Bitcoin vs Wall Street | American HODL, Junseth & Erik Cason

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40:26Yeah. And you don't think Bitcoin's won yet? No, I don't think Bitcoin's won yet. No, that's not true. I think Bitcoin won a long time ago. I just don't think Bitcoin has done anything. It's not done anything super impressive. Everyone's always talking about the amazing things that Bitcoin's going to do. And I don't think that there's a checklist of things that I would say Bitcoin's done in particular. And I don't know that Bitcoin will ever do that stuff. I've always been kind of bearish on the idea. Can we be less vague? Didn't we already do a lot of stuff? Yeah, I mean, like Bitcoin is sort of just this innocuous thing that exists in the universe, and I think it's great.

41:01I'm glad we have it. But I just, like people talked about, you know, Bitcoin ending wars and Bitcoin just, you know, like there was a list of things that, you know, particularly libertarians would talk about Bitcoin doing. And it just is, it's not done any of that. And I don't know that it will do a lot of that, given that North Korea has been amassing a ton of Bitcoin and I don't think they're exactly for the end of wars. But like there's just been just not a ton of stuff that I think Bitcoin has like specifically done. I don't find I find Bitcoin to be more of a sort of an innocuous, interesting thing to like participate in and look at than I do.

41:36Like I think there's a lot of kind of worship of it that I don't do. It's an idea, right? It's a candle in a very dark forest. So that's important. But how it manifests and how we push it forward, I think, I agree with you. I think that there's a lot of work to do to actually bring. I think that Bitcoin comes to do things that we didn't expect of it very, very slowly in a way that just sort of like integrates it into the world and just integrates it into society and into the things that we normally do in such a way that it just doesn't really, there's not ever a moment where we're like, boy, Bitcoin did this amazing thing and blast it off.

42:12It just kind of slowly integrates. And I think that's the most important thing that Bitcoin actually does. Because we have this idea that Bitcoin liberates everybody, that suddenly the utopia presents itself, that everybody suddenly figures it out that they're getting fucked by CEO money. This never happens. I want to be super clear for everybody. The utopia that you want to sell to other people, yeah, it doesn't exist. And that's okay. That's important that it doesn't exist. because the real truth of what Bitcoin is is that it finally gives you a fair opportunity that like if you want to exit the system, you can.

42:51That's all. But like you got to make the fucking break. You got to run for the fences and see if you can get in the hole or get fucking shot. I don't actually give a shit whether or not you do that. I'll tell you it's possible. I'll show you where the hole is and how you can do it. But if you want to actually take the opportunity to make a risk to choose Bitcoin, to see what we all see, there is an opportunity there, but I can't force that onto you. But is that, having that opportunity alone, is that not winning? Yeah, for sure it's witty. And you actually recognize that this whole thing is fucked up.

43:27It's a complete facade. And that if you choose to do... We're fucking freaks. You and I probably would be dead from drug addiction at this point. You and I, who are you talking to? Danny mean huddle like drugs you're like a level person like I'm dead wait did you say just as a level more level on cocaine I mean like as he seems like he's a good father yeah yeah but so so what do you want to see then like if we've not already won what do you need to see what more do you need yeah well I know I think like Bitcoin's won in the sense that like I think I think the shit coins are dead. I think they were always dead.

44:11I think they've been dead for years. It took a long time for people to figure that out. I think of the things that Bitcoin is going to do, I think Bitcoin is going to emerge the only thing that does this stuff, whatever it is. And there's all sorts of tech on Bitcoin that allows us to extend Bitcoin into other sorts of... We'll give Bitcoin other properties. Like Paul Stortz has talked a lot about doing side chains and stuff like that. He's obsessed with... That's one of our addrops. Yeah, that's right. That's one of the coming air drops. But he's obsessed with prediction markets and stuff like that.

44:45So Ethereum has some of the prediction market stuff there, but there's no reason that can't be on Bitcoin. And that's always been kind of my thesis is that everything that we really do want that actually exists, that we can do with blockchain, can be done on Bitcoin if it actually matters. And will be done on Bitcoin at some point if it actually matters. And a lot of these, these sort of like a lot of the shit coins, as we tend to refer to them, are running these sort of reckless experiments where they're seeing kind of how far they can push a lot of this stuff. And that's fine. Let them do that.

