How Ethical are My Sneakers? Niki Gamara on Speaking Out for Workers

0:00For me, fashion is a verb, so it's too fashion. You're listening to Wardrobe Crisis with Clare Press. Join me every week as we look at sustainability, ethics and the business and madness of fashion.

0:16Have you got anything in your wardrobe that's potentially been made under exploitative conditions? I think the short answer is probably. But what would you do if you found out after buying something that the brand hasn't been acting in ways that you approve of? Maybe that there's a pretty bad story about the treatment of workers in one of their supplier factories. Let's say it's a pair of sneakers and you've already worn them, so you can't really take them back. Do you? A. Banish them to the back of the cupboard of shame under the stairs. B. Join a class action like Pam did on last week's episode when she felt a similar way about her jeans or C.

1:00Vow to support a better brand next time but for now just keep wearing them. Tell yourself you're honouring their existence, keeping them out of landfill but also feel kind of crappy every time you put them on. This tale of woe is about my own shoes, oh no! And my answer is C. I've actually got more than one pair. I bought them because they were comfier than my more sustainable veggies, and cool, and look good. What I didn't do, though, is my research before falling for their charms. And, you know, I've been doing this work for a decade, and even I can't always get it right. So, I don't know. You're going to have to listen to the episode in full to find out exactly what I'm on about.

1:42Hello! I hope you've been finding this new series on workers' rights thought-provoking. This week we're focusing on Southeast Asia, on Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia and especially on the Philippines where my guest Nikki Gamara is from. She works as an urgent appeals campaigner for Clean Clothes Campaign. She must be becoming very familiar to you from this series. So what is up for discussion? We talk about the political history of the Philippines and its legacy of colonisation. we talk about how that echoes and ripples through the economy today with brands benefiting from lower wages often producing in what's called special economic zones there's a few big u.s brands that produce in the philippines for example lululemon adidas recently pulled out so they were there until two years ago and when they closed their factory in the philippines that left four around 4 ,000 workers out of a job.

2:45And I will just say that this was recorded last year, but as I'm doing the intro, which is in mid-July 2026, the Philippines is in the news reeling again from another spate of major earthquakes. Literally today, as I'm recording this, there was a 6.2 quake off the southern coast of the Philippines. Scary stuff. So our thoughts with the people there. And while these events were not actually in the primary garment making areas of the country, we know that extreme weather events, whether it's typhoons or cyclones, floods, even tsunamis, they can all be connected and they are on the rise with marginalised communities bearing the brunt and obviously supply chain disruptions.

3:30Okay, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who got in touch or shared their thoughts about last week's ep on Levi's. and this new case being brought by four Dutch consumers alleging misleading claims and also the history of exploitation in the broader denim supply chain. Thank you to Elsa Vintage for sharing the episode. She said so many reasons to listen, like why not to buy new distressed or bleached denim? And I loved what Marco Matisic commented on Substack. He said the best part about denim jeans is the way they age naturally from dark blue to pale blue. Like shoes, they need to be worn in to get the right fit.

4:10That's part of the joy though, isn't it? I agree. Wendy Ward also agreed. She wrote, Workers developing silicosis to make fake aged jeans because people can't be bothered to keep and wear them long enough for them to age naturally. Imagine telling this to a person from 100 years ago. They'd think you were absolutely mad and they'd be right. If you want to join the conversation, please do hop on over to The Wardrobe Crisis on Substack. That's also where you can support the show. Just a reminder, especially to any educators out there who use the podcast as a teaching tool, I am passionate about making ad-free and free-for-all-to-access content.

4:50But to do that, I do need your support. And Substack and a paid subscription is how you can do that. All right, let's get to it. Welcome to The Wardrobe Crisis podcast, Nikki Gamara. Hi, I'm happy to be here. You are the Clean Clothes Campaign's Southeast Asia Urgent Appeals Coordinator. We're going to have a conversation about activism, workers' rights, and also the story of the garment industry in the Philippines, where you're from. But first of all, I wanted to start with urgent appeals. Until I interacted with the Clean Clothes Campaign, I'd never heard of that. So what is it and why is it so important?

