Case Evidence 09.03.24

0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Toyota-thon is on, so stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year-end deals on the cars, trucks, and SUVs known for their legendary reliability, like the stylish and efficient Camry, the ready-for-anything RAV4, or check out a rough-and-rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Visit BuyAToyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. It's NBA tip-off week and FanDuel is your home for live betting. So even if you miss the start of the game or want to ride the hot hand, FanDuel has live bets on everything from who will score next to fourth quarter comebacks.

0:49Plus, you can even combine your live bets into a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout. However you want to play, now is the perfect time to join. Because FanDuel is giving new customers$300 in bonus bets if your first$5 bet wins. So just visit fanduel.com slash sportsfan to sign up today. Play your game with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in Virginia. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.

1:26Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Welcome to Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun, Chapter 2, Case Evidence. I'm Mike Rooney, one of the producers of Up and Banished. We've been getting a lot of requests from the listeners, asking to hear the raw interviews from the private investigators' tapes. So, we're going to start releasing them. Today, we're sharing the interview that Andy Klamzer recorded with Christine. Alright, this will be an interview between Andy Klamzer and Christine Piscoya. It's the 29th of September, 2016. Time now is about 2.24 p.m. And we're in the conference room at the Aurora Inn in Nome.

2:07Can you tell me how well you knew Joseph and how you guys met? I've known Joseph since he started working as a law clerk for the court because I was a deputy clerk when he first took on his first year of being a law clerk. And since then, we've been friends. And he stayed on for a law clerk for two years. so that's how long I've known him. So how close is your friendship? Do you know him well? Did he share important personal things with you? Some things he did. I mean, I would say we were friends because he would come to my family's dinner when we had Eskimo food. During the winter, we'll have it at least once a week.

2:51And then he occasionally joined for other dinners. Like he went over for Christmas breakfast. I don't remember if he went over for Thanksgiving, but my family was like a second family to him, or a family here in Nome. Can you tell me what your general impressions of Joseph are as a person? If somebody asked you to describe him, how would you describe him? He was really nice, outgoing, not really shy, but not putting himself out there. He did keep to himself and caring and just overall seemed like a good person. I mean, I didn't get any bad vibes from him, which is really nice. Okay. Did Joseph seem to be excited about moving to Juneau and getting married to Meg and opening a law practice down there?

3:44Yeah, he said he was excited that he can't wait. I mean, he had told me about he wanted to open a law firm months before he was going to be done here. And said he was saving up money. And he was going to Juneau often to look for a job that he could be into until he opened a law firm. And then he had told me about Megan, and I asked him how they met. and he said that was his friend's ex-wife, I think, is what he said. And then he had told me he was excited and was looking forward to it. Okay. And did that include, you know, right up until he disappeared? In other words, no change of heart that you were aware of?

4:30Not that I knew of. I mean, he never said anything. All I knew is he was excited. Did he talk much about his relationship with Meg and his plans to get married? We didn't talk about it much. He had only told me about her probably in the beginning of June. And I think it was the beginning of June, and that was about it. You're pretty sure it was as recently as the beginning of June that he told you about it? Yeah. I mean, I didn't know he was seeing anybody until June. What do you recall him saying about Megan and his plans? He was saying that that was his girlfriend that they were planning. He was like, I'm going to ask her to marry her.

5:13And we were talking about how the relationship started. And he said it was his friends. And I said, Joseph, you don't date your friend's ex. I mean, that's weird. And I was like, that's like, okay, say you and I were dating, and we broke up and I dated your best friend. How would you feel about it? He's like, well, I see your point. You're right. I said, but I mean, if you all are cool with it, then go ahead. He's like, yeah, I'm going to marry her. I said, if you're happy, then do it. He's like, I'm going to. I will. I'll do it. I said, okay, well, I'll support you because I'm your friend. And if you're happy, then go ahead.

