In short
Up and Vanished - Episode 15: Jake's Interview
Podcast Overview Title: Up and Vanished Host: Payne Lindsey Description: An investigative true crime podcast exploring mysterious cold case disappearances in various locations. Season Overview:
- Season 1: Tara Grinstead's disappearance
- Season 2: Kristal Reisinger's case
- Season 3: Ashley Loring HeavyRunner's disappearance
- Season 4: Missing individuals in Nome, Alaska - Florence Okpealuk and Joseph Balderas
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Episode Summary
15 | Jake's Interview
Main Focus The episode centers around an interview with Jake, who provides insights into the life and circumstances surrounding Joseph's disappearance in Nome, Alaska.
Key Points Discussed:
- Jake's Background:
- Jake had limited interaction with Joseph, primarily knowing him through family connections, particularly through his cousin Christine.
- He mentions that he had spoken briefly with Joseph but did not have a close relationship.
- Joseph's Disappearance:
- Joseph went missing after a weekend of social activities, which included parties and bridge jumping.
- Jake recalls being at a party with Joseph the night before he disappeared, emphasizing a long conversation they had.
- Speculations on Joseph's Fate:
- Jake expresses concern over the possibility of foul play, suggesting that Joseph might have been killed based on the lack of evidence found during extensive searches.
- He comments on local wildlife, particularly bears, and the improbability of Joseph being attacked without any trace left behind.
Details of the Investigation:
- Interview Context:
- The interview was conducted by Andy Clamster in Nome, Alaska, on September 30, 2016.
- Jake discusses his interactions with Joseph, revealing limited information on Joseph's plans and activities leading up to his disappearance.
- Contradictory Information:
- Jake admits to feeling nervous during the questioning and recalls a moment of confusion where he provided inaccurate details to investigators.
- He reflects on the pressure he felt from the police and his desire to protect himself during the investigation, leading to inconsistencies in his story.
- Community Reaction:
- Jake notes the stress and anxiety within the community regarding Joseph's disappearance, highlighting the thoroughness of the search efforts.
- He emphasizes the emotional toll on families and friends as they seek answers.
Conclusions Drawn:
- Jake's Perspective:
- He concludes that Joseph's fate remains uncertain, and despite extensive searches, the lack of evidence leads him to suspect something sinister may have occurred.
- Investigation Challenges:
- The complexities of witness accounts, memory, and community dynamics are underscored in this case, illustrating the challenges faced by law enforcement in solving cold cases.
Final Thoughts: The episode encapsulates the urgency and emotional weight of missing person cases, emphasizing the importance of community involvement and the psychological impact on those left behind. Jake's interview provides a glimpse into the intertwined lives of those connected to Joseph and the painful quest for closure.
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Additional Resources
- Join the Discord Community: [Up and Vanished Discord](https://discord.gg/upandvanished)
- Privacy Practices: [Audacy Privacy Policy](https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy)
- Ad Choices: [Podcast Choices](https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices)
For a deeper understanding of the case and to follow ongoing developments, listeners are encouraged to engage with the podcast's community and resources.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
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2:57Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.
3:22During the day, on Saturday, June 25th, I went bridge jumping. But Jake was not there. Later that Saturday night, I went to a party at a camp outside Nome. The party was late. It probably started around 10 or 11 p.m. and went until 4 or 5 in the morning. Jake was at this party. I know that for certain. Because I talked to him, face to face for over 30 minutes. just me and him.
4:01I was having a drink, standing by a keg at the party, and that's when Jake first approached me. We talked for a while, then eventually, we walked off on our own. It's a little fuzzy because I had been drinking, but I remember we had a very long conversation. Off to the side. Off. Off. Off. Off. Off to the side. Off to the side.
4:36And then he kissed me. And he kissed me. Had no idea Christine even existed. Did not know that was his cousin. Did not know that Joseph was at the family dinners. Any of the Piscoya involvement. I knew none of that. said that it'd be really hard for me to believe that Jake would just outright do something on his own. But what I do think Jake would do is lie or cover up to save himself, especially if it was a family-related thing. Jake would 1 ,000 % lie or cover up or save himself. If Jake had any involvement, we feel like it would be to lie and cover up something that happened in the family.
