How 2 Con Artists Stole $760K in Diesel Using Stolen Fleet IDs | WHAT THE TRUCK?!?

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0:54We'll be right back. Did you miss me?

0:57Malcolm Harris: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a brand new edition of What The Truck. I'm your host, Malcolm Harris, of course, joined momentarily by my brother, the partner in crime that I could not ask for more of, Michael Vincent. Guys, it has been so long. So much has happened since our last What The Truck. Of course, we had the Future of Freight Festival, which was fantastic. For those that were here in Chattanooga, I really appreciate it. We had a lot going on. I was also deathly sick, man. I had like, it was like not the flu, wasn't COVID. It was like a mixture of the two of them. But I'm feeling back and I'm better than ever.

1:37Malcolm Harris: And What the Trucks are going to look a little different. I'm going to put you guys on a little game. All right, so What the Truck is now officially going to be longer, but it's just going to be one time a week. All right, so we're going to have What the Truck Wednesdays from now for the foreseeable future. So what that's going to look like is not the fastest 45 minutes, but we're going to double up and we're going to say the best 90 minutes of the week. All right, that is now officially what What the Truck looks like. So for those that don't know, it is officially What the Truck Wednesday, and that's what it's going to be.

2:09Malcolm Harris: But now joining me here in studio is my brother, man. He is my partner in crime. You guys know him as the dude. I just know him as that guy. Welcome now, Mr. Michael Vincent. Mike, what's up, brother? Good to see you, man. If you saw the setup that's sitting out in front of me, bro, you'd be laughing.

2:34I got my old FreightWaves backpack sitting here with my phone, just kind of sitting on it, resting. I got a computer over here. I got a computer over here. I'm all over. It is the longest 90 minutes in freight. You know, and I don't even think it's going to be enough. No, it's not going to be enough. We're going to try. There's absolutely no way. There's no way it's going to be enough.

3:00Malcolm Harris: We're going to try. Am I glitching on your end or am I all right? No, you look good. You sound good. I'm sure you look like you smell good as well. I do. I do. I got some hair paste that is tea tree. Me too, man. For my hair? Me too, man. You got some wax. Tea tree wax. You got some Petri wax? Petri wax, no. Well, you're done. We the blessed. I love it, bro. Yeah, bro. Absolutely. I love my boy. Dude, no doubt. I was down for the count for two straight weeks, bro. That sickness is nothing to screw around with, man. I know so many people coming down with that stuff. Awful. Nah, it's terrible. It's terrible.

3:39Malcolm Harris: It really got to me. And I know Frazier was down sick, too. So I don't know how everybody else kind of survived, but it's all right. We're feeling better and doing better every day. I got some water on deck and I'll be ready to go. We got a lot to talk about, bro. I missed you terribly, first off. I've missed you. Bro, I missed you myself, man. It's been a bit, but there's been some F3 and some other events and stuff like that going on and changing the new format, that type of thing, which has been fantastic. I am here. I don't know if you see the Spartan shields behind me and the logo here, but I am at our CDL school, which is in Midlothian, SpartanCDLTraining.com for the elite.

4:28We were just meeting with the Tarrant County employment people and some other people here for bringing students in for our CDL program here. So I'm out here visiting and meeting with people at our CDL school just south of Dallas in Midlothian. And we have another one location up near my headquarters where I usually work just north of Fort Worth and Alliance. There's another school there that we have. But so I decided to just do it live here, bro.

4:53Malcolm Harris: I love it. I love it. I appreciate you being here for the call. Shout out to Carlos as well, man. I saw that Freight Caviar interview drop a couple of days ago, man. I saw it this morning. And, man, Carlos, fantastic dude, man. You guys got some real stuff going on over there at Carrier Spartan Group, man. Amen, brother. Amen. and the missions all to the glory of God, brother. We're bringing it. So, yeah, that's the thing, bro. Yes, sir. Well, we're going to bring it here on today's show because, I mean, this one on deck, you probably haven't seen an on deck like this from us in quite a bit. All right, so we got four guests.

5:26Malcolm Harris: That's a pretty good on deck, bro. It's a pretty freaking stacked lineup. Let's take a look at who we're talking to today, y 'all, because, again, we're bringing four guests to you all. The first is Steve Chabouski. You guys know Steve very, very well. He's the VP of Presales at MCA Connect. We're talking autonomous trucking, all right? It's already running in Texas, of course, where Michael Vinson is. So we're going to talk about what happens when, of course, a driverless truck pulls up to a warehouse that isn't ready to receive it. All right, so Steve's giving us a reality check on where this technology actually stands, all right?

6:00Malcolm Harris: Of course, the holidays are coming up, all right? We got Thanksgiving, and then Christmas is going to be upon us. We got Sarah Abernathy. She's the director of marketing communications at Kenworth. She's joining us to talk about the U.S. Capitol Christmas Tree Tour, all right? The 13th straight year, Kenworth is hauling the people's tree to Washington. This year, it's 76 feet, all right? This is an Ingleman spruce coming from more than 2 ,000 miles from Idaho. So we're going to break that down with Sarah. And then the jack of all trades is in the building. Jack Holmes is the new CEO of STG Logistics.

6:32Malcolm Harris: Started at UPS as a part-time package handler. and now my man is calling the shots at STG. All right, so we're going to talk to him about this new chapter after cutting, of course, so much in terms of dollars and debt to position STG for success. Great story. And then lastly, another CEO is going to be here from MW Logistics, my man Mitchell Ward. He is the chairman and CEO, again, of MW Logistics. Everybody's talking about AI invisibility. We talked about it today on Freight Waves Today, and we're going to get to the real problem. Mitchell is going to give us some insights about what's happening when data is right and nobody is acting on it.

7:13Malcolm Harris: So between Mitchell, Jack, as well as Sarah and Steve, guys, buckle up because the best 90 minutes and the longest 90 minutes in freight, it's about to get started in a hurry. Before we do that, this month would not be possible without the great team at Chevron. All right, this episode and this month, again, is brought to you by Chevron. That is our sponsor of What The Truck for this month. If your business has fleets to fuel, there's really only one way to go. That's Chevron. Again, if your business has fleets to fuel, there's really only one way to go at Chevron. That's because Chevron is the source for insights and fuel.

7:56Malcolm Harris: When you're ready to go, go to the source at regi.com. Again, that's regi.com, our team at Chevron. Thank you all so much for being the presenting sponsor of What the Truck. All right. What the Truck. Bills are paid. Bills are paid. But you know what we do, man. We're not going to not talk about the news, all right? And we got a little bit more time to really talk about it, so I'm excited. Are you ready? Are you locked in? Do you feel this connection? Because I feel it. I'm ready to go. I'm jacked, man.

8:35Bro, I'm pumped, man. I'm glad you got through all that stuff because, you know, like, talking about paying bills and all kinds of stuff, I mean, we love the people at Chevron or anybody who wants to pay our bills, right? You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. But let's, it means the juice. It's the juice that keeps trucking moving, isn't it? Stuff at Chevron. You know what I'm saying?

8:53Malcolm Harris: I know what you're saying. It wouldn't be a what the truck if we didn't talk about some type of narcotics bust to kick off our headlines. Because it's just who we are. Is that where we're going first? It's who we are. It's what we do. Yeah, let's talk a little narcotics. I love it. Let's talk a little meth. All right? So I'm going to put this in front of you guys. The CPB seized 1 ,000-plus pounds of meth in a produce truck at the Texas border. Again, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers that intercepted more than 1 ,000 pounds of methamphetamine concealed inside a shipment of leaks at the Hildago Port of Entry in South Texas.

9:32Malcolm Harris: So I want to put these numbers out in front of you guys. All right. 909 packages of suspected narcotics. The meth weighed approximately 1 ,082 pounds. The estimated street value was reported a little shy of$1 ,984 ,063. dollars a canine alerted the officers during the inspection the seizure occurred during halloween weekend and was announced the monday after and of course this was a part of operation southern surge which began on october the 19th all right this is a crazy one mike when you saw this where does your mind go because you're my calculator when it comes to these things is this legit or what was the thought process here.

