Natural Monopolies | Tariffs Reshaping Manufacturing, US Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers, Low Earth Orbit Satellites, Voluntary Carbon Markets

25:37Lawrence H. Summers:Or I should prejudge the question of how long I'm going to be a professor at Harvard. We had in the one big, beautiful bill, the one thousand dollar setting aside investment for each new child born. You and I have talked about that before, about whether that's enough money and what the administrative costs are. But we now have Secretary Besant suggesting, I think he called it perhaps a backdoor way of shoring up retirement savings and earnings for people in the out years. What do you think about that at a time when Social Security is under increasing pressure? I was surprised that Secretary Besant made the comment.

26:14Lawrence H. Summers:I was not surprised that having made the comment, he has been backing off it. since then by trying to suggest that it all goes together. But I think he got the thinking right the first time. There's a philosophy of individualism that believes in just making people take responsibility for their own security and rejects the idea of public cooperation for old age insurance. And that's something that Republicans have always flirted with. And I think you were seeing another example of that. I am very nervous about this program. My prediction is that when somebody does an accounting five years from now, the level of payments made to various financial firms and information technology companies to keep track of these accounts is going to be very large relative to the amount of spending or the amount of support that American families received.

27:28Lawrence H. Summers:And that's always been the Achilles heel of Social Security privatization. Coming up, the latest space race. This time it's covering the globe, and Elon Musk is way out in front. That's next on Wall Street Week.

27:51This is a story about a space race, not the one to be first to put a man on the moon nearly 50 years ago.

27:57Lawrence H. Summers:That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. Not even the one Elon Musk is running now to put humans on Mars in the next few years. Just over two years, we'll be sending our first uncrewed starships to Mars. then we'll send humans two years after that. Three, two, one. This is a space race much closer to Earth, one just a few hundred miles over our heads. It's being run in the world of low Earth orbit, or LEO. And what's at stake is potentially connecting everyone on the planet, including hard-to-reach bits. And lift off. Go SpaceX. Go Starlink. The stack of 60 Starlink satellites have successfully deployed from second stage.

28:45This is just providing connectivity again in places where you don't get it through other means. It's a much better solution than trying to bring fiber to really, really remote locations. It's exciting. You never know what the next big thing is. The battle for LEO satellite supremacy is on for private companies and governments. Goldman Sachs values the market at$15 billion, but expects it to grow to$108 billion by 2035. And though it may be a competition, right now it looks like a race between several tortoises and one hare way out in front. That hare is named Starlink, and it's owned by Elon Musk's SpaceX.

29:29It's 7 ,600 satellites today. They're expecting to get to as many as 48 ,000 satellites. Craig Moffitt is the co-founder and senior analyst at Moffitt Nathanson. He says Musk is so far ahead, it might be difficult for anyone to close the gap. Starlink is probably the biggest part of SpaceX at the moment and a part that investors seem to value the most highly. But it is intricately tied to the rest of the SpaceX business, which is the rockets and launches and all that sort of thing. The Starlink business itself, providing Internet access primarily to rural areas, and again, obviously not just the United States, but globally, is enormously benefited by the fact that it's connected to a satellite launch business.

30:16Making one of these satellites costs a quarter of a million to half a million dollars. Launching them adds another quarter to half a million dollars of cost to each individual satellite. If the goal is connecting the world, why are LEO satellites the best way to get there? We traveled to MIT's Aeronautics and Astronautics Department to find out from Professor Carrie Cahoy, whose specialty is satellite engineering and communications. Most people refer to lower Earth orbit as orbits that are closer to Earth. You need to be above about 300 kilometers to stay in orbit without dropping out due to atmospheric drag right away.

30:57So it can go higher. It goes up to about 1 ,000 kilometers to 1 ,200 kilometers. When you're in low-Earth orbit, if you're looking at a satellite go across the sky, it takes about 10 minutes to go from horizon to horizon. And then if you go high enough up, it's geostationary orbit, where the speed of the satellite going around the Earth is actually the same as the rotation of the Earth. And so they're always overhead in the same spot, which has a lot of advantages for communications because you never have to worry about where they are. They're always right where you left them above you. They're much farther away than low Earth orbit.