45:15But that stuff can be on Bitcoin. can i just say like i listen i do think that you're being a little bit too demure uh and self-effacing because like you're more og than i am but i remember a time when you know the subreddit had 50 000 people on it and if bitcoin was mentioned on a libertarian podcast it was the top story on the subreddit and people were like oh my god dude sure it's can you believe we're on an episode of ncis i've talked i've talked about this before they mentioned it in a plot point for three seconds. At every stage of Bitcoin, everyone that gets here thinks that they're late.

45:48Every single person. I felt that way. You know, I was like, oh, the fun's already been had. It's fucking, already, I'm so late, you know? And, and little did I know that like, you know, 18 cent Bitcoin and 30 cent Bitcoin was like, gonna be, look very, very cheap 10, 15 years later, right? And that's, that's the thing, is like, everyone's always feeling like they're late and there was a time when like little things like Bitcoin Magazine came out they got on a couple of barnes and noble bookshelves i remember driving to barnes and noble to look at issue one and just be like we fucking did it it's it's over it's a wrap it's over it's a wrap we did it like bitcoin's done and look at that you were right i mean like general reserve look at that you don't even have a magazine listen going from look at this shitty four-page magazine ecb noble like okay listen like um going from 30 cents to 126 000 is an extremely big deal that never that never happens like bitcoin went from this you know weirdo thing uh with for a bunch of weirdos in weirdo meetups like this one no offense uh and and then it grew to be you know globally prominent on wall street you're all my people I want to be very clear about that and now global governments have to get invested in bitcoin and like it's a reality that people now have to deal with so I don't know I think it's just we have one massive like part of the reason bitcoin's struggling right now it's because we chewed through like 15 years of narrative struggling yeah yes no I just I like I don't again I don't understand that like it's not 126 000 but it is 64 000 right like 64 000 i think there's shit kicked out of it repeatedly like over the narrative constantly bitcoin has always done this it's a highly volatile asset it's always gone way up and then gone way down and like i remember when npr mentioned it and it went to 30 and i was like oh my god like that's it 30 bucks and then and then wikipedia started accept or uh not wikipedia what's the wiki leaks um wiki leaks started accepting it and then and then i just remember it's there coming down and like back down to dollar like that's like that's a that's a we we dropped 50 percent 50 percent okay i was here when bitcoin went to 30 dollars and dropped to a dollar like it's it's we're in a different world this doesn't look like getting beat up to me like i've i've watched this narrative no no yeah play out now i don't know 18 times no i i i completely agree like we've already fucking won we've won really really hard the fact of that the fact the price is 65 000 right now despite all the bullshit that's happened goes to show how much we've actually won the problem is right now there isn't a cohesive narrative about like where we're going.

48:47I don't think there, I don't think there needs to be. And the reason I say is because like Bitcoin works, Bitcoin works. It does what it's supposed to do. It transmits value from here to there. That's all it's supposed to do. And it's, you know, sort of base form, right? And it works and it's worked now for 15, 16 years. Well, I want to take the other side of what Eric said and say that there is a cohesive narrative about where we're going. It's just that none of us like it. Why is it? The narrative is that we're marching into a period of, you know, co-option by the corporate interest of the state.

49:22Like, and that's happening. And to be fair, like fucking Mark Goodwin and Whitney Webb, they were like, this is where it's going. Earlier, you talked about being close to the spigot, right? And this is called Cantillon effect, right? Okay. So you have Cantillon effect. Bitcoin is a reverse Cantillon effect. Those who are nearest the spigot are the last people to get it. And the first people that were here were hookers. Yes. And I remember when I was like, I was called by, I think it was Forbes, after one of the nights at like a Bitcoin magazine. And they were like, sir, there was a Bitcoin event that was done at a strip club.

49:58What do you think about the women of Bitcoin and how they feel about that? And I was like, the women of Bitcoin were on the polls. What are you like? Sir, we know that you suck some dick at a Bitcoin party. The first fucking users of Bitcoin were the women on the polls. You respectable women didn't get here until 2015, 2016. And you're fucking late. The hookers were here long before you. The strippers have been using it for 10 years. 2016, they've been using it for 10 years. And I want to be clear. If you're looking for any alpha, hookers and strippers are the alpha. Okay? So just let you know.