5:47Waitin't we'll beabi? Peace Let's Take
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6:49And Mint is still premium, unlimited wireless for a great price. So, that means a half day. Yeah? Give it a try at MintMobile.com slash switch. A front payment of$45 for a three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile.com. All right, this will be an interview between Andy Clamster and Jake. Is it Stenton Benz? Yes, sir. And today's date is the 30th of September, 2016. The time now is 12.56 p.m. And we are at the Aurora Inn in Nome. So can you tell me how well you knew Joseph?
7:27I mean, I've talked to some people, and basically what people have told me so far is that you guys really didn't know each other. Big age difference, and you weren't there that long. I knew him as my cousin Chrissy's friend. That's what they kept it as, his friend. never told me anything about it. I knew about him last summer, but I knew his name last summer, and that stays true to the summer. I just know his name. Okay. And that was just from Chrissy? Yes. And so after you moved in there, did you guys get to know each other at all? Not at all. I mean, we said hi here and there if we were passing by each other in the hallway or in the kitchen or something, but that was about it.
8:16Okay. So based on the little bit that you knew about him, what were your general impressions of him? What was he like?
8:31One of my first impressions was that he was kind of an outgoing, you know, soft-spoken person. He always wanted to say hi to you or saying what you were doing, you know.
8:51Anything else? That's about it with me. I mean, if I saw him in the hallway, he'd be like, oh, hey, what are you doing today? And, you know, I would tell him, I'm just hanging out with my friends, probably going to the gym. Like, oh, yeah, I'm going for a hike today. Short and brief conversations. Mm-hmm. Okay.
9:17So did Joseph say anything to you about his plans to move to Juneau and get married in August? Wow, no he didn't. You didn't know that? No. I knew he was moving in August, but he didn't say where or to do what. He just said he was moving. Oh yeah, that's my plan too. I'm probably going to be leaving too, but things didn't fall through. Yeah, he was getting married to this gal down there and he was going to open a law practice, so big changes for him, you know. But it didn't sound like you guys had the kind of relationship where you'd share information like that. I frankly didn't know he was getting married to someone else other than, I thought, you know, he was still seeing my cousin Chrissy.
10:02Okay.
10:17So what was, I mean, I've interviewed Christine.
10:24Do you, I mean, what was his relationship with Chrissy?
10:34I don't really know. Whenever I went to my grandparents' house, You know how your family usually make fun of someone you're seeing when you're growing up. You're like, oh, yeah, it's your boyfriend, you know. It was kind of stuff like that. So I really, there was no solid info to me that they were dating or whatever you want to say. So I really couldn't tell you. I just figured because that's what the family talked about. What did the family talk about? It was just like, they were just joking around like I was saying. Like, oh, yeah, that's your boyfriend. Why isn't he here? You know. Did you get the sense that people in your family wanted them to be a couple?
11:15I think they wanted Chrissy to date him. It wasn't more of the family just for her.
11:28Did Chrissy ever talk to you about him at all? Not at all.
11:35I mean, did you ever get the sense that, you know, if he wanted to keep it as a friendship, she was willing to do that as, you know, as good as it's going to get, basically? I have no doubt that Chrissy would be totally fine with it. Okay.
11:53Do you have any idea what was going on in Joseph's life in the two weeks leading up to his disappearance?
12:06not in his work life, but there was a weekend. I'm not sure if it was two weeks prior, or maybe it might have been three weeks, but he said he was bringing a couple friends up from the lower 48, I'm assuming. They were in the house. I want to say there was two of them, but they stayed in a different room. I hardly ever saw him because I was working from age five so I left they were gone or sleeping still I got home they were out and great outdoors but other than that I didn't know about his personal life what was he like as a roommate um I can't say much about it but every day you know He woke up.