5:24Yeah, that's not surprising at all. Urgent Appeal, actually, the term itself, it's used by a lot of human rights organizations and CSOs who have engaged in sort of like a system to how to rally solidarity and support for people who's needing like quick support in areas or countries where violations are happening. So it's not only with CCC, the term itself, but in the broader human rights movement, I think the United Nations has used the same term to put into words like solidarity system. But for CCC, it's our system to call on the more than 200 members of the network that this is happening in this country or in this small town to workers.

6:14And we need to gather quickly and support them and echo what's happening in that small town or city to the global stage. So it could be, for example, something like several hundred workers have been put on forced leave and not paid their due severance or not paid their wages. Yes. All sorts of labour rights violations. We take it up, whether that's dismissals of union leaders, whether that's non-payment of severance or whatever. Okay. Let's just touch on what countries you focus on. And can you give us a sense of the importance of the garment industry in the region? So when we say Southeast Asia, what are you talking about specifically?

6:53So we're talking about Indonesia, Cambodia, Myanmar, Thailand, Philippines. Unfortunately, we don't have members right now from Vietnam. Really? Yeah, we don't have members right now from Vietnam. That's interesting because it's such a big industry there. Yes, it is big. CCC works with independent unions, unions that are not controlled or workers' organizations that are not controlled by political parties. Here's the detail on Vietnam. It's a major CMT, so cut, make and trim location for the fashion industry and also for footwear manufacturing. Brands that produce there include H &M, Zara, Uniqlo and Nike.

7:34And also incidentally, lots of electronics are produced in Vietnam by the likes of Apple and Samsung. Vietnam is the world's third largest exporter of textiles and apparel. The US is its largest market and apparel export revenues for 2025 passed 18 billion dollars. Now Vietnam is a communist country, albeit one with a market economy, and the Communist Party of Vietnam is the only legal political party. By law, all labour unions must affiliate with the Vietnam General Confederation of Labour, the VGCLK, and that is the only legal trade union Federation and operates under strict control of the ruling Communist Party.

8:17Now they say that works. Ever since its founding, the Vietnamese trade unions have always been loyal to the interests of the working class and nation, says the party, and organised and mobilised workers, office employees and other working people to pioneer in the struggle for the independence and freedom of the homeland and the lawful and legitimate interests of the working people. But what that means in action is, if you don't agree, you can't form your own independent union. Now this is from Human Rights Watch. Industrial relations experts say that most workplaces in Vietnam currently lack transparent arbitration mechanisms to settle labour disputes.

8:57Okay, one of the campaigns that you've worked across recently involves Cambodia and the very popular sneakers brand ASICS. What happened? Because over there are my favourite sneakers. and they're Onitsuka Tigers and I brought them with me and I'm gutted. Yeah, I mean, yes, for runners, A6 is like a good brand. I understand, but... No, but honestly, let's just stop for a minute. I thought they were cool. I love these bloody sneakers. I'm gutted. So I don't want to be supporting brands that I know are doing the wrong thing. And these sneakers are extremely cool. There is a huge new flagship store in London just down from Oxford Street.

9:33And the sneakers, I've got a very on-trend yellow. They're canvas. They slip on, so I love them because you can wear them in the summer without having to wear a sock. Shut up. They're terrible. I hate them now. Yeah. So apparently the factory, I think one of the biggest sub suppliers of ASICs, because there's 20 ,000 workers in that factory Wingstar shoes. And workers there have been experiencing difficult situation. Like back in 2013, there's like cases of mass fainting and occupational health and safety. From extreme heat. Yes. And so because of that situation, the workers have been wanting to organize their own union that could represent how they want changes to happen in their working situation.

