One Man's War: Rommel & Gazala (Part 3)

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3:29You've got to understand about managing men. Some men can command and have the common touch, and some men can only command by establishing their authority with their rank. and it takes a good man to do both and some can't do it. You have to win respect and they don't just respect you because you're an officer, they respect you because of who you are and that's the difference. And if you come through the ranks and win your spurs that way, you automatically have that right. My fellows called me Brad. I was known as Brad. When I was a corporal, my troop officer called me Brad and I called him Peter, only when we were together.

4:01He'd been his schoolmaster. He used to lean on me a good deal because I had the experience. Those are the words, again, of Sam Bradshaw, describing his understanding of command and authority. Welcome, everyone, to We Have Ways to Make You Talk with me, Al Murray, and James Holland, of course. And we're looking at the life of one man in the Second World War, Sam Bradshaw, who you interviewed, Jim, many years ago. Yeah, I did. And what a lovely fellow he was. He was one of my favourites. And as I think I said when we were recording this first episode, you know, the thing about him is just, He was just so articulate and moving about it.

4:35And Frank, he obviously had a brilliant memory. He hadn't forgotten anything. It all felt very, very real. He was a young man in a hurry when he went off, and he quickly became quite jaded, as we will discover in the next couple of episodes. But anyway, we left Sam, didn't we, at the beginning of Operation Compass in the last episode, which is the first major British offensive against the Italians in the Western Desert in North Africa, beginning in December 1941. And they obviously, you know, the Western Desert Fort under Dick O 'Connor absolutely rout the Italian 10th Army. What we should also do is tell his story, but we should also pause here and there to kind of consider his own reflections on the experiences and his attitudes to other people and to rank and to the people he came up against.

5:26and not least the Italians, which I think is kind of interesting. I mean, in the last episode, we touched on that the Italians don't, they don't really put up much of a fight and they've got their lovely leather luggage and their loafers and they're ready to leave after compass. There is something slightly different about the British attitude to the Italians because after all, they had been allies in the previous war, hadn't they? You know, it's not like the Germans where it's all right, you want it again, do you? That sort of attitude, it's, oh, you've changed sides, have you? And there is a sense of betrayal, isn't there?

5:58And a sense of... Stabbing her back. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Italy, soon after the First World War, becomes to resent its position amongst the world powers, doesn't it? Because it feels it's been sort of double-crossed by its senior partners in the alliance against the Central European powers. But, you know, that doesn't mean... That doesn't translate to a British point of view where you think, well, hang on a minute. I thought we were pals. and we're not it's interesting isn't it because sam doesn't he's not he's not really you know he's shocked by what he sees isn't he because he sees infantry bayonetting italians through their tents and stuff doesn't he yes and and he he thinks that that it's his resentment has led to a kind of degree of cruelty he thinks will slightly crosses crosses the line but you know he but he also points out that you know lots of bad things do happen and he always and i remember him saying that you know it didn't take much you know someone's brother's been killed or something so they want revenge and it kind of percolates through and and he and it and i remember him talking about this this time where you know when when um he was in to brook at the end of the gazala battles and you know he remembers being attacked by stukas and they hit a hospital and you know whether they were diving on it deliberately or not or just hit it you know who knows but but as far as they're concerned it was deliberate and it was you know proves that they're all evil Nazi bastards and all the rest of it.

7:18And one Stuka gets hit and the pilot bails out, but he's shot to pieces by the Aussies below and killed before he hits the ground. You know, he's philosophical about this. He says in wartime, you have to make your own rules and often you make them according to the way you're dealt with yourself. That was a terrible thing. That sense of reciprocity in combat, I think is very interesting, isn't it? If they treat you badly, if they cross the line well, then we'll give it back to you. You can look at, say in Normandy where the Canadians have no time for the SS because men are murdered and they you know Abed Arden you know once word about that gets round the Canadians stop taking prisoners and this sort of idea of reciprocity is I think all part of it he recognizes though if you're young as a young man you're hardy and you can cope and you can handle it and you've the emotional resources to handle it he says nothing is too difficult it's amazing how you can adjust to your conditions and that is i think that's another thing you see in the story of of combat of wars it's amazing what people get used to and amazing how they blunt themselves to to what's around them but but he's interesting because he's also got the wit to take note of others more experienced than him he recognizes that and recognizes that you know the more skilled he is as a soldier and a tank man the better his chances are of survival you know that reminded me a little bit of kind of you know stanley christopherson do you remember him and and you know it's all been locks when they first go out to palestine and then he you know they get out and they train on tanks and suddenly they're at um alum health and he thinks oh this is serious you know we need to actually get with it and and really try hard um and and it's kind of the same same level and and he's conscious of there's one fellow in the in the in the you know in the in the squadron who's a regular soldier he's also from liverpool he's a fine athlete he's a big giant of a man brilliant sportsman, cricket, rugby, you know, everything.