12:59I think he woke up before I did. He showered, and then I usually wait for him to get out of the shower so I could shower. And then by the time I got out, he'd be leaving for work. He'd usually walk to work if it was nice.
13:16Sometimes I'd get off a little early, beat him home. I'd usually stay in my room most of the time because that house we live in, that I live in, it's empty. Like no furniture or anything? There's one couch, there's a table, but that's about it. And I have a TV in my room, so I stayed in my room the majority of the time. So, like, we never hung out. Do you remember seeing him on the Friday night of that weekend he disappeared?
13:48No, because I was out on the teller road going, bridge jumping with, Sorry, not the Teller Road. Kugrok Road. Out bridge jumping with my friends. And who were you with?
14:13So this night gets a little vague for me because it's been so long. The people that I were with and how I got there, I'm pretty sure. And my friend Tyler and my friend Emory.
14:35And this is out by Salmon Lake on the Cougar Road, not on the Teller Road. Okay.
14:48And this is Friday night, not Saturday night, right? Yeah, Friday night.
14:55So still talking about Friday night. So do you know when, do you remember about when you got home after being out bridge jumping? I'm going to be honest with you, I really don't remember what time. Okay.
15:12So what's involved in bridge jumping? Basically what it sounds like. You just get up on the rail and jump off of it. Into the water? Yeah. Isn't the water cold? Oh yeah. That's the exhilarating part and the falling part, of course, but it's fun. I grew up doing it. And it was just the two people with you, the two guys? Yeah.
15:42Do you recall if Joseph's truck was there when you got home whenever that was?
15:57I don't think it was home.
16:02Because usually whenever it is home, I usually make a mental note in my head saying, oh, Joseph's home. Right. I don't recall making that note. So he was out partying that night with Christine and Kim. You know, we're not certain what time he got home. Was it daylight when you got home that night or morning? It was actually a really nice day, so I mean here, when it's super nice, the sun doesn't set for a while, so... I would have to guess... I don't know, 10, 30, 11, maybe. So it wasn't like early morning, I guess? Did you have friends over to the house on Friday or Saturday night?
16:55I didn't have friends Friday and most definitely didn't have friends the next night. I'm not too sure what we did.
Read the full transcript
17:11But it wasn't... I don't know if I was home or not, but... I don't know, I just don't remember. Okay.
17:27Do you remember Joseph saying anything about what he intended to do that weekend?
17:37He didn't run it by me.
17:50Were you aware of him going to the beach with Chrissy on Saturday? Saturday? Yep.
18:07No. He probably would have left like around noon.
18:18Okay, hold on.
18:29Okay, so he went missing Sunday afternoon, right? It sounds like it, because it sounds like you were the last person to see him. Okay, so I was confusing myself. I went bridge jumping Saturday evening. Okay.
18:52Do you remember what you were doing on Friday evening? No, I did not.
19:06Is it possible that you had friends over Friday evening?
19:20I honestly don't recall.
19:30Do you recall about what time you left to go bridge jumping on Saturday?
19:55I want to say I could have left anywhere between five or six. And we were supposed to meet up with a larger group of people, but they were at a different bridge. So we went looking, and then I think we finally found them at a bridge called Grand Central. So that's why it was late in the evening when I got back. Okay. And plus we were just enjoying the country, enjoying the views. It was a nice day from what I remember. Where is Grand Central?
20:44It's on the Kugruk Road right before Salmon Lake. Salmon Lake, I want to say it's at 34 mile on the road. Okay.
21:01Okay.
21:09And who was in that other group?
21:16Man, there was a lot of people.
21:32Thank you.
21:55See the thing is all summer we've been doing kind of the same thing going bridge jumping going out in the country it's just kind of hard to remember. Especially times? Yeah and people. Usually man if it's nice out, the weather's warm, it'll be a thought in all of our heads. Hey let's go bridge jumping and call all of our friends to go.
22:21it's been so long man I couldn't remember exactly it was all there
22:30do you remember anyone that was in that other group specifically no I don't how many people roughly
22:46I would say at least 15.