50:30What about all the Wall Street things that are done at strip clubs? Many, many more. Multiples more. Sure. That's true. It never bothered me in any sense that any of the Bitcoin stuff was doing in Strip. First of all, I don't care what women think. But like, ask my wife. No, but like in general. Again, this is why we're not live streaming this one. I just want to point that out again because that was a real win for PubKey.

51:01The truth is that the first women here in Bitcoin were the strippers and the hookers. like they were they were drug addicts i remember i went out on a i went to england uh many years ago and uh was taken out by one of the guys who was like selling bitcoin in the streets and he takes me out it takes us like 40 minutes by train to get where he needs to go and then he sits in a car and this guy who like is buying it is clearly an addict right he's like clearly going to shoot this shit up his arm and uh they sit there for like 20 minutes as the block confirms he trades him the bitcoin he gives him the cash we're just sitting there and we're sitting in attic we're sitting in we're sitting in the car with an addict who's sitting there just kind of like itching to like get his like i don't know what he was putting his arm but something you know he's going to go get something with his bitcoin he's like i'm just sitting there and he's called fentanyl and stop acting like it's a problem okay but but i don't know i mean at this time he's buying like you know like three bitcoin for like 35 dollars right and i like years later you look at that you're like that that motherfucker like i wonder if he has like any left like just kind of like leftover.

52:03And if he's like sitting on like hundreds of thousands of dollars, but Bitcoin expensive heroin ever. These are the first people that came to Bitcoin. Bitcoin really did have a reverse cantaloupe effect where the people farthest from the spigot got it first. It's sort of like a one time cantaloupe effect, right? Like it only happened once. It'll never happen again. Right. And the people that come now, like the people that are closest to the spigot, they can buy a ton of it, but they're doing it at 60 ,000 or$120 ,000 a coin. Yeah. Which is, you know, like if the Rockefeller, the Rockefeller Foundation had figured this out at like, 50 bucks a coin would be in a very different world, but no one did.

52:35That's why Michael Saylor was kind of a big deal when he first started is because we had prophesied Michael Saylor. Like he was a Lisan Al-Gaib for us where we were like, one day a man will buy a billion dollars of Bitcoin, you know? And then like my aunt at Thanksgiving would be like, you're fucking delusional. It's fucking retarded. I remember like Bitcoin's worth$200. I had a good friend. He was working mutual funds at Goldman Sachs. And I told him, I was like, you know, Goldman should really like, you know, buy some Bitcoin. and he looked at me and he laughed he goes market caps five million dollars like that's why so cheap you know that's when you get in in retrospect in retrospect i'm looking at that i'm like and we talked about this earlier yeah like you didn't get you didn't get into bitcoin early because you were smart you got in because you were retard like you got in because like you looked at it and you really thought that like this small thing could become a big thing and like you think that you had vision but you didn't it's just that you got on the lucky train and And that's just the reality of it.

53:29Like many people were here accidentally and they have, you know, there's a lot of people that have a lot of money now because they were drug addicts and they have leftover coins. And like, I really want to hear that like, like I'm from the world of drug addict people. Like, like, look, without Bitcoin, like I'm fucking dead. Like I'm dead long fucking ago. This was supposed to be the positive panel. I'm getting there. Don't worry. So it's like, look, like, life for me fucking sucked, and I hated it. And I hated everything about it, and I was ready to kill myself. Thank you. And Bitcoin liberated me from that.

54:05I'm very happy about that. But like... Wait till I tell you about Jesus later.

54:13I've heard good things about that guy. You can't inject him, but you can put him in your heart. My whole point is that the amount of deep-seated hatred that people can't speak to about this system of abuse, extraction, and exploitation that Bitcoin actually answers in the most meaningful and deeply philosophical aspect is very, very, very important. Very. Thank you. I really appreciate that. So Gresham's Law. No, no, wait a second. Because when Huddled was saying, like, maybe we've used all the narratives, like, this is the stuff that people don't understand about Bitcoin anymore. Yeah, and the narrative is, fuck you.

