retired from it after 20 years, came back to Nome.

20:40He worked at the Nome Police Department for a very short period of time, about three months, for whatever reason, did not work there anymore. Kevin Pascoya, he's not talked about that much, but I think because he's an ex-cop. But he did some fuck shit. Kevin Pascoya, an ex-cop in Gnome and the uncle of Christine, exhibited some weird behavior. Kevin Pascoya went around in a side-by-side and ran over all the tracks. They screamed, they yelled, what are you doing? Why did you do that? Footprints and you just ran over them. That's bizarre behavior for somebody that has law enforcement training. Took his ATV down it and just ripped up the trail and ruined the scent.

21:24They were all like, why the fuck did you just do that? The cops don't really question him, I think, because he's an ex-cop. He might just be a bad, a dumb dummy. Yeah, a dumb dummy. Yeah, for sure. You don't even have to have law enforcement training. Just a normal person knows that if you're following a foot track, you don't go run over it. A normal person knows that. But for a cop that has been trained in the collection, preservation of evidence, that's really abnormal. He is Christine's uncle, which Christine is important because she's the last person that we know saw Joseph alive. A few months after Joseph went missing.

22:02Andy Klamser interviewed one of his co-workers in them. I actually went to lunch with him the Friday before he went missing. The actual Friday before that weekend? And why I remember that is we had a visiting judge here who'd been coming here off and on for several months filling in while Joseph's boss was out on sick leave. I remember that we went to lunch Friday and I remember at that lunch being annoyed with Joseph for looking at his cell phone while we were at lunch with the judge I thought that was very rude and it was kind of unlike Joseph he had enough people skills to know that was rude but he he kept doing it and then finally he said oh my roommate he went over on the internet usage and he was annoyed with that he must have got some notification from his internet provider saying that his roommate had used it all up and he was really annoyed by that he had rented a house that was right downtown and within the last four or months before he disappeared, had a new roommate, a local young man.

23:06I understand from friends that there had been a little bit of tension between the two. The roommate was younger and there was some partying. Joseph wasn't comfortable with that. Just a few days after he went missing, she made contact with Joseph's roommate, a man named Jake. She was desperately trying to gather all the facts and build out some sort of timeline. So she texted his roommate, Jake, about the last time he remembers seeing Joseph. I texted him what's on Monday, June 27th at 1120 at night. I'll read you what I typed. It says, hi, Jake. Search and rescue needs to double check what day and time did you last see him?

23:45What did Jake tell you? Jake responded, it was about one o 'clock

24:06If the roommate, Jake, saw Joseph in town at the house on Sunday, that changes everything. Could I take a picture of the text? The roommate was interviewed right away, told the troopers he was gone Saturday night with friends, but that he saw Joseph the next morning walking down the hallway in the house. Sunday morning, after Joseph had stopped responding to anyone. He's the only person who claims to have seen Joseph on Sunday. Joseph's last text to his fiancée was around 10 a.m. on Saturday. So did Joseph drive back to his house in Nome, then go back out again the next day? And if so, why wouldn't he respond to his fiancée, Megan?

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24:54It just doesn't make any sense. If Jake was the only one to have seen Joseph on Sunday, then that would mean Christine is not the last person to have seen Joseph alive. Jake is. Jake is also cousins with Christine. Christine, Jake is her cousin. The guy that lives with Joseph is her cousin. I don't like it. I kind of get a creepy feeling about it. Is there anything there? I don't know. I have not been able to interview Jake. I set up two interviews. He's never showed up to either one. I stayed an extra day there to try to interview Kevin Piscoya. I ran over the trail. I just know that something's not adding up right with that.

25:37Upon learning of Jake's alleged sighting of Joseph on Sunday, his family became increasingly concerned. The timeline, which was barely making any sense in the first place, was now a complete clusterfuck. The family felt that someone was lying. They met with the state troopers at their office in Nome. I know that the timeline doesn't make sense to you, and we know that his roommate says he saw him. People are mistaken. It could be that. It could be that he came back in, forgot his phone, but there's all these theories. But I don't have the answers. Nobody does. The roommate's Sunday. Do you know what he said about that?

26:10Like, yes, I saw him. I spoke to him. I saw him driving away. Like, what level of commitment do you think? They passed each other in the home. Inside the house on Sunday. Guys, I'll be happy to go talk to Jake again. On July 3rd, one week after Joseph went missing, the Alaska State Troopers went to Joseph's house to interview his roommate. This is the actual tape from their interaction. It's just really important for us to get this timeline figured out. I mean, we don't think that anybody did anything wrong, But what's really important to us, Jake, is getting these timelines figured out, because if we leave a gap in any of this time sequence that happened, people are going to fill it with whatever they want.

26:48The booze, the beer bottles and stuff, I'd give a damn about a beer bottle. I don't care. It's just really important to have the facts. I just want to know. I need to know exactly what happened so I can fill that sequence, because it's just important for me. You've got to understand that we're trying to help you pin this down, because when we leave here and we don't have answers, everybody's going to say, what the hell? with a homicide investigator and a technical crimes investigator here. People know why we're here, and they're like, holy shit, these guys are serious. Why are they here? They don't call us in for these for just whimsical things.

