How To Know When It’s Time To Quit: With Ex-Google Brand Leader Nishma Patel Robb

30:33Nishma Patel Robb:funny thing is when I found it and it came at one of those wonderful moments in life when I really needed it actually and I wasn't looking for it I was searching for something else and it was one of those hidden boxes and I was going through it and I discovered this diary which initially anyone would think was written by maybe someone slightly younger because it was like black paper with a silver pen it was really beautiful but I reckon by looking at the what I wrote in there was probably about 20 20 probably about 21 22 yeah um and in there I'd written it was really quite clever but you know in the days before manifesting and vision boarding or any of that stuff right this is just me little nishmo is the way I obviously kind of guided myself no one had asked me to do it yeah and on one side I'd written things that I wanted from my career and things I wanted from my life yeah so things I'd wanted for my career was you know I always wanted to be a tv presenter I hope there's some really funny things in there about like I wanted to um you know go to lovely things and tell stories you know go to lovely things was a bit undefined so I think it was like you know go to like fancy shows where I'd seen other people do like corporate hospitality or travel or travel yeah and i'd actually put in that you know one day i will go to milan and one day i will go to new york um and i felt really bad when i read some of this stuff which is on one hand it was like wow i have achieved most of this list wow and i'd never taken a moment to stop and go hold on a minute this stuff was a dream before like an absolutely unattainable dream and i've done it and then also the things i've moaned about you know you didn't moan about getting on a flight to new york or wherever i was doing because i did a fair amount of travel and that was a that was honestly like a dream that i never thought would happen it was written with a real sense of like oh you know maybe this will become true and on the life side i'd put things like you know where i went to live the kind of apartment i wanted and all these things in there and some of that attitude some of it you know yeah was i'd probably surpassed in different ways because life had gone in different directions but it stopped me in my tracks because there was a couple of things in there that um beyond the kind of appreciation and gratitude was I was like I still haven't done that and actually when I sat down and talked to people about what I really love to do and I was in this point if it was around 50 a couple of years ago and I was having this decision about do I move on from Google where do I go and was it a different role is it something totally different and this book had arrived in my lap again and I looked at it and was that there and thought there are things on here that I from the 30 years had been chasing and I've literally put away and thought they would never happen.

32:57Nishma Patel Robb:And one of them was, you know, this idea of, you know, it's that point of communication of being able to go, why can't I be at the front telling a story? Why can't I be the one who is listened to and accepted and able to help others? You know, this idea of creating a space where you can kind of invite others into. It wasn't really as sophisticated as that, but if I look at what the meaning was, it was always around culture and, you know, storytelling and communication. and it was written more simply as a tv presenter and things like that but yeah i know if i translate it to my life actually it was a thing i'd always constantly been in pursuit of yeah so much of i'd got closer and closer to it but it's almost like i was holding myself back from stepping across so in that moment and a friend had said to me um you know write this career bucket list and she's like you can't be guarded with it you know just start writing then it's already sanitized as to what yeah you can do and she's like no you've got to like imagine 20 years ago 30 years ago but also I want you to project forward what would your future self thank you for the decisions you'll make today and that was really tough because I was like hold on and she said the way to train yourself into doing that was go sit here now and say what would you five years ago Nishima what would you have said to her now and said god I wish she'd wish she'd been bolder I wish she'd done that or well done for doing that and that was really good because actually I immediately was like oh i would have said to her she should have done this yeah done that but well done for this and had you left google by this point no i hadn't this was this was really the decision point for me so i've had a period of time of feeling stuck and frustrated and directionally i just you know it's a great job and that's the other thing you have a lovely job in a business like that everyone's like oh you've got a great job you know what is there to complain about and i did feel really guilty complaining at all yeah and definitely felt ed was slipping into a bit of victimhood around it you know because it feels like it's everyone else's problem and it's that moment of realization I sat there and thought this is not about everyone else's problems this is about me and the clarity of what I want and the reason why I think I struggled to articulate that within the space I'm in is because they can't deliver that and I looked at that list and the career bucket list that I'd written as a result of finding that and looked at that list and thought I can't do half of it maybe more than half of it in the environment I'm in at Google I need to break free of that and give it a go and go for it and it was in that moment I was like right I'm gonna do it and I haven't regretted it but it's not as easy and I'm very conscious about not selling this as a lifestyle or a choice yeah we're sorry it is a choice but not a lifestyle so I now again having gone through it I'm very able to say look these are the good things these are the bad things do what's right for you this is how to choose even how to make those decisions because that's where I struggled I don't think there was a framework or enough examples of someone doing what I was doing yes stepping away into that you know I've got two kids and a mortgage and all those things and I was going I was you know getting divorced at the time as well I was like what am I doing but that sense of belief of going I've got about myself and I've got to pursue this because in 10 years time five years time yeah I don't want to be a position where 55 year old Nishmao was going wish you'd done that yes now it's too late not that I believe in it should ever be too late but I just had that overwhelming sense of going the risk is less than what I believe is