10:19But then when they started doing that, the leader of the union, Cheya Chan, was thrown to prison from ridiculous fabricated charges by the management of Wingstar Shoes. And ASICS denied apparently that they know about it. In the beginning, they were denying that it didn't happen until we were able to prove that it did. and then that they have been monitoring it. But until now, they haven't really done significant intervention to correct that. The worker has been proven to be not guilty at all. The Cambodian court overturned the decision and he was freed six months after. The union leader. Yeah, the union leader.

11:03He was released six months after being imprisoned wrongly, but he never got any compensation for that. So this supplier, it's called Wingstar, has, did you just say 20 ,000 or thereabouts employees? So it's an enormous factory in Cambodia and it is a supplier to ASICS, which owns my sneaker brand on it, Zuka Tigers. So what we're talking about here is attempts to union bust, to stop workers from organising for fair working conditions. And a long history of extreme heat and what else was going on. Was it wage linked as well or was it more to do with safety and health? Yeah, it's more to do with safety, which we think back then, like when it happened in 2013, of course, there were some changes that were done.

11:52We also engaged with ASICS back then, but then it's not, you know, it's not fully addressed. Okay, so ASICS made record profits this year and they also just launched something called the ASICS Foundation vowing, and I quote, to respect human rights and contribute to the well-being of every person working in our supply chain. How do you feel about that? It's really just, you know, it's very simple. This is one person and he, based on the organizations that have been supporting him in the union, he's only asking to be compensated a few thousand dollars for six months of not being able to provide for his family.

12:31It's very simple and And if they're actually truthful to those words, they wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't take them, I don't know, like even 24 hours to actually just do that. Coming back to this idea of urgent appeals and cases, an organization like Clean Clothes Campaign can put pressure on the brand to say, this is actually your responsibility. You don't get to say, sorry, it's not our factory. We don't know about this because you're the top of the tree. Yeah, yeah, exactly. and they always say that they're on top of you know their business when brands say about talk about due diligence we always say that when we raise cases to them through the urgent appeal system they would ask for the evidence and yeah we do have evidence the workers have the evidence from the factory floor but we always also assert that it's actually your responsibility to know what's going on it's not okay we'll provide you evidence but you should have done your work first yeah okay final question about this can i wear those sneakers you can you can wear those sneakers but don't buy any more i mean that's what i think i'm gonna look at them and think oh they're not as cool as i thought they were all right fine i'm not gonna pretend i don't have i did actually hide them under the chair yeah i think i saw it the first time i entered the room Because it's yellow.

13:57What would you have thought of me if I never raised it? That's an interesting question, Nikki. What would you have thought of me if I never raised it, knowing that you worked across that campaign? Would you think I don't know anything or would you think I was corrupt? Not really. I understand that people doesn't necessarily know everything that's happening behind this this you know like like really cool shoes or really cool shirt that they're wearing so I'm glad we're having this conversation even though I am the you know I'm on the rack for this but that's fine because it is very difficult to know all this stuff and I do feel a bit guilty because I didn't research the brand before I bought them and normally I would do that and also I hardly ever buy anything the reason I bought those sneakers was I just thought they're great and I love them they're cool and and I think that makes me relatable if flawed all right moving on fine okay what kinds of violations and working conditions do the women making our clothes in Southeast Asia face of course there's still the more direct issues that concerns women about like gender-based violence in the workplace for example we have a recent case in Indonesia where the worker experienced harassment from a fellow co-worker, from a supervisor.

15:17And when they came forward to report about it, the union leader who supported them was reported to the police. This retaliation and protecting those in the management who's actually the perpetrator. There's still that. It's not just in Indonesia. We still see a couple of those cases. and the responses or remediation on those kind of cases are still very slow. But I think the more common things are women workers not being able to enjoy any maternity benefits or even like access to better toilets, menstrual leave, and all those protection that they are supposed to get. And even things I always remember at Kalpana, we were just speaking before about the fact that the fifth person I ever interviewed on this podcast was Karpana Akta who's here with us at this event in Thailand and I remember her telling me about a typical day for a Bangladeshi garment worker and how long and arduous her day was and how the work doesn't stop when she goes home because she's a mother and she has to feed the family or she lives in a dormitory and she's far away from her family but one of the things that struck me as being just so absolutely nonsensical and you wouldn't even imagine it was a thing was that you weren't even allowed to go to the toilet because you haven't got time yeah you have to ask for permission and if you haven't done your work you stay where you are yeah exactly this is very true for especially for migrant workers in Thailand in the border area and in Myanmar we hear this a lot because in these areas it's very common for them to work very long hours like trying to fulfill Dakota in the border area sometimes even up to 16 hours a day and it's also often a matter of not knowing your rights or not being able to speak the language to assert your rights or even find out what they are.

