Kokoda: MacArthur And The Generals (Part 2)

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3:34I have come as a soldier in a great crusade of personal liberty as opposed to perpetual slavery. My faith in our ultimate victory is invincible, and I bring to you tonight the unbreakable spirit of the free man's code in support of our joint corps. There can be no compromise. We shall win or we shall die. And to this end, I pledge you the full resources of all the mighty power of my country and the blood of my countrymen. That, of course, was General Douglas MacArthur on his arrival in Australia in 1942.

4:10Al Murray: And now we have Malcolm Uren, who fought at Kokoda. One Japanese soldier got so close that he grasped Private Bill Waldron's fixed bayonet to help him up the hill, evidently in the belief that he had hold of a sapling or a branch of a tree. Private Jack Currie, who was behind Waldron, coolly rested his Bren gun on Waldron's head and gave the visitor a burst. Another raiding Japanese crept up close to our lines and whispered in English, Where are you, digger? Lance Corporal Alex Severus answered with studied politeness, Here I am, and fired point blank to prove it. Welcome to We Have Ways to Make You Talk with me, Al Murray, and James Holland, and a many Australian accent for part two of our story of the Battles of the Kokoda Trail.

4:54Al Murray: Or track, take your pick. Boy, I want to read that book. I want to read Malcolm Urien. That sounds great. Well, and you know what? The thing is, looking through all of the Kokoda histories, there are so many stories like this. There are, he opened fire with his Tommy gun at four yards. There are so many of these stories of this absolute cheek by jowl, close encounter fighting in the jungle in Papua. And it's absolutely brutal, the whole thing. And imagine someone resting a Bren gun on your head to shoot the Japanese soldier. I mean, Jesus. Thanks, mate. Unbelievable. It's about mateship. It's about mateship.

5:40Al Murray: It's about mateship. Mateship. Come on, Jim. Mateship. Do it. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship, mate. Yeah, you chocko. Yeah, koala, mate. We looked in the previous episode at PAPA itself, how it came into Australian hands, the state of the colony. Yes. We outlined kind of relations with the Wontok there, the people living there. And then we looked at Australia in the interwar years and the state of the second AIF and the Australian militia, the two competing or not competing, really, the two elements that the Australian government has to play with when war comes. Yes.

6:22Al Murray: There's no conscription. volunteer forces the militia of course can't leave australia to fight there to there to defend australia and it's worth putting in brackets here papa is part of australia yes right so should the australians find themselves shorthanded and need to defend papua then you can be sent as a member of the militia it's the militia you're going to turn to isn't it is the militia can turn to particularly you know and they can go with their light shoulders yeah exactly their choco vibes Exactly. They're koala vibes. Not to be exported or shot at. But the interesting thing is, by the sort of back end of 1942, very end of 1942, because the 6th Australian Division get withdrawn from North Africa after the Battle of Alamein, they've actually got a little bit of experience there because they were involved in the advance to Benghazi.

7:10They're kind of, you know, they're there in Crusader, for example, in the back end of 1941. they're there that they've been involved in the in the battle of crete yeah heracleion for example they're there and um the thymnon that's where most of the aussies are aren't they and in greece of course before that and and they play as we said in that first episode you know a pivotal pivotal role in the battle of alamein which is a sort of again a sort of a key moment in the development of the aif the australian imperial absolutely but of course not only does it mean that the junior officers and ncos and and other ranks are getting getting much needed battle experience so too the commanders and they're starting to kind of you know separate the kind of the wheat from the chaff and and all the rest of it and and work out who's who's any good and who isn't so we're going to look at some of these characters aren't we yeah in in the next bit and and we're going to start with the amazing thomas blamey the amazing thomas arthur blamey the the dominant figure of

8:12Al Murray: the australian war effort in the second world war australia's only ever field marshal um he's promoted field marshal on his deathbed um uh after the war an extraordinary character and i think doesn't make old bones i think it's fair to say no but but was never on track to i think that's also fair to say he's born in 1884 uh at lake albert and wogga wogga in new south wales to a cornish farmer and cattle drover from new quay and his dad his dad's you know emigrated has had several jobs he's the seventh of 10 kids and it's a hard to grab all life and you know when we look to ike eisenhower and people like i can people like omar bradley and the sort of hard knock life they come from you know i think blamey is entirely comparable with with with them possibly even he's possibly even from a even lower station and he's very interesting he's very bright and hard hard working and there's amazing stories when he's 13 he rides up the murray river to take a message to his dad on horseback droves cattle the following year when he's 14 hundreds of miles he's a very very you know he's your aussie outdoorsman hard scrabble life he's athletic um loves his swimming not that you'd know it to listen to him no not that you know no no exactly um this is the extraordinary thing he invents himself hello my name is thomas play me my the the men of the IIF we have done terribly well and he he starts teaching when he's 15 and in and uh gets out um via teaching and goes to western Australia to Fremantle where he starts teaching and gets involved with the cadets and in 1906 there's a there's a commission to join the there's 12 places to join the Australian army staff and he um comes third out of 12 and his brother at the time says he's completely obsessed with this exam and he's thrown himself into it completely but there's no place for him in western australia because it's already been granted and the people who apply in victoria fail so blame he says well i'll take the victorian place i'll move what what why not right and and the army is convinced because he's because he's so forceful in his application he's really talented um and clearly applied as a person so he gets the job And he joins the, having joined the staff, he then joins the Australian military forces in 1910.

