In short
Up and Vanished - Episode 6: Status: Untraced - "He Looks Guilty"
Podcast Overview Host: Payne Lindsey Description: The podcast explores mysterious cold case disappearances, with each season focusing on a different case. Season 4 investigates the disappearances in Nome, Alaska, particularly Justin Alexander's case.
Episode Summary In this episode, titled "He Looks Guilty," the narrative follows the mysterious disappearance of Justin Alexander. The investigation leads the host and his team to explore a series of unsettling patterns of disappearances in the Parvati Valley region of India, where Justin was last seen.
Key Themes and Discussions
Cold Case Context
- Justin Alexander disappeared while trekking in the Parvati Valley.
- The episode outlines a chilling pattern of mysterious disappearances in the same region, involving several foreign travelers over the years.
Historical Disappearances in Parvati Valley
- 1991: Odette Houghton, last seen in Manali.
- 1996: Ian Mugford vanished after befriending a local baba (sage).
- 1997: Nedav Mincer’s remains were found years after he disappeared.
- 2000: Attacks on campers, leading to deaths and disappearances.
- 2015: Bruno Muschalik disappears, raising concerns about police investigations.
- 2016: Shota Sakai goes missing shortly before Justin’s case.
Investigation Journey
- The episode details the host's travel to India to pursue leads regarding Justin's disappearance, highlighting the challenges faced in gathering information.
- The exploration includes interviewing locals, including a private investigator and guides familiar with the area.
Crucial Interview Insights
- The episode features interactions with locals, including a porter and a baba, who were last known to be with Justin.
- Baba Rawat's Statement: Claims Justin wanted to stay behind while they descended, leading to speculation about his fate.
- Anil Kumar, the Porter: Provides conflicting accounts about Justin's final moments, raising suspicions about both his and Baba's involvement.
Community Reactions
- The investigation uncovers a local search and rescue operator, Korkhan, who is rumored to exploit missing persons for profit.
- There are suspicions that the local community is aware of a pattern but is reluctant to disclose information due to fear or complicity.
The Unfolding Mystery
- A couple who passed Anil while descending the mountain is identified as potential witnesses but haven't come forward with any information.
- The show concludes with a cliffhanger, deepening the mystery surrounding Justin's disappearance and hinting at a larger, more sinister context.
Key Takeaways
- Suspicion Surrounding Key Figures: The baba and the porter exhibit behaviors that raise red flags, leading to increasing concern about their involvement in Justin's fate.
- Cultural Context: The complexity of navigating local customs, language barriers, and the interactions with law enforcement complicates the investigation.
- Importance of Local Knowledge: The episode emphasizes the necessity of understanding local dynamics and narratives when investigating disappearances in foreign regions.
- Call for Information: The podcast invites listeners to contribute any tips or information related to Justin’s case or the broader context of disappearances in the area.
Conclusion This episode of *Up and Vanished* delves deep into the intricacies of a mysterious disappearance in a region fraught with similar cases. It raises questions about the safety of travelers in remote areas and the potential collusion of local figures in exploiting vulnerable individuals. The narrative is rich with suspense, drawing listeners into the ongoing investigation and leaving them eager for further developments.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire. Anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go, let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void word prohibited by law. 21+. TNCs apply. Welcome to Radio Rental.
0:41The scariest stories you've ever heard in your life. All told by real people. And off we go. This wasn't a human being that I saw. There's something here in this house. Something out of this world. There was a woman moving through the hall. I stepped back and I was completely alone. Radio Rental is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Up in Advantage presents Status Untraced. Episode 6 starts now. You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.
1:29This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. India has reopened its borders to foreign tourists and has ended a 20-month clampdown due to the coronavirus pandemic. The reopening of international borders comes at a time... We purchased tickets scheduled to land in New Delhi November 17, 2021, two days after travel restrictions lift. In preparation for the trip, I dig deeper into the Parvati Valley. What I find is chilling. A dark pattern stretching back decades. The earliest I find it begins is in the summer of 91.
2:20Odette Houghton, 24, from Australia, was living her travel dream in India. regularly writing to her family and sharing her adventures. Suddenly, the letters sent to Odette began to return, and she was reported missing. She was last seen in Manali, but since, there has been no trace of her.
