1. Podcasts
  2. WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
  3. British Band Of Brothers: Operation Bluecoat (Part 6)
WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

24 Aug 2026 · 49m · 18 chapters

Episode artwork

British Band Of Brothers: Operation Bluecoat (Part 6)

In short

Operation Bluecoat (Part 6) in Normandy, July 1944—how the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry (armoured fighting vehicles) fight through the Battle of Hoto, suffer heavy losses, reorganize tactics (including Firefly use), rest and retrain, then prepare for the major breakout/advance south from Caen toward the “heart” of Bluecoat.

Guest backgrounds

No podcast guests are interviewed in this episode. Hosts are Al Murray and James Holland. The episode includes historical letters/accounts by Bill Wharton and Bill Walton, and memoir-style testimony from tank officers/men such as Harry Heenan, Stan Perry, Ken Tout, David Render, Geoffrey Makings, Arthur Reddish, Doug Footit, and others.

Key claims

Paperwork and hidden commissions are discussed via sponsor ads (Refund Club, FCA claims). Militarily: diversions like Hoto are still lethal; British tactics adapt quickly (Firefly squadron reorganization); tank commanders face greatest nervous strain; Allied operational coordination (Goodwood/Cobra/Bluecoat) enables German collapse.

Notable examples

Typhoon rocket “friendly fire” near David Render’s tank; losses at Hoto (Devons 10 dead/56 wounded; Hampshire CO killed; Geoffrey Makings wounded; Doug Footit killed); Stan Perry’s “escape routine” from Sherman tanks; mid-July rest at Shuane/Bayou with NAAFI supplies; Bluecoat planning for A Squadron’s lead role and RAF bomber support.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes.

Chapters

4:05

Life in the Trenches: A Soldier's Letter

Reading a soldier's letter describing a day in battle.

“After another long, tiring day among the fun and games we've had, today we've been out of it for maintenance and rest.”
5:42

Overview of the Sherwood Rangers

Introduction to the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry's story in WWII.

“Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland.”
6:06

Battle Context: Operation Maori 2

Contextualizing the upcoming battles and operations in Normandy.

“Operation Maori 2, which is a diversionary operation in order to draw off and confuse the enemy as Operation Jupiter goes into motion to take Caen again.”
6:44

Artillery Barrage and Battle Conditions

Describing the chaotic conditions of the battle with artillery fire.

“They don't know which one's the main thrust and which one's the diversionary action.”
7:20

Tank Formation Changes and Strategies

Discussing changes in tank formations and their tactical implications.

“So there's stuff going, metal going in both directions.”
8:12

The Role of the Firefly Tank

Explaining the strategic use of the Firefly tank in combat.

“And the radio moved into an armoured box at the back of the turret because the breach of the gun's that much bigger.”
10:46

Casualties and Combat Realities

Discussing the grim realities of combat and the impact of casualties.

“And what they've asked for is rocket firing typhoons who swoop in and dive, mistaking the Shermans for panzers.”
13:14

The Aftermath of the Battle

Reflecting on the losses and experiences of soldiers post-battle.

“C Company in the Hampshire's 53 casualties.”
14:00

The Challenges of Tank Warfare

Explore the harsh realities faced by tank crews in Normandy, including casualties and tactical adaptations.

“It was really very sad as we'd become good pals and somehow he's not at all happy when he left my crew to command a tank of his own.”
28:25

Letter from Bill Walton

A personal letter revealing the emotional state of a soldier during WWII.

“Do you realise, my dear, that our last summer together was 1939?”
Show all 18 chapters
29:28

Reflections on Separation

Discussion on the impact of long separations during wartime on relationships.

“Jim, I mean, you know, again, we need a trigger warning.”
30:04

Tank Squadron Names

Exploration of the unique names given to tanks, reflecting personal stories.

“And the tanks, of course, so we've got A, B and C squadron, as we, as we, last, in the last episode where we laid out how the regiment works and how the squadrons work and how the troops work there within.”
30:59

Daily Life in the Regiment

A look at the daily experiences of soldiers, including camaraderie and challenges.

“And he's the one he wants to call them all these.”
33:36

Strategic Movements and Operations

Overview of significant military operations and strategic movements in July 1944.

“and he wakes up to find a new NAFI, supplies have arrived safely.”
36:18

The Breakthrough in Normandy

Discussion of the pivotal breakthroughs in Normandy and their implications.

“to push the front to the southwest of Caen.”
39:28

Operation Bluecoat Planning

Details on the planning and execution of Operation Bluecoat by British forces.

“and American strategic bombing is brought in because that's one of the things that's happened for the Normandy offensive is the strategic bombing campaign.”
42:00

The Strategic Setup for Operation Bluecoat

Learn about the strategic decisions and commanders involved in Operation Bluecoat.

“On the same day, the 27th of July, that the breakthrough happens in Cobra, this is when Monty orders that drive south from Comont itself.”
47:42

The Build-Up to the Battle for Brickhizar

Discover the logistical challenges and preparations leading to the Battle for Brickhizar.

“So for A squadron specifically, they're going to clear a wood north of Bricassar and then support the Fifth Dorsets in taking Le Mesneau-Lèvreux, which is a farmstead.”
A man walking through an airport, asking his phone a question

Ask about this episode

Get the gist, explore an idea or ask about something said.

Claude

On WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk, what are the key points of this episode?

Searching your listening

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:02Thank you for listening to We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com slash we have ways.

0:23this episode is brought to you by refund club now if there is one eternal lesson of history it's that paperwork matters the forgotten agreement the line in the ledger often that's where the story changes and there's a paper trail that could rewrite your own history if you financed a car in the uk between 2007 and 2021 with lenders like blackhorse or barclays you could be owed money. Yeah, the check takes about 60 seconds. I ran my details and a couple of old agreements popped out without needing any relic registration numbers. And it's completely free to check. You only pay a fee if your claim is successful.