22:54And who did you catch a ride with out there? It was the same two people that I was with, my friend Tyler and my friend Emery. Okay. Okay.
23:07So it's pretty important for us to try and figure out who Joseph may have been close with around the time that he disappeared. Did he ever have any women over to the house at any time while you were living there? Not that I know of. Did he ever say anything about any relationships he had other than his friendship with Chrissy? Like I said, man, we never talked. Okay. Do you know if Joseph owned any firearms? I've never seen any. I assume he had one because he was always hiking. You know, that's something you might really need if you're hiking. Right.
23:53I don't know. The state troopers went over there one day after searching the house, and after thoroughly checking everything, they went back again, and they found a box of.44 ammo. Mm-hmm. And I think one was missing out of that whole box. Mm-hmm. Never seen a.44 or anything close to it in that house before.
24:21So it wasn't your ammo? Nope.
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26:16Hence$12.1. Offer for ad-supported Disney Plus Hulu bundle only. Then$12.99 a month or then current regular monthly price. 18 plus terms apply. What are your sort of gut instincts about what probably happened to him?
26:37I think something bad happened to him. My mom said when they were searching for him there was 30 plus bears in that area. I think a bear might have gotten to him. Does that happen out here?
26:56I want to say it does, but a large majority of the time they're going to find the body. And I started thinking about this whole thing all summer. It started to stress me out. And in my mind, I just been thinking, I probably think someone might have killed them. Because, you know, they haven't found a body yet. The dogs couldn't find them. There was helicopters. There was airplanes. There's a numerous people looking for him. And still to this day, there's no body. Right. Yeah, a lot of people have said that. A lot of local people have said that. If he got attacked by a bear, we would have found something.
27:34Yeah, something. But he doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would have enemies or be engaged in risky behavior or anything. It doesn't appear that way at all. I didn't get that vibe when I met him. My mom told me that he was a law clerk. I'm not too sure what he does, but I was told from my mom that he looks over the evidence of some cases. I don't know, that could have been a trigger. I don't know. Just like the rest of this town, I just want to know what happened.
28:16It's been a stressful summer. Let's live in an anchorage and come back to know what I didn't expect to do. Right, right, exactly. This is something you'd expect in Anchorage. Did you feel that the search was thorough and covered all the areas it should have?
28:38Thoroughly, yeah. Very thoroughly. My mom and her husband, they still go out. The Coast Guard was even up here. It kind of takes a big exclamation mark for the Coast Guard to be up here searching in their helicopter. Right.
29:00I don't know. I think the town just saw it as one big disappearance, and they couldn't supply answers because they don't have any info on them.
29:15Did you participate in the search at all?
29:21No. I went once with my friend Tyler. Just because, A, it was a nice day. Didn't really have anything to do that day, so I just took a drive down the road.
29:38Were you working when all this was going on, all the searching and everything? Yeah, I was working for the village of council all summer. And so once a month, for about a week, we would drive down the council, go up the river there, come back at the end of the day, drive back into town. So I'd be up and down all along that road. And, you know, I'd keep an eye out. but you know as the month passed the chances of him turning up were getting slimmer I guess you could say
30:23so was there any friction between you and Joseph over the internet account at the house no I was just
30:37what am I trying to say? I was actually going over the deal that we were going to make, and I pay half, you pay half, and we go half on the utilities every month. I never got around to it because I took myself a financial hole, so I was covering my ends, and then I was going to take care of that. But no, there was no friction.
31:07Any friction about anything else? I mean, sometimes roommates just don't, you know, they just clash on things. Yeah, I get that, but there was no communication between us other than those brief conversations. Okay.
31:27Did Joseph seem to drink very much?
31:34I would say he only drank beer every weekend.
31:41Do I mean to excess?
31:47I don't know. I only saw the beer that he bought. It'd be on the counter. Never seen him drunk. Had a beer in his hand. Okay.
32:03Do you remember seeing or hearing him return to the house in the early morning hours of Friday night, Saturday morning, like maybe 3 a.m. or so?
