In short
Podcast Notes: Up and Vanished - Episode 6: Two Truths and a Lie
Overview In this episode of *Up and Vanished*, host Payne Lindsey explores the mysterious disappearances in Nome, Alaska, focusing on an encounter with a suspect known as Oregon Jon. Lindsey uses a fake identity to engage with Jon, attempting to uncover details about his involvement in the disappearances, particularly that of Florence Okpealuk.
Key Players
- Payne Lindsey: Host and investigator.
- Oregon Jon: Main suspect in the disappearance case. Known for questionable behavior and claims surrounding missing persons in Nome.
- Producers: Cooper, Mike, and Dylan accompany Lindsey to record the encounter.
Episode Description
- Setting: A bar in Ketchikan, Alaska.
- Objective: To covertly meet and converse with Oregon Jon under a fake identity to gather information without revealing Lindsey’s true purpose.
Meeting Oregon Jon
- Lindsey uses a fake Facebook persona to arrange a meeting.
- Multiple recording devices are set up for covert audio capture.
- Initial small talk leads to deeper discussions about Jon's past and experiences in Nome.
Conversations Highlights
- Jon discusses his time as a cab driver in Nome, revealing unsettling anecdotes.
- Claims made by Jon about the local women and instances of exchanging sexual acts for rides.
- Jon mentions a woman who went missing after visiting his tent, implying he may know more than he reveals.
Jon's Claims and Alibis
- He asserts that he was the last person to see Florence alive, claiming that she passed out in his tent.
- Describes being cleared by the FBI and insists he was not involved in any wrongdoing.
- Makes dubious claims of corruption within Nome's law enforcement and recounts a convoluted story about being held captive and injected with hepatitis C.
Key Themes and Concepts
- Delusion and Reality: Jon's storytelling is filled with contradictions, exhibiting signs of delusion. He portrays himself as a victim of circumstance.
- Corruption in Law Enforcement: Jon claims that Nome's police force is corrupt and that he was wrongfully suspected.
- Victim Blaming: He suggests that women who go missing are often involved in risky behavior which places them in danger.
Investigation Techniques
- Covert Recording: Utilizes hidden recording devices to capture the conversation.
- Fake Identity: Employs a fabricated persona to gain Jon's trust and elicit information.
Conclusion of the Meeting
- Jon invites Lindsey (as Eric) to join him at a gun range the next day, which raises concerns for Lindsey about personal safety and the implications of further contact.
- Post-meeting, Lindsey and the production team discuss Jon's behavior and statements, highlighting the inconsistencies and alarming nature of his narrative.
Reflections and Next Steps
- Lindsey considers the implications of Jon’s claims and the potential for future interactions.
- The team decides to take precautions moving forward, given Jon’s unpredictable nature and previous allegations against him.
Takeaways
- The encounter with Oregon Jon underscores the challenges of investigating cold cases where suspects exhibit erratic behavior and delusional thinking.
- Lindsey's approach of using a fake identity may yield more information but poses significant risks.
- Further investigation is needed to untangle the web of Jon's claims, particularly concerning the missing persons cases in Nome.
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Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. The holidays are here and wow, they're busy. It's easy for your wellness goals to slip. That's why I rely on Bruins to stay on track. They're a daily snack pack of gummies that's more than a multivitamin, a greens gummy or prebiotic. It's all of that at a fraction of the price. And the best part, they taste amazing. Each snack pack has six grams of prebiotic fiber, three times the fiber of leading greens powders and more than two cups of broccoli, plus 20 plus vitamins and minerals, vegan, nut-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, no artificial colors or flavors.
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1:26A deep dive to uncover answers about COVID-19. Available now. wherever you get your podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is released every Friday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad-free listening, exclusive bonuses, and early access starting next week, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts.
1:54Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.