2:44August 1996, Ian Mugford, a 21-year-old from the UK, was exploring the Himalayan village of Manikaran. There, he befriended a baba. And soon after, Ian disappeared. To date, there's been no sign of him.
3:06September 1997. Nedav Mincer, 26, an Israeli soldier, went missing in the Purvati Valley. Four years later, his passport was discovered being offered for sale in Manali markets, and his remains were found wrapped up in a sleeping bag.
3:25July 2000 Two young German travelers, Jorge Weirich and Adrian Mayer Tesch were camping in the valley when they were ambushed in their sleep Adrian escaped with four shotgun wounds to the leg but Jorge was killed at point-blank range A month later UK resident Martin Young was camping in the valley with his fiancee Maria and her 14-year-old son Cristobal when they were also attacked. No one was arrested. No witnesses ever came forward. Martin is the only one who survived.
4:04July 2007. Five Israelis and a tour guide set out from Kirganga on a Sunday morning. Dror Shek, 23, started to lag behind. One of his friends went back to look for him and found Jor lying near the path bleeding. Beside him, a knife stained with blood. The hikers carried Jor back to Kirganga. He didn't make it.
4:32August 2015, a year before Justin's disappearance, Bruno Muschalik, a 24-year-old Polish traveler, went missing in the Parvati. Bruno's father, Pieter, was suspicious of the police's efforts and has filed a report with the High Court of Himachal Pradesh, demanding an independent agency investigate law enforcement.
4:56June 2016, just two months before Justin began his trek, 27-year-old Japanese backpacker Shota Sakai shared a photo on Facebook of an Indian man in a dhoti. He captioned it, It's believed Shota was headed to the Parvati for a music festival. But two weeks after the Guru post, all his communications went cold. Records hint that over 57 foreign travelers died in the region between 98 to 2009 alone. But the true number of disappearances is likely more harrowing. I've remained hesitant to jump to conclusions about foul play within Justin's case. After all, motives are murky. Reasons unclear. Why target him?
5:47But now, looking at this list, my skepticism is giving way. And what I find out next leaves chills running down my spine. Just past midnight, 21 hours before our flight, the Times of India publishes breaking news. A tourist, last seen on the trail leading to Kyrganga, has just gone missing.
6:24Sometimes I get the feeling I'm lost Just hiding it is never enough Now I find that every miracle goes Only once I saw the killer Once I saw the killer of clothes I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced. Episode 6, He Looks Guilty.
7:09Have you had that stuff to cut out before? Yes. I need to do that one too. Okay. Can I test your one? Test this one. It's nearing 7 p.m. when Alex and I check in at LAX. The one you filled out? Yeah. Our itinerary, Paris first, then onward to Nadelle.
7:31The trip is long. In fact, it's the longest flight I've ever been on. But for the majority, I'm awake. Gazing out over an endless ocean, the weight of reality begins to sink in. In a few hours, we'll be landing in India, a place I've never been before. And though I've been working on this case for months, this next step feels different. It's been five years and two months since Justin Alexander was last seen. If we're going to unravel this mystery, we will have to venture into the paths untaken. We'll have to face the same dangers that Justin did. Do you need anything else? Thank you. Have a good day.
8:16We emerge from the New Delhi terminal under a moonlit sky and are immediately hit with the heat and thick smog of the city. A type of air that sours my eyes and scrapes my lungs. Yes, sir. How you doing? Good. Yeah, perfect. Our driver, a weathered local, leads us to a beat-up minivan.
8:38As we navigate the foggy highways, colorful lights from street vendors' wagons pass by in a blur. They wave their wares at us, everything from exotic snacks and trinkets. The roadside is dotted with little fires. I watch as flames cast shadows over the faces of the homeless, the deletes. Wanderers and families alike, they huddled together and alone, curled up on the dirt ground.
9:08An hour passes. We arrive at our accommodations, somewhere in a neighborhood called Lodzpatnagar, and enter a four-story building squeezed in among countless others. I'm disoriented. I need to sleep. But I'm stressed about the days to come. You feeling rested? Yeah, ish. I don't think I can go back to sleep. It's 7.30 right now, so... with you. Day one. Day one.