54:55I can be a heroin addict. I can be a crack addict. I can be a fentanyl addict. See, you thought it wasn't going to be positive. And, like, my thing is that, like, I hate, I deeply hate everything about this fucking system of control, power, and autonomy that, frankly, AI is about to absolutely mindfuck to everyone. You can be a heroin addict. You can be a heroin addict. Join us. I want everybody to look under your chairs. We have a gift. We have a gift for everyone. Spoons at the bar. Eric, I want you to finish that thought. What are you saying about AI there? My point is to go into addiction.

55:36um no it's that the world is changing in a rapid and extreme pace and the place that you thought that you had by being a yale scholar and getting honors and whatever else bullshit it's just that it's bullshit this isn't going to matter in 20 years because the way that ai is completely fucked everything but also that in ai fucking everything bitcoin provides a path towards like if you just have fucking hustle like you can get it like they're fucking sewing machine store like fucking sewing machine it's cute like I see you guys branding that really well together as a couple gaily but like ultimately like it's a great path and that's a product of what AI can do is that you can create a business where love prevails all how am I meant to take this seriously i just want to point out that still light out it's it's not dusk yet um i graduated from ivy league there's one thing did you really i don't know probably so uh with gresson's law i'm not sure i agree with that with the uh cantillion uh effect but it is a cogent point um i do think that bitcoiners the broader bitcoin community is one of the only ones i can think of that's immune to Brandolini's law.

56:58What the fuck is that? Brandolini's law is the ability to argue against bullshit, like the amount of energy it takes. Bitcoiners are like watching for like Jesus coming out of the clouds every week. And they're like, oh, I got Michael Saylor. Oh, I love you. Oh, Elon. Elon's here. Oh, my Jesus. Look at the idiots. Look at the idiots that did Noah Doe. Noah Doe in New York State. You have people. We have somebody in the mug club that wrote an amicus brief. It's a swarm of retarded energy that is going to take down these things that are even a perceived fictional threat to Bitcoin. And they come out of the woodwork and they just swarm it with absolute bullshit.

57:42I do think that that not bullshit. Like we're always right. We fall for retardation all the time. No, the retard energy I'm saying is important. Oh, you're like the retard energy. Yes, very much. I consider myself an expert in that category. This has basically just been a panel on retail maxing. Pretty much. Hell yeah. Do heroin. Start a garbage can business. You could be a heroin addict. Maybe if you work hard enough. I'm going to refuse myself and say, I don't like heroin. You shouldn't do it. Please don't. Everyone likes heroin. I just got to put that out there for y 'all. Don't do heroin because you will like it.

58:15Yeah, you only don't like it if you've not tried it. I mean, it's amazing. Don't do it. Pretty great. Will you give us some positivity here, please? He's not getting on the plane tomorrow. what will you give us some positivity here please the positivity is like we actually have bitcoin i'm pretty positive highly successful it's going to continue to be highly successful and the simple fact is you live in a world where everyone else is a wolf to wolf like this has been known for 3 000 years the the classic quote of hominus homini lupi which means wolf is man is wolf to man yeah i butchered that um like it's a classic existence that we all have Bitcoin actually gets you to a place where you can play on a level playing field people can't fuck you over more so than any other place that they can at least you have a fair and level playing field by which you can choose to play the game DJ had things to say about that flattening and the choices is whether or not do you want to collapse into being a pathetic fucking nothing or do you want to choose to will to power and actually choose to say I fucking matter.

59:23My business matters. I have a vision for the future that my government and that society has not provided for me. So I'm going to make the decision to choose what the next thousand years will look like as opposed to collapsing into what the patheticness of what the next 50 years will look like. Nietzsche used to talk a lot about cleaning trash cans, too. Sure. I think across a lot of different parts of his career. At risk of taking a serious note here. I do like to inject some positivity. I think the whole thing has been positive and fun. But on the positive note, I think the killer app of Bitcoin is prosperity.