5:53Go ahead and marry her. He's like, well, thank you. I will. I will do it. Okay. That's what he kept saying. I said, okay, Joseph. You think this is June? Yeah, it was in June when he was telling me about her. Do you know if he discussed it with Blake or X? I didn't even know that was his name. We didn't talk about him or who he was. I have no idea who he is. Okay. So, no, I guess. So he came out to search. Did you meet him? No. The only people I met was his parents and his sister, Selena and Michelle, and that was it. every time I went to the fire hall, I would just start crying. So it was too hard for me.

6:40And then when I asked my family if I should go out there, they said no because it would be too much anxiety for me. Were you aware that he was planning to move in August and get married when he got down there? Daddy shared specifics like that? He was renting a place out in Ice-A-View, and he wasn't really there because he was house-sitting for Judge Esh until he passed away. Then when Jana was coming back, Joseph didn't want to stay at Jana's because he had already given his place up out at Iceview between... Before Judge Esh died, he... I don't know when he gave up his place out at Iceview. And so we were at dinner, and he was telling me that he was looking for a place or needed a short-term place because he would be leaving in August or, you know, leaving soon.

7:33And when I was driving to drop him off at Judge Eshter's house, I was like, why don't you ask Graham to stay at her old house? Because they bought a new house, and so my grandma still has her old house, and nobody was staying there. And I said, Joseph, why don't you ask Graham if you can stay there? I mean, he's like, would you charge me rent? I said, I don't know. You go ask her. You go talk to her. Because I'm like, he's like, can't you? You just go ask her. I said, no, Joseph, you. If you need a place to stay, you go ask her. And then he's like, it's your gram, though. You could ask her. I said, I'm not living there.

8:08And so we talked about it. He was like, well, can you be with me when I ask her? I said, no, you're a grown man. You go ask her. And then I was like, fine, Joseph. Are you ready now? Let's go. He's like, yeah. So we went and talked to Graham. And him and Graham figured out logistics, I guess, to him staying at her house. And so he was going to stay at my gram's house until he was leaving. Okay. Do you know what was going on in Joseph's life in the week leading up to his disappearance? He was just working. Mostly what he did here was probably work, and then he helped out with the known youth court.

8:52And then when he wasn't busy doing that, he was either running or just being at home. I thought he was happy here. He seemed, he liked it here. And then from time to time he would go out, you know, downtown. I mean, do you say that because you think that there's some possibility they commit suicide? I don't think so. I, the feeling I have, I just don't think he would do that. But a lot of suicides, people don't know what they're thinking or could even tell. I mean look at Robin Williams. But I don't believe he would even do that. I've interviewed a lot of people, you know all his relatives and friends, and nobody thought that that was even possible.

9:39His parents are quite religious and it would be awful for them and plus it would, you know, no notes so everybody's left hanging. Nobody really thought that was a possibility. Did you see any depression issues or sadness or anything leading up to his disappearing? No. Okay. Because he told me he was happy. He was looking forward to things. Even in June, when we were at dinner one night, we were talking about how he was asking about the process of dry fish. How do you make dry fish? And so we were going to take him to camp and when the fish were running to show him how to make dry fish. And that was going to be the weekend of the 4th that we're gonna do it and so he was looking forward to that because he just didn't believe I guess he wanted to see how the process was I mean he was eating it but he wanted to see how it was and so the weekend of the 4th Meg was coming was she gonna go out there too um I didn't know she was coming until the public I think Friday we had been out and said she was coming and yeah I didn't I don't have a problem because our family is pretty open to people coming and And, you know, as long as they have a good heart and stuff, we don't, we have an open door.

10:54So it would have been okay if she came out. Yeah, yeah. You know, I understand from reading all the other material that you went out with him Friday night until late. Do you remember seeing anyone or interacting with anyone while you guys were out? No, because it was, well, it was me, Joseph, and my sister. I mean I hate to say I think Kim felt like she was at third will and so he didn't really interact with a lot of people because we would just sit there and talk like we always did just talked about whatever's going on or you know just talking and I didn't see him interact with a lot of people.