9:48When I was stateside, I reached out to people in New Delhi to schedule interviews. Essentially, no one responded, except one guy. Kabir? Wonderful, pleasure to meet you. Kabir, how are you? Say hello to Kabir. Part guide, part enigma. Though his frame is small, Kabir's network is vast. People know that I was linked to the search for Bruno. Yeah. So people keep informing me, sometimes the cops, sometimes friends. He offered to help with our investigation, but anticipated in New Delhi and India in general, it'd be difficult to schedule interviews. We are pretty much used to people just coming in.
10:31We are used to such culture. So we start knocking on doors. Our first prospect is a detective company called PI Sleuths, a group that could help us track down individuals across the country. We drive to their address and step out into a street of chaos.
10:51Bicycle carts and three-wheeled buggies dash around corners. Motorcycles and mopeds, sometimes seated with three to four people, weave through throngs of pedestrians, wild dogs, and cows that roam the streets. And the scents, aromas of ginger and spice and dusty air, are inescapable. Did you talk to somebody here? No, we emailed them, but they never remember. I find an intercom for PI sleuths, and ring the call button. Yes, sir.
11:22But no one is available. I wish I could say it was our only hiccup of the day. But bad Good luck follows us throughout Delhi. Be it the embassy or an expert on India syndrome, everyone's too busy to talk. Managing to make one success, I do speak with the recipient of Justin's last-sent WhatsApp message. Yeah, this must be the auntie. Namaste. Auntie owns a motorcycle shop at the center of a swarming market. He gave me a call only on that time, and after that he never gave me any call. She confirms that she mailed the Royal Enfield motorcycle part, the starter, to the U.S. for Justin. While to me, it indicates he intended to return home, this is where Dele's trail goes cold.
12:10Not many answers here.
12:17With every rebuffed interview, my thoughts keep drifting back to the other disappearances in the Parvati Valley. Are there clues in their stories? Any parallels that might shed light on what happened to Justin? In particular, I think about the story that just broke, Jerov Agarwal. And it feels obvious, almost inevitable. We need to look into it.
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14:20The only people we're missing right now is the family of the missing persons case right now. That would be the only thing we want to do here for sure. You said the brother is up there right now. He's up there, but the rest of his family could be here. Yeah, we want to talk to his cousin. From a Times of India article, we know that Dharuv Agarwal, age 32, was from New Delhi and was last heard from on November 9th, about a week ago. The Times quotes Daruf's cousin, who said, He boarded a bus to Kasol on November 8th. He wanted to trek to Kyrganga. He made a WhatsApp video call on November 9th at 12.25pm.
15:01And he last checked his second WhatsApp account at 12.37pm. It's not much to go on. But Kabir came through with a potential lead. He's obtained the number for Daruf's brother. So, I came to know that you lost your brother a couple of days ago in Parvati. So, regarding I wanted to meet you if it was possible, are you in Delhi or you're in…
15:33Kabir asks the brother if he would be open to speaking with us. Did, he said he's not interested really in talking with us, huh? Not yet. He's not interested to talk to me also. He thinks his brother's still alive? Yes, he believes him. Did he say why he went up there? He had seen the trek on YouTube and he thought that he would make it alone. According to the brother, Daruq embarked on the Kirganga hike for exercise. But Kabir's heard other stories. There's been murmurs suggesting Daruq's family might be concealing his real reason for the trip. Furthermore, Kabir learned a significant detail that the Times of India failed to report.
16:15He made it to where? On the track? On the track, just beyond the dam there. Okay. And there's a camera there that they saw? Yeah, at the dam. Yeah, he crossed that. At the Kierganga trailhead, there is a dam. Supposedly, a newly installed CC camera caught footage of Daruva starting the hike alone. We ask if Daru's family hired a private investigator. But Kabir explains PIs in India tend to be contracted for other services, like tailing unfaithful spouses. The government doesn't give them leverage. They aren't hired for a missing persons business? No, not at all. Never that I've heard of in India.
16:56However, Daru's family has engaged a Parvati Valley search and rescuer. They were pointed s***. And he's not doing anything. He's just throwing in pictures. So he needs to be warned that they're paying for what the guy's needing. Kabir says they need to be warned what they're paying for. I'm not entirely sure what he means by that statement. So I ask him to clarify. by. This guy, he's been highlighted by the police, the department and all as a rescue guy. Yeah. You know, he parties around with the cops and everything. Yeah. And he charges a high amount for his search operation. We believe from our research and things that he could be the culprit, the people who are You think he's like robbing them and then taking the stuff?