10:37Al Murray: And he's working at the war office in London when the war breaks out in 1914. Again, that little, that connection. It's, you know, if you want to get on in the military or if you want to get on in politics or whatever, or the law, civil service life, you've got to do a stint in the mother country. Exactly, exactly. And one colleague at the time describes him as, you know, because Gandhi was a lawyer in London. This is what you do. You go to the Imperial Centre. and credentialise yourself. So one colleague at the time describes him as follows. Short of stature, rugged in appearance, it took some little time to discover that behind that broad forehead there was well-seated and unusual brain, and that the square jaw denoted not obstinacy and lack of tat, but quiet resolution and a calm and definite power of expression.

11:22Al Murray: So he's a tough little fellow. His military record and his experience are good. He knows the English and he's most intelligent. We cannot say how this war will go. but it will not be a short or easy one. So our commander must not only take his place with our other commanders, he must also deal with politicians here at home. What I like about Blamey is that he realises that democratic governments do not have unlimited powers. They can only go as far and as fast as public opinion will allow them. In short, his life has been such that he is a man of the world, a politician. We are all lucky to have Blamey.

11:56There you are. So, so far, all go good, right? Yeah, exactly.

12:01Al Murray: And he becomes General Monash's chief of staff during the war. And he's one of the people that gets Monash as far as he does, because he's an absolutely brilliant staff man and a brilliant politician. He is absolutely fantastic at dealing with personalities, dealing with people and balancing priorities and so on. It is amazing, isn't it? When you think about his background, how he's developed this. It's a combination, isn't it, of innate understanding of other people. Yeah. Combined with experience and combined with that kind of, okay, what do I need to do here? And kind of working it out and thinking, right, to get from A to B, I need to do X, Y, and Z.

12:40And just working it out and doing it. I mean, it's amazing, really.

12:44Al Murray: Yeah, and an appetite, an incredible appetite for hard work. There's no arguing. And we will see you blame these flaws. Yep, and drive. This is a man who worked incredibly hard, which also meant he played hard. But the point is, is he was absolutely focused and an incredible appetite for hard work and getting stuck in. And, you know, that's how he basically runs the Australian army staff during the First World War, by being harder working than anyone else. And he's, you know, he's been involved or featured in most Australian operations in the First World War. But in September 1925, he quits the army.

13:19Al Murray: And of course, as we said in the previous episode, the army's being sort of shrunk and hollowed, shrunk down and hollowed out. He leaves the army to become the chief commissioner of Victoria Police Force. And he stays in this role for 11 years. His tenure is marked by, he's a strong progressive administration. He's able to push through the government's agenda. He's very tough on the unions, actually, and sort of is a union buster with the police force. Yes. And he also introduces all sorts of interesting things, doesn't he? So he introduces police dogs, for example. That's right. And he introduces police cars at a time where, you know, cars aren't really doing anything.

13:54And he also introduces two-way radios into the police force, which is, you know, this is all new stuff in the 1920s. Yeah. And he brings in police women. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, he's absolutely a progressive. But. But. But. But he also has scandals.

14:11Al Murray: Yes. The whiff of corruption is never far from Tab, as he's known, T-A-B by some. There's the Badge 80 Affair. Now. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, it's so good. When I first read about this, I thought, well, Monty nearly lost his job, basically, for when he hired out a football pitch and made some money for the benevolent fund for his brigade from a football pitch. This is absolutely amazing. So, 11.30pm on the 21st of October 1925, three plainclothes cops from the licensing police. And licensing is a big, big thing in Australia at this time. Yes. They're sort of doing prohibition light in Australia at this point.

14:48Al Murray: they raid a place called belgrave which is a brothel in bell street fitzroy where it's believed alcohol was being sold illegally jim yes get this in the brothel they find a man and a woman in the state of undress in a bedroom on the premises i mean what kind of brothel is this and the man allegedly states that's all right boys i'm a plain clothes constable here is my badge and the The problem is, is this badge 80 is the badge registered to blame me. What? Yeah, I know. He claims to have lost it. The badge later miraculously reappears in his locker. And somehow, and this is, I think, a mark of his political talent and his sort of incredible Teflon nature.

15:32Al Murray: He rides out the enormous scandal that follows. He scotches the investigation. He gets an old army friend to say it was him. Yes. And he said, doesn't he say, oh, I lent my key to someone earlier on and they never quite gave it back. Yeah, yeah. And an independent witness goes, oh, the person we saw in the brothel wasn't blaming. Yeah, exactly. He might have been innocent. He might have been. He might have been, but he might not. And so a reader at the Melbourne Age newspaper writes to the paper and says, have certain police officers conspired to hide and conceal a guilty man? Or have they managed to temper with police reports and witnesses and try to prevent the truth from being disclosed and ban to bamboozle the public?