36:15unknown host:the pursuit of reward and did you find that you were were you fearful because that is so

36:20Nishma Patel Robb:yeah terrified all the time still am still am I mean I think the fear is everything the fear is lack of confidence yeah you know belief and I think the only way I would have moved if I had still enough belief like my belief was greater than the risk and I think when someone's assessing at any point or any decision in your life you that's the that's the thing you've got to weigh up yeah if you don't believe more and greater the sense of feeling of that belief more than the feeling of risk that fear then don't move because you've got to work on that belief once you work on the belief and that is greater than the risk might be a little bit more it's greater yeah that's the point where you go leap into it yeah because that's it doesn't mean that wasn't fearful I still has but I was aware of it so it was you know fear of am I going to make this work fear of failure fear of rejection fear of everyone going oh see told you fear of maybe proving anyone right that I couldn't do it you know I think you can be closeted and go can I do something different yeah is this the environment that made me good um fear of going it was a dream I was chasing the wrong dream but there was the the sense of belief and instinct I had inside of me and this idea I wanted to live a little bit more in alignment with my values and and what I believe in was enough to kind of push me to say I'll manage that risk and a bit of my boldness and maverick yeah and was going I'll figure that out it doesn't even today every day I'm still riddled with fear but I keep I just push myself every day and I love I'm at my happiest when I'm learning yeah and I never would have said that as a young person ever hated like hated school and stuff but now I love those kind of the freedom that learning gives you because you don't know where it's going to take you if the challenge is moving from learning to action I just live in learning all the time yeah actually then have to make something happen with it and that's sometimes the fear so actually one of the things I've been telling people recently is I've really enjoyed kind of stepping into communicating more and building the business I am and the environment I am and telling the stories I am but video has been a bit of a sticking point for me which is man is because I have no problem doing this I have no problem getting on stage when I have to put a camera on myself I like literally turn into a newsreader it's like hi yeah it's so not me and but I'm like okay I'm gonna conquer that I'm gonna conquer that fear yeah and um I know that if I do that not only will I feel great about myself and that I've overcome something that's a really ingrained challenge but I also know I'm gonna be able to help a load of other people do it yes and

38:48unknown host:that really excites me yes I mean I was thinking I have the exactly same problem we should have something like therapy group we should yeah hi my loves just a quick pause to say if you're enjoying Wish I Knew please please please hit the subscribe button and leave a quick rating or review it really makes such a difference to the show and helps us to keep bringing you amazing guests and stories now let's get back to the episode um and i think that there's a phrase that um i love that just came to mind when you were talking then which is leap in the net will appear yeah i think that's it i hope i didn't muck it up no it sounds perfect but i think that that is is what you truly embody and so um you're at google for over a decade teletext you didn't mention by the way so you started as an admin girl you left admin i left as the md so that was

39:38Nishma Patel Robb:I was there in total for 12 years, but I moved up to really super senior positions, but probably seven, eight years in, you know, often lead like leading really, really big teams. And, you know, a lot of people are my age or older than me. And that when you're young and my first really big leadership management role with no training was I made a lot of mistakes, but I learned a lot. And I think that sense of fearlessness really came from that point. And I remember as I became managing director of the business, Daily Mail Group owned a significant share of Teletext and we were pushing more and more to be digital and the Daily Mail Group were trying to become more digital at the time.

40:12Nishma Patel Robb:And just the interfacing into the meetings with the people at DMGT, which was a very different culture, no women and certainly no people of colour, and it taught me so much about resilience and determination. but the other thing which I have been rubbish about in my life is also that bit about you know being a bit of a dog with a bone is knowing when to stop or give up and walk away so I've either stayed too long and you can only stay stay too long after on hindsight at the time you're like but I advise people like hey I think we should much more comfortable about moving yeah and that's associated to risk and confidence you know try new things have that sense of abundance like there will be something else don't worry yeah um and apparently maybe it's a it's a cultural and a generational thing is you know when i was growing up you had one job and you had it for 25 years so this idea that would move seemed a bit you know a bit flighty yeah but that was rubbish you know i needed to and keep doing that but i think at each stage there's a little bit of a sense of just holding on yes whether it's proving to myself or someone else i'm like and it's you realize how ridiculous it is when you then realize just holding on yeah but now i always say to people and I knew it was said to me and I was never able to do it is there is this sigmoid curve.

