In short
The episode explains how prehistoric “fight or flight” wiring drives panic and pressure in sales calls, and how salespeople can reframe those emotions to perform better.
Guest backgrounds
The transcript names the host as Jack Frubston; no other guest is clearly identified, though “our guests” is mentioned.
Key claims
Fight or flight evolved to protect humans from threats like saber-tooth tigers; in modern sales there’s no real predator, but the response still triggers anxiety. Some people even call in sick to avoid phone calls. Solution: Use CBT-style reframing—acknowledge the emotion, understand why it exists, and reframe cold calling fears (notably: “no one’s ever died from making a cold call”).
Notable examples
“Bush rustling” as the trigger for threat detection; Axl Rose/snail bar joke; cold-calling panic leading to sick days.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExploring the Fight or Flight Response
1:15 to 3:55
Discussion on how our prehistoric wiring affects modern sales performance.
“I'm going to put that on my LinkedIn name.”
Reframing Fear in Sales
3:55 to 5:07
Strategies to reframe fear and anxiety related to sales calls using CBT techniques.
“We have to kick that rational human being into the brain.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Take the ribbon out your head
0:09That's really, really nice. Welcome to the jungle. No, no, no. Welcome to the jungle. We got fun and games. We got everything you want. Axl Rose walks into a bar. Yeah. He says, can I have a beer, please? Mm-hmm. And actually, he's a snail, Axl Rose. Yeah. Yeah. And they say, get out. We don't serve snails. Okay. And he says, come on, mate. Let me have a pint. he's like we don't serve snails and he's like no come on get out right so he chucks a snail out yeah a year later he's back yeah goes up to the bar and he says what do you do that for that's good that's good and uh a mickey mickey mouse is standing in front of the judge and uh the uh the judge says i just don't think it's it's fair you you're you're wanting to divorce mini because she's a bit silly and he went no i said she was fucking goofy ah very good very good all right well listen that's nothing to do what we're talking about today welcome to the jungle i've posed a big question to you you like to hit our guests with big questions i'm gonna hit you with a big question when we look back to our prehistoric wiring and the things we've dragged forward to modern day what are the things that get in the way of us being good salespeople that we're still dragging around because we got a little caveman in our heads yes so the the way that the brain has evolved we still have this fight or flight response which is amazing so many people i remember 22 years old being can i turn this off it was a bit too much rock and roll a bit too much beer on the weekends i'd be like oh my god my fight or flight is always going off i feel anxious all the time and it's there what your only flight a slight uh and and it's there to like protect you okay so we go back to the pathologic era not to be confused with pathological pathologic pathologic no that's it patholic no one more time Pathologic Fuck What is it?
2:22Pathologic It's paleolithic Or I could see the word in my head It's on the first page of the chapter But we go back to the Paleolithic Yeah We go back to the paleolithic Era Era And we have this fight or flight response which was inbuilt in us to work out when we look across the savannah is that what i was testing it your fight off it's totally calm isn't it it's very calm uh to work out whether it was a saber tooth tiger or whether it was just a bush rustling but what you see you'd see the bush rustling it would go off this fight or flight and you'd you'd hopefully you'd run away you wouldn't freeze you'd run away to safety it is there to keep you safe i was just thinking then bush rustling would be is such a good name for a cowboy.
3:16Bush Russell-in. What about Rush Bus-a-lin? Hey, I'm Bush Russell-in. Bush Russell-in sitting on the table. So it's there. It's designed to keep you safe. Now, the issue is... It didn't do it, did it? Fight or flight is so good to know. Yeah, thanks, bro. I'm going to put that on my LinkedIn name. Fight or flight, good. But it's designed. It's designed to keep you safe. But the issue is so many salespeople will be going into sales calls and they're worried. They're worried. They're scared. The first person that picks up the fight or flight kicks in. The blood rushes. But actually, there's nothing to be worried about.
3:55There is no saber-tooth tiger. We have to kick that rational human being into the brain. I know so many people that just call in, not now, but years ago, that would call in sick on a Monday or a Tuesday because they couldn't face picking up the phones or selling or communicating with people. because that fight or flight was so strong. They were panic stationed. Okay. You've done a good job here of laying out the problem. But I know you. I know you pretty well. So Jack. Jack? Jack. Jack. Tell us about the solution. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Give it to me slowly. Okay. Well, the solution is about reframing things and not fighting your fight or flight, accepting it and understanding why it exists i feel like that's one of the first bits that's probably like a cbt technique understanding why these systems are there and what that what they're designed to do acknowledging them and then reframing them one of my favorites you might have never heard me say this before but no one's ever died from making a cold call wow wow groundbreaking stuff put that 10 times in a row post it on linkedin viral content wow remember y 'all try um so that that's it i would i would say reframe everything so whatever the the doubts are the fears that you're having what what that emotion is take it bottle it up and use it as a positive wow amazing and tell us about this little thing over here this little thing that's my bro i've been jack frubston i'm exact i'm saying sales is therapy in all good bookshops by all good bookshops I mean it's on Amazon I'll see you through the window cheer
From the publisher
In Episode 3 of our Trench Tips series, we break down Chapter 3 of Sales Is Therapy: “Welcome to the Jungle.” We all carry prehistoric wiring - and in sales, those old survival instincts can sabotage us.
This episode dives into why fight-or-flight kicks in during cold calls, tough conversations, and high-pressure moments… and how to retrain your brain so you can stay calm, present, and in control. If you’ve ever felt panic dialing, overthinking, or the urge to avoid selling altogether, this one will resonate with you.
Get the book “Sales Is Therapy” here: https://amzn.eu/d/dJsWoXp
What you’ll learn in this episode:
Why your brain reacts to sales like danger
How fight-or-flight shows up in sales conversations
Why panic + fear destroy performance
CBT-style reframing to calm the system
How to turn fear into forward momentum
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