Nikhil Kamath ft. H.E Omar Sultan Al Olama | The Case for Youth in Politics | Special Ep

30:40There is a saying, you can trick many people for a short period of time, or you can trick a few people for a long period of time, but you can't trick many people for a long period of time. And this is important because if you apply Machiavelli's thinking to any parents that acts philanthropic or acts kind or acts like a family man, especially in our day and age with social media it's absolutely impossible because you will have one bad moment and it will come out regardless of how you portray yourself in this time it's very hard to apply that and i think in most times actually the the curtain always opens up and people see through it and see what's behind it so it's very very difficult to sustain this for a long period of time you can go back to history to see people like commodus for example in the roman age he acted brave and he acted kind and he acted you know generous and so on so forth but he couldn't sustain it and people saw through it in a short period of time now without going into history let's talk about practical realities you have different examples from different parts of the world i'm not going to mention the bad examples in certain geographies but i'm going to mention some highlights and you can actually come up with your own conclusion there are people that were born in societies that were extremely wealthy that portrayed themselves and these are princes that portrayed themselves as generous and all of that but with time people saw through it and there was a revolt against them in their countries and and there are numerous examples whether it's in Europe in the beginning of the 20th century or even the end of the 19th century or in different parts of the world.

32:31So I think there are numerous examples of that. There are rare examples that have sustained for many, many centuries that we are seeing being role models here in the Middle East. So what most people don't know, the Al Maktoums who rule Dubai have been ruling Dubai since 1833. Not a single one Throw out whatever you can read from history And whatever I'm seeing right now From my interactions with my leadership Not a single one puts on an act So, you know When I work with The science sheikh Hamdan What he is on social media Is what he is on reality Is what he is on the streets And people actually are shocked when they see That what you see is what you get He is kind, he is loving, he is generous And he is all of that because these are people that don't care about perception.

33:25They care about legacy. And with that focus on legacy, they understand that their message is far larger than individual. Their legacy is a legacy for a nation, for a people, and for a country that will stay for many, many years. The same is true. Many people don't know this fact. So the Al Nahyan family in Abu Dhabi is one of the longest reigning royal families in the world. So they have been reigning for over 300 years. And what you have to understand is it's very, very hard to continue for a long period of time and get positive results for all of this time. So if you look at Dubai and you look at Dubai from the early 1900s to 2025, there's only one constant.

34:13is regardless of the challenges, the trajectory was always up. It wasn't because of oil. There was always opportunities. Pearl trading, being a trading hub, focusing on the internet when no one focused on the internet, and so on and so forth. It's because the system works and because the leaders are able to plan for a legacy rather than plan for an election or plan for a short-term focus. I'm not saying this to try to convince you that our political system works for everyone. I think it works for us, and it works perfectly. And other political systems work in other places. But the righteous prince, the benevolent leaders, are going to continue.

34:57They continue for 200 years, I think they're going to continue for longer than that. History has kind of not been testament to that, right? Like, you have benevolent leaders for many generations, but how do you ensure that the benevolence continues in perpetuity because nobody can control how their kids turn out to be in perpetuity so you know there's if you look at the history of the world the world goes through cycles, cycles of change for those who believe in democracy they will look at the cycles where it's only democracy but even democracy is changed right you know there is a democracy it goes back to becoming a monarchy it goes back to being a democracy and so on so forth you have to understand first the construct of the political system you have to understand the construct of the society you have to understand what the results that you know are are gained from from this construct are before understanding whether it's going to last or not.

36:11Our political system is very different to the political systems that you think exist elsewhere. Because most people look at our political system and they put a Western lens to it, right? It's very similar to the political system in the UK or the political system in Germany or wherever, when it was a kingdom. Our political system is built on a few fundamentals. The first is there's a very close bond between the tribes and the leadership. And these close bonds are bonds that are historic. So the concept of a majlis where all the families and all the people come and meet with the ruler is actually the most democratic thing you can see anywhere in the world.

36:56The fact that I can see the president of my country, and not just me, Another Emirati that lives in Al Ain That has a small farm Another Emirati that works in the company Can all show up to his majlis Can meet with him Can tell him what they need Can tell him what they think Can tell him, for example, what works for them And what doesn't work for them Is the best system you can ever see anywhere in the world If you go to meet with the president In many countries There are so many different hoops And red tape that you have to jump over To get that appointment And when you go, it's a photo op and you leave The Majlis happens weekly Every single week, people go and meet with the ruler of Dubai or the ruler of Abu Dhabi They meet with the president They actually speak, they sit and see others They share ideas, they share concerns They share insights of what is happening on the ground that most of the times, by the way, people try to ensure that leadership doesn't get these messages.

38:02And these things lead to results. And the results today, you can see them. A country that started in 1971, that had 45, I think, university graduates, being one of the most prosperous nations in the world. The result of that is a result of a system that works. It doesn't just work for the Emiratis, because we've benefited greatly, right? You know, you're seeing today our country is being considered one of the most prosperous countries in the world. And we're living a great life, you know, thank God and thankfully because of our leaders. But even those who are non-Emiratis are reaping the benefits of the system.

38:44A system where today, to every day, tomorrow is better than the day before it. In the hardest of times People are reassured That you'll all be taken care of When COVID struck Everyone was talking about death And everyone was talking about Pandemics and lockdowns and so on and so forth The very first thing I heard from my president Was He said, and he did this publicly In front of everyone, he did a majlis And he called people and he said Don't carry a single worry And he didn't say don't carry a single worry if you're Emirati he didn't say don't carry a single worry if you're Indian he didn't say don't carry a single worry if you're rich or poor he said it for everyone and he said as long as you are on this land you are taken care of and it's a very beautiful statement to make in many countries they made similar statements and people died anyway but there was action that followed and the results that were incredible and this is what people need to see your political system needs to achieve that for you.