1:00How about that? The Financial Conduct Authority confirmed that millions of UK drivers were hit with hidden commissions. And if you finance more than one car since 2007, each could be a separate claim, with the average payout at£829 a pop. It all adds up. If you're a driver in the UK, visit refundclub.co.uk slash whw. That's refundclub.co.uk slash whw for your free check. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas, or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer, and no surprises along the way.

1:52WISE keeps things simple. WISE is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies. Most transfers arrive instantly. WISE uses the mid-market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees. So when money needs to move, you can see the rate, know the fee and get on with it. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees by downloading the Wise app today. Be smart, get wise, T's and C's apply. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help.

2:31ZepBound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. ZepBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZepBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it.

3:08Or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZEPBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZEPBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

3:39Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounce.lily.com.

4:04Hello, darling. After another long, tiring day among the fun and games we've had, today we've been out of it for maintenance and rest. Yesterday was the most miserable time since we landed, even though, as far as enemy action was concerned, it was unusually quiet. We set out for a rendezvous with some friends of ours on the previous evening, with whom we stood two all night. At that unearthly hour of 4.30, which we have all come to know so well, we moved forward into battle positions to begin a day which, for sheer misery, it would be hard to beat. It was cold and the grey skies opened their hearts and wept upon us.

4:36All that day I stood with head and shoulders exposed, peering into the rain and waiting for something that was never to happen. We did take a chance on a couple of occasions when a stout-hearted gentleman from Oldham, my third remember, dismounted and brewed up. We also made some stew and never was food more welcome. However, at nine o 'clock in the evening we were relieved and we sped back joyfully to the comparative quiet of our present position. We did receive a farewell gesture from our friends in the shape of a few airbursts above our heads as we pulled out but except for the odd piece of shrapnel among the kit no damage was done wet through to the skin i soon remedied that state of affairs by stripping and washing having a good stiff tot of rum and then placing my head under a tarpaulin i laid me down to rest and dream of you yes darling i felt really grand then and set out to make it as perfect as possible by thinking of you which i did for precisely one minute and then the rain and my weariness won the day and I drifted off into delightful slumber.

5:31And that was a letter from Bill Wharton from B Squadron, Sherwood Rangers, as a lieutenant of the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry, writing to his wife Marion on the 28th of June 1944. Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. And for episode five of our Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry series, or perhaps episode 2.1, depending on how you're coming at it, as we return to the story of the British band of brothers, this fabled regiment of yeomanry, armoured fighting vehicle people in Normandy in 1944. We left the last episode with the Battle of Hoto about to commence, Operation Maori 2, which is a diversionary operation in order to draw off and confuse the enemy as Operation Jupiter goes into motion to take Caen again.

6:23But as is always the way with these things, any diversionary battle is still a battle for those who are involved in it. It's still incredibly lethal. Battles are battle. Bullets are flying around. Yeah, a battle is a battle. And certainly from everyone's perspective, you know, the Germans are going to resist and do what they can to thwart it, whatever it might be, because they don't know. Germans don't know which one's which. They don't know which one's the main thrust and which one's the diversionary action. It's kind of all the same when you're being stonked and turned over by the other side, isn't it?

6:54At seven o 'clock that morning on the 10th of July, the battle begins with a huge artillery barrage that goes in, opening fire, machine gun mortars, the ground shaking, hotto and the surrounding fields and woods and orchards. And that's what you have in Normandy, these villages with these orchards that sit beside them on the approaches usually. Everything's shrouded in smoke and dust thrown up by the shelling. The Germans try some counter-battery fire. So there's stuff going, metal going in both directions. And inside the tank, because, you know, your hatch is down at this point, aren't you? As this fire's going on.

7:33Except the commander, possibly. You've got the smell of smoke, exhaust, oil, the rubber, the sweat, and the sheer racket of it all going off. must be incredibly i mean your senses must be overwhelmed let alone the the fear that goes with going forward yeah and also you know you're going to have you know in your tank you're going to have bits of shrapnel bits of wood from trees bullets it's going to be pinging and rattling all around you it's going to be extremely alarming the other thing is is that they've slightly changed their formation in a squadron for for sure and this is the influence of john semkin before he gets moved on by the new guy major jeffrey makins and he has decided to rearrange his squadron so from now on there's going to be four troops of four each with a firefly and then only three tanks in squadron headquarters so instead of having the five troops of three tanks there's now four troops of four with their firefly which is the high velocity 17 pounder gun in the in the in the sherman turret With the weapon turned on its side so that you could fit it in and all that stuff.

8:43And the radio moved into an armoured box at the back of the turret because the breach of the gun's that much bigger. But it's interesting that, isn't it? Because, you know, adding the Firefly makes them for stronger subunits. He's got less to think about with four rather than five, hasn't he? He hasn't got five moving parts to think about when he's commanding. That's a good point. I'd never thought of that. Because after all, it's a lot to keep track of because you've got the different radio nets, haven't you, as a tank commander, you've got the regimental net and then you've got your local one.

9:12With fewer moving parts, his job might be slightly less complex. Yes, I hadn't thought of that, but I think that's a really, really good point. The other thing about what Semkin thinks about using the Firefly is you don't use it in the traditional tank role. You use it as massive high velocity gun, which is of course what it is. yeah um so you would use your your three tank ordinary 75 millimeter gun sherman in their traditional role and then you get on the radio and go right we need some extra firepower here come forward there's the target hit it yeah so so the firefly is kind of holding back a little bit so if you've got four tanks you know that it's a firefly at the back the main 75 millimeter gun at the front that's how it works yeah i mean also because the range of the 17 pound is greater it can be further back.