17:59He's basically murdering them, I believe. After that, posing to look for the people. To get the money. Get the money, extract the money from the family or the embassy. Is that all speculation or do you have like... I don't have evidence. There's no evidence. You cannot say the speculations. You see, until today, whoever's been found there has only been found by him. What Kabir is saying is that this search guy might actually be murdering people in order to funnel more work into his business. It's a pretty heavy claim. And honestly, I'm not sure what to make of it. For obvious legal reasons, we'll give the search and rescuer an alias.
18:49We'll call him Korkhan. To my knowledge, he was never hired for Justin Alexander's case. Nevertheless, hearing these rumors, I'm getting anxious to get to the Parvati. So I looked to Kabir, seeking guidance. There was no point being here, you know. It's rather being there is much better for you. Okay. You're saying we should go earlier? Earlier, yeah. There's no point being in Delhi. We take Kabir's advice, and are on a flight to the mountains the next morning.
19:44Our aircraft to Kulu is a mid-sized twin prop plane. There are maybe less than 10 other passengers on board. As we lift off, we break through the smog, and the first rays of light peek over the horizon. It's not long before I catch a glimpse of snow-capped giants, the Himalayan mountains. Looming like gods, they're all at once majestic, fierce, and terrifying.
20:20Touching down on a small open runway, we step off the aircraft in complete awe.
20:28Wow. Wow. This is incredible. Holy shit. Shortly after, we are greeted by our driver and new guide, Kabir's nephew, Arshteeb. The breathing quality difference is just so insane. That's why I didn't go to Delhi. Yeah. But I want to wait that far. Arshteev operates a trekking and motorcycle expedition company. Like his uncle Kabir, he's from this district and has assisted with missing person cases. All these houses, beautiful color, blues, greens, and yellows. We're along the right side of the valley. Every hill is a collection of pine and oak that tower up towards the sky. Colored rooftops dot the colossal landscape, and all of it is covered by a blanket of misty clouds.
21:18Just living in some clouds today. We swing around a bend, and a soft rumble begins to grow. The river. Glistening like sapphire, its color is unlike anything I've ever seen. I'm genuinely surprised by how many houses and cafes and stuff are along the road. The buildings multiply, the blacktop shifts to cobblestone, and within minutes, we're inside a lively market. We've hit the heart of the district capital, Kulu, where an essential stop awaits. He's here. Yeah. He is here? Enclosed by a barbed wire gate, we enter the two-story, unassuming office of the superintendent of police.
22:14Hello. Hello. How's it going? How are you doing? Wonderful. From the looks we get, I can tell it's a rare sight. Foreigners at police headquarters, requesting an unscheduled chat with the superintendent. Much to my astonishment, he accepts a meeting with us, but only off mic. He's new here, just five months in, and Justin Alexander's case isn't on his radar. I provide him with the case number, and he promises to do what he can to search for information on the porter, Anil Kumar. Out of curiosity, I also ask what he knows about the search and rescuer, Kaur Khan. He states, matter-of-factly, that the man is a well-known figure in the Parvati, even lending a hand in police searches.
23:05I sense it's the extent of an opinion we'll hear from an officer of the law. But I want to know more. So after our meeting, we head to Arshteev's home for lentils and rice, and I casually bring up Korkhan's name.
23:22And so I was speaking with Kabir. What do you think about...
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23:33According to Kabir, it's a different thing. that he thinks that every person missed in the rally is found by most of the cases. So he thinks that he knows who's doing the things and who's the main culprit.
23:50But what do you think? What's your impression? See, I never had a conversation with this guy. Yeah. So I can't, because I never met him and never dealt with him. But I can't say things like that easily, you know. In contrast to his uncle Kabir, Archdeep's a bit more careful in his thinking. Not one to rush to judgments or conclusions. And that impartiality catches my attention. You see, before we left for India, the interrogations of Baba Rawat and Anil Kumar were translated and transcribed into English. Although we can read the words, we lack the cultural understanding to discern if how any of it is being said is suspicious.