16:15Al Murray: And, you know, those are questions worth asking. It's outrageous. But by 1925, by the end of the year, press have lost interest. But he's created a reputation for himself he can't really shake, which is women and booze. And one of the things Blamey does, so pubs have to shut at six in Australia. because everyone was getting mullered all the time because everyone's getting well yeah and then you know and it's a sort of prohibition like they're trying to there's a sort of temperance movement like in all sorts of places and what what blamey does is he will drink in your hotel so they have to stay open because the chief of police is drinking the hotel so they then carry on serving drinks so blamey was getting most likely getting backhanders for going drinking in these hotels or which are which where people drink the pubs right and the place would stay open and get the custom but and they have be protected by the police for this his presence on their premises so while he's super progressive he also thinks that i work hard i deserve to play hard there there should be fruits of my labor privileges for me and he carries on in this vein, but he's finally forced to resign in 1936 after an extremely controversial incident where an associate of blame is that copper is shot whilst waiting in his car for an informant.

17:36Al Murray: And he has two high society ladies in the car with him. He's on his way to some ball and he's shot three times. And Blamey claims that the guy had shot himself three times. Yes. In an encounter with an informant. Right? What? it's a very it's a very hard you know no one believes it no one believes it you know he's you know someone going to pick up a bribe for blamey or something a bad man anyway um this is too much even for the victorian establishment and he has to go and uh you know the commission set up at the time finds that his statements are not in accordance with the truth and he's got a bad relationship incendiary relationship with the press he's got a penchant for alcohol and women he's indiscreet and he makes enemies easily and also he's politically active and i think this is quite interesting he's involved with the league of national security the lns also known as the white army which is a far-right paramilitary organization opposing the supposed threat of communism especially during the depression and there's lots of ex-servicemen john we're not saying it's an australian fricor but um you know it's kind of you know it's getting on for it yeah exactly and And he's one of the many high ranking soldiers involved.

18:50Al Murray: Shades, shades of. Yeah, he's probably in charge, possibly. But the interesting thing is in all this time, Blamey has been out of the army and he's not been involved in policymaking. He's not entangled with the state of the interwar, of the army in the interwar years. So he's not part of the baggage that needs to be dealt with. No, no. which keeps him clear of some of the political howlers it does yeah yes it absolutely does but it also because he's out of his police job everyone everyone knows you know he's he's been indiscreet and and being a bit dodgy but they also know that he's incredibly competent and when you're about to go to war or you're going to war it's competent people that you need and and other blemishes can be swept under the carpet because your your skill sets are so good that they're not to be squandered yeah and so in 1938 he's appointed chairman of commonwealth's manpower committee and controller general of recruiting so he is basically mr recruitment yeah and when war breaks out blame he is given command of the sixth division yeah which is the first one that's going to be sent overseas this is a division as in crete and greece and alamein and all the rest of it yeah and he is backed by pm robert menzies and as well as other key cabinet members so this is controversial as many, you know, obviously within the staff corps feel that the job should go to someone more senior without the kind of, you know, scandals that have bedecked, you know, that have dogged his career.

20:27But he's promoted to Lieutenant General in October 1939 and competently raises the second Australian Imperial force, which just goes to underline his unbelievable skill at staff work and command.

20:41Al Murray: Well, and Menzies says of him, we didn't want a choir boy. and then he isn't a choir boy. No. So, you know. No, he certainly isn't. So he demonstrates his political and military aptitude pretty quickly, doesn't he? He draws up a charter for the AIF that ensures the right to direct communications with the Australian government. It forbids elements of the AIF from being removed without explicit permission from him. Yeah. All essential safeguards against British interference in Australian military affairs. So there's a, you know, a bit of a shutter coming down. Yeah. You know, and this is all very sensible stuff, isn't it?

21:17Al Murray: Yeah, absolutely. And it means when Sixtyv go to the North African theatre, he is able to say to the British, no, you're not deploying us there. You're not doing this. You're not doing that. And able to kick up considerable political fuss so that the Australian government doesn't feel powerless. They don't just feel like they're puppets, which is the complaint after all that comes out of Gallipoli. And it's a really, really canny piece of politics. Really, really smart. And so, you know, because that's Blamey's talent. He may have a taste for hookers and booze, but he's really, really good at the political side of things.

21:55Al Murray: Then there's Sidney Rowell, who's younger than Blamey. Who we mentioned in the last episode, didn't we? We had a quote from him. That's right. And he's from Adelaide. He was born in December 1894 in Adelaide. And the official historian describes Rowell as clear and incisive in thought, sensitive in feeling, franken outspoken in his approach to men and to problems. And he's served at Gallipoli as a troop and squadron commander. He's invalided out of Gallipoli and goes back to Australia in 1916. And he can't go back to France for the rest of the war. So basically, he's one of these people who stayed in after the war.

22:29Al Murray: He's not one of the 72 officers who were laid off. He goes to the army headquarters in 1932. And he goes to England in 1935 at the Imperial Defence College. So, you know, he's doing the thing. He's going to the Imperial Centre. He's known as Cid, and he's considered really as one of the most competent, hardworking staff officers in all the army. And Blamey recognises this and chooses him as chief of staff when he's raising the second AIF. And he promotes him to brigadier general staff once 7th Division is raised. So Raoul is a key component of the new division that we're going to see fight at Kokoda.

