North African Odyssey: To Hell And Back (Part 3)

0:02Al Murray: Thank you for listening to We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com slash we have ways.

0:25Al Murray: This episode is brought to you by WISE. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way. WISE keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies. Most transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid-market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees.

1:06So when money needs to move, you can see the rate, know the fee and get on with it. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees by downloading the Wise app today.

1:16Al Murray: Be smart, get wise, T's and C's apply. Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip. The Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. This episode is brought to you by Refund Club. Now, if there is one eternal lesson of history, it's that paperwork matters. The forgotten agreement, the line in the ledger, often that's where the story changes.

1:55And there's a paper trail that could rewrite your own history. If you financed a car in the UK between 2007 and 2021 with lenders like Blackhorse or Barclays, you could be owed money.

2:07Al Murray: Yeah, the cheque takes about 60 seconds. I ran my details and a couple of old agreements popped out without needing any relic registration numbers. And it's completely free to check. You only pay a fee if your claim is successful. How about that? The Financial Conduct Authority confirmed that millions of UK drivers were hit with hidden commissions. And if you finance more than one car since 2007, each could be a separate claim, with the average payout at£829 a pop. It all adds up. If you're a driver in the UK, visit refundclub.co.uk slash whw. That's refundclub.co.uk slash whw for your free cheque.

2:59Those last few miles were perhaps the worst part of the whole march. At first, we started off singing and swinging along into a good marching pace. After the last five days of great exertion and mental strain, relief buoyed this up. We had accomplished what had looked so impossible. We had fought off the enemy in four engagements and passed right through his screen in front of Tunis with a march of 70 miles on little food and water and hardly any sleep. Gradually, the reaction set in as the miles dragged on and on, and we again experienced the full effect of our exhaustion. We felt so sure they would send over transport for us, but as each kilometre stone went by, our spirits went lower and lower.

3:43The ranks wavered and struggled out, and finally lost all cohesion as they stumbled and strayed over the road. At last, we were too tired to raise foot from ground, and slivered along as those skating, making the sparks fly in the darkness. So at last, later that evening, on 3rd of December, we came to measures at Al-Bab. We passed a big concrete and steel railroad, Brock, and tottered through the defences of a French Tireur regiment. No doubt they looked at us in wonder, marvelling at the sight of half-dead men pitching and reeling from one side of the road to the other, like drunks, incapable of steering a course.

4:22That, of course, was Lieutenant Peter Stainforth, Royal Engineers. Yeah. Wow. Well. That's an account, isn't it?

4:31Al Murray: Yes, that's from his poorly named Winds of the Wing. Wings of the Wind, you see. I can't remember. It's such a terrible title. I can't remember it. Bad title, great book. Bad title, great book. Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Our third episode of what Tupara did next, the Oodna disaster. And we're in the Odysseus Returns phase of John Frost's Odyssey, I think. Aren't we, Jim? If anyone could be - Where is Penelope? That's what I want to know. Well, I think in John Frost's case, Penelope may well be a bottle of whiskey waiting for him at brigade headquarters. Who knows? Warm and cosy and welcoming him towards the comfort of bed.

5:09Al Murray: Never let him down. No, ever. If anyone is Odysseus, the wily Odysseus, it's moustache stroking Lieutenant Cool, John Frost picking his moments, slipping away into the night. Of course. They get out of one scrape. Imperturbable, indefatigable. Exactly. And always with a solution. They get out of one scrape into another. They either give the enemy the slip by guile or the twists of fate as the Luftwaffe's harpies swoop in and attack the Germans in the nick of time. It's, I think this is, it's a maroon odyssey. That's what this is. It's Homeric. That's what it is. Exactly. Exactly. And he has to leave his wounded behind.

5:47Al Murray: Some of his men are adrift. He never sees them again. You know, all this, it's, I think this is positively Homeric. write it as a massive, massive poem. I mean, it'd be interesting to see what Bill would make of that. This is our mutual publisher. A great friend. Bill, I've decided to write it as a Homeric poem. The story of John Frost. He is Odysseus and I'm going to call it Odysseus Returns. The story of what two faradies next. It would absolutely fly off a shelf. Sing to me, O Muse.

6:27The songs of the sirens. I mean, it's all there, isn't it? Think of all the kind of classical allusions you could put in. Oh, God. You know, well. Part Herodotus, part Homer, part Aeschylus.

6:38Al Murray: He's Odysseus. He's descended from the skies, you know, upon Pegasus, for heaven's sake. I mean, it's. Listen, you could even have Greek gods appearing to him at opportune moments. You know, sort of hero. there in front of him on the rocky outcrop near el bam it's all there isn't it i sing of the arms of them and of the man there you are it's first line of the naird as our very intellectual producer he's cleverer than us i've always said it and i will continue to do so the thing is it's um you know uh it's got that element and i and i i think what's interesting actually i mean before we get into this in fact we you know we need to we need to sort of round up really and how we ended how they ended up getting here because it's such it's so weird is that what the parachute regiment guys do the parachute battalions do in north africa is the thing that absolutely seals their reputation as fighting men um but that's a bit later than this that's when they go into the line and they're like filling in for guardsmen and filling in for different people in the line this This is something else.

7:43Al Murray: This is something sort of crazier. It's an outlier, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is. It is. It's an outlier because ultimately, yes, they do succeed in the mission, but they also don't achieve anything. It doesn't achieve anything. It's awful. Because none of the airfields they're supposed to capture are airfields anymore. So the whole thing is utterly pointless. And it starts from a point of view of really bad intelligence, which is a terrible way to begin an extremely dangerous and high-risk operation deep behind enemy lines, I would argue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hard to argue against it. At the end of our last episode, they were leaving the farmstead at El Fegger under attack by Falschie Begge.

