Nikhil Kamath ft. Police Comm'r & Traffic Police Comm'r of Bengaluru | WTF is Policing? | Special Ep

24:02Right. And like not wearing a seatbelt not wearing a helmet and the violation is automatically raised. We have human validators here who are validating the accuracy of that challenge that is raised. Like randomly? No. Each and every one we check. It helps with machine learning, right? How many shallans are generated per day? About 30 ,000 violations are generated. About 20 ,000 are shallan. Right. Photo evidence of this thing. So we take four kind of photos. And one is of the number plate as well. And what happens is because of this, we are able to annotate and give it back to the system as well to do the learning.

24:42Right. Like when we started off, if you're wearing a black shirt and the seatbelt was black in color, it would not detect. But today it detects. So, and even if we have an error rate of 3%, if you are generating 30 ,000 violations, that's about 900 to 1 ,000 a day. So, if you generate 1 ,000 wrong chalans, you have 3.65 lakh people in one year who have got wrong chalans. Every road is being monitored, you think? Not all roads. Not all roads. In the phase 2, yeah. We'll have almost all roads. We'll have 50 now, plus 2575, plus 250. 325 junctions which are monitored, which would cover the entire Bangalore.

25:17All the main junctions of Bangalore will cover. We have traffic signal lights in 500 junctions. So, 325 junctions would be covered with these cameras. Is it expensive like this putting up the camera and then monitoring it? Yeah. So, in the first phase, we put up actual hardware and the software to analyze it. But in the second phase, we have repurposed the safe city cameras. So, we just put the AI engine here. Right. It's right there in the next room. Basically, you can charge on more number of vehicles, number one. Second thing is the issue of policemen stopping the vehicles and issuing the chalan.

25:55The physical interface is gone, human interface. And you have a violation photo, right? You have proof of evidence. So, nearly 97 % of our chalanengi is contactless. Contactless. Only 3 % that is drunk driving, then signal jump and a few other specific drives they do. Only that one they do physical enforcement. Rest all is contactless. And the quality of photograph is also good. So that's why jokingly I say it doesn't even just capture the driver wearing seatbelt. Even the co-passenger sitting in the front also. So you should be careful with whom you are traveling. Otherwise if the photo goes home, someone else is sitting there.

26:32Photo goes home? Is it by post? By post. But you are registered address. And if you have a phone number, it comes to your phone number as well. Right. When I was younger, I don't drive now. I have not driven for many years. But when you would get caught in the night going somewhere, coming from somewhere, You would pay a bribe and all that, right? How do you stop that? So that's one way of doing that is this body-worn camera, right? Body-worn camera. So you have this body-worn camera which is live-streamed here. But they can't close it. They can't. They can't switch it off. So and if they are doing enforcement, then it's banditry that they switch on the body-worn camera.

27:08Especially these drunk driving and all that. But if somebody is charging a fine in cash and the money is not legal per se, He won't be collecting that while he's in with the camera on in enforcement. Yeah, but that used to happen when cash was the mode of transaction, right? Today, you will not believe it's 99.9 % is cashless. So both are helped, both the cashless payment as well as measures such as this. And it's no longer that we'll randomly do this thing. It is specific for this particular time of this particular junction. The location is taken here. And complaints do come about police high-handedness, harassment and all those things.

27:51But most of the times we are able to absolve our policemen because of body-on-camera. Now they have also realized that with body-on-camera they are in a better position. So they always switch it on. Any argument, any this thing with the public. I must have forwarded to him so many complaints what public have sent me. I think 99 % they all have been absolved with body-on-camera. Only 1 or 2 % may be taking action because there is actually something wrong. And another thing is that all the location is monitored. The body-worn camera is there. That is the location of the body-worn camera. And the car and the vehicle as well.

28:25All our vehicles are fitted with IoT devices. Which we monitor the GPS. So if we are saying that he has to put in a particular place, our control room verifies he is at that place. Right. So all these things, technology basically. Makes sense. Plus they are geofenced also. So, our policemen, they are geofreens to those junctions. If he leaves that junction, again, they get an alert here. And he has to explain for what purpose he left the junction. So, this is the kind of chalan which goes to a person's house. Right. And this QR code, if you scan it, you'll get the photo as well. If a vehicle is registered to me, you also send a SMS, right?

29:02If the mobile number is there. If your mobile number is there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The older vehicles, they are not captured the mobile number. New vehicles, they have captured. Right now we are at about 99.999 % accuracy because of the human validation. Prior to that it was about 95%. But 1 in 10 ,000 is acceptable. Because there will be human errors as well. The number of errors being generated has reduced. Because if there is no trust in the system then there is no acceptance. You can only get trust if your data has integrity in it. How the traffic police evolved in Bangalore City over the period?

29:37When was the first signal set up? When was the first ultrometer used? How they used to do it earlier? Hand signal time. Very well done, the lighting and all that. Old gazettes and all that they have digged out. Press the button, Kannada or English.

29:59Put in Bangalore City, near town all the way. It has to have go and no. If go was too good, go and no.

30:18Thank you.

30:37Let's go in the car. Hi. This is our chatbot. Right. Does anybody ask? Yes, we can. But who asks? There's a mic button here. Any public who can... Who comes to the museum, visit here. Interact with the last few questions related to congestion. No, no, don't worry. It's fine.

31:00No, no, you can say it on camera. No, no. Why do you like the police so much? Why do you work with them so much? It's just so nice. to work with them because no one sees them as they are, right? Was there a case long back that you're trying to solve? No. It's just nice. Sometimes you feel like Batman, maybe. Really? Yeah, yeah. Love it.