41:26Nishma Patel Robb:You know, anything you begin, you have a bit of a dip when you start, that's a reality. And then you learn and you grow and you grow and grow. And when you hit the top of the S curve there, that's the point at which you then should flip onto a new curve. Wow. So then you go onto a new curve and you'll go down a bit and then you'll go up. The problem is if you don't flip at that point, you then slide to dip. Yeah. And then that slide down is accelerated and I'll just come back out. Yes. And I feel that too often in moments of my life is I didn't jump at that point. Yeah. For fear, for the success measures, the ego, the safety, all those things, security.

42:00Nishma Patel Robb:So you don't, and then you're sliding down, and then you've got to scrabble and jump off. Yes. So now when I say to people is going, actually, and I'm now going forward, I would be really conscious of those moments of change.

42:11unknown host:And I think it's so interesting as well because I think there's a balance because there's also some, I think nowadays as well, there's a bit more of people jumping and I think that actually there is before they've yeah and in that dip I mean I remember um in some of the roles especially my first sort of management role I'd never really been a manager before and I was like I've got no idea what I'm doing I had people that were older than me and my team and I thought everyone hated me and I was just going through and I was going into meetings didn't understand a word of what people were saying and I remember just thinking I can't do it I can't do it let me go back into my old job and there's something in me that just thought stick it out you know it's only six months and in my last sort of couple of bigger roles that's definitely been the sort of time maybe six even to 12 months but then after that um it's not easy there's still learning curves all the time especially as you grow within an organization which you definitely would have seen especially at teletech being in so many different um roles in climbing the ladder as such but I think there is power as well in making it work which I think that maybe you've under rated in yourself there you're right you know that was

43:30Nishma Patel Robb:the ability to kind of stick with it and do it and as you're just sitting there listening to you say that actually and and because I'm now saying it to my kids and myself is there is there is you know your resilience is built up in those moments you really stick in and and persevere there is also the fact that you know having looked into a bit more neuroscience and enjoyed this kind of journey of discovery I'm having around you know this meditation or visioning or whatever is a sense of actually we're so conditioned as human beings that we love the comfort of where we are even if the comfort that we have is miserable it's like we become addicted to being miserable and we'd rather be miserable than to the fear of the uncertain unknown so the uncertain unknown might also be an unhappy state but it's it's in some respects we kind of retreat to the thing that's misery but in order to have momentum and progress in life we have to step into the uncertain state and it's that recognition that time is a continuum and just staying in there and go right you know I know this is going to be tough for six months for a year I know that I shouldn't have any judgment on whether I like it I hate it or whatever it is until March next year and it's that sense of being able to be okay I'm going to do this because what I would do is in any point and still do you know you sit in that bit the bottom bit and go oh god it's terrible let's run back run back run back or even if it's not run back you find the safe places and somebody asked me this question the other day and I hadn't really maybe we were having a discussion I hadn't thought a lot about it where they said no sorry it was at dinner was that recently and they said to me had I made decisions in my recent this period of time now as I'm building a business and figuring out where I'm going he said to me do you think you've made some decisions about the direction of what you're doing based on fear and certainty so he says you've kind of thrown the net to go I want to go here and do this and as you're climbing you know you're terrified you're climbing that that rock face and you lose your footing here and there and it's almost like well I should put my foot over there because that's progression and climbing is scary and I don't know but maybe I'll put my foot here and when he said it to me I said it and thought I absolutely am doing that I'm still doing that now so I'm sometimes making decisions that just let me cling on to certain things because they feel comfortable whereas it's that just the awareness of it is forcing me to go let that go as much as it's hard to and go here Yes.

46:03Nishma Patel Robb:And I think it's a continuous conversation you have to have for yourself.

46:07unknown host:Absolutely. And do you find that this is something I've definitely experienced more recently in the sense of leaving the big role? And like you said, everyone's like, you've got an amazing role and, you know, you've done so well and you're so impressive traveling on stage. leaving a role to go and start a business do you feel like the perception from other people got into your head at all or yeah still does so I think there was a number of things so when I left

46:40Nishma Patel Robb:um I had some very senior women who were you know friends and sponsors who would say what you're doing Nesh you know you should be trying to go into another big senior role because we need you and I said well I don't want to do that I want to do this thing over here and my My belief is I can build something as significant that will employ lots of women or create more diversity or, you know, disruption in our industry in the right way. Rather than me kind of taking a seat that exists, I feel maybe slightly shuffled around a table. And there's a bit of a bewilderment to go, well, why would you do that?

