AI Is Coming for Bitcoin’s Energy | Michael Dunworth

40:36Like it feels like all the scientists are related and stuff, like somehow, like that's just cooked. I don't even know, but it's a weird string of coincidences, let's say. I don't think it's related. There was two parts to the question. It was, do I think the scientists are related? To something to do with this like energy type Manhattan project. Oh, no, no, no. So I don't know. I don't know. I think there's a bigger hand at playing, some bigger hand, bigger story that we're not privy to. But I do know the Manhattan Project just sold, like where that location was, I think it's sold now to Radiant technology, which is Radiant, if you're not familiar with them, they are building micro-nuclear reactors.

41:17So one megawatt, the size of a shipping container. Imagine that. Hey, guys, fuck, we've got all these Bitcoin miners. What do we do? Call Radiant. They'll dump a megawatt in the middle of wherever you are and it's deliverable from a semi-trailer. So that's their whole like value problem. And they bought the Manhattan Project site to pump these like factories out. And I think kind of the approach first is like, you know, military. So if we go into the middle of the desert, we can drop one of these things and we got one megawatt, which is like, oh, great. We can power our PlayStation 5s or not PlayStation 5 in the military.

41:51They've got real weapons, but you know what I mean? Like they can power all this stuff really easily. So it's sort of like a grab and go, like it's like a portable charger, but it's a one megawatt facility. So those guys and that whole nuclear initiative, that will start becoming a thing. Because if everyone is trying to figure out energy, nuclear is the first cab off the rank, but everyone's got all these cock blocks in place where it's like, oh, we made some law in 1993 that said we won't do that. that's nice your farmers can't farm food and your whole civilization is eroding through plastics and preservatives it's like maybe we should figure that energy thing out a bit um and so i think yeah yeah when i when i mentioned the like exponential curve of energy that's really what i was thinking i think these small modular reactors like all the red tape that stops them from really being able to be deployed that's just going to get ripped straight off because they're gonna there's gonna be a huge energy shortage literally like they're just gonna be like this is foolish we we have like a hundred percent a hundred percent yeah and these these companies like oklo are just gonna like put one of those reactors in the middle of nowhere and you just have a data center there like that's a hundred percent gonna happen yeah that's literally it they'll find the most optimal ground with the most because one of the things the balance is weather right so you look at all the servers the most of the servers in north america i think one of the most popular spots is vegas because fault lines and all that sort of weather conditions and stuff it makes it the most reliable see these guys have to think about everything they're like hmm but if we go to there what's earthquake insurance cost there oh it's 20 more far we can't take and it's like it's but that's the shit they have to think about like oh did you get the earthquake insurance no i only got flood and river insurance like they literally have to think about everything like that so it's like it's pretty wild but yeah it'll be they'll be able to choose the most safe places.

43:46So harm from natural disasters and then just dump it there and be like, all right, boys, sweet as. Yeah. And then get going. Because all they need, they're constrained by nothing. All they need really is like a river for water and a big empty space. Basically. Like, yeah, it just becomes like a super turbine. And I mean, that's all that, like, have you seen some of those solar farms in China? Like these things are monsters. And all it is, it's just a big tower in the middle with water in it and all a massive, massive thing of mirrors. And they're all just reflecting the sun, right? It's the sun at the water, which steam turns the turbine, blah, blah, blah.

44:24Unreal. Yeah. It's crazy though, just to think this world that we're a few years away from. I don't even know what you're meant to do to prepare for this. Is there anything you can do? Genuinely, I don't know. I think the best thing, the most valuable skills, I think, will be somewhere at the intersection of physics and maths. Because maths will be the algorithms, the robots and the data and all that sort of side. And then the physics will be I'm, you know, a propulsion research expert or whatever it is. But everyone is trying to figure out that silicon moment. So before, so we didn't have, always have silicon chips, I don't think.

45:05We kind of had these old things that became silicon chips. The transistor, I think it's called. The transistor, it was a big like step function moment in computation, I think. We'll have one of those moments. Everyone wants to be the company to make the breakthrough. You know, some company is going to figure out over unity, which is a term there's patents on it and stuff. It's how to basically put energy in and get more energy out than you put in. All these kind of things, cold fusion. There are all these sort of sci-fi ideas, but remember there's eight and a half billion people on the planet and everyone hasn't been motivated to figure this out.

45:43The moment everyone gets any kind of motivation to figure it out, then it's all guns blazing. Like once the carrot's there, hey, if we get more energy or better energy. And then you've got things like even like cross-pollinating this into politics with like the Strait of Hormuz. It's like now that's just a total shit sandwich. and all the world is feeling it. It's like cutting off the oxygen supply of the planet. And it's like if they start taking Bitcoin and we, this is just hypothetical, right, but let's say they do start in some native open currency out of principle or whatever. Well, they have been doing.

46:23That's what they have been doing, right. And so that trend, like if we lean on that a bit more, then you get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to. Because if they don't, like that's their fastest way to pay their bills. You know, it's funny. We talked about this as well, but Iran, the central bank has been mining Bitcoin for five years. And they've had, so all they said, they go, no, no, no. You can't have Bitcoin exchanges in Iran. It's like, what? You can't have Bitcoin mining either? No, no, no. Mine all you want.

46:53I'm buying from you though and no one else. It's like, damn, how heavy are those bags over there, dude? and so it's pretty crazy because Iran's like front and center obviously they've been very front and center for a long time in different parts of the world but right now like you're looking at someone that's basically been mining DCAing Bitcoin from all the miners in Iran now what are the miners in Iran I mean up until like 18 months ago or two years ago they had three to five percent of the daily hash rate that means every single so this isn't El Salvador or buying a coin every day or whatever.