10:16Malcolm Harris: What do you mean? Is it legit? Is this legit? Meaning does the, does, is the math, math thing? Cause sometimes the math, that math, if you get my drift. Sometimes it doesn't math. I mean, I'm looking at, are we talking about where the street price of meth has gone? That's what I was saying. That's what I was saying. Yeah. You know, I've got my finger on the pulse of illicit drugs and, and how much they cost and what the street value is, you know, cause. who i am brother who i'm saying i'm always looking at i'm looking at always looking at that type of stuff um so yeah they're um hard to pin down right but like in the midwest it's 45 a gram right now is where it is but if you look at it nationally it ranges from about 14 dollars a gram up to 125 bucks a gram which is probably like california where they tax the hell out of meth you know what i'm saying no they tax the hell out of everything but look look look too bad we can't use dogs to like sniff out and vet carriers you know before you even hire them you know what i mean because i mean that's what this was right the dogs like sniff this out i take a couple things away we need we need dogs at every single location to sniff out thieves because we've got a couple other stories here just like holy crap people just open your eyes and you could stop half of this stuff happening right and dogs are sniffing this this stuff out so vetting carriers with dogs would be fantastic the other thing is i implore you wash your vegetables did your mother not teach you to wash your vegetables when you bring them home from the store all the time that's a lost art i don't think people really understand the magnitude of washing your vegetables and you you you don't know what's on it i'm telling you once a month we talk about meth or cocaine or something being stuffed inside you know a vegetable shipment yeah right no agreed i mean like who where else are you gonna where's safer to to transport illicit or and you know illegal drugs than in a shipment of leaks who the hell's gonna steal leaks ain't nobody stealing leaks you know what i'm saying ain't nobody stealing leaks i guarantee you there's only like there's only like 10 of the of the viewership right not even knows what a leak is uh bro you know what i'm saying you you're a mess this one it was it was crazy i saw it from phil we got a couple more um and you can again look at this one it's on our Listen, in 1990, listen.

12:59Yeah, what's up? Early 90s, early 90s, you get 10 grand a pound. Inflation.

13:1310 grand a pound in the 90s, what was this worth?

13:16Malcolm Harris: This was a little shy of a million. For how many pounds? Like 1 ,000 pounds? Yeah, 1 ,000 pounds. Okay. yeah math is mathin yeah math is mathin let's look at this one from highway leeks don't cost that much that's for sure at least like a bucket of the weekend no leeks do not cause to cost that much at all at all I ain't buying no leek not 10 ,000 no that'd be some really good leek soup or whatever it is that you make with leeks no isn't it in the leek like a like a flavorless onion is yes that's that is what it is a hundred percent I know it's like a green onion it doesn't taste like anything it literally tastes like oxygen i mean that is what it tastes like it tastes like water but in just like a yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah gotcha brother gotcha let's it's almost as valuable as like say chips from nvidia yeah i would have to agree with this i would have to agree with this looking at this next one from nvidia well before we get to that one i'm so sorry let's let's look at this highway report real fast i skipped one oh yeah No, no, no, no.

14:25Malcolm Harris: That's on me. That's on me. That's on me. With Highway's third quarter 2026 freight fraud index, it revealed that compromised communications were involved in 40 % of reported stolen loads within its network. So carrier ownership changed reports increased 111.4 % quarter over quarter. Fraudulent and spoof calls blocked by Highway increased 90 % year over year. Hi-Ray recorded 184 stolen load incidents, down 28.1 % from the previous quarter, but up 8 % year over year. And then this is a number that I thought was pretty substantial. Direct theft incidents declined 16 % quarter over quarter, but represented 36.4 % of reported stolen loads, up 31.3%.

15:16Malcolm Harris: So the biggest theme, Mike, When I was breaking this down, brother, what I saw, the biggest vulnerability when it came to the game is email. So these criminals are gaining access to legitimate carrier email accounts and then using the familiar addresses to request these rate cons, shipment details, and other sensitive information. And that's how they're kind of getting into this aspect of being able to get the shipment and be able to redirect or be able to manipulate it into their gain, if that makes sense, bro. It is. I'd like to see what template they're using on these emails to say, hey, yo, can you just email me over that sensitive information on this$14 million valued shipment that we already communicated via our TMSs on secured lines, please?

16:05Malcolm Harris: Yeah, no, no doubt. What does that email look like? It's like, huh? For real? And you got to think, there's some suckers out there, specifically like the younger broker that is just in a seat, just trying to just get a sale. You know what I'm saying? And they're just moving quick, fast and in a hurry just to try and put as much, you know, GP in the system as possible. You know that they're getting God. You know it. You know that they are. And you run into this all the time. It is, you know, you hear haste makes waste, right? And it really does. in many cases, is people want to expeditiously get things done.

16:40They don't want to deal with the details. They don't want to, they just don't. And especially on a shipment that's already set up and everything like that. Now there's a new question. They've already set all this stuff up. They went through all the pain in the butt and stuff like that. Say, yes, here's the information. Just get out of my hair and make sure you make the damn pickup. That's probably what's going on because high tech is not stealing an email and sending in somebody an email and getting something done right that's fishing right i mean you you see that stuff all the time it's people still get duped by it but not people who have been awake for more than 24 hours really you know you know i'm saying like i can tell the difference between your email and somebody phishing trying to pretend they're you like that big country guy on uh on the voice i don't know if cody i don't know if cody's got a picture of that big country but i can even tell you apart from him no man when we both

17:32Malcolm Harris: got a beard when we both got a beard we we do look like twins i pulled it up earlier big country man he yeah i'll tell you i was watching and i'm flipping through the chest like what malcolm's on the voice what's up and he made it he made it to the knockouts or whatever the heck it is i don't know what it is but it was it was really interesting to see this stuff one of the interesting stats that was in there that you didn't mention was that 87 % or 85, 87 % of the carriers had at least one CDL driver that had like, that was a non-domiciled or was an illegal CDL, right? Crazy. Which is interesting.

18:11It doesn't necessarily mean that they were the cause of the theft or whatever it is, but if 87 % of the carriers, how many carriers actually still have drivers that are carrying a non-domiciled or an illegal cdl oh man i couldn't even imagine i couldn't even imagine

18:29Malcolm Harris: the numbers surrounded that when you kind of put it in that perspective yeah that makes a lot of sense uh yeah i see exactly what you're saying you know you know what i'm saying i mean that stat alone was like holy crap yeah you know i mean that's crazy and i mean in q3 so 65 i mean it's a small sample, right? 184 loads. It's like 65 to 70 events or something like that in Q3, which is not a huge sample that pulls that figure out. But I think it's enough to go, wait a minute. There's a huge trend that is going on here. And in this case, it wasn't necessarily the drivers of the CDL. I mean, how many of those drivers actually knew they were stealing something, do you think when it goes into this type of situation where somebody's stolen an email and they're setting up this load and they're doing this and they're sending a driver in there how many times does a driver of this carry not even know they're part of a uh a sting 95 percent of the time i mean i'm being generous i mean i don't think they necessarily know that's a follow-up question i was going to ask you is like all right at some point how are we putting too much emphasis How do I want to say this?

19:42Malcolm Harris: How do we verify and use better forms of communication when it comes to verification of a carrier whenever email is the primary driver of all communication? Like, what is another process that you can go through to ensure that you get what I'm saying? man yeah i i i do i mean if you're utilizing email and that is your main source of i mean what you might as well be faxing i mean faxing is probably more secure because less people have faxes right so faxing price shirts probably that idiot who's still faxing stuff right but if you're emailing just emailing straight back and forth stuff like that it's it's so open source and so easy to hack into obviously i mean look at look at what's going on here um what are you going to do and if the carrier is actually being duped into doing something because of that then i don't know how you how you ever how you ever defeat that i mean you there's plenty of stories where the actual if there was just a little bit of common sense at the pickup right yes for sure it would it would make it would it would make sense like i mean and we'll get into it in some of our our next stories where there's just look just use your brain and you know it it makes sense stealing emails it doesn't seem like you should be communicating your loads via email if you're shipping that type of you know what i'm saying i mean it's not like Like, we don't know who the actual shippers were, so we don't know how sophisticated those people were.

21:28I'm going to guess that they weren't really super sophisticated. I don't think Google or NVIDIA or, you know,

21:39a chip manufacturer or electronics manufacturer and that type of thing. I don't think Gibson Guitars is sending out truckloads of guitars via email.

