In short
Up and Vanished: Episode 21 - Payne Finds Jon... Again
Episode Overview In this episode of *Up and Vanished*, host Payne Lindsey continues his investigation into the mysterious disappearance of Florence Okpealuk in Nome, Alaska, focusing on a key figure in the case, John Gerton. John has proven elusive, making it challenging for Payne to gather critical information regarding Florence's fate.
Key Concepts and Themes
- Elusiveness of John Gerton: John is portrayed as a figure who often disappears from contact, complicating the investigation. His history and association with Florence Okpealuk raise significant questions.
- The Search for Truth: The narrative underscores the importance of uncovering the truth behind Florence’s disappearance while navigating the complexities of John's character.
- Connection to Law Enforcement: Payne's interactions with police and local community members depict the challenges faced in obtaining information and tracking John down.
Summary of Events
Introduction
- Host Introduction: Payne Lindsey introduces the episode and the ongoing search for John Gerton, detailing his previous encounters with him.
- John Gerton's Background: John is the last known person to see Florence Okpealuk alive and has a suspicious connection to her belongings.
Investigation Efforts
- Initial Contact: Payne recalls his first contact with John, who agreed to share his truth but subsequently vanished.
- Community Outreach:
- Attempted to locate John through local shelters and police departments, illustrating the challenges of finding someone who is intentionally avoiding contact.
- Engaged with community members who may have information about John’s whereabouts.
Discovery of John’s Location
- Community Assistance: Local listeners provide insights and tips regarding John’s potential whereabouts, leading to a confirmation of his car’s sighting.
- In-Person Encounter:
- Clyde, a process server, is tasked with delivering a phone to John, allowing for potential further communication.
- John’s reaction reveals his paranoia and a history of erratic behavior, complicating the investigation.
Confronting John Gerton
- Communication Established: After successfully delivering the phone, John engages with Payne, discussing the circumstances surrounding Florence's disappearance.
- Seeking the Truth: Payne emphasizes the need to uncover the truth about the night Florence went missing, questioning John's version of events.
Conclusion
- Next Steps: The episode concludes with anticipation for a face-to-face meeting between Payne and John, where more definitive answers may emerge regarding Florence's case.
- Teaser for Upcoming Episodes: The episode hints at more revelations and updates in the investigation, maintaining listener engagement.
Key Takeaways
- Complexity of John Gerton: John’s dynamic personality and unpredictable behavior make him a focal point in the investigation.
- Community Involvement: The role of community members is critical in helping Payne piece together the narrative surrounding Florence's disappearance.
- Persistence in Investigation: The episode showcases Payne's determination to uncover the truth, despite the obstacles presented by John's elusiveness and the sensitive nature of the case.
Reflection This episode highlights the intricate web of human behavior and relationships surrounding cold cases. The pursuit of truth remains at the forefront, illustrating the emotional toll such investigations can take on everyone involved, from the victims' families to the investigators dedicated to seeking justice.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
0:08As the weather gets cooler, I'm swapping in the pieces that actually get the job done. Warm, durable, and built to last. And Quince delivers that every time, with wardrobe staples that'll carry you through the season. Quince has all kind of fall staples that you'll actually want to wear on repeat, like 100 % Mongolian cashmere from just$60, classic fit denim, and real leather and wool outerwear that looks sharp and also holds up. Personally, I've got my eye on their suede trucker jacket. It's perfect for layering, and just looks really casual, but also put together. Quince partners directly with ethical factories and top artisans, so they cut out the middlemen, which means they deliver us premium quality at half the cost of similar brands.
0:52As we're easing into fall, my favorite thing that Quince has is by far their cashmere. The quality is incredible, it's soft, it's perfect for the cool fall air, and it's affordable. Quince has really become a go-to across the board, and they have seemingly everything. Bedding, bath, cookware, travel accessories. So go check it out. Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to quince.com slash upandvanished for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash upandvanished for free shipping and 365 day returns.
1:31Quince.com slash upandbanished.
2:01for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2:09Good morning, Facebook. Oregon John, a.k.a. Laychon John. Ha ha ha ha!
2:20You and the ass with a chainsaw. No, I didn't. I was trying to tell you to get out of my way, because you won't listen to reason, because you're too drunk, and don't belong to sleep. Yeah, well, You know what? You're still walking home, ain't you? No, you aren't. Holy moly. He just sent me a video of himself. Charging handle. Oh, yeah. Open! Oh, shit. My shoulder.