8:27Al Murray: Falschie. Frost had repulsed the Germans by laying low. He's so short of ammunition that he's ordered his men not to fire. So the Germans think there's no one there. Yes. And we have that amazing incident with the Faust-Mieger who's gone for a slayer. That's right. Yeah. Hans Teske. And what we'll do, and, you know, he sounds his hunting horn again, like Odysseus, so they know it's the last breakout. And we'll come back and look at that little battle because there's some great accounts of it. But I think we should take a moment to reflect to how on earth we got here. How, you know, an elite force of 600 paratroopers or 550 paratroopers is now down to a couple of hundred blokes running for their lives in Tunisia.

9:06Al Murray: And it's all to do with the summer of 1940, the strategic earthquake. You know, we've talked about the sort of knock-ons, the macro knock-ons of the strategic earthquake. You know, America realizing that it can't outsource security to Europe anymore. You know, what it means for the Japanese, the fact that the British Empire is in such a trumbull and the, you know, all the, and the moving parts and Roosevelt's response to it and all this stuff. But a big part of what happens in 1940 is because of the German success, everyone goes, how on earth did they do that? How have they bowled us over? And rather than going, what did we do wrong?

9:45Al Murray: They very much try and figure out what magic ingredient the Germans had in the summer of 1940. And in fact, people have been looking for that ever since, haven't they? Even the idea that they're all on Benzedrine or whatever, or Pervitin rather. There's always a search for this magic ingredient. And one of them is airborne operations. And, you know, after the summer of 1940, you know, Churchill writes this famous memo saying we're going to need some airborne troops. And I want commandos for, you know, butcher and bolt raids and all this sort of stuff. Raiding the enemy coast, keeping Jerry off balance, all this sort of stuff.

10:21Al Murray: And then this grows into there's going to be an airborne division. And the division will fight completely self-sufficiently. I mean, that's what you see at Arnhem. That's why Arnhem, you know, only half of the gliders that can carry infantryman carry infantryman. There's mechanics and there's policemen and there's provosts and there's, you know, clerks and all this sort of stuff that goes to Arnhem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but the fundamental problem, and this is the one that I just find it absolutely extraordinary that they don't get this with greater clarity, is that any soldier is only as good as the ammunition he's got on his pouch.

10:58Yep. You know, a soldier with no weapons isn't a soldier, he's a bloke. Yeah. And this is the fundamental problem. What I find also absolutely amazing is that no one seems to twig, is that the key to German success in the Blitzkrieg years is superior operational art and tactical flexibility. Yeah. That is achieved through communications, which is the fundamental shortcoming of the Western Front and the bogged down wars. And ditto the front on the Italian front in the Eastern Alps, for example. It's all about that. And we're going to be getting on to the second part of the Barbarossa series. It's the same problem.

11:45The problem with the Soviet Union, the Red Army, who have this overwhelming material superiority, is that they can't organise themselves as well as the Germans can organise themselves. It is literally the more organised team wins. I mean, it's just as simple as that. And so what they're doing with the airborne forces is hunting for a panacea that doesn't exist. And they're actually learning the wrong lessons. There absolutely is a role for airborne operations. You know, biting the Brunewald raid is a perfect example of that. Well, that's John Frost's point. But Frost is absolutely right. It is limited operations, not whole-scale operations.

12:26And you can do whole-scale operations, like Operation Varsity right at the end of the war, or like the 11th US Airborne Operation in the Philippines. If your comms are good, and ultimately your operational art is good, then you can do it. And the goal is of a limited nature, which is completely in keeping with the forces you're deploying. The moment you extend that, you're in big stuc.

12:50Al Murray: Well, and a big part of airborne operational art is that you're relieved quickly, because otherwise you are just a bloke without any ammunition and without any water. And we've looked at the two things here. You say communications and relief are the two key elements. They get through to First Army once with their radios, and the message is there's no relief. So there's the two things in one go. All right, but why does it take the enemies of Nazi Germany so long to work out that the key to operating is comms in a modern war? I don't know, Jim, because it's difficult. Because it's really, really difficult, isn't it?

13:31It is, but why isn't greater R &D, research and development priority, put onto that? If you can invent the cavity magnetron, surely you can invent a half-decent radio.

13:41Al Murray: Well, you've spent the money on the cavity magnetron, So you're making the radio with the money you've got left. You could argue. But that's what it needs. I have never seen, and it may well exist, but I've just never seen it. I've never seen a document at a high-level planning meeting, and I'm talking about sort of core and above, to army, to army group, to just general headquarters, where they've said, what we really need to sort out is how we communicate on the battlefield and combine all odds. But the thing is, is everyone's, you know, there's no radios below battalion level in 1940. You know, radios go to battalion headquarters in 1940 in the BEF.

14:21Al Murray: So they're not in radio contact with the rest of the battalion lower down. Right. So they're taking orders for brigade, for division, for corps. Right. So when they do start rolling radios through, I mean, Monty's amongst them who says, I'm not sure about this because I'm worried that what's going to happen is my subalterns will ask for orders all the time. and if they don't get their orders by radio they won't have any initiative and they won't be able to crack on and do what i need them to do yeah but what you do need to do is you need to be able to communicate you need to be able to communicate with the with with the component parts you know infantry with armor armor with artillery and and with with engineers and with reconnaissance troops and and so you so you can exploit so you can withdraw Germany wins in France in 1940 because of radios.