9:11And he says... He was a wonderful gunner. Probably had the best knowledge of guns in the regiment. He could tell you about ballistics. When I was in action with him, he was a troop commander like I was in the same troop. I used to watch his gunnery. When we saw a German tank go up, we knew he was responsible. I used to say, that's Doey again. His name was Baker, so we called him Doey. You're not going to get a palm door for that nickname, I'm afraid.

9:39no definitely not but anyway anyway after operation compass you know the next sort of major engagement is obviously there's fighting all the time there's patrol workers all that kind of stuff he did talk about being re-equipped with crusaders in june 1941 yeah um and initially he's not sure he thinks they he thinks they look great and he likes a speed and you know there's more room than some of the tanks he's been in before and all the rest of it but he feels they're not quite up to the job and hadn't been properly tested and two weeks after getting them they start getting suspension problems you know sometimes suspension just breaks so then the fitters come up and they have to reinforce them with suspension suspension with steel bars and they first go into action with them during operation battle acts which is in june 1941 so they barely had them and barely had time to train on them before they're in action and and he says it was chaotic it was terrible there were three regiments attacked and we've been told by reconnaissance that there were no enemy opposition.

10:34We made a frontal attack with 52 tanks at the battle line and the tanks were going up left and right and centre like a steam hammer had hit them. The Crusader you know, gets a bad press, let's be honest as a tank, as a piece of kit. But it does look cool. And it's got it does not have the Liberty engine, which is the First World War era engine that there happened to be absolutely stacks of still kicking around for the First World War and it's that idea that that you use. It's what you've got. It's what you've got, but it's underpowered, essentially. So there's a, you know, until really they iron that out and stick meteors, which are downgraded Merlins in British tanks, there's this endless problem.

11:17And it's underarmed, which we talked about, I think, in the first episode, the armament gap that exists. But he survives Battle X, doesn't he? He does. I mean, he does also say a lot of the officers that have been moved into the Royal Tank Regiment had come from cavalry units. And they're still kind of thinking like horsemen, which is why they get these sort of cavalry-esque charges. There's a reshuffle at the top with the Western Desert Force. So Wavell is out, despite his ability to recite poetry. What were they thinking? And despite his comatose presence in meetings. Oh, man. And his wife doesn't approve of anyone as well.

11:58Well, I know that feeling.

12:08but enter the orc um orkinlet comes in and with that you have the creation of the eighth army and the refs desert air force so it's it's the it's the classic british thing to do have a bit of a reshuffle rebadge people reinvent people out with the old boss in with the new boss see what you can get and then are following that following that reorganization you get operation crusader which is in November 21st is when the kit fighting kicks off for six RTR. And we looked at the jock columns and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Well, and of course, the 21st of November is when Sam gets wounded. And actually, we left the last episode, didn't we, with him still in the hospital.

12:48We should probably finish off that story now we've got there chronologically and giving him a bit of background and all the rest of it. But he hears, while he's still in that American hospital, he hears that most of his brigade has been wiped out. And he's then put on another train with Red Cross markings and no lights, and it's full of wounded, all nationalities. So it really is properly Duke, you know, Indians, South Africans, you know, you name it, they're all there. And all through the night, people are screaming and shouting for orderlies, for water for pain relief and no one ever comes and lots of people are cursing and sort of shouting over my gun i'll bloody shoot the bastards and all this kind of stuff um but anyway eventually eventually they reach the suez canal and the stretchers are taken off the train and they're laid out by the road for the ambulances the ambulance come up put them you know they're slotted in they have those sort of slots in the back of the back of those humbers and chevrolets and what have you.

13:46And they're taken to a tented hospital and there Sam is greeted by nuns. And they see that Sam's got a crucifix on and they ask him if he's Catholic. So he says, yes, yes, he is. And they say, are you badly wounded? And Sam says, yeah, I reckon I am. And the nun says, have you had a difficult time? And Sam says, you could say that. And you'll be all right now. He's in a very bad way, isn't he? He's lost loads of weight. His hair's falling out. The wound is really bad. He needs a new dressing every day. And he's basically got a great big hole in his leg as well as a wound in his side. And the shrapnel that struck him had almost gone right through his leg.

14:29And they'd cut it out from the other side. They'd cut him open the other side to get it out rather than fish it out the way it went in. I mean, ow. Oh, God. And, you know, that's all done under not ideal circumstances in a field hospital. So that's proper battlefield medicine right there. And he says, the nurse explained that they couldn't let it heal up with a hole behind it. So they had to put a dressing on with Vaseline, packing it in until gradually it healed from the back. Christ, it was terrible. They used to have to hold me on the bed. I used to dread it. It took about 10 minutes. I would see a go to the dressing cabinet and then the orderlies would come and hold me down.