23:10Al Murray: Then you have Edmund Ned Herring. Yes, he's born in September 1892, isn't he? And he's another brain box. He's a Rhodes Scholar. So he's come over to Oxford in 1912. He serves in the Officers' Training Corps at Oxford. And then during the First World War, he's in the Royal Field Artillery, serves in France and also in Macedonia. Right. Becomes a successful lawyer in the interwar years. He's a KC by 1936, a King's Council. and he also keeps up military practices in this during this time he's a legal officer of the cavalry division in 1922 and commander of an artillery battery in 1923 he's also like blamey he's a little bit right of center he's a member of the white army um and has just to put it mildly and he has a great professional relationship with with blamey they go on really really well in their white army i mean they're not quite kind of you know cleacock's can hoods are they but it's it's it's kind of it's on its way there yeah it's on its way there yeah yeah yeah yeah so he you know he's known he's clever he's smart he's urbane all those things well it's interesting because blamey really hates the nazi antisemitism he can't bear it no it's one of his markers for why the nazis are bad is antisemitism so he's he might be a member of the right well but he might be a member of the white army blamey but you know there's lines he won't cross um in in terms of his sort of right-wing politics and anti-semitism is one of them um but yeah herring becomes cra commander of artillery for sixth division and then when blamey leaves sixth division in 941 he makes um herring his uh successor to command six div yep then there's arthur allen who's born in sydney in 1894 he's a civilian accountant up up until the outbreak of war he's known as tubby short and stout and he's an ec got an excellent record as a civilian soldier having been a platoon commander in different battalions during the first war.

25:00Al Murray: Blamey gives him commander 6th when the war breaks out. And 6th Division, their first battle is Bardia in January 1941. And Alan is spearheading this operation. And Blamey promotes him to Major General after the Greek campaign. And then he gets given commander 7th Division in June 1941 during their fighting in Syria. So they've been busy in Syria. Yes. You have Cyril Clowes, who's from Queensland in 1892, again a Gallipoli veteran and he's posted to Tasmania when the war begins and he's calm, quiet, professional disposition and he's artillery commander of 1st Australian Corps when it's formed in 1940.

25:36Then there's George Vasey, he's from Melbourne, he's a professional soldier, fights in France for the most part in the First World War and at the outbreak in 1939 he's appointed assistant, adjutant and then quartermaster general, a general staff officer in the 6th Division. So he's a real staff man but he is promoted to the commanding officer 19th brigade in march 1941 and he's known throughout the army as bloody george and the official history describes him as highly strong frostful hard-working vesey concealed a deep emotional even sentimental nature behind a mask of laconic and blunt speech making it crystal clear that a particular position had to be held vesey told his commanders here you bloody well are and here you bloody well stay and if any bloody germans get between you and your post on the next turn your bloody brin around and shoot him up the ass that's the kind of person george fazey is he's highly strong and forceful in his

26:32Al Murray: language here you bloody well are and here you bloody well stay i mean you know i mean that feels like t-shirt material doesn't it well i just i just wanted you to say it first james yes

26:49Al Murray: yeah but the thing is come greece blamey's relationship with some of these men starts to fall apart i mean because they're on an immense pressure of course and on the 15th to the 18th of april 1941 there's the battle of pinius gorge tempe gorge and the anzac corps are withdrawing because the germans are pressing hard through central greece and on the 16th of april the german breakthrough imminent Raoul makes a change to the role of the 16th brigade immediately while Blamey is still asleep because he's got to make a decision and he's furious when he wakes up but then reluctantly agrees and they have another uh tiff on the 18th of April when Raoul suggests either he or Blamey visits the forward commanders um Mackay and Freiburg to assess the situation of more German attacks and Blamey initially refuses to go and then bounds Raoul from going to before relenting in letting Raoul go so there's proper beef between Blamey and Raoul yes after this sounds like a few toys are being thrown out of prams there yeah isn't it yeah well quite right and this exemplifies how Blamey's intransigence and sort of stubbornness can often jeopardize military strategy he also um uh when he leaves Greece there's one last plane on the aircraft one last seat on the aircraft leave Greece and Blamey gives it to his son and that is seen that is seen as extremely bad form by those in the know.

28:15But that's the sort of thing you do when you're stitching up someone who's been shot by the police and blaming them for shooting themselves three times. Exactly, exactly. There's a touch of the rogue, isn't there?

28:25Al Murray: Yeah, exactly. Questions, as a result, come in about his suitability, actual suitability for operational command. He might be a brilliant organiser. He might be brilliant at raising an army. He might be brilliant at selecting the officers. But is he actually any good... But is he a man? Yeah, in the clinch. and obviously the stakes are going to be much higher in papua because papua is 150 miles from australia and there's also the business of the the syrian campaign yes so seventh div a part of this um uh campaign a british plan to invade syria to prevent a german invasion and a subsequent advance on the suiz canal and of course syria and lebanon but of course syria means attacking the uh this is vichy french exactly so this is you've got you've got free french fighting vichy french axis back french and you've got australians predominantly and new zealanders i think if i remember rightly also involved in this this this fight yeah in syria and you know let the good times roll we're fighting the french again um uh five intense weeks of fighting which which are the 21st and 25th brigades of australian 7th division and the french thrown the towel on the 12th of july 1941 so 7th div do have a successful campaign under their belt another example of the french not having a problem surrendering, by the way.

29:36I'll just say that point.

29:37Al Murray: Yeah, exactly. They can do it. They can do it. They can do it to put them into it. Yeah. If asked nicely. And this campaign means that Seventh Div have got mountain fighting experience, which is going to come in handy in the Owen Stanley range. And also there's a very, very key character who will emerge in later episodes, a fellow called Arnold Potts. Arnold Potts, as we will see, is one of the great, great heroes of the Kokoda campaign. and it's not to give too much away. He migrates to Australia from the Isle of Man in 1904 when he's a kid, fights at Gallipoli, then the Western Front where he's been badly injured by a sniper.