32:15No, I don't.
32:20You would have been home at that time, right? Oh, yeah, definitely.
32:27Do you have any suggestions for people I should talk to about his disappearance?
32:37No, I don't feel as if anyone in this town would know where he was or could get a better answer than what I gave you.
32:50You don't remember seeing him leave the house there on Saturday when he went to meet Chrissy at the beach? That is correct. I don't. Okay.
33:03Did your uncle Kevin ever stay there?
33:13I was gone all winter. I haven't been a gnome since August of 2015. He might have during the winter. But not while Joseph was there. I don't think so, no.
33:36Do you remember seeing the pickup that he was using at the house on Sunday?
33:44Do you remember hearing a vehicle leave on Sunday?
33:54No, I don't. What did you do on that Sunday?
34:06I really don't remember.
34:14Were you just waking up when you saw him in the hallway? Yeah, like, him opening the door was the first thing I woke up to. Okay. And I rolled over just to look, you know, just out of curiosity to see what it was. and you know there was a light coming up from the entrance way downstairs and so there was a light shining off the white wall so I couldn't really see who it was but I saw a shadow and I saw his red backpack which he always had I'm assuming So what did you do Saturday night when you got back to Nong from bridge jumping? Honestly more than Unlikely, I probably just went to bed.
35:05Do you have any independent memory of that night when you got back from bridge jumping? No. Do you remember if Joseph's truck was at the house when you got home Saturday night?
35:23No, I don't.
35:27Was there anybody with you when you got home? Nope. Did you just get dropped off? Yeah.
35:37And who dropped you off? The same person who brought me up for a gentleman, Tyler. I mean, it doesn't sound like any of you or your friends saw Joseph or the truck on Saturday or Sunday, other than when you saw him in the hallway. No. Well, my friends didn't really know him. They knew nothing about him. They met him the same time I did, you know, this summer. If that, they said hi to him, you know. And I didn't expect them to know him. I didn't expect Joseph to know them. I didn't know this guy at all.
36:21So had you driven out past the area of mile 44 on the council road on Saturday or Sunday? No. Did you have a vehicle available to you to use? When? Well, this time period, so the end of June, early July. No, I've never had a vehicle of my own this summer.
36:52Did Joseph ever talk with you about running out there on the council road in the area of mile 44? No, he didn't. Had Joseph ever said anything to you about wanting to go fishing out in that area?
37:11I don't think he ever did. Or not that I know of. Is that even good fishing out there? Yeah, there's some good fishing. You just got to find the right fish, know when to go. Because there's different times where different spawns are hatching. Some are dying. Some are actually young. They'll give you a fight. That's where the fun comes in. Are there other kinds of fish in there other than salmon? There's silver salmon. There's chama salmon. There's four different kinds. I just can't list them. I don't know. I was wondering if there were other kinds of fish other than salmon in their trout or other stuff.
37:49There might be trout. So I want to ask you about this whole confusing situation with the.308 rifle that somebody dropped off at the house. So that.308 rifle, my dad won it. I'm pretty sure he won it at one of the NRA banquets here. They give out raffles. Well, you got to buy raffles. So at that banquet, they'll draw tickets And you can go out and select the gun I'm pretty sure my dad selected the black three-way rifle
38:23So last winter, before I left for Anchorage to go to school I was living at my grandmother's garage There was a bed in there, you know, on a TV I had my own little set up So I brought the gun with me because I moved out of my dad's just a habit. I may have shot it once that winter and then I left. Kind of forgot about it. And then I moved back here after a while. I think my grandma reminded me that my rifle was there. Without telling me, my uncle brought it back to the house. And that was just before the state troopers searched the house again. They were like, oh yeah whose rifle is this? Me not knowing that my uncle dropped it off I said it's not mine I've never seen it before.
