Status: Untraced - E7: Together to Tunda Bhuj

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0:55But don't wait, these year-end savings won't last. Shop the entire Toyota lineup and find a great deal today on buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. Welcome to Radio Rental. The scariest stories you've ever heard in your life. All told by real people. And off we go. This wasn't a human being that I saw. There's something here in this house. Something out of this world. There was a woman moving through the hall. I stepped back and I was completely alone. Radio Rental is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Enjoy this episode of Status Untraced.

1:41Here is episode seven. You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

2:10So the two other people that you're referring to right now that were with them, do you know their names? No, no, no. Nobody knows. Mid-October 2016, Mountaineers Manu and Jagdish were charged with the task of searching for Justin Alexander in order to bring the porter, Anil Kumar, with their team. During this search, Anil Kumar opened up, allegedly revealing a detail that no one's mentioned before. That at the last resting spot, he was with Justin, the Baba, and a couple. Anil, who began his descent down the mountain first, couldn't confirm who followed, but claimed that this couple eventually caught up with him.

2:57After maybe an hour or so, this couple crossed Anil Kumar because he was carrying a luggage with him, quite a heavy one. The first were the couples to arrive at Tundabhuj. And the day Justin was lost, this couple, they didn't stay in Tundabhuj. They came straight to Kheer Ganga. And they never came forward to talk to the police themselves? They didn't do anything. Like when they watch us walking around in Kierganga camp, next day they went from there. So you saw them there, but you didn't realize that they were involved? Yes, yes, our team saw them. Manu is saying his team saw these two individuals at Kierganga.

3:33I try to gather every detail possible to attempt to identify who this couple might be. When Jagdish, his English a bit choppy, mentions them in relation to the last photo. That phrase piques my curiosity, and I quickly pull up a Facebook profile on my phone. When I show Jagdish, his eyes widen. He jabs his finger at my screen. He stutters, that's the guy. That guy in the photo? Yes. His photo with him at Thakarko. That photo with him there? Yeah. Maybe it's possible that they don't want to be getting to this matter. I turned to Alex, showing him the photo of the individual they say hiked alongside Justin.

4:21The guy in the photo, there's the last photo where Justin's like wrapped up with Nirmal. It's Nirmal Patel, the man in the last photo with Justin. The thing is, I spoke with Nirmal nearly a week ago. and he gave a different story.

5:09Once I saw the killer, once I saw the killer up close. I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced. Episode 7, Together to Tundebush.

5:37The last known photo of Justin Alexander was taken along the Pin Parvati hiking trail, the path to Montalai Lake. The photo is of Justin, wrapped in a shawl, and Indian hiker, Nirmal Patel, who crossed paths with him. Now, contrary to our previous understanding, I'm being told Nirmal and Justin didn't cross paths, but instead hiked down the mountain together. So these guys, these two additional people, you're saying, do we know what the guy looked like or what Nash? Nirmal, right there. This girl and this Nirmal, they were together in Kyrgyzonga. They met Justin and then decided going back together.

6:21Only Nirmal and the girl, not Justin. No, Justin was all three together. All three together. This tip is a game changer. These are two new faces who were allegedly present in the same area and at the same time as Justin's disappearance. Who are they? Nirmal and a girl? What do they know? And why have we never heard about them before? Although, as I look back at the interrogation of the porter, I realize we have. There are two people more were sitting. I moved ahead. I had to make food. The mention of these two people was never questioned by police or brought up again. Like the officers in the room, it slipped by our attention.

7:11Did you guys end up speaking with them all? No. No? Okay. Do they know if Nirmal was ever seen in the area like a week after? He was never seen. See, if the police is not concerned anymore, police is not searching anymore, so even if he comes after a year, no one bothers. The reason I'm having trouble following this is because I spoke to Nirmal about a week ago, and he said, one, he wasn't with them. He started later on the trek, and he went with other people. No. but they went all together, together to Tunda Wuj.