24:36We needed a trustworthy local to help us decipher it. And I'm now thinking, Arshtiep could be that person.
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26:22This is the barber questioning. He's in the SP office, I think, so. that looks like an SP office. What are they talking about right now? He's just asking the questions about, like...
26:40The interrogation video of Babur Watt unfolds in an office much like the superintendents we were in earlier. It's shot on Jonathan Skeels' iPhone and shows Babur Watt, a thin man with a tangled beard and orange turban, standing before a desk, uncuffed. Seated around the room are Susie Reeb, a few police officers, and several Indian men in plain clothing. One of these men is Rohan, a local who translates for Susie and Skeels. But it's worth noting that at the time, this footage was not professionally translated. In full, the recording is 11 and a half minutes, But we've narrowed it down to these key points.
27:30Baba Ruat says Justin approached him in Kyrganga. I said, okay, you can learn yoga. Serve Baba, and then only you learn yoga. Sometime later, he told Justin that he needed to go to Mantelai Lake. He said, I will also go. I said, then come. Then he went with us. Who was there with you? Sir, I had taken a porter along. Baba Rawat says Justin managed his own gear, while the porter carried Baba's items. Their journey began from Kirganga on August 28th. They made overnight stops along the way and reached Mantelai on September 4th. Baba Rawat wanted to descend that same day, but Justin wanted to stay behind.
28:21That's when he says four Indian trekkers arrived. So I told them I don't know English. Tell Justin in English that go with Baba. Otherwise, if something happens to you, then Baba will get defamed.
28:37Baba Rawat recounts that he and the porter proceeded down the mountain and reached the resting stop of Pundapul by 5 p.m. Justin supposedly arrived later, around 8 p.m. We stayed for the night. Eight to ten more people who were going to Mantelai. They also had stopped there. No questions are asked about these eight to ten people. In the morning on 5th, Ras Takurkon sat a little and had some food. Smoked some chillam. And then I said to Porter, you go ahead, make some eggs and food and keep it ready. I will reach slowly by evening. So, Porter went ahead. Behind was Justin and after that me. And in between Thakar Kohn and Tunda Buj, where he stayed, he fell down or what happened, I don't know.
29:26Sir, I do not. Why didn't you report after he had not come? Justin is missing. I have come this side from Baidi Anath for the first time. Sir, I don't know much about this place. I ask Arsteep if he finds Baba Rawat's answers suspicious. See, that's... He is like, you know, carefree guys, these Babas. They don't bother. The people whom they meet, they're like gypsies for them. They come, they meet, they go. It will never come to his mind that I should report the police about him not arriving. That doesn't actually seem suspicious to you in any way, shape, or form. Because he met him accidentally, and he left, and then it's just like normal for him.
30:08For the full interrogation, Baba Rawat sticks to his story. Despite neglecting to report Justin is missing, he didn't run or hide. nor gave any indication that he intended to. All things considered, he doesn't sound as malicious as the role he's been cast in. Put him inside. Arrest him. Take him out. Call the second one.
30:44After Baba Rawat, the porter Anil Kumar is immediately summoned for interrogation, but it's not recorded. Only on October 26th, five days after Baba Rawat's death, is Anil questioned again, and it's caught on tape. This time, it's a different office. Different police officer. Anil Kumar, who looks to be 20-something, clutches a red beanie and shifts his weight anxiously. The recording lasts an hour and 12 minutes. But again, we've distilled it down to these key points.
31:28Anil says the trek began on August 28th. He too describes reaching Mantulai on the 4th and how Justin wanted to stay behind, but ended up meeting them later that night at Pundapul. The following day, Anil says they continued down the mountain and reached the rest stop of Taku Kuan by 12.30. We had Prashad and they had Chilam. Then Baba told me to make food at Thanda Bhuj. What did Justin say? Justin didn't say anything. He used to agree to whatever Baba said. Okay. So I picked up all the ration and other things, and I came straight to Thundabhuj. This portion of the hike takes about four to five hours for Anil, who reaches Thundabhuj around 5 p.m.