47:11Nishma Patel Robb:Because that sounds tough and you don't know if that's going to work. So there was that part of it. There's also the thing of like you lose when you walk away from a big job. There is so much of ego and identity. the amount of people who are really nice to you I hate to say not because it was me but because of the job they were being nice to the job title they weren't being nice to me or some of the things you were getting and that's me being very harsh but the reality is a lot of those quite superficial things that were around us were because of the job title not because of who I am so when you step away from it not only do you have this incredible sense of loss of identity and all the ego and all the trappings you also have this harsh realisation to go it's like being naked terrifying, like standing there and going, this is who I am and I'm backing myself to do and I don't have all of that lovely safety and sequence in the sparkle of what that life was and I do miss it sometimes, there's a big event happening today and I'm really aware of my jealousy and I think jealousy is the right word or envy or whatever it might be that I'm feeling today and I've been seeing stuff online and I'm not unhappy for the people who are doing it I'm like delighted for the people who will be stepping on stage and doing what they're doing today.

48:25unknown host:Yeah.

48:25Nishma Patel Robb:I lived, I ran that event and did it and it would have been me who was there. Yeah. And so there's a bit of me that's going, just I'm aware of that feeling going, okay, that's how you feel Nishma and that's okay. But you are now doing this. Yes. And one day you might be back doing something, not in that job, but somewhere else. Yeah. I've always been a big believer of build your own stages, build your own spaces. Yeah. But I think sometimes just the awareness of it helps me because I see it as partly my motivation. yes and also a reminder of what i've left behind in a good way yeah it's a bit like i left those things for a reason the bravery of walking away from that is my fuel today yes so when i'm feeling a little bit weak or a bit wobbly i kind of go i'm doing this though and that's my thing you know and it's it's it's just coming to peace with your own soul around this stuff but i do think it's hard i always think there's like there's without a doubt um i think we talked about maybe we should write a book about you know the seven stages of grief after you leave a job yes it's almost like grief i mean that sounds very extreme but there are stages you know the lack of the loss of identity the loss of purpose direction even busyness i was talking to someone um yesterday who had a big job at various tech places we are and she's gone off to set up her own business and she said q4 was like my busiest quarter yeah i'm not really busy and it's a bit weird and i said and i said well it's a bit like a drug you've got to get yourself off it yeah you know not being bombarded and and and also the mistake I made is sometimes filling my diary to BBC oh all the time and I think um I think when you talk about like I think the superficialness I've I've seen and

50:04unknown host:experienced so much as well right especially because I work in a space with creators and it's all about what can you get and when you have a big title you know people want to rub shoulders with you and that disappears quite quickly and you do realize who was really there and who wasn't and I think something I witnessed was some of the people that I thought would have been there yeah were not but the people that I didn't expect were all rooting for me yeah and that's something that I think can be quite surprising as well is actually your supporters and your fans yeah you might not even be aware of no you know and I think that with the stages as well and being invited to events and things I I also really believe that things come around in different forms so when you talk about an event today who's to say that in five years you won't have your own

50:58Nishma Patel Robb:version of that and that's what I started to do this morning that's my idea is visioning going you know did my own thing in a few years time yeah me inviting people onto that stage to do So I do, I think that lesson around who's around you and also who I had around me, you know, I think it's both ways. It's the people I thought I needed or wanted and then realized actually they weren't necessarily good for me as well. Yeah. So I think there's a real shedding of skin that kind of as you step out to that, it is, it's uncomfortable. But I have, I value the people around me much more than ever before because actually they see me and not the title.

51:35Nishma Patel Robb:I actually think even our connection is you reaching out I was having this conversation I never thought of you as Emily plus job title I thought of you as Emily For me it didn't really matter where you worked I had found an immediate attraction from who you were The way you, your vibe and whatever it was And I think now I live my life in a way That I'm really happy to be so much more in tune with that And I actually think there's a lot more people in corporate starting to do that I think it's a really interesting state of play at the moment that actually the last few years of disruption and more challenge, even, you know, physicality of where we are.

52:14Nishma Patel Robb:I think people are creating a little bit more distance to their workplace. Yeah. And it's good. It's a healthy thing. But I hope through that there's also a bit of distance that allows that re-evaluation of it's not a family.