30:14Al Murray: And after his injuries, classed as 20 % disabled. But when the war starts, he joins the 2nd 16th Battalion when it's formed in May 1940. And he's the 2IC and he's a brilliant trainer and he's a great judge of character. And after Syria, he's given the battalion to command, the 2nd 16th, and he's a soldier's soldier. Everyone loves him. Incredibly brave, a brilliant leader. And he's given the command of 21st Brigade in July 1942, just in the nick of time for the emergency in Kokoda in Papua. Let's take a break and then we'll come to how well prepared the Australians are for war in Papua. Spoiler, not very.

30:54Al Murray: See you in a tick.

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32:47Al Murray: welcome back to we have ways to make you talk with me al marie and james holland in his slouch hat um fetching james it's a good look thank you but you don't have you don't have the side turned up isn't that the that you have to have one side turned up don't you well they just they tended to kind of sort of not bother after a while oh look at that it's such a great look oh now we're talking oh look at that it's okay yeah but i just don't understand why you would have the side up i don't know because it looks great you look dashing no it looks better down anyway anyway anyway Anyway, where were we?

33:23We were on prep for Papua New Guinea. Yeah. Spoiler alert, not much. Yeah, yeah.

33:28Al Murray: Yes. Yeah, so Australia's wartime presence in Papua, it's deeply flawed, isn't it, and tragic from the beginning. And Australia's reckoning with the possibility of war with Japan throughout 1941 as the storm clouds are clichéing their way across the Pacific and all the rest of it. But home defence is the first issue. But on the other hand, you know, Papua New Guinea kind of sort of is home, isn't it? That's the whole point. Anyway, at this point, it only consists of the 8th Division of the AIF and the militia, the Chocos. And there are massive deficiencies here in strength, training, leadership, and equipment, because basically, you know, it's the 6th, 7th, and 9th Divisions in the Middle East getting the priority at this point.

34:10Yeah. And part of the preliminary actions in 1941 is raising a militia battalion to garrison Port Moresby, which for those of you who listened to the first episode will remember is that's the that's the capital of Papua New Guinea this is the kind of the colonial base and it's on the southern coast of PNG and this project is given to the 49th battalion from Queensland and in event of a war a war coming to Papua New Guinea it has to be defended because obviously if the Japanese take posmorbid they could easily then use that as a launch base to attack the north coast of australia yeah and that's why suddenly patmy new guinea is kind of on the radar but but as we were saying again in that last episode you know japan is thousands of miles away and haven't they got other fish to fry and even if they do have their expansionist tendencies blah blah blah blah blah and they're immersed in china why are they going to come all the way down here yeah well yeah it doesn't make any sense well it doesn't to the australian government anyway so this defensive battalion mainly comprising of tropical service volunteers leaves prisbill on 15th of march 1941 but but the moment they get there it's a logistical and organizational absolute shocker because you know there's nothing you know there aren't enough mess tins or enough plates or mosquito nets there's hardly any waterproof sheets they are catastrophically underprepared aren't they they basically got their kind of tropical uniforms and that is literally it yeah yeah and a few rifles but they haven't got they just haven't got the equipment you need for going into a tropical rainforest where it's raining the whole time there's lots of mozzies and yeah all sorts of other horrors yeah yeah that's a that's the truth and um the chief of the general staff visits the battalion in july describes it as quite the worst battalion in australia unbelievable involved anyway in late 1941 the decision is made to increase port moorsby from garrison to brigade strength well well done so the 53rd battalion from new south wales and the 39th battalion victoria also brought in yeah um but that's still not an awful lot no and it is the truth of it and the

36:19Al Murray: the 53rd um uh from new south wales is particularly chaotic sergeant keith irwin of the 53rd recalls that soldiers were mainly only 18 years old hadn't been told where they were going and what they were doing and had no chance to tell families they were leaving most never touched a rifle and you actually have a situation where the officers on the ship are writing to the family saying your son has gone to port moorsby he's gone off to defend papua to defend australian port moorsby and and people literally not knowing where their where their relatives had gone where the sons had gone it's it's incredible and we talked in the previous episode about the structure of a battalion about how it works what the what you know on the british model the four companies the headquarters company that yeah they're denied all of this the structure the training the expertise and the confidence that's baked into the second AIF into the thing that that better or worse blamey has built and this means there's great bitterness and anger within the battalion that will grow and and feed into the into the campaign it is breathtakingly incompetent isn't it yeah yeah I mean really I mean come on guys well and it's this thing isn't it you're prepared for one crisis but you're not got a second possible one on the list, even though, you know, hostilities with Japan are plainly on their way.

37:34You've got to look after the guys you're commanding, haven't you? You've got to, you know, I mean, pastoral care, even in its most basic form, is still important.

37:41Al Murray: Of course, of course. But it just shows the cupboard's bare. All the clever people who know how to do this are fighting in Greece. You know, all of Blamey's team are off away, aren't they? That's the problem. Yeah, yeah. And had Blamey stayed home and been in charge of this, maybe it would have turned out. but he's insisted on inserting himself into operational matters, as we've seen with mixed results. So the 53rd arrive in Port Moresby on the 3rd of January 1942, alongside the 39th Battalion, who are less chaotic, but it's still not ideal. And then, of course, this is in the middle of the great collapses in the Pacific Theatre, in this Eastern Theatre.

