Roast My Cold Call Ep7: Confidence Over Conviction (and Curry Over Pizza)

0:02oh you scared me it's not what it looks like you sleeping on the job i was a little nap It's been on the job because I've not had any caffeine, and I'm wondering if you can do me a dark roast. You want a dark roast? That's what I want. I want to get straight into it. I want to start roasting the calls that are cold. Well, listen. People don't want to hear me and you talk. They want to hear us roast. So why don't we just get the bloody hell into it? Are you ready, Zach Thompson? Sorry, I was born ready. Let me see if I can load something up. Okay. Tell me when I'm in your ear. We can either hang up now or let me have 30 seconds.

0:48Well, okay. If your sales calls, no, I'm not interested. That's fine. Not interested. Can I run it through? No. And if it's not relevant, we can call it there. No. What is it about? Okay. Let's pause there. What do you think about the tone there when they said no? Go back. Go back a second. before I give my opinion. I didn't hear the very first, but... It was a sales call. We can either hang up now or let me have 30 seconds. Well, okay. If your sales calls, no, I'm not interested. That's fine. Not interested. Can I run it through? No. And if it's not relevant, we can call it there. Yeah, what is it about?

1:29Yeah, so I just... Pause. I mean, so far, that's good. he's used the he's used the ledge hasn't he he's got into the conversation but for me there's this i think it's about like keeping this energy up there is this feeling of like don't be so disappointed at the rejection i felt it in his tone there like uh well if it's a sales call no and it was like oh but it is it can i run through it's like no have the conviction be confident um one of our friends used to mock me when whenever whenever i was working from home and i worked in sales many years ago whenever i got a no he'd be like he could hear me saying it through the wall going all right okay you don't want to but all right okay and i'd sound gutted okay whereas it's your job to just sound confident like listen i'm here whether you like me whether you don't whether you want to reject me or you want to take it but like the the the formula there was the bit and he got into the call but i think a bit more confidence that's why i'd say don't remove any disappointment yeah like the the the no i'm not interested on a sales call ah fair enough it sounds like you get loads of these um i tell you what can i fly through it now i promise you if it's if it's not relevant i'll leave you i'll never bother you again sound fair man sounds fair enough exactly exactly but he did he did the good thing of like someone's called the moves are there he called but it sounded like it was a callback it was like oh you have called back a salesperson so I can fly through now or I'll give you the opportunity to hang back up.

2:59I would just say bring a bit more enthusiasm to the call. Are you ready for me to continue? Please. Came across your business and I noticed that you don't have a website for your accountancy. That's pretty much why I called out to offer you a website and some online presence. Yeah, I'm just going to direct you to that because I've already got enough rights to do networking but I don't use a website. And from the sounds of it, it sounds like you're completely full and you're booked till the end of time. Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. Probably one last question. Do you know anyone else that can give a call that is looking for a website or some online presence?

3:50Website at the moment is not very good people use search engine optimization you know social media and that you know connection time. But I'll give you a number if there's anybody before some other small small clients who do website or I mean they want but they're looking for something cheap or whatever. I don't even bother to recommend them. Okay you said people use Google for. Let's pause there. Let's have a mid-time cup of tea. And by cup of tea, I mean a roasty coffee. Dak Thompson, what are you listening to? I think the tone probably is it's weird, isn't it? Because the tone, it sounds like he's ringing accountants, maybe?

4:34So actually, maybe the tone is a good tone for accountants. I don't want to kind of go in too much. It does have that air of like, I've done a million of these and I hate them. So maybe the tone. The interesting thing, we'd recommend this problem menu thing. You don't necessarily have to do it, but you have to always keep in mind that it does need a problem to work. So he goes in for, I've noticed you don't have a website, so that's basically what I've given you a call. So there is no problem menu there. Now, if you're looking for an example of what that might be, I had a little look online and saw that you don't have a website.

5:14Normally when I'm speaking to accountants, they typically want a website because of wanting to look really professional to potential customers, wanting to attract the right types of customers, so not tire kickers who perhaps never convert, or there's areas they want to, and blah, blah, blah, right? You get into the problem menu. Now, the second bit after this that was interesting, so he goes into the website, and the guy's like, I don't really need a website. And he goes, oh, right, I'm guessing you couldn't possibly take another new client then. And it's just, I've seen this a lot. So this disqualifying sandlery thing is good.

5:49People use it and get good results out of it. I know. But the most common space where you get no results out of it is where the other person has to think first. So, you know, just being like, it's a sales call. You probably don't even like sales calls, do you? They're probably going to go, no, I'm fine. Thanks. Like there's a reason that you have to think of it. There's a choice there. So disqualifying statement. So to get someone to think a bit might sound like, do you mind if I ask you one last question before I let you go? Yes. If someone came looking for you and they wanted to know more about you, what would they do then?

6:29Oh, and suddenly you're starting to uncover, well, they'd have to ring up. They'd have to, and I'll play this through with me a little bit. So they ring up and maybe you're busy with another client or something. How would they get information then? Oh, then they'd miss out. Right. And then what do you think would happen when they go and work with another accountant and you can play the situational game where they've had to think more about the process i'm not against the disqualifying i just think everyone uses it quite lazily there's other bits but jack you might have a couple of bits you want to chime in on no i agree i think you i think you are up with the the laziness i think it's a case of if you're i think this is where people confuse cold calling if you're if your thought process with cold calling is it's needle in a haystack I know there are people that are out there looking for websites.