52:25unknown host:Yeah.

52:26Nishma Patel Robb:You know, you can be really close to them. You're really good people. You don't have to be in each other's pockets. But also, like, it just gives you perspective. and I think I had lost perspective so many points in my life I lose perspective now I'm just just having that awareness to be able to sit with those feelings of going okay so I feel like that today that's yeah that doesn't make me a bad person it's like what is it what's that fuel to do

52:47unknown host:and actually it does help me dream bigger yes and I have you ever read The Secret or watched it

52:53Nishma Patel Robb:many many years ago oh so I watched the movie which is this yeah I haven't watched the movie I've rediscovered, actually it was an audiobook she was on a, she's not done many interviews, she did her first interview with Oprah, God in the 1980s or whatever, when she first wrote it and then hasn't really done it since and then she did a podcast recently, which is what brought it back to mind, I was like oh god I haven't read that for ages and then at the weekend I had the audiobook on in the background while I was doing stuff and it's such a great reminder of the things that we say out loud and the stuff that we, you know, we not just put into the universe but we believe yes and I think so when I have fear or I have you know jealousy or concern or envy or even it's some nostalgic look at my past and it is often nostalgia like we don't remember everything as it was you romanticize so much I always say to people when I'm romanticizing oh would it be great maybe I should go and get another job what I always say to people is I remind myself of that worst meeting which was usually end of the year performance reviews for like 150 people it's just painful yeah I'm like no I don't want to do that But I think this sense of actually going, hmm, okay, well, what do I want this, you know, imagining and being able to really build that future vision.

54:05Nishma Patel Robb:And like I was saying to you at the beginning here is I've been playing around with a bit of the various imaging AI tools actually to create an image for my future. Yeah. And it's because it becomes so firm. And actually that for me is a big part of the motivation. and I think your point around appreciation we can be really blind to the things and the people we think are important and yeah influence so the voices that I used to listen to I cared about like what do they think and what will they think of me doing has been a real lesson because actually through the joy of social media and LinkedIn and some of that I've been a lot more active and sharing and talking I have met so many incredible people yeah who reach out to my dms and honestly It humbles me every single day.

54:50Nishma Patel Robb:I just feel embarrassed sometimes. But they write something and go, thank you so much for saying that. Plus you love this and that. And you're like, wow. For so much of the time, you're just like, I'm speaking into the kind of ether. Who knows? And you don't know. Yeah, I get it. And you go, that's why I'm doing this. Exactly. I love it. It's a reminder. There's like billions of people I've not met yet. Yeah. So like this idea that I was like, oh my God, you know, I'm not in that space. I'm not doing that. I was like, great. I'm not. Because now I get to go meet all these people. Whereas before I was like in a little tiny bubble.

55:18unknown host:And you're in a completely different space. And that's the thing. It's also your impact and almost like the scalability of that impact is potentially going to be limited when you're in those roles sometimes because you're, you know, sort of surrounded by the same types of people.

55:34Nishma Patel Robb:Even if they're the most brilliant and brightest brilliant people, actually, I think you need to have, you know, so with the Glitter Sphere, I've got two different things I'm doing now. So with the Glitter Sphere, which was the initial kind of thing I set out from Google to do, it was this belief that I wanted to use my branding skills and my ability to, you know, tell stories and, yeah, I never thought about building a personal brand, but it's kind of effectively what I did. But we now live in a state and an economy where actually your visibility and how you're perceived is really important. You know, I spent too many years just grafting, thinking my good work was going to be enough.

56:08Nishma Patel Robb:Yeah. Realizing, actually, you've got to tell your story. You've got to tell people your impact. No one's just going to find you. You know, this idea of everyone's going to come and this idea of like no one's coming. You've got to do it yourself. Yeah. And so my belief was to go, how can I help other women who might be feeling stuck, who might be indecisive about direction, or just need to have the confidence and the tools to be more visible where they are, whether it's their own business or in a business or wanting to lead. You know, the lack of often leadership training we give people is actually what's the support environment.

56:36Nishma Patel Robb:So I talk about helping people go from invisible to unmissable, which again is like most of us are really uncomfortable with even saying that. Yeah. I even spoke to someone this week who I'm coaching at the moment who said, oh, but it's not about me. It's just about my team. And I said, it's a little bit like when you're on an airplane. and I know this sounds like well cheesy but I'm going to say it but that thing of like put your mask on first before you help others.

56:59unknown host:Yes.

