Status: Untraced - E4: Under One More Rock

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1:37As promised, here is Status Untraced, Episode 4. You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

2:09Jonathan Skeels kindly shared his Dropbox, containing hundreds of videos and photos from the 2016 search. And we begin to comb through it. These are the most notable finds. Number one. Photos showing the contents inside Justin's backpack from Kalga. It includes 20 unused pills of Xanax, a total of 120 tabs of Viagra, three boxes of Durex condoms, and$720 in U.S. cash. Number two. There are videos of the interrogations of Barbara Watt and Porter Anil Kumar. They can say something about what happened that day. Why didn't he say that before?

2:55Most of the interrogations are conducted in Hindi, so I send them to a translation service and await a response. And finally, number three, a video shot by Jonathan Skeels and an Indian mountaineer that captured one of the most important moments in the search. I saw the flute! Flute, flute! Flute! Yes! The mountaineer creeps along a ledge of tall, dry grass. At a steep plunge below is the river. Oh my god. So, this is what I spotted here. I see the flute of the guy who is missing.

3:42Oh god. This is the flute, right? It looks like it. It's fresh. you can take out oh shit so it's close it's a lighter yeah i see a lighter also i'm not touching anything oh hell fucking baba he didn't fully fall here he can't fall i'm sure he can't fall you won't see fruit here like this and you won't see close like this again should we open it to confirm it's his using a stick they poke at a backpack rain cover that has been rolled up inside is a brown fabric shawl and a gray head wrap

4:35it's justin skills takes hold of the camera and his attention is drawn to the mystery surrounding one particular item, the flute staff. It looks like there's an impression, like someone was sitting almost. Like a flagpole, the flute staff is jammed straight into the ground. Right behind it, a slight impression in the grass, as if someone sat down. I can't make sense of it. It's as if these items were intentionally left behind.

5:20Sometimes I get the feeling I'm lost Just hiding it is never enough Now I find that every miracle goes Only once I saw the killer Once I saw the killer of clothes I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced. Episode 4, Under One More Rock.

6:01I don't know, you think about, like, If this is where she was and her son's all the way in India. Yeah. It's kind of like a completely different world. It's almost too massive to even comprehend. Are we late? Are we on time? We're right on time. Alex May reconvened and quickly made plans for another trip, this time headed north to Salem, Oregon, a small town an hour outside of Portland. We've intended to make a trip here for some time, to visit Justin's mother, Susie Reeb. She's invited us to an Italian restaurant in town, and as we walk by, we spot her sitting by a large window. I think that's her right there.

6:48Hey! How's it going? I'm doing great here. Susie welcomes us with warm hugs, radiating kindness. She's draped in a bohemian blouse and adorned with turquoise jewelry. I imagine she would have glowed in the sunlight if it weren't for the dreary skies. Though, given the situation, everything feels a bit gray. We try to keep the conversation lighthearted. But naturally, we find ourselves talking about Justin. For me, it was the greatest experience to be a mother and to be his mother. Yeah.

7:27But someone had said to me, oh you were Justin's best friend. I'm like no I wouldn't I would never see myself that way. Do we have a great relationship? Yes in many ways. Did he keep things for me to protect me because he was a protective son? Yes. He would tell me after the fact when he had done something that was dangerous. He didn't want me to worry until it was all better. Occasionally, as Susie shares anecdotes about her son, her eyes cloud and drift towards the window, as if in a distant place. The loss of losing her only child is something she says will never heal, but she tries to cope with trips to Utah.

8:18I'm going back. That's kind of like my sacred place. It's where I go. And it was very healing for me. after Justin's murder, which it's been hard to say that word. But somebody, you know, would always come up in a conversation, oh, you have family or you have kids or somebody who didn't know me. Well, I had a son. He recently passed away. But I was angry that I had to say that because my child had just been murdered.

8:51This is also part of the reason we're here, to try to better grasp the murder theory. Where did it originate from? What evidence points to foul play? And why does Justin's mother so full-heartedly believe her son was killed? We wrapped dinner and meet at a shared office the next day. Susie walks us through her experience, much of it familiar, but some stories are new, such as her struggles with contacting the U.S. Embassy for help. How did you feel trying to reach out to the embassy and just nobody seemed to be getting back to you? Crazy frustrated, angry, just beyond angry. Yeah. You know, by that time, all I cared about was getting there, boots on the ground and begin.

9:36I just felt I had to move now. I did not, I couldn't wait for anybody.

9:44The first article announcing Justin's disappearance was not from India. but the Portland Tribune on October 8th. In it, Susie is quoted saying, I want to make noise. I want people aware of this. And the Kulu police, they were not initially supportive. They were just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've heard this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were just discounting our interest. He's just gone missing. He's probably out doing drugs and, you know. It was very difficult to convince them. And we had to show pictures of Justin being healthy and strong and that he was very skilled, a very skilled tracker.