10:02It can, you know, because it can be effective from further back. So you're protecting the asset and also you're not exposing it. And also you're working within its capability. Although so much of the Normandy encounters, as we said earlier about, you know, you go around the corner and there's someone dug in who has a pop at you. So, and a close range encounters. The interesting thing is the Firefly is pretty brand new and they're only just getting it when Overlord begins. So, of course, they're going to reorganise and experiment and try and shake it down to figure out how best to use it rather than stick to what they're doing.

10:41And this, you know, adaptability in the British Army. Here's an example for those who doubt the existence thereof.

10:53and it's also i think it reflects well on jeffrey makings that that he accepts this change that semkin his junior has put in place yeah yeah he hasn't said no i'm the new guy we're gonna change it back you know anything like that yeah yeah yeah yeah but as i say david render who's one of the uh a squadron stalwarts now even though he only just arrives just after d-day um uh he's not impressed he goes a bloody great battle it was no good for maneuvering in that god-awful close country i mean you can see he's quite down on the whole thing yeah surprisingly get off the fence david on the day the um the regiment knocks out um seven tanks in total a squadron claiming four and there's an enemy account counter attack at 1700 hours which is dealt with but they've also run out of run out of steam for their second objective that day too so you know it's it's not one step forward two steps back it's two steps forward one step back isn't it you are going forwards but not never at the rate you hope never ever never ever and you know people can be late to their start line and all that sort of stuff but there is a there is a cock up isn't there yes because because the infantry have requested close air support but no one's bothered to tell the armor which is it's just it's just a classic heat of the moment school boy era they're working with people they haven't worked with since d-day everyone's changed anyway because all the people were on D-Day, injured or dead or whatever.

12:15So they haven't thought to tell them. And what they've asked for is rocket firing typhoons who swoop in and dive, mistaking the Shermans for panzers. So two rockets explode just beside David Render's tank, showering him with shrapnel, well, showering the tank with shrapnel. Three more typhoons dive down. No one's hit, but many are hit by the blast. And Harry Heenan is absolutely horrified, isn't he? 20-year-old Harry Heenan, he's just arrived at the end of June. It was a horrible experience. there a terrifying weapon i have a piece of shrapnel that exploded about a foot from above my head you know that's what it's like being attacked by typhoons and very often you know when we when we talk well you know when people talk about the typhoon in the normandy battle how effective it is well there we go that's what it's like don't need a german account it's absolutely miserable it's horrible dick holman um he's only just turned 21 and has all his presence in his top in a tarpaulin on the back of a tank and they're all ripped to shreds Oh no!

13:12Yes. Big losses that day. Devons lose 10 dead, 56 wounded. Hampshire's CO is killed. C Company in the Hampshire's 53 casualties. During the combat, Arthur Reddish, other casualties, Geoffrey Makings, who's just turned up to take over A Squadron. He's wounded in the stomach and faced by shrapnel. 10 other SRA men wounded. And Doug Footit, who is a former gunner at Stuart Hills, his tank, who accepts a promotion, he's killed. He's killed. So Arthur Reddish did the right thing, didn't he? But they're all absolutely distraught. Stuart Hills is distraught. Reddish is distraught. You know, they're all muckers.

13:49But what it does mean, of course, is that Geoffrey Makings is now out of the place. So who are you going to call? You're going to call John Semkin, aren't you? So he's back in command of A Squadron after kind of four days off. Yeah, and Arthur Reddish says about Doug Footy, he says it was really very sad. Rights to his mum. Rights to his mum. It was really very sad as we'd become good pals and somehow he's not at all happy when he left my crew to command a tank of his own. God. But because they're Peter out on the 11th, they have to carry on on the 12th. A and B squadrons climb the ridge because it's high ground here, everybody.

14:21Negligible ridge, it has to be said. The binos, you can see down somewhere, you know. It's just rubble really now, Hotto. It's overdoing it to call it a village at this point. Heenan describes it, doesn't he? He says, Hotto was one of those nasty little two-day affairs with limited objectives. That is the Normandy Schlacht, isn't it? The Normandy battle. But they then go back down to Folio and then back across to Tuane, which is their kind of sort of rest area. And there they stay until the 17th of July. And they've lost 40 tank commanders since D-Day. And six at Hotto alone. Bloody hell. I mean, most wounded, to be fair, not all dead.

14:59That conjures up images of young subalterns in the First World War who've got to go first, who've got to leave. Doesn't it? Yeah. And they're just completely exhausted. And the truth is, is 8th Armour McGaid is in an absolute mess. And the 24th Lancers have had even more casualties than them. You remember the Sherwood Rangers are the... They're the 3rd Regiment because they're territorial. A junior, yeah. And it looks like they might be cancelled. They might be scrapped, but they're not. but this is scraping together and they only survive because the 24th Lancers are dismantled. So the whole host of 24th Lancers comes to fill in B-Squadron of the Sherwood Rangers.

15:41But during this time of rest, they're taking on new guys, new people, but it also forces them to stop and kind of analyse their experiences so far because this is very much learning on the hoof. You remember that conversation we had with John Buckley a while ago about British tactics and how you have principles, but because the landscape is so different and because there's no means of training in Britain beforehand, because it's full of pollulating with millions of troops and there's just no training grounds available for everyone to train, you've got to use your residual experience and then adapt to the new situation and geography in which you find yourself.

16:21And this is what they've been having to do in June and up until July so far. But now there is a bit of a pause. So this is Con has been captured. Hill 112 hasn't been captured yet. But there is a bit of a pause and certainly in their part of the line. And this gives them the chance to kind of reconvene, take on new troops, think about it and assess their tactics and how they're doing things. And, you know, one report notes that the driver suffers the greatest physical strain, but the tank commander is subject to the greatest nervous strain resulting from constant tension, especially in combat.