15:07Yeah. France loses in 1940 because of a lack of radios. It is as simple as that. Yeah. Well, there we go. If you're trying to think of one reason why France loses, it's that. What's the actual edge? It's communications. So why has Germany worked that out but no one else? That's what I find absolutely baffling.

15:27Al Murray: Well, because they're caught in an innovation trap where they have to make things work as quickly as possible. So they're looking for solutions. The French aren't looking for solutions. You know, it's... They're looking for a defensive war. They're looking for a defensive way of doing things. I think that's right. And then they're thinking, we don't need to innovate. We just need to dig in. I think it is really interesting, though, that... So anyway, so, you know, the airborne fall into this sort of panacea possibility, but they're completely operationally naive, as we've seen, you know, that choosing your drop zones from the door of the aircraft is, I think is all right if there's half a dozen of you, but not when you're deploying a battalion, right?

16:06Al Murray: No, it's absolutely nuts. But what you've also got here, you know, so you've got volunteers are motivated, they're gung-ho, they're really expensive to train because they've got to learn how to parachute and you've got to figure out how to develop parachuting. And we saw in the earlier episode, you know, when they first get to the Dakotas, blokes are being killed as they figure out how to jump from a new aircraft. I mean, it's a bitter and expensive business in every sense. And also you've got the fact the air ministry are resisting, fighting this thing tooth and nail all the way. So little wonder they're operationally naive and little wonder they haven't been, you know, they're hung up on the things they see as their immediate problems, the airborne people, which is how do we get in planes?

16:49Al Murray: How do we get deployed even? They're thinking about that rather than what they do once they land, I think, a bit more. You know, Frost says we hadn't really thought about ammunition expenditure. It's because they're hung up on the parachuting bit because they're not getting the chances they want, you know. And, you know, the airborne operations have not offered proof of concept so far. Colossus is a disaster. Brunival raid goes well. Right. But it's much more within everyone's reach. It's on the French coast. It's just the other side of the road, so to speak. The Navy can get there in a way that deep Italy, Mezzogiorno Italy, isn't quite so accessible.

17:30But also that everything about it leans into a rapid deployment and rapid withdrawal. Pulling out of the operation as well. It's got a very obvious start, middle and end. and you're allowing those superior troops of their superior training, motivation, use of initiative and use of weapon to operate at their maximum advantage, which is what you always want them to do, rather than letting them kind of run out of steam, run out of everything, you know, bail around and have to kind of stop picking up their feet from one to the other and sliver along the ground. Concentration of force.

18:10Al Murray: I mean, you're literally not concentrating your force here. I mean, it is... I mean, this is a mad story. And so you end up with this thing, you know, through all these sort of slips, twixts, cup and lip, First Parachute Brigade, you know, being fed piecemeal into a North African campaign, liaising with the headquarters at First Army, who could be described as sceptical at best about airborne operations, hostile at worst. You know, their attitude, who are these unproven people who can't deliver what they claim to promise? And why do they keep cancelling operations anyway? You know, you can see there's only going to be friction.

18:47But there's also a curious lack of intellectual curiosity from the army headquarters. Yeah, yeah. If you're on army headquarters, you've got these highly motivated and highly trained troops. Why wouldn't you sit down and go, okay, this is potentially cool. This is not my world. Tell me all about it. How can we work it out? How can we use them to the best of our advantage? You know, because basically they might be jumping out of aircraft, but they're still applying sound, you know, they still need to be applying sound military principles, which are ageless. They're not, you know, new technology hasn't changed the principles behind it.

19:24Al Murray: But I think First Army are there in that bind where they're thinking, we just need some infantry to plug into the line here. Thanks very much. That's actually what we want them for. And the airborne people go, well, you can't do that. You absolutely can't do that. We're specialised. We have a role and all this sort of thing. And because everyone's new to it, no one really knows what that role actually is. Yes, but what that means is you're then deploying troops where neither party is happy with the deployment. Exactly. Because the airborne command isn't getting what it wants and the ground forces aren't getting what they want.

19:58And the people who are caught in the middle are the actual airborne troops themselves, who are clearly not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

20:04Al Murray: Yeah, but it reminds me, you remember in the Afghan war when we were in Iraq and Afghanistan, it must have been, I don't know, 20 years ago, and there was that use it or lose it moment, apparently, where the government were told, you're going to need to use your infantry battalions or you're going to have to cut them. You know, this is a use it or lose it situation. Browning has got to get some stuff done because otherwise someone will say, you know what, let's just bust these guys back down into light infantry and let's cancel the whole project. It's only a raiding force. It's not a division.

20:35Al Murray: So there's so many things at work here, you know, that now you end up with a bunch of blokes in a, you know, in a farm relying on the cactus as a defensive line. I mean, it's, you know, they're 50 miles behind enemy lines. And his battalion, and he's come through as a company commander, the battalion commander, you know, they're all volunteers. It's been torn apart, this battalion, smashed to pieces. in five days. They've been abandoned by First Army. The armoured thrust is meant to come through that hasn't come. It's been called off. There's no planes on the airfield. And the Germans, obviously, they want a victory here.

21:16Al Murray: They want to round these powers up. So, I mean, it's a bit of business. So, come the dawn of 3rd of December, and they landed on the 29th, Frost decides to send another party out to find First Army. This is 1942. So, this is less than a month after the torch on the 8th of November. Operation Torch School. And the night before, again, it's been torrid. They've pulled off the impossible. They've disengaged the enemy while under attack, which is supposedly the most difficult thing of all. And again, they've repelled the attack by waiting until the enemies got really close. And the men have been ordered not to open fire until kills were certain.