21:50Malcolm Harris: no i don't think they're doing i don't think they are either they would send them to your email though if if they were they would send it to you because i mean you're just you're certified like that yeah i mean dell's dell's not going oh i got this email he's got truckers gonna be over his name is you know joe he's gonna be taking this 14 million dollars worth of stuff or whatever it happens to be that's that's not occurring right not at all i mean do we know what the value of of what these are these are probably low value type of things that people are seeing via email 1000 you gotta think that they have to be low value you have yeah i mean there's a lot of them that are going there and look and by low value i mean we got to be we got to be kind of kind of aware of what we're saying when we say low value it's low value as to like the percent of value freight that is moving but to somebody that is incredibly valued you know like a ten thousand shipment for somebody it puts them out of business for sure you know i mean it's statistically it's nothing compared to everything that else is going on but it could be massive uh to somebody who's you know not that big of a shipper 10 000 so uh man you got to be careful especially if they stole i don't even understand how that would work i don't necessarily go ahead i'm sorry go ahead brother i'm just i'm just saying how would it work if you i mean i'd love for somebody to chime in or give us a comment or whatever happens to be how do you steal an email address and then communicate back and forth yeah that's pretty sophisticated right and you should be able to track that i would think pretty easy it is i mean but with like you could you could like copy and you know make like a i guess an encrypted email i don't know there's so many things and that's just not a regular joe schmo type deal to your point like it's going to take somebody very special to be able to get in there, you know, properly bypass certain things from a cyber security standpoint, and then be able to recreate and then have communication that that's, that's an operation within itself.

23:50Malcolm Harris: So now we, we could talk about this one for, for 45 minutes if we needed to. I think so. I, you know, while we go through the other stories, I'm going to get on Claude and see if I can get it to, I got you, I got you. I got you. Claude is always, always our friend. See if I can get that done by the end of the show. No, you're good. Let's look at this next one from nvidia all right we talked about this and you guys have seen this a couple of weeks ago but i want to bring it to your attention again because we got some more details about it 11.4 million dollars that is what is in thin air right now again from a shipment of six pallets of nvidia computer hardware from oakland california to michael vincent out in fort worth texas all right so i want to put this one in perspective uh august 29th a truck picked up six pallets of hardware in oakland all right shipment was scheduled for delivery in fort worth the vehicle made several stops along the route some lasting multiple hours investigators then say there was a loss of the track of the truck in san bernardino county california which i'm laughing because you guys know about san bernardino there's some stuff that happens if you know you know september 13th the victim reported the incidents of the oakland police department and then police have now confirmed a grand theft investigation with this one.

25:05Malcolm Harris: I mean, this is just another interesting detail, too. The vehicle reportedly displayed the logo of a food transportation company. So we're seeing these operations, bro. Literally, the old vacant switch. This is exactly, exactly what you're talking about, bro. First of all, none of this makes sense to me. Zero. So, So, I mean, zero. So, I mean, were they, did they go back and recreate the GPS pings on the ELD to understand that it was at certain places for hours? Or were they watching this as it traveled from, right, from California to Fort Worth in 14 days? And how accurate was that watching? I mean, there's so many holes in this.

25:59Malcolm Harris: There's so many holes. I mean, did they pull it? I mean, and then they lost track of it and then reported it 13 days after pickup. I just don't really understand the details of what's going on here. What I do understand is that if I were working the dock at NVIDIA or whoever shipped this stuff, it's NVIDIA parts, I don't know that it came exactly from them. But whoever the distribution center, they picked it up. I'm probably thinking that that produce truck is not the right one to put$14 million worth of NVIDIA chips on. You would think. And that's why I wanted to bring this to us. Because I'm like, what?

26:41Malcolm Harris: Was there a transfer? Like, this makes zero sense. When I open that door and there's like, I open that door and there's a couple cases of leaks that are crushed on the side. Maybe some meth over here in the corner. I'm thinking, I don't know if I want to put this on this truck. Let me check my email. Let me check my email and see if this is the right truck. See if I've been spoofed. No, crazy. Oh, wait a minute. No, somebody texted me and said this is the right one. I got it. We're good. What? Yeah, I don't understand this. But it's not surprising that it's NVIDIA. It's not surprising that it's electronics.

27:22because that's what people go after, right?

27:24Malcolm Harris: Yeah, for sure. The interesting thing to me is like the top ones are like general merchandise electronics are like the two top ones, right? Yeah. Well, isn't general merchandise like everything? Isn't that what it means? General merchandise? You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Like the most stolen commodity is like stuff is what you're saying, right? General Merchant, unspecified, is the most stolen. But it's, I mean, you would think if somebody is handling this type of freight, that someone would question whether, you know, a truck that has Fruit of the Loom basket on the side should be picking up$14 million worth of computer chips.

28:15Malcolm Harris: No, no doubt. No doubt. I mean, it just seems like basic common sense. And I saw this when I was like, this is wild. So I wanted to bring it to your attention. Now, I have something for you with this next one. This next one, because I want to talk a little legal, right? Let's talk a little legal. Let's talk Rico. Uncle Rico is back in the house. Let's talk Uncle Rico back in the house, because we got some updates from John Kingston that I wanted to bring to you guys. All right, so not 2027, but 2028. We're going to get into this one right now. Now, six trucking companies are taking on, of course, two of the biggest name in freight brokerage.

28:51Malcolm Harris: This is C.H. Robinson and CQL in a RICO lawsuit alleging practices that involve illegal carriers, forced labor and the suppression of carrier rates. But don't expect a courtroom showdown anytime soon, folks. All right. What's going to happen? A proposed schedule puts jury selection in April of 2028. Right now, one of the biggest questions is whether this case belongs in federal court in Texas or whether it should be handled in Ohio based on contractual agreements. So I guess what does this lawsuit mean for the broader relationship between brokers and carriers? Is there a snowball chance, my man, that this is going to stick?

29:28Malcolm Harris: Because this is wild. Again, the timeline is November 23rd. We're going to schedule the conference. And then January of 2026 is the proposed completion of mediation. And then April 3rd is a tentative jury selection date. I mean, this could be well over a year before this even gets to a jury. Surely this doesn't stick. Surely not. Well, they haven't even, yeah, I mean, they haven't figured out even where, if it has to be in Ohio or not. Because one side is saying that, look, contractual says you got to do this in Hamilton County, right? because EQL is in Hamilton, like Cincinnati area, right? For sure.

30:08Yeah, so they're arguing you have to come here. C.H. Robinson is the other one, right? They haven't filed anything, right? They haven't even spoken up. So there's that, which delays things forever because, you know, they're going to take forever to decide what they're going to say when they say it. And they're probably waiting maybe to see this. I don't know. And then there's one carrier that doesn't have to worry about it because they'd never signed anything that said Hamilton. So you could have part of it tried in Hamilton and part of it in Texas. Obviously, TQL wants it to move to Hamilton.

30:41That's why they put it in their contracts, because it's favorable to them. But also, in this specific case, didn't they file this in a court that is known for being favorable to their cause against these brokers?

30:57Malcolm Harris: Absolutely. If I remember right? Absolutely. Isn't that right? Spot on. right so there's a reason why they chose texas and you know i'm all for justice but you know when you are specifically picking places based on where they tend to make decisions etc that seems a little bit like that shouldn't be a consideration but you know i mean courts have nothing to do with justice it's the law right i mean i'm not even saying that tongue in cheek it's it's 100 true it has nothing to do with justice it has to do with the law which is isn't anything to do with moral justice or anything like that, right? It's interesting.

31:36I mean, the thing with this that I'm most interested in, I'd love to hear Kingston's take on it. I'd love to hear Leffler's take on this. Matthew, my man, the armchair quarterback. Amen. And Craig. I mean, those are three people that I respect their opinions and their insights on these type of things quite heavily, and I should, right? I mean, they're pretty smart people. But as far as a snowball's chance in hell, Loeffler would be my guy to ask the potential impacts of this. Craig, I would ask, and I would think, I'm going to guess that the biggest impacts on this is the discovery about how decisions are made and the legal or documents, texts, emails, et cetera, that could come out as evidence as to how these brokers made decisions on what carriers actually got these loads and that type of stuff.

32:30There's the devil in the details, the damning evidence that's going to come out maybe not so much the rico case or whether they could prove a rico case but if it does go to trial and they do bring out all of that information what does that now mean right because you know as well that dude we both worked with brokerages we know what's going down

32:49Malcolm Harris: there everybody knows everybody knows what's going down everybody you talk about this too i mean we talked about at the freight brokerage symposium for f3 it's just like culturally what is a brokerage going to look like given this current situation and all these nuclear... Probably a lot less like a fraternity. Yeah, bro. I mean, it's going to look... The landscape's going to change 100%. So you're going to see this. And we got one more story. In all fairness, it probably needs to, right? I mean, it was cool. Beer Fridays, playing ping pong or cornhole and all kinds of stuff is cool. But, dude, there's serious business being done.