2:57Holy shit, that's a monster. Jesus. We all know how I first found John, with a fake name through a fake Facebook. I did, however, eventually reach out to John as the real me. All I want is the truth. John. Yeah. Yes. This is Payne Lindsey. Okay. Payne Lindsey. I'm the podcast guy. Oh.
3:32How's it going? Just like same shit, different day. Question for you. Would you ever be down to sit down one-on-one and just talk to me about everything?
3:50We can set the terms and, you know, make it comfortable for both of us, you know? you know um all i'd have is the truth you know that's it well let's talk about that we'll talk and we'll set something up i appreciate this got some stories for you you have no idea he appreciated this and honestly i did too but this is the last time i spoke to john on my last call he gave me his real number he said he wanted to tell me his truth but then nothing he vanished again and that's the thing about organ john he doesn't just disappear He seems to evade, mutate. He only becomes harder to find and harder to trust.
4:50And when he does show up again, you're never really sure who you're talking to. John Gerton isn't just some sketchy name that came up once. He is the last known person to see Florence Okpeolek alive. He had her phone, her things, in his tent. And somehow, he slipped through the cracks. He made wild accusations the first time I tracked him down last year and even then I walked away thinking who is this man what the hell am I really dealing with no matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case it always always goes back to John so in classic up and vanished fashion I found myself in a deja vu state starting all over again it was hard enough to find John the first time.
5:40This time, surely was not going to be easier.
5:51Call has been formed. Is that your fucking fax number? I'm so sick of this shit. The number John gave me was blocked. Or a fax number? I don't know. But of course it was. So what do I do? I first called the homeless shelter in Ketchikan. Hi, this is Ty. I called the shelter and I was given your number, I guess, if I had additional questions. I'm trying to locate one of my friends who I think may be staying there. So I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not. Just as a heads up, I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny if, you know, if I did give it to him or anything like that.
6:33So what is the person's name you're looking for? His name is John Girton. Okay. Hold on. John Gerton. One second. Let me look at something really quick. One second. So I can actually say that he is not staying with us. He is currently not a client with us. Is there anywhere else in town that is a similar establishment where he may be? No. No, we're the only shelter in town, unfortunately. If it's to the point of like a missing persons thing, you could contact our police department. Missing persons thing. Kind of ironic. But I guess John was missing too. He isn't a missing person per se. I would qualify it more like a hiding person.
7:24Okay. Yeah, yeah. I get you. I was trying to remember why the name sounded so familiar. and I do recall that there was a big flubub oh bad, it was a while ago, sometime last year and his name was splashed across Facebook Ketchikan related things, podcast and I do know that every once in a while his name pops back up on those things because people were pretty concerned about him obviously and I feel like there was some reports of some at least peculiar behavior if not concerning behaviors That's interesting I would definitely keep an eye on my catch can community news But no luck there On to the next part of my plan Let's just do what always seems to never work And call the police department 7-8-5-6 You have reached the catch can correctional center For an attendant, press 0
8:23Please spell the offender's first name using your telephone keypad
8:30I'm sorry, I can't find the offender you are searching for Well, that's a whole bunch of shit
8:40Administration, press zero Booking, press one Catch can't stay correct for center staff, Sergeant Bailey, how may I help you? Hey, Sergeant Bailey, how you doing? My name is Payne I'm trying to locate a man named John Gerton And I'm curious if he has been booked There's been no Gertin here. Do you know the best way to either online or through your establishment find out the records of this? Do you know where he resides? He's in Ketchikan? He's in Ketchikan, yes. You said his last name was what? It's Gertin. It's spelled G-E-R-T-O-N. What's his first name? John, just J-O-N. Okay, so I have a John Gerton from January 15th of 2025, born in Portland.
9:29That's him. That's the last time he was here, and he was released on January 15th. Arrested for violating a restraining protective order. So his case is not adjudicated, meaning that he's not been sentenced. The judge hasn't made a formal judgment related to this case. He was arrested at 241 Avenue. Door dash, driver, looking at this form shows that I fingerprinted him on January 15th. John was arrested in Ketchikan, currently out on bail. Jesse is a friend, there's just an emergency contact with no number associated. Another name, another rabbit hole. Jesse, Jesse, Jesse. Hello?