47:27This is like, nah, bro, I'm putting energy into the earth for this shit. And they're getting 5 % or 3 % back. So, I mean, it's pretty wild. But, geez, that is like if that place, if that straight of all moves only operated on some like international globally accessible currency, that sounds so tagline-y. Geez, if only we had an international globally accessible supply verifiable country. But literally, if they did kind of go that route, that'd be absolutely insane you'd see the government come in and basically be like all right michael michael saylor your bags are ours you're the chairman of the ship but we're taking 10 we need a float so we can buy oil it'd be like all right cool like you know they do that with intel or whatever um i wouldn't see it very not not a fast stretch it doesn't feel like a fast yeah i want to i'll know what you think in terms of because the bitcoin adoption at nation state level has been mainly like, I guess, pariah type nations like Iran.

48:25I'm sure China would be mining Bitcoin. I'm sure Russia have. El Salvador obviously saw this like asymmetric bet that they made. Bhutan is the coolest one because they've just been mining a ton of Bitcoin and I mean, they weren't really telling anyone until it came out. But how does this go from being that type of nation to, you know, what we think of as like the Western developed countries, the US, the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sorry to interrupt. That's 100 % right. Like, it's just like, how did Silvergate become the biggest, you know, Bitcoin bank? How did Silicon Valley bank? They bit off of a thing, a niche, I mean, it's a bad example to use now.

48:59But at the time, they went to a really small pond of opportunity and were like, let's try and grow this pond massively. So I think right now, like, you'll have countries that can flip other countries where they're like, just like you've got friends that invest in Bitcoin and now they're wealthier than other people that might have been better, more successful than them. So I think that's a thing. I think Luxembourg just bought some or put 1 % of their sovereign wealth fund in, I think, like four days ago or something. But you've got to remember, and this is one thing that a lot of people don't realize, is the world is kept together a lot, I think, with networking and relationships.

49:39So I'll give you an example is Apple, they've got$240 billion worth of cash or something let's say it's 200 billion just a round number okay cool what oh man imagine if they put it all into bitcoin that'd be so hectic okay cool you put it all into bitcoin what's your roi i get 12 that's mad the reason why we did let's say mr apple it's like oh well that's cool you got your 12 are you your bags pump great okay well we got fuck all out of it we've got 12 gains that's fine But because we don't store any money at Bank of America anymore, we have no supply chain insurance. We have no invoice factoring.

50:16We have no company cards. We have no white label branded Apple cards. We have no supply chain financing either. So the money, they're not idiots. These guys are actually the smartest in the room. And if they're not putting it into Bitcoin, there's usually a reason why. They like money, believe me. And they probably like money even more than you and I do. And like, we don't like, we like sort of trying to change it. But the idea is like, every, like Apple would be like, hey, Bank of America, we want 60 day terms on our supply chain financing when we buy a billion dollars worth of shit from wherever.

50:51They're like, cool, we'll finance that for you. But we want you guys to have at least 50 billion in our proprietary money market fund. Okay, great. Cool. We'll park that there. You're going to give us our four to 6%. Don't worry, we can write that off. We can call that inflation, blah, blah, blah. Great. You've got our supply chain financing. Cool. Now our orders aren't late. Now when we make an announcement and we say we're going to start shipping these products in two weeks' time, you can go to Apple and get those products shipped. One of the biggest disconnects between most companies' performance versus sales is not that they're bad salesmen.

51:26It's that they're bad supply chains. So Samsung announces the, you know, whatever, Sony announces a new phone or a new this or you that it's like four months between the announcement and shipped and like in your hand is where apple is usually like you can find them at the store next wednesday from next wednesday onwards because they keep that hype and that supply chain like very well in tune so when i see these companies like there's a reason why they've got they're sitting on their hands when it comes to bitcoin they're not jumping on it straight away the mega mega guys because they're usually they've got their hand in 500 pies you can't be one of the biggest companies in the world you can't get 200 billion dollars cash in your bank without having a couple of friends somewhere and a lot of relationships to uphold so there's that now will the countries do it i think if there's a carrot for international sort of sovereignty then yes they will um but right now it feels like charity it feels like it almost feels like ethereum lost to chat gbt like web 3 lost to chat gbt almost like they lost talent they lost developers they lost enthusiasm mind share and everything yeah the hype was a huge one 100 and so it's just like oh it's a shinier object whatever and it's like oh you know like the woody meme where he doesn't want to play with the doll anymore and he's throwing it out it's kind of like that but that for that was for like developer enthusiasm but like energy stuff, Bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation, which Bitcoin has been the number one.

52:57Like I look at Bitcoin, its goal should be 100 % total addressable market of energy consumption on Earth. Like whatever energy we produce, that's its North Star. How much energy is not being committed to Bitcoin right now? And then you like work backwards from that. But I mean, I just don't think if the hype is going around Bitcoin or it's been distracted or overshadowed, then so will the actions taken you know so now there might be two three people or four people in a boardroom and each of these sovereign wealth funds two of them are saying we need to invest massively in data centers for ai so that sam altman and the crew will come and build out in you know our country the other is saying we need to start acquiring bitcoins and blah blah blah and that whole narrative just has no water in it so the guys that the advisors to these people pulling the actual decision, like making decisions, they're going to have people saying, well, these are our options.

53:53And there's not really enough meat on the bone to make Bitcoin a core option right now. Like I'm not saying that I don't think they will. I'm just saying like if I was imagining them and strategically trying to, you know, allocate where are we going to put our money, do we put 1 % into Bitcoin or do we put that 1 % into building for the future, which is AI data centers? And there's a pretty easy case to make for the data centers and it's a harder one to sell for the Bitcoin. Yeah, no, I agree with that. But how do we get that narrative back? Focus, focus, focus, focus. Like the biggest thing right now that I've seen is distraction, like massively.