1:00:00I think that's what people want. On the way here, our cab driver was telling us how he... Do you mean your helicopter driver? Well, we took a helicopter and then we really should be acting like it's a bear market. I really thought this was going to be a panel of one tonight. Yeah, just thought we were going to die. i kind of thought it too i was like anytime you get in a helicopter you're like oh just wait for the conclusion but anyway you know the guy was telling us he was from egypt i don't know how the fuck you're gonna edit this he was he was he was telling us that he was from egypt our uber driver slash private helicopter driver he was from egypt and he his family moved here in 2013 and we looked up the exchange rate because we were talking about bitcoin with him and uh the you know uh egyptian pound had lost 87 of its value since his family moved here in 2013 and you know he was basically saying like why why would I do Bitcoin are people still doing Bitcoin we were like yeah of course people are still doing and here's why you would do it you would do it if you wanted to you know send remittances back to your family you would do it if you wanted to you know sort of you know put your savings into something that you're making as an Uber driver or you would do it because you know the the country that you come from is you know know via corruption and you know the system that's set up there like your your money is being inflated away and that's what is your money is if not pieces of your life especially when you're selling your labor for cash and you don't have assets if you're asset rich like to me it doesn't matter like when michael saylor gains or loses several billion dollars who gives a fuck but when rich when yeah meaning just rich right when some people are rich in love jensen that's um Um, when you're selling your labor into the marketplace, um, and you're, you know, your time is being devalued away from you.

1:01:53That is like a micro theft of your life. It's like a micro murder. Right. And so it's like, for me, the thing that is always interesting and exciting is regular people seeking prosperity and using Bitcoin to gain prosperity. and it doesn't really matter to me how people feel about BIP 110 or Michael Saylor. You don't care about BIP 110? I don't give a fuck about BIP 110. Oh my God. Not at all. It does not matter to me. Don't care. I'm actually impressed that you're still speaking to taxi drivers about Bitcoin. Always. I'm tired. That's like the best heuristic that you have. Yeah, but I'm genuinely exhaustive having those conversations.

1:02:33When I first came into Bitcoin - That's a helicopter pilot. We're moving up in the world. But like, that's the point, man. Like, you should be fucking exhausted because like, you know, the answer and they should fucking know it too. And they don't. But nobody's coming to save you, I think is the point. You got to say nobody is coming to save the USA is not coming to save the individual. But the USA is its own autonomous like blob effectively. But nobody's coming to save you. And when you talk to another person, I actually love that interaction with a cab driver or a helicopter pilot. That's actually what happens here.

1:03:06a lot with a casual bar chat and when you connect with somebody in an environment where you can actually communicate that nobody's coming to save you. But this is where I got really tired. When I first came into Bitcoin, I was talking to anyone I could possibly get their ear. I was talking to them about Bitcoin. And over time, I just get exhausted of those conversations. At some point, I do the podcast. Anyone who wants to hear about Bitcoin can come here and hear about it. But I feel like one of the biggest losses we had over the last few years is we haven't really had new people who are excited and fired up and want to talk to everyone about Bitcoin.

1:03:39That's not true, though. There's new people. Every single pump, we get entrance. Every single one. But we didn't have a pump. Who here came into Bitcoin after 2022? So we've got like three people. Okay. He's underselling it. It was like six. Seven. The problem is we haven't fucking ended the state at this point in time. And the state is the thing that fucking hates everyone. That's why they steal from us. That's why they take money from us. If they were a functional thing that didn't give, that actually gave a fucking shit about any of us, they wouldn't steal money from us. They'd actually give you money.

1:04:15They fucking hate you. The problem, the problem. They hate you unilaterally, unconditionally. And the fact that you are a fucking parasite. And I want to emphasize this point because the state has never made anything at any point in time for anyone, for any purpose. It hates you. It wants to steal from you. It's parasitic and it steals. Fuck them. Fuck everything that they represent. Fuck everything that they have ever tried to steal from you. We are a free, sovereign people that our constitution from its declaration of independence, each and every single point that is emphasized there is about the fact that we are free.

1:04:55We do not account to them. They have no right over us, and they have stole everything from us. We could make this the freest, the most liberated, the most prosperous country that has ever existed for all of humanity, and they do everything to step on our neck from that. Trump, Trump, Trump. Fuck Trump. Fuck everything that he represents. Fuck everything that every one of the politicians represents. This is about us as a free people, first and foremost, in that we have a right to choose for ourselves what our lives represent i brought my child here because i yeah me too um because i want him to know and understand what i represent as values in this world and one of the things that's the most valuable for me is that as americans we have a right to decide for ourselves what our lives look like.