7:53If Nirmal was hiking with Justin, then that means his story about crossing paths is a lie. I'm finding it hard to believe. Nirmal uploaded the photo with Justin, and he interviewed with us. Why would he do that if he had something to hide? I mean, from that, the whole story, Do you feel suspicious at all about the guy and the girl or just the Baba? Yeah, the same thing all three had done. Like Baba has also run away from the complaint and both guys also didn't do any complaint. Let's back up for a second. Was there anyone else who mentioned a couple or that two people went with Justin to Tundabuj?

8:37Friends which running a restaurant in Kierganga. I'm told Kierganga is best envisioned as a campground, nestled high in the Himalayas. A kind of place so remote, the air feels different. But it's not entirely a no-man's land. There are large tents serving as cafes and restaurants. And allegedly, one of the restaurant owners noticed a couple lurking around for a month and claimed their behavior grew suspicious. They ran short of money and everything, so they got in touch with Justin. So they started using Justin's money or whatever, or they started surviving on Justin, you know, they're having chillums and smoke and everything together.

9:18Okay. And did you guys ever tell Susie that there are these two other people? Susie and Jonathan, the mother, and the friend from New Zealand, Longhair. No, we told to police.

9:34When we was returned from the rescue, that time we told to police that these guys are saying that they are together. So please catch them and ask them if they have any clue about that. But they didn't find extra. Police didn't catch them. They believe that there was some, you know, sort of backstab by the police. They should have at least immediately caught the guy and the girl. Because as per the statement of the food people, they were together. You guys saw what the girl looked like, right? No one saw that. No one ever, no one saw the girl at all? only the restaurant person. I'm now feeling a bit lost.

10:14One moment, Manu was telling me the whole team saw this couple at Kyrganga. The next, he's saying it was just the restaurant owner who spotted them. There seems to be some sort of miscommunication. So to unravel it, I ask Manu and Jagdish to confirm the details again. And here's what I gather. Anil Kumar, the porter, is that a couple joined him, the Baba, and Justin at some point on the trek. While descending the mountain, this couple overtook Anil, and he did not see them when he arrived at Tundebush. In fact, he never saw them again. According to Manu and Jagdish, Anil identified Nirmal Patel as part of this couple.

11:00The only other person they spoke with who claimed to see a couple was a restaurant owner in Kyrganga. It's not confirmed if it's the same couple from Anil Kumar's story. Manu and Jagdish reported these statements to the police, but the couple was never caught or seen in the area again.

11:22You remember how, like, earlier I said, the more that you find out feels like the less I know? This is one of those times. I'm so confused because I feel like everything that I started to think was going on. See, these are the guys. who actually talked to the porter. He's not telling somebody else's story. He's telling the conversation with the Anil Kumar. So why would he lie? He won't be lying to us for anything. This is a meaningful point. What reason do Manu and Jagdish have to lie? They don't seem like the type to spin wild tales for kicks. But we can't just take their word for it. We need to know if this tale about a couple, and specifically Nirmal Patel, can be corroborated.

12:06Do you recognize him? No. No. Just for the hell of it, you don't recognize him either. Middle? No, no, no. Who is he? He was one of the guys that was also supposed to go on the trek with Nirmal. And it looks like he and Nirmal did do a hike over Montalai that year for sure. On Nirmal Patel's Facebook, he uploaded a group photo from a trek to Montalai. So is this the group who cross paths with Justin? If we can talk to the other hikers, we can figure it out. Lucky for us, some of them in the photo are tagged. So we send out friend requests, hoping they can clear up this mystery. But that's not all we're after.

12:54We need to head to Kyrganga, where the elusive restaurant owner might be. They believe that maybe the guy who actually saw that couple with Justin, they might be still there, but they're not sure about that because they don't have their number or anything. And just when we thought they'd given us everything, Manu and Jagdish drop another lead. A connection to someone who's imperative to the case. The other guy whom we should meet is Falubhai. He was in regular touch with the Baba. And when Baba committed suicide, he was there. Because he seen the Baba even hanging. It's NBA tip-off week and FanDuel is your home for live betting.