21:56Al Murray: And the sign that the enemy is coming is very simple. The Arab family in the farm, they pack up and leave. They just, they go. I'm out of here. We're out of here, thanks. The first inklings of the German presence. So there's Lieutenant Dennis Rendell, who back at Udner, is the fellow who rushes ahead with his platoon on the attack of the airfield. And they all say, oh, he's headed off to Tunis. And he has to be recovered, has to come back into the company area during the night. He's gone for a dump. And he says he was quietly having a shit behind the cactus bushes when he saw motion on the skyline.

22:31Al Murray: It's not what you want, is it? and he runs back to his company headquarters and he's told, well, they're getting out as soon as night falls. And he says, well, actually, he says to the company 2IC, Keith Malford, he says, I've seen movement on the skyline. And they have another look and immediately mortars start popping in. Foo! In come the mortars. Foo! Foo! In they come. Crump, crump, crump of the mortar. Ba! Starting up and all that sort of stuff. Machine gun as well. Ba! There we are. It's just so good, isn't it? And Peter Stainforth, he recalls what happened as follows. And Jim, your Peter is doing a great job for us.

23:10Open fire as soon as the enemies start to leave the broken ground ahead. Don't waste ammunition. We've got to hold them off until dark. Same drill as last night, I inquired. Yes, exactly. The colonel will blow his hunting horn as soon as it's dark enough for us to make a getaway. When you hear it, collect your section together and go like smoke for the big gate in the farmyard. I'll be waiting for you there. We have to get into the hills as fast as possible. Okay? He crawled away towards his own section. Suddenly the hunting horn sounded. We lifted our feet and went like the wind down the cactus-lined pods and into the cobbled farmyard.

23:44About 60 of us had kept together in that mad rush from the farm. David took command and led us northwestwards up a rocky goat track winding into the heart of the Jebel Mengu. All was so exhausted by now that it was necessary to move very slowly and halt every half hour. Directly the word to Holt was passed. The men sank into their tracks and were immediately asleep. It was the most incredible phenomenon. The columns would suddenly keel over like a line of skittles and melt to the ground. Amazing.

24:11Al Murray: They are absolutely done, aren't they? And they're still going. Yeah. But you're getting the sense, the frenetic sense of this, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're, you know, it's halfway between panic and, you know, narcolepsy, isn't it? They're really in trouble. And Rendell is wounded and captured in the chaos that follows in that battle. And he's literally told, for you, Zavoy is over. Not that old chestnut. That old chestnut. He's taken to Italy. And when the armistice comes in September 1943, Dennis Rendell escapes. And from the POW count, goes on the run. And while he's on the run, he famously has his picture taken at a rifle range at a fun fair with German troops, either side of him, completely oblivious.

24:59Al Murray: And that story is absolutely amazing. So he's holed up with these guys. And the Italians go, the funfair's coming to town. And he's thinking, what? How have they got the fuel? What do you mean there's a funfair coming to town? This is nonsense, right? And they sort of, him and two other guys, they basically don't believe it. So they go on a recce. They go and have a look. And there's a funfair, you know, with steam engines and a rifle range and all this sort of stuff. And so they go in to the funfair and there's a rifle range where if you hit the target, it takes your photo. And because 2Para's musketry is really, really good.

25:45Al Murray: So Polaroid just comes out. Yeah, it's a flash photo like that if you hit the target. And he's a crack shot because the musketry is really good in 2Para. so he he takes and there's this photo and there's this two two lancer next to him you know in their slouch caps so it still exists yeah yeah it's out there somewhere I mean I'll find it it's absolutely it's absolutely amazing and then the blokes with him go I think we need to I think we need to get out of here I think it's it's a bad idea us being around so they bugger off it's absolutely amazing absolutely amazing and the great thing is the two Germans either side of it they're willing him to hit the target yeah they go go and hit the target mate yeah Go on, mate.

26:24You can do it. Wow.

26:27Al Murray: What a story. So the story in the obituary is, among the sideshows was a short shooting range where customers could try their luck with an air rifle hitting a plate 20 yards away. If they succeeded, the impact of the slug triggered an automatic flashlight photograph of the marksman. Randall and six of his fellow escapees could not resist visiting the fair. Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe servicemen were at the range, but their shooting was poor and the camera seldom flashed. Two Luftwaffe men put up such an abysmal performance that Randall, exasperated beyond endurance, could stand no more. He grabbed the rifle, rammed a slug up the breach, aimed and fired.

26:57Al Murray: A satisfying clang followed by a large flash signal by a bullseye. The fugitives, rather shaken by attracting so much attention, collected the film and slipped away quickly, leaving the Germans to pay. Ha ha ha! Fantastic! I've got to say, I think that is literally my favourite story ever. It's just so brilliant, isn't it? It's absolutely incredible. I wonder if there were any foci d 'artificio. That's Italian for far work. Ah, is it? That's very good. And then their escape line is betrayed. Rendell moves his team to Rome, decides to go to Rome. on one occasion, Rendell, whose highly proper manner, master Daredevil's streak that erupted from time to time, approached several German senior officers at the Opera House.

27:45Al Murray: In execrable Italian, he asked one of them to sign his programme. when Rendell returned to his comrades they asked him if he'd gone off his rocker the German officer in question was the military governor of Rome

27:59that's just superb did he ever write a memoir or anything?

28:03Al Murray: I don't know but there are some there's his I definitely need to know more there's his account on Paradata of I was going for a crap and suddenly I saw the Germans he sounds absolutely amazing this guy what a fellow i mean let's let well well let's have a little dig into dennis there we go i think that's with the gun it's such a great picture anyway anyway um um so i love that i've never heard that story before ever isn't it amazing anyway once they've escaped anyway once the odna back to odna once they've escaped odysseus frost has to gather his officers together to make plans for the morning.