1:05:55And our country has gone so deep and so thoroughly into each of our own rights, none of us know what that looks like anymore. What would it mean if we really had community? What would it mean if we were no longer robbed blindly by our own governments? What would it mean if we actually chose to make a community? it wasn't about right or left anymore, but it was about whether or not we chose to give one another the right to decide what their lives look like. That's why I'm a fucking Bitcoiner, is because I want everyone, whether or not I agree with them or not, to have a right to choose for themselves what their lives look like.

1:06:38And that's why I'll keep being a Bitcoiner despite all the bullshit that's going around about Bit110. and if you want to choose that for yourself okay i don't get it but go ahead and that's what i love about bitcoin is that we have made a choice for one another to actually have a subjective choice for each other about what the future is that we want whether or not you want a bullshit chain that somehow tries to censor whether or not dick butts are on it or if you get that i think most people don't give a fuck, but you do you. Listen, if you leave here and don't cut down a flock camera after hearing that, you're a status bitch.

1:07:23Yeah, that gets the applause.

1:07:28I'm ready to run through a war right now. So we got one... I think American Bitcoiners are the best chance that we have at saving the world for individuals. We got one pro BIP110 person here. And then HODL and I are kind of like don't give a shit. You'll find my body upstairs after I've been on. Does anybody have any questions?

1:07:55We'll keep going. Yeah, I got it. Here, take this, please. Cheers. Alright, so you guys were all lucky enough to find Bitcoin when you were probably what? In your 20s? I was fucking lucky. Motherfucker, I'm going to tell you about my life and then you tell me I'm lucky. you're all dads now, right? Like you got families, Bitcoin helped that. But I mean, I think one thing we feel in the Bitcoin community is that like, we need new blood, right? Like, what do you say to the 20 to 25 year old who can put 100, 200, 300 bucks into Bitcoin a month at most? Is that going to change their life? And is that useful?

1:08:30I actually think - Yeah, like, what are you going to say when it's at$250 ,000? Like, oops, I was wrong. Have you met a 25 year old right now? They went through COVID in high school and college. We're making the next one. Like, we can't deal with this current one. It's problematic. It's not easy to talk to. I'm kidding. At every turn, every revolutionary turn in society, there's been opportunity. And if you watch It's a Wonderful Life, they're pitching George on plastics. If you look at the X, Generation X in the 90s, they were all getting rich by investing in, you know, www websites, right? every single generation has had these opportunities when I was at college Google came out and uh and when I was young I didn't have any money I didn't have enough to put any money in and I found Bitcoin and the result is like you know some of us did very well with Bitcoin right this generation is going to have other opportunities Bitcoin might be a part of a portfolio but I don't think that like, I don't think you should live your life looking at what is going to make you rich.

1:09:38I think it's just a really problematic way to live your life. You should live your life looking at, you know, like we were talking about the constitution and declaration of independence earlier. Uh, Thomas Jefferson says that we have the ability to pursue happiness, right? It's the pursuit of happiness. And I really think that like as Americans in particular, the pursuit of happiness, and I would say the pursuit of satisfaction, maybe it would be even a better word, is something that we can all participate in. And I don't think, I think that there's been this narrative, particularly for younger people, that having money is the pinnacle of life.

1:10:12When the reality is that the world's built for the Toyota driver, the whole world's built for people who have 50 bucks. Everything is built for that person. It's not to say that you want 50 bucks only, but I'm just saying like, I don't think that necessarily Bitcoin is like, just investing all of your money in Bitcoin is necessarily the answer to every single person. And I think that that's always been the retard maxing pitch for Bitcoin. While it has been successful for the last decade, it doesn't have to be successful for the next decade for you to be fulfilled, satisfied, and happy. Yeah, but I think that's kind of rich coming from a 2011 Bitcoin.

1:10:45Everyone says that in your comments, too. It's not rich at all coming from him. Just one sec, just one sec. As the person here who bought Bitcoin the latest, I bought Bitcoin in 2016. I was like 26 years old or whatever. I had 100 pounds in my name, and I felt super late. Compared to Junset, I was super late. But I think people who are the same age now with the same amount of money now are still going to have massive upside opportunity in Bitcoin. We're clearly not at the top. That was my point on the Cantillion effect not necessarily being over. I do think it's still early. If things work out, it's like an outdoor cat.