11:35How about yourself or Kim did you guys run into people you know? I mean we know a lot of people and so we said hi to a lot of people we talked to other people I mean he was right there with us but and he was real cordial you know saying hi or you know I'm Joseph or you know just he just do you remember who any of those people were that you ran into oh there was a lot of people and plus I mean at the time it wouldn't be something that you have to commit to memory either so I guess I'm just wondering if there's anyone that sticks out do you remember running No. I mean, Joseph literally probably just talked and hung out with Kim and I.

12:11I mean, he didn't really put himself out there to be like, oh, jumping right in and being, you know, real loud. He just kind of wanted to hang out. Do you remember anything that you guys talked about that night? No, he was telling me about Megan, and then nothing really. It was just chit-chat. nothing that I could remember that sticks out is just generally what we talk about. What do you remember him saying about Megan that night? Everything I've said. I mean, he said he had a girlfriend, said he was moving there, that he wants to open a law firm, that he was going to get married to her, and that's about it.

12:47He was saying he has to find a place to live down there, and that was about it. And I guess the understanding that Joseph and I had was that we, unless we directly asked about stuff we didn't really tell all he seemed pretty reserved with his private life i mean we were friends but it wasn't like questions i knew i should ask him or you know oh hey do you have a girlfriend oh what you know and stuff like that i didn't know and not that he couldn't have a girlfriend i just he didn't really have one here in nome so Okay. And that night, did he sound excited about all these big changes in his life?

13:32Yeah, he was excited. He was really excited. He was happy about it, looking forward to it. How much did he drink that night? He was drinking IPAs, and we had some shots at breakers, but mostly beer, because that's what he stuck to. Did he have any shots? Yeah, he had shots with me and Kim, only a couple. And then he stuck to beer because he wasn't a big liquor drinker. I'd like you to use a 1 to 10 scale, with 10 being passed out drunk and 1 being sober, and estimate his level of intoxication by the time you parted ways that evening. I'd say he was probably a 5. I mean, he knows his limits, and he wasn't sober because he had already been drinking before I met up with him.

14:29How do you know that? That he had been drinking? Well, he had ended up texting me between 11 and 12 that night, and then I ended up calling him because I started drinking about 11. And I called him, and I asked him what he was doing. and he said he was having some beer and then he was going to go look for something to eat because he was hungry and I said well maybe by the time you get done eating we can meet up somewhere downtown he said okay well let me get some food and I'll meet up with you and I said well I'm waiting for the sitter anyways so let me know when you're done and that was it okay and then I called him when we were going to town and he said he was at Soap and Suds I think is where he got food from and he asked if I wanted anything that if I wanted something he would bring it and I said no I'm fine I'm okay.

15:24What time was that? We finally met up with him probably about between 12 30 and 1 is when we finally were making it downtown and I almost think it was around yeah between 12 30 and 1 I don't know the exact time when we met up because we met up at Polaris. And Kim and I got there first and we had a drink and then grabbed a beer and then we were waiting and then he showed up. And then where did you last see him that night or early morning? Breakers. I think we parted ways at Breakers because I was feeling pretty drunk. Did he go back to Soap and Suds that night? I don't know. And I don't think I don't know.

16:09and I don't think he would if he ate before because I believe Kim and I got into a cabin we had went home and since he lived right in town he walked and he usually walked anyways About what time do you think you guys parted ways? Probably at bar break. The bar closes about quarter to three or three o 'clock well, the last call was at quarter to two Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers

16:53It's time to be great. Black Friday savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday savings happening now at the Home Depot. Limit one per transaction. Exclusion supply full eligible tool list in-store and online. How firm is your memory about all that? It's fuzzy here and there, but I remember being at Breakers.

17:45I remember being there. We were drinking and then going home. And then by the time I got home, then I don't remember being at home. And then what happened the next day on Saturday? We talked in the morning, but I barely remember what we talked about. And we talked for a while, but I can't remember what we talked about. It was just generally, again, whatever. And it happened to be nice out that day. And I was telling him, I was going to eat something, shower and eat something. We should go to the beach. And so by the time I showered, finally ate something, got all the kids ready. It's too nice to be inside, too hungover to be inside too.