17:05If you add to that the fact that the right to organise is often suppressed and that union leaders are often chased down, sometimes arrested for speaking out, it's a very complicated situation, but one that always ends up with the least powerful person taking the brunt here. All right. For listeners who haven't been or aren't from the Philippines, what do we need to know about this country that has been a significant garment producer since the 90s. Is that right? I would say since the 80s. And then there's a decline, actually, in the garment sector in the Philippines since the mid-2000s, especially after the 2008 crisis.

17:44Going further back, there's a history of colonization. I mean, the Philippines was colonized by Spain in the 1500s. And then there was this long and complicated story of the US deciding they wanted to control it. why strategic position resources i think so yeah strategic position in the asia pacific so that's one and yes since you mentioned that so that's why in the garment sector in the philippines there's a lot of u.s brands that are produced there we'll share some links about this because the history of this region and the largely untold story of america as a colonizing power you know america loves to gloss over this and say that they're the land of liberty freeing everybody from tyranny but actually they prop up dictators throughout the world bearing in mind this very long legacy 1500s the spanish taking over the philippines then in 1898 spain handed over the philippines to the americans after signing the treaty of paris which was the start of the u.s government's domination over the philippine economy then there was the japanese taking over then at the end of the second world war america in a different guise but still trying to control it right what do you think the legacy of colonization has on let's just stick on industry in the garment working industry what what is that legacy well the philippines has always produced for u.s a lot of u.s companies and of course they benefit from the low lower wages in the philippines and in southeast asia in general compared to wages that they have to pay in the global north in the 80s 70s to 80s the philippines because of our tradition as well in relation to our colonizers we have a strong tradition of unionism militant unionism but it was really crushed during that time and of course they benefit from workers not being able to organize and collectively bargain and we now have a lot of this export processing zones where it's like totally a different law or labor code that's implemented there like the the usual rights that workers should enjoy it's not found there and these are areas where everything that's produced there is for export to these countries in the 70s in the 80s we have you know very strong union movement in the philippines but it was crushed by not not only like explicitly union busting and like jailing union organizers but also like on a policy level like i think it's the philippines who's one of the first countries in southeast asia which implemented this short-term contracts which effectively takes away the workers ability to form unions inside the factories and without unions of course these companies benefit a lot from not being able to collectively bargain and we have special economic zones which is everything that's produced there is for export to these U.S.

20:45companies, not only garments, but also electronics and all of that. And there's almost like a different labor code that's implemented inside these economic zones. They are much harsher for the workers. Okay. What sort of brands produce that? But I would say it's only now concentrated in a couple export processing zones in central Philippines. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Cebu, Bataan. These are all SEZs. And they produce for up until two years ago, there's still Adidas there. But right now there's Lululemon, Gymshark, Under Armour, mostly US. And in the north, Michael Kors, Kate Spade, Coach.