1:11:17It'll come back unless it gets hit by a car. I'm sorry. I got to interject. So a couple of things. First of all, like whatever amount of money you think is going to make you happy, you're fucking wrong. Okay? Like I just look at him. I think it certainly helps to take a lot of pressure off. I think that a lot of people say that that's not entirely true when you're not worried about like basic, basic pressures of life. But hang on. I want to say this point. You will always be worried about that no matter what. Unconditionally, unilaterally, you will always worry about that. But the real question is whether or not you choose to live for yourself or someone else.

1:11:56Because I can't tell you how many people I meet that have made the choice. And I completely understand why and how and the reasoning for it. But they have chose to prostitute themselves to other people. And like, I don't judge it because I understand why and how it ends up. You are actually a free and sovereign individual that can make a decision about how you choose to guide your own life and i want to welcome you to that because like over here it sucks playing their game you will only lose no matter what if you choose from the get-go to do something else with yourself and represent who and how and why you want to exist for yourself that will work unconditionally unilaterally i guarantee it because i've been on the other side where you always have to welcome people who are listening now the question was are you free if you still feel hatred in your heart never and like for full gayness i have to say never not because can i defend you know like it depends on the night and what drugs i'm doing but not because i'm gay but because i want to welcome it's okay to be gay it's okay can i i want to defend the my point earlier though like take away from the you're all taken away from my throne my point is is that i want to welcome each of you to sovereignty god damn it I'm sorry, this is more trauma for your therapist.

1:13:22It's okay, he's paid well. Defend yourself. My point is that each of you should actually ask for yourself, what and how can I contribute to society in a meaningful way that isn't non-monetary? If you can welcome that, the monetary thing will present itself later down the line in a much more meaningful way, in a much bigger way than you could have ever expected. But you have to welcome the uncertainty of the whole thing. So as an early Bitcoiner who has watched Bitcoin go up, I know a lot of people who've made a lot of money. And I know a lot of people who are very unhappy who've made a lot of money.

1:14:00And I'm just saying, like, I think you can spend your whole life saying, what is the asset that this decade is going to perform the best? You can spend your whole life doing that. And then you can live on your mommy's couch. Stretch, yeah.

1:14:16stretch for example uh you can live on your mommy's couch and and count and count your little boobie coins right and and sit there for the rest of your life and uh at 65 be like i'm now rich i'm gonna go out to the world and i'm gonna go on vacation you know and i'm gonna go to like singapore or something and you'll get there like wow this is really hard i'm 65 you know like there's a lot of walking this place sucks this would have been really cool to see at 40 you know i used to have a sled yeah it was the most favorite thing and i'm just saying like spend your spend your time thinking about what's going to fulfill you don't spend all of your time thinking about what's going to be the most productive asset the next 10 years and like maybe it's bitcoin maybe it's ai maybe it's stretch maybe it's something we haven't thought of yet.

1:15:07I don't know. But I'm just saying it's the future. You can't predict it. A lot of people accidentally will find it, and they'll get really rich, and you'll watch some of your friends go from$0 to$1 billion, and they'll still be unhappy. If they were unhappy when they had very little, they'll be unhappy when they're very rich. I've seen it. Listen. Maybe this is a fantastic technology to take care of yourself, to take care of your loved ones, to grow a family, to take care of your community. Maybe it's a bottom-up grassroots approach, and we shouldn't expect somebody to do that for us. Listen, fuck all this.

1:15:41I took a helicopter here, and it was choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend it, okay? And maybe I'm the only retardant up on this stage who thinks Bitcoin's going to$10,$100 million a coin, because that's what I think. So if you're like, hey, I'm 25. Should I buy Bitcoin at$65 ,000? Yeah, you fucking buy it at$65 ,000. Do you want to have$100 million? Yeah. Buy Bitcoin. Don't. Don't. Don't buy Bitcoin. It's going to fail. It's going to go zero. There's no way it could work. Yeah. Yeah. Boo. You fucking suck. Like you believe what the Borg wants you to believe. And you fucking suck because of that.