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15:01Deals. Getting the move on now. The next morning, our bags packed, we moved deeper into the valley. Overnight, I took the opportunity to revisit my phone call with Nirmal Patel. And something stands out that I previously missed. Before jumping to conclusions, I consult Archdeep to make sure I'm not misinterpreting what could be Indian slang. In that conversation, he goes, Well, there was a couple of weird things. One, I was like, yeah, he seemed like a pretty humble guy. He was like, yeah, yeah, very humble guy. He's like, yeah, we never got into any arguments. We were good friends. We were good friends.

15:41We were good friends. It means they were close. It means they were spending some time together. That's why I'm going to say, okay, now we are spending together. So I'm going to say, oh, Liam and I are good friends. Yeah. But would you say, oh, yeah, no, Liam and I didn't get into any arguments? No, I wouldn't say that. Why would I say that? That's it? Exactly. Unless you ask me about it. Yeah, exactly. If you ask me, only then I'll reply that answer. We never went into any arguments. Why would Nirmal Patel say that? Yeah, I was quite humble. Yeah, we never went through any argument or stuff like that.

16:14We were good friends. Is he covering his tracks? Or am I reading too deeply into this conversation? I hold the thought as we finally, for the first time, enter into the mouth of the Parvati Valley. Rockies, it looks like the Rockies. We climb higher and higher, the mountains towering on one side, and a sheer cliff face on the other, plunging 200 yards below to the river's swirling rapids. Stones and everything inside, if someone gets into the river, he just dies due… Power. Yeah, power, yeah. The road we're on is really only wide enough for a single car, but vehicles will whiz by from both directions.

16:59The drive alone is liberating, as if we're leaving civilization behind. As we're driving in towards the end of the valley, which is where I've been told Mantlai Lake lays, it does feel mystical. There's definitely something mystical about this place. Legend is, the Hindu god Shiva meditated in these mountains for 3 ,000 years. When he opened his eyes, he was spellbound by its untouched beauty, and named it after his wife, Parvati. An hour later, we pull into the valley's main base, Kasol. It feels like a hippie place. Yeah? Yeah, it feels like spring break at Yosemite. Yeah. Kasol is buzzing with energy.

17:50Packed with a mix of carefree backpackers and spirited locals, there's a dash of everything here. Street vendors touting hot dumplings and chai. Tiny shops brimming with handmade wool sweaters and winter jackets. And enticing scents drifting from open-door hookah bars. Justin knew this place like the back of his hand. And if he's still out there, this is one of the places he might be.

18:21Stepping out to explore Casol's market, my eyes are immediately drawn to the flyers, which are plastered on walls everywhere. Neon ads for rave parties. And next to them, missing person posters. You know, here's the thing. If Justin's in the area, still, he's gonna stand out. Yeah. People are gonna recognize him. Do you think we should ask a couple random people and just be like, hey, have you seen this guy at all in the last... I'm caught off guard when a scruffy Caucasian man saunters past us. First one we've seen since landing in Kulu. A hood over his head, slipping through the crowd, he evades interaction.

19:17I scramble to take a closer look, and when he glances over, I see his face. It's not Justin. Because I assume that he's like a father, he's like... Overstayed his visa. Overstayed his visa or something. An outsider, who's made himself a local. How many more are there? I carry the thought as we prepare for our interview with Palu. The man we're told actually saw Baba Rawat hanging.

19:57To me, Hinduism is not an organized religion. I call it a disorganized, decentralized religion. However, this is not that interview. Actually, the tape I'm going to play for you now wasn't even recorded in India. It's an interview I conducted two months prior to our trip at the University of Southern California. Why am I taking you back in time? Simple. To understand the gravity of the questions I'm about to ask Palu, this information is critical to grasp. There is no common God. There is no common sacred text like a Bible. or Quran. There's no common ritual, no common origin story, no common congregational song.

20:43I sought out the guidance of Dr. Varun Soni, the Dean of Religious Studies at USC, for his knowledge of Babas, their beliefs, their devotions, and their place in Indian society. Seated outside on campus, Dr. Soni explained, it all links back to India's most practiced religion. That being said, there is a common belief now that Hindus believe that we have a soul. That soul is reincarnated over many lifetimes. And the goal of Hindu life is for that soul to no longer be reincarnated, to achieve what we call moksha or liberation from the cycle of rebirth. And most practicing Hindus renounce the world at the end of their life.