28:47Al Murray: And everyone fell asleep when he stops them to talk to them, right? Because they're so tired. So he goes, all right, we need to do an O group. And everyone just falls asleep because they stop, right? And his account does read like somebody can't really remember what happened because he was so, so tired. And they're woken by how cold it is. The thing that wakes them up is how cold it is. Incredible. And about three in the morning, about three in the morning, the party of sappers that Peter Stainforth have been running with links up with the rest of the two-paracolumn. And there's about 200 blokes left.

29:22Al Murray: And they spot another farm. Out of the 600 that kick off. Out of the 600 or so, yeah, who've gone in. So they spot another farm. And so Frost sends Peter Stainforth ahead to investigate, because Frost has a real soft spot for sappers, and rightly so. And Stainforth goes forward to this farmhouse. I pulled a heavy bell chain in the porch and the deep clanging at the back of the house seemed to make an appalling commotion Presently, one of the shuttered windows opened and somebody looked out quickly then patted down the passage The bolts were drawn and a middle-aged lady in a dressing gown and slippers opened the door with a crack In spite of the apparition standing on the doorstep armed and covered in grime she recovered her poise almost immediately and asked me politely of what service she could be Madam, I explained as well as I could in my limited French.

30:14Nous sommes British soldiers, on our way to Meges-el-Bam. We're very tired, having marched a long way. We should be very grateful if you would let us sleep in your barns for a few hours before we continue our journey. Oui, monsieur. Anything you wish, he replied. This is straight out of the Odyssey.

30:32Al Murray: They found an island with this beautiful French woman and her daughters in the middle of nowhere. And they all rest up. They're not careful, though. We turn into pigs. Well, exactly. She serves Frost champagne. Frost drinks champagne. And in the morning, the farmer's daughters serve the officers ham and eggs. And Stainforth can't eat. He finds the idea of food too disgusting. And Frost hasn't slept at all. He's been up. He's so hungry. He's so hungry. He can't cope with it. He finds it all vile. And Frost hasn't slept, but he's had a drink. good thank god for that right he knows that they're about 20 miles now from medges al-bab which they know you can operate again now yeah exactly it's back it's back i'm back on basically um but but but but the woman the the french lady says they're in no man's land and they've never they never know who's coming through next and of course the day before frost had sent charterist you and charterist off and and as we said in the last episode you and charterist is killed um and anyway frost's moved so how would charterist find him it's a sort of it's all like he would pretty unjoined up so he chooses sergeant alan johnston who we met in the last episode who was the fellow from aberdeen he was very talked about how tired he was and then he winked at the german lad going for a slash and lieutenant slapsey braley who's the one the officer in part one pugilist yeah exactly you chinned a drunk private and they set off on a pair of ponies and compare themselves to, you know, Sancho Panza and all this sort of thing.

32:09Al Murray: And off they go. And the remaining contingent, which is about 100 men with Frost, because remember, Frost broke them up into company parties. It's easier to travel in smaller numbers. Right. And off they go. Braley and Johnson, they make good progress heading for Medjez El Bab. They stop along the way. They ask the locals for directions. They break bread and they drink red wine. And they say, where are the British army? And the locals say, well, they're Medjez El Bab, of course. And after 11 hours on these ponies, they run into a pair of tanks. and obviously given the false alarm of previous days with armour, they're a little bit wary, but the man in the commander's hatch, he's wearing a beret.

32:44Al Murray: So Braley shouts, Lieutenant Braley, 2nd Parachute Battalion. And the guy in the tank replies, oh, we've been wondering about you. Okay, so he is a British tankman. He is a British tankman. Yeah. Luckily. Yes, the German wouldn't say that. No, no, of course. So they've made it back. God, I mean, you know, I'm sorry to interrupt here, but, you know, insouciance is a studied art form, isn't it, in the British Army in the Second World War? Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It really is. And it's all people being cool, isn't it? Oh, I've wondered about you. Which implies they really haven't been, doesn't it?

33:32Al Murray: It implies they've not been wondering about them. Anyway, we'll take a break and then Frost will escape from Circe's Island and hopefully make it back to Medjizelbab. Without too many of his men transforming. Turning into swine. See you in a tick. Swine. Swine.

33:56This episode is brought to you by World of Warships by Wargaming.

34:00Al Murray: War at sea was never just battleships exchanging fire. It was convoys, escorts, carriers, destroyers hunting submarines, and decisions made with everything working against you. World of Warships takes a tactical world and makes it playable. They have 850 ships, 13 nations, and 5 ship types. And the ships are all rooted in real naval history, recreated from historic blueprints and legendary designs. They're not just skins, they're machines defined by a unique balance of speed, concealment, firepower, and range. You can even relive history's most pivotal moments on the seas, from the D-Day naval bombardment to the Dunkirk evacuation.

34:39Al Murray: You can also join a community of naval history enthusiasts with real-life events held regularly all over the world. I mean, honestly, what's not to like? Click the link in the description to download the game for free on almost any PC. You'll also get a great starting bonus to get you up to speed, whether you're playing solo, at your own pace, or with friends. Give it a go. World of Warships by Wargaming. Is your home wish list just sitting in your cart? Well, get ready to hit checkout because Wayday at Wayfair starts October 24th with up to 80 % off everything home. That new sofa, the rug you've been eyeing, the upgrades you've been putting off, they could all be way less during Wayday.

35:19It's Wayfair's biggest sale of the year. So make your list and mark your calendar. Shop Wayday starting October 24th for up to 80 % off everything home at Wayfair.com.