33:25Adults have to come into the room and make sure that.

33:27Malcolm Harris: 100%. I mean, these are really, really big financial decisions that are being made by folks that need to be in seats that are not only deserving, but competent enough to do that. And that culture does not conduce that. I agree with you. 100 percent, brother. 100 percent. So that's where I'd love. But I'd love to hear from. I'd love to hear Craig and Loeffler's opinions on what is going on here in detail. Yeah, for sure. Did you see this one, man? This is breaking today. this field card case. This is our last one that I wanted to talk about. So, saw this one, two Georgia men facing federal charges in connection with the$760 ,000 field card fraud scheme involving the impersonation of a legitimate Michigan trucking company.

34:13Malcolm Harris: This is, again, impersonation of legitimate organizations. We've been talking about this for the entire duration of the show. The timeline of this, all right. So, they rented an apartment in Detroit using an altered driver's license in July 2025. They then submitted a fraudulent credit application to coin oil and propane while impersonating Voyager Express's owner. So a legitimate business again. Then they got eight Pacific Pride fuel cards mailed to the Detroit department and then they received them 10 days later. This is September 13. So from September of 2025 until January of 2026, they generated more than 760 ,000 in unpaid fuel purchases and accrued interest.

34:59Malcolm Harris: This is bonkers. They're looking at 10 to 20 years if sentenced. And this took place across approximately 23 states. Brother, this was a straight up heist at its finest.

35:17Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. What did I write? My first comments where fraudsters are targeting the mentally challenged?

35:28Malcolm Harris: Yeah. Crazy. I think that's what the headline I would have written. It's like, come on, man. All right. So September, October, November, December, January. Five months. a a single account racks up 760 000 in bills and pays none of it yeah and your accounts receivable did what i guess what we were doing talking about it because they sure didn't catch it which is crazy it's crazy that you can account for almost a million dollars in unpaid charges when it comes to fuel ridiculous yeah i don't know how that works yeah over five over five months million bucks out your pocket and you never and your ars never went uh we got an issue yeah there's nothing that i mean and it's not like it was like the first half of the year they're trying to close year-end books and they're going um where did this money go um yeah it's and then it's crazy dude i mean it just shows you how vulnerable everybody is from all kinds of different angles You have to have security everywhere.

36:45And you need to be watching. Your simple business practice basics got to be followed to the T. Otherwise, somebody siphons off$760 ,000 from you. It's gone. Or somebody pulls up in a truck with fruit on the side of it and takes$14 million worth of computer chips. because of simple practices, just doing the basics stops this. That's my opinion in this type of stuff. Now, from a comedic standpoint, how are these guys going to explain that they're going to do 20 years for diesel?

37:30Malcolm Harris: Oh, yeah, and then for these amount of charges is ridiculous. What did they get out of it? Nothing. They got$760 ,000 worth of diesel. They actually bought diesel. right okay you go into 20 years for diesel i mean what what what did it fuel what was the diesel seriously what did this scam fuel both literally and figuratively that it was worth risking 20 years in prison crazy you know what i'm saying crazy did they need that diesel to run trucks to get leaks laced with meth across the border or what was it what was it what was the motivation it was because in the report they don't even know they don't even know where this diesel was what it was done it could have been you know what i'm saying i don't know what trucks it went in they don't even know or wasn't reported it was like negligence at its finest man it's just again so much to talk about so much to go through mike i will say we're gonna have to come back to your twr rankings because we got four guests in pocket and it's time to rock and roll are you ready is that that's my question bro i'm ready bro let's let's do it all right let's do it But coming to us now, I mean, you guys have seen this man.

38:39Malcolm Harris: He's been on What the Truck numerous amounts of times. The team between him, Katie, and the rest of the folks at MCA Connect are doing some amazing stuff. So now I do want to welcome, again, the vice president of pre-sales at MCA Connect. He is the man behind the mission at MCA Connect. He is Mr. Steve Shabushki. Steve, welcome to the show, brother. It's always good to see you. All right. Good to see you, Malcolm. How you doing, man? I'm good, man. How you doing? I'm doing great. I brought out my Spartan Green today because we, you know, took care of Duke last night. And I'm on a four-day tear here after beating Michigan the weekend of football.

39:22So, yeah, things are good. You know, watching that last night was great. Izzo, baby. Izzo for 29 straight years, right? He's going for 29 straight dances, isn't he? Is that right? Yeah, that's right. He hasn't missed one. So, you know, we're not accepting he's going anywhere. So he'll be there forever.

39:46Malcolm Harris: Shout out to Tom Izzo, man. That's, I mean, one of the best coaches in all of sports, not just collegiate. I mean, he is a dog. He is such a good, good coach, man. Go get me started. He's on my, like, got to have dinner with one time in my life list, you know? Oh, for sure. I'd love that. That is fantastic. Beating Michigan, thank you very much as a Buckeye. Please just continue to do that whenever you get a chance. Fantastic. 100%. That is fantastic. Love Sparty, especially when you beat the team from up north on the other side of the state. It's fantastic stuff, my friend. Cody, do we have Steve's picture?

40:27I started a new thing. Now I'm just going for cartoon characters, right? I don't know if Cody got these. There it is.

40:38there he is i love it well done you're like clods on fire today i call him uncle clod so uncle clod uncle clod he's on fire that's it that is your that is your sidekick uh uh your your forklift name dynamics um so you are You are slotting Steve, a lanky ex-college soccer player from Michigan State who wears a hard hat and carries a laser pointer and who can't walk into a warehouse without muttering, alphabetical order isn't a picking path. That is your, there you go, brother. That is you. It must be true on my LinkedIn these days. So there you go. Well done, Claude. Love it.

41:25Malcolm Harris: This is great. This is great. Steve, I want to holler at you about autonomous trucking. I mean, we talked about it a little bit on our pre-show call, but to put it into words, when people hear autonomous trucking, they tend to envision a future where the traditional truck driver disappears. Is that a realistic picture of where we're headed as an industry? Or what are you thinking off the top of your head? No, I mean, I think that picture does real damage, right? I mean, it scares people about the wrong thing. I mean, I think what we're at first, I mean, obviously we got some hype here. But at the same time, it's real, right?

42:06It's not a demo anymore. They're running lanes. And it's something that we're going to see now. There's hundreds of trucks autonomously in Texas running straight lines, and there's millions of trucks on the road. and none of the autonomous ones are running the New York, you know, or New Jersey turnpikes, right? So that's not stuff that's happening today. So we're a ways from, you know, what this is the long term. But at the same time, like, you know, there's something to be considered here. And, you know, I think, you know, I sat down and started to think about this and all the impacts. You know, we're still going to probably see hubs for a while.

42:45So maybe, you know, the work actually just changed. People still handle that last mile, the city streets, the customer, the yard, that kind of stuff, and maybe get away from the long haul for that type of thing. So maybe the work changed, the job changed. But, you know, so I don't think it's to say that the truck driver disappears. I think it just it changes where they do their work.

43:16so um what is your what is your what is your timeline for this right i mean there's we hear like was it aurora i think that was saying that like they're going to have like 20 000 of these things on the street by about 2030 some crazy number of the wasn't it i mean it was like thousands tens of thousands of these things i don't know if that's but what what is your timeline there and where do you see that rollout because you mentioned a bunch of stuff. Some of them, I totally agree with you. Some of them, I don't. I see the autonomy inside yards or contained environments being a thing, right? Because it's easier to control.

43:55There are definitely some challenges, but I would love to hear your opinion on that timeline. And where do you see this rollout? How do you see it happening?

44:08going to go mainstream in in five years 10 years probably not i mean i think that this is going to take you know some time but again it's real i do think that you know we're going to see this more and more especially in you know where we have some of the lanes that are just you know like Like where Aurora is, you know, Dallas to El Paso, Dallas to Houston, like you can run those, you know, autonomously and not necessarily have as much, you know, interference and things of that nature. So, I mean, I think we're going to see more and more of this. I say five years out, it's going to start to increase.