21:31It's all produced there. In 2022, after the pandemic, around 4 ,000 workers were laid off by garment firms in Cebu. and apparently more than 9 ,000 workers were at that time on temporary layoffs or forced leave that's post-pandemic yeah so you said the industry is shrinking a bit what is the situation like today I heard because I heard they shifted from the Philippines to Cambodia the orders by Adidas shifted there oh so did Adidas pull out yes when was that uh two years ago because of wages because apparently i read i was doing some research and the figure that i came up with was that fob free on board prices out of the philippines were about 15 percent higher than they are in vietnam yeah or in bangladesh yeah they would always say um even the employer association would always say that because it's more expensive to produce in the philippines because not actually because the wages are significantly higher it is a little bit higher than for example cambodia but even other costs like power taxes yeah electricity yeah yeah so adidas pulling out had what sort of impact the workers of course were left jobless a lot of them have been working um i've been to the area by the way um a lot of them have been working for many years and so you know like being laid off it's harder for them to get new jobs especially when you're middle age or something and adidas is claiming that they've paid us the severance that they should pay to the world i mean the factory has you know set out all the severance but we are talking about here like um the bare minimum bare minimum and in the philippine laws under the philippine laws you would only get 13 days of the minimum wage that's like half month so it's still it's not enough for anyone until you until they find another job and there are no other jobs when the industries move out i mean this is such a and when we talk about a just transition or when we think about what it might mean moving forward with automation for example we've got to remember this is real time people's lives if the factory closes and we don't we also know this from the global north if you look at i don't know car manufacturing in the u.s or mining in the north of england when those industries decline or pull out for whatever reason and chase cheaper labor offshore you have whole communities with just nothing yeah it's true it's true um and i think the support should not only be paying them their last month of wage or severance or 13 days yeah or 13 days the support should be how do people actually transition like cope with that and find a continuation of their lives you know how do they continue with their lives but whose responsibility is that i think it should be it should be of course the government should share that responsibility but it is also the responsibility of this brand who at the end of it all profited a lot from this like at the end of it all they're the ones who would profit and continue getting rich.

24:50Nikki, in the fashion and sustainability space, we have become familiar with the phrase waste colonialism, when we talk about brands and consumers actually exporting their waste problem to other countries. So, you know, you donate something to a charity shop in Britain, it's not of a good enough standard to be sold there, your problem gets exported to Ghana. But these patterns of exploitation do follow the lines historic lines of colonization and when we look at who plundered and who gained that is where the responsibility stops i sound quite belligerent because i feel it how about you yeah it's very true um uh it's very true in and you mentioned about waste colonialism because there's a lot of that in the philippines yeah yeah so it's actually started with relief we call it relief clothes like donated for um typhoons yes yes things like that it's saving you but it didn't oh my god no no a lot of it no but that's the idea like oh we're saving them there are poor things they need some tracksuit tops yeah no is yeah and it's still it's still happening right now with um in the philippines we have what they call it's it's like the rejects it's dumped there um and new new stock like dead stock rejects yes i love the way you use the word reject they wouldn't use that word when they were sending it but we call it something else in in the philippines um yeah like factory whatever i can't remember right now but yeah it's there and of course it's not i mean it's not really helpful yeah okay why don't you tell us a bit about your philippines because I always want to make sure that we're not just telling a story of like, oh, this is all the bad news.

26:35What about the beauty and culture of where you grew up? Of course, I'm so proud of our islands. We are separated by seas, by waters, but we also try to be more connected because of that. I must say, even before colonization, we were very proud that we have our own system, you know like many many countries who've been colonized too unfortunately not a lot of it has been retained it's really like just erased by this many centuries but in terms of values i think it's still there and in my culture we're very proud of how we're you know like happy people like really literally happy people even if when there's challenges in the family or as a nation we always find time or find a space to be like just be there for everyone and find joys little joys in everything how did you get into all of this your parents were activists can i ask about your father yeah so both of them are labor organizers actually workers themselves who were organized into unions and become labor organizers themselves in what industry my dad is a in the car manufacturing and my mom is in cigarette tobacco industry yeah is that a big thing in the philippines yes um marlboro philip morris u.s companies of course yes get out yeah she was telling me big tobacco growers no so the growers not there's some in the north but um she used she was in the factory like rolling cigarettes and that's that's philip morris and marlboro in the philippines yeah but that was in the 70s um she's she used to say like there's 16 000 workers of them in the factory and my dad used to work for general motors again american yeah um and in the 70s like i said it's like the peak of the union movement in the philippines so they were both organized they both became full-time labor organizers themselves my mom and my dad both organized garment workers I remember my mom used to tell me about it my dad used to organize Levi's workers because of that they were persecuted and this is not only for them it's like a trend in the Philippines where workers or labor organizers are tagged as part of the communist movement and they would charge them with ridiculous criminal charges just to put them in jail even if they cannot prove it A lot of them, or most of them, get acquitted, but they've already spent, what, six years in jail or more.