39:49This is success. Success is results that don't just cover a certain portion of the population. They don't just cover a certain portion of a social class. It covers everyone. From the outside looking in, I'm enamored by how exceptionally well this region has done. I think thanks to people like yourself and your predecessors before you. I'm trying to figure out why. Do you think the system works because there are a million Emiratis and 10 million expats and there are 11 million in the country? Do you think the same political system could work for 100 million people? Actually, I would argue the system should not work because of this demographic construct.

40:42Isn't trust highest in smaller groups? so you're talking about trusting government or trust in what exactly when i read books about how political systems have been formed it feels to me like most people are almost socialist when it comes to their family when there are three or four people they are they open up a bit more when it goes from their family to their community and when you talk about a country with millions and millions in some cases billions of people there is no interaction there is no majlis there is no seeing the ruler of the country of whichever country in even in democratic countries there are many pockets of power but there is rarely interaction between somebody living there with the people in a position of power in that geography so how do you keep this trust not for a country with a million citizens but with a billion so I'm going to give you an ignorant answer here because this is going to be me assuming that what I'm going to say is going to be appliable to that country so please take it with a grain of salt I'm going to tell you the hardest thing ever is managing a country where a vast majority of the populace is a populace from every walk of life, from every country in the world.

42:10There is a sweet spot. So managing a billion people is very difficult. Managing a hundred million people is less difficult. And I think, I wouldn't say it's easy, but if you have the right populace, if you have the right country, it actually leads to incredible power and results. Look at Japan. Today a country like Japan has 100 plus million People that are all of the same background Of the same, you know, cultural ethnicity And there are so many beautiful things about Japan That we all admire when we go and visit We admire how orderly the country is We admire how clean it is We admire how people are thinking of themselves as a collective Rather than themselves as individuals So there are so many things to admire Now, a country like the UAE Where the people that, as you said Are your people, are the one million It's very difficult to achieve similar results to Japan Because everyone's coming to you with their background With their culture, with their history With their understanding And there are those who are They believe that they need to keep the country clean There are those who think that you can just throw anything out of the window And it doesn't matter There are those who are loud.

43:29There are those who are quiet. You have every different type of person. Why does this system work? This system works not because it is easy, but because the right fundamentals were put in place from the get-go. If we didn't do the right thing when the country was established, so the population wasn't 10 million, right? The growth that you're seeing, and the growth that you're seeing even now post all the success, the snowball being even bigger and faster and moving much more than we did when we first started as a country means that everyone comes here because the value this country creates for them and for their livelihoods and for their future is higher than being anywhere else on earth today we're not attracting those who are looking for living paycheck to paycheck we're attracting every walk of life from the top of the pyramid to the bottom of the pyramid look at the Henley index for the migration of high-network individuals.

44:30So the highest inflow of high-network individuals in the world was to the UAE and to Dubai and Abu Dhabi for three years in a row. 10 ,000. So depending on the year, the number was 10 ,000, 8 ,000, 6 ,000, but higher than anywhere else on the planet. And those people can afford to live anywhere else on earth. And they can get the best service wherever they go. Why didn't they choose to come here? Right? And the answer isn't size. The answer is the quality of the product. The quality of the product as in the government that they're dealing with here is different to any government they're dealing with anywhere on earth.

45:09I can afford to live anywhere. I can afford to pay the taxes. I can afford to buy the apartments. I can afford to hire the help. The quality of government is better than anywhere else in the world. The quality of infrastructure is better than anywhere else. And is the quality of government better because of less interference from the government? So government shouldn't be in your face. This is something that we believe in. Government is here for one purpose. It's here to ensure that your quality of life is better tomorrow than it is today. Every single day. And we don't need to point out that we are the government and we are here to do this job, right?

45:46It needs to happen by complete autonomity if possible. I'll give you a simple example. If you go to land in most places on Earth, you're going to see that you land, you are greeted by an officer with a gun sitting across a counter with a bulletproof glass in front of them, and you feel intimidated. And they look at you with this very intimidating look, and then they look at your passport. Some countries are a bit more friendly, but generally speaking, it's a very intimidating experience. Why did the UAE decide to offer a service, which you can try by the way if you visit here often To offer a service of smart gates where you don't have to deal with a single person You just walk across the airport, you don't even have to pull out your passport, right?

46:34As a government, we're doing our job in the background You are getting the best in class service Can other governments do it? Absolutely We believe that our job is to do our work and give you the best in class service possible And this is why you're seeing here that government doesn't interfere. Government doesn't have to be something that you interact with if you don't need to interact with. We are here to offer the service that you need to get. But it just doesn't stay with the government and, let's say, the role of government. It's true for infrastructure. People don't care, you know, how many people are working on this road or how much I spent on this road or how the road looks like.

47:14They care about the quality of the road, right? We are upgrading the infrastructure every single day. And the fact why we're doing it is because we understand the quality of life improvement is huge. So when people can go and live anywhere on earth, for them to choose to live here, means that this system is a system that is universal. And it's not a system that is a system of a rich country versus a poor country or a big country versus a small country. There are countries that are in a much better situation than we are in. So if you look at Libya, for example, Libya has a population of around 8 million.

