Ashley Loring Heavyrunner: Payne Tells All

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1:54Thank you so much for listening.

2:23in June of 2017 from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation. But Ashley's story is more than a missing persons case. It's emblematic of a national crisis. The epidemic of missing and murdered Indigenous women, or MMIW. Ashley's case doesn't just highlight the pain of one family. It exposes a system of silence, distrust, and neglect that has allowed these stories to remain hidden for far too long. This is her story, and the story of the people who refuse to let her be forgotten. To understand Ashley's disappearance, we have to start with who she was. To her family, Ashley wasn't just a sister or a daughter.

3:14She was their light. Her sister Kimberly described her as someone who could brighten the darkest days with just a laugh. but she had the most beautiful smile. She was a very caring person, just had this big heart for everything. Ashley grew up on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation just 40 miles from the Canadian border. Life on the reservation wasn't always easy, but Ashley faced those challenges with the resilience and warmth that endeared her to everyone who knew her. But like many Indigenous women, Ashley's life wasn't without struggles. And in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, something changed.

3:57She started acting differently, more distant, more anxious, and her family couldn't quite put their finger on why.

4:30From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey.

4:41The timeline of Ashley's disappearance begins on June 5th, 2017. That night, she visited her father's house in Browning. She seemed paranoid, closing all the blinds, and telling her father not to look outside when a car pulled up. I did something, she told him, but she wouldn't explain what. And then she was gone. That same night, Ashley was reportedly seen at a party hosted by Vernon Wagner. There were multiple witnesses who claimed she was there, and even a video posted on Facebook that showed her sitting on a couch. But by the time Payne Lindsey and the Up and Vanish team began their investigation, that video had disappeared.

5:27The next day, June 6th, Kimberly messaged Ashley on Facebook. Are you okay? She asked. Ashley replied, always. But something about the response felt off. Kimberly could sense it, even then. I don't know where she was at the time. I don't know where she was at. I believe wherever she was held a key. When Payne Lindsey and the Up and Vanish team arrived in Browning, they faced an uphill battle. Distrust of outsiders, years of secrecy, and a fractured system of law enforcement created walls at every turn. But piece by piece, they began reconstructing Ashley's final days. One key location kept coming up in interviews, Big Al's House, known as a party spot on the outskirts of town.

6:23Witnesses claimed Ashley had been there the morning after the party at Vernon's. She told me she didn't want to be there, one witness said, and I told her, get in. From Big Al's house, Ashley was picked up by another man, Sam McDonald. According to Sam, Ashley stayed at his cabin deep in the mountains for six days. And then on June 11th, he claimed he decided to drive her home. But somewhere along the way, she disappeared. The deeper pain in the team dug, the more suspicious characters began to emerge. George. Big Al, whose house was reportedly known for drugs and troubling behavior, was one of them.

7:08There were stories of girls escaping his house, syringes in their arms, one local said, and then Ashley went there. But it was Sam McDonald who stood at the center of the investigation. Sam admitted that Ashley had stayed with him for days and described a bizarre and troubling final interaction. He claimed that while driving her back to town, Ashley asked him to stop at a mountain pullout, saying she was meeting someone named V-Dog. I leaned my chair back, and when I woke up, she was gone, Sam said. Sam's story raised more questions than answers. Why didn't he help with a search for Ashley afterward?

7:53Why did he remodel his house after she disappeared? And who exactly was V-Dog? V-Dog, as it turned out, was a man named Paul Valenzuela, a known criminal with a lengthy record. But by the time pain tracked him down, the trail had grown cold. Ashley's disappearance is part of a larger crisis. Native women are murdered at rates 10 times higher than the national average, and murder is the third leading cause of death for Indigenous women. Despite these staggering statistics, law enforcement often fails to act. Desi Lone Bear Rodriguez, an advocate for MMIW, described the systematic failures that have allowed this crisis to continue.