31:30One of the things that is a benefit for low Earth orbit is it's so much closer to the Earth. It only takes like 100 milliseconds or less to get a signal from the satellite down to the Earth or round trip time. When you're talking about going up to geostationary orbit, that's often large fractions of a second. It's not just the size and proximity to Earth that makes LEO special. It's also the cost. A single geosatellite can be up to 1 ,000 times more expensive than a LEO satellite to manufacture. On the other hand, it costs a lot more over time to keep those LEO satellites up there and working.

32:10In low Earth orbit, unless you have a lot of propulsion on board and ways to keep yourself fighting atmospheric drag, So low-earth orbit is above the atmosphere, but there's just enough that it starts to slow you down and decrease your orbit energy and pull you in until you re-enter and burn up, unless they're higher and have bigger fuel tanks on board and more propellant to keep them up for longer. You know, the heavier you make them, the more it costs to launch them. And liftoff. You have to be launching as many as 25 % of your satellites every year just to maintain the replacement cost of the constellation.

32:46So you're talking about launching 12 ,000 satellites a year just to keep the existing constellation operating. Those kinds of costs are staggering. Starlink has what looks like an overwhelming lead in LEO satellites. But it's not the only horse in the race. Jeff Bezos' Project Kuiper is trying at least to get on the track, though it's had to deal with manufacturing issues and launch delays earlier this year, currently leaving its constellation with fewer than 80 satellites in orbit, compared with Musk's 7 ,600 plus. When you see someone like Amazon's Project Kuiper planning a second U.S.-centered, started constellation that will occupy very much the same competitive niche as Starlink, it's really hard to see why that makes any sense and why there are any returns available to Amazon.

33:41A Starlink competitor that's much further along than Kuiper comes from Europe. OneWeb launched its first operational LEO satellite the same year as Starlink. European satellite operator Eudelsat acquired OneWeb in 2023 and currently operates its own constellation of about 640 satellites. And OneWeb is pursuing a strategy that goes beyond LEO satellites alone. We are the only satellite that has both the GEO and the LEO. And in fact, quite a number of them because we have 35 in GEO and over 600 in LEO. Jean-Hubert Lenat is the chief strategy and resources officer at Utilsat. And it's not just the combination of GEO and LEO satellites that he thinks sets his company on a different path from Starlink.

34:30It's also the market they serve. Starlink does address the consumer market, meaning that they do need much more capacity to actually serve all those customers. We are providing very basic but important connectivity to businesses, to government. What is very important to understand is we are not in a consumer market. We have right now just north of 5 billion in total globally of connectivity in B2B. and this is going to grow at least three times between now and basically 2033 where it should be close to 15 billion at by the time but more importantly the Leo connectivity is really what is going to drive this market so the Leo connectivity right now in B2B is only around 2 billion as we speak this year expected to be there whereas we do expect it will be north of 10 billion probably 11 or 12 billion by the same year of 2033, meaning that it will just be multiplied fivefold for that period.

35:36OneWeb, a subsidiary of Utilsat, manages its constellation out of its London office. I lead a team that has one main objective, which is uptime. So guaranteeing that our customers are actually always able to connect to the service that we provide wherever they are. And the role of the team here is actually to guarantee that the system works at the top performance and it delivers the high speed and the low latency that the constellation is supposed to provide. OneWeb also differs from Starlink in the way it gets its satellites into orbit. OneWeb has no rockets of its own, so it relies instead on other firms for its launches, including, you guessed it, Musk's SpaceX.

36:19OneWeb, Sat Delta 2 and Delta 6, separation confirmed. In fact, it is SpaceX's advances in reusable rockets that have transformed the industry. Launch costs used to be very high and it used to be very difficult to get things into orbit. So the reduction in cost of launch, partly driven by the reusable launch vehicles that SpaceX has developed with, for example, Falcon 9. Both SpaceX and OneWeb have close relations with governments. SpaceX through U.S. government contracts and OneWeb through partial government ownership. In mid-June, the U.K. government announced plans to invest 163 million euros in Utilsat, joining France and other investors in a major funding round, bringing the total raise to 1.5 billion euros or 1.8 billion dollars.