44:50I mean, if I were to say timeline, maybe 10, this starts to expand, you know, in the middle of the country. And I do agree with you about, you know, within the yard, there's like, hey, I'm a warehouse person, right? So when we talk about the impacts here, which I'm sure we'll get to, it's like the most interesting thing is like what's going to happen with all the other impacts and automation and robotics are everywhere. where AMRs moving stuff around is certainly a thing. But, you know, you and I have all been in lots of manufacturing and distribution yards, and they aren't always the easiest to navigate.

45:32So, you know, what is the timeline for those to do those intricate moves versus the line haul moves? And what's the cost? That'll be an interesting thing to see how that plays out. certainly so much is going into the tech but like that's one of the things that i'm thinking about is where you know what what happens after we make that run uh you know and we get it somewhere like what's the rest of this look like you know at the yard at the warehouse and what what's the impact

46:03Malcolm Harris: going to be so steve i want to talk about i guess whenever what happens when an autonomous truck arrives at a warehouse that they're not even fully equipped to handle it. And then a second aspect of this question is, I guess, some distribution centers, I mean, if not most, they're not operating around the clock with three fully staffed shifts. How does this create challenges whenever these autonomous trucks do arrive? Yeah.

46:38Yeah, what happens? It sits, right? Right. So and that's like the worst thing. It's the most expensive truck you have is a truck that sits. Right. So, yeah, a truck that can run 24 seven doesn't have the hours of service constraints. You know, our manufacturers and distributors today, you know, not all of them are running three shifts. And even if they are, they're not set up to do to to to take on freight at all hours of the day. So that's, you know, from my perspective, one of the biggest things. And, you know, hours of service has quietly set the pace for the supply chain for decades. When freight arrives, the docks are staffed.

47:18We've got the receiving crews clock in, and that's what they do. So I think the truck stops, you know, in these scenarios, stops being the constraint. And now it's the building, the people, the yard and things of that nature starts to shift if those are all prepared to execute. It's interesting because you talk about, in my opinion, you got long haul, which I think autonomous trucks fit in, right? I think they do. Especially the tweener loads where a long, you know, drivers don't want tweener loads, right? It's a day and a half trip or whatever it happened to you. Those suck for drivers, right?

48:00Yeah. And there's a lot more of that type of stuff as we change where our distribution centers are and that type of stuff. But then you've got the inside the yard, which I think makes sense as long as you design the entire operation around it, right? Like your whole ERP system, your whole WMS and manufacturing, whatever it has to be, has to be connected to the yard. And then it makes a lot of sense, right? moving stuff around that yard as long as you're controlling that but you can't have trucks with drivers and trucks without drivers intermittently and haphazardly coming into and leaving the thing right because then didn't or leaving the yard yeah and it sits there so then doesn't that start to and i'm wondering your opinion on does this not become a more collaborative industry-wide or an opportunity for somebody to take control of the rollout in a strategic planned infrastructure type of way if that makes sense right and didn't somebody already try to do that where they were building um like they were right who was that company that was doing that do you remember who that was they were building uh yards outside of of major infrastructure i know what you're talking about because we had him on the show um i'll think it's gonna bother me now go ahead i'm sorry yeah yeah but what's your opinion on that steve yeah well i mean i i think you like you called out a bunch of great stuff there it's like you know as we all know oh this is the part people underestimate like the the driver is a communication system right they call ahead and they're running late.

49:44They check at the gate. They're looking for the door. They're picking you to the spot. And so, you know, as we take that person out and then, you know, we think about if you're the manufacturer or distributor, as you said, we got to communicate with autonomous vehicles now and a lot of systems and infrastructure aren't prepared to do that. Like we're still, as you You guys talked about for the beginning of all, you know, the email is still the way to communicate to a lot of the appointment scheduling on both sides of the world is still done that way. Right. And so, you know, as we move into this in this world where there's not, you know, there's not a driver even in the in the in the mix.

50:30It's like this is where, you know, my side of the fence of just systems integrations. You mentioned ERP, WMS, TMS, yard management, all of these components, automation around the warehouse. Like it all has to be connected and potentially like be able to autonomously communicate with these vehicles. So it creates, you know, something for folks to think about. It's like, are they ready to be able to execute on the other side of this? The hubs, too, dropping stuff up at hubs and we have the drivers doing that final mile. Those are all things that have to happen. You can go back to the freight brokers and those types of folks.

51:13Like they're they're going to have to be able to build, you know, in these lanes would go autonomous and then pickups and shifts to and transfers, you know, between those trucks and other trucks like all this stuff's, you know, got to get worked out. And certainly an opportunity there for, as you mentioned, communication systems and automation between all between all of us.

51:37Malcolm Harris: Steve, we cannot thank you enough for being here on What the Truck. I know we wanted to get a longer segment, but we got three guests in. Michael, Vincent, and Malcolm Harris. If there's one thing we're going to do, it's talk too long. So we're going to have to move. But where can we find more information? I know. I missed him last time because he was out. I think maybe he was sick. But, look, thank you guys for having me on again. I'm being awesome. And by the way, I just want to, you know, before we exit here, it's Veterans Day. So I want to say thanks to every veteran listening and their families.

52:15So appreciate the opportunity and thanks to all of them for all of their service. So appreciate you guys as always.

52:22Malcolm Harris: We appreciate you and we appreciate our veterans as well. What would this country be without veterans? It wouldn't nearly be the country of the free and the home of the brave. So we appreciate you. And we'll talk to you soon, Steve. All right, brother. Thank you. All right, brother. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Again, Steve Shabuski with MCA Connect. He is fantastic. You know, with Steve, he had on this shirt and there's this thing that they say in Michigan State. It's go green and go white. Well, we're going to talk about something green. We're going to talk about something that is 76 feet and is green because she is coming back on the show.

53:02Malcolm Harris: and I'm really excited to have her back and she is representing a wonderful organization with Kenworth Trucking Company and her name is Sarah Abernathy. She is officially on What the Truck. Sarah, it's been too long. You're like Santa Claus. You only come around for the holidays. It has been too long and I am sad I left my Santa hat at home today. It's, you know, a little bit early but it isn't for those along the Christmas tree route this year. There's been a lot of Santa sightings already. Oh, man. It's so good. I'm going to tell you something. Sarah, my house has been covered in Christmas lights since November 1st.

53:47It is, I mean, the day after Halloween, I take down all my Halloween lights and all the Christmas goes up. I don't care about HOA. I don't care about neighbors. I don't care. It's up. And mine is up and it's going. I am Clark Griswold, except I'm better at checking the bulbs. You know what I'm saying? I know where it is, but... And I love it. Before we get into it, Cody, do you have Sarah's character here? Oh, wow. Yeah, there she is. This is Captain Sarah, a former tax accountant who used to work through spreadsheets by lamplight and then traded her calculator for Class A CDL and the keys to a gleaming Kenworth.

54:29There she is, man. Right? Oh, I guess that's a little spot on. And if I'm not mistaken, do you not race BMWs? I haven't lately. I will say that much. But I very much did back when I lived on the East Coast. I was very much involved in the autocross program there with our local BMW CCA chapter. So it feels like it's been a while. I'm a little rusty. yeah it's cool i'm not even cool enough to say i used to race bmws you know what i'm saying i

55:00Malcolm Harris: mean malcolm am i wrong no you're not wrong at all but you're so cool to me as is sarah you guys are the cool kids um sarah we we got so many questions all right 76 the logistics behind all this i want to know and then also the theme and correct me if i'm wrong over the river and Through the Woods. Tell us about the theme with this. And there's an inspired custom wrap with this, Kenworth, if I got that right. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, sir. So, Over the River and Through the Woods is actually the theme of the forest that the tree is harvested from. And that's the Nez Perce Clearwater Forest. Out of the state of Idaho, which is a state filled with so much pride, we had a number of tour stops to start off the tour in the state of Idaho.

55:48And as a part of that, one of the members of our team, J.R., he was actually at a few of those stops. And the words he used were, it was like Taylor Swift came to town. It was like the Beatles came to town. You couldn't imagine the celebrity that this tree was. And the theme, the over the river and through the woods, is really representing the Idaho State Forest and the forest and the pride that the state of Idaho has, both in the tree and in the honor that they have in taking the tree across the country with a carrier so wonderful. I just saw that was Monty's picture up there. And that is one of our fabulous drivers from Boise Cascade, who of course is based out of Idaho and helped to bring that pride along the way.