47:47So they're not very large, a homogeneous population. One of the richest countries in the world because of natural resources. Today, you can go to Libya. It's a war-torn country. So what they lacked is a secret ingredient, which is good leadership. And I think we always discount the impact that leaders have. But I believe the most important thing for any country is really good leaders. I think that's incredible. The no government interference, no intimidation. I can see that when I go through the airport. And I think it makes a big difference. For example, when I'm going to a Western country or coming here, the difference is fairly stark.

48:31The tax arbitrage also plays a big role as to why people come here. And do you think that will stay forever? I know you have corporate taxes now, but you don't have capital gains or income tax really. If people from other countries continue to move here to take advantage of that tax treatment, they're not essentially earning their income in this country but spending their money here almost. Do you think that could go on? Why do we have taxes in the first place? Great thought. I agree with you. I wish they weren't. No, no. I don't think there should be or shouldn't be. We have to understand the purpose.

49:12The purpose of the tax is to balance the budget. At the end of the day, you have to invest and you have to spend. So you have the capital expenditure that you need to spend on for your infrastructure development or new sectors or so on and so forth. And then you have the operational expenses that you have to do with salaries and so on and so forth. So if you are a bloated government, you will need more taxes. So you will find different domains to collect as much tax as possible. If you are a lean government, you will actually spend more on investment rather than on your operations. If you are a government that tries to diversify your streams of income, you can offer the most favorable regime.

49:51So we as a government today have diverse streams of income. Today, VAT is 5 % in the UAE. And the more people consume, the more income there is for the government. It's great, right? So instead of actually making you pay capital gains tax, The fact that from your 5 % VAT I can make a killing as a government and make a big return and balance my budget is great. The same is true as well for all the sectors that the government has gone in where the focus is in the UAE. The sovereign wealth funds, where the focus is global. The government-related entities that are global in nature, whether it's the port operators, the airport operators, the airlines, the banks.

50:33we always throughout our history have never thought of ourselves and confined ourselves to our geographical boundaries we always believe that we can be a global player in anything we do and with that we're able to create streams of revenue where others are looking at challenges that they can't overcome and this is the thing if you understand the principle of something so why do taxes exist if you understand why and you understand the fundamentals of it you'll be able to create a regime that works for all parties involved, where those who come here can, you know, take home a big portion of their income, where the government can balance its budget, and where the investments can be made for the quality of life to be better for everyone.

51:15No, fair point. I think the only point where I could contest there is for a lot of these people, for a lot of these people, say, coming from India, for example, or coming from different pockets, the tax that they're not paying is not on income earned here. They're earning the income in other countries. The profits are registered here and then they don't end up paying tax, even if the budgets of the country where they're actually earning the income is not balanced. So that's actually changing with the OECD Pillar 2 structure that's coming into effect, where you have to pay the corporate tax at the country that you are generating the income from.

52:04So for him to pay himself or for that person to pay themselves, they need to first pay the corporate taxes and then, you know, distribute the dividends. So I think the country that they're operating in, where most of the wealth is actually generated, will have to actually generate some sort of return from their business enterprise. So I think that's going to be overcome. The reality of the matter is you can't get it right for everyone, for every country, and for yourself. Today, we are doing what suits the people here, what suits our budgets, what suits our system. And we won't come and preach that this is the right model for everyone.

52:46Again, you know, it's good to understand that we are in a position to do that today. Most people look at this and they say They can afford to do this because of oil revenue A city like Dubai has no oil revenue So Dubai has creative ways of balancing its budgets Of making investments, of growing as an economy And this is the thing When you have good people running the government That think of ingenious ways to always diversify to always cover whatever gap might exist, they'll be able to find solutions where everyone wins, not one party or one specific demographic. For a long time, I've heard rumors of a mat, like a minimum alternative tax, pushed largely by Western countries where they are seeing the migration out of.

53:38Say, for example, the UK has a lot of people moving here now. Do you think the world will come together and at some point have something like a mat where immaterial of what country you are and where in the world, you have to pay a 15 % or 20 % tax? I think the right way to go about this and answer this question is we need to organize a meeting between you and our Minister of Finance who can give you more details on this. I'm not sure if it will work. Personally, speaking from my vantage point, I don't understand how these global deals when it comes to taxes are put together and how much leeway you have as a singular government or a bloc is possible, especially in dealing with these Western countries.

54:20So I don't want to give you an answer where I'm not sure how it's going to play out. But what I will say is whether you pay tax somewhere or not, what people really care about is if I am actually investing my time, my effort and my hard earned income in this country, what am I getting in return? What is the quality of education? What is the quality of hospitals? What's the quality of infrastructure? What is the quality of the business environment? And as long as the answer is, it's high quality and the impact is positive and net positive for the individual, then it's great. When the answer is, it's actually negative and you're spending money, but you're not getting anything in return from your government, the answer is always going to be, there's something where there's an issue of sustainability there because people are going to get frustrated at one point in time.

55:09and Omar if I may ask we left the part between school and how did you become a minister at the age of 27 after not having come from a political family to a father who was in the army and a mother who was a principal were you a good student? so this is a wide ranging discussion which I love we're going into philosophy and politics and other things and taxes so I was a good student I was a nerd as you can tell in school. So there were a few things that happened between school, university, and work. The first thing was I really wanted to study abroad. So I wanted to go to Harvard after finishing school.