29:17Your father was a political prisoner. He was arrested without legal counsel. Yes. And you didn't know where he'd been taken at the beginning. Yeah, at the beginning, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, it's because of his long history in the labor movement. I don't want to put you on the spot about your own family story, but the point here is that it can be dangerous to organize. it is not without its dangers speaking out against power whether that is brand power whether that is government isn't safe and we're so lucky if we live in countries where it is safe yeah i'm always wanting to protect people and not put them on the spot and not you know that you've also got to be careful about what you do say and who you say it to yeah and yet that does underpin this fight for workers rights and that's why we use the word solidarity that's why it's meaningful yeah it's very true um but i think this solidarity is what a lot of these powers fear most that's why they try to really stop that solidarity from being like built and you know you know nikki this story of political imprisonment and putting your personal freedom in danger to speak up for the rights of of workers and your community it's really widespread we've seen it in bangladesh just at the end of last year we have seen prominent union activists arrested yes before the regime changed there but it continues to be dangerous to speak up yes it's true um in southeast asia we have a ccc member organization in myanmar whose all of their staff was arrested recently and in prison because of their organizing work they're doing a really good job and i guess that's why yeah i mean that comes back to the way we began with urgent appeals and this work which is international where you come together to support other members of the network that are going through potentially dangerous circumstances.

31:21I mean, it's really vital stuff. Yes, yes. And it's really important that we get the word out there because, like you said, it's happening everywhere. And sometimes, unfortunately, of course, with everything that's going on in the world, this news in Myanmar and the Philippines could get drowned in everything that's going on. But we need to continue getting the word out there because that's what's that's our only option get the support that we need from everyone because we've touched on some very heavy topics around freedom and safety i do just want to quickly ask you how do we as people who care broadly but also as activist organizations like ccc ensure and protect the safety of workers stories and experiences yeah so like a general operating principle though we do we try to protect the workers by not you know getting their personal information out there we try to anonymize some stories especially if we know that there's risks of them being exposed and retaliation it's also our even our colleagues yeah who might face risks but of course when we get stories out there we also want people to see people to you know realize that oh this is actually true this is real people so there's ways to do that without having to sacrifice their so no like addresses probably names and all that um even on videos and maybe for people on social media who you know like they want to share i think a good like rule of thumb like we say is check if there's any information there that would put them at risk and if not then do share do share even with workers we try to also educate them how they can take photos of their situation without exposing faces and things like that yeah thank you shall we end on what you can do if you bought those anitsuka tiger shoes but if you but if you're listening to this and thinking this is heavy i came here for fashion that's what we do here but actually there is so much about fashion that is political and once you find out about this stuff you can't separate it yeah so if you're feeling powerless and sort of angry about fashion or or just i don't know like you don't know what to do as a consumer if you want to use that word or as a can't think of another word active citizen what would be your advice like you like what you did with your shoes.

34:01Find out what's going on behind those really nice things. There's always a story behind it. That story might be saddening, but you'll also find stories of hope behind those things. And that's really important. Thank you, Nikki. This is perfect. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Wardrobe Crisis. You can find the show notes for each episode over on our website, thewardrobecrisis.com. I hope you've enjoyed the show. I'd love you to help us spread the word. Tell a friend, share on social media, or leave us a rating and review in Apple Podcasts.

34:39It really helps new listeners find us on the app. You can get in touch with us on social media. The show is on Instagram at thewardrobecrisis and I'm on there too. I'm at Mrs Press.