56:30That's fantastic. That is so cool. Can you explain what we were just seeing there a little bit? Because the logistics of getting that onto the truck and moving. Because we did this before in North Carolina, we talking about Christmas tree season and then like using helicopters to bring these things out and drop them, which I thought was really, really interesting. How do you get a 76 foot tree onto the trailer correctly, wrapped correctly so that you don't lose branches and then drive it across the country without losing pine balls all over the street and spreading pine cones everywhere? It's a wonderfully coordinated effort.

57:10And I will say, this is actually, not to take any little bit away from this wonderful tree, but this is actually the second tree that they had looked at to potentially harvest for this year. There were a number of different factors that the forest, again, this is all through the Society of the American Foresters and the U.S. Forest Service, in really coordinating and picking which tree is going to be the people's tree. The architect of the Capitol, of course, helps with that selection process too. But the logistics of it, there was almost a need to airlift the tree out. That was brought up potentially.

57:43And that is just because of how challenging the roads and the logistics can be of, you know, the windy roads in little remote parts of certain states, Idaho being one of them. And so at the end, at the end of the day, I should say, they were able to do kind of, I guess I'll say a traditional. I've only been involved with this for a few years. But from what I've seen, usually it involves a crane and they help to carefully hoist the tree up, right horizontally and bring it down onto that trailer. And of course, just for that short little hop from the harvest down to where what we call the trailer build site is, and that was in Grangeville, Idaho, that short hop, I'm not sure if you saw those photos there, but the tree was unsheltered, right?

58:23So we try and do that as short as possible. And then we get it into a location where it can be safely enclosed and made all cozy tight and get ready for its long journey across the country. There's a lot of water that goes into keeping the tree watered throughout the journey, too. They actually have to make stops and make sure that they're finding hoses to keep the tree nice. And it's thirst quenched throughout the long journey. So there's a lot that goes into caring for the tree once it's on the trailer.

58:49Malcolm Harris: Man, this is nuts. I could talk about this for two hours. Oh, my God. And we didn't even talk about the wrap yet. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah, like you said, build site. You build the trailer around it. Is that what you're talking about? Yes. It essentially gets built up. They usually will go into an enclosed location. So think of like a, you know, a hangar or what have you, that kind of a facility. And in this case, it was actually a mill, one of the Idaho Forest Group mills in Idaho. So again, so much Idaho pride throughout every bit of this process. But then they build kind of that enclosure around the trailer.

59:25Hale Trailer generously lets the Capital Christmas Tree team utilize that trailer each year. So it is a purpose built. It comes back and gets stored and used every year. And that enclosure that goes around it, of course, has to have a little window so you can check in on the tree and see its lights and all of the ornaments there and really feel like it's Christmas in all the communities that it gets to go to. So that's the trailer build process. But the wrap happens just before that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's pre-decorated? Wait, this is a pre-decorated tree? Is that what you're trying to tell?

59:55So they decorate kind of the tail end and they make sure it looks nice and festive, like you'd expect a Christmas tree to look. And then once the tree gets delivered to the West Lawn of the Capitol at the end of the month here, it truly gets decked out. Gotcha. Gotcha. It's absolutely fantastic and interesting. And by the way, I like the way you keep getting that product placement with your shoulder. Honestly, I keep forgetting. but I do gotta you're doing a fantastic doing a fantastic job with that do I get to track this like Santa Claus? can I track this across the country like Santa Claus or what?

1:00:38absolutely you can so we have a fabulous bit of technology on the truck this year and this isn't the first year that this has been the case but we have recently rebranded all the technology that's both in the truck and on the back end of that tracking portal. So we have a very specific kind of tree tracker that you can go and just like Santa Claus, just like the Santa tracker, you can go and track where that tree is along the way. It's a really great site. If you haven't visited it, it makes you feel like it's Christmas. There's a little bit of snow elements in there too. So it's a lot of fun.

1:01:11But that is all based on Packart Connect. And that's the back end system that really allows, you know, fleets and drivers and anybody who really needs to make the most of their truck to understand where it is in the ecosystem, any service that might be required, and of course location tracking and what have you. So the technology in the truck is just one piece of it. It happens to be used for some fantastic fun holiday cheer in this case, but it of course brings a lot of value to fleets. And this year we have a new 15-inch display in the truck and that's really, really been a great tool for our drivers along the way from the Boise Cascade team to keep their maps up front and center to make sure they have everything at their fingertips.

1:01:49And that all ties into that Pack Our Connect ecosystem.

1:01:52Malcolm Harris: So far. Sarah, I have another question. When it comes to arrival, I mean, all right, this is going to arrive November 20th is what we have slated on the docket. So there's like trucking enthusiasts, there's tree enthusiasts, there's like a lot of communities that come into one. How does this look with these different stops for taking care of the tree? And And then also, I mean, when you look at this journey, right, I mean, this is coming from the forest in Idaho. And it's going all the way to the West Lawn of the U.S. Capitol. What makes you most proud of Kenworth's role in this? Because this is, like, a lot.

1:02:32Malcolm Harris: Like, there's a lot and there's a lot a lot. This is a lot a lot. A lot a lot indeed. And you actually asked two perfectly aligned questions because what makes this such an honor and what makes it so special is engaging with each community, every single community along the way. It started with a big, I'll call it a bash in Idaho. The whole of Idaho came out to celebrate the tree. And it just so happened to be pulled by a Kenworth, which is just a few states. We're just next door. You know, we're not too far. And so there's a lot of Pacific Northwest pride in the tree this year, in the tree every year.

1:03:05and in what an honor it is to represent the people's tree and to carry it safely across the country. It's an honor and it's a privilege. And I can't tell you what element of it really, really embodies that, but it's the whole package. It's the celebration along the way. It's that we celebrate. I kid you not here, we have driver trading cards for each of the four Boise Cascade drivers who have graciously given their time to bring their services to life and to use their expertise to get the trees safely across the country. So we have trading cards to celebrate those celebrities. We have the truck.

1:03:41We have just, it takes a village. And when the whole village comes together, it is something that is beyond the magic of the holiday season. And we're just so proud to be a part of it.

1:03:50Malcolm Harris: Sarah, I am so impressed with you. I'm so impressed with your team at Kenworth. I mean, this is an amazing story. And thank you for just even coming on with the truck in this podcast. to be able to share a few minutes about what you guys are doing and excited to get this out and to support you all at Kenworth any way that we can here at With a Truck. We appreciate you, Malcolm. Thank you so much for having us. It's always a pleasure to come on and join you any old time, Christmas tree or otherwise. We so appreciate you. Thank you. No doubt about it. Thank you again, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Merry Christmas to you, Sarah.

1:04:23Malcolm Harris: Merry Christmas as well. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to you all. Happy holidays as well. Sarah Abinati again representing Kenworth. That entire team, fantastic stuff, man. I can't say enough about it. Absolutely. We want to keep going now. We got two more guests and some limited time, but we're going to make it happen because this guy is officially Mr. Make It Happen for STG Logistics, all right? He's been patiently waiting in the wings. He looks like he's ready to go. We're about to see if he's ready to go. We're going to put him on the hot seat. now the chief executive officer officially of scg logistics the jack of all trades mr jack holmes is in the building jack what's going on brother it's so good to see you hey guys good to see you too enjoying the show and that was one of the benefits of getting the wait is i get to listen to uh some great conversations so i really enjoyed it uh i want to echo what steve said and uh wish uh happy veterans day to all the veterans out there who've served our country so well.

1:05:25So, and one thing I'm going to do you guys a service and make sure that you sleep well tonight. I think the guy you were talking about with the, uh, the facilities outside the metros was probably Jeff Swenson with line hall station. Uh, that's exactly what it was. Jeff, Jeff's a good guy, bright guy in this space comes to it from the real estate end of things, but, uh, he's, he's got some things figured out there.

1:05:49Malcolm Harris: STG got the right guy. That's all I got to say. that's all I needed to hear yeah thanks you know who listen Jack it's a pleasure to be speaking with you Jack one and thank you for echoing the sentiments about Veterans Day I can't agree with you more thank every one of them for their service and the future ones for their service they're going to provide do you know Jack Cody let's bring up jack is known as the boardroom boomerang darios right see that he does everything he's out there his superpower is the merger magnet he can't walk by a company without it being completely transformed jack is the boardroom boomerang making it happen at stg there is his there's is there's a thing right there check out that picture 1979 look at that that's pretty impressive that is impressive is that claude claude never stops he never stops man that's when ups was probably still united parcel service 100 right it was yeah it changed uh about uh 15 20 years later yep that's right that's right i want to talk to because you've done it all.