2:20I mean, it's rare that you can sit down and talk like this with somebody who's the main suspect. I don't see the upside of coming clean with him. If he ever finds out who I was or looks me up, he'll know that that's me. Figure out a way to just sort of continue the friendship without seeming weird or anything. Do I abort this altogether and surprise him as Payne Lindsey? What do we think is going to happen when I do that? Nothing good, I'm sure. Do I proceed as this Eric character, my fake Facebook, and try to meet him as this person? Looking at all the options, my best course of action for the biggest yield would be to meet him as this fake person.
3:08He might just not believe me. The worst thing that would happen is he stops answering. The real worst case scenario is you show up at the door and he pulls a gun on you and shoots you. That could happen. This is the dilemma I've never been in before. I think this is a better way to do it. You're not going to get these comments so you get in a bar drinking with him. I think this is a better way to do it.
3:38He just sent this to you? Why in the world would he do this? Why in the world would he beat you? And why would he want to form a friendship based upon somebody reaching out on Facebook? I mean, it's bizarre to me. I think it makes him dangerous. I look like I don't belong there. You, you're from Alaska. I'm going to have a partner, my friend Cooper. 2v1. So Cooper is Riley. I am Eric. And I told Oregon John that I want to meet him in person because I'm interested in doing the job that he does. Alaska is a one-party state, which means that in recording other people, only one party has to be there.
4:24in order for it to be legal.
4:30I've landed in Ketchikan, and I'm less than 20 minutes away from meeting Oregon John at a bar. I'm going to tape you to hold it until it counts down. Then it's good to go? Yeah, then it's good to go. Okay, got you. You press record on your end. Yeah, that's the only thing is this one. If you don't hold it until it counts down, it's not going to connect. That's charge, Steve? Yep. All right, happy looking. I'm good. Let's do it.
5:04I found a bar that was quiet enough in the back and put as many recording devices as we could, hiding in plain sight.
5:14He messaged me, 10 minutes away. Remember why you came here.
5:25Then he walked in. John! Hey man, I was just texting you. Hey, what's up man? This is Riley man.
5:56From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, I'm your host Payne Lindsey, and this is Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun.
6:14My friend Cooper and I were sitting at a table in the back of the bar, facing the entrance. John, hey, what's up, man? Hey, what's up, man? and Oregon John was immediately recognizable. Our other producers, Mike and Dylan, were camped out behind us, recording the entire interaction. My first thought was to try and make some small talk. If he thinks I'm somebody else, he's likely going to say something any moment now. What's up? How was the... I didn't even know who I was looking for. Did I check that? I was. I was like, do you... I was like, do you even... I was like, I know what you look like.
6:50I was like... He does DoorDash in town and just got off his shift. I lived in North Carolina for a little while. Okay, same shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same shit. Except we rode Harleys. No, they got some pretty cheap bikes around here, though. Cheap cars, too. I'm just going to look. Just for fun, I'm just going to look. I'm bouncing back and forth to Cooper, hoping John doesn't get a long look at me. My cab driver said her mom died a year ago and the car's been sitting. She said, give it to me. No way. 96 Subaru Outback wagon with all its windows. You gotta hustle around here. I need to fully become this person right now.
7:28Within a few minutes, the conversation became friendly, and John mentioned that he's married now. Wait, so how'd you meet your wife? I was gold mining, and I hired her to be my guide when I was in the Philippines. This must be where the idea of John being in the Philippines came from. We talked about our own personal experiences in Alaska, and I started naming other cities, hoping that we'd eventually get to Nome. Then after two weeks... So you're gold mining out there in the Philippines. Yeah, yeah, because I was gold mining, and that's what I was doing in Nome for four years. I used to have a 100-ton license.
8:01Then he brought it up on his own. And there's some days you make 10 grand in a day. I was driving a taxi cab up in Nome. You've been to Nome. Yes. Checker cab. I used to drive for checker. You drop everyone off at the same time? Dude, I worked for 32 days. Straight, no day off. 16-hour days. I made$28 ,000 cash into the table. So John was a cab driver and known. And he offered a concerning anecdote about his time as a cab driver in the town. The girls that spend all their money in a bar needed to ride home and offer me a blowjob for a$5 cab ride.
