Kristal Reisinger: Part 2 - The Men Who Knew Too Much

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1:53Thank you so much for listening.

2:09Patience, my friends. That's something I've told myself over and over again, especially in season two, the disappearance of Crystal Risinger. And I'm not the best at it. If you've been keeping up, you might have noticed that some of these episodes have been coming out in a bit of a strange order. Dates have been off. Timelines have felt a little messy. And I just want to say that's on me. The thing is, right now, we're not just putting out a podcast. We're also getting real-time feedback from the real people involved in these cases. People who were there. People who are still living with the fallout.

2:51And when they come to me with new information, I have to make a decision. Wait or hold it for later. Or move fast and get it to you as soon as possible. And we're choosing to move fast. So while it may feel slow and parsed out here at first, just stick with me. And what you can absolutely count on is that you're going to get a brand new episode of Up and Vanished every single Friday over the next month, no matter what. And on top of that, we're likely to drop even more episodes in between. As these new updates come in, we ingest the information, and then give it back to you. And just as a reminder, every one of these episodes is all leading us back to the Up and Vanished Season 4 finale in The Midnight Sun.

3:41So we're still on track, and we're still going to take this all the way to the end. Alright, let's get into it.

3:58The Navajo Indians have considered Crestone sacred ground. It was a very bright place during the day, and then that night was a very dark place. Crystal was a very smart, talented young lady. The one thing she loved more than anything in life was our daughter. Some people were scared after the podcast came out. She was about ready to go to the police about being raped. People didn't want her to make that report. I suspect that I'll play. Justice would be served and get ready. Because we're going to get everybody who's involved. Crystal had a best friend named Mikey, and his mother Angela had been asking questions around Crestone, getting close to people who knew what really happened.

4:50One of those people was tight with Dready Brian. Now, if you've listened to season two, this name may sound familiar. Dready Brian. His real name is Brian Otten. And he's right up there next to Catfish when it comes to persons of interest. His presence in this story is undeniable. Dready Brian had a relationship with Crystal. He lived with her. And according to people who knew him, he was dangerous. Some of the names we need to edit out is kind of my eyes and ears up there. She was friends with Brian.

5:33Obviously, they think he's involved. Or they think he knows something. I said, you be careful with him. that's when she told me you were right. She heard him say that Crystal's better off dead. This is after she went missing? Yeah, she told me this a couple weeks ago.

5:57Dready Brian is his nickname. He has been overheard many times saying Crystal deserves to be dead, and it's a good thing she's dead. That's really telling. There's that group of people that are really heavy into the drug scene. There are messages saying, hey man, you haven't paid me for my drugs. The problem that I see is no one's going to talk unless they move out of Preston, because they go disappear too. They're very dangerous people from what Wayne says. i asked wayne how does he make a living well he doesn't have to his dad gives him money

6:47wayne was a local police officer and from the very start something about him felt off his behavior towards me was strange sometimes even outright suspicious but he had an incredibly close relationship with angela and he told her a lot about the case it makes you wonder why was a cop so loose-lipped about an ongoing investigation and why do you seem so interested in making sure people knew his version of events but what really stands out is what he didn't say he lived with her he ended up crashing her car and crystal was very upset about that and they had a falling out that may have been part of the catalyst.

7:37He's the one that ended up bringing her to Crestone for the summer. The more I dug into Brian's past, the more unsettling things became. He wasn't just a guy that Crystal knew. He was a part of her life before she even came to Crestone. And the closer she got to the end, the more tangled up he seemed to be. When I talked to Brian that night, I talked to him for four hours. Four hours talking to him, I got a pretty good feel that he was not a good guy. Certain things that he would say, tones that he had, it was not sincere. When did he say that he last saw her? The drum circle, and she was seen walking off from it.

8:29you could tell that it was not sincere. So here's where we're at. We know that Dready Brian, Brian Otten, was involved in Crystal's life. We know his name keeps coming up over and over. And we know that people were scared of him. But how do we get from suspicion to proof? Well, back in 2016, Crystal's friend Mikey did something kind of risky. He picked up the phone and called Brian himself. Here's a transcript from that phone call. The last time I actually saw Crystal was over a month ago, maybe around six weeks back. I remember the last drum circle, it was about two and a half weeks ago. I was drumming for hours, drinking and smoking, and I swear I heard her voice.