31:29Sir, first thing, first big compliment I can pay you is I was talking to a politician recently. And he was saying, I don't know what we were talking about, about keeping restaurants open till late or something like that. And he said, the new commissioner doesn't listen to any of us. He does whatever he wants. Yeah, absolutely. So, coming from a politician, in my view, is a great compliment to you as police commissioner. Would you like to talk about that? How does it feel to be stuck in between all these different worlds in your role? It feels nice coming from a politician definitely. But then again the politicians also, they expect police officers to enforce law.

32:19Once you are enforcing, what they expect from police officers is impartiality, neutrality and a little bit of hard work. Where they have a problem is once you start compromising and all that. If you mean business, they like it at the end of the day. And then once they know that you mean business, then they don't intervene much also. Yeah. That has been my experience. Is it easy? If they know that this fellow is not going to listen like the way the politician told you, then they are not going to trouble you. So it saves our problem also, our headache. So you can execute, you can do what you want to.

32:56And also intentions matter. If your intentions are good, I think… Intentions also. Yeah. Tell me something about your life, sir. From the beginning to now. When did you want to be a policeman? How did you start? Where did you study? No, strictly speaking, police, to become police was not my first option. I tried the civil services examination that is through the UPSC in the 90s. My father was in the government service. He was an administrative service officer of the state, KS what they call. So, I was exposed to the administrative and bureaucratic environment, but definitely not to the police job as such.

33:36But then once I wrote the UPSC exam, I got into the Indian Police Service in 1994. Were you a bright student? It's a tough exam to clear, right? It is, no doubt about that. It requires a lot of hard work. not academic knowledge or your intelligence doesn't matter, but it is more of hard work and perseverance. You have to crack the exam. Right. And once I joined the service, luckily I got into the homestead. Right. And since then it has been so far so good. How many years in service now? 30, 31, 31 now. And you must have played many roles in the police during that time. Which one has been your favourite?

34:29It starts from your ASP days. I was ASP of Puttura subdivision where Anuchet was also there as ASP. That was very good. After that, I have done ASP ship in about 5 districts. Right. Vijjapur, Belgam, Mangalore, Kolar, Chitipurka, some of these districts. Every position has its own charm and challenge, both of them. Some charm, some challenge, some tough assignments. Days have changed also nowadays. Certain things, especially the infusion of technology has made our job much, much easier were compared to the earlier days, either in detection of crime or even in land order and other things also. Some things have made it difficult also, like the 24 by 7 media, social media and even the RTI and these kind of things.

35:27This is what I was talking about. When they break the signal, will you find them, politicians? No, this won't be. This is a convoy going. Generally, they give the green signal there. They don't break this thing, but generally they get green and go. Generally, when a VIP convoy is moving, that is the chief minister or the governor, we ensure that the corridor is kept free for their movement. There's a philosopher who used to say, just because of position in society, either by virtue of capitalism or rank in the government, You can't wash away the responsibility you have as a trustee of another's time.

36:10True. Do you think it's right for VIPs to break lines or break traffic rules in a manner, inconvenience the public so that they can get from point A to B faster? I would rephrase the question as whether they should enjoy this privilege. preferential movement. For a person holding the position of the Chief Minister or even the Governor or the Prime Minister, it becomes all the more necessary. Agreed. And not a matter of, you know, a kind of a show-off kind of a thing. Right. But it becomes a matter of necessity. He has to move. Plus, security concerns also matter. Right. So, these individuals have high security threat perception also.

36:57Right. So, from that perspective also, it has to be… Right. ensure that they get free movement. Otherwise, end route something can happen. Yeah. And I think the incumbent government and the Prime Minister has done a good job of reducing how many of these people have that privilege. But do you still feel like there are too many people with that privilege? No, it's on the constitutional post. So basically, the security arrangements or schemes are done as per the position occupied by that individual. So, depending on that, even in Bangalore, it's not that everybody gets that preferential treatment.

37:35It's just that there are that many number of positions in our government which require that kind of a security scheme which requires priority signalling or preferential signalling. But you would prefer that lesser people have it? Yeah. The lesser the better. Because it's less inconvenient. And now because of these adaptive signals and all that what Achet was explaining, now the human intervention is less there. Earlier all these signals used to be having manual control. That is the traffic man there whenever he sees any red light vehicle going, he can turn the signal to green and all that. But now that has been reduced.

38:20So most of the times they are running on VAC, that is vehicle actuated control. only when an ambulance is going or some this type of a convoy is moving. At that time we turn it to the manual part. What is the percentage? It's 5 % sir. So 5 % of the time it's on manual. Manual. Otherwise 95 % of the time it's on manual. Yeah in 24 hours. It's vehicle actuated. So if I'll ask this to both of you. If I am 20 years old and considering what my profession should be when I grow up, Can you talk about the life of a policeman, not just from the theory lens, but maybe the family lens, your position in society, the financial lens?

39:07What are the reasons why I should be a policeman first? Why is it a good choice for me? Being a policeman, number one, pride in wearing the uniform. That is generally, many people prefer that one. And second thing, in terms of financial, it is reasonably good compared to the government, other government jobs also. As Anushet has explained at the constable level, at the sub-instructor level, and then we have the DSP level, then the IPS also is there. At constable level, now it is becoming very, very, you know, competitive mainly because none of the government departments are hiring. Only the police and education and health, these are the sectors which are hiring.

39:54Most of the other departments are going for outsource there. I am assuming most of the people watching this will be thinking, can I clear EPSC and join? Is that… are the odds of clearing EPSC so low? I know Anuchit cleared in the second return. It's very tough. Now it has become very complicated and extremely, extremely competitive. 10 lakh people write it every year. Now about 10 lakh people apply, about 5 to 6 lakh people write, out of which about 10, 14 ,000 get qualified for the main examination. From that, it filters down to 3 ,000 for the interview and hardly about 850, 2 ,000 get selected.