8:45you. Our women are targets, she said. We're not safe in our homes, in our communities, or on the roads. And when we disappear, no one cares. Payne and the team amplified this message, giving Kimberly and others a platform to demand justice, not just for Ashley, but for all Indigenous women. For over four years, Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner has been the driving force behind the search for Ashley. She has led marches, spoken at town halls, and even testified before Congress, calling out the failures of law enforcement to take her sister's case seriously. If they had searched for my sister right away, we wouldn't still be looking.

9:33We would have Ashley, she said. Kimberly's determination has not only kept Ashley's story alive, but has also brought national attention to the broader issue of MMIW. One of the most dramatic moments in Payne's investigation came when he tracked down Sam McDonald at his remote cabin near St. Mary's Lake. As Payne approached, Sam stepped out of his house, holding a gun. If I'd seen a gun in your hand, Sam said, I would have shot you. Despite the tense encounter, Payne managed to interview Sam, pressing him on the details of Ashley's disappearance. But the more Sam talked, the less his story seemed to add up.

10:24You might remember the name Paul Valenzuela. Or maybe you remember his nickname better, V-Dog. He was one of the major names that kept floating around in Ashley's case, like a shadow behind the scenes. We heard rumors, whispers, and eventually we tracked him down. I'll be honest, when I knocked on his door, I didn't know what was going to happen. Any of this is written down, what I'm telling you right now, I'm going to come find you, okay? Because I'm telling you right now. I'm just a podcaster. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody. Check this out, man. I know the routine.

11:02I know all this little talk. I don't work for the big people. I don't work for the news. I'm just independent. It doesn't matter. Everybody's always going to blame the bad guy, okay? Everybody does it for every fucking reason. So I'm going to tell you right now, I ain't got nothing to do with that fucking Lauren girl, okay? Never did, never will. Kimberly Lauren is a piece of crap for the fuck she's been doing to my family. What's she doing? In my family name. And don't bother. That shit don't bother me at all, bro. I don't give a fuck where you come from, man. There's other people in the case.

11:33It's not like it's just you. Like, it's just Sam. Go for it, man. Go for it, man. No, I've talked to Sam. I've talked to T. I only haven't talked to you. I don't give a fuck about T. T is a fucking piece of crap, too. They're all pieces of crap, okay? If you can write that down, they're all pieces of crap. It's fine. Dude, five minutes, man, please. Fuck off my horse before I send a dog out there. To date, this is one of the most intense moments I've ever experienced doing this show. Something about the way he looked at me, the tension in the air, this strange confusion amongst us. It was pretty clear this guy had something to hide, and he didn't care if he lost everything trying to hide it.

12:09And now, firsthand, we know exactly how dangerous V-Dog really is. In June of 2024, just a few months after our encounter, Paul Valenzuela was arrested by the FBI in Great Falls, Montana. It's Huluween on Disney+. Watch frightful family favorites like Hocus Pocus and Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas on Disney+. I am the Pumpkin King! Then take the terror to ten with a thrilling new remake of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle, Scream, and more with Hulu-een on Disney+. All these and more screaming this Halloween season with Hulu on Disney+. Bundle subscription required. 18+. Select Hulu content via Disney+.

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13:41Several people were detained overnight in Great Falls after law enforcement officers executed a search warrant. The situation developed between midnight and 1 a.m. on Monday, August 14th at or near 6th Avenue North and 7th Street an officer with a bull horn announced several times that the FBI was executing the warrant and ordered the suspects to come out of the house at least one flashbang was used and officers with the high-risk unit eventually broke down the door of the house at first the charges were shocking threats to kill a federal officer Firearms violations, an assault with a deadly weapon.

14:20But then it got worse. In the court filings, the truth came out. Valenzuela had brutally assaulted a man on the Blackfeet reservation with a baseball bat, leaving him hospitalized with serious injuries. The federal charge of threatening a law enforcement officer was later dropped, but the assault charge stuck. V-Dog was sentenced to three years in federal prison. And suddenly, the rumors about him didn't feel like rumors anymore. They felt like warnings. Looking back at that moment, standing on his doorstep, asking him point-blank about Ashley, I still get chills. Because that's what this story is full of.