54:33And I like, I just know that Bitcoin superpower for the longest time is not being the everything machine. It's actually the opposite of that. It's having one clear message because Bitcoin's only going to get, if I got one sentence at the conversation where it matters. And if that sentence is confusing, broken, fragmented, or different to what everyone else thinks, then that's problematic. So it's like, you know, Bitcoin, it's the hardest money mankind's ever made. Like that's the summary. That's the too long, didn't read. Everything else is noise. And it's not like, I need this because of my bags.

55:07It's like, no, because Bitcoin doesn't have a leader. And when you don't have a leader, you're a distributed system that's trying to move forward altogether, right? So you're trying to move forward. When people are going in different directions, it spins. It's like having, you know, an air turbine blowing around in a circle because it's not going forward because it's just doing the same thing or it's being pulled in different directions. So I think like the biggest concern is focus. And so like, there's been a lot of messages for Bitcoin. Like it's like, okay, Bitcoin, the energy thing, Bitcoin, the energy finder bitcoin the uh the uncensorable bitcoin the hard money bitcoin that the and it's sort of like oh is this the corporate treasury token now and so like i think one of the biggest risks actually is in this ai world if people need bitcoins they will just take them because they should take them if they can like if i'm a government my country's going to shit i'll be like okay who's got all the coins okay we'll take them and so this is one of the side effects that we're seeing now the symptoms uh yeah side effects of the treasury company boom so the treasury company stuff which i've spoken to you about i think has so much potential is so much potential to add heaps of value to give lots of exposure to lots of different people but at the same time what does that mean well it means a lot of grifting so i know people like right now people so many people my phone have been ringing about i've lost so much money in this or that or that I'm like, oh, they're like, I thought this was Bitcoin.

56:42It's not Bitcoin. It's like, I was like, oh no, like these horror stories. And it's like, we, while we're doing these treasury things, so like, and I'm not, I'm not bagging anything, but I'm just saying like, this is one of the, it's a very real risk. Like I study security and I'm trying to like, look at what are the things that can fuck our bags? Well, one of the big problems is because they're publicly traded companies, that's great as a vehicle for raising capital. So if you're on the company, awesome, share liquidity, buy and sell through all the exchange brokerages, awesome. Now, the problem with that is you have regulations that you need to keep those coins or that primary asset secured to a certain level of degree, like certain degree.

57:22Now, that means you sweep these coins into a custody service. So what happens is Coinbase's ownership of assets is going from 6 % total supply, 9%, 11, 14, 16, 19. And, oh, if every company becomes a treasury company, great, great, we're at 30 % now. What do we want to do? How are we going to get this to 50 %? You know, and that's a very real, honest, fair critique of, well, what then? And most people say, oh, that's just paranoia. No, it's not paranoia. I'm thinking for the people that can't think here. There's no voice. The person, my kids, your kids, whatever, they don't have a voice to say in the matter.

58:06And it's like, yeah, we probably could have avoided doing that. And it's sort of like the same way we could have avoided, you know, like asbestos or something like that. We'd be like, ugh, fuck that. Like, that's terrible. Oh, it's the best thing ever. Look at this. I'm drinking water. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What are the second order, third order effects? And can we evaluate whether this has been successful or not yet? So I think that's the real risk is not being focused it's the same way ethereum kind of got chopped up by solana because ethereum was the proof of stake network but it's also the smart contract network but it's also the um the burning the gas that that new model they brought out which was burning the ethereum tokens like proof of stake and burn so what happened was it was trying to compete with Bitcoin on being a better sound money.

58:57And so they said, well, why don't we shrink the supply when we're paying gas? Okay. So it's more sound money than Bitcoin because the supply is actively shrinking. Okay. That's cool. It's proof of stake. So you earn money. So that's cool. But what it's really done in the whole process is say, I don't know where I'm going, but I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. And the reality is that basically Ethereum lost to Solana in these kind of conversations because Ethereum was at war with itself, kept changing. And the premise of the supply curve is not that it goes down.

59:31Like it's like, oh, the supply is decreasing. Like Ethereum shows Bitcoin supply and then shows it being like even worse. It's predictable. That is what everyone wants. Exactly. So the more you try and change for something the more unpredictable you look or become and now forget remember we're all stressed out everyone has got a million and one pieces of content all trying to enter their brain and you're trying to tell me you change what for what yeah nah next you're just like the ai photo of the cat smelling its own bum or like it's all just this is ephemeral and it's not really that there's no uh discipline or like kind of focus behind it and so that's why ethereum's there like yeah we're better than Bitcoin.

1:00:11We're also proof of stake like Solana. And now it's like, okay, Solana is that Bitcoin is really good for that. And Ethereum is still trying to find its home base in certain ways. Don't get me wrong. Ethereum is actually, you know what a lot of people don't think about? Ethereum has a higher density of self-custody probably than any other network, including Bitcoin by light years. So Ethereum by default, if you ever use a smart contract, you have to be holding your own keys. So they're out of the box sort of behavior for anyone in Ethereum or Solana whatever is holding your own keys because they're like i can't interact with the chain without it which is a double-edged sword because people are only doing that so they can go and gamble in the casino yeah but it's like it doesn't stop it being true yeah well literally it's a good boy let me out i want to rug myself okay dude it's like they're rushing to the casino right and that's a thing right so we know that there's a lot of distractions and then most of them aren't really going to add the amount of value that just a frozen, scarce, predictable money supply could.

1:01:14And when you think about it, like, oh, hey, man, what are you working on? I'm trying to fix money. It's like, oh, okay, well, oh, you're probably not going to care much about my calendar app then. Yeah, it's like, nah, there's levels to this. I don't give a shit about your calendar app, bro. And it's like, then it's like, oh, fuck. So what problem do we want to solve? Like if you're a Bitcoin, it's like, no, no, no. We've got to make it so everyone can like bet on stuff using Bitcoin. It's like, oh yeah, that's cool. You know that there's 8 billion people and close to 1 billion of them are in poverty.

