In short
Wall Street Week - Episode Summary
Episode Title
America’s Most Charitable Places, McLaren’s Zak Brown
Host
David Weston
Episode Overview This episode discusses significant global economic developments, focusing on Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia's promise of $1 trillion investment in the U.S., the philanthropy landscape in America, and insights from Zak Brown, CEO of McLaren Racing, regarding leadership and organizational culture.
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Key Topics Discussed
- Saudi Arabia's Investment Strategy
- Crown Prince's Visit: Mohammed bin Salman visits the White House, marking a potential shift for Saudi Arabia from being a capital source to becoming an attractive destination for Western investment.
- Vision 2030: Saudi Arabia's initiative to diversify its economy away from oil dependency. In 2023, the non-oil sector contributed 55% to GDP.
- Infrastructure Development: Plans to establish data centers and become a leader in AI and e-gaming, leveraging low-cost energy and a young workforce.
Key Points
- Saudi Arabia aims to be an AI hub and e-sports capital.
- Foreign investment is encouraged, though certain restrictions remain.
- Companies like Tesla have started operations in the Kingdom.
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- Philanthropy in America
- Charitable Contributions: The episode highlights the hidden generosity in America, focusing on communities in Arkansas and Michigan that excel in volunteerism and charitable giving.
Insights
- Belding, Michigan: Recognized as a community with a high percentage of volunteer group membership (56% compared to the national average of 7%).
- Northwest Arkansas: Reports show an average charitable deduction of 15% of income, significantly above national averages.
Community Engagement
- Faith and community ties play a pivotal role in driving generosity.
- Local businesses contribute to a culture of philanthropy and support.
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- Zak Brown on Leadership and Culture
- Career Journey: Zak Brown shares his unconventional path from a rebellious youth in California to CEO of McLaren Racing.
- Leadership Philosophy: Emphasizes the importance of a positive organizational culture, encouraging open communication and collaboration among team members.
Key Leadership Insights
- Fear of failure drives motivation and excellence.
- Collaboration and challenging ideas are vital for team success.
- The role of adaptation in leadership, learning from both successes and failures.
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- U.S. Power Grid Strains
- The episode touches on the increasing demand for electricity driven by AI and data center growth, and the implications for energy policy.
- It discusses the dichotomy between fossil fuels and green energy, exploring how both might be necessary to meet growing demands.
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- Conclusion and Significance
- The episode illustrates how local communities in the U.S. can significantly impact philanthropy and volunteerism.
- It showcases the potential of global investment opportunities in Saudi Arabia and the importance of leadership in business, as exemplified by Zak Brown's journey with McLaren.
- A nuanced view of energy policy highlights the complexities surrounding the future of energy in America.
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Key Takeaways
- Investment Opportunities: The shifting landscape of Saudi investment is significant for U.S. economic policy.
- Philanthropic Culture: Community involvement and personal commitment to giving are essential in shaping local economies and support structures.
- Leadership and Culture: Effective leadership relies on fostering an environment of trust, collaboration, and continuous improvement.
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For more insights on these topics, tune in to the full episode of Wall Street Week.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Goldman Sachs' 2026 outlooks examine the trend shaping the global economy. From global growth and regional perspectives to deep dives into asset classes and portfolio allocation. Listen to Exchanges Outlook 2026 from Goldman Sachs. Hello, I'm Stephen Carroll. I'm in Brussels, where many of Europe's biggest decisions get made. And I'm Caroline Hepker in London. We're the hosts of the Bloomberg Daybreak Europe podcast. We're up early every weekday, keeping an eye on what's happening across Europe and around the world. We do it early so the news is fresh, not recycled, and so you know what actually matters as the day gets going.
0:36From Brussels, I'm following the politics, policy and the people shaping the European Union right now. And from London, I'm looking at what all that means for markets, money and the wider economy. We've got reporters across Europe and around the globe feeding in as stories break. So whether it's geopolitics, energy, tech or markets, you're hearing it while it happens. It's smart, calm and to the point. And it fits into your morning. You can find new episodes of the Bloomberg Daybreak Europe podcast by 7am in Dublin or 8am in Brussels, Berlin and Paris. On Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:35This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston bringing you stories of capitalism. Last summer, we took you to Jackson Hole, the wealthiest place in the country. Now we head east to Arkansas and Michigan to see what drives the most charitable counties in the U.S. President Trump came to office promoting a swing away from green energy. But given the exploding energy demand from those AI data centers has all of the above, won what was a battle between fossil fuels and renewables. As the Formula One season draws to a close, we spend time with the man who has already won. Zac Brown brings us the remarkable story of his personal journey from rebellious high schooler in California to the pinnacle of auto racing as head of McLaren Racing.
2:20But we start with the big visit this week of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to the White House, a symbol of a potential shift for investors from looking to the kingdom as a source of capital to a destination for Western investment. Deborah Lair of Baselina has been working on the transition. So, Deborah, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, came to Washington this week. As far as you know, what was his agenda? Well, just the arrival and the welcoming ceremony already has been a great success for the crown prince to be welcomed in an unprecedented way to the White House with this military band, military on horseback, escorting him into the White House in the flyover.