32:15He says Baba Rawat arrived an hour later. After coming, Baba asked me directly that Justin is not seen. I said, Baba, he was with you. I left him with you. He said, okay, must be here or there clicking some photos. Then? Then after some time, he sent me to look for him. Some people were coming. I asked them, did you see some foreigner? They said they had not seen. Why didn't you tell the police after that? I told Baba if he doesn't come in two, three days, then we should make a police complaint. Baba said, okay, he will come. Susie Reeb then intervenes, posing a question to the officers. One of the stories say that Justin and the porter had a fight or an argument and somebody got hurt.
33:09That was one of the very first stories that we heard. We heard about a fight from the hiker Nirmal Patel. But according to him, the argument was between Justin and the Baba, not Anil Kumar. Because that's what the Baba said, and I'd like to know. What they want to ask is that between you and Justin there was a fight and Baba has given his statement. No sir, nothing like that has happened. Nothing with me. Then what happened in this? Someone was hurt a little or was injured badly? No, no, no. Nothing of this sort has happened. There was no meaning of a fight. We went together and came back together.
33:49Did any fight take place in front of you? No, absolutely nothing. What do I have to do with fight? Okay, he is denying this thing. He is denying. There was no fight between him and yourself, according to him. That day, they left Thakur Khoan for Tundabush. Yes. Was anyone else on the trail? Did he see anyone else? There was a local party there. How many people were there? There were five to six people. He's saying that there were five to six local people. Okay. at Thakur Kua. Does he know these people? These five people? Do you know any one of those people? No, sir. They were all locals and I'm also new here, so I don't know them.
34:39They continue to press Anil for a reason why neither he nor the Baba ever filed a missing person report. Sir, that Baba told me that he will come in one or two days. I said, all right. Then I got busy with other work.
34:59Anil circles back to the same points, that Justin was Baba's student and that Baba assumed Justin wandered off with other travelers. But here's where things get weird. The cops demand Anil Kumar to speculate what happened.
35:18What do you feel happened to him? Tell us that. Like, I feel that either you people have done something to him or Baba has done something to him. What do you feel? What do I feel, sir? I don't know. Either you have killed or Baba has killed. One of you have done something. Did something like this happen? No, sir. I had gone ahead. He would have come behind you. Baba was fragile. There are two people more were sitting. I moved ahead. I had to make food. If you will tell the truth, then only you will be released. Don't worry, nobody will hit you. Whatever I knew, I told you sir. I don't know anything as I came ahead.
36:00Has this Baba done anything like this before? Has somebody else gone missing like this with him? I don't know sir. I just met him in Keer Ganga. What do you think happened to Justin? I'm still asking you. I don't know sir. I can't tell where he is and what happened. He's saying that he's having no idea about Justin. So what I want to say to him is this. If he's had nothing to do with my son's disappearance, I apologize that he is going through the interrogation. However, if he's withholding something, it will be his karma. And I'm sorry for him. Can we say that? Take so many baths. Listen to me.
36:45If you're telling the truth, then they are saying that we are feeling bad, that you are in custody of police at this time. But if not, then they'll also do everything possible to make sure you get punished. But I'm telling the truth, whatever it was, I'm not telling lies. I'm telling the truth. An innocent man would do everything he can to find out the truth. Why is this man such a coward? At least an opinion. An innocent man would be remorseful, would say to Susie, he would say, I'm sorry that your son is missing. I had nothing to do with it. But this man can't stand there and even look at her.
37:25Tell him he looks guilty. To me, he looks guilty. Skeels and Susie's frustration boils over. And the police? They just stand there. What should I say? If you have not done anything, then you could have told them that I have not done anything. He's a coward for not going back. He's a coward for not telling the truth Tell him If he was telling the truth, he would have remorse Please tell him he's a coward Did you feel sorry for them? Have you apologized that I was with him and during this visit he got disappeared? But I don't have an idea about this I have no fault in this Did you say this? To them?
38:08No, I have not said anything to them Do you want to say anything to them? She is his mother You want to tell something to them? Sir, I have not done anything. I have not seen also. I have stopped anger also. I don't know anything about previous things.
38:29And that's it. The video ends. Watching these interrogations, they feel fumbled. The situation is a delicate one, as I feel for Susie and Skeels, who are just craving progress. Yet, having them practically lead the interrogations seems like gross misconduct. Their assertive approach leaves me with the impression that it steered the investigation, most likely without them even realizing it. Delving into case specifics, these recordings revealed that before Justin went missing, he passed at least three groups on his descent. And from my knowledge, law enforcement never approached any of them. I'm lost in thought about all these neglected leads when I notice Arshtief steps outside to take a call.