10:17Hey, is this Jesse? No. Wrong number. Okay, bro. You're getting a call back. The mailbox is full and cannot accept any messages at this time. Goodbye. Goodbye to you, too. Was that weird? Or am I letting my own frustrations get to me here? I didn't like the way that call ended. If John's living with this guy, I need to know that. James. James, can you hear me, man? Yeah. Okay, you don't have a brother named Jesse? No. Okay. My records show that you do.
11:09James? Yeah.
11:15I don't know who that is.
11:21I can't help you. Why not? Why can't you help me? James?
11:35Okay.
11:46His friend's address, which might be where he lives.
11:52Holy shit, yes it is. That's the same place that John wanted me to meet him at months ago. Property detail, yes. Rental property, number of residence, 19. John Allen Gurdon. Got your ass.
12:16Now, what's the smartest way to get a hold of him? I need to find a way to send a safe, professional person.
12:30A private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf. to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone, and tell him to fucking call me.
12:54Hi, so I just got off the phone with Otto. He likes to talk, so it took a while. He states that guy doesn't live up there. This is when I brought in Clyde. He's a process server, professional, tactical, and most importantly, local. I told him the whole story, everything. He didn't hesitate. Another guy named Jesse, the name John Gerton gave the police as his contact, very well could be staying with this guy. I know Jesse and his wife. And I wouldn't think he'd be staying with them. but who am I? Well, at least we have an in here. I will say that John has a history of doing cab driving, taxi driving.
13:44I've got no problem with, you know, going to the Ketchikan Lake Road and asking Jesse or Crystal, whoever comes to the door, if John's living there. He's not in trouble for anything, but he promised to have a conversation with me, and now I haven't been able to track him down. Really, I'm trying to make contact with him and give him the means to contact me. At this point, my plan was evolving. I wanted Clyde to find John however possible and give him a package from me. Inside, a simple one-page note in a prepaid phone that John can call me on. It wouldn't surprise me if a phone was given to Jesse, then John comes back home later, and John's like, oh yeah, this guy's crazy, throw that away, blah blah blah blah blah.
14:39So do you want to get me this phone? I first need to give Clyde the actual phone itself. But I am worried about Clyde giving it to anyone else other than John himself. Hey, just to let you know, AT &T doesn't sell burner phones. AT &T sells prepaid phones at Walmart. Then you take the phone to the AT &T store. They give you a phone number and you pick a plan you want. Any plan. I don't care. I'm going to drive out to Walmart and figure this whole thing out, okay? Clyde's at Walmart. No, I'll pay right now. She's hooking up the prepaid account. It's got both internet and minutes, she said. I've got this phone.
15:26What do you want me to do with it? I actually have a list of instructions that I've just finished writing out for you to keep it very simple. I'll attempt service of him at Jesse's house. I will check the court record where the restraining order was served upon him. Maybe now we're getting somewhere. I hope so. I went to Jesse's house. His wife was home. She was adamant that John has never lived there. she definitely knew who he was jesse called me knew who john was any inkling as to where he's staying because he has to be sleeping somewhere he's not nowhere he's in ketchikan he believes he's living in his car i've seen this car before i know exactly what it looks like i'm just driving by a early 90s Subaru Outback.
16:21Okay, I'm sending you two pictures and a video. It's white and it's looking like it's worse for wear and tear and it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there. Hold on. Oh, yeah, there's a dude in there sleeping. Is there somebody humped over in the front seat? so he's either dead or asleep in one or the other. He found a white 90s Subaru, beat up, sun-faded, with a man hunched over in the front seat. John? John? Hey. Hey. Look at me. Yeah, yeah. Are you John? I am. I'm looking for you. Okay, wake up. It's okay. What's your name? Ted. Oh, you're Ted? Where'd you get this car from? My friend.
17:26Okay, who's your friend? Daniel. Oh, Daniel? Because I thought this was John's car. I thought it was John's car, too. How many white Subarus were in Ketchikan?
17:40In football, value isn't just about making flashy plays. It's about consistency, durability, showing up. Week after week, season after season. That's Toyota, the brand built for the long game. Award-winning quality, legendary reliability, and a lineup of vehicles that hold their value against the toughest competition. Every play, every drive. It's no wonder Toyota was named the best resale value brand for 2025, according to Kelly Blue Book's KBB.com for the fifth year in a row. and why Toyota's proud to be the official automotive partner of the NFL. Because like every great team, Toyotas are built to go the distance.