27:19During this interview, Jake remains almost completely silent, saying as little as possible. The troopers asked him about his alleged sighting of Joseph at 1 p.m. on Sunday. They, too, found this suspicious. On Sunday? on Sunday. When you say you saw him at 1.30, no one else saw him after that. No one saw him after you did. Let's call that last known live type thing. He didn't really talk to anybody after that. There was no communications. There was no contact with anybody on his cell phone or anything after Saturday. And I guarantee the family is going to be asking questions. and they sure did.

28:02One of the many issues with Jake's sighting of Joseph is that it contradicts two other sightings of Joseph's truck. The two families driving to a wedding, 10.45 a.m., Trooper Sergeant Cross, 1 p.m. Something seems very wrong about this. No matter how weird Jake's story is, he's stuck with it. But some of the details and exact times have shifted in nearly every version he's told. Initially he said, I saw Joseph, we said what's up to each other, then he left. But then later he changed it, actually I didn't see Joseph, I just saw his backpack and I assumed it was Joseph. And then later he was like, no actually I just saw a silhouette of a person and I didn't even say hi to them.

28:44It was like three times he changed his account of when and where he saw Joseph that day. Ultimately claiming that he couldn't actually tell for sure if it was Joseph, because of a glare from the sun. So if it wasn't Joseph, there's just some random ass dude in your house? That's even weirder. It is possible that Jake may have his days mixed up that weekend. Regardless, he's continued to claim that it was Sunday that he saw him, 24 hours after anyone else had seen or heard from him. Why would he say he saw him on Sunday? I don't understand why he would come home Sunday, afternoon, 1.30 p.m., after never getting back to his wife.

29:22Doesn't WhatsApp message her? It's strange. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, the whole thing just seems like a mess now. Why is it that the last two people to have seen Joseph alive, allegedly, or his roommate and a woman who is rumored to be romantically involved with him, not to mention their cousins, these are the last two people to see Joseph alive? What is at least significant here is that Christine is the only person who allegedly knew where he was going. Really, he drops off after he meets Christine at the beach. Unless... Well, there's no other... Unless Jake saw him Sunday. Christine's either trusting Jake's word, because that's her cousin, or going with the lie.

30:14Let's go back to Christine's story for a second. On Friday night, June 24th, she was at the bar with Joseph and her sister Kim until the wee hours of the morning. She claims that they're best friends and they're together all the time, but she keeps doing all these weird things, changing her story. Her story is inconsistent with her sister's accounts of what happened Saturday night. By the places that they went, by the things that they did, the stories just don't match up. Christine's sister, Kim, is like, oh yeah, I kind of thought they were boyfriend and girlfriend. Christine and her sister, Kim, have conflicting accounts of which bars they were at for how long and when.

30:52But there are two facts that remain consistent. Both Christine and her sister Kim claim to have been at the bar with Joseph first at an establishment called Polaris and then a place called Breakers. And that whole story about her phone being factory restored, to me it was a lie. Joseph's friend Cyrus expressed his concerns on a conference call. The account of Friday night between Christine and her sister and the fact that her iPhone was blanked in a way that is technically impossible. The way she said that her phone got erased, what her brother had done, and any permutation of that is not possible to have happened in that way.

31:31100 % impossible.

31:36Going through the thousands of pages of documents given to us by Joseph's family, I stumbled upon an old email exchange from that summer in 2016. I'm not friends with Christine on Facebook, so I can only see limited posts. But Selena is her friend and can see more. It seems like she's proactively covering her tracks to me. She mentions her phone being locked out repeatedly. That is not normal. It's also odd she forgot the content of the last two messages Joseph sent. She claims to have looked at them but can't recall what they say. For someone that's clearly in love with Joseph, I find it highly unlikely she forgot.

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34:01I just noticed a picture with Joseph on Christine's Facebook. it's at the bar and it says it's from mobile uploads wouldn't that mean for a matter of fact this came from her cell phone? Scrolling through Christine's Facebook they noticed a photo she posted on June 28th, 2016 three days after Joseph went missing and it's in the mobile uploads tab. It's a selfie photo of Christine holding her phone at the bar with Kim and Joseph right behind her Maybe I'm just hoping for things But I feel like this has to be a gotcha moment Dude This is a selfie It's Christine, Kim And Joseph All at the bar Does this not look exactly like The night she's describing?

34:52We gotta figure out what bar this is The caption on Facebook says This was taken about three weeks ago Feeling concerned Well, me too. This is Breaker's bar. If she factory reset her phone, then how on earth does she have this photo? Somebody is lying.

35:28Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner, with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik-Glen, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.

36:03Mix and Mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and The Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.

36:33Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door. expertly cleaned and folded so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you like tea time you or this tea time you or even this tea time you said you hear about Dave or even tea time tea time tea time you so update on Dave it's up to you we'll take the laundry rinse it's time to be great

From the publisher

Payne dives further into the interview tapes Andy Klamser gave to him and finds out as much as he can about Joseph's co-workers, their relationships, his phone messages, and further dives into how one of the last people to have seen Joseph had to wipe their phone the day after Joseph went missing.

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