16:54that well you know you can see why can't you and there's so many issues for tank men i mean there's a visibility there's dust and grit and it gets into the eyes in the back of the front and you and i've been on a tank we've been down a road and you you know i i got jimber i got you a pair of period goggles yeah but anyhow you needed them didn't you yeah yeah yeah you absolutely needed them yeah and that's just going down roads the heat inside the tank is like an oven outside it can be freezing the fumes are noxious even though they've got extractors yeah it's still filthy in there yeah um you're only supposed to spend maximum of 10 hours in a tank per day but many men are kind of going well past this i mean you know the conditions are brutal part of that is because the days are so long because it's high summer so dawn is at what 4 30 or 5 um so you're stood too well before that and then you're getting back up you're coming back after dark Mark, you're getting in, you're refueling, you're repairing, you're equipping, you're eating.

17:51The officers are going to tomorrow's O Group. Going to O Groups. And so on and so forth. The days are really, really long. Ken Tout's account of this tank, exclamation mark, of his experience in Normandy, are all about this. How long the days are. And I think it's interesting, isn't it, Jim? Because you've residual memory from previous campaigns before D-Day. Now you're a good month in. What you've got now, or six weeks in, what you've got now is actual experience. And so that you can then feed the experience from that theatre. You can then add that to supplement your training or countermand the training and rebuild your doctrine from there, which strikes me as actually entirely sensible and also your only option.

18:39It's your only option. You've not been in this theatre before, so you've no way of knowing until you actually do it. So I think a lot of the British are green and they get stuff wrong in Normandy. Well, they haven't been to Normandy. No one's fought in these conditions before in the British Army. No one knows, yeah. No one knows, Jim. And I also think, I think the other thing that's really interesting is the systems are improving. When you look at the fighting just after D-Day, for instance, in the airborne lodgement around the Battle for Breville Ridge, where they have all these drop shorts with the artillery where, you know, the rounds fall short because their comms aren't up to speed yet.

19:15They've only been doing it a few days. They haven't perfected the techniques. They haven't worked out that you're better off with code names that are much clearer over the radio and distinct. You know, that if you've got a Scottish battery and you're from Lancashire talking to them, that you've got to be able to understand one another. And all these things, this is the chance to iron all this stuff out. You know, especially six weeks into the campaign, this is an opportunity to figure out things that no one knew and this i think that a lot of the criticism of the battle for normandy is ah they get this wrong they get well no no one no one no one knew because they hadn't done it before so they're actually i think not doing badly given that no one knew because they hadn't done it before no either do incredibly well but but i also think you know it's you're dependent on the smart guys in the in the regimen who are thinking about these things and analyzing it and and you know whether it's a John Semkin who's sort of, you know, realigning how you construct your squadron, or whether it's someone like Stan Perry, who those who came to the first We Have Ways Festival remember, we were lucky enough to get him on stage and talk to him about his experience.

20:23He was the last surviving officer of the Sherwood Rangers. And he'd arrived like a few days into the campaign and had been sent up to the Sherwood Rangers where he joined C Squadron. and he you know again he's kind of 19 years old 20 years old you know he he's got the wit about him he's a bright kid he's he you know he could have gone to cambridge he's thinking okay what's my best chance of survival here what's the best chance of survival my crew what can i do about this so he he learns very very quickly and one of the things he he you know he's a working class boy from burryst edmunds his father worked in the tate and lyle factory the sugar factory there they're deeply religious is his parents and teetotal perry's had this lovely happy upbringing but he's he's athletic and he's clever so he does go to emmanuel college in cambridge to study maths on a scholarship but by 1941 he drops out to volunteer for the war effort when he's still only 17.

21:17wow cycles to an raf recruitment office in cambridge with a friend persuaded to join the young soldiers regiment at bovington instead and there he trains he moves on to sandhurst where his PTI instructor, his physical training instructor is Matt Busby of Manchester United in England. He says he used to take us out on a six and a half mile run every morning. He would lead and would turn around and say, I'll sweat the beer out of you, you idle puggers. Really funny. And then in 1943, he's about to be posted to North Africa with the SAS, travels all the way to Alexandria for an interview and was accepted, but then sent straight back home ago because by you know when he was sent out there they were still in the middle east yeah but by the time he's had it they moved back so he gets back and he gets in a in a in a scrap with johnny cooper doesn't like johnny cooper at all johnny cooper's sort of pushing him around picks on him so he he smacks him one and paddy main says to him takes him to one side and says look you need to find a find a new regiment or get court-martialed for striking superior officer right so perry goes okay well thanks very much i'll i'll get off and and he gets he gets in touch with stewart hills who he's met at sandhurst and hill says well you know come and join the soi you know come and join the show and range it's great here so he applies and does and gets in trains over portsmouth arrives on d plus three so there he is and and he he recognizes very very quickly that escaping from a tank is the number one priority.

22:50Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has this new... Do you want to be, Stan? Why not? As soon as the troop moved off, I would call a halt and dismount. And I expected my tank crew and my troop tanks to bail out immediately, no matter where they were or what the ground was like. I thought it was important we had routines and quick reactions. You didn't mess about. I remember him saying that we have Waysfest 1 at our very first festival. The most important piece of equipment on the tank was the shovel. because when you finally came to a halt and you were safe, you needed to get out and go for a crap. You needed to shovel from the crew.

