In short
How brand perception can hinge on personal experience—specifically whether you like your postman—and why marketing matters by redirecting attention amid informational asymmetries.
Guest background
Rory Sutherland (marketing/brand strategist).
Key claims
Royal Mail research found attitudes were polarized and largely determined by feelings about the individual postman; “brand quake” moments can make people rethink their relationship with a business; marketing is needed because most good service is invisible (people notice missing/late items more than the thousands that arrive); current tech-influenced definitions of marketing are oversimplified.
Notable examples
Royal Mail customers defending the service because their postman is “absolutely fantastic”; the “6,000 letters arrive” vs “one missing” visibility effect.
Guests
Rory Sutherland; Alex Batchelor (marketing director of Royal Mail) is referenced as conducting the research.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Royal Mail's Brand Perception
0:00 to 0:41
Explore how people's perceptions of Royal Mail are influenced by personal experiences with their postman.
“Alex Batchelor, who is the marketing director of Royal Mail, they did loads and loads of research about the brand, you know, Royal Mail's brand attributes.”
The Concept of 'Brand Quake'
0:41 to 1:26
Learn about the 'brand quake' phenomenon and its impact on consumer perceptions.
“I think there's an organization which calls something a brand quake.”
The Importance of Noticing the Everyday
1:26 to 2:24
Understand the significance of marketing in addressing informational asymmetries in consumer awareness.
“because you notice the letter that goes missing, but you don't notice the 6 ,000 that arrive.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Alex Batchelor, who is the marketing director of Royal Mail, they did loads and loads of research about the brand, you know, Royal Mail's brand attributes. And they can never really make sense of it because people's attitude to Royal Mail seemed to be like completely random and polarized. And then they thought of one bit of research. And they did one extra bit of research, discovered your attitude to Royal Mail as a brand was almost entirely predicated, not exclusively, almost entirely predicated on whether you like your postman. And my argument is that in brand terms, the personal actually carries much more weight.
0:40There's much more. I think there's an organization which calls something a brand quake. In other words, I can't remember who coined that phrase. It might be the people in category pirates. but a brand quake is where you create a moment where it's so remarkable that you actually rethink your entire relationship and perception of the whole business i absolutely adore uh our postman i think he's absolutely fantastic uh and as a result i've you know if anybody criticizes royal mail i'll actually leap to their defense um and actually let's be honest i've never had anything go missing in i've lived in the same place for 20 years i've never had a few things are late I've never had anything go missing, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.
1:25Now, there are a lot of things, by the way, where companies are really good, but in a way that's invisible, because you notice the letter that goes missing, but you don't notice the 6 ,000 that arrive. That's one of the reasons you need marketing, because the world is full of informational asymmetries. Really, really important to know that, because there are things we notice and there are things we don't notice. There are things we talk about, there are things we don't talk about. And the world is absolutely plagued with these informational asymmetries. And one of the reasons you need marketing is to actually redirect people's attention sometimes to the things they're ignoring.
2:00Because they're not very salient. You know, the fact that your post arrives, nobody ever says, you know, amazing this morning, all my letters arrive. And there are loads of reasons you need marketing. And the definition of marketing that's sort of prevalent today is really a completely mythical oversimplification created by the tech industry to effectively maximize its own influence and opportunities to sell.
From the publisher
Rory Sutherland reveals a simple truth about branding: your attitude toward a company isn’t shaped by its logo or marketing - it’s shaped by people.
In this clip, Rory shares a Royal Mail insight that changed how he sees branding. After extensive research, they found that people’s opinions of Royal Mail depended almost entirely on one thing… Whether they liked their postman.
That discovery exposes a deeper truth about marketing and behavioral science: trust is personal, not corporate.
Brands live and die through human interaction: not data, algorithms, or slogans.
Rory explains why marketers must focus less on communication efficiency and more on emotional connection. The “postman effect” proves that great branding starts with real people doing ordinary things well - every single day.
Have you ever loved a brand because of one great experience? Let us know in the comments.
Subscribe for more Rory Sutherland insights on behavioral science, branding, and creativity.