40:32So, IPS would be about 150 out of that. 150 out of that. But is it worth the effort then? Like if I have a 20 to dedicate 2, 3 years to study and then take the exam and all of that. See, it depends on what you are looking at from the job perspective. Nowadays, people have a lot of options, especially in the private sector and other things. Right. But then the police job or the IPS job or the UPSC job, number one, it gives job security and other things are definitely there. What is the psychological element that made you want to take the UPSC? Even if you wanted to be IAS first, but then picked IPS, why did you spend so much time…

41:09I picked IPS mainly because I got the home state. So being in home state has its own advantage. Second thing is the status, the prestige attached to the post. Is it power? It is definitely power is there. Social status is there. More importantly, if you think from the police perspective, police department is the only department where you can provide instant justice to the people. In all other departments, you will either be pushing files or even you move some proposal by the time it gets materialized, it takes a lot of time, long time. The gestation period is very long. But here, you can provide instant justice to the people who come to you for some health fantastic events or something like that.

41:54Something wrong has happened. If he comes to you and then you play and solve their problems. Not even from the lens of what you can do after becoming a policeman, but just wanting to be a policeman. Power, I can see evidently. Financially, I am assuming the amount of effort required to clear UPSC If you put in an equivalent effort in other things You would probably end up making more money in those careers, I can argue So what else is there? Job security Otherwise, in other jobs, especially in the private sector You have the risk by iron fire policy That job security, sir, was a big thing 20 years ago When there was a lack of jobs in today's world where all these young people are doing 3-4 jobs at one time they like the transient nature of being able to move I don't know how much appeal it has anywhere no in the urban I think it is like that but in the hinterland it is even now it is the job security which the government jobs provide right and also like if you are actually looking for a job which is challenging right and which is not constant on a day-to-day basis right every day is a new day no day is same yesterday it ends at yesterday Today is a new day and it's completely challenging and it changes.

43:12And the things that you do on a day-to-day basis is varied. If you're looking for something like that, then this is a very good job to be in. Variety. Variety of this thing. So, it's not mundane. It's not a desk job that you go to. Maybe in the corporate sector, I don't know. But you may burn out faster than one. Right. And also the kind of opportunities you get to work in various fields. It's extremely diverse. It gives you a good platform. The very fact that we are doing this with you is another aspect of this job. Hadn't we been IPS officers, we wouldn't be here. Anuchit, would you like to say something about your background?

43:49Like, I know you, but for the audience, you went from engineering to corporate role to then becoming police. Yeah, so I have a basic engineering degree and I got into a VLSI job. I was working in Delhi for some time. What is a VLSI job? I was working for a company which basically does chip designing, VLSI design and testing. And I always wanted to become a civil servant. My father was in the services. Similar to sir, I was also motivated through that task. My father was an IPS officer in this same state. So it was always in the back of my mind. So in fact, I went to Delhi to prepare for the services and it also happened that I got a job.

44:38So both went hand in hand, but I had to quit the job because I couldn't concentrate on the exam because the exam is quite a grueling examination. So I had to leave that and I joined in my second attempt, I joined the services. I've seen both sides, although the private sector side, not for many, I mean, maybe about a year, year and half. But I think I would have preferred this for the personality that I have. Which is? Which is like challenges. Plus he has seen the police department being the police family also. From that perspective also he has seen. Is it a bit like judiciary? Like the son of a judge will always want to be a judge?

45:20Not really. My elder brother never wanted to be. Nowadays none of the bureaucratic children want to become bureaucrats. You think? Very few. Very few, very few. Yeah? I would assume more people… My younger son is aspiring to become now, but that's a different thing. But generally, it is less… Your oldest son is a lawyer, right? Yeah, he just finished. Right. So, when you have family gatherings and you compare what profession you picked versus other people in your family, how do you compare? Like, what are the metrics that you use to compare? No, as far as I am concerned, I have I have no regrets.

46:00So far I have no regrets. It has been really good whatever postings I have done or whatever job I have done. It has been really good. Although family does suffer. My wife especially feels that being a policeman's wife is tough and difficult because my engagement was postponed by one day. I could not attend my engagement. I have not attended both my son's naming ceremony. So these kind of sacrifices he has to make and family also has to make certain sacrifices. That is part of the game. But so far it has been good. So I don't have any regrets. Although I hardly attend any family functions or relatives and other things.

46:47But it's good. And does everybody, another problem with the job must be whoever knows you, extended family, do people always call you for a favor? No. But again, what kind of barriers or what kind of a line you draw. Right. Once you draw the line that you are not going to favor anybody within the family or outside. Right. Then those things will reduce. Right. Trust. We are transitioning into the coffee shop.

47:32Thank you.

47:49it is said in police department, police officers know how their sons grow like this. Horizontal. Because when they go to work, the children will be sleeping. When they come home in the night, also children will be sleeping. So, their growth, they visualize like this. Jokingly, to say. So, I have quite a few... And also, when a policeman returns, it is the wife also retires with him or the spouse, as the case may be. Meaning? Means like, for her also, it's like, or him also, it's like the same Generally, it becomes kind of, she takes the load. In my case, my kids have grown more with the mother than kind of a single parent kind of situation happens.

48:32So I'll tell you in my house, right, my father was a bank manager in Kendra Bank. He was in Kendra Bank from his first job to the last job for 40 years. I've seen this life where while he was in the bank everybody gives him attention because he's the manager and maybe he can sanction a loan or he can do a bunch of things but the day he retired at 16 suddenly that importance goes away and in my case I saw his health also started depleting because suddenly he doesn't have that place to go to every morning and do a certain thing where people are treating him a certain way. How do you cope with that as a policeman?