3:09The president personally walking him through already shows both the respect that the president has for him and the partnership that the United States is demonstrating with the kingdom. Under Vision 2030, the crown prince has put a priority on diversifying the economy. This year, for the first time ever, 55 % of GDP actually comes from the non-oil sector. So as they look to attract data centers, for example, they just don't want to be host to them. They want to build out a whole infrastructure around data centers to be an electricity and cheap energy supplier to building out the whole AI network, to attracting AI networks, to being the world's leader in e-games.
3:56One of the benefits that Saudi Arabia has is, obviously, it's one of the largest countries in the Middle East, and so they can provide space for manufacturing data centers to provide that technology. There's low-cost energy for building up the AI infrastructure, so they've been in discussions to build out their own AI infrastructure. They have their own domestic champions that they're building out, like Humane. But also they're looking to be the e-sports and e-gaming capital of the world. And so they spent a lot building out that infrastructure, in part because they have such a young population.
4:32But also it's an opportunity for them to show their own technological capabilities. Saudi Arabia is a wealthy country. At the same time, maybe not quite as wealthy as it was before because the price of oil is somewhat suppressed. That's where it gets a lot of its revenue for them. Does it have to cut back at all on its investment ambitions, given where its fiscal situation is? Well, that's an excellent point. And clearly, their revenues are still highly dependent on the price of oil. And we have seen a cutback in recent years on some of the mega projects. So we've seen that in the case of Neom, where they've cut back on the grand ambitions and slimmed down the project, but also then focused in on other things like the Saudi Expo, where they are putting a lot of money and capital into that project.
5:21I think they're also being smarter about how they're spending their money. Originally, they brought in a lot of outside consultants and spent millions and millions of dollars on plans and strategies and ideas of how to build or how to make these mega projects successful. They're not so dependent on those outside consultants anymore. where we've seen really a move to much more specialty insights that they're seeking from outside experts and taking a lot on themselves. The Crown Prince, as you say, set out a very ambitious agenda for 2030. Do they have enough of a track record yet to know whether they're on track for where they need to get to?
5:59So Vision 2030 was a very ambitious all-of-nation plan, one of the most ambitious transformations in the world, and it was a very aggressive timeline. When we look at some of the indicators, for example, attracting foreign investment, what they've had to do is transform their regulatory structure. That, even though it is moving forward, they've been able to streamline a lot of the regulations. They've opened up sectors to 100 % ownership by foreign firms. It's not one-sided. Western investors are responding to the friendlier tone and are at least dipping their toes into the kingdom. In the past year, tech companies like Tesla and Scale AI have moved operations and offices there.
6:46Stephen Cook of the Council on Foreign Relations says Saudi Arabia is opening up with some limits. Saudi Arabia is now open for business. Of course, there are restrictions. This is Saudi Arabia, after all. But the Saudis are interested in bringing the world to Saudi Arabia. They look at its location. They see it as an important center for culture, sports, tourism, technology and logistics. I think the Saudis are kind of opening the door to all of these companies who have expressed a tremendous amount of interest in coming to Saudi Arabia. But there is issues related to kind of, from what I understand, related to what the Treasury Department and what the Commerce Department will allow a company like Google or Apple to do in a place like Saudi Arabia.
7:38What about countries other than the United States as possible investors? You're seeing, for example, from Europe. Yeah, you're seeing general interest in the quote unquote new Saudi Arabia. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, his mantra has been to make Saudi Arabia a normal country. Now, he is not a Democrat. He's not a liberal. This is all top-down reform. But I think what he sees is most Saudis are 18 to 50 years old. And if you're going to make your country prosperous and you're going to want to have that cohort staying there and making their lives there. And so he's been inviting investment from all over the world into the kingdom so that people can work and live and enjoy their lives like they would if they were in the United States or Europe.
8:29One of the areas of potential investment is real estate, commercial and residential. What is the level of investment in real estate right now going on in Riyadh, in Jeddah? Well, I mean, the only way to really answer this, David, is to say that the most oft-sighted bird in Saudi Arabia, especially in those two cities, is the construction crane. I mean, I don't think there are enough construction cranes in Saudi Arabia to satisfy all the building that is going on. They've had to bring them in from other places. In terms of real estate, who's doing the investing in all this construction with all these cranes you talk about?
9:04Where's that money coming from? Well, a lot of this is driven by the government. But they've encouraged private firms to engage in the development of cities and so on and so forth. So there are authorities that the government has established that have partnered with private firms in terms of the development in Jinda, of the old city and the development of hotels there and tourist attractions there. But a lot of this is top-down driven by the government. But there is private money coming in. We've heard about Trump developments in both Jidda and Riyadh. Adam Neumann has a flow project in Riyadh as well.