37:09What are your capital needs going forward as you see it? We have indeed our plans to invest 4 billion euros of CAPEX between now and 2029. And those 4 billion, this is essentially a large part to replace our current LEO constellation. LEO satellites have a smaller lifetime of around seven years, so we'll have to replace those ones by 2028. So a bulk of that CAPEX is precisely for that replacement. The LEO satellite race is on, and Starlink is way out in front. But how big is the prize for winning the race? How good a business is this? Even for the leader, Starlink, it looks like it might not be as profitable as Musk originally thought.

37:56Roughly half of the cost is in the rocketry segment. The original concept was that they would have a big leg up because they could put these satellites into the payloads of rockets that were going up for other customers, whether it's NASA or other governments. And then they could add their own satellites cheaply to these payloads. It hasn't worked out that way. Virtually every single rocket launch thus far has been a dedicated rocket launch solely for the purpose of launching Starlink satellites. So the cost structure is quite a bit higher than you might have imagined it was going to be. And liftoff.

38:34And in the end, how much room at the finish line is there for competitors in the Leo space race? Is there room for more than one? Or is it a natural monopoly given the capital investment required and the limited market to be served? We do believe that in the future, there will be probably four, five, maybe six players, not more. There is clearly room for those players because precisely the demand for connectivity, as you and I can experience every day is just growing and growing. The revenue opportunity is almost certainly going to keep being divided up because of all of these quasi-economic logic that's more geopolitical and military logic instead.

39:16And ultimately, it means you'll always have more competitors in this business than the economics would dictate makes any sense. It's very exciting to see it growing like this, to see remote access without terrestrial infrastructure needed. That is a very interesting and exciting growth area. We've come a long way since the days of Sputnik and Gemini and the space shuttle, days when we waited months for each launch, days when only governments could compete. Now there are launches nearly every day from private and government players, making the question not who will win, but what trophy the winner will take home.

39:59Up next, we turn from satellites to adapting to climate change. Tom Montag of Rubicon Carbon makes his case for liquid and transparent voluntary carbon markets making the difference.

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41:14on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

41:25This is a story about carrots and sticks, and whether we need both if we're to make real progress on climate change. Various governments have tried their hand at reducing carbon emissions, from setting limits to providing billions of dollars in incentives to go green. But President Trump's return to the Oval Office has put climate change on something of a back burner for the U.S. government.

41:48Lawrence H. Summers:I terminated the ridiculous Green News scam. I withdrew from the unfair Paris Climate Accord, which was costing us trillions of dollars. While governments try their various approaches and adjust them from time to time, the challenges from climate change just keep increasing, with the world sending over 35 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere every year. And the average global surface temperature in 2024, 2.3 degrees Fahrenheit above the 20th century average, which raises the question whether private markets may help the situation with or without active government support. It's about financing climate.

42:31And that's a complicated problem because it's going to take trillions of dollars. After serving as vice chair of Bank of America, Ann Finucane is now chair of Rubicon Carbon, a carbon credit management firm run by TPG. So it's a piece of the puzzle. I think it's an effective one. It could be a lot more effective than it's been. But I think as the European market matures, as the American market matures, and I know there are issues right at the moment, But nonetheless, I think that we will see it as a component and an important component in the capital stack that will underwrite this change. Lambert Schneider has studied carbon credit markets at the UCO Institute in Freiburg, Germany, and is co-author of an OECD paper on the interplay between voluntary and compliance carbon markets.

43:23Carbon credits is an instrument where someone, a private entity or public entity, can invest in mitigation projects and climate and then claim the emission reductions. A practical example would be if a company invests in an afforestation project somewhere, the trees grow, they absorb CO2, and then for each ton of CO2 that is absorbed, a ton of carbon credit is being issued and then these carbon credits can for example be used to achieve voluntary climate goals. Prominent examples is avoiding deforestation and then there are projects which burn greenhouse gases, waste greenhouse gases, there are projects which use renewable energies and there are also projects who suck CO2 out of the atmosphere like for example direct air capture and carbon sequestration in geological reservoirs.

44:21So you take CO2 out of the atmosphere and then you store it underground. Many companies have set voluntary mitigation targets. They have said we want to do action beyond reducing our own emissions, to do beyond value chain mitigation. And compliance markets are markets that are established by governments or multilateral organizations where companies have an obligation to meet certain targets or quotas. The most prominent example for a compliance market is international aviation. Under the International Civil Aviation Organization, airline operators must compensate part of their emissions. And so each airline needs to purchase a certain number of carbon credits.