49:16I'm assuming and extrapolating that it must be similar. It is similar. No doubt about it. Post-tarmament, yes, everything goes. And here the... Because you are... When you are in a police job, you are always looked up to and you have the status. And the power is attractive. Suddenly, when everything is gone, you have that vacuum. It definitely affects. and because you've had parents in the government, you've probably witnessed that as well. But you still chose to be a policeman? So what happens is, like I saw with my own father, right? So he shifted to education. He became CEO of education this thing where they were running institutions.

49:57So he went into that. But otherwise it does happen. If that gap happens, because you're full of work till you're 60. Most retirement opportunities also have increase nowadays. None of the retired officers are actually retired. So they have retired just for one. That's why they said that when you retire, earlier it used to be like retired from life itself. But now it is just retiring from one job. There are so many other opportunities. But this intoxicating power, which has to be intoxicating, like you go anywhere, you are treated differently, especially in uniform, that going away can't be an easy transition.

50:32Best is not get used to it. Not yet. It's very hard, no? Easier said than done. Yeah. of course but you shouldn't get in the trappings of which are like if you want to be treated selectively if you want everybody to salute you if you are looking for that I think that goes away with even when you get transferred out of a particular role that you are in right I am in traffic now so all the traffic constables and all the officers and all they know when my vehicle is going if I go to a different role next certainly they will not know so if you are expecting everybody to you know salute you at that that usual power and aura what you call that fades away once you are out of the place from the role itself forget retirement from one role to the other itself it changes so if you don't get into that you know then it's fine and you prepare yourself for all these things yeah so I have many friends in police since I have grown up in Bangalore and I have gone to school and this has been home for me throughout I have known them from you know like 10 years ago 15 years ago whatever and Whenever they go to the government at the central level, like some go to ED, some go to CBI, some go to like SFI, I don't know, different, different places.

51:46A lot of them tell me that our representation, Kannadiga's representation in government is so low. Like what are your thoughts on that? For various reasons, not just because nobody speaks for us or internet. Officers from Karnataka Kada do not like to go to the center. Forget about us inside us. Even the outsiders who have come here, like from other states, generally it is out of every four posts, three positions will be held by the outsiders and one position is given to the inside, that is the home state persons. Mainly because the cadre is such that it is a very good cadre, cadre management is very good.

52:25The differentiation between the outside officers and inside officers is not much. The political witch hunting which happens in other states is not here. and banglore city offers a good comfortable place to stay for education for health and so many other aspects it's a comfortable place so people do not prefer to go out and also historically the number of people taking up examination was very less because yeah because you had altered means of education and employment through engineering medical law so you see a lot of employment opportunities was there apart from government service. So historically that was the case.

53:04But in the last 10-15 years the number of people taking this administration from Karnataka is also high. So the number of people getting qualified. Karnataka representation in the UPSC. Now it has improved. Now it has tremendously improved. If I can say in Karnataka, our problem is that at least according to a few of these people, our central is very small, and our other states are living in the UPSC. Sir, I can tell you, It's less than one person. There's no one who comes here. Because there's a lot of people here. There's a lot of people here. And there's no problem with the people outside. And there's no IPS.

53:44But it's a good thing. The path to politics through police. Like, I think Anushet will make a great politician. Is there a path? Is that something you would consider? I think many people who tried this path failed. Few succeeded. None of the IPS officers or All India Service officers who have joined politics after retirement have been successful. Very few. Why is it? Because your perception of the society is different compared to a politician. He struggles hard. He builds his thing. He comes from the grassroots. He comes from the grassroots. He goes and shouts slogans on the roads, goes with the people, he has to live with the people, understand their problems, go to the police station, go to the officer's office, solve their problems and then shout at officers and all those things.

54:36They have to live with the people. People use their oxygen. Unlike us, we are more used to the positional authority, positional comforts and all those things. Now, post-retirement, you can't mix with the people the way the politician mixes with them and understands them. So, always there is a gap. Because of that, very few have been successful. And transitions. Unlike those who have left the department early. Like there have been some sub-inspectors who have left the department early. And then they have joined the politics. They have become successful. Second time, third time, they have become MLA.

55:11Some have become ministers also in the past. But not those who have completed their term in the police department. And then left the department. And also I think you need to work hard at it. And you have the energy and the drive when you are say 30, 40. Compared to the earlier era of politics, now you cannot parachute and become a success in politics and become a MLA or a minister. Politician is a mass leader, right? For that constituency. You have to nurture the constituency. You have to work with the people, be with them. You have to work hard at it. What skill set makes a good policeman? Inherent talent?

55:45Common sense. Common sense. That is for every role, sir. Even in my job. It's very uncommon. More so in the police department. Very uncommon. There's a good saying, right? Common sense is a common thing, commonly lacking in people. But outside of common sense, how good is, how important is being a good auditor? Like somebody like you has to probably command a big team of policemen. Communication skills are important. So you have to make speeches often. Not lengthy speeches, but then yes, your communication skills have to be good, especially with the public and with your juniors, with your subordinates.

56:20Because police is one job where you work with the people. unlike other departments again like finance or even other departments also. You have to work with the people. Without people you cannot function at all. So your communication skills have to be And your ability to convince. He might be agitated. He might be angry with you. Convince or confused like jokingly say. Who are you talking about? The criminal or the somebody who is complaining? Even a person who say he is agitating for some of this he is protesting for some of this thing. You have to be in a position to convince them and say that okay these are things which we…

56:53See, for him, his problem is important. He may not be understanding the legal aspect of it. But legally, it may not make a case for us to, you know, say it could be a civil dispute, a dispute between brother and two brothers. So, he comes to us for redressal of his privates. Now, to convince him that this is not a police issue, you have to go to a civil court and other things. You need some communication skills and convincing ability to talk to him. One friend of mine in police again was saying, the budget for a police station to run that is provided to the station is so low that the police almost does not have a choice but to take bribes in order to make the police station run.