39:23When he returns, he says he's put out an interview request to a group who can provide some more answers. A little eager, I ask if it's possible to have them come by that very evening. How's it going? That's fine. That's Liam. Liam? We pull together chairs in a cold, rustic dining hall and flick on a single space heater. Manu? Very nice to meet you. We meet Manu and Jagdish, two rugged men that run one of the few search and rescue companies here in the valley. Manu carries most of the conversation, as Jagdish speaks a little English. I'm from Manali myself, and I'm running an adventure company, and we are a Himalayan rescue team.
40:06We handle lots of search operations, rescue, technical rescue, underwater rescue. Manu walks me through the numerous cases he's been involved in. Among them, Justin's. When did you first hear about Justin's disappearance? The administration approached us to do that. I'm sorry, who did you say? With the administration, like police approached us. Okay. Basically, that time we thought it's just a recovery case. Like we have to go there and pick the body or the person. So police approach us and they tell that he was missing near Tundabhuj. And we go there and search with the police team. And we take around 12 days there.
40:51Manu and Jagdesh briefly switched to Hindi. And Arsteep translates in unusual detail about the search. The police guys, they sent this porter with them for the last search and rescue, you know. So during that, this porter started clarifying a few things. We know the porter, Anil Kumar, assisted a search team at some point in the investigation. But we didn't know who. In light of the news that it was Manu and Jagdish, I ask what exactly the porter started to clarify. At that time, this thing will be in knowledge. and when the porter says, he told that both person goes in front of him, and third was the porter.
41:34Fourth and fifth was Justin and Baba.
41:40I pause, trying to process the words Manu just said. He says the porter, Anil Kumar, told them that the group coming down the mountain with Justin was not a total of three, But five. Did the porter, did Anil, say that they were all together? Yeah, that's what he's saying. So the two other people that you're referring to right now that were with them, do you know their names? No, no, no. Nobody knows. If true, this means moments before Justin vanished, he left with the Baba and these two individuals. Allegedly, Anil Kumar does not know who started down the mountain after him. But claims what happened next was strange.
42:27After maybe an hour or so, this couple crossed Anil Kumar because he was carrying a luggage with him, quite a heavy one. The first were the couples to arrive at Tundabhuj. And the day Justin was lost, this couple, they didn't stay in Tundabhuj. They came straight to Kheerganga. And they never came forward to talk to the police. They didn't do anything. This couple breezed past Anil. They did not stop. nor make any mention of the Baba or Justin. They just continued on, silent and alone. So who are they? And what do they know?
43:10Coming up on Status Untraced. I find it tough to believe, actually. There's something more to the story which they're hiding. And trust me, there are plenty of Babas that are corrupt and Sadhus are trying to rip you off. They believe that there was some, you know, sort of backstab by the police. During that time, a lot of people got killed and it was definitely the same group of people. I mean, from that, the whole story, do you feel suspicious at all about the guy and the girl or just the Baba? Yeah, the same thing all three had done.
43:51If you have tips or information on the individuals in this podcast, please email us at statusuntraced at gmail.com or leave us a message at 507-407-2833. Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxon. Executive producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Producers are Meredith Stedman and myself. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Consulting producer, Jonathan Skeels. Associate editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of GetUp Productions, with additional editing by Sydney Evans. Artwork by Trevor Eiler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.
44:40Our theme song is Colder Heavens by Blanco White. Mix by Cooper Skinner. Voice acting provided by Omer Walla, Samir Goel Koshal Patel and Panaki Kar Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group And also special thanks to Arsteep Sharma and Kabir Sharman to Samir at India Someday who juggled all of our endless last minute itinerary switch-ups and to Neha Bharara For maps and exclusive photos related to the podcast find us on Instagram at statusuntraced For more podcasts like Status Untraced, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app. Or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.
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From the publisher
Follow the story of Justin Alexander's mysterious disappearance in "Status: Untraced". From the team that brought you Up and Vanished, this is Episode 6 - 'He Looks Guilty'.
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