1:07:15Malcolm Harris: I mean, you're not a stranger to the space. Your time at UPS, I mean, you've spent countless amount of time building this thing to this moment right now. Where are you at right now in terms of, you know, obviously the things that you want to accomplish at STG, but specifically, what's front and center for you that is just in the main scope of focus that you want to get done and build on what has already been such an incredible journey for you so far? Yeah, thanks. I think that's well-worded, that question, because I retired after being the CEO of UPS Freight for 10 years. And I think I retired for about eight days.

1:07:55I didn't like it. And I realized that I'm just not the retiring type. But what I've been doing for the last 10 years has really been board work, specifically working with CEOs and trying to mentor them in many cases. And, you know, I've had some great experiences with the boards that I've been with. I mean, with Lasertrack, OnTrack, Redwood, Werner. I was exec chairman of Emerge based out of Scottsdale with the Leto brothers. And I'm still the exec chairman of Assertus Automotive Logistics. But, you know, a guy came to me who's been trying to coax me out of retirement for about 10 years. And he said, I finally found the company for you.

1:08:41And I said, why do you say that? And he said, well, it's a portfolio. And I said, okay, that's what I want. I don't want to just run a simple company. I want a portfolio of separate companies and make them work together. And he said, the culture needs some work. And I said, okay, we check that box too. I love to work with people who have been kind of disenfranchised or challenged in some ways and bring them together. Because this is, for me, this is like a game. And the game is how do you get your team to work together to win the game? And so this fit and then, you know, put on top of it, they're coming out of bankruptcy.

1:09:21So the bad news was that the brand had been tarnished. And the good news was that we have a great balance sheet coming out of bankruptcy. It's like we're a new company that also has 15 ,000 containers at a time when it's kind of cool to own assets again. It hasn't been cool to own assets in four plus years. Well, it's cool right now. And especially if you have intermodal assets, it's especially cool. So kind of went into a business where the cool kids are back again and we're excited about it.

1:10:01Malcolm Harris: Cool kids are, in fact, back again. That is fantastic. I love that. I love that. Go ahead, Mike. I was just going to say, so let's level set where you're at there, right? You mentioned you're coming in after the bankruptcy, the restructuring. So let's level set. Where's the business? What's the biggest opportunity that you see right now for SDG moving forward? Yeah, so if you think about it, it's really six different businesses that are put together. And so I think the biggest opportunity for us and where my focus is, is just creating a similar customer experience across those six businesses. You know, ultimately, there is certainly a vision that we bundle up the portfolio and sell to customers all six, if we can, of those services.

1:10:49But the first thing you have to do is you have to create a similar experience for the customers in order to be able to do that. So frankly, there's an opportunity with each one of those businesses to bring them up again and improve the experience for our customers. And that's how I grew up with UPS. Back in the day, UPS, we were fanatics about service. And this company is going to be fanatical about service again. That'll be the foundation for it.

1:11:21Malcolm Harris: You know, I'm really, really impressed with you, Jack, because, I mean, all the restructuring, I mean, we talked about it just from a leadership perspective, a financial perspective. I mean, the service offering is still so robust. There's so many things that you can offer. I'm extremely, extremely impressed. I guess the next question I have is the next iteration of STG. With technology specifically at the front, I'm sure, of what you're doing, but also with people still remaining the fabric and the core of your business. What does this next iteration look like when it comes to tech investments?

1:11:55Malcolm Harris: Can you give us any insight? Yeah. So there's this kind of a two phase approach. approach. One is, you know, for the last two years, because of the issues of, you know, I'll just put it in kind of layman's terms, been trying to run a company like you would run a household that has too much credit card debt. And the credit card debt, when it started to be a problem, went from 10 % to 15 % interest. And eventually it went up to 29 % or whatever the the max interest rate you could have. It's tough to run a household that way. It was tough to run this company this way. It's tough to make those forward-thinking investments in the business.

1:12:39So the two-prong approach is really the first, is to invest in the individual technologies that the individual business unit needs to be able to compete in their space. That's job one. Job two will be then to bridge those gaps between the businesses to create common platforms which they can both run off of or eventually all six. I think that might be a bridge too far to find a platform where you can have six businesses run off them without impacting the customers, which we will not do. But that'll be more of the longer range view of it. That's so real. That's so real. Very interesting. So you mentioned that exceptional service, right?

1:13:29You're going to build this on exceptional service. Now, I've been 38 years in the business. And so, you know, do you want to do this productively? Do you want to do this cost effectively? Or do you want service? And the answer is always yes, right? Yeah, sure. to that question. And one of the, and you know, I don't know what your opinion is or not, but one of the impressive turnarounds in my mind was Chris Jamraz at Roadrunner, right? And he basically, he just had enough money to say, look, we're going to burn through cash and change this, and we're going to come out the other end on top, right?

1:14:05And they did a great job. What is your plan to answer that yes to all three? Yeah, well, Chris was exec chairman of this company for a while too. So, so obviously there's, there's some of that DNA here, but my approach has always been pretty simple. And that is to explain the long-term vision of the company, lay it out for our people, and then ask them what they need to satisfy their customers. Every single person who works in this company wants to do a great job that day. Too often we get in their way with bureaucracy, with lack of support. You know, for me, the solution to every answer in transportation is leadership.

1:14:51And I brought in some great leadership and we have some great leadership that was here. And we have given them the authority to make decisions again. But that is going to be the approach going forward. My job when I'm doing it well is going to be when I come in each day and I am given a list of tasks and a list of objectives where I can help remove the obstacles to my people's day. And my people's job is to go satisfy their customers. So there will be certainly a top line aspect of some technology solutions. There might be equipment solutions. There may be some CapEx solutions. But the bulk of this work is going to be done by the people who deal directly with the customer's freight, moving it because they're being rewarded for the results that they get and because we've given them the tools to do the job and they're not dealing with any of the nonsense anymore.

1:15:54Malcolm Harris: Well, Jack, it sounds like you got everything in a row. We are extremely, extremely proud of what you've done and what STG is doing. I mean, I can't think enough of all the success you guys are going to have in 2027. And we appreciate you just for being here on What the Truck. And look forward to having you back for a further episode just to talk about all the success that's coming not only your way, but the rest of the team at STG Logistics. So really, thank you. That's great. Yeah, we're going to get after it. So I look forward to giving you guys some updates as we go along. Absolutely. Jack Holmes, Chief Executive Officer at STG Logistics.

1:16:32Malcolm Harris: Jack, you are the man. We really appreciate you being here on What The Truck. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Jack. And lastly, all right, he is... I see him in preview right now. And this guy, he looks ready to go, all right? He looks like a mixture of me and Big Country from The Voice. And I don't think 10 minutes is nearly enough. We're going to get to him here momentarily. but Mitchell Ward is the chairman and CEO of MW Logistics and man this outfit this man is the the the intro I can't I'm giving I can't even precede him so you know what Mitchell get in here man welcome to what the truck brother I appreciate y 'all having me on I mean I watch you these shows all the time and I've never got a chance to be on one so I want to tell y 'all thank you for having me on and I hope I can do my part to make this thing successful.

1:17:26Malcolm Harris: Come on about it. I love it. I love it. This is great. This is great. Look at him. Just turn that hat around again. I'm locked in. I'm locked in. Let's get this Claude image up real quick, Cody. Let me see if we got something. I thought it was already up. Is that not Claude? Oh, no, We got it right here. It's right here, man. Yeah. It is mighty Mitch. Hey, Mitch, this is a fabulous thing. He flips burgers for his people on the 4th of July. He's got a beautiful wife right there. Texas State. Eat them up cats. Right? He's got his generals working for him over there, pulling it out. Mitch, the one thing that I learned about you was you don't quit, dude.

1:18:14I mean, you're like the definition of people's, like, failure is when you fail and you never get back up, right? You just keep bouncing, right? I mean, you have had it all, lost it, and brought it back. Is that right? That's correct. I always tell people, don't let failure define you. Let it develop. That's what you have to look at. Don't let failure define you. Let it develop. learn from those failures and continue to try to be successful in what you're trying to do.