55:53And, you know, that didn't work out because my mother at the time felt like it's better for me to stay close for two reasons. 9-11 happened a few years earlier. And there were hate crimes against Arabs and Muslims in the U.S., which really struck a chord with her. She felt like, you know, if we go there, someone might target us for whatever reason. So she said, I'd rather you stay home. The second reason was, you know, the world was going through so much turmoil. So I graduated in 2007, and I went to university, but at that time you could feel like there was something that was off. so our stock market boomed and then dropped and then started booming again and people felt like okay there might be something lurking in the horizon so there was a sense of optimism and pessimism so my mother and my father were saying it's better that you are close rather than you go abroad the second thing is I decided with them that if I were to stay and study here that I will work and study and the reason why I wanted to work and study is because I felt like I wanted to understand what comes after studying and to understand what the business environment was like this was one of the best decisions of my life and one of the most painful decisions of my life because I decided to work in a bank during the merger of two of the largest banks so Emirates Bank and NBD so I was actually working between in these two banks while the merger was taking place and then the financial crisis struck and I got to see firsthand what happens to the world when there's a financial crisis.

57:41I got to see firsthand the way the world changes from euphoria to complete terror from tomorrow being a good day to people packing up their stuff and feeling like their life is completely destroyed and I was working in something called the retail credit center where people actually apply for loans and they would get the loans. So it was a devastating experience but it was a grounding experience. I understood that we should never take today for granted. No matter what the situation is we should understand that we are privileged in the situation we are in and we need to work a hundred times harder than everyone else to be able to deserve the place we are in.

58:29I left university after I graduated. I graduated with a degree in business management. And I was a great economics student. I actually loved economics and, you know, wanted to pursue a master's degree in economics. So I started a business venture, a distribution company, because I believed that I should do something there. My father told me The only way to get by in life Is to get a pension And he said if you don't have a pension You don't have a safety net So I told him dad If you believe that this is What I need to be doing Tell me where you want me to work And I'll work As long as it makes you happy I'll do it So he applied for me To go and work In something called Telecommunications Regulations Authority Where Spectrum Regulation is done for the telecom operators, signal distributions given to all the different entities that require signal.

59:34And an interesting thing happened. So in the job interview, I was sitting across the table from a few folks, and they said to me, where do you see yourself in five years? I told them I see myself as a minister. And they laughed. and they said we like the confidence this is what I see I might be wrong but if I really pursue this and if I choose to stay the job I think I'm going to become a minister and they said

1:00:12What makes you think that you're going to get the job? I told them, I don't know if I'm going to get the job. I know I'm going to be the hardest working employee here. And I know that I'm going to learn the job faster than anyone else. And I got the job. And there was a deal that was struck. And the deal was that they're going to give me the job and then see post my probation how well I do. And I told them, whenever you assess me, if I turn out to be a good employee, I would love to be able to go and work In the ITU headquarters in Geneva And I wanted to go and work in Geneva for two reasons The first is because I wanted to pursue a master's in Geneva And the second is Whenever you're stationed abroad You're able to experience life outside your country And I think that's worth a lot of value for any person So the assessment was done I passed the assessment I turned out to be a good employee They said well done And then they said to me Well we'll send you in two years We sent someone else We didn't think you were going to make it And I felt That maybe you know I can't really stay in this place So I wanted to resign I told a few friends I decided to resign The interesting thing is The following week Out of the blue I got a phone call And they told me We have a few questions To ask you Please answer these questions I told them what this is for They said it's just relating to an interview For a job I told them I didn't apply anyway They said yes but we have a few questions So the question was How many people are in Dubai Mall right now And I remember it was a Tuesday morning And I came up with a number I gave them the logic for why I came up with that number and they said to me okay how many people are in the cinema of Dubai right now I thought that was very odd I came up with the logic kids are in school, people are in their jobs tourists probably will go to the cinema but there are these number of tourists potentially etc etc great thank you very much and the person hung up having worked in the Telecom Regulations Authority I understood that in most offices, they have IP phones.

1:02:39And IP phones, if you change the last two digits to 00 or 99, the reception answers. So I called the number with 99 at the end. And the woman answered and she said, Prime Minister's office, can I help you? I said, yes, hello. Thank you for answering. I got a phone call from the following extension. And the line got dropped. Can you please connect me to him? And she said, yes, this was Othman. I'll connect you to him. So she connected me to Othman. And Othman, when I called him, he said, hello, Othman, this is Omar. You just called me. You hung up. Why didn't you tell me that you're calling from the prime minister's office?

1:03:19And he said, how do you know my name? I told him. And he said, you have an interview next week. So I got the interview. And they gave me the job offer. When I worked in Abu Dhabi, my salary was around$10 ,000. When I got the offer in the prime minister's office It was nearly half So I came to my mother And I told her Mom, I got this offer in Dubai I'm not sure I'm going to take it What do you think? And I still remember what she said to me She said, Omar, there are certain places Where you'd only work if they pay you There are other places Where you are willing to pay To work for them And she said, working for Sheikh Mohammed And working for the government Even if they ask you to pay your own salary You should be willing to do that So I got the job after accepting And the first thing I realized Was working for Science Sheikh Mohammed And the Prime Minister's office Was one of the toughest and most rewarding jobs You can ever get anywhere in the world The first thing about this job Was we had to learn to do everything So it's not a job where you were only asked to do one specific thing.

1:04:34Anything and everything you had to learn and you had to do it. It was a small team. So being on the outside, hearing about Sheikh Mohammed, hearing about the government and what is happening, I assume there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people going into the office, seeing this very lean team that's very efficient where people have skills in many different domains where they're unified with one goal. And the one goal is, you know, what we're doing here is impacting the lives of millions of people. And we need to make sure that our country is the best, that our government is the best.