38:20Al Murray: Jim, do you want to do the list of ignominy? Well, it's just worth just reminding people. So we've got Pearl Harbor on the 7th December 1941. Then we've got the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Repulse on the 10th December. Hong Kong falls on the 26th December. Britain withdraws from Malaya into Singapore, 31st December. Japanese attack, Rabal, on the 23rd January. Ambon is attacked a week later. Singapore falls on the 15th February. Yeah. It's the biggest capitulation of British military history. I know this! 130 ,000 soldiers captured 14 ,974 of them Australian and of course suddenly the fall of Singapore which is the big bastion of Australian defence suddenly makes Australia very very vulnerable indeed and the first air raid on Port Moresby comes on the 3rd of February I mean this is all happening in super quick time that's the point and the first mainland bombing of Australia in Darwin is on the 19th of February God bloody hell Java is attacked on the 20th of February so the Japanese are here they're streaming over the sky they're dropping bombs you know what the heck how has this happened and of course by this point our key characters that we outlined earlier on they're all in new roles so Raoul is Deputy Chief of the General Staff and a Major General George Vasey the Heidi Strong one bloody george their bloody brain gun and shoot people up the hours yeah bloody george he's the chief of the staff of of the goc of the general officer commanding of home forces and close is a major general and commander of first division so they're back in australia basically yeah but also at this critical time there are tensions between australia and britain and the u.s of course there are because everyone's feeling scratchy and tetchy because everything's going so horribly wrong yeah and the British ask for the two AIF divisions in the Middle East to be transferred to the Far East and Blamey chooses the 6th and the 7th because he's allowed to decide because that's what he had baked into the agreement with the British.

40:28Al Murray: His political stroke of genius is that Australia gets to decide what to do with its soldiers in relation to the British and the Australian Prime Minister John Curtin who's in by now, Menzies is gone. He's a hard drinker. He's a man who lives a life of great stress. He wants convoys to go to Australia, to come back to Australia. But Churchill wants to go to Burma. And Blamey agrees with Curtin. But FDR voices his support for Churchill's position. And so in a cable to Curtin on the 20th of February, he says, While I realise the Jabs are moving rapidly, I cannot believe that in view of your geographical position and the forces on their way to you or operating in your neighbourhood, your vital centres are in imminent danger.

41:15Yeah. Well, I think FDL's called that one wrong.

41:17Al Murray: Well, the core politics of being an Australian government, right? You've got to defend Australia. You always have to defend the homeland first. You just do. I know, I know. I'm trying to tell Andy Burnham this at the moment. The Australian government would fall. Yes. After more back and forth, Churchill unilaterally orders the Australian convoy to divert to Burma instead of Australia, which of course he can't really do. I shall be diverting them. To Burma, let's say. They shall proceed forthwith in their maritime capacity. To the Arakan. To the Arakan, wherefore they shall be deployed forthwith in that battle thereof.

42:01Al Murray: He's basically... He's in the room. He's in the room. But Churchill actually can't do this. No, he can't. And it also overlooks that the Australians, Australians have done very well in Greece, Crete, Syria to Brooklyn. They've worked bloody hard. And Curtin writes back to Churchill. And this is some proper political head-butting, isn't there? And he says, Jim, By diverting the convoy, you have established a physical situation which adds to the dangers of the convoy and the responsibility for the consequences of such. Diversion rests with you. in the circumstances it is quite impossible to reverse a decision which we made with the utmost care and which we have affirmed and reaffirmed yeah do you think that was about right all right i'll take it all right they will all had a radio voice wouldn't they but but curtain wins yeah the convoys are turned back towards australia and they get to australia in march but more importantly and and we're about and this is how we're going to end up with another key figure the philippines are looking very vulnerable to Japanese capture.

43:06Al Murray: And Douglas MacArthur now features that. Jim, tell us about Douglas MacArthur. Well, I mean, we've done quite a lot on him, but just let's have a recap. For those who haven't listened to earlier episodes where we've been talking about him, he's born in January 1880 in Arkansas. His father, Arthur MacArthur, is a soldier fought in the American Civil War and then posted to the Philippines for the Spanish-American War in 1898. He's a brigadier general. or he goes on to become military governor of the Philippines. And actually, Arthur MacArthur and Douglas MacArthur end up being in the Philippines together, you know, with Douglas working underneath his father.

43:43And he's the embodiment of American involvement in that country. I mean, incredibly brutal to start off with, and then very placatory and kind of, you know, once they get over the kind of the war bit in the early years of the 20th century, it all kind of sort of beds down a little bit. Anyway, for Douglas, you know, the military influence is there from early childhood. it's absolutely his destiny and um he oversees the uh he he plays a very very key part in the first world war developed his brave inspiring haughty reputation during the first world war he serves on the western front as the chief of staff to the 42nd division the rainbow division um and actually becomes one of them one of america's highest decorated soldiers during first world war yeah he has a brief interwar stint in the philippines in the early 1920s he's promoted to major general then he's posted home returns and becomes at 45 the youngest general in the uh in the u.s army and he then becomes in 1930 he becomes the chief of staff so he's the most senior military figure yeah um in the u.s armed forces retires and retires to the philippines where they're kind of transitioning they are basically a commonwealth country and they're transitioning to full independence and uh quazon who's the uh the president of of the philippines asks him to run the Filipino military and promotes him to field marshal.