18:27And so he said, okay. And so I got all the kids ready, went down to the beach, and we were waiting for him. and then we were at the beach for a couple hours and then I decided okay well we should well I said we like me and the kids should go to camp because it was nice out and I told Joseph I said if you want to go to camp you're welcome to go you know where it's at he's been to camp before but he said no I'm gonna go look for fish and I kind of laughed and said where are you gonna find fish there's no fish yet it's too early and he's like get the mouse people said they're catching fish I said, okay.

19:05He's like, you can go. I said, I'm not looking for fish. I'm going to camp. So at the end of June, there weren't any strong salmon runs? I don't think so. I mean, there could have been trout, but I didn't think there was fish, but I could have been wrong. People were catching some here and there, but nothing like a strong run. Because, like I said, the weekend of July 4th, we were going to go get dry fish. He was a big fisher person though, right? He liked fishing? Yeah, he said he liked fishing. Did you ever go fishing with him? We did go fishing once. I think last year we had went out to, between Solomon and whatever is after Solomon, I can't think.

19:52East Fork maybe? Between that point we went and had a picnic. Do you think that Joseph went out to mile 44 to fish? Seems like a long way to go for a marginal river. You can find trout and grayling up there. But I don't know. He didn't tell me about the only place he said he was going fishing was at the mouth. The Nome River right here, you know. Not anything out there. He didn't say anything. But, I mean, you can catch trout and grayling. I think at East Fork. And anywhere between East Fork and Solomon. Okay. So you presume that he walked home that night, but you don't know for sure? Yeah. He was a runner.

20:36He was fine with walking, and I said, okay. And he's like, I live right there. He would just point over there because it's actually in town, whereas when he lived out at Isavu, it's right there. I live in town. So he could have gotten a ride with you? No, not in the cab, but it was just Kim and I. Oh, okay. Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph or the truck back in Nome after Saturday afternoon? Not that I know of. I mean, Jake had just moved in to my gram's house, my cousin. And I've never talked to Jake about what he saw or what he thought or what had happened that day. Because Joseph and Jake, I don't know if they really talked.

21:19It was just like a cordial, oh, hey, roommate, you know, type of thing. But I don't know. I know when I came back from camp, I didn't drive over there to see if he was in town or anything, and I didn't text him, so I don't know. I do know on Sunday, because my sister was going to have knee surgery, we were bringing her out there, and we went back to my parents to meet up with my parents, because my mom was going with Kim, and my mom had mentioned, Dad was, I keep forgetting to ask you, how come there's a blue car parked at Graham's house? because Joseph was like, when he was first moving in there, he was like, nobody's going to call the cops on me, right, for me being at that house.

22:00I said, I don't think so. I mean, he's like, okay. And so my dad was going to ask whose blue car that was. We drove down that way, but I don't remember if I saw it or not, but I know my parents had seen it on Sunday because Kim was leaving on the midday flight. What time would they have gone to the airport? I think I brought Kim to check in closer to 11. And I don't know when my parents checked in because we went separately. So did your parents fly to Anchorage? My mom and my sister did because she was going to go have knee surgery. But your dad didn't? No. I don't think so. And this was on? Sunday.

22:43Okay. And I had texted Joseph on Sunday asking him if he wanted to go to the A &B picnic. and I never got an answer and I called him once and it went to voicemail. And I never heard from him on Sunday because he likes going to community things. I always offered him to go places to do things and he never answered about the A &B picnic. Did they say that they definitely saw Joseph's truck at the house on their way to the airport? I would ask them. I mean, because I know my mom had mentioned that dad has been wondering whose car is there. because for a long time there was no cars there and it was just us moving things because I mean I know mom had said dad was wondering and generally we'll ask each other questions if we know something and so mom said dad was wondering whose car was there because his car was always there because he always walked because he was in town did Jake have a car there No.

23:43So he didn't have a vehicle? No, because I think his was down at the time. What kind of car is it normally? Before Jake moved out of his dad's, it was, and before the car broke down, I think it was a green, I can't even tell you the brand or what type, it's a small green car. Do you remember Joseph ever talking about anyone that he was having problems with in home? He never said anything, but I don't think he's the type of person to have someone be mad at him because he would confront, if there was an issue, he would ask him about it. I don't think he was that type of person to have anybody mad at him.