39:16Okay. And then So when the troopers asked you that did they show you the rifle or did they tell you there was a rifle downstairs? They told me. They had already taken it. Okay. So it's not like they showed it to you. No. They said it was a black 308 and a little light off went inside my head like oh you know i'm pretty sure i'm 308. and then i think fourth of july is when my mom told me that that was my rifle okay thanks for telling me and who told you that your mom yeah it made me look extremely bad to the stage troopers. It's me saying it wasn't mine. It turns out to be mine. Right.
40:14It's been a stressful summer. There might have been some confusion if you've talked to the state troopers before. They first asked me what I did that Saturday night and I couldn't remember to save my life. And so, on the spot, I've never talked to the state troopers like this about a missing person. So I made a dumb move and made up a story. That didn't help me at all. And then that rifle situation happened. Didn't help my case. And then all eyes started turning on me, but I don't know the guy at all, man. I wish I could help you guys. I'm with you in the same boat. I just want to find him. I just want to know what happened, but I wish I could tell you guys.
41:01What did you tell the troopers that wasn't true?
41:08That I went down the Teller Road to a different bridge, but instead we were on a Kupak Road. I mean, why not just tell them the truth? Because, I mean, nobody really cared. That's the thing though, they did care and I couldn't remember. To this day, I can barely remember. I mean, yeah, we're at the Grand Central Bridge, but that night they were asking, I could not remember at all. I was nervous because I was talking to them. I didn't have an answer for them. I should have said that, but I drew a blank, and that came out. Your uncle's a longtime trooper, right? Lonnie Pascua? Yeah. That was my uncle Kevin that dropped the rifle off.
42:03Right. So you told them this thing that wasn't true, and then what happened? They went straight to my friends, and they asked, and they got a different story, so that's where it didn't make me look good. That's where I was lying to them. And then they came back to me after all the questions and were like, well, we got the story from so-and-so. It doesn't match up with your story. What were you really doing? And what did you say at that point?
42:37I'm pretty sure it was the same thing. I just couldn't remember.
42:45but at that you know when they were talking to you that would have been like two weeks after so it was pretty close in time why were you having trouble remembering honestly don't know man um two weeks ago today i can barely remember what i did okay There was also an issue with apparently texting your friends to try and get them to create an alibi or to say that you were with them. What happened with that? I was just nervous, man. I didn't know how to deal with it.
43:26I was just trying to save my skin. You saved your skin from what, though? I'm not lying. But it's not like you were doing anything wrong. It's not like you were out robbing a bank or anything. You guys were just out doing stuff. I just, I didn't know how to handle it, man. This is the first time that I've dealt with something like this. Kind of a young kid. I don't know, it's just... I don't know, I didn't know how to deal with it.
43:54And so did you end up telling the troopers that you had texted your friends to try and create this alibi? No, I think they came to that conclusion after they talked to my friends. And then did they come back and talk to you again about that? I believe so. The friends that you texted, was that Emery and Tyler or Cass and Cam? It was Emery and Tyler. And how were Cass and Cam involved? I'm not too sure. That's the first thing I've heard of their names being drawn in. Okay. Were they out that bridge jumping that night? Do you remember? I don't think so. Yeah. Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph out on the council road on Saturday or Sunday?
44:46No, I don't. Do you know of anyone in Nome who was angry or upset with Joseph for some reason? No. So one of the other issues I wanted to ask you about, some of the family members when they were here searching had reported to the troopers that they saw injuries on your face. Can you tell me what those injuries were from? Yeah, so I was playing catch with one of my friends out at the Safety Roadhouse. We were playing football and made the brash decision of diving for it on gravel.
45:32That's where these two come into play for the Coddle case. And then I scrape my face. Maybe I'll take a quick picture of those. That was out at the safety roadhouse? Yeah.
46:10Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
46:24Can you turn your hands a little bit? There we go. And I just need to get kind of an overall picture over here if you can look up this way. Okay.
46:36Is there any way I pause this really quick and use the restroom? Yeah, no problem. Just go ahead. My third cup of coffee.
47:12and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.
47:51Thanks for listening.
47:59Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded, so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. or this tea time you, or even this tea time you. Sad you hear about Dave. Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great.
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