1:05:08Was energizing. And this was really the school in which I grew up in. All right. This was like the first experience of a true job. With that, the first thing I will say, and this, by the way, is something that I'm proud of. most of the employees in the office would go into the office at 8 a.m. and would leave the office at 10 p.m. Every single day. We would work on weekends. We were pouring our hearts out into the jobs. With that, we also got a very interesting thing from His Highness directly. So His Highness didn't believe that you need to be a certain age to do something. He didn't believe that, you know, there are these chosen people or the righteous people.

1:06:02He gave everyone a chance. And I remember he gave me, at 25 years old, a responsibility. There was a platform that the UAE started called the World Government Summit. It was a very, very big deal. Prime Ministers, CEOs Heads of State Heads of NGOs From around the world come to this And it's a very, very important convening And I got a phone call from Minister Gragawi And he said, Sheikh Mohammed is going to appoint you As the person who is going to run the summit And he told him, Your Excellency It's a very big deal Like there's a lot of things that can go wrong And I'm just 25 Are you sure I'm the right person?

1:06:52And he said, His Highness doesn't believe that it's about your age. He believes that it's about your ability, your grit, your perseverance. And he said, we're all behind you. We're not going to let you fail. Put in your heart. Make the best out of this. And let's see what you can do. So I worked on the summit. I think I was lucky enough to have been able to be part of that team and to enact some change there. And the summit today is one of the most incredible platforms in the world where you have over 30 heads of state, where you have thousands of CEOs from Elon Musk to Larry Ellison to CEOs from India and others, where you have the world coming together to talk about a positive future in government.

1:07:42People always look at government and they think of government as bureaucracy, as red tape, as slow, as old-fashioned. This is the only place where you come and people are talking about government in a very positive light. And they're talking about pragmatic ways to improve government. So I was given that task. I delivered on it. Then I was given another task to run the largest drone race in the world. I knew nothing about drones. So I worked on a project called the World Drone Prix. it actually set the benchmark globally for drone races. It was the largest at the time. So we had to create new things that weren't there.

1:08:27So the first thing that we did, I remember seeing drone races. And drone races, you can't really tell what the speed of the drone is unless you put the odometer there with the speed. And I told them that we need to make people feel like they're very, very fast. On the road, you are able to tell what the speed is by seeing the lines on the road. So I told the team, let's actually create something where the racetrack looks like a skeleton. So there are like these bones. There's a straight white track and there are these things. We call them the wings that come out of it. And it looks like a big skeleton.

1:09:02And as the drone flies through it, the sense of speed increases. So you feel like they're going, you know, three, four times faster than they're actually going. After that, I was given another task. I was asked to work on strategies for the government. I was asked to work on so many different projects here and there. And then I was supposed to go to military service. Before going to military service, there was a person who submitted a strategy for the UAE on AI. Now, you have to understand, first, why did we work on strategy for AI? The reason why we worked on it is His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed The President At the time he was the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi Gave a speech at the World Government Summit And he spoke about The UAE celebrating The exporting of the last barrel of oil And he said If the decisions we take today Are the right decisions We're going to celebrate exporting The last barrel of oil And he said we need to invest in the sectors that are going to transform the world.

1:10:08And he talked about a vision. So typically, the way that our government runs is we don't hear something interesting and say, oh, this is interesting and move on. We hear something interesting and we say, what do we do about it? So Sayyid Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid, the prime minister, heard that speech and he said, let's actually work on a strategy to benefit from these sectors. So we worked on it. We called it the centennial strategy. And within that strategy, there was a big focus on AI. So some people that we consulted thought that they can actually work on a strategy. I was asked to comment on the strategy.

1:10:48I was a person who liked to read about these things. I was passionate about AI and technology. So I saw the strategy that they had. And the strategy, I think, was short-sighted. It was a Western view with Western problems and Western ideologies applied to the UAE. I'll give you a simple example. So the view was, you know, we should deploy AI across all sectors in the next three years. At that time, AI wasn't LLMs. It wasn't agents. AI was computer vision. AI was a recommendation engines and self-driving cars you know we need to put an ambitious target in three years self-driving cars need to be everywhere and I was asked to review that strategy so I reviewed it and I had so many comments some of the comments were self-driving cars still haven't reached where they want to reach it's going to come but we shouldn't say that we're going to do it in three years when the technology is not something we can control The second thing is We need to understand the impact of AI on the jobs in the UAE And third is We need to start the first level of deploying the strategy By focusing on Building the skill sets and the talents locally And attracting talent from abroad And getting the ecosystem ready for what's to come So I submitted this I got married I went on my honeymoon on the third day of my honeymoon I got a phone call Can I ask how did you decide who you married?

1:12:30So as you would assume from Indian marriages there's a lot of pressure from my mother and I think you know definitely she saw things when it came to marriage she understood it was the right time even before I did I always wanted to get married even at a young age the only issue with marriage is and I don't want to get too philosophical here, but I think that marriage feels like a big burden. But once you take that leap of faith, you realize it's a beautiful synergy of two people that can take on any problem, that can go through any task and figure it out together. So my mother actually kept telling me, you know, you should think about it.

1:13:20And I decided it was the right time. And that actually worked out So on the third day of my honeymoon I got a phone call And the phone call was Hello Omar Book the next flight back And my response was If you don't tell me why I'll come back single I'm currently married So if you don't give me the reason why I'm going to come back single And the response was You're going to find out in a few hours Book the next flight back So I changed my flight I didn't tell my wife And I was anxious at around 7pm I think it was 7 or 8pm Tokyo time because we were in Tokyo in Japan the announcement came out that I became minister of AI and 27 at the time now so it was a blessing it still is an honor and I hope to be able to earn that trust that I was given at the time amazing when it comes to governance,

1:14:25if I were to say start with corruption,

1:14:30God in a way can be godlike because he gets the validation of being God, the validation and devotion of being God. So if you're a minister, or the president, or the prime minister, or the ruler of one region or another, I think there's a lot of devotion and validation that comes with the chair that you sit on, that could feed into some kind of altruism maybe. But if you're not in that position and you're going down the chain, the deputy of that person, the deputy of the deputy, the people who are at the bottom working on the ground, for a country that has developed as quickly as it has, because I've been coming to this region now for maybe a decade or two, how do you deal with it?