9:44That's private money going in. And do they partner with Saudi entities? How does that work? Well, yeah. So there has been a recent change in how foreigners can invest in real estate. It's in certain areas. And it has to be in partnership with a Saudi entity. But it is less restrictive than it was, where previously it was much, much harder for foreigners to invest in real estate in Saudi Arabia. Right now, AI is all the rage, right? In the United States and elsewhere. There's a lot of concern about maybe a bubble, over-investing in AI. Is there a danger of over-investing in, for example, real estate in Saudi Arabia?
10:26Absolutely. I mean, I think that that's certainly the case. Again, there is a build it and they will come aspect to what they're doing. The Saudis, when you press them on this, will say that they've done the hard work and know that there's demand for all of this. But if you just look at the scale of the projects that they're doing, they're not even called mega projects. They're giga projects. They're enormous, trillion dollar bet on a country. You have to wonder whether the demand and supply will come together on this. And again, we've seen this before where the Saudis have, you know, had this grand vision for new cities and so on and so forth.
11:09And they've never come to fruition. Look, Neom, which is something that the Crown Prince has talked a lot about, in many ways it's his baby. They've had to scale that back over and over and over again. Part of it is engineering and the idea that, you know, what he envisions is extremely difficult to do. But at the other end of it is just putting a city down in a place where one didn't exist before. Not only has engineering challenges, but you have to wonder if there wasn't a city there before, why would there need to be a city there now? So it's those kinds of flights of fancy that I think people need to be worried about when it comes to Saudi Arabia.
11:47Coming up, we hear a lot about economic inequality in the United States, but not nearly as much about how much wealth and time is given away each year. As we head into this Thanksgiving holiday in the U.S., we'll go to the two most charitable places in the nation, Northwest Arkansas and Western Michigan.
12:17What's driving the markets this week? What's on investors' minds as they look ahead? Find out on the Markets Podcast from Goldman Sachs. A breakdown of market moves and macro signals in 10 minutes or less. The Markets Podcast from Goldman Sachs. Listen now.
12:43I'm Barry Ritholtz, inviting you to join me for the Masters in Business podcast. Every week, we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing, and business. CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market. Whether you own stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, crypto, you really need to hear these conversations. Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Schiller. Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio. Sometimes it's authors, Michael Lewis, author of The Big Short and Moneyball.
13:28Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week. That's the Masters in Business podcast with me, Barry Ritholtz. Listen on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
13:48This is a story about giving back, and in particular, the single place in America that does it better than anyone else. Earlier this year, we brought you the story of the wealthiest spot in the country. The residents of Teton County, Wyoming, have an average annual income of around a half a million dollars. They also donate more per person than anyone else. But then, it's easy to give more when you have more. So who gives the most as a proportion of how much they make? That's another story altogether. It's a chilly autumn morning in western Michigan. And today, like every Sunday, people here are heading to church.
14:31It's a small town. I mean, we have, what, two lights, maybe? You know, not very big. But I do know that they're very giving. We genuinely do care about the people that are right next door to us. You know your neighbors. You know the people that your kids go to school with. You see them on a daily basis. Of all the cities, towns, and communities across the United States, building stands apart when it comes to lending a helping hand. But to understand why, we have to think about the nature of giving. Generosity is more than just money. It's being a family. It's being part of the community. Community is something Pastor Ryan Snyder and his congregation think about a lot.
15:14Even more so when we told them what we had found. After years of research, Harvard economist Raj Shetty and his team joined the U.S. Census Bureau to create the Opportunity Atlas, a project analyzing billions of data points to learn about the economic fabric of America. Among the factors they studied was volunteerism. In this case, the share of people in a given place who are members of a volunteer group. And there is one town, one single zip code that stands above the rest. You guessed it. We're just a little tea on town. I mean, we don't, Belding? Are you kidding? We have nothing famous. I know that Belding has its flaws just like everybody else does.
15:54But one thing I can say about Belding is that Belding is willing to support when support is necessary. Anytime that there's a need, everybody will always step up. no doubt. According to the Opportunity Atlas, about 7 % of people nationwide are part of a volunteering group. In Belding, zip code 48809, that figure is 56%. I was born and raised in Belding. I lived here for a long time, and I'm still in this community. Community isn't just you being in your house and you happen to live next to others. Community is that you're willing to help others regardless of your beliefs, regardless of your political stances, regardless of what they look like.
16:37Generosity is an individual act, but it also is an act that responds to the social environment. Kevin Fitzpatrick is the director of the Community and Family Institute at the University of Arkansas. Whether it's an individual characteristic or something that our family always did or now it's something that our church does, I mean, people are brought to generosity through a lot of mechanisms. Although Belding might have an especially strong community, it's just one remarkable place in a particularly remarkable state. Take a look at membership and volunteer groups across the country as a whole, and the competition isn't close.
17:20Michigan is in a league of its own. We asked Michigan native and former Blackstone vice chairman Tony James why that might be. I was born in Wyandotte, as you point out. Not many people actually know that. No one's heard of it. But now my real connection is I have a summer home in northern Michigan. And people say, do you have a house in your Hamptons? Do you have a place in Nantucket? No, I go to northern Michigan. I love northern Michigan. It's absolutely beautiful. There aren't many New Yorkers there. If I told you that of all the states in the Union, Michigan ranked at the top in terms of volunteering, would you be surprised?