1:01:48Money to them is the worst thing in existence. And you have a seat at the table right now to help that. No, no, no, no, no. This is way better though. Oh, this really cool thing that I saw on this TikTok once like three months ago. It's like. You're killing me. Killing me. Because we've got kind of like, I really think, and I don't want to sound like Eminem, but we kind of get one shot on goal at this. I totally agree with that. It's times like this is almost like these weird eclipse moments in life where we just get that one fleeting moment to change gears. We don't, we can't do it every day.

1:02:23We won't get a chance in another 200, 300, 400 years, whatever. but we do get that chance today which is a very it's a very big privilege to be able to be in such an interesting time because it's funny because i mean i grew up thinking like oh this is shit like the stars are all like we don't have tech to go to other galaxies yet so i'm not going to say shit and then it's like oh and everyone's already built all the mcdonald's on like over earth like it's already finished it's like great what am i here for there but now you're like well shit i didn't know i was going to be right in the middle of ai bitcoin energy shit it's like it's like it is definitely the most interesting time dude it's like i'm i'm not joking now i literally am to the point where i'm like okay yeah yeah i must be on the truman show now i i wake up and i read a headline i'm like is this the onion it's not the what the fuck is going on i'm like dude it's like like the trump stuff the other day he's like yeah yeah eviscerate the civilization i'm like what crazy that's awfully uh okay cool and then like and you've literally got like active warships just sitting there like cock blocking everyone but it's like what i think has been a fantastic lesson for like all of us on earth is sovereignty we're all learning everyone is trying to withdraw their money from the bank right now the bank of humus let's say and they're realizing, wow, I can't actually get it when I ask for it.

1:03:51Shit, how much money do I have in my bank account? Oh, you've got 31 days worth of money left. It's like, wow, shit. I really need to make sure that I can always have a couple of days and then you start saving money and you start being better with it. But in this case, I think it'll become energy. And it's almost like this straight-of-all-moves blocking situation. I don't even know if it's open or closed, to be honest, dude. It's so hard to keep up with it. It changes every day. I don't know what's happening right now. idea and it always changes in line with the stock market opening and closing by the way yeah yeah just fyi the announcements are always on friday at 4 30.

1:04:25um but you know it is quite it is crazy but i think i think we're going to kind of get to a point now where i think it's coming into the zeitgeist or the consciousness where we're all on the same team and we sort of need to realize that pretty quickly like you know it's not america versus iran and iran versus america versus china know it's like what the fuck are you talking about bro like they are really good at manufacturing you are really good at something else Russia is really good at something else Australia is really resourceful mate we're all in a fucking world group project I don't know anyone else in the universe I don't know if anyone else on this planet does but as far as I know I'm stuck on a rock in the middle of nowhere and I don't know any other neighbors it's like you know I may as well not take a shit on my neighbor's doorstep like obviously that feels like a foolish effort but like okay that's how we're doing it like but yeah i would be mad if we could all get on the same page and i think like with energy hardships and also ai uh ai is forcing alignment on a lot of things because it's basically giving no no alternatives like it's like what should we do about this maybe we shouldn't it's like no there is no graphic design jobs paying 150 grand anymore i'm sorry now there might be but you pay for the guy that goes yeah we're gonna do the lettering and the font styling so it's all in perfect ratios and this is the new we're actually going to do on a typewriter pardon we're actually going to do on a typewriter literally that's how original you have to be now because otherwise it's like you're not really kind of um adding any value and people have got a graphic designer's got to compete with a one dollar a day subscription to claude that can do 95 % now can it do it as well no does the world need it to be done at the level that you would card no and it's like the world just needs it done like yeah and because we're so time poor we are all going for that route well what's the what's the easier way what's the summary listen to this people now when booking like even like so uh like let's say you're arranging something everyone's using ai everywhere like even to the point where people use it to summarize emails from friends or like text message you get a whatsapp message from a mate it's like summarize who they are summarize who they are you can't even like you're not even calling him you don't even have to listen to his voice you just like tap it's like just it feels just to be i don't know see i'm revolting against this i'm a big fan of just a phone call why did we lose the phone call phone calls are the best inventions on earth on earth yeah the thing that kills me is when i've got friends who will send me like a copy and paste from chat gpt to me it's like i'm not reading your ai slot just like you're my friend just talk to me literally yeah literally voice know me if you have to but like far out and it's so wild to think how yeah it's and it looked so here's the thing where when we talk to people so when you hear sounds you ever see those like people that play a trumpet or something you know paddock are full of cows and all the cows look over and they're like, mad, some person playing a violin or something.

1:07:35Anyway, vibrations are real. Like, so when you speak, the only reason you can hear me is because my vibrations are chopping the air up to make this sound signature. That's why when you go to a concert, it feels electric, like literally where you're like, oh my God, the energy in this room, it's a shared experience. So that is your vibrations echoing into mine, echoing back to the other person. We're like this big vibrational soup. And so when we don't hear each other's voice or give each other a hug or shake hands with people and stuff, we're losing that component of ourselves. And that is one of the biggest things for feeling good is about your nervous system, the electricity in it and all that sort of stuff.

1:08:21So when we don't see people, when we don't hug people, when we don't hang out with people in person, we're losing a lot. We can't see that we're losing a lot, but we are losing a lot. It's sort of like listening to a song live versus digitally is kind of like eating McDonald's beef patties versus a steak. Like you're like, no, this is meat. Like this is beef. It's like, yes, my body is thinking that's not beef, bro. That's fucking something. And then the same way when it hears the song digitally, it's like, yeah, I hear it digitally, but I'm not getting the whole experience here. because think vibrations and sound, sound is like this really, really powerful thing in physics because penetrates so aggressively.