21:26Yes. In traditional Hinduism, there's four stages of life. The first stage is celibate student. So for the first 25 years of your life, brahmachari, you're just focused on developing the skills you need to be in the world. Get your degree, get your education, etc. The next stage, which is the longest stage, is grahasta, which is householder. This is when I'm fully in the world. I have a spouse, I have a kid, I make my money, I give back to my community. The third stage is vana prastha, which is forest dweller. This is kind of one step out of the house. I'm meditating, but I'm still kind of at home.

22:02And the last stage at the end of your life, sannyas, is full renunciation. That's when I give up my family. I give up my material possessions. I spend my time going from holy festival to holy city. And the idea there is that by renouncing all that, the thing that took me decades to get, it will ensure that my soul won't have the impulse to come back. Here's the deal with Babas. They decide to skip the steps and jump to Hinduism's final stage. They relinquish ties to everything, including possessions, money, and even family, to emulate the revered deity, Shiva. They're not attached to any particular thing.

22:44They're focused on transcending their own physical desires. That means they might fast, they might not have sex, they might stand on one leg for a month. They might wear a loincloth in the snow. They want to be the master of their senses, of their realms. It's this unfettered lifestyle that often entrances curious outsiders, for better or worse, to become involved with Babas. So I think people feel as though India is like its own planet. But the problem with thinking that is that you can then essentialize it as something other. And that also means that if you're exotifying it, you might not think that the Baba is crooked.

23:24You might not think that the Sadhu is trying to rip you off. And trust me, there are plenty of Babas that are corrupt and Sadhus who are trying to rip you off. So if I'm coming with this otherization, I don't see people for who they are, good or bad. I have a blind spot then. We've heard all sorts of things about Baba Rawat. A con man, drug addict, murderer. But what if he was the real deal? I laid out Justin's case to Dr. Varun Soni to get his take. So in India, the idea of a guru is the idea of a teacher. If you want to get better at meditation or spiritual practice, you have to have a guru.

24:08And so the idea that a Baba would take interest in someone, hey, this foreigner's been in a cave for three weeks, they must be a real, legitimate spiritual seeker, and hey, I'm going to go to this lake anyway and I can bring him along. That to me seems like it could be totally viable. It's not like he tried to take him to his cousin's jewelry shop. He's not a tout. He was also in a cave, wasn't looking for him perhaps. Their paths crossed in a kind of unexpected way and maybe neither of them planned it, but knowing what little I know from Justin, it seems like he would be excited about this possibility.

24:44For Hindus, there's a core principle, ahimsa, a mandate of nonviolence towards all living beings, including oneself. Meaning murder, suicide, that would compromise one's spiritual journey. So if we consider Baburawat was devout, then we also have to ask, what killed him? As we know, his hanging happened three days shy of his release. Coincidence? Maybe. But the more we dig into it, the shadier it gets. Mumbai News threw a spotlight on the police's handling of the custodial death as unprofessional. The police violated protocols by not calling in a local doctor to declare Baba Rawat dead. Instead, they drove Rawat's body to a district hospital 16 kilometers away.

25:44The autopsy wasn't performed until the next day by two doctors who weren't forensic experts and who didn't even visit the crime scene. In regards to the claim that Rawat had removed his own genitals, we later learned this from Jonathan Skeels. No, and the autopsy showed that he hit a penis. Okay, yeah. And he either told Justin that or Justin played it out first, you know. Like Justin wasn't short of insightful commentary. As for the loan officer who discovered Baba Rawat, he was quietly suspended and then just seemingly disappeared. While all of it's unsettling, there's one thing Dr. Soni told me that, if found true, would entirely change our understanding of Justin's case.

26:36So, India has the highest rates of custodial death in the world. That means that it has the highest rate of people who die while in police custody, before they're charged with anything. India has a well-deserved reputation of going straight to torture as a means of interrogation. And there's a lot of work being done in terms of reforming that. But if someone dies in custody in India, I think most people assume they were killed by the police. Many assume Babur Awat took his own life due to an overwhelming sense of guilt, that he did something to harm Justin. But if we find evidence that Babur Awat was murdered, then this story takes on a whole new dimension.