57:39That's again a myth for a wrong person. Maybe the case may be 15-20 years back. Not anymore? No, it's not. I think everything is well budgeted for and you have sufficient budget to take care it's just that how you plan it right if you plan for something and you budget for it you do get the required funds right like for example what you just saw like we have been able to do that only through government funding not through anybody else yeah yeah absolutely it's just that you need to make a case out for it and anyway the day to day running of the the thing is done implemented executed properly right so that it's for good use you should try this poditos it's like that Idli Padi thing.

58:23Yeah, sure. With bread. Made of bread. With bread. For chutney and the bread. Yeah, it's like chutney and bread. Anujit, I'm going to ask you a very tough question to answer. Yeah. I'm from Bangalore. As Bangalorean as anybody can be. Right. Wherever I go and tell good things about Bangalore, people tell me traffic, traffic, traffic. Right. What is the problem? What is the solution? Is there a solution? Yeah, of course. I also think that the problem is overstated because I don't know bad PR. Maybe we have not done a good job of saying the story. Maybe this is your chance to redeem that. Yeah, so I think the amount of criticism we get is totally disproportionate to the problem at hand.

59:09I think every major metropolitan city across the world faces the issue of traffic. because let's face it cities are magnets or attractive places for employment. It attracts a lot of people and year on year a city grows. The thing with Bangalore has been that post-2000 after the IT boom there has been a significant explosive growth and the infrastructure has not commensurately grown with the growth of vehicles or the human population. Now Bangalore has the highest number of vehicles per thousand. It's 872 per thousand population. Is it more than Bombay and Delhi? More. Yeah? Simply incomparable.

59:49How much is that? Hyderabad is comparable. It's at about 750. But Bangalore is very high. So we have 1.5 crore population with 1.23 crore vehicle population. So with the kind of explosive growth, the compounded annual growth rate of vehicles is 8%. We doubled between 2013 and 2013. It was 56 lakhs. It became 1.12 crores. So if you see that kind of growth rate, infrastructure will never be enough. So with that in mind, the government had planned for various public transportation systems to come up. Historically, Baguolo has this problem of lack of public transport facilities. The only public transport facilities before the metro came in was the BMTC buses.

1:00:30Unlike other cities, like Kolkata, you had the trams, in Delhi, you had the metro, in Mumbai, you had the Mumbai local, which is not the case here. Can I tell you a story in between? Yeah. near my house on Banargatta road metro construction started I don't know 10 years ago it's still going on so at some level like you're saying public infra has not kept up and maybe it can't is it somebody's fault that it hasn't kept up no I don't think so I think end of the day the intention is what matters right see had there no thinking of will improve public transport at all, I think it would have been a worse off situation.

1:01:12Just to give an example, when the Biapnalli line got connected to the Wildfield line, automatically peak car traffic reduced by 17%. Automatically. That just shows how, just interlinking to this thing or how important public transport is. So now a lot of impetus is given. So the long-term solution to Bangalore's problems are public transport, whether it's K-ride, suburban trains, or it is a metro, if it increases your fleet, whatever it is I think that's the way to go forward and that's where it is. It is just that the implementation has taken some time but when it comes in you will definitely see a change like for example when the altering road line opens for metro not only will the metro be available even the carriage space where the metro work is going on which has reduced because of the metro work would not be there.

1:01:57I mean you would get the full entire 10 lane available to you. I think it would improve. I think that's the way to go and in the short term measures like implementation of AI based signals, technology implementation of or leveraging technology, some short term works, civil works, also like junction redesign, some bit of traffic engineering, which is being done on a day to day basis. Like when we go to the West in different countries or China and all that, there are many places where we go, there's no potholes only. And then when you come back home, and you see so many potholes, they have the same density of population, if not more in many cases, one has to wonder why is it better there than here and what can change see outside of young people seriously considering wanting to be a policeman on this which is what I hope we can accomplish even if we can suggest two or three things to the government you know more than most people know about roads and traffic and all of that what can be changed

1:03:03see I think one is the road usage itself. If you go to good cities, like even Delhi, I mean, let's not compare other cities with Delhi. Heavy goods vehicles don't enter Delhi at all. There are terminals where they come and they exit from there. They don't enter the city. So, a highway is built according to those standards. You cannot have highway standards inside a city for collector roads or sub collector roads. There are certain standards which are to be maintained. So if Bangalore had a peripheral network where you could just bypass the heavy goods vehicles, all transportation goods, they wouldn't ply on our outer ring road or inside the city.

1:03:50And is that what is damaging the road the most? No, no, no. I'm saying the standard of road required for such a heavy vehicle to ply on, on a regular basis, cannot be maintained inside a city. So that's an example of one of the factors for congestion. It can be for road maintenance. The second thing is our drainage systems. Our drainage systems need to be improved. It is being done now. Water logging becomes a major hurdle for traffic management, especially during rainy season. That needs to be improved. So you're saying there are so many of these issues that you guys don't have control over, but you take the blame off?

1:04:32Yeah, traffic that is the problem. Traffic management. Traffic police has very minimal role in that. Otherwise most of the things fall in the realm of other departments. They have to work with. That's why coordination becomes a major task of head of traffic police, whoever is there. With BBMP, with BDA, with NHAI. So many other agencies you have to work. BWSSB, BESCOM. because somebody leaks the road then somebody again digs it. So these kind of problems keep occurring. Is there any other common sense kind of thing that you think should be implemented by the government but is not being implemented?