35:30Al Murray: Wayfair, every style, every home. The holidays are busy enough. Getting your home ready shouldn't be. From the perfect tree and twinkling lights to festive decor for inside and out, Wayfair has everything you need to get your home holiday ready. Find furniture, hosting essentials, festive serveware, and more all in one place. so you can spend less time getting ready and more time enjoying the season with the people who make it special. Shop Wayfair.com today to make holiday magic at home. Wayfair, every style, every home.

36:08Al Murray: Welcome back to We Have Ways to Make Your Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. Sergeant Johnston and Lieutenant Braley have made contact with First Army. Meanwhile, finally, back at the farmhouse, Frost concludes that it's time to get out. There's rumour. Rumour reaches them because there's people just, you know, going backwards and forwards because this is an inhabited place. And there's a big, you know, there's a big flap on. Well, and surely, you know, nice bow it is to be sipping champagne and have ham and eggs. Yeah. You know, they've got to get on with it, haven't they? Yeah, exactly.

36:38Al Murray: Exactly. There's rumour of another German armoured column coming and they want to get going. And there's a hundred rounds of ammunition left between the hundred men left. and they're about 20 miles from Mejais El Bab. So Frost thinks, well, we can do that. And that's to the east of Mejais El Bab, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And just to add a bit of context to this, Mejais El Bab is at the western end of the Majurda Valley. Yeah. And the Majurda Valley is, you know, that's where Operation Strike takes place in May 1943, you know, the one that completely breaks the... German line. ...the Axis barrier into Tunis.

37:16Yeah.

37:17Al Murray: Yeah. And off they go. And they're in this sort of, they're in this absolutely flat-footed march. And again, they're nervous about the locals shouting from hilltops and the barking dogs. And at noon, they pause in an olive grove at a place called Casa Tia. And they spot three armoured cars. And the officers now know they don't need to tell the men to hold their fire anymore. Instincts for self-preservation have reached the point where no one's interested in having a crack at Jerry. No. And the men just freeze. They go completely silent. Some go to sleep because if they stop, they go to sleep. And Frost recalls absolute silence prevailed.

37:53Al Murray: And they got 10 miles to go now. Wide open country, no ammunition to speak of. They let these armored cars go. They think, you know, and they see them off. They go to Tunis with the dust behind them. And with the coast clear, they set off again. And those who are able keep watch as the rest drag themselves like zombies towards Medjaz El Bab. And every distant cart, life is going on all around them, after all, you know, would cause a stampede for cover. Every donkey became a motorcycle patrol. Every cart a tank until we reached such a pitch of alarm and false alarm that we almost ceased to care.

38:29Al Murray: And then two more miles pass. And then suddenly there's vehicles, half tracks, not more than a mile away. Then 600 yards away, half a dozen half tracks. Then the leading vehicle comes over the crest of the dip in the road, a hundred yards away. And on the bonnet, Jim is a white star. Hooray. It's the Americans. Thank God for that. Yes. Gee whiz. It's Americans from the U S first armor division. So frost goes forward, waving his yellow identification triangle above his head. To para, to para. And the men whoop and cheer. And they would, they would, and they're saved. Although, as we heard in the reading at the top, Peter Stainforth recalls, no one then sends trucks to come and get them.

39:12Al Murray: They then just have to carry on marching to Medjizapab.

39:17So, it's not brilliant.

39:19Al Murray: That's absolutely incredible, isn't it? I mean, you know, talk about rubbing salt in the wood. So, Frost then gets to 78th Battleaxe Division's headquarters at Uedzaga. Sidney Kirkman is the commander in those days. Yeah, and he's told that plans have changed and there's a new thrust on a different axis underway anyway. No, now you tell me. Yeah, now you tell me. And while he's there, Major General Vivian Evely, is it Evely or Everly? He's fictive, I think, isn't he? Yeah. Everly. He takes Frost to one side and says, you've held the enemy up and tied up troops looking for you. Well done. Bravo.

39:52Al Murray: Great, great effort. And he promises to send men to look for Frost chaps the next day and it doesn't happen. They don't send anyone out. No. Because... Leave it all to me, I'll talk about it. Yeah, exactly. And as they get back to Medjizabab, the town's on standby for an attack by Falschimjäger. They think the Germans are going to attack. So these blokes have been going for five days and they're told to make ready to defend the town. You just think how tired you'd be hallucinating. So they stand to four in the following morning to the sound of Frost's hunting horn. But the attack doesn't come.

40:27Al Murray: And, you know, the town's full of French colonial soldiers and Americans. And again, everywhere they go, Frost's reassured that, you know, with their perambulations behind enemy lines, they've distracted the enemy from their main effort. Right. But it's difficult to say, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, First Army launched the operation thereafter, made no attempt to find out what's going on. So it's not that much of it may have distracted the enemy, but it didn't distract First Army, did it? No. I mean, not at all. This is the thing. You've ended up with a situation where, you know, needing to use the parachutists rather than actually figuring out what to do with them.

41:00Al Murray: The bad relations between 1st Parachute Brigade staff, 1st Army staff, coming up with a crappy plan. You know, they land on the 29th of November, return on the 3rd of December. Two paras lost 16 officers and 250 other ranks. Oh, my God. In the pursuit of aircraft that aren't there. But were never there. And, you know, it's a wild goose chase. They have no artillery, no air support, no transport, no armour. It's a shaggy dog story. It is, exactly, exactly. And they've got themselves out of the grip of 1st Battalion, 5th Foulship Jaeger, 10th Panzer Division's recce squadron, and a battery of Italian artillery.