23:24It's so true. I remember that too. And he develops a system for getting out quickly. So the gunner would put his shoulder under the tank commander's backside, give him a shove to help him out of the turret. The operator puts his shoulders under the gunner to push him up. Then the gunner would reach down and pull up the operator. He would just stop and just repeat this drill at random times. He'd go, come on, how you get? And everyone gets sick of it and moans, but he hopes that the routine would stick as a kind of muscle memory in a case of panic. And the reason you need to do this is this one hatch on the turret of the Sherman they're in at this point.

23:57The Firefly has a second hatch, doesn't it? Because the breach of the gun is so enormous that the loader can't get out. But if anyone's been in a Sherman tank, the mark that they're in, the five, the hatch is the other side if you're the loader. A little bit of the same knowledge, I think, of our audience. For those of you who've been in a Sherman tank. Well, yeah, but I'm sure one or two. But this is the point. Well, I remember, I mean, again, a very long time ago, Ken Tout explained to me how to get out. And I tried to get out of the Sherman ahead at Cobra. And it was extremely difficult, particularly someone my size.

24:34And, you know, we are talking about smaller people. But particularly if the gunner's stuck, then the operator isn't getting out. And if the commander can't get out, no one's getting out, which is why he's got the gunner pushing the commander out. Because if he's dead, which is the most likely situation, you need to push his body out of the way. It's not necessarily about pushing a living man clear, is it? Because the commander sat in the exit or stood in the exit. That's what Stan Perry's taking into account here, isn't it? is that he could easily be dead in this situation and he wants his men to know what to do if he's been killed.

25:10He's amazing. He's obviously got a very natural authority. He's a natural leader of men, even though he's only 20 years old. When he arrived, sort of wet behind the ears, as a brand new, you know, troop leader, all the guys in his tank talk in a kind of form of slang that they assume he can't understand. And he works it out. He breaks the slang in about half an hour, works it out and just listens to them for a day and then talks back at them and they're all like okay oh yeah all right you got us the allies are doing well but it's as we've seen from this episode it's it's costing this kind of warfare you can do well big time you've got to be prepared to pay the price that a tritting means you're a tritting too there's no other way of there is no other way of doing this and the fact is that the allies can afford it at the moment the germans can't is the key to the way the battle's being fought.

26:03The Germans, they're losing and they're not boxing clever, but it involves doing their damnedest to kill as many people as they possibly can. And they're good at that. So we'll take a brief break here and we'll see how the SRY get on with the next phase of the Normandy battle. We'll see you in a moment.

26:27starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like shopify they have the tools you need to start and grow your business from designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond shopify can help with everything you need there's a reason millions of companies like mattel heinz and all birds continue to trust and use them with shopify on your side? Turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash special offer. Shaq here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvana 100 % online and get it delivered to your door? Let me tell you.

27:02Your car is here, Mr. Shaq. Thank you, Mr. Carvana guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return I've learned it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just$15 a month.

27:37Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.

28:00Welcome back to We Have Ways to Make You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. I thought it'd be good to do another little letter from Bill Walton. Now that life has become easier this last week or so for us, you realise what a time we had during the first month, which I should hate to have to go through again. People tell me I'm thinner, which I can see in my face now as that of a sinister gangster. Must have it softened up a little before I come home. Yesterday was a sunny day, which made me think of summer back home with you. Do you realise, my dear, that our last summer together was 1939?

28:33We married. I haven't played tennis then. Haven't seen you in shorts. We haven't swum or sunbathe together or picked strawberries. What a lot we have to make up for, darling. And to think that when we're together next summer, there will be three of us. Well, I must go soon to ginger up my crew into preparing a meal. They're all probably asleep in my absence. Heaven knows how we'll get on in this rain, a cold meal in prospect. We still use the old desert technique of cooking over an old petrol tin, half full of earth and saturated with petrol. There is a movement afoot for the cooks to prepare our meals and bring them up to us.

29:06The snag is that the rations will not be so plentiful. I know army cooks of old. I'd love to be walking with you in this rain and then to return home to a hot bath and a really nice dinner. And then you could put on your lipstick, darling, to make me take it off. That indeed would be a better way of spending this grey rainy day. Yours as ever, with all my love, Bill. Too personal? Jim, I mean, you know, again, we need a trigger warning. episode contains burning horse and sauciness i mean honestly he wants he wants to kiss off a kiss off and get down to a little bit of hanky panky oh that'll do that'll do we're not there we're a family show thank you very much well it's lovely isn't it i mean it's just it's us it's it's just you realize what these guys have you know he hasn't then properly been together since 1939 and And here they are in nearly August 1944.

30:00I mean, it's July still, but, you know, it's nearly five years. So mid-July, we have replacement officers and tanks arriving, as we've outlined. And the tanks, of course, so we've got A, B and C squadron, as we, as we, last, in the last episode where we laid out how the regiment works and how the squadrons work and how the troops work there within. So A, B and C squadron, this is fairly common in the, in armoured formations, isn't it? The tanks and A squadron have an A beginning with A, right? Let's see if you can crack this code, ladies and gentlemen. The tanks in B squadron, A's beginning with B, and the tanks in C squadron, you got it, C.

30:36So Harry Heenan's tank in A squadron is called Alpha. And Stan Perry, he is given Caligula, inherits Caligula. I should just say that this whole notion of calling them with these names comes from James Darcy Anderson, who was the commander of the Sherwood Rangers only very briefly before D-Day and then gets wounded on D-Day. And he's the one he wants to call them all these. Well, because Stan Perry says there was a bit of a classical theme going on, I suppose one of the better read senior officers. Stan Perry, he loves what George Dring, who's this incredible figure within the regiment, what he calls is a real, a true countryman.