1:16:23So yeah. Don't buy Bitcoin. Go do some woodworking. Go hunting. Any questions? If anybody wants to comment on that or redirect. we're gonna start to wrap this up before really that was certainly for you no we're not done just yet do we have any questions any questions way too late hey guys I have a question so right now quantum computing is regarded as one of the biggest challenge to bitcoin how do you guys see if like quantum computing really like decipher or you know the Bitcoin like math problem what do you see the future of crypto and Bitcoin this way I actually think we should bring Matt Corralo up I was literally so Matt get up here get up here Matt Corralo is coming we have some actual comments thank you you can ask the retail panel or you can ask Matt This is our expert.

1:17:31I'm totally into Quantum. He's really smart. I could tell you about Quantum. I'm going to let Matt do it. He's super smart, but he doesn't know. I think Jonseth would give a great answer to this. Probably, yeah. God damn it. You know what I was going to say, actually? I was going to be like, you know what's actually really interesting is we have people who've been core developers here in the room. Actually, Matt's in the back, and then I was going to invite you up, but then they didn't. So, like, I just, I want to clarify this for everybody. I'm in danger, right? No. No, no, you're fine. I think the serious answer is that there's still a ways off.

1:18:11Like, there's really interesting technical advancements in terms of algorithms and things and ways that you can build things with the physical qubits once they start to actually be usable. but we still have some time that isn't advancing at the rate that the algorithm stuff is advancing that has people really excited and worried but there's work to be done but it's also not as bad as people make it out to be because the work is surprisingly easier than it looks at first glance so I think there's a lot of people who are like quantum experts who look at Bitcoin at first glance, don't really understand all of the crypto top to bottom and say, oh yeah well, the elliptic curve cryptography is broken by quantum computers and Bitcoin uses that everywhere.

1:18:58And so it's going to be hard for them to upgrade. And so Bitcoin is fucked. But the reality is, for example, seed phrases and the way wallets are built, you can in fact prove that you know the wallet's seed phrase and use that to spend coins. So there are options that we have in like an actual emergency scenario where we could do things that would allow people to retain ownership of their coins, but would save Bitcoin, quote unquote. So Matt, are you saying basically - Nerd, burn him. Burn him. Are you saying basically that there are ways - Thank you, Matt, that's enough. We got one last question.

1:19:36Go ahead. Hang on. I just want to say - Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. Matt, I love you. I don't mean that by any means whatsoever. And I just want to emphasize that this is the nerd approach. This is like being on a panel with Hottl. Can we thank Matt for his service, please? last question everybody so this might be the most entertaining panel i've ever seen at pub key my question you must have a boring life my my question sorry danning how on earth are you going to turn this into a podcast luckily that's not going to be on me that's on vanya here to I've got no idea. Four minutes. Four minutes online.

1:20:17All right, quick one. Is it American hodl or hodl? It's hodl. Hodl. Hodl rhymes with bottle. Always hodl. Yeah, people always say, well, it's hold. The original word is hold, and it's like, no, it's a new word encompassing the buy and hold philosophy, and that new word is hodl. We don't know how to read. That's how it works. Phonetically, hodl makes way more sense. That is not the Rwandan pronunciation of it, which is HODL. HODL. So next time that you do it, do it that way. Alright, we got any more questions or is that it? Okay. I want to say a huge thank you to Eric, HODL, and Junsef. They've come from all over the US.

1:21:00Give them a big round of applause. Woo! And obviously, a massive thank you to Thomas, PubKey. This has been awesome. I appreciate you, man. Yay, PubKey! And I want to end on the note that each and every single one of you has a responsibility to actually talk to your family and friends about Bitcoin in a mature and thoughtful way. I know it's very easy to retreat into the like, oh, yeah, like, I don't I don't know. You fucking know. You know exactly what all of this is about. Go talk to your family and friends about why Bitcoin is actually important from your own standpoint. Fuck you. This is important.

1:21:41You're fucking over here giggling. I can't believe he's laughing. I know. How dare him? What a dick. You know what? We're going to have a trial at the DEI trial tribunal over there. You can't be free. Look at him. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for coming to Pumpkin. That's why I'm giggling. This is a fantastic, fantastic show. I want to thank Danny, Junseth, American HODL, Eric for being here. We're going to hang out. I think Jensen should sing us out. Sing us out, Jensen. Sing us out. Come on. You got it. Start spreading the news. Tip your part to these things. Good night. Do it. Do it.

1:22:14Do it. Do it.