1:05:09Not just in traffic, it could be in crime, any other department. What can the government change which will make policing better? In traffic management, yes. Traffic management is the public transport which needs to be even more focused, more stress. It should happen faster also, right? I don't know. Could the metro not have been built faster? I am not blaming one government or the other because I think every government has passed by. But shouldn't the metro have been completed faster than the amount of time it has taken or is taking? The challenges they faced were also like that. The rock for me, like for example that underground rock near Majestika, Vidhan Sauda.

1:05:48Vidhan Sauda. The cutting machine. They never expected that kind of a problem to occur. Those kind of things does come up. But then one common sense this thing is that flyovers do not solve fully traffic problems. Yeah. Just shifts congestion from one point to the next one. Then why do people keep building flyovers? Even now it's being built. That's one of the common sense this thing which is missing probably. So instead of flyover, focus that money and time on? Public transport. Like metro. Metro. Metro, I don't know. BMTC, increase the strength of BMTC buses. and... Metro, I don't know if this number is right.

1:06:27Like when me and Anuchet was speaking earlier about that air taxi thing, somebody was telling me to build a kilometer of metro line, it costs something like 150 crores. Long term... Can I have a regular coffee? Cappuccino? Yeah. Yeah. Would you like sugar in it? Yeah, yeah. With some sugar. You can... You can take this off. They're right. Yeah.

1:06:56You can try the au cut up close to us. Yeah, I'll try this. The food is nice. Looks good. So I'll tell you, the agenda for places like this, right? I have a fund. So we pick niche Indian brands. Like Indian, when I say clothing, there's a brand called 1111. So we are trying to create an ecosystem of all these Indian first brands. And say, don't buy LV Gucci, buy Indian. Yeah. in every capacity we don't have exposure in the auto space but we still tell they're there also buy Indian cars, buy Indian clothes but is it happening or difficult? it's happening to some extent because these Gucci and all that become fashion statements they had I think 5-10 years ago but off late I don't know there seems to be a big shift from LV Gucci to I think streetwear brands in India people are using rebellion as a emotion that they're resonating with a lot what do you think of movies sir where hero is beating up police and making police look bad I think in large part why people are scared of police people is also Bollywood movie every hero is like you know at the end of the movie the hero is either beating up the corrupt policeman or something on those movies don't reflect the reality Especially the Indian movies.

1:08:19They don't reflect the reality. They might not reflect the reality, but they have a big part to play in the psychology of the masses. Absolutely. That's true. No, but there are movies which have lionized police as well. Singham, The Bank. No, either that extreme or this. But reality is absolutely missing. I think the only film which came close was Ard Satya. Go in Nihalani 40 years back. Ard Satya. Which other Hindi movie or Kannada movie has really come close to depicting police reality? Maybe Surferosh to some extent. Yeah, that was a great movie. I saw a Kannada movie, a smiling Buddha. Yeah, that was it.

1:08:57KGF was not it.

1:09:01He destroys a police station in that. But people like that. if you watch that movie when Yash goes to the police station with that automatic thing and shoots the whole thing first thing no policeman dies in that scene I was just trying to remember that scene and then when he walks into the police station most people the policemen are like oh Rocky bhai I'm so scared of you they depict that emotion but the public loves that why does the public love a gangster who policemen are scared of. This has been the theme for a long time in many, many movies. It has been stereotyped like that over the years.

1:09:47And that popular perception has remained. Like I was watching Pushpa of late. Like even there he goes to a police station, hires all the police people. Like why do people like this? Is it they are scared of something? What they are scared of is scared of another thing. And that is appealing to them. They find resonance in that. I don't know. I have never psychoanalized these things. But I think it's an entertainment factor. I think we should leave it at that. I think there's no point. See, the thing is, to be very honest, they don't at least depict reality as it is. You can't expect it to depict the reality.

1:10:27If you want to do it, then it's not entertaining. Otherwise, it is no longer a movie. It becomes a documentary. So I think whatever works as an entertainment value, people do so. People will do it. We should see it for what it is a movie and enjoy it. If possible. Yesterday I was training with my gym trainer called Shodan. I know him. Yeah. He was talking about you. He was saying you go for bike rides with that guy Raghu, right? Yeah. He used to also be a gym trainer? Yeah. We used to workout together. In the JP Nagar gym? No. Now he works in JP Nagar. We used to work out in Indranagar Gold's Gym and Pounds and all that.

1:11:02So yesterday morning, we were both working out together. He was talking about you and he was saying how you go for bike rides. Tell us where that love for bikes came from. Love for bikes is a newfound passion. But of course, based on being a Bangalorean, like we were talking about traffic and all those things. Bangalore is a city of two-wheelers. So nearly about 77, 75. 72. 72 % of the vehicles in Bangalore City are two wheelers. So, as I said, I have grown up with number one dogs and second thing is bikes. So bikes has been my passion during the rest days also. Even when I was in the districts, I always used to keep one or two bikes at home.

1:11:45Of course, police bikes only, maybe Bullets or RD350. In Belgama, I had kept RD350 and then I had a Bullets and all that. So that has continued like this. Nowadays, biking has also picked up in Bangalore City. So where do you ride? It's a big time place. Where do you ride? We go for short rides. We can't go for long overnight rides and all that. Generally, we go for short rides. Maybe breakfast rides. We have been to Nandi Hills. We have been to all popular spots in and around Bangalore. Today, we went to Kanwa Dam, Magdi. I used to go for bike rides in Bangalore. Again, 10 years ago. And one bike I ever bought, I bought it 14, 15 years ago.