45:05Despite the promise of carbon credit markets, they have yet to live up to their full potential.

45:11Lawrence H. Summers:I would say they have not developed the way that we had hoped. It's been a pretty flat market, quite frankly, for the last four years or so. Tom Montag was a colleague of Ant Finucane as COO of Bank of America and president of Global Banking and Markets. Since 2022, he has been the CEO of TPG's Rubicon Carbon, working with the firm's Rise Climate Fund, chaired by former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, and with chief science officer and Nobel Prize winner Dr. Jennifer Jenkins. When you do a carbon project, David, you go to registries and you get, they give you carbon credits based on their read of your project and where it is and what it's doing.

45:53Lawrence H. Summers:And in retrospect, some of the projects use baselines that weren't so good and other things like that, that led to them being overstated, too many credits being issued. The early days of carbon credits were, there were problems. There were problems with verification of what the project was. the project itself may have had some issues and those that were validating it, developing it and selling it may have had some issues. A few years ago it was imagined that it could be$200 billion. It's a fraction of that, a very small fraction of that. And we need to do some things to make a change. We need to have standards, we need to have rating agencies.

46:31In the same way you would have any financial market, you have to have a developer or manufacturer of the product, you have to have a broker, you have to have a rating agency, governments will get involved and then you have to create a larger market. But those things are happening on a small scale now. And I mentioned Europe. Europe is going to require it and in requiring it where they sort of did the stick not the carrot, they're beginning to think about what's the carrot here. There's a new mechanism and that standard is really more ambitious than anything that we had before, it really tries to draw on the lessons learned from the past and to avoid the mistakes that will be made in the voluntary carbon market and set a higher bar.

47:14So what does Rubicon Carbon bring to this that's needed?

47:18Lawrence H. Summers:We came with kind of an institutional backing with, you know, Anne Finucane and I coming from Bank of America and TPG funding. We have a filter. Everything we show and do go through our science team, gets a score. So we bring the quality and the transparency that people need to invest in the markets. One of the things we're trying to do is to develop a product that makes it more liquid and transparent for people that don't have the infrastructure or need to understand these projects and what are the risks of these projects and where they are. It isn't like a stock where you can get a prospectus and just read it.

47:52Lawrence H. Summers:And these are very complex areas with different systems and new technologies. And so we kind of developed two new projects to do that. One is that we call the Rubicon carbon ton. It's like an ETF. If you buy tons out of the Rubicon carbon ton and we have them in nature or we call super pollutants or removals, then you get a portfolio of curated tons underneath that that we're always managing as we go. We just did the other first of its kind, a Rubicon rated ton, and that was a ton of a portfolio of credits that are rated not only by our guys, but by B0, which is kind of the Moody's of rating carbon products.

48:33In order to create a market for trading carbon credits, there has to be some way to translate the climate effects across a wide array of activities, all of which can reduce carbon released into the atmosphere, but in very different ways.

48:47Lawrence H. Summers:There's a whole list of different kinds of projects and things that can range from literally filtering out of the filters that take carbon out of the environment, which is expensive, to what they call biochar, which is high temperature burning of biomass that's stored in the ground instead of decaying into the environment. There's a reforestation where we're replanting degraded land and there's methane capture or gas capture at source and destruction. So that wide range and the prices of those, David, can be from anywhere from, you know, five dollars to hundreds of dollars. Do you at Rubicon Carbon yourself or do you pay somebody else to go back and audit to see whether the farmer planted the tree and the tree's there?

49:30We do a lot of work.

49:32Lawrence H. Summers:You know, satellite imagery is amazing these days. So you can really get granular in what you can see. So we do a combination of site visits and also we buy the best satellite imagery you can possibly find to check on the trees and what the tree cover is. Have they been planted? Are they still there? All those types of things. There has been some changes in various governments, including the United States. And some of the governments seem to be backing off some of the commitments on climate. Is that hurting your business? I think it would help our business at the end of the day because people will realize the government's not going to do it for them.