7:14You're probably not going to believe that I'm going to say this. I would suggest just cold email over cold calling. Do you know what I mean? Blast 1 ,000 emails. Hi, do you need a new website? You'll probably get one in 2 ,000, 3 ,000, maybe. And then that's it. That's the numbers game. But there is a numbers element to cold calling. But your job is to find the people that have the problems and then test to see if they're motivated. I think the search engine optimisation thing was really interesting, and he picked up on it. Let's see where he takes it up. I think he's going to say it. Yeah, I was going to pick up on this.

7:45Yeah, I've gone back a little bit. Let's see. Well, you know, search engine optimisation, you know, social media and that, you know, connections and... Hmm. Yeah. But you... I'll give you a number if there's anybody... There were some other small, small clients who... to website or... There's your referral, mate. They're looking for something cheap or whatever. That's only important to recommend. Okay. You said people use Google for finding accounts. You don't really show up much on Google since you don't have a website. Yeah, no. At the moment, I'm not done anything. Pause. I'm going to pause there.

8:25Did you see that sharp inhalation of breath, Zach Thompson? I did. I did. What did that tell you? Well, it's something. You know, there's a phrase in sales. and and it's actually you do this a lot it's don't don't tell somebody their baby is ugly and i know that you always say my son's bald and he's not really my son whatever but what what has he done there what has he done there if we're thinking about like don't tell people their baby is ugly he's he's literally said yeah but if people do that they won't find you will you fucking twat how how would you so let's imagine that you are the let's call you the sales sausage machine i'm going to take the meat and i'm going to put it into you how are you going to churn it out so so you do that the right way yeah i'll be like oh thank you for that very nicely i'll give them a try do you want to ask you something just while i've got you hmm play this out with me yeah yeah yeah of course you mentioned you mentioned a lot of people that you're speaking to dealing with search engine optimization at the moment i suppose i'm maybe i'm a bit confused so search engine optimization let's just say someone went into google and looked for accountancy practice in x area whatever area it is in what what would happen then well they'd uh the the ones with the top reviews would would come up on the first page of google okay but then i mean it's slightly uncomfortable obviously we we do the search here but then because you haven't got a website maybe they'd not see you straight away so i'm i'm i getting mixed up here what was what do you think what i don't have a website wait do you sell websites yeah yeah there's a bit of like struggle there's a bit of like playing the idiot like struggling with it stuttering with it like am i missing something i'm not really getting the bit and he might rush in to help there exactly and i've got a question for you zach thompson yeah why did you get so uncomfortable when i called you the sales sausage machine because i know the connotation it has it comes with it comes with a hefty responsibility and a high price tag i'll tell you that right let's see where this seo conversation goes so uh what do you do are you a programmer what do you do you just a website builder uh i build websites and i do the uh i put people on notice on search engines so I do SEO and websites yeah I was more I think this was more of a follow-up call now that I look at it yes because you didn't say that then you weren't interested.

11:24I just wanted to kind of follow up. Are you still not interested or is it something... No, no, no. Like I said, I don't need because it's so networking. Word of mouth, right? And are you in Leicester or where are you from? No, it's my own business. I don't really... I'm not an investor. Okay, I think it's in... If you're not in Leicester, Leicester is a more diverse city and then people... What's happening here? are you in less are you in less are you in less i'm not an investor oh right okay uh i think that really tickled me there's one rule that we always say we like calls like who took control of that conversation he did in a way that i can usually role play that with people and usually get people quite quick on that because he took control of that conversation in quite a soft way which i think is more often not the reality what people tend to role play for is that like well where you call it what what price is it you took it really softly yeah it was all right what do you do then are you a website or or you the programmer um where are you based oh right let's oh that's quite a dive it just it just suddenly just unravels without you realizing but the you've been talking for nearly three minutes there there's still no problem so the so in theory like if i was training our guys the call hasn't actually started yet no exactly and i think it's like you could have just easily taken back control by asking a few questions.

12:50I'm really excited to see where this goes because it looks like there's another three minutes. I don't know if it's a few calls rolled into one, but let's see. Two information, they ask each other, right? And just get your business like that. So I'm really full at the moment. So there's no need to advertise. I get a lot of calls from India, right? Cheap ones to go. But another thing is I don't want to give them access to my website they can do anything. Yeah, I understand. You mentioned that you do go network. With all these cameras going on or whatever. So there's another thing I don't want to give anybody.

13:25I get so many calls and so many emails from India. Cheap calls. Yeah, yeah. But if I don't see any difference then I don't want to risk it. I told people that I don't need you and if I give you access and something happens then i put more stress and more headache then right now i'm at peace

13:50sorry sorry you mentioned that because you can't upload anything until i give you access my website login and all that oh okay it sounds like you've been one one south african did he messed up also he changed my logos and everything but if i do i'll give you a moment i'll give you I'll keep, what I'll do, I've got them on my desk, so I'll just update that. And then it'll be more small clients coming, or some selling dresses and all these things. They want a website. Do you also do the payment facilities on the website, where they can, you know, buy stuff, put in a basket and then pay? Can you do that often?