8:39Because all of our mics are hidden, the audio quality is not always the best. So I'm going to occasionally replay stuff. The girls that would spend all their money in a bar needed to ride home and offer me a blowjob for a$5 cab ride. According to John, his time as a cab driver was more of a hunting ground for local women. In his words, exchanging sex acts for rides and enticing women with liquor. You know you can go to a liquor store. No. You come out with a bottle and the girls come up and you get to take your pick up to three of them. I used to paint this one little 19-year-old girl who wanted to get drunk all the time.
9:17I was dating a 30-year-old from Kotzebue, which is a village just up north. She would beat my ass. And then my friends come over and saw her beat my ass. And so they called the police, right? She told the cops that I raped her. So she got a restraining order. And they believed her, right? This was a familiar story that I'd heard before. Naomi, from the Board of Trade Bar in Nome, said that Oregon John was talking about a restraining order that was placed against him at the time. He was sitting here drinking, and he was talking about an incident that was going on with his girlfriend, and he was saying she'd gotten a restraining order on her or something, something, something.
10:00She told the cops that I raped her. So she got a restraining order, and they believed her, right? So a month later, she saw me sitting on the bench. Right? I'm sitting there and she walks by and says, how come you won't talk to me? I said, do you fuck my life up? She goes, well, come over to my house and fuck me right now. So we started dating a kid. He claimed that after he left Nome, he went back home to Oregon and that he got back together with her after she had filed a restraining order. I went back to Oregon. And we were still on the phone. I was sending her money, you know. And my mom goes, why are you sending her money?
10:37I said, because I've got a plan. So I talked to her and going back to her parents in Fairbanks. And sobering up and going to rehab, when she sobered up, she dropped all the charges. And the statute of limitations has already run out on it now. Because they kept going back and getting her to try to get her to refile. And she told them no because I helped her. John seemed to view himself as a hero in this situation. Keeping a straight face and playing along with him was starting to become pretty difficult. So I moved our conversation back to Noam. Why did John leave Noam? Why'd you want to get out of there eventually?
11:10Just like, fuck this, dude. I had the legal issues, remember? He claimed the reason he left Noam was his legal issues he had with his ex-girlfriend, the restraining order. But then he said this. And a girl come and hung out in my tent one night and she walked off somewhere and somebody kidnapped her and looted her. Let's play that back again. And a girl come and hung out in my tent one night and she walked off somewhere and somebody kidnapped her and looted her. John claimed that a woman went inside his tent one night. She walked off, and then somebody kidnapped and murdered her. Does John know this as a fact?
11:44He's clearly talking about Florence here, and he's saying with confidence that she was murdered, as if that's a known fact. I started digging deeper. The whole town thought I murdered her. The FBI had to come in. They cleared me. They found her buried under the dude's house, the meth dealer, who was also the search and rescue diver for the police. And they thought I did it, so I bounced. I was the last person to have seen her alive, besides the guy that killed her. Okay, he's now admittedly the last person to have seen Flo alive, besides the person who murdered her, which he believes to be a solid fact at this point.
12:22Claiming her body was discovered in a barrel under some meth dealer's house? I think I would have heard about that if it were true. These are pretty bold claims here. The FBI had to come in. They cleared me. they found her buried under the dude's house, the meth dealer, who was also the search and rescue diver for the police. And they thought I did it, so I bounced. I was the last person to see her alive, besides the guy that killed her. He's saying that because everyone thought he did it, the FBI came in to rescue him. He can't be serious with this, right? He described a time when one of Flo's friends had approached him.
12:58He goes, hey, I heard you picked up Flo in town and took her out to your camp. And yeah, yeah, she passed out. And in the morning, I woke up and she was gone, but I left her shoes and her phone. So Flo passed out in his tent. Then he woke up in the morning and she was gone, even though she left all of her things there. And yeah, yeah, she passed out. And in the morning, I woke up and she was gone, but I left her shoes and her phone. Well, there was no trace of it. And I was actually held captive by the natives for 28 days straight. You've got to be kidding me with this. Held captive by the natives?