50:05To its credit, Rubicon Carbon has notched one very significant deal, a Microsoft purchase of carbon removal credits. A big deal like Microsoft really matters because, first of all, it's huge. It's 18 million tons and 500 square miles of carbon sequestration and reduction. And it's called an offtake deal where they're buying it over a series of years. I also think that there is an appreciation that, particularly with technology companies, but not just technology companies, we need more energy and we need all energy. So the idea that we would incentivize those to do more production and clean energy, along with perhaps more traditional energy, it seems like we're tying a hand behind the American back.

50:52I do think we are capitalists and there is a market opportunity we would not want to miss and we surely don't want China to go ahead of us. Carbon markets need transparency, standards and depth. But even then, they're only as good as the difference they make in the real world. And Rubicon Carbon already has some projects starting to make a difference in reducing net carbon emissions. You're taking barren land and creating a nature-based solution. So imagine something that has gone to waste that is now productive again. Or direct air capture is the idea that you're capturing the carbon emissions.

51:33So either of those are certainly accretive. I think that you're going to see work on farmland where they will work with farmers in the years to come, particularly in Europe, of generating carbon credits by farming a little bit differently, more in a regenerative way and measuring the soil and how the better use of soil, the better use of less water is going to be accretive. But we have a project called SpecBoom that we're working on. It's in South Africa. It's the reforestation of an area. SpecBoom is actually a plant. We, along with a couple of other funders, are putting capital in so that they can build and grow this.

52:11I'd like to just say one thing about climate change. It's about clean energy. It's about enough water for the world. And it's about being able to breathe clean air. This isn't about politicizing anything. It's just the reality that the science community tells us. We're capitalists, so we like to take advantage of something that could have capital returns. And I think this will. Coming up next, what does it take to put your work into outer space?

52:42Quick one before you jump back in. You're listening for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using ChatGPT for work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town.

53:27Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

53:53They often say it doesn't take a rocket scientist. But what if it does? What does it take to make a career in launching vehicles into outer space? Aeroastro professor Carrie Cahoy of MIT tells her story of what got her started and what she finds most exciting. So I was working in college and I was there on federal work study. So I had to get funding to go to college and didn't have another way to do it. And so I had been working in the libraries and I saw this advertisement for somebody who needed an undergraduate researcher to help with a Mars rover program. And that turned out to be Professor Steve Squires at Cornell who ended up launching the Mars rovers.

54:38So I started interning with him and was working on Mars rovers with Steve Squires for a while. And then I was in electrical engineering and got into satellites, went to grad school on that. So that's kind of how I got involved. It seemed like a cooler job. I love being in the library. Don't get me wrong. I'm a bookworm and my first word was book. But the rovers were a lot of fun. But you love this. You love satellites. Why? It is challenging. It is one of the most mentally challenging, toughest fields I've ever been in because when it breaks, it is gone. And it is really hard to obtain funding, get funding to do it, get the hardware built, have it working, get it to the rocket, have it to survive the rocket launch, get up to orbit and then you're able to do things and get perspectives that really there's no other way to do it and you're also able to answer science questions like for astronomers and astrophysicists or people who are doing remote sensing on earth that you can't get that data any other way.

55:43And that part's really rewarding. Watching a rocket launch is worth a good five years of working your butt off, I would say. Like if I had to give the trade, like just having a rocket launch, feeling the blast and watching, knowing that, you know, your spacecraft is on there and then you have to run back and make sure it works, but like that it's on there and it's going up is like one of the coolest feelings ever. So there's a lot of joy and pride and skill building and challenge in the field. So that's one of the reasons why I love it. As you do your work here at MIT, can you see what the next big thing is likely to be?

56:19It's exciting. You never know what the next big thing is. But some of the things that I think are exciting are the ability of satellites to communicate directly to cell phones. Now, I know Iridium and the Iridium phones have been a thing for a while, but connecting directly to existing consumer electronics without modification, your iPhone, is happening. And so they're essentially showing, there are multiple companies now who are starting to show that you can actually take the technology that are normal cell towers on the ground and put them in low Earth orbit and they will work with your phone.