41:35Al Murray: That's who's been chasing around after them. Yeah. They're out the frying pan, but as we will see eventually, I'm sure at some point we have ways, they find themselves in the fire pretty soon. By the way, I was wrong. Everly is commanding the 78th Division at that time. Right, okay. Kirkman comes later. Right, okay. I think he's by Sisley. Right, there we go. And I'm pretty sure Avalie goes over to Diffusion. Yeah, I think he does, yeah. Yeah. But Tupara, they're then sent back to a place called Slugia to sort themselves out. And a trickle of men keep coming in. So 60 men come in the next day.

42:12Al Murray: You know, this trickle of blokes still going. Right, and this is because they've all been spit up by, you know, as they're trying to get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. because Frost figured it would be easier rather than going en masse. I mean, there's literally a handful of men left from C Company, from Jock Company, the Brunner Valgeist, half a dozen. All the rest are in the bag, all killed, gone, missing. Amazing. The bulk of the survivors come from A Company, Battalion Headquarters, Support Company, and the sappers from 1st Parachute Squadron RE, so Peter Stainforth, which is why we've got his account.

42:42Al Murray: No one left, basically, from B Company. His second-in-command, Philip Teichmann's dead. They're all gone. Yeah. The adjutant, Jock Shortz, killed. Ewan Chartres is dead. Doug Crawley of B Company has been led all the way back to Medjizalbad by Ronald Stark having been blinded. He's led him all the way with his hand on his shoulder. That's amazing. It is, isn't it? And then Captain John Ross, who was Frost IIIC at Bruneval, he eventually reappears with sort of a handful of the C Company men. Oh, good. Yeah. And then it's worth telling a couple of these evasion stories. So one of the men who makes his way back is Corporal McConney.

43:20Al Murray: Now, he dislocated his shoulder on landing back at Depienne. So he was taken to the schoolhouse at Depienne as a casualty. And remember, there was a party left there to guard the parachutes. So the wounded had been taken at that time. The wounded had been taken away with two para. And he's left there on his own with Lieutenant Buchanan and the parachute guarding party. and Italian tanks and motorcycles turn up. Buchanan and his Batman are hit in the firefight and McConaughey's taken a prisoner by the Italians. But he succeeds in hiding a fighting knife in his trousers, right? Excellent. And the knife has gone undetected when they search him.

44:01Al Murray: And he says, as dusk approached, the sentries seemed to get more nervous. And whenever he turned his back, I loosened the knife. At last I got it out. I put it in my left hand, chose a pocket. When he next presented his back to me, I whipped out the knife and struck at his back under the left shoulder. He gave a cry and fell forward on his face. I must have lost my head if I struck again and again at the inert form. He was having a bit of a frenzy, wasn't he there? Yep, yep. Kills the guard. He gets away. He goes back to the schoolhouse to retrieve the Sten gun he's hidden in the roof before he's captured.

44:32Al Murray: Sheeper. I mean, these have nailed some of these people. Yeah, they are, aren't they? Yeah, they are. Using a compass from his escape kit, he makes for Pont du Fa. And Pontefiar, of course, is the first place they were supposed to land in the first place that they'd been briefed on. He falls on the mercy of a French family who feed him sausage and eggs. Then he changes course because they told him to go to Medges-el-Pab. That's where the Allies are. And he's alone and he's really finding it impossible to cope with the heat. And he has the good fortune to bump into the 56th Recce Regiment, who he met right back at Deppier when they first turn up.

45:05Al Murray: Then there's another man who's been taken prisoner. That's Lance Corporal Cadden. Caden's a Dunkirk veteran and one of the Brunewald Sea Company guys. He's been picked up by the Italians. He's going to be handed over to the Germans and he's handed over to the Germans. And as they're being lined up, there's a whole bunch of them. As far as he can tell, they're going to shoot them as saboteurs. They're all yelling about the commando be failed. Really? Yeah. And Caden reassures himself, well, I'm wearing a uniform. I'm a regular soldier. You know, there's no trickery going on here. We're not in disguise.

45:38Al Murray: Yeah. And Cadden and the other prisoners are lined up against the wall. A machine gun is set up in front of them. And they put their berets on and they flick V's at the machine gunner. You know, stick it up your ass, mate. And the German officers who's ordered their murder, who's ordered this, commands the machine gunner to fire. Oh, my God. And at that moment, an armored car pulls up with Oberloist and Volta Koch, who's the commanding officer of 5th Falsheim Jäger. He jumps out the armored car, kicks over the machine gun. And the two German officers, Koch and this other officer, have this huge row, which concludes with Koch saying to the British prisoners, you are paratroopers and you put up a brave fight.

46:18Al Murray: You are prisoners of war and will be treated as such. Wow. That's about as close as it gets, isn't it? That is, yeah, it is. And, you know, these close shaves are all over the place. And so the Germans now have loads of really pissed off paratroopers on their hands. there's an awful lot of them who are very very unimpressed with the operation it'd been planned and do believe they've been led on a wild goose chase they feel completely let down you know they feel completely let down they feel they feel you know the whole thing's a um a travesty and they're right to i think you would do you've lost you've lost loads of your mates you've been queering around doing achieving absolutely nothing dodging the germans no support whatsoever i mean you would be pissed off, wouldn't you?

47:02Yeah, you would. You would.