17:55I was very surprised, honestly. Having said that, that whole Midwestern Bible Belt area was pretty much the same green color. So it got me thinking about why. And I think what distinguishes that part of the country is small towns. not really rural like the American West where there's lots of empty space and certainly not urban but small towns and towns that have been struggling I guess economically for the last 25 or 50 years shrinking manufacturing base and so on so I think those towns have certain common factors like strong church strong social institutions the 4-H Club the Boy Scouts the Elks Club the VFW a lot of engagement with kids' schools.
18:43And so I think the communities know each other. James retired from Blackstone in 2022 after two decades at the firm. His deep commitment to philanthropy came not so much from his time in Michigan as from his experience in New York and on Wall Street. At some point, I realized that the people in finance that I most admired weren't just successful in their careers and ran big companies. They added community service to it. And it got to the point where the leaders in our industry, if they had the capability of making a difference and the financial resources to make a difference and weren't doing anything, I started to lose respect for them.
19:20So I decided that there's a message there and that I should start leaning into getting involved with philanthropy. And I think people are inherently generous. They do give to the church or to the United Way or something. But until you start leaning in, you don't realize how much impact you can have and how many opportunities there are to make a difference. Americans spent about 5 billion hours volunteering in 2023, valued at around$167 billion. But in the richest country in the world, it comes as no surprise that much of our giving is financial. The U.S. donated almost$600 billion last year, and New York has the highest total contributions.
20:04Teton County, home of Jackson Hole, generally gives away the highest amount per capita. But the people who donate the most, as a proportion of their income, live about halfway in between New York and Wyoming, in a place that happens to be Professor Fitzpatrick's backyard. If you look at philanthropy across northwest Arkansas, we would see that over the last several decades, as the large philanthropic organizations have responded, it so too has the individual. Here in Benton County, Arkansas, the average annual charitable deduction is about 15 percent of residents' income. That's well above the figure for Teton County and several times higher than the national average.
20:50So what makes this area so unique? We asked a local philanthropist. I moved to northwest Arkansas in 2002 with a little bit of a life transition and started working for a small family business for an hourly rate and worked my way up through that company and ultimately was able to buy it from the founder. Aaron Marshall ran the firm for eight years before selling it, starting his own nonprofit and building housing for hundreds of homeless residents on a site where they had been living in tents. He called it New Beginnings. And although Marshall stepped away from his business to spend more time and money on those around him, he still says the businesses of Northwest Arkansas could be the secret to the area's generosity.
21:37Three businesses in particular. There's something special about Northwest Arkansas. It's a unique place. We're the home of Walmart, Tyson, J.B. Hunt. Those families with names that almost anyone would recognize have not only set a tone by their business success and entrepreneurship, but they also set a tone for charitable giving and building the community and making it better over the last 30 years. For Marshall, giving goes a long way back. He donated$2 of the very first$20 he ever earned, but he also thinks it helps to see firsthand the charity of others and the way that business success and philanthropy can go hand in hand.
22:22I would say that's inspired a whole nother tier of people like me who were running small businesses in support of some of those larger companies or the other companies from around the country that support them and I think that there's hundreds of people like me who live here whose names you'll never hear and wouldn't recognize that are doing work quietly behind the scenes to make Northwest Arkansas one of the best places to live in our country. In the context of big giving, there oftentimes is medium and small and tiny giving. I mean, it's an energy and it's an atmosphere of generosity that gets created.
23:09We have these corporate giants that have done such an amazing job in responding to the needs of not only the local community, but the regional and state communities, that it's really inspired a whole generation of givers. Perhaps the legendary investor and philanthropist Warren Buffett put it best in his note this month to Berkshire Hathaway shareholders. In the letter, he described his plans to step away from the firm and give away over a billion dollars, writing, quote, when you help someone in any of thousands of ways, you help the world. Kindness is costless, but also priceless. Whether you are religious or not, it's hard to beat the golden rule as a guide to behavior.
23:59And all God's people said, amen. Back in Michigan, Pastor Snyder agrees. Love your neighbor as yourself. It's like just being a brother, just being there for someone, regardless of whether or not they've been there for you. You're okay to just jump in and help. You're okay being there for other people. What makes America unique in this world is the way private Americans give so generously. You don't see that anywhere else in the whole world. And our government doesn't support a lot of these charities the way they do. Think of the museum world, the British Museum, the Louvre. They live off government support.
24:40The Metropolitan Museum is 100 % supported by private philanthropy and private giving of art. Nothing from the government. If we shrink that private philanthropy, I think we'll see it in a lot of places in the community. And I think it would be a terrible thing. So I think that's a really important pillar of American society and unique. And we should be grateful for it, not threatening. Whether it's New York City, Belding, or Bentonville, there are many different ways of looking at giving and of doing it. Michigan and Arkansas are exceptional, though hardly unique. But in both cases, the lessons are clear.