13:36Give me a break. It took every ounce of self-control I had to not roll my eyes into the back of my head. A friend of mine, she actually called the FBI in because she was working for the guy that killed her. She found the barrel under the house and called the FBI in. The FBI had to rescue me. In John's story about Flo's disappearance, that he's claiming is a murder, in which they've already found her body, there was a particular friend of his that was apparently vouching for him at the time. And this person allegedly told the FBI that John was innocent. What friend is he talking about? He's saying she, so we know that.
14:12And this person found Flo's body in a barrel under someone's house? The police were trying to fuck me and everything because it was one of their people that did it. Noam is corrupt. You have no idea. Three times in the last 12 years, the law enforcement department has been shut down and taken over by the feds. They are so corrupt up there, dude. It's crazy. So, like... One of the police officers was raped and murdered all the girls. Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's now conflating the story of Sonia Ivanov's murder by a known police officer, which happened two decades ago. Mind you, in this moment, he thinks that I wanted to meet him to talk about his job, and we just casually arrived at this point in the conversation.
14:52To his knowledge, we know nothing about Flo's disappearance. At all. And it's starting to feel like he's just throwing shit out there to see what sticks, so we can just move on and talk about something else. Now you know about the judge that disappeared, right? No, they're not. Yeah, yeah, they fed him to the bears. He's likely referring to Joseph Balderas, who went missing in 2016. His car was found abandoned outside Nome, and there's been no trace of him ever since. This is the case that the private investigator, Andy Klamzer, has been working on for years. It's time to try and press a little bit harder.
15:29Why did they fucking think you did it then? Because I was the last person known to have seen her alive. She just vanished. Then who saw her afterwards? Who murdered her? What the fuck happened? They brought in cadaver dogs around my camp. And I had no place to live. I was living in a camp. And every time I go into town, people were following me. They'd pull me out to my camp. One time, 30 of them cornered me on the beach. I had to stab a guy and I called the police out and by the time they got there everyone was left and they took the guy and the police didn't and he goes as far as we're concerned it was never even happening because it was just outside their jurisdictional lines.
16:07So the guy who fucking really did it did he get caught or did he fucking... It's hard to hear him but when I asked if they caught the guy he says, oh yeah. So the guy who fucking really did it did he get caught or did he fucking... Oh yeah. Good. But I still got family members calling me. They actually were doing a podcast and tried to get a hold of me. It was in this moment, an extreme panic began pulsing through my veins. They actually were doing a podcast and tried to get a hold of me. Is he just fucking with me? Does he actually believe I'm this other fake person? Or did I just get caught?
16:47Also, how the hell does he know about this podcast? At this point in time, I haven't told anybody. My camp was known as a safe place where people would come when they were drinking without any. I swore I was never coming back to Alaska, and then I got this fucking job. But I stay out of trouble. I don't go into town. I don't mess around with girls. I got me beautiful wives. I don't, you know, I don't get in trouble. I used to ride around on my wheelie with a half gallon of vodka just to get laid. Eventually, he brought up his guns, a subject I was a little less enthused by, considering the fact that he has one on his belt right now.
17:24He's aware of some podcast, and he doesn't realize yet that he's talking to that podcaster right now. I had some guns to where they couldn't even legally touch me because they were class three. Basically, if they wanted to confiscate my guns, they'd have to call it a federal. Because I'm going to tell you the secret. The state of Alaska is the only state that will hire sex offenders and domestic violent convicted as law enforcement outside of Fairbanks and Anchorage. Anywhere else in the state of Alaska, they will hire convicted felons. Why is he telling me this? There used to be an old guy that worked up there as the safety officer.