45:03So he does. And at the same time, FDR also offers him the role of inaugural high commissioner of the Philippines. He actually goes with the head of the military. Yeah. Which means he has to resign from the US Army's active list. But he takes Eisenhower as one of his sort of key staff officers.

45:22Al Murray: Yeah. Fascinating, isn't it? Yeah. anyway you know he's preparing for war against japan during all this time anticipating lots of jungle and rainforest terrain and guerrilla warfare and so on funding is obviously a big issue in the philippines and um in 1937 fdr just unilaterally cancels mcafa's assignment as advisor to the philippine army and says he wants him to come back into the u.s so mcafa resigns from the u.s army completely the philippine army is poorly funded equipped lacks motivation heisenhower is one of those sort of trying to kind of make sense of it all gets gets frustrated and leaves in late 1939 and post the oil embargo which the americans impose on japan in the summer of 1941 fdr reinstates macarfer onto the active list and gives him command of all u.s forces in the far east so you know it's a big job yeah and and this is why he is the commander in chief of u.s forces and indeed filipino forces in 1941 at the time of pearl harbor when the moment comes yeah so japanese strike clarkfield on the island of luzon which is also the uh the this is one of the northern main one of the main northern islands which is where manila is manila bay and all the rest of it the Bataan Peninsula, Ireland of Corregidor, is in the Bay of Manila as well.

46:41And Clark Field, this airfield, is attacked nine hours after striking Pearl Harbor. And Edward Ramsey, who is a US Army officer in the Philippines, recalls,

46:50Al Murray: I went to the officer's club and had a drink with the Chief of Intelligence for General Wainwright. Lieutenant, are you religious? And I said, no, sir, not particularly. Well, he said, I think you better give your soul to God because your ass belongs to the Japanese. Phew, fighting talk. Anyway, The Japanese do land on the Philippines on the 22nd of December on Lingawan Bay, which is in the northern part of the island of Luzon, which coincidentally is exactly where the Americans re-invade in January 1945. And within 48 hours, the Philippine army is absolutely smashed. They get a shellacking. And MacArthur is forced to pull back through the Bataan Peninsula, which sort of hangs down on the western side of Luzon, and direct the combat from Corregidor Island.

47:31you know manila is abandoned which is just a terrible thing for mccarver because he loves manila yeah sees it as that you know it is very much the pearl of the orient and all the rest of it he lives in the uh in the manila hotel doesn't he and the situation worsened throughout january and and there's criticism of mccarver growing from washington and eventually fdr orders in march he orders mccarver to leave the post and assume command of all american troops in australia and he leaves very early on um on the second week of of march something on length of march he flies out he leaves in a boat and then flies out to australia and he's absolutely mortified by this doesn't want to leave and announces that he will be back yeah and leaves it to general wainwright to to complete that kind of defeat basically well he also takes half a million dollars with him

48:18Al Murray: from the philippine government as as his uh sort of uh severance pay which i think is quite interesting yeah it's quite punchy isn't it i suppose you know he's only going to go to the japanese otherwise so he might yeah yeah but yeah on the 18th of march mccarfer announces as as a supreme commander of the southwest pacific area and he's greeted as a hero in australia he's awarded the medal of honor in canberra um announced by by rusevelt in the time-honored fashion of when in defeats hand out the gongs and um the point uh at this moment is that most american supplies and personnel will not be arriving until may so it'll be aussie service people who are carrying the burden until that time i mean it's only a couple of months but but even so you know he comes there as supreme commander but he's commanding of not very much is the truth of it yep on the 19th of april mccarfer announces his staff which doesn't contain a single australian soldier so you know inter-service collaboration international collaboration forget it and curtain doesn't challenge us at all this is the prime minister of of australia well which is fascinating isn't it because because blamey made sure that in collaborate in work working with the british that the australian government had representation and could do and could call call the shots regarding its own deployment and here they've completely they've completely thrown seeded that thrown in the towel yeah but but blame he's not around to challenge this is he no exactly but there's a really interesting thing at work here isn't it macarthur's macarthur's on his ass he's desperate and the yet the australians are on their ass and they're desperate so they they give him what he wants when actually he can't offer them anything yet yeah and it's a really fascinating moment politically because the australians could have i'm sure could have said by the way you know you're going to have to, you know, any deployment has got to be run by the government.

50:14Al Murray: And they don't because they're so desperate. No, it's absolutely amazing. But they're just rolling over, aren't they? And it's bizarre, really. Yeah. Shurping a spine, mate. Yeah. Well, the British have let them down. Maybe the government's just a bunch of chocos. It could be that, Jim. They're just two koalas. Yeah, they're just chocos. Anyway, so eight of the 11 men that MacArthur chooses to be on his immediate stage, staff at supreme commander um have been brought off the philippines by him and they're known as the baton gang and they're vastly less experienced than a number of australian options so it really is a bad bad move from the australian point of view and it's sort of overbearing from mccarfer you kind of expect that from mccarfer he's an overbearing character he can yeah you know he's a kind of narcissistic my way or the highway type yeah uh um but but you know i would say the australians do have quite a few aces up their sleeves and a bit of bargaining power and they They don't exercise it.