1:12:26I still have it. But you're both very unlike police people. Going for bike rides, going to Toyota, chilling. Very like... I want to get this image of a policeman from this reality into the camera so other people can see as well. How do we do that? You'll have to talk about some... Again, the point is you can't stereotype police to be in a particular way. Different police officers have their own passion, their own past-time hobbies and other things. Some are interested in literature, some are interested in music, some are interested in many other things in their past-time. Now I am doing biking, earlier I used to do cycling.

1:13:11So it keeps changing also. But then you need some activity also to be with your own friends and all that. And also like I said, it's not that police horses are any different. They are all from the same society. They are not falling from the sky or something like that. Yeah. You can just take this. But still everybody is scared of police, you know. Like walking into a police station for most people is a very scary experience. Not any longer in my opinion. That's again another stereotype of police which people have. But I don't think, I don't see any people really scared of people nowadays in the present scenario.

1:13:48At least in a city like Bangalore, maybe in a rural setup we may think that it could be a possibility. But then in a city like Bangalore, I don't think people know their rights. People know what is law, what is expected of Kudish. Bangalore police has a very quirky social media presence. I think it's very good. Who's behind that project? Who did it? Who's handling those accounts? It has evolved over the years. We started with Twitter and all those things, then moved to Facebook. Now we have moved to Instagram and YouTube. We started live streaming many of our events like press conferences, public contact programs.

1:14:33So basically we are trying to be present on all social media channels. The idea is to again communicate with the people, convey what we want to convey to them directly rather than depending on the mainstream media or the electronic media. Convey directly to the people. It always helps. That trust what he was talking about. You can build that kind of trust with the people if your presence is. Any message sir to the youth who is considering a role in police? A job in police? A job in police, like I have already said, is in terms of job security or in terms of even the societal status, prestige and other things.

1:15:18Barring those things also, like I said, it is a job where you can provide instant justice to the people whenever they come to you with some problems, some difficulty. Instant justice can have a very wrong connotation in that. Not the vigilante kind of justice. It is instant justice in the sense quick relief. It is possible only with the police department and you can earn immense goodwill of the people if you work for the people or with the people and solve their problems. Is it like a very tightly knit community? All policemen are friends with other policemen? Yeah, fraternity is strong. Fraternity, it depends on the, like, there's the IPS fraternity.

1:16:04Officers who work with generally, if you work with for some time, Yeah, then you do become… We say once a cop, always a cop. Once a cop, always a cop? You mean between policemen? Between. Worldwide also, you just go and identify yourself as a cop, maybe in the UK or other things. The policeman there immediately connects with you. Yeah. That's always there. I have been on a UN peacekeeping mission. I was in Kosovo for about a year or so. So, there were 48 country police agencies represented there. So generally the bonding and the gelling which happens is very quick. You must have seen some crazy crimes in your career, right?

1:16:45Yeah. Like some… Crimes are always, you know, ghastly, brutal. Would you like to like narrate one particular like gist of one thing? Like scale has to be crazy. Something that really surprised you. No, better not discuss. The details are so ghastly. Ghastly. There are which affect us also. Like I mean, you would have seen many things, but some do affect us also. So, let's not discuss those things. Better not. What is the problem in Bangalore crime-wise? Crime-wise, like I said, nowadays we are moving from conventional crimes to the economic crimes, financial crimes, cyber crimes. That has been the trend nowadays.

1:17:28the conventional crimes are coming down like maybe the property offenses, the chain snatching, the mobile snatching, this kind of thing. So now we are having nearly about 20-25 % of our crimes are cyber crimes now. Maybe in the coming days in certain divisions it is already it has already crossed 40-45 % like Whitefield division and Southeast division about 40 % of the crimes are cyber crimes. Like? So like the various phishing basically the cyber frauds the digital arrest thing then earlier we had this FedEx career fraud then investment fraud that is stock brokerage these things they use various means to defraud the people and these criminals are in Bangalore or from outside most of the times outside because cyber crimes are unlike conventional crimes where you have to go to the spot and then take the risk of physically being there and then attempting and all that these are faceless borderless anonymous crimes and this anonymity is the thing which makes other people, you know, to believe them more.

1:18:30Like when we are sitting in a physical world, I can gauge you, I can understand you based on your voice, based on your body language and other things. But then somebody will start talking to you or develops a communication through WhatsApp or Telegram and then says that this talk is good, this talk is bad. So basically, you should just not reply to unsolicited. Absolutely. Stuff. I don't know, there's this issue of anonymity making you feel more relaxed. Like if you meet some stranger on the road, You wouldn't give your birthday to him. But why do you do that online? I would have assumed the opposite is true.

1:19:04But it isn't, right? Because most of the frauds are done through social engineering. Maybe because people think date of birth is not so important. What can anybody do with your date of birth? Like for me, my date of birth will be public. Anybody can just Google it. I'm just saying that the fact is that you feel more comfortable sharing to a stranger online than physically. You generally lower your guard in the cyber world. I think so, yeah. Generally. I think cyber hygiene needs to be taught in schools because today, like even the way you put your privacy status, right, on whatever social media you're on, I think everybody generally makes their life, you know, public, which might give an opportunity for a cyber criminal to misuse that.

1:19:54what are five tips cyber crime that you can give not to share your personal details not to share the OTP not to click these unknown links and not to listen to any unsolicited advice on this thing don't be download APK files which you don't know of and don't translate money matters with strangers your bank will not call you. That's one simple thing. Again, a common sense. Common sense of thing. Because banks are, I know, I mean, if you go to any bank's website or any of this, first thing in the ticker is banks do not call you for any of this thing, right? So those small tips, if you can remember.