18:03They'd drive the paddy wagon around. Now, he was my buddy. He stood up for me. He's retired now. He left that town because he saw them trying to railroad me. I'm not exactly sure who he's talking about here, but I have some good ideas. Back to the case again. You were saying, like, did they fucking interrogate you or some shit or what? No, they wouldn't speak to me. Are you saying the police didn't interview you at all? You were saying, like, did they fucking interrogate you or some shit or what? No, they wouldn't speak to me. I had officially worked Flo's disappearance back into the conversation, and I knew this was likely my last shot at asking any deeper questions.
18:42According to John, he was never interviewed at all by the known police department. But he did offer up on his own another interesting story.
19:17Rock or something? Wagon, station wagon. Okay, yeah. But they, they... Ha! So my friends call me and say, the cops are here and they're taking the car. So I pulled up on my four-wheeler and go, what the fuck are you guys doing? The cops go, we can't talk. We can't talk to you. Because they're trying to build a case, even though there's nothing to build. Frame your ass, yeah. Yeah! He liked that. He wouldn't come out and say it himself, though. This story, to me, is of utmost importance. I've heard previously through the grapevine that Oregon John had allegedly rented a car in Nome the day after Flo went missing.
19:54Very strange timing. And according to him, that's true. But he rented it for some friends of his because they weren't old enough. Okay. Y 'all, gift giving season is here. And I have to say, my quince order completely spoiled me that I'm considering thinking, keeping everything for myself. Quince makes gift giving ridiculously easy. I am obsessed with my new European linen shirt dress, and I cannot wait to give one to my mom. It's a seasonal staple for me, layered with tights and one of Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Quince also has gifts beyond clothing, home, bath, kitchen, and travel, so you can cover everyone on your list.
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22:39Now, her roommate was the missing girl's cousin. Her roommate would get drunk, and she'd steal my girlfriend's phone, call me up, where's Flo? Where's Flo? Now, when I went to jail with my girlfriend, right, on a senior violation, Flo's sister was in the cell next to me. For three days, I had to hear, where's Flo? And I'm like, I don't know. Back to whoever this alleged murderer is. Do they have a name, John?
Read the full transcript
23:25So John knows with certainty that Florence was killed by this man, and he put her body in a barrel under a house that his friend eventually found. Yet no one else knows about it. And he also doesn't know this guy at all. And no names are forthcoming. The thing is up there is why would you need to kill a girl that you put out like crazy? Weirdos moved to Alaska to be weird. Look, 80 % of the people that killed a girl, nobody finds out. An interesting stat to recall at a bar with two strangers you just met, it also isn't true. John has presented this story as if he is the victim, so maybe if I played into that some more, he'll keep talking about it, at least a little longer.
24:12He had mentioned earlier the preposterous story of being held captive by natives for 28 days straight, so I brought that back up. Was he held captive? Well, I was in my camp, and they wouldn't let me leave. I was actually held captive by the natives for 28 days straight. They forced me, they injected me with hepatitis C. I ended up in the hospital for three months. Some more absurd details. Not only was he held captive, which he then said was just him being in his own tent on the beach, but he was injected with hepatitis C. Come on. I had a girlfriend, she'd smoked a lot of weed and drank a lot of liquor.
24:55Was your girlfriend the one who died or no? No, no, no, no, no. That was just her. Different person. I knew. Okay. My girlfriend, she's still alive. Okay, yeah, yeah. But she's not my girlfriend anymore. Yeah, yeah. That's the one they, like, accuse you. Were you dating the other girl or no? No. Playing dumb a little bit here. Back to Flo. Why was she in his tent that night? Unfortunate timing for him if he had nothing to do with her disappearance, like he claims. She just wanted a place to sleep it up. Yeah. In my camp. I had a huge cabin tent with a wood stove in it and everything. I had solar panels, 12-volt refrigerator.