1:15:21I feel like all people at the very core are self-serving. If somebody is not getting the validation and devotion that comes from being in public life, they are working towards meeting a capitalistic end. And somebody who's meeting a capitalistic end, how do you get someone like that to not be corrupt and for projects to finish efficiently? And on time. So, I'm going to answer this in three ways. The first is,

1:16:01there's an Arabic saying, which is people are as their kings are. And what it actually means, if the king is a tyrant, then people will be people who actually apply tyranny in their society. If the king is corrupt people are going to be corrupt. If the king is generous people are going to be generous. This is something that in our culture we believe in. And the first thing is if there is corruption at the top there will be corruption at the bottom. At the end of the day it's as simple as that. Because whatever rules you apply on yourself people will apply on themselves as well. So I think this is maybe the basic principle that is important to understand.

1:16:48You can't claim to be combating corruption if you're siphoning money for your family or for your people or for whoever you think deserves that money. The second thing I'm going to say is why are people corrupt? So what is the fundamentals of corruption? The fundamentals of corruption are three things. The first is that people actually are going to get away from it. Or get away with it. They think that I'm going to do it. No one's gonna catch me The second is they feel like they are cheated. So I'm not getting as much as I deserve So I'm gonna take matters in my own hand and the third is The Purpose in which they are there is a selfish one rather than a noble one To combat this there is a very hard line that is drawn when it comes to certain things like corruption.

1:17:46So it is not tolerated at all. And when people are chosen to work in government here and when people are chosen for leadership positions here, this is one of the values that are seen. Like, you know, you need to be someone who's doing it for the right reasons. You're driven to do the right things. The second thing is people are well paid here. So I think the UAE government In terms of ministerial positions Is amongst the highest In terms of monthly pay in the world So I think Singapore is higher A few other countries are maybe higher But we get paid quite well And why we get paid well Is because If you ask science, they tell you this If you're expecting me To hire someone who can also get a job As being the CEO of a company Or being an entrepreneur or being the best of the best in his field, I need to pay him what he would get being in that position.

1:18:43If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, right? If you pay very small amounts and expect to get the best people, there is a challenge there. And, you know, in certain countries, we see that they find other ways of making money. It's not right, but at the end of the day, that's the model that appears in those countries. And the final thing is, when people believe that they are treated fairly, that the system is built to ensure that everyone prospers together where recognition is given when you deserve recognition where you don't sit on that seat because you are the son of someone or because you went through a certain journey in life and you need to be there you earn that seat and you work 10 times harder than everyone else to stay on that seat you see that there is no need for them to apply the corrupt mindset that exists in other places.

1:19:40This is at the top. Now, at the bottom, there's always some form of corruption applied in different domains at the bottom. The first thing you need to do is you need to have constant checks and balances to ensure that there is no corruption. And with that, I may have mentioned in the past That is, Haynes Sheikh Mohammed has what he calls secret shoppers So these are people that go across town They look like me, they might look like you Who raise reports to him Who tell him, for example, that they've witnessed corruption here Or inefficiency there, or they identify talent there And with that, certain actions are taken to eradicate this corruption Or to, you know, elevate this talent Or to do certain things related to what was witnessed the second thing is there needs to be government systems that constantly look at where these inefficiencies exist and to remove that red tape so we have a government initiative called zero bureaucracy for zero bureaucracy every year we try to reduce 50 % of the bureaucracy in our government it's a lot 50 % year on year so you reduce inefficiencies you reduce inefficiencies, you reduce red tape you reduce corruption you reduce all the things related to it and you become more efficient with time the secret chopper thing seems like a great idea by the way it's easier said than done yeah what are the issues with it

1:21:17the secret choppers themselves might be corrupt so okay how do you identify a secret chopper if they know the power that they wield if they understand that they can raise something to you and a decision will be taken, then they could be corrupt or they can support a certain party over another. Like there are so many things that they can do. Now, the choice of the secret choppers is I think the art that the science of Sheikh Mohammed Ibn Rashid implemented. Identifying people and identifying checks and balances on them as well to understand how these people are always going to raise the right things.

1:21:58There are always constantly people that are either removed from that overall group of people. But, you know, the need to always constantly inject new blood, remove old blood that, for example, might go in the wrong direction, but also ensure that there is validation on the repost that they're raising. Like, okay, someone might say, this is good. If you don't check and you just take an action on it, you might take the wrong decision, right? so if I may ask you your excellency for a country with 11 million people 10 million expats and one Emirati a lot of the expats are Indians and Bangladeshis and Pakistanis and so on and so forth I know so many people who live here who are Indian when you look from the lens of policy making whose country is it are you making policies based on 11 million people or 1 million people?

1:23:05So, why does it have to be a choice of is it the 1 million or is it the 11 million or is it the Indians or the Bangladeshis or whatever demographic lives here? what people really care about and this you see by the way in the US when they talk about the American dream what is the American dream? the American dream is that I can work hard and I can achieve prosperity it's that I will be given equal opportunity it's that I'm going to be safe I'm going to be able to live like everyone else and I think this is the essence of it Now, the country is the country of the one million At the end of the day Those are the people that Are going to serve in the army Those are the people that Are going to stay here regardless Through thick and thin, right?