31:20And Christopherson has said to him, suggests to George Trigg that he calls it Achilles. As Stan Perry relates, George had never heard of Achilles, but accepted the suggestion from his superior officer and had it painted on as he thought it should be spelled. And so it was called Achilla. That's just fantastic. He was absolutely mortified when he got it wrong. Oh, was he? Oh. He was absolutely mortified. And Christoph said, no, no, no, no, no. That's much better. Just leave it as it is. Yeah, it is. A-K-I-L-L-A. And there's famous footage of Achilla and the crew of a killer and you see their personalities on that tank it's quite the it's such a brilliant photograph anyway 16th of july early hours two random shells hit the rest camp in shuane one man seriously injured another sergeant burt hardy dies from his wounds i mean it's awful terrible start to the day and later on bill walton and mickey gold attend an open air church service at second army headquarters um and they stand next to general montgomery himself brilliant and immediately after that because they've basically got a freebie they've got a day off because they've had to attend this this you know representatives of the regiment kind of thing um um mickey gold says to watson con okay i've got some people to come and see him in bayou come with me and of course bayou is one of the few places that that in normandy that's avoided serious damage so when they get there it's kind of bursting with liberated life mickey gold it It turns out, I mean, this is the kind of incorrigible fellow he is, has a girlfriend there.

32:49I mean, how he's managed this, whether it's before the war or I don't know, but anyway, somewhere along the line, he's picked up this girlfriend. Fast mover. Fast mover. He takes Wharton to meet her. She lives with her parents and they're both welcomed into the house and they sit in the garden and the family in the sun drinking coffee and rum. And Wharton is encouraged to help himself to berries growing in the garden, which he helps himself to. And then they go to a bar for lunch and there's lots of war correspondents have congregated there, including Bob Cooper of the Times. And Cooper is trying it on with Mickey Gould's girlfriend, who actually is already engaged to a French school teacher.

33:29But Bill Wharton writes, but M, Mickey, is trying to talk her out of it, the rogue. They then go back and Wharton has a little siesta in the afternoon. and he wakes up to find a new NAFI, supplies have arrived safely. And NAFI is the Navy Army and Air Force Institute supplies. And basically, they supply recreational goods to the British Armed Forces, whether it be... It's like the PX that the Americans have. And Wharton takes a bottle of English beer, 70 cigarettes, a bar of soap, and a new razor blade. And he writes, I feel like a millionaire. Doesn't take much. People are easier pleased then.

34:06Yeah, well, in those circumstances, I think. But the next day, the 17th of July, the Sherwood Rangers rest period is over. They move up to Coman in the centre of the Allied line, which is 12 miles from Tuan. Heenan says he really enjoys the journey there and seeing the whole regiment lined up on the move, roaring through Normandy. It's a feeling that they've licked their wounds in their back. And he writes to his mum and dad and he says, And all the people and less mortals, such as artillery and infantry, turn out to wave you on. Everyone is stacked up with ammo and all the worldly possessions of the crew are piled on the back.

34:40See, what I love about Heenan at this point, what I love about him and these letters, he's a boy man, like so many of them. So he's 20 years old. He's about to be 21 in August. You know, he's old enough to command a troop. He's old enough to be at war. But he hasn't shed his teenage skin yet. Yeah. and his letters are filled with sort of boyish excitement bravado slight immaturity just sort of creeping through even after all he's still finding it to be an adventure isn't he which is amazing really yeah and he's still dependent on his parents and writing to them and you know dear mummy and daddy and all this kind of stuff i mean it's just amazing what's the big picture jim even the most casual listener may have heard of some of these uh upcoming events Yes, so they are taking over from the US 1st Infantry Division, which had captured Coman quite early on in the campaign, actually, on something like the 13th or 14th of June.

35:37It's right in the centre of the land, it's about 20 miles inland from the coast, and it is the crossing point. 1st Infantry Division are required for operations to break the deadlock in the American sector, and that's going to be pushed a little bit further west. and this is all part of a major two-punch assault there's going to be operation goodwood which is going to be launched on the 18th of july which is going to be to the east of con up to get the bourgobos ridge and hopefully break through and then there is going to be the american punch which is operation cobra which is scheduled for 24th of july a few days later eventually takes place a day later by this point hill 112 has finally been captured um and the british forces continue to push the front to the southwest of Caen.

36:23And it's hoped that Cobra and Goodwood will finally crack the German line. There is obviously huge amount in pressure on Monty to break out of Normandy quickly, largely because the V1s are flying over London now and causing untold damage. And the V1 launch sites are up more in sort of Belgium and Holland. And they want to get there and stop them. And also the Russians, the Soviet Union, the Red Army are attacking in operation for Granschen. an army group centre on the eastern front you know there's this this is not how it's supposed to be stuck in normandy you know there was those maps before normandy where they you know in 15 day in 17 you know by d plus whatever it was 17 they were going to be 50 miles inland and they're not you know what's the hold up what's the weight come on boys get going 17th july lots of things are happening though um and then the task of the show with rangers is to hold the line support the infantry a mile south of Coman, facing the 2nd Panzer Division, which is near a big wood called the Bois de Bussard, which is still very, very firmly held.

37:25So they've got the easy job just for the moment. And then on the 17th of July, Rommel is severely wounded when his car is shot up by Canadian Spitfires. So he's out of the pitch. He nearly dies, but doesn't. Then on the 20th of July, of course, is the assassination attempt on Hitler. The Wolf Schanz at Rastenburg, the Wolf there and they have massive effects on the uh fighting in normandy of course goodwood um you know says the loss of rommel which means a new commander is brought in that week obviously increases hitler's paranoia and commanders are less able to question decisions and have to do whatever comes out of his mouth without uh any recourse whatsoever yeah and by this sort of second third week of july 1944 the german forces are absolutely close to breaking point in normandy it might not look that way on a map but they they absolutely are they definitely definitely need to be built back to the same by this point yeah but hitler's not going to let them they've got to continue to fight for every yard and it's into this maelstrom that that goodwood is launched on the 18th of july um and it is actually largely a success despite what everyone says because it's the largest single arm of thrust attempted by the British so far in the war.