56:59Nishma Patel Robb:You building a personal brand is not about your ego. You know I say to me visibility is not vanity, it's power. Because when you do that that's when you invite people in. If you don't invite people in then you're an arsehole and then you don't deserve. You kind of get discovered nowadays thankfully. Yeah. But if you build and I always talk about it's not fame it's influence. If you can build influence you can just do so much more. Yes. And if you choose to do good with that, and I try and make sure that calling my brand Glittersphere, I was hoping is an immediate filter to there are certain people who are not going to be attracted to that.

57:33Nishma Patel Robb:And I'm like, that's fine with me. You don't want to work with those people. That's fine. They can go somewhere else. But the ones I do work with, I see them go on this journey and I get so excited when I see these women and it's predominantly women I work with. I do have some male clients as well, but predominantly women who go from either not sure or stark or not do it. And then you just see them. and what I see them do though is when they flourish and they're more open and more common they are bringing other people with them yes and that's right that's the chain reaction it's always that belief of like you can help 10 people but the 10 people will help 100 people 100 people you know etc it moves on yeah um so there it's like helping people just to find their story and the biggest part of that is a self-reflection and the work you're doing yourself yes and then there's tips and tricks of like we both know how to do branding and marketing and yeah distribution of telling your story so I use all that experience to go let's do it this way but it's businesses or individuals and then the podcast side of the business so as co-founding Hero which is the UK's first female-led and female-focused podcast network is my mission I've been on most of my life is to be disruptive and ensure there's more voices and and disability for women and underrepresented groups because whether it was at youtube or whether it was years ago and it was tv or whatever it was there was a male bias or a bias to a certain number of voices um and with podcasts being as influential as they are i want women to be influential where they are but i also want us to have the roots to have influence if we're really going to change things so yeah my simple thing is like help women to tell their stories and be better at it make sure those stories get heard and discovered yes and i feel that for me as i'm now at my intersection of life of you know being that storyteller putting myself forward as you know tv presenter podcast whatever it's called um but surrounding myself with people who are rebels as well you know so i talk about it as the kind of sparkly revolution but it's a sparkly revolution of rebels you know who want to reinvent who are resilient who want to rebel but do it our way

59:38unknown host:exactly the way we've been told exactly um there's so much i could ask you about that i feel like we could be here all day we're going to go into some quick fire questions um so let's go it's going to be typically five ten minutes but okay we'll see how we get on best piece of advice you've ever received

1:00:00Nishma Patel Robb:the best piece of advice i think i've ever had was this um it's that sense of no one's coming you know this i think too much of our lives is reliant you know we're almost kind of putting our destiny in someone else's hand so when i was little my mom used to say to me you know and we're hindus and so there there's a degree of kind of like karma and spiritualization of things i'm not particularly religious but i kind of understood that sense of being and she used to say to me it's in your palms you have your destiny you're in control of it i didn't really understand i was younger wow and then realizing as i got older how much of my agency i was giving away by not taking responsibility or accountability of my direction of that.

1:00:40Nishma Patel Robb:So I think that, you know, no one's coming is sage advice.

1:00:44unknown host:I love it's in your palms as well. That's so powerful. She's like believes actually like even in what's it called palmistry and stuff. Yeah.

1:00:52Nishma Patel Robb:But yeah, I probably have consulted more psychics than I have coaches. Oh, me too.

1:00:56unknown host:It's a lot more about me. Yeah, no. We'll have to swap some numbers. I've got my, it's my sister's birthday this weekend and I messaged her this week just out of the blue. can I buy you a psychic reading for your birthday?

1:01:07Nishma Patel Robb:My daughter's asked it. She's like, mum, for my birthday, I want to have a psychic party. And she'd seen some, there's a part where it's a psychic night. And I was like going, really? And yeah, we should swap numbers. Yes, psychic Jane is very good. Oh, okay. She operates out at Selfridges and apparently is Kim Kardashian psychic.

1:01:25unknown host:Oh, I think I've heard of these ones.

1:01:27Nishma Patel Robb:She was quite good when I met her.

1:01:28unknown host:Yeah. Okay, and a failure that taught you the most. I don't like the word failure

1:01:34Nishma Patel Robb:No but failure is important Because I've definitely failed at quite a lot of things I think that my greatest failing Is actually not believing in myself So when presented with opportunities I didn't back myself And I let things pass me by And maybe there's all good reason And it happened But definitely my failing is not leaping When I should have done So whether that's time in a job Or not going for an opportunity Not backing myself to do it And walking away when you can realize that it doesn't matter what you do, it's not going to happen. And I think that's my greatest failure, of which I have multiple examples of that through my life.