9:23and someone else said they thought she was there too, but I can't say for sure. The last time I actually spoke with her was the day after the full moon before last. She came by and mentioned that Catfish had posted something about me on Facebook. We had argued because she did some work at Catfish's house and didn't pay her. during that conversation she told me she thought someone might have drugged her she wasn't sure but it was something she mentioned I know Crystal was on a very spiritual path sometimes she felt disconnected from the world like she didn't belong here either that or she had stopped taking her medication and she had a tendency to party hard Honestly, probably harder than anyone else in her group.

10:22As for the people she was hanging around, they seemed okay. She had good friends, but I can't say for sure what kind of crowd she was with all the time. Some were more spiritual. Some were just partying. She had spent time at Catfish's place. I actually went to talk to Catfish recently. He's not great at hiding emotions. and he didn't seem nervous or like he was lying. If he was involved, he'd have to be a real sociopath, but I didn't get that vibe from him. If she did go off into the mountains, I wouldn't know exactly where. There are trails and campgrounds just a mile or so outside town, and she used to navigate by the stars, so it's possible she went out there.

11:15But this town is small. If she were around, people would know. Listening to the call, you start to notice patterns. Deflection, evasion. A guy who's just a little too careful with his words. And then there's moments where he seems to slip. Where he seems to say a little too much. This brings us to a man named Sean. Sean was a guy I met in Crestone, who was very close to all the key players. And his stories, well, they were strange. the details always shifted sometimes things didn't quite add up but what made Sean different was that he was willing to talk over and over again so I kept calling him effort catfish several times he's woken up and said something catfish was like I didn't I didn't think they'd kill her I've heard him say that a couple times.

12:12I don't know if you know this, but I was living with a catfish up until like a month ago. I just heard that Brian should have admitted to it. I think she's in Brendan Pulver's mom's basement. Catfish is not a stupid person. If he was going to plan anything, it would be to the T. And I'm thinking that they moved the body more than once would be my guess. And I'm going to be honest with you, Brian's a very dark person. I think the incinerator would be my guess. That they did maybe three or four different times. And then finally they incinerated, it would be my guess. And that's what I've heard. This is a small community, you know, and people talk.

12:59Yeah, there's an incinerator there. I'm not quite sure, but I just heard that there's an incinerator there. I've never seen it. They're scared of catfish. A lot of people are scared of catfish. I'm scared of catfish a little bit. I'm scared of Potter. I'm scared of his wife. I'm not scared of anyone else that's involved. His family has power. I mean, they have major, major power. They've had private detectives follow drug dealers around and have them arrested to keep the drugs away from catfish. I mean, they're very powerful people. For over a year, Sean and I went back and forth, mostly on Facebook Messenger.

13:39Every now and then, he'd drop little pieces of information. Some of it useful. Some of it outright bizarre. But every once in a while, he'd say something that made me stop and think, is he just repeating rumors? Or does he actually know something? Here's a summary of our year-long exchange on Facebook. I can talk. But I'm working. Call me later. Look, man, I talked to John, Catfish, and I changed my mind. I don't think he did it himself, but I think he paid for it. Or set it up. That's more his style. He wouldn't have the stomach to actually do it without breaking down. You want to know what happened?

14:25Crystal blackmailed the wrong people. She was raped by Pulver, Otten, Keenan. That much I know. She tried to use it against them, especially John, and then, well, John knows how to handle problems. I think he paid someone or convinced Otten and Pulver to take care of it. Josh? I think they brought him in after the fact, maybe to set him up, maybe by accident. But listen, you don't understand how Chris Stone works. Everyone acts like these hippie mountain people, but it's all a front. There are dangerous people here. And when you start asking questions, people start talking. And when people start talking, people start disappearing.

15:16You want to crack this case? Bring them all in together. Make them think one of them is already talking, and they'll fold. You only need a whisper of betrayal, and they'll turn on each other. I know these types. I've seen some crazy shit, man. Pulver and Catfish. They have nightmares. Like wake up screaming nightmares. Heard Pulver screaming about the girl. Catfish too, man. They argue about it. Two falls ago, Pulver shot John in the hand. They were blaming each other. That's on record somewhere. And I don't know if I even want to say this, but there's someone else. someone worse someone already in prison for something just like this john and him deny knowing each other but i know for a fact they do wouldn't be surprised if he was the one actually hired to do it i don't want to say his name here but call me later and now now i'm fucked people know i talked it's out i got a hit on me you don't get a pain in my world a snitch is a snitch and snitches die.