38:42The Germans have pushed back seven miles over five days. British and Canadian troops do get onto the high ground of the Bourgobos Ridge, which lies to the kind of southeast of Comte. So, you know, that is all good. There you go. Doubters, put that in your pipe and smoke it. That's all we're going to say about a good one as well. That's all we've got to say about that. That's all we're going to say? Yeah, as Forrest Gump said, that's all I have to say about that. And then COBRA is launched on the 25th of July. And these operations are in concert with one another. There aren't things happening at one end of the Normandy lodgement that aren't relevant to what's happening at the other end.

39:20It just does not work like that. Everything's part of a coordinated, bigger strategic picture. And this is a huge buildup of American forces and American strategic bombing is brought in because that's one of the things that's happened for the Normandy offensive is the strategic bombing campaign. German cities has been put on hold and those assets, those resources, US 8th Air Force and Bomber Command are operating in daylight for Montgomery and for Bradley as extra ladles of artillery, basically extra super firepower. And 72 ,000 bombs are dropped on the Panzer Lair facing the Cobra assault. The Germans cannot cope with, although they have a drop short, don't they?

40:03And it results in the highest ranking casualty in the US Army of the Second World War, Lieutenant General Louis McNair. But there we are. He's gone forward to have a look. And unfortunately, as we all know, strategic bombers, they're not that good at hitting what they're aiming at. And the Germans can't cope with this. So on the 27th of July, so two days after Cobra gets going, they're in full retreat, the Germans, on half the US, half the line. They've had it. They've had enough. And what they can't rely on is help from the other end of the line, from the British end, because the British have stuck the German armour to them.

40:37So what the Germans can't do is reorganise, adapt and bring armour to bear, of which there has been far less in the American sector anyway. There is German armour in the American sector, but just nowhere near as much. Because, you know, as we said earlier, it's the highest concentration of German panzer forces around the British end of the lodgement. Allied tactical air forces are just over there having a fantastic time of it as the Germans retreat in broad daylight. And they're caught in open air and they're smashed up. This is the breakthrough that everyone's been waiting for. It's fair to say that at the end of July, this phase of the end of July, the end game in Normandy is underway, has begun.

41:19There is now, after Goodwood, after Cobra, there is a further operation plan which is in the centre of the line. And the whole point is to just constantly hammer, you know. So the British are having, they hammer in the east, then they hammer in the west, and now they're going to hammer in the centre. And this is obviously to just completely strangle all the Germans. And so they can't be everywhere. And what do you do? You've got to take the Peter to fill the ball. And, you know, this is planned as a big surge across the whole line. And Bluecoat, it's quiet at the moment in Comont, in the centre of line, but this is exactly where the heart of Operation Bluecoat is going to take place.

41:59Yeah. On the same day, the 27th of July, that the breakthrough happens in Cobra, this is when Monty orders that drive south from Comont itself. And theoretically, this enables the British and Americans to swing south and then east in a massive joint sweep together. And it's going to be a two-core front. There's going to be 30-core on the right and eight-core on the left. And eight-core is by Dick O 'Connor, commanded by Dick O 'Connor, who had commanded the Western Desert for back in 1940 for Operation Compass, which destroyed so many of the Italians in North Africa before he was captured in April, spent the rest of the time in the next few years in an Italian prison war camp, escaped and managed to get to freedom September 1943, comes back as a corps commander here.

42:40And he was commanding 8 Corps for Operation Epsom as well. And it would involve, the idea is that there's going to be two separate thrusts, south through the hills and dense bockage of what is known as La Suisse Normande. And this is an area of constant rolling hills, little villages, narrow lanes. This is properly boccagey here. This is not like those open fields around Epsom or even around Roray, for that matter. This is super tight. It is absolutely the weakest and quietest parts of the line, and they're only expecting to face two infantry divisions and perhaps a few elements of the 10th Panzer Division.

43:19and it is due to begin on Sunday the 30th of July. A whole host of new commanders and new relations come into the picture for the Sherwood Rangers. So Brigadier Errol Prior Palmer takes over the 8th Independent Armoured Brigade. So he's new to the scene. He'll be there right through to the very end from this point on. And for the first time, the Sherwood Rangers are going to support the 43rd Wessex Division, commanded by Major General Ivo Thomas. Here he comes. Here he comes. Regarded as the most humorless man in the British Army, I believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Christopherson absolutely loathed him.

44:04He said he'd never met anyone with less of a sense of humor than him. His nickname, and it's not just the Sherwood Rangers we call him, it's his Fontoma, after the German general who's captured at El Alamein. Thomas and Pride Palmer have, you know, have scary reputations. They've been through it, though. I mean, this is the thing is Thomas's guys have really been through it. You know, the Wessex division have had a very, very difficult time in the fighting for Hill 112 in Epsom and Jupiter. It's been really difficult for them. So, you know, maybe he is of a sour disposition because his lads have been put through it.

44:42No, no, no, no, no. He's just a sour person. Trust me, he's not a very nice man. And Bluecoat is set to be the Sherwood Range's biggest operation yet. So Christopherson has given the Essex Yomery plus another squadron of crocodiles. Would that be the buffs? Because they're sets of crocodile people operating in normal time. It's very interesting because they've been figuring out what to do with crocodiles. Because at the start of the campaign, it's like, great, we've got this amazing thing that can solve all our problems. And they've been going through, you know, the shakedown we talked about, you know, once you're six weeks into the campaign, actually, here we are.