10:22We had to show them aerial photography of the path going in and out. There was only one way in and out, and he just completely vanished. It was very, very tough. Two days after arriving in Kulu, Susie filed an FIR. First information report. The official missing person submission. Thanks to Jonathan Skeels, I now have a copy. Signed by Susie Reeb at 2.37 India time, the FIR ends with the following. We suspect Baba or his porter have done something wrong or not telling the truth and are potentially responsible for his kidnapping with intention to murder. It's the first documented record of any criminal accusation against Baba Rawat and Anil Kumar.

11:13After the FIR submission, India media outlets such as Midday, the Indian Express and Hill Post, started reporting on Justin's disappearance. According to Susie, law enforcement also became more proactive in the case, particularly regarding Barbara Watt. Police knew that they had to be on board because it was getting too much notoriety. I had been on TV, the articles in the newspaper had been, it was all over about Justin and his situation. We were rattling a lot of chains. And they're like, well, do you want us to have this guy arrested? And, you know, and like, yes. They couldn't believe it. They just didn't believe it.

11:54It was very, very difficult. I ask what made Susie so sure of Barbara Watt's guilt. And she refers to her last call with Justin. And this last experience he had with Watt, I didn't feel good about it. In fact, I felt it was dangerous. It sounds strange, but I just, in my mother's heart, something was not okay. I felt that he was a nefarious character, in my heart and in my gut. This is a nefarious character. What about Anil, the porter that was with him? Did you ever feel that he had some involvement in the disappearance?

12:39Let's put it this way. It was a team effort. And I know that later that the porter helped in the search effort when I left. You know, people that light fires, arsonists, or do crimes often return and observe. He changed his story three or four times, just like the Baba. The Baba changed his story about five or six times. And by the way, he's left India. Nobody knows where he's at. They think he went back to Nepal. And Rawat wasn't Indian after all. He was Nepalese. No, it was a team effort. This I am sure of. That's all I can say to you. It was both of them. It was a team thing. Did you guys ever see a body of Rawat?

13:33I wouldn't want to see. Yeah. I wouldn't care. Yeah. maybe somebody helped him. I'm not saying that they didn't do that because they wanted him gone. However, the fact that it ended that way caused a lot of problems. After Babur Awat's death, the Indian authorities cleaned house. The prison guard was suspended, and every officer involved with the case, including the superintendent, have since been discharged or restationed across India. The FIR's mention of kidnapping and murder definitely made waves and put a spotlight on Justin's disappearance. But something about it leaves me uneasy. Were these murder claims based on anything solid?

14:21Or was Barbara Watt simply a convenient scapegoat to provoke a response from high-ranking officials, someone to shoulder the blame and, perhaps, offer a needed sense of closure? The truth is, we still need more evidence to untangle these mysteries. So I turn our conversation with Susie Reeb to an idea we haven't previously touched on, hoping to open new doors.

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16:33When you were in India, but Justin's Google account, like, and his password, you haven't gotten access into that yet, correct? No, and I have connections at Google. Yeah. And if that was possible, it would have been done by now. I think there was a big search for his phone. That was the big thing because that's where he did everything. He recorded everything on his phone. Yeah. Yeah, people ask me for Justin's password. I've had so many people ask, and I just... Don't help me. Mm-mm. Tried everything. Justin's digital accounts are of interest because they could hold a wealth of information, like location tracking and final communications.

17:11With no leads, we postpone looking into the accounts. And as our interview winds down, Susie makes a kind offer. So, you know, I have a lot of magnificent experiences and stories, but they're a little too woo-woo for you guys. But I have his first pair of shoes, and I have the flute staff downstairs. You said you might want to see it. I would love to see that. So before we go, I can just, because my car's right out here. She leads us outside to her car, parked on the side of the street. One by one, she pulls Justin's trinkets and personal belongings out of her trunk. Oh, look at this. Wow. That is cool.

17:50Do you want to try it over? She encourages me to try on and feel the weight of Justin's brown leather jacket. This is the head wrap. I run my fingers over the tattered gray head wrap. But here it is here. You're seeing it now in the real flesh, not just seeing it. And then she presents an item that has been circling my thoughts. The flute walking staff. That's a sturdy tooth. Yeah.

18:25By the time I met Susie, I had been looking into Justin Alexander's disappearance for nearly a year. I had immersed myself in everything he'd shared online, from his writings to every picture and video on Instagram. I'd met up with his friends and spent hours talking. So many hours, they can't all fit into the show. after following in Justin's footsteps for so long I'm starting to feel like I knew him and holding these personal items now makes it even more real these are the last traces of a man of a son who had so much more to give and knowing this feeling it in my hands makes everything unknown in Justin's disappearance harder to bear One by one, I hand the items back to Susie Reeb.