1:24:08But The moment you differentiate Is the moment you lose And this is what makes this place special Is that people don't feel a differentiation Like wear a candora Or wear shorts and a t-shirt and act like an Indian in the streets, I'm going to get the same treatment. I can act like a European, you know, bleach my hair or change the color, and I'll be treated equally. And I think this is what all governments should strive to do. It needs to be a government where it takes care of its people, those who are representative of who put that government, but also serves everyone equally. As the AI minister, if you were to paint the world of tomorrow, five years from now how do you see it from the lens of technology?

1:25:02Tomorrow or five years from now the answer to me is I think technology is going to be pervasive it's going to be completely invisible it's going to be everywhere but it's not going to be in our faces we will see certain elements of it so we are going to see robots we are going to see autonomous vehicles, we are going to see certain places where technology is going to be a bit more prevalent. But the same way that electricity today runs through many things and nearly everything in our lives, whether it's in our devices, whether it's in our lighting, whether it's in the way we cook our food or we manage our affairs, I think AI is going to be everywhere.

1:25:45And with that, with that level of intelligence, we will be able to you know outsource many decisions I don't know if that's a positive thing but many decisions are going to be outsourced to the machines and the quality of life improvement will be in order of magnitude improvement compared to the lives we live today so you will spend time brain power effort on the things you really choose to spend time and effort on and many other things as long as they can be done in the right way the way that you like it and you can outsource it to the machine, you're going to do it. That's what I think is going to happen.

1:26:21If AI gets better at decision-making than people, would you outsource policy decision-making to AI? There are examples of countries that are looking at this. The question is always whether AI can make good or good new decisions versus build on historical data and take decisions accordingly. I'll give you a simple example. So there was a question. If you feed AI all of the information of physics up until 1910, can it come up with the theory of relativity? Can it? I've read this, so I know the answer is no. So, there are those who say no. And some people actually try to simulate this. There are those who say yes.

1:27:23If the answer is no, and all the answers point to it not being able to do that, then it can't take policy decisions. Because on many things relating to policy, there are new things you're dealing with. So, there has to be decisions that are built on unknowns. Right? but I think there is going to be this beautiful harmony of man and machine where you'll be able to simulate things crunch data and then the humans take the policy decisions related to the new things that emerge the one thing this region has done extremely well which to me looks like it has led to its prosperity as well is in a region which is surrounded by conflict it has always stayed out of conflict and I've been having meetings here in Dubai this week you see Chinese, you see Russian, you see strangely so much conversation about UAE's connection with Africa and all the businesses that people are doing there so you're friends with the US, you're friends with Russia, you're friends with China you're also friends with India and Africa and so on and so forth how do you manage to not take a side in a world which is so polarized and binary with every passing day it's very difficult and I'm going to maybe say a few things first relating to our history so if you know the history of this country and you know the history of this region so our country has always been a point where the world comes to do business, to meet, to build together.

1:29:134 ,000 years ago, there's a location that's around 20 kilometers in this direction called Sarug al-Hadeed. It's an archaeological site that was unearthed. And what was interesting about it is they unearthed both artifacts and let's say gold and copper and other artifacts from the Egyptian civilization and the Indian civilization. So most archaeologists and historians say that this is where the Egyptians and the Indians used to trade 4 ,000 years ago. If you fast forward 200 years ago, this was still a place where East and West used to trade. Today, it's still a place where North, South, East and West do business.

1:30:05So we are a country that thrives on openness. We are a people that welcome it, that live it, that breathe it. If you look at all of the merchants and the big traders that came out of the UAE from the 19th century to the 20th century to the 21st century, they never focused on the UAE. They were always global traders that traded with the world from the UAE, that did business with India, that did business with China, that did business with Africa and with the broader Middle East. So this is how we are and we will always promote it. We will always promote that we are a beacon of collaboration, a beacon of cooperation, a beacon of trade and prosperity hopefully for the world.

1:30:54Now, there are so many differences in the world, I think there is a need for us to have dialogue. There is a need for us in the world to have a patron of at least some sort of middle ground. I'll give you an example. At the height of the Cold War, there were discussions between the Americans and the Russians about nuclear bombs, about safeguards, about what is happening in this domain and how it's going to affect people. That was at the height of the Cold War Right? Today we can't afford To let the technologies that we're working on Whether it's biotech Whether it's AI Whether it's technology that can cross borders Today because of the digital infrastructure That connects us Or the open borders that we have Around the world To go wrong anywhere on earth So we need to have a pattern of dialogue A pattern of cooperation It doesn't mean that I will choose the benefit of China over the UK or the benefit of Russia over Ukraine.

1:32:01The Russians and the Ukrainians both know that I'm going to be a fair conduit for both. That I'm going to work with both equally. That I'm not going to do something to harm one over the other. And I think the world needs more examples of that. It needs more examples of countries like the UAE that they try to build bridges where we are seeing a world where bridges and roads are being dismantled and dialogues are completely ending. Very well said. From the lens of technology and blockchain, this region has become some kind of hub for everything crypto, Bitcoin. up until recently it looked like the government was really pushing for it I might not be the best person to be reading into it but is the government changing their stance on it?

1:32:56We haven't so we've been working on blockchain technology since 2015 and we've gone through it through people thinking it was a bubble, people thinking it was over and we've looked at the fundamentals and we've always been a supportive government of technological innovation but not overly blinded by the technology. You always have to try to strike a balance and I think the stance is always going to be that. The stance is always going to be supportive of technology but not blinded by it. So Omar, I play paddle. I know everybody plays paddle in Dubai. I play paddle back home in India and my teammate is an 18-year-old boy called Deanne who's significantly better than I.