45:19What do we actually do? And a lot of these weapons are new, like reorganising the fireflies within the troops and all that sort of stuff. It's the same thing with the crocodiles. Is there all going, right, okay, what can we actually do with this bit of kit? And it doesn't solve all your problems and they need protection and they need support and they're quite vulnerable. They're very difficult to drive. The trailer, the trailer is a real pain for the crew because it doesn't have any shock absorbers or anything. Yeah, you can see why, can't you? Yeah, it's a real pain in the arse. How are they going to operate with the Wessex Division?

45:50Well, so each squadron is going to operate fairly independently, attached to a different Wessex Division infantry battalion. So this is all very much par for the course, but these are all guys they haven't worked with before. So you have to establish these new relations and get a rapport with your respective commander. And it's difficult because this has all been done in a rush because originally it was going to be scheduled for the 2nd of August, but now because of the success of Cobra they're thinking come on let's hammer it now so it's brought forward by three days so a squadron is going to start with the fifth dorsets and capture the little village of Bricassar and then the Wessex division will push on down and take Cahanniers, Jurek and Onda Fontaine and the you know the Sherwood Rangers are going to be with them all the way.

46:34Speed is absolutely crucial to this operation this is something that's made absolutely clear from Monty down to Dempsey who's a second arm British second army commander who then passes that on down to everyone else as well you know the traditional period of traditional warfare is over this is crack on and in the attack they're told all caution to be thrown overboard every risk to be taken and all troops to be told to put everything into it and the preparation of it is obviously a massive logistical feat because the entire eight corps has to be moved across from the west of con where it's been involved in operation goodwood to come on rapidly and secretly in under 40 hours.

47:11And that may sound like quite a long time, but trust me, it isn't. You know, you're talking about tens of thousands of vehicles that have got to move across, you know, war-strewn Normandy and get from one place to another. You know, this requires immense road discipline and organisation, you know, in a pre-digital age. So in an analogue age, you know, it's incredibly difficult and you have to do this effectively under the enemy's noses. But operationally, Second Army knows its onions by this point, and they pull it off. They're now given briefings, and they get to meet their people, their infantry, their support.

47:46So for A squadron specifically, they're going to clear a wood north of Bricassar and then support the Fifth Dorsets in taking Le Mesneau-Lèvreux, which is a farmstead. Then they're going to clear a small stream, which looks like an obvious defence line for any Germans. Infantry and tanks then create a bridgehead there, and then they'll push on to Cahannier with C squadron's help. That's the plan. So A squadron in the lead again. Gehaniers is expected to be heavily mined. And once again, because this is a major offensive and because strategic air forces are on a three line web to support the ground operations, RAF Bomber Command is brought in to strengthen the offensive.

48:25And our old friend Harry Heenan watches them fly over from his waiting position on the start line. And he writes, they sailed over us as we waited to go, suddenly appearing as ghostly shapes among the low scudding cloud. with bomb doors open and great bombs inside. You could see the clouds being torn apart by the great blast bombs exploding just over the hill. Yeah, well, they can afford to come in low. I mean, normally you'd expect to be bombing at kind of sort of, you know, 18, 20 ,000 feet. No, no, no, no, no. This is much lower, lower fare here. Well, and Arthur Reddish is also watching, isn't he, Jim?

48:53And he says... Yeah, yeah, he goes, We felt the earth shake. Dust and smoke rose over the target area. It was awesome and a little frightening to see such a display of explosive power. The effect on our opposite numbers could only be imagined. The start of yet another battle for the Sherwood Rangers. We're going to leave it there on the eve of the Battle for Brickhizar. Thanks, everybody, for listening. If you want to know what happens next, question of sports style, then you need to become a Patreon and you can listen to it immediately with no advertising and find out just how things pan out in the Suisse Normand for the SRY.

49:27Thanks, everybody, for listening. I have to say, James, I'm enjoying this enormously. Going back to this, looking at this, seeing it again by going you know micro on the on the way the normandy battle works out you can actually it makes you think a lot about how the battle's working on the larger scale as well because you've got to think about the logistic challenges here what the fighting's like what it's doing for people and the and you know the the british army is a learning organization as it likes to call itself these days or a learning thing you know they're learning on the job all the time, digesting those lessons, feeding them in.

50:01Even as the enemy tries to unpick those, unpick their plans. We'll see you soon. Cheerio.

50:14When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera. What they don't expect... Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. Using smart AI cameras, live US-based agents help deter intruders in under 30 seconds. Don't just record a break-in. Stop it from ever happening. Plan starting around$1 a day. Right now, get 60 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify. 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Shaq here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvana 100 % online and get it delivered to your door?

50:50Let me tell you. Your car is here, Mr. Shaq. Thank you, Mr. Carvana guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at carvana.com. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling, and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need.

51:29There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.

From the publisher

What was the Battle of Hottot? Who is Stan Perry? Why was Operation Bluecoat planned?

Join Jim and Al for Part 6, as they follow the trail of the Sherwood Rangers, Britain’s own ‘Band Of Brothers’.

Start your free trial at ⁠patreon.com/wehaveways⁠ and unlock exclusive content and more. Enjoy livestreams, early access, ad-free listening, bonus episodes, and a weekly newsletter packed with book deals and behind-the-scenes insights.

Get your ticket for We Have Ways Fest 6 here!

Get your WHW Merch here!

Visit refundclub.co.uk/whw. Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service.

A Goalhanger Production

Produced by James Regan

Editor: Charlie Rodwell

Assistant Producer: Alfie Norris

Exec Producer: Tony Pastor

Social: @WeHaveWaysPod

Social Producer: Harry Balden

Email: [email protected]

Membership Club: patreon.com/wehaveways
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More from WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

All episodes