19:21I wish her a peaceful retreat to Utah. And we plan to keep in touch.

19:35Back in Los Angeles, Alex and I strategize on how to track the porter, Anil Kumar, and access Justin's digital footprints. Both missions are way outside our realm of expertise. So we make a call. Hey. Merging you in. Perfect. I believe I have both of you guys here. Hi, good morning. Morning. This is our first time meeting, but a voice I'm familiar with. Jaden Brandt is a private detective and founder of Origin Investigations, who aided in the searches for Adaya Shabani and Elaine Park. the missing person cases that are the focus of the podcast To Live and Die in L.A. Hey, correct me if I'm wrong.

20:18You're actually trying to investigate this case, not simply document it, correct? Correct. There has been a decent amount of investigation into the guy that went missing. There is one suspect, though, that was arrested and then let go. He's either an Indian national or he's Nepal national, and so our goal is to try to track him down. You know, whether we're looking for a subject or we're trying to get information on an individual or company or things like that, doing that here in the U.S. is a very straightforward process. Overseas, it's much more reliant on your kind of personal currency. If I'm headed to China and I need to speak to someone there, I don't even begin to look for anybody.

21:09I just make a phone call and have someone else do it. So that's going to be challenging. It's not impossible. It's just a matter of getting the right resources or getting on the ground and making it happen over there. Jayden's foreign connections are predominantly in China and Thailand, but he offers to dig up what contacts he can for PIs in India. Independently, Alex and I plan to do the same. I then asked Jaden for his advice on accessing Justin's digital accounts, and if it's possible to make a request from companies like Google. Okay, so what do you guys have now in terms of, do you have devices of his?

21:50We have nothing of his currently. Okay. I mean, in terms of getting it from Google, that's not really going to happen. I mean, because first thing I'm thinking is, you know, if you can get access to a phone that has his same number, you can start to look at trying to get into some of those accounts through two-factor authentication. Two-factor authentication is an extra layer of security on your online accounts. You've probably seen it before. You log in with your username and password, and then, to confirm it's really you, a secret PIN is sent to your phone. This sort of security is also used when resetting your account passwords.

22:33So what Jaden is saying is if we could somehow get a hold of Justin's old phone number, we might have a shot at changing his passwords. Meaning we'd basically have a key to his entire online world. Stuff like email, Google, and iCloud. We don't know who currently owns the number, so I called Justin's mom Susie to figure it out. Alex and I have been talking about, you know, maybe there's a way that we can get into his Google account and track, like, the location. So if you have his phone number and you figure out if that phone number is still active or if it isn't active. Okay, so here's, okay, I'm going to interrupt you here.

23:13Because I have had this habit for four and a half years of every so often calling Justin's number. Yeah. I just called and I leave messages. and had this experience where it said it had been read. Then I didn't get a response, and I contacted Jonathan, and he said that they probably already reassigned the number. This is true. Your number can be reassigned if you don't pay your phone bill. So I don't know what's going on. I will give you the number. Hold on. So I'm going to need to reach out to those people. and try to and kind of explain the scenario because the idea is that we're going to try to go to his Google account and then say we forgot the password because it should send a two-form authorization code to the phone and then hopefully find something.

24:11Well, I'm okay with whatever you need to do. Shall I give you the number? Absolutely. Yes, please. Perfect. From your knowledge that was the one he was calling you from yeah okay and then the other question is what email do you think he would have had attached to his google account probably but yeah it's disbanded we jonathan and i just checked that last month too the other thing that we could look through justin had an iphone right yeah we might be able to get his Apple account through that somehow as well, actually. So that would be kind of our possibilities there. But we'll try the Google one first.

24:59Okay. And this may be a complete dead end, but whatever option we can possibly take to maybe find something. I have a similar conversation with Justin's father, Terry Shetler. And with both parents' permission, I launch into tracking down the current phone number owner. I call Justin's number. It rings, and I get a voicemail. Thank you for calling. This number is now owned and operated by a private company in Northern California, and I spend the next couple of weeks trying to get in touch with someone. Finally, their secretary, who, for the sake of the podcast we'll call Savannah, picked up. She didn't recognize the number, and after talking to her boss, insisted that the company didn't own it.

25:48A little thrown off, I called the number again. And yeah, I was absolutely sure the number belonged to the Northern California company. Except this time, I noticed something strange about the voicemail. It sounded exactly like Savannah. I know this is asking you a lot, but could I actually have you just call that number? Because it goes directly to a voicemail and it sounds a lot like the same voice, which I believe is your voice. Savannah calls the number herself and agrees with me. It's her voice. She promises to look into the ownership of the number and what they can do to transfer it. So while Savannah begins that process, I decide to look into one more lead, a tracking expert who analyzed the location where Justin's items were found.

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