25:22Community matters. Generosity is contagious. And giving back can yield unexpected results. Through your long history of charitable giving, what have you learned? What about it has changed in your mind? from what you saw originally? The most satisfaction I've had in my life has not been the business success, the year over year growth, or selling for more than I purchased a company for. It's walking around the hallways and the sidewalks of New Beginnings, talking to somebody who a year ago was unsheltered in the woods, didn't know where their next meal was going to come from, and now they're in a safe environment and they have a plan for permanent housing.
26:10The satisfaction level that comes from giving and investing when you have the ability to do so for people that don't is 10 or 100x any other experience of my life. A remarkable return on investment, not in dollars, but in fulfillment. Thank you so much. Generosity pays dividends all its own. Up next, President Biden wanted more green energy. President Trump wants more fossil fuels. We examine whether they both may be right.
26:55I'm Carol Masser. And I'm Tim Stenevec, inviting you to join us for the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Now, every day, we are bringing you reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead. We've got insight on the people, the companies, and trends that are shaping today's complex economy. That's right, Tim. We're all over global business, finance, tech news, all as it is happening in real time. And we've got complete coverage of the U.S. market close. Gotta say, basically, if it impacts financial markets, if it impacts companies, if it's impacting trends and narratives that are out there, we are on it.
27:24We also have a lot of fun doing it. Bloomberg Business Week also brings you the analysis behind the headlines through conversations with our expert guests. And we are doing this all live each weekday. And then we bring you the best analysis in our daily podcast. Search for Bloomberg Business Week on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen. Check it out on your way home from work to catch up on the conversations that you miss during the business day. And on the weekend, check it out for a complete wrap-up of your business week. That's the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. I'm Carol Masser.
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27:53And I'm Tim Stanovic. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.
28:04This is a story about false choices. Washington can often seem like a split screen with one party or administration simply taking the other side in endless debates. We've seen this with energy policy and the back and forth over fossil fuels versus so-called green energy. But on this one, could they both be right? I signed the most significant climate and clean energy law ever, ever in the history of the world. Do you know what it is? We have a policy. It's called drill, baby, drill. That's our policy. Two visions now bound by the same reality, an industry under pressure. We expect demand for electricity in the United States to grow by about 25 percent.
28:49racing to power our ever-growing digital appetite. What we know now is that the nation, the country, is short of electrons. While millions of Americans are already feeling the strain. And they just said, Mary, you sold us peace of mind. When you look at the last few decades, electricity demand in the U.S. is a three-part story. From the early 1990s through about 2005, demand rose steadily as the economy grew and the grid expanded with it. Then, from 2005 to 2020, the trend flattened, efficiency improved, and industries modernized. But starting around 2020, the pattern shifted again. For the first time in more than a decade, electricity demand renewed its upward march, and the projections for the future only climb from there.
29:42AI is affecting really everything across the board in the electricity generation sector at the moment. Ethan Zindler is the head of country and policy research at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, having served as climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. He sees efforts by the Trump administration to cut back on green energy as running up against the overall demand for more energy. When it comes to the zero carbon or lower carbon energy technology companies, in some ways it's the best of times and worst of times. Worst of times in the sense that some major important subsidies have been removed or are in the process of being removed through actions from Congress.
30:23The bill as amended is passed. But the best of times aspect of it is the demand for electricity after essentially being flat for about two decades is now quite quickly rising. So this is a real substantial change and something that is providing a good deal of uplift to the industry. Markets are voting with their wallets, as they always do, betting on anything that can build fastest and connect first, green or not. The S &P's main gauge tracking clean energy is up about 50 percent this year. But behind the boom, most of the power supporting that AI growth still comes from gas and coal, as they are set to shoulder much of the next decade's growth in electricity demand.
31:06We've largely solved the production side of energy. We know how to produce natural gas. We know how to produce oil. We know how to produce electrons. Our challenge in America today has become getting that product to market. A challenge Dan Briette knows well. He led the Energy Department in President Trump's first administration. So it wasn't that long ago all the talk was about energy independence. It now seems to be energy sufficiency from whatever source it comes. What are we doing to make sure we have sufficient energy? Beginning with, at the federal level, what they're looking at are things like permitting.
31:41One of the challenges to building projects here in America has been the permitting process. We have a dear mutual friend, and he's the CEO of a major pipeline company. He has said quite bluntly, he said, it takes me longer to get the permit than it does to build the pipeline. And that's a problem. When President Trump returned to office, he said some things that some people interpreted as saying we want to go back to favoring fossil fuels more. Has there been a shift back toward fossil fuels? There's been a shift toward the realism that is necessary in energy production. I think for years and years and years, perhaps as many as 10 years, the United States looked at energy policy almost exclusively through the lens of environmental policy or environmental science.
32:22We're going to put the miners back to work. But when you think about energy and its importance to our economy, you cannot look at it exclusively through this environmental science lens. You mentioned oil and natural gas. They're also alternative sources of energy, some call it renewables or green energy. What is that balance looking like and is it shifting? It's not shifting very much. I mean, what we're seeing are more and more renewables being put onto the grid. That's certainly true. But that's largely capacity, you know, the capacity, the ability to make energy. It's not the production of energy.
