4 | Fact or Rumor?

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1:31you're listening to up and vanished in the midnight sun a production of tenderfoot tv in association with odyssey the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating this podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone listener discretion is advised

2:14You are not going to believe what the Gnome City Hall just said back to us. You are not going to believe it. They gave us a report on Oregon John. Age, 52. Weight, 270. Additional remarks from the known PD. John has made threats to the known police department if any law enforcement approaches his tent on West Beach. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. In this report, there are 93 incidents. Disorderly conduct. Vehicle theft. Assault third degree. Cruelty to animals. Harassment. Probation violation Theft second degree Property theft Harassment Theft second degree Assault third degree Assault fourth degree Assault third degree Cruelty to animals Sexual assault first degree Probation violation Criminal trespass Assault fourth degree Sexual assault first degree Known aliases Oregon John

3:25Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, I'm your host Payne Lindsey, and this is Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun.

4:02Buckle up, Cooper. Safety first. Oh, man, okay. So far, it seemed like everything in the universe was pointing us towards Oregon John. The circumstantial evidence, all the different stories about him, and not to mention the massive list of criminal offenses. It all seemed pretty undeniable. But things were about to take a turn after receiving a text from Sue Steinecker, the longtime local here in Nome. She apparently has all this information about Flo's disappearance. We'll see exactly what she means by that. She told me she has what she feels is some very strong evidence of what may have happened to Flo that night.

4:47The pieces that I keep putting together, I put a lot of value in these texts. A series of text message screenshots. They make a lot of sense to me. Many of these messages contained graphic details of what allegedly may have happened to Flo that night. There's enough information in there about what happened. These text messages were sent out to different people here in Nome, but they all came from the same person. She goes by... For the time being, I'm going to censor her name in the podcast, and I'm going to refer to her as Kelly. She seems to be really troubled by this. This isn't the only text.

5:42This woman, Kelly, described in great detail on multiple occasions to different people in Nome the circumstances of Florence Okpialik's murder that night. I have since verified that these texts are in fact real. As a warning, the following statements are very graphic in nature. To avoid confusion and to protect myself, all the names that Kelly mentions in her text messages are going to be censored for the time being. But don't worry, we know exactly who they are. The first text message sent from Kelly states the following. I went to the lead FBI investigator last year, and they recorded me and took my statement.

6:26My ex-boyfriend is named ***. He was very gone in his mind during the time Flo first went missing. He said things to me which is a long story. But anyway, him and are the ones that are highly involved with Flo's disappearance. was telling people that they killed Flo and chopped her up and put her in the water. in his own ways, always confessed to me with his involvement. The police know all about this, and it's a long story. But they need to put pressure on them, because one of them will crack. and tell what they did. There is a lot more to this story though. These messages from a woman I'm calling Kelly paint a graphic tale of Flo's murder on the night she went missing.

7:24She implicates three individuals, two men and one woman. One of the men being her ex-boyfriend, who she claims confessed all of this to her. And before you ask, Oregon John is not one of these names. This whole new theory seemed to come out of nowhere. Lots of details and different names. But it's worth noting that it's only coming from one person, at least that we know of now. Then there was another one where she apparently sent this text to a friend who then sent it to Flo's brother, and they shared it with me. They cut her up after getting her high. They said she was screaming too much and freaking out.

8:10So they did that to her.

8:15I told *** they should have record or report him. Don't know if it's true. I don't know. Fucking freak me out. They said they cut her up and hit her by Solomon or something. and not all of the stories jived so that's a little confusing these messages were horrific and they introduced three new players into the mix none of whom are organ john is all this true and it's hard to imagine why somebody would make this up. Unless we don't have the full picture here. One step at a time. Remember how Oregon John told the bartender Naomi about having Flo's cell phone that night? Her cell phone and shoes being found outside of a tent.

9:09A pretty big deal if it's true. Sue, through her own sleuthing, heard a very strange story about that cell phone from a source inside the search and rescue team. Upon examination of Flo's cell phone after she went missing. They discovered one last phone call she made that night, and it paints an eerie picture. Right before Flo's phone died, she said I'm in the bushes with some people and they're passing something around and I don't feel safe. That's pretty telling if that is true. Yeah. That's hearsay for me. Whereas these I've seen, I can read them.