18:24For great deals and reliable vehicles you can count on, visit buyatoyota.com. That's buyatoyota.com. Vehicle's projected resale value is specific to the 2025 model year. For more information, visit kellybluebookskbb.com. Toyota, let's go places. Are you feeling overwhelmed with all the supplements out there? We get it. There's a lot of misinformation and fake claims. That's why Gruen's took the time to understand proper dosing to ensure nutrition is optimized and safe. Gruen's uses a convenient, comprehensive formula. Are you currently taking multiple supplements a day? This isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a prebiotic.
19:05It's all of those things and then some at a fraction of the price. And bonus, it tastes great. I love that even when traveling around for the holidays, I can still maintain this healthy habit since Gruen's is portable, and I look forward to actually taking it. There's eight gummies in each daily snack pack because you can't fit the amount of nutrients that Gruen's do into just one gummy. Plus, it makes a fun treat. Gruen's is vegan, pectin-based, not gelatin, nut-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, no artificial colors or flavors. Generic multivitamins only contain around seven to nine vitamins, whereas Gruen's have 20 plus vitamins and minerals and 60-plus whole food ingredients.
19:43There's a low sugar or a sugar-free option. Also, it's HSA and FSA eligible for reimbursement. Gruen's contains six times the gut health ingredients compared to the leading Gruen's powders. It contains biotin and niacinamide, which result in thicker hair, nails, and healthy skin. Gruen's contains mushrooms, which can lower the chance of mild cognitive impairment and symptoms like brain fog. Gruen's also contains vitamin C, which reduces immunity-damaging, stress-inducing free radicals. This is especially great during cold season. Gruen's ingredients are backed by over 35 ,000 research publications.
20:20You wanted a supplement that you could actually enjoy. This isn't a chore. It's something you can look forward to. Get up to 45 % off. Use the code TENDERFOOT. Ready to level up? Chumpa Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go, let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today.
20:57No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void war prohibited by law. 21+. TNCs apply.
Read the full transcript
21:06Last year, a listener of Up and Vanished, who lives in Ketchikan, sent me pictures and video of John's car. I need to confirm if this is actually his car or not, and also where those pictures and video were actually taken. Sorry for the random call. If you have two minutes, I'd love to chat. It's kind of urgent.
21:36so I texted her and just FaceTimed her. Hell yes. Did you mean to FaceTime me? I did. Okay. I'm like, there's a 310 number calling me. I don't know who it is. And then I said Payne Lindsey, and I'm like, oh, that's that podcaster. You're like that guy. How can I help you today? Maybe this listener, a local in Ketchikan, can confirm whether or not this is actually John's car. It's listeners just like her who truly make a difference in these cases. And her willingness to help out of nowhere is the exact energy we need to solve this thing. She FaceTimed in another friend. This lady told me that she saw John's car parked at the local McDonald's literally yesterday.
22:24She was around the corner from that same McDonald's, so she pulled up. I just ordered some food. I'm sitting at a table. I can see him. He's in that camel coat he's always wearing. Sure enough, there he was, John Gerton, sitting in a chair eating lunch. We do live on an island and driving around town, and there he was sitting in McDonald's. Okay, this situation just went from urgent to frantic. I called Clyde. He's at the McDonald's right now, but he's finishing his meal, and he's about to leave. One of our fellow listeners in Ketchikan stayed at McDonald's on the phone with me. John was getting up.
23:10He was done eating. Then he walked out the door. This cannot be how this ends. Clyde, please get there. Hey, John. Oh, jeez. You scared me, sir. Clyde pulls up just in time. Hey, my name's Clyde. Yes. Hey, I was asked to drop this off with you. It's a brand new phone with a note in it. And I was just, somebody dropped it by my office today and asked me to get it to you. Okay. Somebody thought it would be a funny idea when I'm Facebook on Ketchikan Community Cycle that I was a murderer. You're a murderer? Mm-hmm. And I've got federal credentials. How did you get murdered? From Girl and Nome. Oh, okay.
23:58I lived up there for four years with a gold miner. I started receiving death threats. People hit me with their car. So I went up to the police. But I mean, you didn't murder this joke up there. The police goes, yeah, we already heard about this. We had a complete investigation. No police department doesn't even know who you are. Well, that's not true. Now, he just has to take the package. I got robbed by a homeless person out here, and I pressed charges. Well, how do you get robbed by a homeless person, man? you're a pretty big dude. It looks like you could take care of yourself. It was a female.