25:33You know, I had a cook stove. You know. Did you guys find that motherfucker? The guy who fucking killed that girl? No, I left town when they found him. A friend of mine, a woman, used to come out and fuck me. She was 30 years old. He brings up his friend again, the one that apparently vouched for him to the FBI. guy. This woman also apparently found a barrel with Flo's body inside it, under a house in Nome. Who is this person? A friend of mine, a woman, used to come out and fuck me. She was 30 years old. She just put her friends, but she wanted to fuck money. She'd come in from the village a couple times a month and, you know, good looking, whatever.
26:12But she was working for the guy doing construction. That friend of his is Kelly. The same Kelly that sent out all those text messages claiming two other men and a woman were responsible for Flo's murder. The same Kelly that told Flo's friend something entirely different. Kelly had told Flo's friend that it was John who was involved and that her body was in John's tent, not a barrel or someone else. The same Kelly that refused to talk to me on the phone and pretended like we already had. This is the person who vouches for John? He's going to need a better reference than that. No, no, that's the one that found the girl and turned it in and called the FBI to save me.
26:56And I knew her from the homicide. And she's really cute. I'm like, oh, you're coming over to fuck me? So, you know, I took a Viagra and pounded the shit out of it. Then I'm like, fuck, man, this is a nice girl. So she'd come out to my cabin and just stripped down to her bra and panties and run around all day in the summer drunk and just hang out with me. She knew she was safe. They all knew me, you know, because I was really chilled with the girls, you know? There's no reason why I do that. I had one girl who had a boyfriend. She'd call him on the phone, we're like, I'm fucking eight. And he'd get all butt hurt.
27:34And she goes, well, you know, it's Eskimos Boutique. She'd hand me ten bucks and go, I know you need to go get me a bottle of liquor. And I'd say, okay, let's fuck. She was too drunk already. They wouldn't sell. So I'd fuck her for 20 minutes, and then I'd drive to the store and get her a bottle. But she gave her a bottle. That young girl, the one I showed you the picture of, she had them driving me out there, and they're like, are you sure you want to go see John? And she's like, yeah, I know John. I trust John. And she'd come out, give me big hugs, and she goes, I'm going to stay here with John.
28:04This is while that missing girl was out, and everybody thought I'd kill her. When did they find her? Under the dude's house, buried in a 50-gallon drum. That girl the **** was telling me about. He's talking about Kelly again. But me and her weren't just friends, and she didn't even want to come down and visit me down here before I got married. Kelly. That girl, you knew I was guilty, that I put the crack on meth rocks in the butthole. She's the one who called the FBI. I'm no psychologist, and this may be pseudoscience altogether, But in my opinion, this was a classic example of what they call a Freudian slip.
28:46Listen again.
29:09to Anchorage, he faked the paperwork. What happened? Then as soon as I got there, in 24 hours, I was released of going to Oregon from Anchorage because they were doing it to protect me. I was considered an at-risk adult because of the abuse I was receiving by the natives. Oh my God. Yes. That's crazy. They shipped me out of the state. They have no idea I'm back up here. You could not pay me enough to go back there. Let's put it this way. Every small town, I lived there for four years. so everybody knows everybody. I roll back into town. I step off that airplane. Matter of fact, before I get off the airplane, there's going to be people on that plane that are from there.
29:49They will know in town before I even step off the plane. That girl was from that area, and she was ready to have to town. Yeah, but they got the guy, right? But they still don't believe it. Oh. They still think I was involved. Oh. Like I said, as much as six months ago, they tried to get in touch with me for a podcast. Not the podcast again. We're pretty deep in the conversation now. I think he believes that I'm somebody else. He has to. Right? As much as six months ago, they tried to get in touch with me for a podcast. Fuck. So where's the fucking guy who did it now? See, I thought you were hooked up with them.
30:29Fuck no. I didn't know who you were. I didn't see your picture. He's talking about my fake Facebook, which he clearly was at least a little suspicious of. I don't even like Facebook, which is true. Oh, no. I don't even like Facebook. No, no, no. No, because I have people contact me on Facebook that are from up there. For where? They try to befriend me. No. Still? Yes. That's why I was wondering who the fuck you were. Curiosity killed me, man. I invited you to come stay at my house. Motherfucker, I got a gun. You're going to fuck with me. Good thing we didn't go to his house. Motherfucker, I got a gun.