9:55just when it felt like things were starting to make a little sense all of a sudden they don't anymore I've experienced this before and it can be maddening so what really happened that night

10:10is Oregon John the world's unluckiest man who's also a violent criminal maybe and who's this other group of people that Kelly's talking about Who is Kelly in the first place? Why is she saying this at all? And why is no one else saying it? I had to take a minute to rack my brain. In a way, it feels like I'm starting over. The whole scope of my investigation just got a lot wider. The one thing that did stand out to me can only be traced back to one person, Kelly herself. I've heard a lot of wild, wacky theories investigating cold cases. And to be honest, it just comes with the territory and you really have to be careful you can't be too quick to throw something out but you have to try your best to stick to the cold hard facts what are the facts and what are the rumors and those things can change and evolve throughout your investigation the bottom line is that right now there are no facts to back up Kelly's claims I need to find the real Kelly and talk to her myself

11:19I had to take a break from my investigation and head to Orlando for a conference. I had a speaking engagement at an event called CrimeCon. It's a bizarre thing. Every year, thousands of true crime listeners meet up in one place. Experts, creators, podcasters, former law enforcement, advocates, and even the families of victims. it's definitely a one-of-a-kind event but at its core the biggest value that it brings is to the victim's families a safe place to connect with others and actually attempt to solve the cases i'm vinnie politan welcome to closing arguments great to have you with us tonight we are live in orlando florida it is crime con 2023 true crime really lives through these stories that take us to places that we haven't been and uncovering things we haven't seen.

12:16Joining me right now, Payne Lindsey. Great to see you, Payne. What's your obsession right now? I've been going back and forth to Alaska all summer. I'm at the point now where I'm kind of closing in on the circle of suspects that I think may be involved. I was on a panel, and other members of the Tenderfoot team for running a podcast booth in the lobby. During my presentation, one of our producers, Jamie, was given a random pamphlet from a complete stranger. I love a good t-shirt. And before Jamie really had a chance to look at it, the lady who gave it to her was gone in the crowd. Inside this paper brochure that was randomly given to one of our producers at CrimeCon was the missing poster for Florence Okpeolek.

13:08and a written summary of details on her disappearance.

13:14But here's the thing. At this point in time, nobody, and I mean pretty much nobody, besides a few of our producers, knew that I was investigating Flo's disappearance. By design, I was keeping it a secret. Nobody could have known about this. So what on earth? How? Who left that? It kind of still gives me goosebumps thinking about it. It's one of those weird moments that just feels too uncanny. What are the odds? Nome is so incredibly far away from here, and this isn't a popular case on the internet. I've read everything there is. The woman who left the brochure wrote down her cell phone number and Alaska area code.

14:04Right away, I called her. I didn't know you were working on a podcast for Flo. I wanted to reach out to you because all of the news coverage that I read was very lacking in detail. Her name is Rachel Ventress. She lives in Nome, and she came all the way to Orlando in hopes of spreading the word about Flo's disappearance. Not knowing at all that we were actively investigating her case. I've been in communication with a detective from Homer who has decades of experience solving cold cases. Flo's mom actually met him, Flo's mom and Blair. They wanted him to come up and look for a case. We had a meeting with the city manager and with the new chief of police.

14:58a very weird meeting. She had met with the city manager and the known police chief, Investigator Crockett, the guy I was never able to get a hold of past our brief exchange in the precinct's lobby. As a concerned citizen, she wanted an update on where the investigation stands. And according to Rachel, during this meeting, it took a weird turn. It was revealed to her that the known police department has no case file on Florence Okpeolek in their possession at all. Basically, they said that they don't have a case file on flow. The Nome Police Department has not kept a case file on flow. Except the FBI took it over.

15:46I emailed the FBI, and they just deferred me back to the Nome PD. So, what's going on here? I asked a bunch of questions like, when did the FBI take over this case? They said just soon as the FBI landed in Nome. So all these years, that Flo's family has been calling for an update should they have been directed to the FBI? The new chief was extremely uncomfortable and just not wanting to answer questions. It was just very weird. The information wasn't matching up. Years ago, the FBI came in to help search for a couple of days. But that was almost four years ago now. And I hope this doesn't mean that there's literally been no investigation since then.

16:38It's all very shady and suspicious. How does the FBI have jurisdiction if it's not on federal, it wasn't, the crime wasn't on federal land and the suspects that we know of, none of them are natives. And they said, well, we asked the FBI. to come up here so we gave them the case. I was like, so can you just ask for it back? And they're like, well, like, they're just telling me bullshit. They're just telling me bullshit. That isn't true. What a mess. Rachel had an idea to bring up another retired officer from Homer, Alaska, to personally investigate Flo's case. And he wants to do it. And apparently, despite all the chaos in the known police department, There's money in their budget to hire him.

17:24In Rachel's meeting, this was one of their primary topics. So I don't know how it's all going to pan out, but that's really what we're pressing for right now is just we need pressure on the city to work with him regardless of what kind of fallout there is. Like, you guys already fumbled this so badly. Let's just quit messing around. Yeah. It felt like for three years, there's absolutely nothing done on this case. So if all this is true, excluding random tips from the community, it could mean that literally since September of 2020, law enforcement has not been investigating this case. Or at least that there's no case file to show they have.