1:20:40And the thing is, in case you fall prey as well, right? It's important to dial 1930 to report it. Because there's a mechanism to, at least in financial frauds to stop the flow of money. Report it immediately. 1930. Or 112. Chance of getting back your money is more if you report quickly. There is a system where everything is integrated with the financial system and all that. So a complaint is raised and that flow of funds is stopped. So there is a high probability of getting back the money. Like in traffic accident there is a concept of golden hour. So within that one hour or so if the injured is shifted to the hospital either is survival or the injury rate will be lesser.

1:21:26Survival rate will be higher rather. Similarly in cybercrime also the quicker you inform the better is the chance of recovery. Anuchet, any final message to the youth who want to be policemen maybe? Yeah, I think it's a very nice exciting career to be in. Like I said if you are service oriented you want to do something bring about a change however small or however incremental it can be and if you look for a challenging and exciting kind of a job which varies day to day and gives you a lot of opportunities to work in various sectors I think this is the job to be in so anybody interested please please do take up take it up take up one of the four solving crimes has been the you know kind of a passion for many of the right from young age it's a Sherlock yeah Sherlock kind of thing so So nowadays in police department, you come across several such cases wherein till the crime is solved, you feel like it's a big puzzle kind of thing.

1:22:24Once it is solved, then you realize, oh, it's so simple. Unfortunately, there's not been one good series on how investigation is done. Sherlock Holmes have you seen? I love that. Yeah, of course. But I mean, not everything is as they make it out to be. But there are some connections that you do during any investigation. I think that's, I mean, some extraordinary cases are there. If they would, I think they would do a good job of making that. So go into the depth of any investigation. It's really fascinating. Very fascinating. Really, really fascinating. It's actually such a killer show if somebody makes it.

1:22:58But will you, as police, share? Because then your methods come out in the open, right? That problem is there. It is there. But I think at least the nuances of investigation or the soft skills required to do that. and the methodologies employed. That's all the more reason that youngster should join the department. Know how fascinating it is. You do not get it in public domain. How does it feel to like hold a gun and be in uniform? Very personally. Like whenever I see a policeman, I've never had a gun. So I feel like, how do I know how it feels? Like wearing that uniform, having a gun, feeling powerful, even when you're walking down a road.

1:23:40It must feel different. When you wear uniform, forget about the gun gun. It's just one aspect of it. But when you wear a uniform, your gait changes, you are more confident, your attitude, your behavior in public, this thing. And you are looked up also by the public in that fashion. So generally the confidence level is higher when you wear uniform compared to when you are not. That is always there. Weapon is just a part of our job. I don't think we give much importance to it. And nowadays, you hardly get a chance to use it also. At least not at all. Not at all. And there's a certain amount of pride as well.

1:24:20Pride is definitely there. Pride of uniform is definitely there. The other person's attitude also changes. Yeah. Everybody must see you and think something else. It's not like seeing a normal person. It isn't. So that's the whole identifier of a khaki uniform. So you're identified as police. they may not know your name or XYZ or your rank or whatever it is, but you identify as a police. So that itself is like that's the discerning difference between wearing a plaincloth and a uniform. Forget about the RPS, even the sub-inspector, even the constable. So his social status, societal, this thing is different compared to a person who is working in other departments or in private.

1:25:01The last part when you guys spoke about uniform and gun, it sounded like I felt like, wow, this must be a good feeling. I'm trying to figure out what is the trigger where a young kid goes online and says how to be a policeman. What I personally feel is that in India, it requires a social change. Wherein you no longer say, if you do something wrong, police will come. As a kid, if you're going to say, police bartharilla utta maddu, you'll have to call police bartharilla, until you start showing it as a fearful kind of a thing, that's not going to change. It's my opinion. What should change? will be the fact that it's more of the respect of the law.

1:25:41And you see them as enforcers of law. That needs to change. And that will happen over a period of time. We are a very nascent, we have this colonial yoke that we need to throw off. It's still not gone. So I think it will take some time. It is changing. And technology and social media is helping that way. To bring about this facet of this thing. So I hope it happens that a person Googles and he finds out, searches for something and he says, how do I become a police officer and how do I join? It'll be a wonderful thing. I think that's going to increase only. But I think we need to, like you said, leverage social media now to bring about that perception change.

1:26:26Saying that this is also something worth striving for and doing. It is just that the inner workings are not known. Even to us, being a son of a police officer, I did not know how this department works minutely as I do now. Right. What is seen is a little bit, what's apparent in the uniform or the movies that you see. I think they shape the perception. I think with… Unfortunately, they don't do a good job. They don't do a good job. It's extreme. But then police job is nowadays the most sought after job. I mean if you go by the number of applications, even for a policeman's job also, lakhs and lakhs are applied.

1:27:07Sub-inspectors job also. Huge number. Huge number of people apply. The posts are very limited. And there are so many coaching centers which are coaching people to apply for the job. And then you have the physical component also. So they train you physically also. So then how to solve the question papers. So a lot of coaching centers are thriving. They're doing a big business out of it. Done. Thank you both for doing this. And thank you for making Sunday so much more fun than my normal Sunday would have been like. Hope you guys had fun. Thank you. It has been our pleasure to interact and understand your perspective and your view of the police and all.

1:27:51So it was quite enjoyable. And it's nice for three Bangaloreans to catch up. Yeah. Let's promote Bangalore subject. Even though that wasn't very subtle.

1:28:06You're a good man, right? Yeah. Sir, you're a good man. Yeah. Very chill. Nice conversation. It's young. It's again body covered. Body covered? Yeah. Thank you.