1:33:48He would, blindfolded with a fracture on one hand, he would beat me. I'm saying he's that good. Or your game is that bad. It's one of the two. Yeah, I think a little bit of both maybe. So, the thing I really appreciate with Deanne and I play with other kids his age restraint is very attractive in somebody that young so one day I played paddle with Deanna I went back home and I'm like this such an impressive kid he has restraint even though he's 18 you as a politician at 35 seem to exercise restraint in the right measure at some point as you age restraint will no longer be cool and action or impulse will become cool and I think this which happens in every man's life depending on what age he is as a politician outside of what you believe philosophically and as a representation of your country who are you as a person and where are you at what are what's on the other side if there is one

1:35:09I really don't know how to answer this question because every person sees themselves in a certain way right I might see certain good things others might be be seeing certain bad things what I genuinely believe is you can't act so you know the truth is always going to come out. And your job is to be who you are and to do what not just people expect of you, but what best you can do. Sometimes people expect a lot of things. If you can't do it, you have to be honest and say, I can't do it. When it comes to impulse versus restraint, I don't think it's about either impulse or restraint. I think it's about wisdom.

1:35:51It's about assessing the situation and knowing where you need to exercise impulse, where you need to move fast and actually take action and move, where you need to exercise restraint, where you need to talk, where you need to be quiet. And, you know, with age, I would say the reality is the other way around. You tend to be impulsive with age because you feel like the world is your oyster, as they say. There's a lot that you have to prove and that you want to prove that you're the smartest or you're the best or you know the most or whatever it is. And having the wisdom to understand and maybe going back to the Dunning-Kruger effect, to understand that sometimes it's actually better just to take it all in.

1:36:44Your job is not to speak. Your job is to absorb. sometimes your job is to stand up for what's right and here impulse actually makes sense sometimes your job is to respond sometimes your job is to absorb right whether it's in conflict whether it's in good times or bad times you know there's a saying that says don't make promises when you're happy don't make decisions when you're sad and i think wisdom is many of those kind of sayings, all right? And what we need in the world is we need more wisdom. I don't think it's about restraint. A restraint is like a spring. You keep pressuring yourself to hold back.

1:37:29One day, as you said, men fluctuate between the two. If it truly is restraint, the spring is going to push back against the hand that's pushing it down, right? And if it's about impulse, one day people are not wanting to deal with you. So I think it's a balance. Wisdom is the most important thing. We're in the last part of this. If I don't ask you a question and ask you, what is one thing you want to talk about, but usually do not, because you're worried how it will come across if you talk about it? This is a Peter Thiel question, right? He asks it in interviews. One thing that I want to talk about but I'm worried about how people perceive it.

1:38:21So personally as a person, and you probably will see this with time, I believe that you should be open and talk about anything and everything you want to talk about as long as you understand enough of the topic and as long as you can defend what you believe in, right? And if you can't, if the other person can convince you, great, you learned something new. One thing that I don't typically talk about That I should talk about Is people Look at the world And they don't talk about the things That actually matter at times They talk about the things that Are Fashionable Right, so We look at the situation of the world And we see devastation In certain places We see sometimes economic models that are leading to bad results.

1:39:20And the thing is, okay, let's not talk about affordable housing. Let's talk about another topic that might be relevant for this point of time, but isn't relevant for the 7 billion people or the 6 billion people that are suffering from that specific issue, right? And what saddens me is, I think this is getting rectified, for a long period of time, if you talked about one of these topics, you're going to be cancelled. So, if you talk about, for example, you know, we spoke today about political systems. I don't believe that I need to export my political system to you. And I genuinely believe that you shouldn't be coming to export your political system to me, right?

1:40:02As long as the system is benefiting the people, then it's great. At a point of time, this was a taboo subject. You can't talk about it. we are proud of what we have here. We are proud of our history. We are proud of our people. We are proud of the prosperity that we are creating. And I think it doesn't mean that because we are succeeding that other people are, you know, being harmed by it or they're being attacked by it. And we need to have dialogue in the world. I do something that I'll share with you. I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice. so we'll try to edit that the right way. I do something where I host gatherings.

1:40:47So I like to read. And I host a gathering that's like a book club. And I tell the people that come to these gatherings, let's have discussions and let's talk openly about different subjects. And I actually want to learn. And this curiosity is important. It's very important for the curiosity and the right type of content to be available for everyone. You see, for a long period of time, there was algorithmic muting for certain content. So you couldn't say certain things about Gaza, for example, right? And then because of the pressure, people started to talk about it. We need to be able to have dialogue.

1:41:32We need to be able to understand what is truly happening And I think we need to ensure that people have exposure to the right things. That's one thing that I don't talk about publicly. But I think today the discourse is a lot more welcoming of this kind of dialogue than it was in the past. I agree with you 100%. I think the world is lacking one thing, if it's one thing only, is discourse. Whenever somebody doesn't agree with your opinion, they get offended and they really should not. Actually, I have a better answer to that question Can I repeat it? No, please One thing I believe in That people are going to judge me If I say But I will say it Tennis is better than paddle tennis It's a better sport But paddle tennis is fun I think people are going to migrate from being Paddle tennis players To tennis players If they're able to build the fitness Now I know, I'm speaking with the tennis player.

1:42:37But thank you so much, Your Excellency, for doing this. This was a lot of fun. And hope to catch up with you again soon. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Thank you for having me. Thank you.