1:09:06Like it's like a catch-all, like vibrations. If you're standing on something that's vibrating, you don't get a choice to be like, I'm going to ignore this. It takes over your entire state. Same way as being in a loud room, same way as jumping in the ocean, jumping in the ocean. It's like, dude, that's like you could pay a hundred bucks for that and people would pay for it if you didn't have an ocean to jump in. But like the refreshment, all your like everything has been like cleaned off, like unzipping. It's like taking the shrink wrap off for a new like suit of electrons. And they're all like, woohoo, we can feel shit.

1:09:40But it all matters. And I think we've kind of drifted towards this digital environment where it's like, no, no, no. It's basically the same. It's like, no, there's something about human interaction, human connection. A great example. How funny is this? So we walk, you see those infrared saunas and infrared things and stuff and people are like lying there trying to get the infrared up. Okay, that's because it does really good things for your body and makes you feel good and shit. When you go, oh, how would I get that naturally? Dude, literally walking through a park. So the chlorophyll on the leaves refracts all the infrared light so it can't absorb it.

1:10:17So it's like, you know those movies with a bank vault and they've got the trip lasers everywhere. Like they open and they're like, oh my God, there's all these lasers, all different directions. That's why when you're walking through a park, think of that, but they're infrared lasers like zapping into your mitochondria, straight into the core of your cell. That's why when you go for a walk outside, sometimes you're like, you know, I'm glad. I'm actually glad I went on that hike. I'm glad I went on that thing. I'm glad I went to that. Yeah, fucking off you are. You're not even in charge. Your body's telling you you're glad because it's like, who the fuck gave a sissing for Red Bar?

1:10:51So that's what it is. So the refraction off the chlorophyll, the leaves and shit, it's mad. It's like your body thinks like you're going for a bar. But you see people who pay$400 for these face masks and they sleep in there like a bed looking like Jason from Halloween and shit with their masks on. Dude, if I came and saw my mom, I woke my mom up in the middle of the night and she's like, with one of those masks, horror movie, wouldn't sleep for 20 years. Dude, maybe that's why I can't sleep. I fucking love you, man. so maybe that maybe that's the when everyone revolts against ai and people go outside again maybe that's when we really uh recapture what it is to be human i think possibly or what happens if cryptography ends and we can't we can't so we should talk about this because like this has obviously become a huge topic in bitcoin with quantum stuff yeah but you are the only person i know personally who's been working on breaking cryptography before this yeah like what's what's your read on it all oh i think i think it breaks definitely and i think it's like the universe through a normal like through math breakthroughs so yeah so i think i think quantum will be a thing quantum will be a pain in the ass for lots of things but for cryptography it's really like an advancement in the knowledge of prime numbers like because that's sort of we build on not knowing these guys as well as we know everything else in the universe and i think that's where the patterns will come through from basically AI will be able to see what prime numbers are trying to do.

1:12:14And so prime numbers basically are, it's like every cryptographic key is basically the mixture of two prime numbers. Think about it like for lack of a better term, and we don't know how to unmix them. So you put two colors together, we know what colors went into it. So if I gave red and blue, I think I'd get green. I know if I see something green, it came in as red and blue before. We don't know the before part when it comes to cryptography. And so that's why we're like, oh, we don't know if it was red, blue, yellow, green, because we don't know the whole spectrum of who works with what. But just to give you an example, right?

1:12:54So 256-bit encryption, which is half 512 standards, are pretty strong. Like that's, you know, travel a million times around the universe of guesses and then you still need to do that 10 trillion times to get 1 % of the way. So just to compare that, right? So we look at cryptography like it's, you know, impenetrable, but it is just a guessing game. And just because we don't have the context to sharpen our guesses doesn't mean it's impossible. And what I mean by that is wheel of fortune, right? Wheel of fortune, The blank squares, right? The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dogs. A saying. That's why.

1:13:34So you guess the letters, right? One in 26, one in 26. Every single one of those is one in 26. So one in 26, one in 26. You've got to do that a lot of times. If you've got 55 characters or 26 characters, 52, that's one in 26. That's an astronomically stupidly dumb big number. now if we think well yeah but i know that there's no english words that have zzbw in a row so i can rule that out yes you can so now this astronomically 512 bit encryption shrinks down very quickly and it starts going oh yeah people guess wheel of fortune every day 18 bits 30 like 18 characters 30k they just ask questions but it's like oh it's a movie oh cool then the i know what words my if there's one letter at the start i'm not gonna think oh yeah it's z no it'd be i like i am robot or i robot or whatever but it's not like you know k is the first letter on its own we've got context to sharpen our choices so that's why fred smith that works at kfc or joe blow that works at Guzman and Gomez, they can go on the show and they still, it's not like they're trying to crack cryptography.

1:14:51But every day we see these humans busting wide open 256-bit encryption in the same way. And so what I'm saying is, yes, it's harder than the game show. Sure. It's just longer, but it's not impossible. It's impossible if you don't have any context. Sure. That's like a blind guy trying to find the macaroni and cheese and coals. But if you say, yeah, the mac and cheese dairy products are in aisle six, you've now given him a hint, a guide. And so that context starts shaping the reality of what you are actually looking at, but can't see. So let me see if I've learned anything from you. So the problem in this is that there's no pattern to prime numbers.

1:15:34To find a larger prime number, you essentially have to brute force it. But is what you're saying that if we found a pattern in prime numbers, then encryption gets broken? Yes. Do you think that's possible to find a pattern? Do you think a pattern exists? I believe with my hand on my heart that a human being will do it before I'm dead. And so is that the basis for every single cryptographic scheme there is? And does that mean there is no cryptography? Everyone that matters, yeah. Because so prime number is, think of it like the hardest element in the universe. And I actually mean that quite literally.