1:18:48Malcolm Harris: Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Cannot agree more. Now, take us back. Take us back to the beginning. What was the vision for MW Logistics? How has it evolved? And why are we here today talking to the most handsome man with this cowboy aura going on? I mean, I'm impressed, man. So take us through it. Take us through it. Well, you know, the vision was when I first got out, you know, I had owned assets before and I figured out that that's the dumbest thing I could do because I wasn't very successful at running assets. And so the word 3PL came out and I said, you know what? It's really a brokerage, but if they want to call it a 3PL, I'm going to use that name 3PL and I'm going to, you know, start a 3PL.

1:19:31The vision was to make sure that we were growing a company that was always profitable and being able to get to being debt free as quick as I could. and this has all been organic growth. And so our vision was to be able to provide a service to our customers that bought value. Don't sell on price. Anybody can sell cheap. What is the value and situation we're fixing for that customer so we can be successful? I love that. I love that. I also love the subject of AI and I love the subject of data, right? I'm a big data geek. at Spartan Carrier Group up here. And we're just across the way over here over in Alliance Tech, just north of Fort Worth, my friend.

1:20:16We're going to have to hook up sometime, my friend. But you talk about data and people getting data and visibility. And these are buzzwords that people throw around. And they can actually be a detriment if you don't know how to use them and you can't take action with them. What are you doing with it? What do you see is what people are making mistakes with this ability to gather this data and then process it to take action? Well, first of all, you know, AI is a big word. Everybody's talking about AI, AI, AI. You better make sure you can get a return on your investment. And we have a rule around here.

1:20:50If we're going to buy some product, if we're not using 90 to 95 % of it, it's going to hurt you on your bonus pool. We don't buy these tools just to have them and say we're going to get 20 % out of that tool that we need. It's very important that your people are always informed of what's going on with the business. They know by, it's on a big 72-inch screen TV about that, who's lost money on the load, who is making money on the load, and what we're doing. You have to take data. If you come and look at our office, and I have to give that credit to my wife, it looks like NASA. When people come visit us, they're like, wow, y 'all are very technology set.

1:21:25We have that coming. Nobody uses data like you guys. Because data is going to tell a story. Whether you like it or you don't, it's going to tell you a story. but learning how to use it and having continued education classes with your team to say this is how we're going to use this anybody have any other ideas but once we decide on how it's going to be used making sure everybody's signed up and they're using the data the way we had made a plan for us use that data you know a lot of a lot of times you know the leadership you know they'll create dashboards and they'll create this stuff they never get everybody else involved what do the people want to see to make them successful at their job day in and day out they want to see how they're moving loads they want to see compared to the market when you look at what the market said you should have moved these loads at and what you didn't move these are you are you up or you're under uh you have to give that data to your people so they can be successful and help you be successful

1:22:23Malcolm Harris: you you've answered this for me already but i want you to really go into it because this is a people driven business that you know this better than 99 of everybody in this space how are you going to couple technology because you're going to have to have it whether it's these dashboards whether it's automated trucking whether it's autonomous vehicle i mean so on and so forth we can talk about it all day how do you couple that but then also enable people in the relationship aspect of your business to bring out the best in mw logistics yeah the co-operators like a lot of our dashboards that we use also goes back to the customer.

1:22:58If the customer's in a meeting, they want to know something about MW Logistics, they can put up a dashboard and tell exactly what we did. Are we on budget? Are we off budget? What our on-time percentage is? They can see. So it's real-time data to our customers. So we're sitting there having a top-to-top meeting. We can put it up right now. They can put it up at any time and see how we are responding to their service and what they need to be successful. Because it's important that the customer knows because a lot of times we're not their only provider. They have 200 providers, 300 providers. And we want ours to be easy to access, easy to tell you that we're servicing you as a provider.

1:23:39So what's your philosophy on the use of AI and people, right? And data, right? People are using AI to cut costs and automate everything, which tends to take away that human element and that ability to service and or create those relationships that I'm 100 % positive you are strongly behind a relationship business with your customers. How do you manage that balancing act? You hear people talking about AI cutting out people's jobs. I don't believe that. You've got to have relationships. You've got to have that human touch. I come from a football background. It's all about contact. contact contact contact you know i have i tell people i have seven rings on my finger and i understand how to build a championship team and what it takes for chemistry for well playing together and how to win and so you have to have that human element regardless of ai and it doesn't matter if you bring claw or all this ai in if your people don't you don't do continued education for them to learn how to use it properly it doesn't matter you have to use these tools to help to be better, but you have to keep training people on these tools to make sure they're using it properly so we can be successful for our customers.

1:24:56Malcolm Harris: Mitchell, I absolutely would run through a brick wall right now. I got one last question for me. It was really two, but the first, I just want to say congratulations. Again, you guys were named a finalist for the 2026 Supply Chain Excellence Awards in Sustainability and Environmental. How were you able to also push those initiatives forward as well for your organization? Well, our customers kept asking about electric vehicles, and we kept saying, no, we're not an asset business. How do we partner with somebody that has electric vehicles and be able to give them the value that they want? And so we really dug into it.

1:25:30And 53 % of our business now is dedicated to electric vehicles. And, you know, it saves them on fuel. It saves them on the CO2 out there environment. and most of these companies have a sustainability department that has great sustainability when it comes to packaging, when it comes to forklifts, but they just didn't have it on the trucking side. So we just kind of squirreled ourselves in that space and then started to become a leader in making sure we bring electric vehicles to these customers.

1:26:04Malcolm Harris: That's fantastic stuff. Mike, I know you're chomping at the bit. I wish we had 30 more minutes, but we got, it seems what, it's a two minute drive right now since we're all football guys.

1:26:16I'm telling you, man, that's what it is. Because you said seven rings. I'm like, holy crap, I'm talking to this Mitchell. That's what I'm saying. This Mitchell. I put them out in the lobby so people can see them and remind them all the time. They don't give these out. You got to earn them. You got to take them. You got to be part of chemistry. I was looking at that ring and I was thinking, uh-oh. And then you said, I was like, oh, it's this Mitchell Ward. totally unprepared. Unbelievable. It is a pleasure to meet you, sir. And who do you got as number one? I got Utah. Who's number one in the country right now?

1:26:51Well, I'm going to tell you, I wouldn't count out Alabama and I wouldn't count out Georgia. I mean, those are teams who have always came up and win and you can't count out Indiana. So Utah's playing good right now. But when you got to start playing those games that are back to back, that are going to be tough. Because you got some, you know, weak people in your schedule. Now, those weak people that you beat up on, when you get to the playoffs, there's no really weak people when it cuts down to so many teams. So how do you sustain injuries? How do you sustain everybody being healthy? How do you sustain keeping everybody at a high level, making sure they're going in and getting their treatment and ready to play the next game?

1:27:28That's the toughest thing about when you get to the playoffs. Everybody's hurt. You got to make sure all your stars and studs are on the field all the time.

1:27:35Malcolm Harris: I absolutely love it. Well, it's safe to say you gave us a championship effort here, and that hand's about to get a little more heavy. Mitchell, thank you for being here on What the Truck, man. You absolutely did your thing. It's been a true pleasure you being on the show today with us, brother. Thank y 'all, and I'm glad y 'all invited me. My son was in the hospital for 25 days when the last time this thing came up, and I wasn't able to make that show, but I was able to make this one, and I really appreciate y 'all thinking about me and giving me an opportunity to be on the show. Of course. well well wishes to your son as well and anything we can do looking forward to hopefully having you uh collaborate with michael vince y 'all got to get contact so i'll get you guys synced up get some uh good stuff happening out of the lone star state all right yeah amen thank you thank you god bless my friend yes sir all right thank y 'all we appreciate you and uh for our audience man as we are coming to a close here on with the truck we appreciate each and every single one of you all.

1:28:34Malcolm Harris: We had some great guests again. Our four that we had just left things with Mitchell. He was fantastic. Of course, we had to open up Steve Shabouski. He was awesome. Sarah with that tree story with Kenworth, as well as Jack Holmes leading the way at STG Logistics. This is the new look what the truck and we came fast and furious. It's not the fastest 45 minutes in freight but double that it's the fastest 90 minutes in freight and uh mr vincent any parting messages for us man hey just hey let's let's just echo to simon thank you to all you veterans out there god bless you thank you for your service uh country would not be as great it is without you peace peace and love that's all we need see you next time

1:29:41We'll be right back.