1:02:12unknown host:A book or podcast you recommend to everyone?

1:02:14Nishma Patel Robb:So book is something I read quite recently and I absolutely adore her because she was actually my first hire at Google as well. And then you always knew she was destined for greatness in the short term that I had to be in her life. But Anne-Laure LeCamp has written a book called tiny experiments and it's really brilliant for everything we've been talking about now but also how i'm wired in this sense of like big goals and we set ourselves out to do these things and big leaps even that i'm doing and her going how she's went off and studied neuroscience and there's kind of like real um logic and data behind it but a lot of heart and emotion is this idea that we should treat life as a whole series of tiny experiments and it's those tiny experiments that kind of like shift us along in there but it's safer and kinder to ourselves and those tiny experiments could be anything yeah but actually where i felt sometimes really stuck looking at the mountain ahead of me um employing her belief and approach to saying okay yeah it's a little bit like you don't eat the whole elephant at the time kind of thing but this is slightly more scientific and easier is actually just setting myself little tiny experiments and giving myself the freedom to fail at them as well but just being conscious of that so that that is a really a must read for a book she's having an absolutely brilliant time with the success she's having with that um and in podcast wise i am a huge mel robbins fan oh yeah but i am i love politics as well so i'm a real like super fan of scott galloway yes carous wisher yeah love the pivot

1:03:48unknown host:i am i actually met him in can once is he tell me he's exactly like did he live up to expectations yeah I mean well it was a I think it was at a party and I think I went up to him and I was like I listen to your podcast and he was like what do you do and I was like oh I look after influencers at Amazon and he just looked at me went yeah of course and then just sort of porked up

1:04:11Nishma Patel Robb:he has a mullaby now I don't want to stalk him I think I might just I might embarrass myself if I may because I really like him that much yeah but then I don't want him to disappoint me I've I've had like you probably have had we've had an opportunity to meet so many amazing people in

1:04:23unknown host:my life yeah and they don't all measure up yeah no it wasn't it wasn't probably the right time to to meet someone so yeah going and poking him apart what I like about him I was thinking about

1:04:34Nishma Patel Robb:the other day is he's because he's so unguarded he doesn't care for rules he's intelligent he gives and I love that I think that's what I admire to be like I want to be a bit more Scott Galloway

1:04:44unknown host:yes yes and that is that element of I don't give a fuck what people think he kind of lives and breathes that.

1:04:50Nishma Patel Robb:So maybe it's like a mash-up of Mel Robbins and Scott Galloway. And actually I heard the pleasure, I was on a trip with Spotify last week and I had the pleasure of meeting the Ghost Huns. Oh, wow. That's another good podcast tip. I've been listening to them a bit before, so I was really excited to meet them. And these two wonderful ladies are, as they call it, Ghost Huns. Their fans are called Huns in the Wild, which I love. But basically, they have a lot of chat between them and they're very entertaining, they're both comedians. But they effectively tell ghost stories. When at the end of each show, they talk to the dead through some kind of seance.

1:05:21Nishma Patel Robb:But it's brilliant. Oh, my God. Okay.

1:05:23unknown host:I want to check that one out. Something we haven't actually spoken about much, but probably could do another conversation on. One piece of financial advice that you think every woman should hear.

1:05:34Nishma Patel Robb:Yeah. And I know we should have a whole series on it. It's my biggest frustration. I certainly, at the age I'm at now, I'm embarrassed at my lack of knowledge around personal finance still now, even though I have an awareness of it. and the advice I would give to any woman is to think about investing. I'd always believed investing was for people who had lots of money and you could only invest big sums of money. I have learned more recently that micro-investing, and actually, when I talk about micro, I'm talking about really small amounts, and there are great apps and tools to do it, but wealth creation comes from smart investing.

1:06:15Nishma Patel Robb:And I never had that attitude. You know, I grew up of an environment where it was you worked out your outgoings, you worked out what your incomers were. And that was it. I was always overspending because I like shopping. Yeah. If I had had an attitude and someone had said to me, if you do this, it's tiny amounts, not going to hurt you too much. Yeah. You do this in 20 years time, you're going to have that. Yeah. I think I'd had a very different attitude to it. But we need more female financial advisors because I have never met one. I know they exist, but I personally never met one. and all the financial advisors I've had, I don't think they were mean people, but they were so condescending to me that my analogy is saying, it's a bit like not looking after your teeth and having to go and see the dentist.