1:16:08Just because if I pick up a grain of tungsten, a grain of sand that's tungsten, I go, that's the heaviest element in the earth or whatever. You're like, oh, cool. A prime number is that, but it's just smaller. It's indivisible. There is no saw that cuts a prime number in half. So treat a prime number like divisibility, splitting the atom, right? Splitting the atom. That happened in war because we're under pressure. We split the atom with the smallest thing ever. Well, a prime number is a number that doesn't have any parts. by definition that is its defining factor and we've never been able to let's call it split a semi-prime so a semi-prime is when you multiply two primes together and what a semi-prime is is they will use those because we don't the primes have no like oh yeah he had brown hair and glasses he went down there into the left there's none of that it's like i don't know dude he was too far i didn't even see the cunt like i don't know which way he went it's like okay so it's basically you know they're prime you know you will never find them and so the idea is like well is that true that was true in 1970s when rsa was developed but you know has things have things changed since then yes has our knowledge changed uh maybe but our ability to look at the same thing through multiple lenses that's changed so it's still the same data but we're going to look at it through multiple lenses and so I think it just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable it's like oh sure yeah sure in that context it's not but if you make it look wheel of fortune everyone can guess wheel of fortune doesn't mean they can guess a 256 bit cryptographic key though but it's like no no no once we paint it in a way that people comprehend it people will be like oh no no no it's this and you got to do that and you're or do this that restricts it even more and so like i look at it now i look at um i forget because it's prime numbers i focus mainly on rsa cryptography um because that's just like a it's just all rsa is it's just literally one prime another prime multiply them together that's your public key so it's like public key if you click on the padlock on your website right now like we're on and i go uh i can look at the certificate connection is secure.

1:18:25It's got a valid certificate. And that means its key on its side is happy with my key on my side. And that's a key exchange where they're sort of basically saying, yeah, you might, yeah, you might, cool. But these prime numbers, they're not, they're hard to find with our current logic, like our current approach to finding them. Sure. It's really difficult. Brute forcing takes forever, but we're not dignifying numbers with enough physicality. And when we do, when we go, all right, let's treat numbers. They're not imaginary. They're just really, really small particles. Well, then that gets, they now get included into physics equations.

1:19:04So, well, if a prime number is physical, then it should be bound to the same laws of physics that, you know, physical objects are, whether it's an electron or whether it's a building, it should be the same thing and so if we crack open our own understanding or give it a chance and say well let's just say hypothetically they are physical what does that look like and then we start getting thousands and thousands and remember the world has eight billion people in it and they all have access to ai the only reason people don't do this stuff now is because they don't really know it's a thing but if you told everyone hey there's one trillion dollar bounty for anyone that can break factor a semi-prime faster, I promise you this answer comes in a year by the end of the year.

1:19:49The only reason it's not is because people aren't focused on it, to be honest. So, you know, everyone becomes an expert at something overnight, like straight of Hormuz, we all know everything about Iran and when it started and how it's done, whatever it is. But primes will go through their same thing. And there's going to be a big conversation because a lot of it will intersect around AI. AI will want more data. We will want better understanding of energy. We will want more privacy. So we're going to try, but here's the thing. We have privacy and stuff. And I totally get, I'm not against privacy.

1:20:18I'm just against the reality is I don't know. And I'm not the smartest person on the planet. I don't know anything else in nature that's been granted privacy. Now they're being granted privacy by humans, but nature doesn't really go that route. Nature's like, it's my way or the highway always. And that's why we always have second order effects with everything and so nature the natural state of keeping secrets is actually not real like it's not organic and so that's why in the world of addiction so you know alcohol whatever it is whatever your poison is they have a thing that is saying it says secrets make us sick and that means whatever the secret is it's going to manifest inside and it starts creating all these third-party accidental effects just from the manifestation or from the keeping it so people that you know they might crash their car drunk or something like the tiger woods yeah crash car drunk but he's like oh were you drinking no no no it's like this the secrets are creating this sickness from you and like in addiction a lot of the time is because people keep their addiction from others and so they go well secrets make you sick in that world because you're not sharing the most authentic and you're trying to control things too much so when i look at the world like the earth i think there has to be a pretty big enlightenment moment but i think right now the layers of earth like as in a humanity i don't think they're going to hold very long like this shadow elite with elites with plebs with homeless people like that structure just doesn't work and I don't think it's going to work for very long.

1:22:03And here we go. Like, so you see people breaking into like Epstein Island, right? Like these people are like, no, I need to know everything. That, that desire, that's not, that's not organic need. That's their dopamine center, like a zombie with bloodlust almost. They are that frothing over it. That's going to happen with everything. And so the, the mankind will not tolerate a secret, I don't think. Especially after if we like kind of replay history, at least like the hardships, I think it's going to become more of a, we're all one and we all like many hands make light work all on the same team perspective instead of a kill or be killed perspective.

1:22:45And now to get to that level of you're okay and I'm okay and we're both okay as one, that's where haves and have nots can't exist anymore so we have to get to that level of sort of peace and okayness with each other we have to have it so that you can't be envious of something i have and vice versa so if you have more than i have or if i have more than you have and that can mean what i'm sort of circling on is energy so we can't control it i mean that that's the flow everything comes back from energy you have lots of it you have none of it do you have water do you have resources so no oh, we've got no water in the middle of Africa.

1:23:21Well, fuck, everything's going to be expert mode. Great example, water in the Middle East, the deserts. So, Oman or Kuwait, 740 % of their annual water production is used. So, they use seven point, imagine getting paid 100 grand a year and spending 750 grand, even better. So, Dubai, they get paid 100 grand a year water budget, right? I think theirs is like 46, so 46 times, so 4 ,600%. So that's like me spending$4.6 million a year when I get paid 100 grand a year. Now, naturally, that is fighting. We're fighting the natural order very much, trying to put water in the desert. Like now that's not a bad thing.