56:53And so we have some search and rescue signals and partnerships between companies like Apple Global Star, and there are a few other companies that are working in this space to do direct-to-cell phone. I think that's going to be really interesting as time evolves, especially as we have more autonomous vehicles and people are needing entertainment and data in different places because they have more time to use it. I think also on orbit, getting to the point where we have more compute on orbit, right now satellites mostly are run by not very sophisticated computers. They're getting better and they're starting to use more commercial technology, more of the NVIDIA chips and AMD chips on orbit.

57:38But when we're developing, it's really hard to only just take pictures and then send them all down to the ground. So you have a lot of data that in the normal mode of operations, you take a lot of data and you communicate it by radio, usually because of weather, all down to the ground. And then you process it on the ground. And then you tell your shuttle it's what to do next. So there's a cycle of getting data down to the ground. And it's hard to get data down to the ground. Getting frequency licenses is difficult. It's expensive. It requires a lot of management. Requires a lot of power on board.

58:12So putting computers on board that can survive on board and running now some of the new AI models so you can take the picture. On board you have a model that can decide whether or not what you wanted in the picture is in the picture. If it's in the picture it prioritizes it. If it's not in the picture it throws it out. If it's a cloudy picture it throws it out and saves only the things you really wanted and then sends it back down. Also getting the satellites to communicate between each other so that they can tell each other, hey, I finished this task, here's the next on the task list passed back to you, kind of like playing tag, instead of waiting for that satellite to tell the ground and the ground to tell everybody what the new plan is.

58:52So being able to replan, retask, and to be able to make decisions about what is good and bad data dynamically will be new and exciting. One of the things Professor Cahoy and her team of grad students are working on is a sort of robot that can be launched into orbit and then assemble satellites in space to avoid the rough and tumble of the launch itself. All right, so this is a project that's called Orbital Locker. One of the challenges about space is that you have to get everything to orbit, and to get to orbit has to go on a rocket. And rockets are very vibrating, dynamic, loud. They shake everything a lot.

59:33During the launch. During the launch, yeah. for those first couple of it's only a couple minutes but they're very important minutes and so everything we do about satellites we pack them in tight we glue everything down everything's tied down latched down you know locked in so that nothing breaks um most of the time um when it's going up in the rocket um and then when we get to orbit the you know clearing opens we get to orbit the satellites deployed, it's in orbit, the solar panels will unfurl, but you basically have the thing you built on the ground. What we were thinking is, wouldn't it be great if you could put a platform in orbit that was packed with things that don't break when they're on a rocket, So very simple components that you can just stow away.

1:00:24And you have these kind of robust robots that can unpack it themselves, but then they can build whatever they want. Once they get up on orbit, there's no shaking. Once you're on orbit, it's very quiet. So it's a kit. Yeah, it's like a kit. It's a kit where the only thing that has to survive the rocket launch are these XYZ, so three-axis robots that move around and an arm that snaps everything together. and as long as these elements are robust enough to not get destroyed or damaged in the launch, you can go up to orbit and build something as big as you want. But you have to program in advance what the robot has to assemble in what order and things, right?

1:01:03Yes, so there's a lot of algorithm work and software work on that, but the nice part about this is the platform on orbit you can still talk to. You can reprogram things on orbit. You can give it different directions if you want to. You just need to make sure you kind of know what's in your warehouse. So it's kind of like almost a warehouse of hardware that you could use on orbit to assemble things and deploy them and make them as big and as complicated as you want without having to fit in the couple of meters. I think if we get Starship up to six meters of space that you have in a rocket, you could go well beyond that and not have to pre-plan everything to unfurl and deploy.

1:01:43you could just build it the way you wanted it as big as you wanted once you get up there. Is this a prototype? Is this actually been used? This is a prototype. So this has been used. So this recently in May was on a zero gravity launch. So the graduate students, James and Lila, who are working on it, took it on one of those planes that do the parabolic flights. And so you have microgravity for, you know, a few seconds, 30 seconds at a time. And so they had the robot working there. And they actually learned a lot about cord management. So wires don't behave. They don't lay down like this when they're in gravity.

1:02:20Like they're kind of held down. But when they're on orbit, they move around a lot more. And so we had to update our wire management system. And then we'd like to get this to be a prototype on orbit on the space station. So it could be inside the station, and we could start to demonstrate it, or on a free flyer on its own satellite later. So that's kind of what we're hoping. That does it for us here at Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston. See you next week for more stories of capitalism.

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