18:06Or they conduct interviews and just don't write it down? I really don't know here. But the whole thing is problematic, no matter what.

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20:02Friends and family of Florence have been hard at work for almost four years now, doing their own investigation. We've heard from Deila, Sue, Wendy, her sister Blair, Rachel, the local journalists. They've all collectively taken matters into their own hands. And frankly, because they had to. Those first 48 hours after someone goes missing are incredibly crucial. The more we can know about that time period, the closer we can get to fitting any of these pieces together. Who was around back then? What were they saying? What was it really like on West Beach? And what can we possibly learn from that all these years later?

20:47I spoke to another friend of Flo's who wishes to keep her name anonymous. From day one in this case, she has undoubtedly been a leader in the community's search efforts. No NPD didn't go out till day four. We didn't do the community-wide sweep until day six. It's when we called them, asking if they had any active strategies for Florence Okpeolek. They laughed at me. The day after Flo went missing, she was searching up and down the beaches, interviewing people on her own, and documenting all of it in real time. I'm just going to make a video. And we gotta go to that tent. And that tent, this is what miners do to our land.

21:38They come here, they live here illegally, they tear up our land, they leave their trash, they bring drugs, they rape our women, they steal our women. Nobody does anything about it. We want justice for flow. She sent me a video from their very first search, making their way through the tent camps on West Beach. It's an extremely important moment captured in time. Somebody on this beach has something to do with Flo's disappearance. In the video, you can see dozens of tents lining the shore. Some ATVs, old beat-up trucks, small John boats, and washed-up trash and debris everywhere. It looks like a junkyard.

22:27They were looking under tarps. That wasn't there before. Digging through the sand. We need more gloves. In search of any sign of Florence. Flo, give us your energy. Yeah, Flo. Is that where the footprints are? Hey, look for female footprints, guys.

22:53When we found her footprints on the mudflats, they refused to come out. She was on West Beach at a gold miner's tent. A lot of people have talked about how he's involved with the drugs in them. The man she's referring to is Oregon John. It gets really strange. She told me that the Chief of Search and Rescue approached Oregon John's tent on West Beach and he personally retrieved Flo's cell phone from him. The Chief of Search and Rescue, he told us that he went and talked to John himself and he got Flo's phone from him. He verbally told a whole room of people at the search and rescue meetings. He told us that he went and talked to John himself John was very kind, very calm, and he took Flo's phone from him.

23:54So if Flo went somewhere else, besides Oregon John's tent that night, she did so without bringing her shoes, shirt, jacket, and her cell phone. Flo's friend also talked to the occupants of several other tents that were adjacent to Oregon John's. Other neighboring gold miners, they heard her screaming. They talked about how he took her on a floor or up the beach, never came back with her. He came back really hungry and irate, 10 the next morning, very angry, demanding food. A story she was told by one of the miners camping next to Oregon John's tent was the same story I'd heard before from Wendy and Blair.

24:39Flo on the back of the four-wheeler and went up West Beach. And he didn't come back till morning, but he came back without her. Remember the story that Sue had heard about Flo's last known communication on her cell phone that night? Right before Flo's phone died, she said, I'm in the bushes with some people and they're passing something around and I don't feel safe. She tracked down the friend who Flo actually talked to that night, and she messaged her directly about her last exchange with her. This is the last known communication from her cell phone. I was talking to her the night she was missing.

25:23I asked her if they were on drugs. She said they were in the bushes throwing the drug out to her. She said there were three men. I don't remember the names. A few had nicknames as names. Nicknames. The last phone call Florence made on the night she went missing paints an eerily similar picture to that theory we heard about from Kelly, the lady who sent out those text messages. Except there was one major difference. In the messages from Kelly that I saw that Sue showed me, she described two men and one woman. But in Flo's last known phone call to her friend, Florence herself says she is with three men.

26:08Some of them have nicknames. She said there were three men. I don't remember the names. A few had nicknames as names.

26:18A crucial and unique detail that's different than what Kelly was saying in all of her text messages. Speaking of Kelly, Flo's friend was also aware of this theory. She'd seen those messages too. But she also had a very odd personal exchange with Kelly during the first couple days of the search Kelly made a comment that stuck with her forever and has reshaped her entire perspective on Kelly's theory.

26:51She's referring to Kelly.

27:07to research areas that you've already searched. I think she's a lot closer than you guys think. Why would Kelly think that? Does she know that? I have a screenshot of her basically admitting that Swell was dead in her presence a day after. It does tie back to John. I've been sent the screenshots of her exchange with Kelly, and the story goes a lot different. She asked Kelly, was John a part of it or was it just these other two guys? Kelly responded, no, it was John and my ex-boyfriend that did something to her, I believe. But I believe in my heart that John and my ex-boyfriend are the ones that did something.