16:33I was told straight up it'll be someone I trust. Someone close to me. That's how it's going to happen. Big cat? Harmless? Yeah, because anyone he's done something to is already dead. Catfish? His family will pay to protect him. You don't get how deep this goes. Listen, Brian Otten? He's in Salida. Brendan Pulver? Still in Crestone. Josh Pierce, California. El Centro, I think. Now's your shot, man. Catfish is in jail. If you pressure him right, he'll crack. He's not as strong as he pretends to be. Tell Cahill someone else got arrested and started talking. That'll make him panic. And look, I've been a mess.

17:19I know that. I blamed you for a lot of shit, but I get it now. You're actually trying, and I want these people to pay. One last thing. Michael Burke. Fallsburg. New York. Maria Scorsese. Look up her case. They ruled it a suicide, but it wasn't. Same kind of guy as Fish. Same kind of evil. That's all I got, man. I'm done with this. but if something happens to me now you know at this point we have two names that won't go away Dready Brian and Catfish John no matter where I looked everything in this case led back to them

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19:23Good help. Get out! Is hard to find. You need me to do this. A Hulu original. The hand that rocks the cradle. Rated R. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundled subscribers. Terms apply. There's someone I want you to hear from. She's not from Creststone, but she's spent enough time there. and with the people involved in Crystal's case to know exactly how things worked there. She wasn't some outsider with wild theories. She was someone who knew these people personally. She knew the key players, Dready Bryant, Catfish. And over the years, she started noticing things they weren't saying out loud.

20:05The things that they avoided, the things they laughed off when they thought no one was listening. I first got in contact with her through Facebook. She was nervous, because people who talk in Crestone have a way of disappearing. But eventually, over the course of almost a year, she could no longer keep quiet. During her time in Crestone, she became close with Dready Bryan. Close enough for him to let his guard down. And she had seen firsthand what that looked like. What you're about to hear is a summarized version of a Facebook conversation I had with her that took place over the course of almost two years.

20:49everyone is angry about you asking them questions i left town i have something i want to say but i'm scared if anyone finds out i said it i'm in danger crystal is buried on property owned by the Strom family in Baca. Good luck solving it.

21:12You can't go up against wealthy families. Their kids can do whatever they want, and money covers everything. The Pierce boys won't confess, and Catfish won't either. They drugged Crystal, held her there, and took photos. She overdosed, and they called in others to help hide it. she wasn't the first girl they did this to everyone knows but is too afraid to speak up

21:48I was threatened after talking to you because you got close to the truth I had to leave she's not in a mineshaft she's buried in the baka someone threatened me saying it wouldn't be a problem to add another body there.

22:15Josh Pierce knows. Robert knows. Brian knows. But they won't talk because it would implicate them. Crystal was dosed with heroin and meth, then buried in Baca. If this information helps, Give Akasha the reward money. Tell her it's from her mom, a gift from the spirit world. I'm deleting this conversation. Don't respond.

22:50He trusts me, and he was drunk. Only kids and drunk people tell the truth. I got a confession from Brian Otten.

23:03I'm sorry, but I didn't record it. I'm sorry, Payne. Brian said this. I threw her into the living room from the balcony. It broke her bones. And she died. He told me this yesterday. I'm with him right now. I'll try to get him to say something on tape.

23:31He admitted this to me about an hour ago. He said, I did something extremely violent and got away with it. We were sitting with four others, but no one else seemed to realize what he meant. He said, she was everywhere.

23:50Don't message me back. I almost got caught when he looked at my phone. He's drinking a lot and getting comfortable. I'm scared. He's suspecting something. His vibe changed. He said there were witnesses. He thinks he got away with it, but he's still paranoid. I'm scared. I just left immediately. I'm so sorry. But find that balcony.

24:31Pain, why is it that Brian has confessed to multiple people yet nothing has been done? Same story. He threw her from a balcony in a jealous rage. Why can't they charge him? Crystal was cremated. She's the sunrise over Sangre de Christos.

24:56Find that balcony.

25:01Angela had been digging just as much as I had, and the things she was uncovering, they all made one thing very clear. Crystal's story wasn't just some tragic mystery. It was a cover-up.

25:31The landlord talked to her for a long time. She went up Crystal's apartment, which was above her, knocked on the door and Crystal came to the door crying. She had been raped. She had been drugged and she had been raped. Crystal was debating on whether to go to the police or not about it. I've always had the feeling that maybe two people are involved in her rape and the other one may have been Brian because Catfish and Brian were pretty close.