24:33And I don't hit women. Thanks for letting us know. It's funny the way he talks so openly. Clyde shook John's hand and left. Are you ready to talk? I'm ready to talk. Okay, it's all taken care of. He's got the phone. And life is grand, I guess. I talked to him for six or seven minutes and he went on about this, that, and the other thing. He's going to church. His wife is in the Philippines. I said, well, you know, it's a phone with minutes on it. You're good to go. You know, call whoever you want type thing. There's a note there for you also. He just kept talking. He went on about how he got to town, and somebody said he was a murderer.
25:19I said, who did you murder? And he says something about some girl up in Nome. And I said, well, did you murder her? And he goes, no. because I was cleared. But it just went on and on like that. Clyde's job was done. He successfully delivered the package to Oregon John. Hearing the tape from Clyde and John talking felt very reminiscent of my time with John at the local bar. If John Gerton was cleared, I wouldn't even be talking to you today. I know John had the phone. He held it in his hand. I have video of this. Now, all I could do is wait.
26:03My mind's going in all different directions. Is he reading my letter? What's he going to think? Is this a lifeline? A trap? A test? All three? I want to follow up on my end of the deal. Giving John one last chance to clear the air about everything. despite being thousands of miles away this was the closest I'd been to him in months
26:43hello hi is this uh pain this is pain this is John yes sir so you got the phone yeah
26:57I believe in telling the truth as much as I can remember it or anything. You know what I'm saying? I want to get down to brass tacks again. Because I don't want to keep doing this, you know? I really reached out to this degree to try to give you a chance to say anything that you wanted or needed to say. so that you don't go down as the bad guy.
27:29I could not fathom how much it would take to even do something, let alone so cleanly, you know what I mean? It's impossible.
27:47How is this where nobody knows nothing, you know what I'm saying? or there's no proof of anything, you know. You know, I mean, because I, you know,
28:04that's what mind boggles me so much. The thing is, my biggest question is why? What do you mean? Why would somebody choose her?
28:51We'll see you next time. easier. Find great jeans starting at$29.90 in stores and at marisas.com. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase.
29:25That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. Mint is still$15 a month for premium wireless and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's$15 a month. Two, seriously, it's$15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash
30:02He's the last person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone, her things, inside his tent. His stories don't make sense. He doesn't have an alibi. He made wild accusations, paranoid rants, rambling stories that didn't line up. He played the victim. claimed he was being framed, and maybe he believes that. Or maybe some of what he's saying is true. That night, I talked to John for hours, and then hours again the next night. All these calls are recorded, and you're going to get to hear them. And right now, John says he's ready to talk in a different way. In person, man-to-man, face-to-face.
30:46To finally tell me his truth. So this week, we're meeting, and hopefully I walk away with the answers I need to solve Florence's case once and for all. But here's the thing with John. Which version of him am I going to get? What version of the truth is he ready to tell? Because this isn't just about finding John. It's about finding out who john really is and what if anything he had to do with flo's disappearance
31:19just when i thought i had my hands full with orgin john another bombshell dropped my brother on my dad's side he was married to kim piscoya during the time joseph went missing I really think he knows something about the truck, Joseph's truck. But the Piscoys have a good grip on him.
31:44He's not coming forward every time I bring it up to him. He's very hush-hush. I think he parked it. He helped park Joseph's vehicle.
31:57I think he didn't know what he was even doing at the time.
32:03My gut feelings are almost always right. You really need to talk to my brother. Oh, don't worry. We already did. Keep your friends close.
32:21Stay tuned for another update this week on when to expect the next episode. But I promise you, the team and I are busting our ass. And our number one priority is that we do this right. I'm meeting with John Gerton this week. In the meantime, you can follow my Instagram for faster updates. My handle is at PayneLindsey. And the same for Up and Vanished, at Up and Vanished. Talk soon.
32:56As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language, on desktop or mobile, whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. With 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more, Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth.
33:36Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Listeners of this podcast can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50 % off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com slash RS10 to get started and claim your 50 % off today. Don't miss out. Go to RosettaStone.com slash RS10 and start learning today. In 2007, a man was murdered in a quiet Memphis suburb. The case was closed fast, maybe too fast. I've spent the past year retracing the investigation, following the evidence and the lives that were forever changed. What I found wasn't just a case.
34:16It was a story too important to stay buried. I'm Stephanie Tinsley, and this is Everything They Missed, a new true crime investigation. Episodes drop weekly. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