31:06You're going to fuck with me. But I had to find out who you were. See, I didn't even know you were a white dude. I didn't even know if you were a native. But you said you were from Georgia. Yeah. And see, when you check out his Facebook profile, there's no pictures. I don't post shit, man. I hate you. All it says is he's from Georgia but lives in Kodiak. Yeah. That's the only information, which to me sends up a lot of red flags. I don't blame him. John sent a lot of red flags up for me, too. At this point, the conversation was winding down. The holidays are coming, the mornings are cold, and honestly, I just want my wardrobe to work.
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32:21Now available in Canada too. That's quince, q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash upandvanished. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash upandvanished. Toyota-thon is on, so stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year-end deals on the cars, trucks, and SUVs known for their legendary reliability, like the stylish and efficient Camry, the ready-for-anything RAV4, or check out a rough-and-rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Visit buyatoyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. and he wanted to walk us to his car.
33:08He said he had a document for us pertaining to that job we were supposed to be interested in. I didn't like this, but I had to go.
33:23It's kind of good out here, don't I see? That's quiet.
33:33Now there is a company here, another gun store. called a Firearm Adventures, you can rent 40 auto. Making conversation on the way to his car, John invited us to the gun range the following morning. Not to look weird, I told him yes, we'd go. What's great is I got the high-rise sights, so even when the battery goes dead, I still have sights. He pulled out one of his pistols and accidentally dropped it on the ground. Oh shit. I got my hollow points, but that's all I got.
34:13What time shall we text you tomorrow? Hit me up in a little afternoon. Take off around 1, we'll go to the store, we'll come back, we'll be back about 2.30.
34:26I'll text you tomorrow, man.
35:00Getting John was really kind of a box we needed to check to see where we go. I'm totally impressed that that happened. I didn't think you'd ever talk to this guy. I didn't think I would either. We debriefed the next day with private investigator Andy Klamzer. And is he still messaging on Facebook? He was. Our friendship continued. But I was not about to go to the gun range with this guy. He wanted us to meet with him the next day and go gun shooting. And I was like, eh. What could go wrong with that? Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not happy with that. Well, how did you segue into Nome? It's crazy because he actually brought it up first.
35:47Right before he got there at the bar, I was messaging him. He brought up Nome on his own. We pulled up some recordings for Andy to hear.
36:01What did he say about why her stuff was in his tent?
36:20Did they find her? No, they did not find Flo.
36:40They injected him with what? So he's crazy. Andy also found his stories to be absolutely insane.
37:07I always felt this whole thing with Kelly, to begin with, was just really weird. And now I feel that way even more. I pulled up all the messages that Kelly had sent out about Flo's murder, and he hadn't seen them yet. Who wrote this? So these are Facebook posts collected by a woman named Sue at Nome, who's just been on her own trying to solve Flo's case. So when we run into this problem, what we usually do is go to, like, Nome, and try and find somebody at Nome that knows her well enough that'll help arrange a meeting. He's peddling that theory, but that theory has really only ever come from one person named.
37:53and he talks about her a lot. That theory sounds cute and all, but it only comes from one person. This girl, who also won't answer the phone, did answer it finally, hung up on me. I'm going to have to try some other angles. Kelly clearly does not want to talk on the phone, or she thinks that we already have. I don't know, whatever. So he said he left known because of it? Yes. So that's a good admission right there. I mean, if you didn't do it, why would you be, like, leaving now? And then in the morning when he woke up, she's gone and her stuff is there. The more he talks, the more he incriminates himself.
38:36This is probably better than, you know, trying to interview him where you tell him who you are, because this way you can keep talking to him over time. So, I mean, one thing you can say to him now is, hey, I think that girl's still alive. I don't think they found a body. I was looking, somebody told me, or I was looking online or whatever.