1:24:06It's great. We're expanding, da-da-da. But sooner or later, we'll realize that fighting the natural order to try and be the masters of our own destiny is probably a shorter story for mankind than it is for how do we all lift each other up and win. And, you know, because right now countries are trying to win. People are trying to, individuals are trying to win. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone, you buy all your shit from China. Are you going to sit there and say you don't like China? For good, stop buying it then. Let's see how happy you are. No, you wouldn't be. just show some gratitude russia science medicine and mathematics unreal let's like imagine we go like imagine you're in a group project and everyone's got to do all of the parts it's like no who is the who's the history guy okay you're really good at ancient history you're doing the egypt part you you're really good at modern history you're doing world war ii it's like delegate to expertise i mean it sounds like an entire shift from a sort of scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset from everyone.

1:25:10Everyone. But that's everyone has to have their needs met. And so the needs started basically food, water, shelter. And now money is unfortunately this artificial need that we've kind of injected into the stack. But the removal of money, which is probably where it goes, like money is money is only a stopgap solution. It's sort of like, oh, yeah, I've got cheese and crackers because the pizzas are running late. Like, you know kind of it's like here fill up on this and in the meantime because we can't teleport energy around so we needed to make some currency that represented give a shit i mean labor right like hey you put a shovel here's this give a shit so we call that gold or whatever but the biggest threat to bitcoin generally speaking is actually uh apathy so people don't need money anymore why not because everything just works we've got all these autonomous energy systems and blah, blah, blah.

1:26:03And then that ushers in the potential for a new creative renaissance, basically. And a lot of people have talked about this and Bitcoin is Venice and all this. Beautiful, incredible foresight from these smart cats in the industry. But that's sort of what it does. So now when you and I are not thinking, fuck, did I get that Excel spreadsheet in on time? Shit, is the bus running late? Is that canceled? Is that my bus or the next bus? And blah, blah, blah. And I've been at work all day. I haven't thought anything about my purpose. I've just been like surviving. Now, if you give everyone back all that time and effort and excitement or zest or enthusiasm, where does it go?

1:26:43And so people probably aren't rushing to build, you know, oh, dude, I've got the best thing. What is it? Yeah, you come into an office for 40 years and there's no sunlight and there's mad dry air conditioning. It's like, fuck out of here. Like stupid suggestion. But it's like, I think that ushers in a new era of almost like we made it through the hardest part possible and everyone gets to have a beautiful life. Right now, it's like, bro, like we got so lucky being born. I'm the luckiest human being I know. Born in Australia. There's no bomb flying over my head. Like running water, like two seconds down the road.

1:27:19There's a beach. There's people. People are happy. People are nice. People are sort of chilled. Like unreal. but like imagine someone who didn't even choose to be here they didn't ask to come oh yeah can I come to earth please they didn't even ask to be and they come out like they're like fuck what the why am I even here I didn't ask to be you know and so it's like I don't know but I think we're going that direction where we're sort of finding a way to meet everyone's needs but I definitely think there's like we need to clean up a lot of the governance structure of earth like Like right now, I don't know what's happening, but watching what happened in the US over the past 6 to 12 months with all the punishment from all these FBI blacked out notes and redacted notes, it's like what the fuck is even going on?

1:28:11Clearly you're not working for the people paying the taxes and it's just like that whole whatever kind of needs to be pulled out before you can kind of have a healthy system. I don't really know how they do that because that's sort of the way that we've been living forever so maybe that's what bitcoin is for like if we are going to live in a post-money world like maybe bitcoin is here to uh to starve the beast and get us to that so I've got this theory that there's like infinite many universes like we're all like every decision sort of spawns a new universe and I was thinking I was saying to my brother a while ago I was like bro I reckon we're in the universe that invented Bitcoin for all the other universes.

1:28:52But the caveat is that we made it so every other timeline gets it forever, but we won't have it long term. And like something like that, like we kind of break it ourselves or something, but everyone else doesn't get the broken version and we kind of, who knows. But I'll tell you what, imagine if we did not have Bitcoin right now. Imagine not having it. It'd be like, I don't know what to do. Like, where do you put your money what do you do and then then basically the strategy is how do you preserve your wealth we just put it where everyone's money laundering when it like literally if like i'm like i'm and i'm laundering money or whatever it's like where are you guys putting it oh we put in the store okay cool he's gonna put it there too and so that's a bitcoin needs to be the best vehicle for people to launder money so don't just that people park it there and pump money it's not very good from like this is so weird the counterproductive thing is like bitcoin's terrible for money laundering it's like not like people like i'm money laundering bitcoin it's like dude no one just use the bank on the street with their dick out like why the fuck would anyone do that with bitcoin like it's the same thing like so anyway who knows but i think um i think there's a lot of excitement on the horizon and yeah we're pretty blessed right now to see and like we haven't even talked about like claude and chat chavit getting better in three years where could they be in three years like just to show you how hot it this that gets back to the exponentials though I have no prediction of where it will be.

1:30:15It's like, oh, dude, three years ago, oh, was that before it could launch rockets to Mars? You haven't even been to Mars, dude. Dude, last 18 months have been crazy. I'm going to be like, tell me everything. I'm Kane. It's almost like that. And now that's the problem for entrepreneurs now is they have to choose their destiny almost. So you want to build a company, you've got to choose correctly. Like very difficult. So you're in a great position where you're like, you know, hosting a podcast it's like you're the personality you are the talent like you and your likeness is the talent but it's like dude if i'm a front-end engineer doing html css javascript it's like i don't know where i'm going from there like and i don't know what starts thinking about doing then like but what stops someone just uh creating ai me taking all the transcripts to all my context and putting that into some like AI podcast.

1:31:09That is a thing. There's no way my job's safe either. Well, no, no, no. So this is actually really interesting because one of the person that's had the most of that done to them is Alan Watts. So Alan Watts, the philosopher. So he's brilliant. The most brilliant speaker I've ever heard in my entire life. Like there's never an ounce of fat on any of his sentences. Anyway, but what people do now is in the same way they do it to like Joe Rogan, where they'll take Alan Watts' speeches and they'll go, chat, JPG, write something that sounds like it was written by Alan Watts. And then people speak and they'll put a bunch of like, you know, rivers and creeks overlaid over the sounds.