24:21What about someone related to his work at the court? He kept to himself at the court. I mean, he would come up and do his work and talk to us, but he generally kept to himself in his office, and I don't think he had any misunderstandings with anybody, but it wouldn't be one of those questions. I would ask Joseph, oh, hey, Joseph, is anybody mad at you today? Or, you know, he didn't say anything, so I didn't know to ask. So do you know anything about this whole issue with Jake's.308 rifle that Kevin had taken over to their house and put down in the storage room after Joseph went missing? We were talking about it at Graham's one day.

25:01I never asked Kevin about it, but Bonnie and Graham had mentioned that Kevin had brought a gun over to Jake's house, and I don't know if Kevin told anybody or what. Bonnie had just said that it was in the grocery room, I think is where he said he put it. Was that like a storage area downstairs? Yeah. Whose rifle was it? Bonnie was saying it was Jake's, but I don't know if Jake ever had any guns. I mean, I don't know. I would imagine Jake having guns and his dad goes hunting. Sure, yeah. So I would imagine Jake. You're a guy looking out here, you'd think so. Yeah. And you don't recall Joseph ever saying anything about fishing in the Solomon River out that far, out of 44 miles?

25:49No. I'm sure he would have an idea about fishing out there because, like I said, when we went to that picnic, my dad had went fishing. but he's never he never said anything yeah i'm going fishing out there or was that picnic near there there's a straightaway that happens out there and i don't even know what mild is but you could turn off to the right and then you go down a little bit and there's this little pit area where we next to the river where we had a picnic this is the area where his truck was is between I don't know. I haven't gone out there since Joseph has been missing. It's hard enough for me to go to camp.

26:32So I just have bad anxiety. And I want to go out there to see where it is. When you walk into a Burlington, you're walking into amazing prices and great gifts. That's main character energy. because at Burlington, the holiday savings aren't the only things turning heads. Discover quality finds and perfect presents for everyone on your list, even those who are hard to shop for. Toys and jewelry to new beauty brands and styles, these gifts go seamlessly from our stores to under your tree. Seriously, with these savings, why shop anywhere else?

27:11This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, Smart Move. Being financially savvy? Smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. With MultiView from Xfinity, you can watch up to four football games at once, which can lead to some tough choices.

27:47French toast nibblers or breakfast nachos? Actually, I was thinking about heading out only because I want to beat the traffic. The best part of the sleepovers the next day was going to throw the games on. Bobby Big Wheels. I mean, how can you call yourself a sports fan without Xfinity? We got the multi-view. The best college and pro games all in one place? I'm not going anywhere. This is how football was meant to be watched. Xfinity. Imagine that. Restrictions apply. Multi-view requires Xfinity 4K capable TV box. Did Joseph ever talk with you about running the ridges out in that area? He had mentioned a hike that when we were out on that ride on the picnic, he said he wanted to do the Shovel Mountain hike.

28:23It was a real nice hill that you could just run up and run back down, and he said he wanted to do that, and someday he'll do it. And that this was on the picnic when we were going back into town. I knew he went hiking, but the only other hike he mentioned about doing was like a 473 or 437 hike, but I think that one's on the Teller Road. I don't know. Where is Shovel Mountain? It's in that general area. I would have to go out there to show you to know where it's at. So did they search there? I don't know. Did anyone tell them about that? I want to say, I think Kirk mentioned that they were around between, they looked all around the Shovel Mountain, East Fork, where his car was, by that mine dredge area, in that area out there, but just all around that area.

29:12How well do you know Jake, and what are your general impressions of him? I used to babysit Jake when he was younger. And through the years, we would always have family dinner, but to be like, oh yeah, I hang out with Jake all the time, it wasn't like that because I was a lot older and had my own things going on and never really hung out with Jake. I did support him when he was playing basketball and doing high school stuff. I supported him. I would go watch the games here, you know, I'd ask how everything's going, and then he left for school and just really didn't talk to Jake. Did he go to UAA?