47:03Al Murray: But they also have to deal with men who are just desperate to escape. So there's a medical officer, McGavin, Captain McGavin. With the Padre, McGavin's flown to Italy in a plane full of blankets and petrol. So when the plane lands, McGavin sets the blankets alight with the petrol, right? Sets fire to the plane, destroys the aeroplane. And he's almost shot on the spot, right? And then he later breaks both his legs jumping out of a train. Well, I can see there might be a little bit peeve by that i think he he you know he got away with that and the padre also escapes through a toilet window so he's showing your lad he's a good lad but the thing is though and you know in frost's account and all the accounts it's all about the sort of daring do and the guts of the men but it's a complete pointless failure waste of time waste of effort achieve nothing yeah yeah loss of men yeah it's it's careless isn't it yeah the planning of it the operation of it yeah yeah they've been broken on the wheel of other men's incompetence and their unfortunate eagerness to get into battle come what may because i think that's a big part of it they're desperate to go so they say yes to something stupid and the next problem that frost has is because parachute training and recruitment is such a prolonged and specialized business reinforcing and rebuilding the battalion immediately is not an option so they have to take the replacements they're given And they get a couple of hundred gunners.

48:27Al Murray: And Frost has to turn them into infantrymen. Parachute shock troop infantrymen then and there. Well, they're good to go by Sicily, aren't they? Let's face it. Premissari Bridge and all that. Well, but they're about to go into the line is the other thing. So it's hard to disagree with Frost's conclusion when he says, the fact of the matter was that the British Army had no idea how or when the new airborne capabilities should be used. And our own brigade headquarters set up was woefully inadequate to ensure that really dreadful errors should not occur. And he's right. you know? Yeah. But what it's going to need, right?

48:58Al Murray: Because Brunewald's been a success. Colossus and freshmen have failed. Battalions of airborne troops have misfired seriously. So you need a man of real zeal and self-belief to parley these failures into something fresh. And Boy Browning, who you could argue is responsible for this mess, is such a man because he's going to be able to persuade everyone. No, no, no, no. It hasn't been a disaster. Look what brilliant soldiers they are. So where do you sit with Boy Browning? I mean, do you think he was a twerp or are you sort of grudgingly admiring? I mean, I'm grudgingly admiring of this twerp who somehow pulled off something truly incredible.

49:37Al Murray: You wonder how different the history of being if he'd attached himself to something else. You know, whether any of this would have happened at all. Need men of energy, that's for sure. Exactly. And a man of push and go. And their kit is 500 miles away in Algiers. The battalion bagpipes have disappeared with a mule carrying them on the way to Sidi Bouhajaba. And once they're rested, Frost knows they're going to go into the line as infantry. So the ordeal in North Africa is far from over. In fact, it's about to begin. And this two powers odyssey really is the amuse-bouche for what their first parachute brigade is about to go through in North Africa.

50:17Well, I think we need to revisit their course through the war. I think we will. Because, you know, it's not just Arnhem.

50:23Al Murray: Let's just keep going back to Tupara. Yeah, I think so. I think that's a good idea. And something you touched on, Jim, in our first episode, about how the soil is red in North Africa will come into the story. It is in that bit of it. In that bit of North Africa, in that part of Tunisia, will come into the story when we return to what Tupara get up to in North Africa. Because it's part of the mythos of the Red Devils. Well, thanks, Al. That's been absolutely tremendous. I do remember very, very clearly driving to the cemetery, the British Commonwealth War Grove Cemetery in Medjaz el Bab. And you went off the tarmac, asphalted road, and down a track, this really red soil.

51:07Yeah. There was this square wall with a canopy of trees, and you went through the gates, and there it was, the corner of the foreign field that was Forever England. I mean, it was absolutely amazing. and of course loads of paras in there yeah yeah yeah you've never seen anything like it's sunny bird song absolutely galore roses flowers gorgeous grass you know really lush green grass whereas the grass all around is is more sort of prairie grass it's kind of sort of you know it's that kind of sandy dun color and long you know god amazing never forget it anyway but that's been a terrific series i mean what an eye opener yeah and and amazingly we've managed to keep it to three i know i know just about well because it's still it's quite a small action actually i've got to say your word discipline is better than mine

51:59Al Murray: well and we have a new superhero which is dennis rendle what a ledge what a ledge i mean that photo is absolutely amazing isn't it absolutely amazing I mean, this is the Odyssey, isn't it? You could cast these people as Achilles and Hector and all that sort of thing. And the chivalry, there's that little grain of chivalry in it. You are power troopers. You'll be treated as a war. You know, Germans fighting over machine guns. It's fantastic. Could be Hector. Anyway, thanks for listening, everybody. Our Barbarossa series will continue after this sidebar in North Africa. Become a Patreon. Why not?

52:40Al Murray: Go to our We Have Ways and Make You Talk Patreon. And on the Patreon are four, five chapters of Wings of the Wind, Peter Stainforth's memoir. Great bit of a bad title. Incredibly vivid prose about his ordeal in North Africa as part of Two Power. And then what they do afterwards is a little bit of what happens afterwards. And he talks about One Power's adventures under James Hill, Speedy Hill. So if you joined a Patreon, that's all there. Don't forget the festival, We Have Ways Fest, 11th, 13th, September. Go to wehavewaysfest.co.uk. Buy your tickets there. We'll see you there. Thanks for listening.

53:12Al Murray: Cheerio. Cheerio.

53:21Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in, and that's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that.

53:28Al Murray: Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. We don't just alert. We help stop crime before it starts. Plan starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 60 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Outdoor deterrence plans start at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Is your home wish list just sitting in your cart? Well, get ready to hit checkout because Way Day at Wayfair starts October 24th with up to 80 % off everything home. That new sofa, the rug you've been eyeing, the upgrades you've been putting off, They could all be way less during Wayday.

54:08It's Wayfair's biggest sale of the year, so make your list and mark your calendar. Shop Wayday starting October 24th for up to 80 % off everything home at Wayfair.com.

54:19Al Murray: Wayfair, every style, every home. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling, and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.