15:04People hiding in plain sight. People who think no one will come knocking. But we did. And now, he's behind bars. At least for a little while. Whether or not Paul Valenzuela was involved in Ashley's disappearance is still something we're digging into to this day. But what we do know is this. He's dangerous. He's capable of violence. And he had every reason in the world to avoid the truth. After airing Ashley's story, something happened that no one could have been prepared for. The tip line blew up. Dozens and dozens of phone calls. Some of the tips felt like noise, dead ends, static. But then, certain voices began to cut through the silence.

15:54The ones that stuck with me, the ones I couldn't shake. One of which was Megan. I turned in a report to Blackfeet Law Enforcement, Blackfeet Tribal Business Council, the FBI, mis - and murdered indigenous people out of Billings. and my report is not being looked into because the person who found her phone that was signed into Ashley's Facebook is named Reuben Edwards. There's another Reuben Edwards in Browning that is a straight person. However, it was not that Reuben Edwards that found the phone. It was a different Reuben Edwards, a younger one, not the straight person. Ashley was seen by my cousin.

16:40And he seen Ashley in a truck with two males. One of them was named Ellen Pox, sure chief. And the other one's name is Joe Gobert. Ashley jumped out of the truck and she walked over to my cousin David's vehicle and asked for a ride. And David asked what she was doing out there. Ashley got mad that he would question her and she jumped back in with the guys. Exactly that spot where she jumped out at and where she's seen David at, that's where her phone was found.

17:24Megan claims her cousin saw Ashley that day. Not only that, but he talked to her. She says Ashley was with two men. Joe Gobert and Alan Potts and that she asked for a ride seemingly panicked and when he questioned her she got angry and jumped back into the truck the spot where it happened? The same spot where Ashley's phone was eventually found still logged into her Facebook Megan says the man who found it was confused with someone else by law enforcement which caused the whole lead to be dismissed she also says Ashley was trying to get to 2Medicine texting people for a ride. And that destination may hold the key.

18:32there was someone who reported her in a white truck parked out by to medicine well out by to medicine where she was going where i believe to where she was going was to mabel and jimmy run in fisher's bunk house they had a guy living there who was a ranch hand and he came from the Billings area. I think it was like the Crow Reservation. Jimmy met him through rodeoing. He was living in their house and he had no form of transportation besides a horse and their green ATV. I was out into medicine on my grandpa's land when I was down there by the river. I was with my boyfriend and we got out of the truck and I heard a ATV in the distance but it was just part like running and it took a really long time and then finally I start hearing it get closer and it got closer I seen Richard or just whatever his name is in the trees out into medicine and And when I seen him, he panicked.

19:48He didn't know what to do. He jumped out of an ATV and he, like, stood behind it. And the only way he could leave was if he went past me, like how we were in the clearing. And when he went past, there was a big black bag in the back. It looked like there was, like, something. It wasn't, like, trash. It was something that was like big and sticking out the side of the ATV, the back of the ATV. It's not investigated properly. The person I listed who found Ashley's phone when Ashley was asking for a ride to medicine, he is being confused with someone who has the same name. I really would appreciate if you guys can question Richard Jess Realberg on this also because I believe that's who she was going to.

20:49That was the only male living down there at that time. And he fled immediately in June, like mid-June, the owner of the rent. I have a message I could show you where she said she gave him a ride back to Billings. He left all his clothes, his rope parts, and he never returned. According to her, Jess left town days after Ashley vanished. Left all this stuff behind, never to come back again. But that wasn't the only tip. We also got a call from Ashley's mother. Hello, I'm trying to get a hold of Payne Lindsey. I'm Ashley's mother, Loxie Lindlaring. and I have been in contact and trying to work with the FBI and we have a new location just across from Divide where Sam claims that he took my daughter.