1:31:49And so now you don't know what's real and what's not real. And so, but this is what happens, right? So we're talking about this merging between you and me, but we're becoming one. Like, so we're becoming one. If you're holding on, the last thing you have is your likeness. it's not your voice your voice that was deepfaked three years ago your body now is deepfaked now as well but your likeness like write it like danny here's 100 podcasts he's done write it like he would write it you can see in like script writing now with people on tv shows a lot of script writing has to accommodate for people like this is another thing right so the data set of ai is going to be trained on these changes and adaptations that we've had to ai so the script for example in netflix shows they have a new script writing sort of strategy because so much of the audience can't follow old script writing styles because there's too much context because no one's watching so people like they're looking up every 20 seconds but they're not following so that's why you find these scripts that sound so ridiculous but it's like they say the same thing eight times i'm glad you on the battleship hey great and the battleship we just got to yeah we're about to take off awesome i'm glad we met on the battleship let's go into battle great this is the perfect battleship for it it's so depressing they have to make the the scripts like scrollable meaning you can be scrolling your phone while you watch it and still follow the story and they make it like they have key moments that are memeable yeah like these are things that actually go into production now it's so depressing a hundred percent and so that in itself is shaping and creating the possibility of what that art format can actually deliver and then it's making the ai stupider because it's like you mean to tell me you guys are so dumb you can't listen for 30 seconds nope it's down to five seconds next year it's going to be down to one second and like that's actually a thing by the way we're all slowly getting autism but a hundred percent and that kills me like it's it's the commoditization of all mass media like music film like any form of art yeah and i i also don't think it's real because like when you see um what's he what's the guy called who did to oppenheimer i forgot his name oh yeah christopher nolan yeah christopher nolan he's coming out with a new film all shot on like imax film yeah like these are things that people actually want like real real stories because people want to escape it's escapism a hundred percent and it's that's the art form the art form isn't oh you know cinema is art music is art now the problem is when you when you get things that people like and you get a system that tries to duplicate that you basically get bastardization so it's like now if you're a movie studio so let's say you've got this art cinema now times are getting harder in the real world outside of cinema times are getting harder so what does a movie studio exec say hey do we make that new original picture or avengers 8 well we can guarantee a good quarter if we make marvel superheroes 7 oh fuck it but do you think people talk we've already done all the data we'll lose 80 of the fan base but this quarter will actually double our revenue great done and that's why that gets done but ask any actor on earth who they want to be in a movie for they will all tell you first up one name, Christopher Nolan.

1:35:10You know why? Because he's not the money grab anymore. He is the talent where people are like, whatever he does, it's going to be unreal. So it's what used to be, you get that same feeling of like, they are good at their craft. The same way we used to look at actors and be like, whoa, they're good. It's like, that's all just cookie cutter popcorn shit in the same way music's the same, because these guys, they're capital, like they're trying to make money. So they're like, they're not trying to add to the art industry. They're just trying to make money and so they're like well yeah this makes more money now Christopher Nolan has earned his stripes where basically he calls the shots now he's got the dramatically good track record that says it's my way or the highway thank you and they go yeah but also like when he does those films the actors take like 20 of their normal paycheck to do it as opposed to doing like an Avengers film because they want to be a part of it they are like this guy it that is the LeBron James the Michael Jordan.

1:36:04That's like playing, you know, on the winning team because everything else is boring to them. There's no challenge in being Wolverine for the sixth time and getting that $240 million paycheck and going to the same bar and being on the same tour. Oh yeah. Yeah. He had great claws this time. Wow. I mean like, they don't feel part of like the, the best of the best. Now, if you're at a Christopher Nolan movie, you made it. And that's why actors now, There is no acting. It's like The Rock is not an actor. The Rock is a wrestling star who's enthusiastic about entertainment, sure, but he's not an actor.

1:36:40And like Russell Crowe, he's an actor. Like The Rock, not an actor. And they realize that it's actually quite easy to bridge the gap between fame and acting. And it's just sort of an extended revenue stream for the famous person singing or acting, right? I don't think you watched The Smashing Machine. The Rock was an actor in that. Oh, The Smashing Machine I haven't seen. So I gave The Rock as he was on Fortnite recently. And I was at the shits because I was like, fucking The Rock. He's like, look, cool. I love him in a vibe, but he's like super like whores himself out for everything. Like one of the frustrating things about that is the team I chose in Fortnite, The Rock is on the other team.

1:37:17This sounds stupid, but The Rock in all his contracts has a The Rock can't lose clause. So in all this stuff, The Rock is not allowed to lose. Oh, you see a photo of The Rock fell off a cliff in Jumanji 7. Yeah, but at the bottom of the cliff, he was there and he built a hut and he was safe and he killed all the villagers or something. I don't know. But that's a funny thing to have baked in because they're, again, they're not even about entertainment. They're about brand preservation. Isn't that wild to think? It's like. I just love that you're like trying to solve novel math problems and playing Fortnite.

1:37:48They're your two hobbies. The best, dude. The best. You've got to have the mad disconnect. You've got to be 100 % in something and then absolutely not in it. yeah nah but nothing solved yet just still still stupid um michael this has been fucking awesome i love talking to you i i feel like uh i don't know which way's up but i had a good time well if there's anything you hear and you're like oh actually that made sense i'll ask him about that again but always down and i really appreciate it and congrats on a bunch of awesome episodes by the way i've been like boring my ears out to you for the past like i don't know month listening need some bangers so thanks it's awesome i love it thank you man and we we need to do this more regularly i'm going to come down to sydney soon and we should do it again awesome dude i've got a spare room you can crash at mine there you go done we can go um thank you man um i will speak to you soon this has been so much fun awesome thanks so much mate

1:38:59Thank you.