32:54Those are two different concepts. Although we see a lot of renewable technologies like solar and wind being put onto the grid, it's important to remember that they only produce the energy about 30 to 35, maybe 40 percent of the time. But it's going to take all forms of energy. That much we do know. According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, data centers could consume about 4.4 percent of global electricity by 2035. and companies representing both sides of the debate race to increase energy production, there's another build-out taking place, one that doesn't depend on the grid for distribution, one that is closer to home.
33:33We have a big increase in the demand for energy. What is your company doing to help with that? Oh, we do have an incredible demand, increasing demand for energy. And what I love about what Sunrun is doing is we are providing for Americans an avenue for energy independence so they can generate their own energy, they can store their own energy. Mary Powell is the CEO of Sunrun, the nation's largest residential solar and battery company. She says Americans are not waiting around for Washington to resolve policy differences. We really pivoted very hard to what I call the storage-first company. We did that a couple of years ago.
34:11We started as a more traditional solar company. So we were about, for Americans who wanted solar energy on their home, we provided that. And then we really pivoted hard to being storage first. So we put storage in homes and we pair it with solar so that they have a form of generation for storing in their home. That's not exclusive. Once you have a storage device in your home, you can be using grid energy as well to build up your storage capacity so that you as a consumer don't have to experience grid outages, which, as I think we all know, are increasing rapidly around much of the country. And at the same time, rates have gone way up.
34:52So it gives consumers a way to generate, store and control their energy cost. Just this year, we have dispatched 700 times back to the grid. And at the same time, when we do that, we provide some value back to that consumer because, of course, as we should, we get compensated for that capacity. So some of that goes for increased value for Sunrun, and it gets shared with the customers. And the markets have taken notice. Sunrun's stock surged this year on strong cash flow and record installation. You've talked about residential. Do you also have commercial applications, or are you residential-specific?
35:32No, we are all about residential. I feel like for 10 years I've talked about one of the greatest hopes I have for America's grid in terms of affordability is, you know, being the tip of the spear on a consumer-led revolution. That's really how I see it. Like there's innovation now, there's new technologies available that consumers are going to want to rapidly adopt. And then what's really cool is we can use those resources to help make the grid more affordable for all. But making power more affordable is growing more difficult. A Bloomberg analysis shows wholesale electricity prices in some U.S.
36:09regions have surged as much as 267 percent over the past five years, mostly in areas dominated by data center growth. Running a utility is really hard work, and it's really hard even when people agree, regulators, politicians, etc., that you need more resources. As a country, we really went from NIMBY, you know, not in my backyard, to Banana, which is, you know, build absolutely nothing anywhere near anyone. So, you know, again, this is capacity that's being built because consumers are deciding that they want to take more control of their energy. The same impulse driving consumers to take control of their energy supply is now shaping national policy.
36:52as the U.S. races to compete in a global energy race, a race with national security as well as economic stakes. Particularly for the market for batteries, the U.S. has really heavily relied on China to provide the large-scale batteries that are used for so-called utility-scale projects. The new One Big Beautiful Bill includes a provision that specifically attempts to turn the market away from foreign-made batteries. If you want to qualify for tax credits in a couple of years, you will need to be using American-made equipment or at least not Chinese-made equipment. I think many of the countries around the world are beginning to understand the importance of energy, not only to their economic security, but their national security.
37:38And that's why you're starting to see, in many cases, the policy shift in the way that they are. From nations to homes. I don't see this consumer-led revolution as the solution. Whether it's green or not. I see us being a really critical resource for flexible, resilient solutions for utilities. In the end, it's about power in every sense of the word. This is a real substantial change. And one reality cuts through every debate. We're going to need all of it in order to meet the demand curve. Coming up, another Formula One season, another win for Team McLaren and its leader, Zach Brown. He's here to tell us his remarkable story from self-described troublemaker in high school in California to the very top of the biggest sporting competition in the world.
38:36This is Tom Keen inviting you to join us for the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. It's about making you smarter every business day. I'm Paul Sweeney. We bring you complete coverage of the U.S. market open. We cover stocks, bonds, commodities, even crypto, all the information you need to excel. And I'm Alexis Christophorus. Bloomberg Surveillance also brings you the analysis behind the headlines. We do that through conversations with the smartest names in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. We do all this live each and every weekday that bring you the best analysis in our daily podcast.
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39:42This is a story about the fear of failure. something Zac Brown and McLaren haven't experienced a lot of lately. The team has already won Formula One's Constructors' Championship, and it has Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri numbers one and two in the driver standings going to the Las Vegas Grand Prix. But for the team's CEO, the path to the top has been an unusual one, and it all started with Mickey Mantle. The motor racing great Bruce McLaren once said, whatever we do, we must do it better than anyone else. And long before Zach Brown ran the famed papaya-colored racing team, that McLaren spirit was alive and well.