1:06:54Nishma Patel Robb:You don't want to go. My eyes are going to go, oh, did you do that? And it's embarrassing. And actually someone was saying the other day about pensions. Oh, it's Monzo. Actually, I haven't looked into this yet, but maybe another good tip, is that Monzo now have a facility that you can, because you know you have pensions all different. And you can consolidate them. Yeah. Yeah. They do it for you. Yeah. Oh, good. I'm glad you've done it. And it finds it for you. Because you forget like a job you've done. I was like thinking the other day, I'm sure I had a pension in that company. What do you do with it?

1:07:22unknown host:Yeah. I know. They just sort of go off into ether and you have no idea where they go. And I think it's so true about those small amounts. That's something I don't even know why I decided to do it because I also love shopping. And that's where all my money's gone and on fancy holidays. Yeah. Same here. But with my pension, and I don't know how many companies do this now, But, you know, some companies would do the contribution match. And so you can say I'm going to contribute, say, three or four percent and they'll match it or whatever. And I've always gone for the highest amount. Same. Someone, yeah, someone told me to do that.

1:07:55unknown host:And I don't know why. But again, it's like however much out of your account each month, a small percentage of your salary. But over the amount of years that you're going to be working, it's the biggest game changer later on.

1:08:07Nishma Patel Robb:Yeah. I think that and the investment is, and I do think nowadays the tools available for investing are just so good to teach you and to start doing it. But I think I implore to every woman I meet to go, please, please start thinking about investing. One of the things I want to do through the Glitter Sphere and also through Hero, actually fundraising in Hero as well, was I was really conscious with Hero. I wanted to create an opportunity for women to invest because I think wealth creation is really important. and I am also keen to invest in other businesses. So I'm trying to work out to go, is there some money that I could try and squirrel away to create a little pot of money that I can go and invest in other female founders?

1:08:47Nishma Patel Robb:Yeah. Because we know the stats. I mean, it's absolutely embarrassing that how can it still be 2 %? Like I just, I just, it's still, I struggle with it. Like who, like where, anyway, 2 % of investment money goes to female founders. Insanity. Yeah, because women have proven to actually deliver better returns. so I now want to do a bit more of that to think actually can I do some micro investing in some businesses to help along the way because A the returns are significant but also we'll feel good about it.

1:09:15unknown host:Yes, yes exactly what's on your current vision board? Oh my goodness, well if you can having done it at the weekend

1:09:23Nishma Patel Robb:so I'm launching my podcast soon Glitter and Grit Stories of Resilience, Reinvention and Rebellion and that is very much on the vision board because I want that to be the platform and vehicle for not just the conversations I have but the impact it can have the pathways and opportunities it can create so for me that vision board is flying around the world because I like a fancy holiday and nice clothes was always a prerequisite for any job I wanted to do and being able to sit in beautiful studios like this and tell stories and do them with heart and with people so I don't emulate the demigods and some of the nonsense i've seen elsewhere but to do it in a totally relatable way yeah i think if i could for me on the vision is i'd absolutely see that in my future um and the impact of what that has is being able to like i see myself doing that and the other place i see myself is i went to see mel robbins live earlier this year wow so good she was really great but being in a room in as in the hamsmith apollo and there's like how many hundreds of people in that room thousands of people in that room and it's when they walked out seeing them lifted yeah i'm going to do that that's what i want to imagine is that i don't know whether it's the o2 or something that i'm able to get up on stage with lots of other wonderful people like yourself and others i curate a show and our end goal is to empower imagine like charging up 80 000 women yes and they go off and do incredible things in the world and men actually i don't want exclude men from my journey here yeah men only um i get excited about the catalyst of what that will create yeah and i hope i'm living somewhere really lovely in the future in my vision board i have somewhere living somewhere hot yes i'm a sunny girl so am i what's the sun sun are you aries oh i'm a leo okay yeah yeah yeah see yeah i think there's that for me my children you know when i look at that vision board for me it's definitely the lifestyle and the impact i want to have more than anything else.

1:11:26Nishma Patel Robb:And I just, that was on that book, Little Nishma. I want to deliver against Little Nishma's dream.

1:11:32unknown host:I love that. I absolutely love that. And I can't wait to listen to the podcast and come to the show when you make it happen. Nishma, what a perfect way to end today's episode. Thank you so much for coming. Love, loved it. Could talk to you forever, Emily. Likewise. Thank you so much.

1:11:48Nishma Patel Robb:Thank you.

1:11:55Thank you.