51:12Yeah. And they also have to contend with MacArthur kind of telling them what to do and being a key advisor on the Australian government's military strategy. So, you know, it's kind of one-way traffic, basically. Yeah. But around that time, the Australian army is also being rapidly restructured. So key characters are being promoted. So we've already been into this a little bit, haven't we? You know, Raoul is Lieutenant General, Commander of First Corps of the First Army.

51:34Al Murray: Well, and the collision here is that Blamey gets back to Australia on the 23rd of March, and he's appointed commander-in-chief of Australian military forces. So he's in charge of the army, home and abroad. But MacArthur is also a key advisor on Australian government military strategy. They are going to run into each other regardless because their roles overlap. And Blamey, who's been so sort of bullish about making sure that he gets to decide what the Australian army do, is now having to deal with this ally who's also very forthright, making policy decisions. um it's it's a tough one but all the all the boys that have been over in the middle east and greece and the mediterranean they're now all the they're now running the show so you've got as we mentioned earlier on you've got rowley's now uh commander of the first corps first army you've got uh bloody george fazey he's deputy chief of general staff herring ned herring is commander of the northern territory force and claus is commander of the first division in the second army so you know that you've got the experienced guys back at least so so things are starting to shift aren't they yeah yeah exactly and in the nick of time because the japanese are pushing they're doing well in burma they've done big raids over the solemn islands the americans are about to capitulate in corregidor um and the what the what the japanese want to do is cut or weaken the allied line of communication between the us and australia and and they need to focus on what's an obvious base for possible allied counter-offensives in other words port Moresby.

53:03Al Murray: So in April, Japanese high command ordered a seizure of Port Moresby, 150 miles from Australia. And the thing is, is the Americans have been working successfully on decoding the Japanese fleet code J25B. And this intelligence, which of course is known as Ultra after 1944, manages to intercept a Japanese fleet bound for Port Moresby. And so they do battle. And the The Americans do badly in this battle, but do enough to turn the Japanese invasion back. The Port Moresby invasion does not happen. Yes. Then you have the Battle of Midway, 4th or 6th of June, a massive Allied success, sinking, crippling of four Japanese aircraft carriers.

53:47Al Murray: So the Australians, you know, are in that regard indebted to the Americans. Yeah. They're under less threat than they might be. but this means this means that what's the next move and of course what macarthur wants to do is to go to rabel and he wants the australian seventh army to do it for him but seventh division because he because he can't do it himself yeah and by june it's clear from ultra that the um uh the japanese have abandoned plans for invading port moorsby and the worry is an overland assault instead yeah what's really interesting is mark macarthur doesn't look at that that intel he doesn't make his decision base as intel even though midway has been won by a successful cracking of the japanese cipher and it's basically macarthur is focused on um going back to the philippines so he doesn't think the threat to port maulsby yes from an overland assault is something to worry about is one that he particularly needs to worry about no don't worry about that it'll be fine yeah and this is because all he cares about is the philippines there's no there's no two ways about it he's gonna he's gonna do everything he can to get back there and and interesting though blamey also discounts this intelligence and he sends 14th brigade to port moorsby and 7th brigade to milne bay which is eastern end around the corner as it were yeah where there's another possible landing point where he thinks this will be enough to protect against It's the seaborne invasion.

55:17Al Murray: So they aren't worried about a land crossing of Papua from the north. Because who would be stupid enough to do that through these 13 ,000 foot high mountain peaks? Yeah. And jungle as dark as night beneath the canopy. Who would be that stupid? All of that. Yeah. And so the decision to deploy the 7th Division of Papua to secure territories abandoned, So to go further up into country and secure it. So to go north, because they're going to catch a rabble for MacArthur. The Americans. Yeah. Yeah, for the Americans. And Peter Bruin, the historian, he says... Peter Bruin's not impressed, does he? No.

56:00What does he say, Jim? He says, nothing more than a selfish, vain pursuit of MacArthur's agenda. This decision was soon to have appalling consequences for the Australian army.

56:10Al Murray: Raoul amazingly records, I'm on record on the Sunday following the fall of Tobruk, saying to my officers that if we were where we should be, it would be in New Guinea with the 7th Division. Yeah. So he knows the way the wind's blowing. But also it's mateship. Once we're Aussies together. Mateship. Come on, Jim. Mateship. Come on. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship. Mateship. Yeah, cobber. anyway there is only one vital overland passage from the northern parts of the owen stanley range to port moorsby and the objective will inevitably be to secure the only viable airstrip in the area which is at kokoda capturing this village and the airstrip opens access to the trail overland to Port Moresby.

57:01Al Murray: It is the key to Port Moresby and the key to Australian security and defence in this phase of the Second World War. And in our next episode, we'll look at how that campaign gets underway. Ideas about what the Kokoda Gap might be are quite strange and what the track and trail might be also. Yes. We will see you for our next episode. If you want to get to that right away, then go to our We Have Ways to Make You Talk Patreon. Sign up for membership for all sorts of stuff as well as ad-free listening and series all in one lump. We will see you again next time when we fix bayonets, Jim, and make our way up the golden staircase in Kokoda.

57:41And far brands from top of people's heads.

57:43Al Murray: If we've got brands, is the point. If we've got brands, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, we'll see you then. Cheerio. G'day.