40:25I read in the TV Guide that Mickey Mantle played golf at Preston Trails Country Club. I'm 12, 13 years old, and I'm calling the country club every day. Is Mickey Mantle in? Is Mickey Mantle in? And one day they go, hold on. And I'm like, oh my God, like I might talk to Mickey Mantle. 15 minutes go by, they've called him in off the golf course. I can see why he was a bit upset being a golfer now. And so he picks up the phone and he said, hello. And I'm like, is this Mickey Mantle? And he chewed me out like there was no tomorrow. I was in my room crying my eyes out. And my mom came in and went, what's going on?
41:02I told her the story. She disappeared, got him back on the phone. He thought it was a prank. Didn't know it was 12, 13 year old kid. My mom came in and said, you and your brother, pack your bags. We're going to Dallas tomorrow. We're going to meet with Mickey Mantle. And we spent half a day with Mickey Mantle. It was the most unbelievable experience. Whether it's meeting his heroes or chasing Formula One championships, Brown is a hustler. I love the art of the deal. You know, there's an adrenaline to that. And a winner. I'm definitely motivated by the fear of defeat. I think it's the unhealthier, more stressful version, but that's how I've, back when I was racing, like, I just didn't want to lose as opposed to I really want to win.
41:49That's what gets you out of bed every day. My first collecting criteria is the car had to have won a racing period. We met the McLaren Racing CEO at the Classic Car Club of Manhattan ahead of the launch of his new book, 7 Tenths of a Second. Brown is one of the highest paid executives in Formula One, taking home$50 million last year, a reward for an executive who has returned one of motorsport's most storied teams to the top of Formula One. It almost feels harder because now we're at the top of the mountain. There's only one way to go, and this is sport, right? That terrifies me. And that's why I get up every day.
42:30It's like, I know the storm is coming, but I want to kind of keep pushing it back as much as possible and just keep doing what we're doing. Zach Brown wasn't born into this world. And growing up in California, he might not have seemed like the type who would go on to run a multi-billion dollar Formula One team. I was a bit of the troublemaker, was a bit of the class clown. I did get an A in baseball and in work experience, which were my two loves. Had there been a racing class, I'm sure I would have done well with history, science, math. Just not that exciting for me. Brown's path to racing wasn't the usual one, if there is such a thing.
43:11It all started on a 1984 appearance on Wheel of Fortune. Zach,$3 ,050. Identify this person. Wild Bill Hickok. Yeah, that's it.
43:26And the deal-making followed. So I asked Mario Andretti, how do you get started in racing? He said, karting. And there happened to be an ad in the race program for Jim Hall Kart Racing School. I had previously been on Wheel of Fortune Teen Week when I was 13 years old. I won. That was back in the day where you won prizes. So I had this stash of his and her watches. What am I going to do with these things? So I went and sold them at a pawn shop in Van Nuys. took that money, bought a go-kart, and got started racing in karting. And then it was kind of school of hard knocks. I didn't know, how do you advance?
44:00My mom being a travel agent, she found someone at TWA Airlines who was passionate about racing. They gave me some airline tickets. I'd go sell those airline tickets to pay for racing. And that's kind of how the racing career got started. If you're really going to go to motor racing, you need some financial support from someplace. Now, some people have wealthy parents or wealthy backers and things like that. You didn't necessarily have that. Your parents were much more middle class. So how did you afford it? So I started to learn how to do sponsorship. I remember my mom and dad kind of talking about how they could help me.
44:32And so my mom gave me her salary for a year, which is about$30 ,000,$40 ,000, a lot of money. But in the big scheme of things from racing, you know, there's families that have spent millions and tens of millions. So it was kind of enough to get me started, but not even for a full season. So I then, I didn't know anything about sponsorship, but I got fully immersed in how does sponsorship work. And really it trained me to this day, which was I needed to understand what companies wanted to do with their business and how I could use motor racing to help them achieve their goals, something that I still have with me to this day.
45:11So I just started calling everyone Mickey Mantle style. 95 out of 100 people wouldn't even take your phone call, but I was so desperate to be in racing. Just keep calling, keep calling, keep calling. And started kind of knocking down doors, building relationships and figuring it out as I went along. And then ended up getting pretty good at sponsorship by understanding what companies needed and how motor racing can help them achieve their goals. Brown was a good racer, but never made it to F1. He did, however, have a knack for deal-making. And so, in 2001, he founded a motorsport marketing firm, JMI, which helped establish Brown as a major force at the intersection of racing and business.
45:57He sold it in 2013 and joined McLaren three years later. What he came into was a mess. We were not competitive on track. We were ninth in the championship. I know I can't design a better race car. We were at rock bottom as far as sponsorship. That I knew I could make a difference on. And then morale, which was really our biggest challenge, was people weren't working well together. And it was a bit of a rudderless ship because there were so many things going on at the board. And there was, I don't know, three, four bosses that were in and out. So I think any company, forget about whether it's a racing team, just any company, If you've got a lack of overall leadership because of what was going on, then it's going to be hard to kind of build momentum.