14:38Yeah, we can look into that, but it sounds like there's a reason you asked that. Is that a lot of your clients are retail shops? No, not retail, they sell online. Oh, sell online, okay. They sell online. They want to do a website where they advertise their products and then click, put in a basket, from basket, go to payment. And then the payment either Google or whatever. They want to click that and the payment is done. they get an email and all that goes into the account or where it goes. We can set up a website that does that also. But in your case it sounds like networking and word of mouth brings in all the work.

15:26That disqualifying thing again. It's networking but then someone will say okay I need a bias. Then you know, they will search, you know, so that was another thing, you have to put Google search, then you know, go to the website and then from you know, from beginning to end, some of my clients want. So that is, they will click, purchase and what you call, pay. Okay. And then delivery, that's another issue. Okay and in your case you're not really interested in a website because of what a mark brings in all the work. Yeah yeah yeah. Okay and if I told you that the website can bring you in more work rather than you going to networking events would that be?

16:17I don't have the space capacity at the moment. I have more stuff. You get my point? Yeah yeah okay I understand, I understand. Yeah, then at most I have to. Because we are going across, but we are okay at the moment. I put my stuff on, then, then. Is it okay if I just call back, like, another three months time to see where you're at? It's just if you're still not interested. Yeah, just check. I just mentioned that it is a follow-up call. Yeah, yeah, it's a follow-up call, yeah. Can I just ask one last question? Yeah. What's your favourite pizza topping? What's your favourite pizza topping? My pizza?

17:00Yeah, pizza. Or do you like curry?

17:06The ideal curry or the pizza? Yeah, pizza topping. Yeah, the flavor. Well I don't eat pizza most of the time. Oh, okay. Once in a while. Once in a while. So I'll just say you're a curry person. You only eat curry. yeah i'm a credit person okay then samir have a nice day you too bye oh i do love this job i do love this job right

17:42it all got a bit strange did it or not mate i've gone giggly because it was just it was a bit bizarre towards the end it was like there was so many like there was there was breadcrumbs there to follow he he was saying i don't want a website but then we probably uncovered the real root cause of why he didn't want a website because there's a behavior thing of like yeah there's a fear is it that he doesn't want a website or is he scared of giving the wrong person access to his website he kept also saying like i don't want to give people access to my website but did he have website i don't know that was like the whole bit of like the behavior and yeah i think there's maybe something in exploring the we had a guest on the podcast didn't we this week he was talking about the way people buy from i've been thinking like this since he said it there's the problems that it would solve and there's also the goals that would you'll be able to accomplish so if you're not getting them on the problems maybe you're going to get them on but if you did have a website what other things you think you'd be able to accomplish by having a website and you can sort of look ahead past the risk it's a bit like in um i can't remember cbt or something like that like the behavioral therapy they say don't imagine yourself public speaking imagine yourself after you've finished public speaking like the bit after it try and throw your mind like forward to create some distance from the actual event so you're still moving forward but like past the event so let's imagine you did have someone in place that was building a website for you and you got over the risk part what what what things would be what things we'd be able to achieve with a really smart website like it's getting people to think in that way rather than i don't really understand what was drug what was right up there and that that disqualifying thing i don't know if you i hear it all the time i think those son those son la boys have got a lot to answer for rather than like like this is why we push the therapy thing like can i get someone to open up and talk rather than just, okay, so it sounds like you don't need more people.

19:43It sounds like you're too busy. It sounds like you couldn't take off. It's like it gets to a point where that guy was quite nice with you. A lot of the time, people, if you're having a lot of short calls and they're going because you're disqualifying, disqualifying, disqualifying, that should be it. I think we definitely have to just comment on the last bit, Zach. What's your favorite pizza topping? Now, as somebody that we've both coached, julio the the annoying cold caller and i don't think he'll he'll hate me saying this i gave him that idea like you i was like you've got to ask something weird at the end because i always remember the story you say it someone in your team like okay brilliant when i call you back i want to make sure that it's memorable so what's something only your wife knows or what's the secret from childhood and it's like leading with that personality so you're becoming memorable if that's not your personality you can't just take the same question and say watch because it lands the way it did that's it that's a really good because i think like whether it's julio or benjamin dennehy or whatever people learn the exact script rather than like seeing the the move you know what i mean yeah there's a thing in like guitar playing where it'd be like don't just learn john mayer says it about like don't just learn slow dance in the burning room learn like what key it's in and why that lick works and why it makes you feel that way and stuff and then try and do something with the concept rather than copying the script because you you go in watch for a pizza might land obviously it lands better for gilo because his whole thing is like i'm a italian guy yeah all right right he got to a quid conversation like are you doing like do you like curry yeah a bit i think so you're in leicester i'm an investor you you're a curry guy what is going on right i've enjoyed this i didn't know where that was gonna end up that was good roast my cold call we'll be back soon thank you zach thompson bye guys