21:49We got a tip from Wendy Bird. That's where Tashina brought my daughter. There's a trailer down there. and it's just across the road from divide. If you could please give me a call back. I would really like to speak to Payne Lindsay and if there's any way that I need help with cadaver dogs and I really appreciate for what you have done on my daughter's case and interviewed. If you could please give me a call back. Thank you. She told me about a new location. A trailer near Divide. A place that might have been tied to Sam. The man who claimed to have been with Ashley the night she disappeared. Then, there was something stranger.

22:45I guess this is weird, but I came across a profile on FetLife last night. The name that the profile is under is, hold on, hold on, Sativa Bria, S-A-T-I-V-A, B-R-I-A. This girl in this profile looks uncannily like Ashley. I mean, I just was stunned looking at it. I think they have the same teeth. But anyway. A woman found an online profile with a girl who looked almost identical to Ashley. The username, Sativa Bria. Honestly, it could be completely nothing. Or it might be someone using Ashley's identity. Either way, the resemblance was striking. and yet one more broken piece to add to this puzzle and then there were the visions i don't usually include these i'll be honest psychic tips spiritual visions those don't usually make it into my notebooks but one call gave me chills i grew up on the tribe with ashley i didn't know her as much i'm letting you call an empath.

24:20I'm not sure if I'm completely psychic or a medium by any means, but I've had this vision of Ashley, and I just had it again. I see her standing in a room. She's looking at me, and she's trying to tell me something, but I can't read what she's saying. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at GoodToKnowFacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients.

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26:04Uh, Lemu? Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary. Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts. Because it's like I see her and she's yelling at me but I don't know what she's saying because there's nothing coming out of her mouth. But she's screaming trying to get my attention and I'm trying to help her but I can't do anything because I don't know what she's saying to me. Her name was Shanae Running Rabbit. She grew up on the same reservation and said she'd had this vision over and over again.

26:50I've had this vision. I don't know how many times I've had this vision. At one point, it was like I was looking through her eyes and she was in this room. I think there was a bed against the wall or something. And I don't know. I was looking through her eyes in this vision as well. and I just saw what she was seeing, but I can't tell where she's at. But I know she was in a room somewhere. I don't know if this will help at all. I doubt it will. But I've had this vision so many times and I lived on the tribe where she lived as well. I still can't see what she's saying to me. And I think she's trying to give me a hint to where she's at.

27:45I'll try to channel it again. I doubt this will be able to help, but something in me is telling me that I need to tell you this now. Ashley in a dark room, screaming. And something about the way she said it just stuck with me. Some of these tips are very specific, some completely abstract. But altogether, they start to form something bigger, a picture of a young woman surrounded by danger, a trail that keeps trying to disappear, and the possibility that we might be closer than ever to real answers. But of all the tips we received, there was one far more disturbing than the others. In August of last year, Ashley's sister, Kimberly, received a tip.

28:38It wasn't just a name or a rumor. it was a link. A link to a video that was more than unsettling. It was hosted on a shock site known for gore. And what they said was chilling. The video began with a local news clip, a reporter announcing the reward for Ashley's case. Then this eerie song starts playing in the background. Upon further investigation, we found that this song was a distorted version of Secret, one of the theme songs in the show Pretty Little Liars. It's a haunting track about two girls. One tells the other a secret. She promises to keep it, but she doesn't. And the secret then becomes deadly.

29:30The screen cuts to an animated skull, Guns crossed behind it. It looks like something from a 90s video game. But then it flashes to Ashley's missing poster. Her face. Her name. Her story. And then it shows a woman in a bathtub outside. A metal grate bolted across the top, locking her inside. It's filmed from the viewpoint of someone holding a hose, slowly filling the tub with water. And that's where it ends. To be completely transparent, I've truly never seen anything in my life this awful before. Was this real? Was it a hoax? A prank? Regardless, here's what we do know. Whoever made this, whether it was a hoax, a sick joke, or something far worse, someone out there knew about Ashley.