39:00And he claims that the natives injected him with hepatitis. They held him captive for 28 days. And injected him with hepatitis. That's just, I mean... So that's like delusional. Kind of puts him in a different category. I mean, definitely dangerous.
39:33He tells them all the FBI came out to get him basically to save him, which is really fucking weird. She's the one who called the FBI, and she told him, look, John didn't do it, blah, blah, blah. The FBI had to come out and get me. He's crazy enough that he had a mental health person in Nome, and they did a Title 47 on him, where they decided he was a danger to himself or others, and sent him to API in Anchorage or Providence for evaluation. And then they do like they always do after a few days, they kick him loose. It's delusional. It's like this whole delusions all through this. I think this guy's truly delusional.
40:15Yeah, he believes this stuff. It involves delusions. Those are people who, you know, can commit violent crimes because of their delusions. I think it moves him up in terms of being a suspect. It makes him a lot more suspicious, you know. I brought up that restraining order, the one John's ex-girlfriend had filed against him. It sounds to me like he actually got charged with something related to that, and they dismissed it, and that's why it doesn't show up in court for you. You need to get those restraining order petitions where she talked to the judge about what happened.
41:10I did find these court documents. And the following is her statement about John.
41:20On the morning of March 20th, 2020, John physically assaulted me and raped me. I still do not feel safe to be around him. He burned a cigarette out on my right shoulder. I have a threatening voicemail of him yelling and cursing me on my voicemail. I went to the hospital and did a rape kit. The DA has all the evidence and currently waiting to move forward on pressing charges. I am so scared and do not want him anywhere near me. I am scared. He has guns and knives and he sells weed and dabs to underage minors from 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. daily.
42:29talked to a gnome who's still in touch with him. Yes, and I think it's that she's peddling the only other theory. And I had called her the day before. It would have made perfect sense that she communicated to him about this podcast. This guy is going to know the health podcast. He'll act differently, I think, knowing that he's being talked about.
43:01That may prompt him to say a bunch of other stuff, so that's good. I'm curious if he found out who I was, if he'd still talk to me. He probably would. I don't think it would be weird if you said, hey, I googled this and it says here that that lady was never found and that she's still missing. That's fucked up or something like that. What you don't have is you don't have access to the official interviews he gave. My guess is whatever he tells you is going to contradict whatever he told them, which makes it important.
43:44So it was like two hours? Two hours, yeah. Wow. It's perfect. It's perfect. You going to send him a Christmas card? I could.
44:03So what's your plan for the next time you talk to him?
44:17Now what do I do? How long before my whole cover is blown here? My next contact with John may very well be my last. So I ghosted him. and I went two months with no contact.
44:35Then, I opened up my fake Facebook account and took another shot in the dark. He hadn't messaged me in two months either. What does that mean exactly? I took Andy's advice, and I messaged him again as this fake person.
45:00Okay, here goes nothing. I said, I looked up that missing girl on Google, and it says they didn't find her yet. Did the FBI keep it a secret? He read it. He's online right now. And in no time at all, he read it.
45:28He's typing.
45:46Hey, it's Payne. If you haven't checked out Talking to Death yet, please go check it out. It's my new weekly show. If you like Up and Vanished, then there's a good chance you might like my weekly show called Talking to Death. During this season, right now, in the intro segment of every new episode of Talking to Death, we are unpacking the latest episode. Hey, Mike. Hey. Hey. If you want to hear myself and the producers of Up and Vanished unpack episode six, go right now on your podcast app and look up Talking to Death and find the latest episode featuring Laura Norton.
46:30Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik-Glen, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.
47:05Mix and Mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and The Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.
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From the publisher
After messaging him from a fake Facebook account, Payne sets up to meet with the person he wants to talk with the most; Oregon Jon. Deciding to bring along a few of his producers, Payne sets up as many recording devices around the bar as he can in order to covertly capture the full encounter. Can Payne keep up the ruse or will Oregon Jon catch on?
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