46:45So first thing I worked on was trying to fix the economics because I felt that was my sweet spot. Trying to get everyone to kind of believe. And then ultimately, if I could get everyone to believe in the economics in, then the massively talented people that could design a faster race car, I could get them the tools that they need. And then drivers are something that I'm very comfortable with. And so bringing in Lando Norris and then, of course, Oscar. But we had great drivers in Oscar and we had a great driver lineup. So tackled trying to kind of build momentum. And we got that momentum going and then it just accelerated.
47:21When Brown joined McLaren in 2016, the team was recording steady losses and languished at the foot of the F1 table. But it reversed that under Brown, raising its annual revenue and climbing the standings, culminating in winning the title in 2024. Brown says changing the team's culture was a big part of the turnaround. I'm sure there are people that wouldn't fit in our culture, but I think that's what makes McLaren so special, is we've created a culture that we all buy into, we're all like-minded, I have no yes people on the team. You know, everyone can speak up. I get upset if they don't, and they know they can.
48:04I get upset if they don't challenge me. My job is to, you know, sometimes put the puck on the ice, and I'll come in with a view, sometimes an even very strong view, and I'll do a 180 if, you know, I hear from my team, actually, Zach, I don't think you're thinking about that the right way. And it takes some time for people to get comfortable are kind of challenging the CEO, but I get upset if they don't. So they know they're not allowed to hold back. I'll get very grumpy if it's like, well, I thought this, I just didn't say anything. So everyone in our team speaks up. But then once we align around what we're going to do, we all hold hands and we're in this together.
48:41And you'll never be able to tell if everyone, if it was a unanimous vote or a majority. And it's okay to have a difference of opinion. That's welcomed. It's kind of, you know, coming back to racing, I've learned so much about being a driver that I think is relevant to being a CEO. So you need to be able to listen well to your engineers. You need to be able to communicate well. You need to have a lot of trust in your team. It's life or death. You need to be very data-driven and you need to chase perfection, but know that you're actually never going to be perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect lap, a perfect race car.
49:19So you need to have a group of people that are kind of happy always being like, well, that's just not good enough. We're fortunate in our careers if we find a person, two persons, three people that we can look up to and borrow from and learn from, carry with us. You already mentioned Mickey Mantle and Marion Dratti, pretty big names. Are there other people that you really treasure your experience with? Oh, yeah. Roger Penske would have to be right at the top. While he's been massively more successful, but I'm still going. Well, so is he, which is what's amazing. He'll never stop. You know, he started off as a racer, built a great team, built a great business, understood how to use his racing to build his business.
50:06Knows how to build his racing team off his business. So I kind of was in the business of racing. So a lot of similarities. He's a racer. He's been in Formula One in IndyCar. You know, the only thing he hasn't won is the 24 Hours Le Mans. And he's 80 plus years old, staying up 24 hours, still trying to win the 24 Hours Le Mans. So surrounded himself with great people. Always he was to me growing up in America. He was the McLaren of North America because they even shared the same sponsorship. So the Penske IndyCar looked like the McLaren Formula One car from the 80s and 90s. So I think Roger Penske is someone that's right at the top of the list of someone I've got huge admiration for.
50:53Roger Penske owns IndyCar as well as the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. And his team has won more Indianapolis 500 races than any other in history. I've known Zach when he was from Indianapolis and he had a company that really managed sponsors for different race teams. And I remember sitting down with him at the airport in Indianapolis and he told me he had two choices. He could either potentially put his hand up to run IndyCar or number two, he'd have a chance to maybe become the CEO of McLaren. Well, he went one direction, we've gone another. He's done a terrific job. When you look at what he's brought to McLaren from a corporate perspective, he's a great guy on talent.
51:39He knows how to go get the best. And he's a tough guy to deal with when the standpoint or compete with. And he's really done it on his own. I mean, he's got good people, but the McLaren name has been terrific. I remember racing with Bruce McLaren, and he's taken that to the top. And with his two young drivers this year, actually racing each other for the world championship is amazing. But he's a leader. I think he's a tough competitor. And I can tell you one thing, he doesn't like to lose. That fear of failure has driven Brown from a self-described punk to the very top of Formula One. What would you today say to Zac Brown when you were in high school?
52:22If he could walk into the room, what would you say to him? I'd probably get in a fight with him. I don't know who'd win. Brown might not know who'd win, but you can guarantee neither would be happy losing.
52:39That does it for us here at Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston. See you next week for more stories of capitalism.
53:02This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. The time is approximately 11.15 a.m. About to start consensual telephone call with Dr. Daiwa Zhang. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
53:43I've never seen that much evidence in my entire career, and I don't think we'll ever see that much evidence again. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau from Bloomberg Podcasts starting on February 13th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
This week, Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman promises to bring as much as $1 trillion in investment to the US as Saudi Arabia tries to pivot from oil towards becoming a global technology and investment player. And, from small-town Michigan to the headquarters of Walmart, we reveal how philanthropy, volunteering and community ties power America’s hidden generosity. Plus, what’s driving the US’s power grid strain? Later, McLaren’s Zak Brown reveals what it really takes to build a winning culture and why great leaders never get comfortable at the top.
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