15:04God, it was terrible. And you can see why he thought he had a blighty wound if he's been that badly hurt, why he thought maybe I'm going home. Well, yeah, you can also see why he's scarred card psychologically as well as physically, can't you? Yeah. And so he's in hospital over Christmas of 1941. And gradually he starts to recover and gets up on one leg and then eventually he can put his weight on both, stand properly. He's in hospital for 12 weeks. I mean, three months in hospital. I mean, you'd go crackers, wouldn't you? I'm not surprised with those wounds. Aren't you impressed by how that isn't a blighty wound?

15:39I mean, what they're doing to keep people in theatre. I'm amazed. And it also indicates that the British Army, after all, what it really wants, once it's trained you, if it thinks it can get you upright and pointing in the right direction, they'll use you one way or another. They will do what they can to get you back. They've invested in him as a tank crewman. They're going to bloody well going to use him. Rather than stick him on a ship and send him home to get better as well, they're going to do it here. Interestingly, when he's discharged, he's given the chance to go to a convalescence hospital He's warned, warned off it.

16:10He wants to go back to 6RTR, doesn't he? Because it's endless PT and then you're sent somewhere else. And he doesn't want that, does he? So he's sent before the colonel, the colonel MO. He says, you know, please let me join my mates. And he says, well, you know, OK, we can do that. But just at least have five days leave in Cairo first. So he goes, OK, fine. So he goes off with one of his mates. He's made in hospital. He's also on the way out. So he has five days in Cairo having larks and what have you. And then he heads back to the depot in Cabrit, which of course is where the SAS were training and everything, and where six RTR are currently based.

16:49Yeah. And he says, that was the tragic part. The faces I had known were almost all gone. That was really devastating. I mean, that's an interesting thing is that he wants to go back to the regiment, but he must have known virtually everyone was gone. He's been told it's been wiped out. He's been told it's been destroyed. and yet that's the thing he's that's the thing he regards as his home i mean it's a very it's very difficult isn't it but he gets into trouble doesn't he jim oh it's absolutely this is just it's hard to believe this episode um but but you also know it's true and this this goes down to these individual officers and some are martinettes and somehow they're trying to throw their weight around and some are very empathetic some think that the way to do it is to have the iron rod of discipline which is usually to make up for their own personal shortcomings and this is what happens here so he's got this new squadron ceo who's obviously trying to he's probably i don't know i'm guessing because he didn't say it but but you know perhaps he was promoted and he's trying to kind of impose himself sam's come back he's this veteran he knows it all all the rest of it and so this is sam's having a drink of his mates he's told to report to squadron see her the next day and the major tells him he's being charged for losing his pistol on active service and sam can't believe it because you know what and he goes yeah you know you you were in the desert and you you lost your pistol it says here on your report that you were you arrived unarmed you know what happened and he says well you know i was i was wounded and you know i was in really big trouble and i was eventually picked up and i don't know where my pistol was but you know i was given a shot of morphine and when I woke up it wasn't there yeah and and and Sam says on my record it will be in red that I lost my arms on active service people might interpret that like I've thrown them away this is a blight on my character and the major goes you're found guilty a good soldier never loses his arms what have you got to say are you suggesting I'm not a good soldier sir and the major just says march him out and find him three pounds you know and he thinks that's the end of the matter but sam is absolutely fuming and he's still fuming the next day he can't get over this slide he just thinks hang on a minute you know i've done nothing but my duty i've tried to be a really good soldier uh um you know i've just been wounded i i've i've asked to come back and rejoin this this unit and you're punishing me for something that is completely beyond my control and you know he's absolutely just steaming at the injustice of this so he goes in and sees the the major again and says i'm reverting to the rank of trooper and the major goes that's just being stupid and sam replies i know there are a lot of stupid things being done at the moment so i'm going to play silly boogers like other people there's no need for that kind of talk remember who you're speaking to and treat me with respect anyway so he leaves and then the sergeant major takes him aside and says you know don't be an idiot you're a senior nco this guy's a twat just just let it go over your head before you know it you'll be a sergeant and before you know that you know before you know it again you'll get a commissioner in the field he says just just think about it and sam said you know sam is yeah what is he 21 you know he's young and he's he's really really pissed off about this so he says i've i've thought about it they won't change my record they've made me into a bad soldier so i'm going to be a bad soldier and he tears off his stripes it's extraordinary isn't it it's not long before he's he's picked up by a new lieutenant who called peter phelps and he's new to the to the regiment and he's a former school teacher from bath he's much more empathetic recognizes that that sam has got a bucket load of of experience that he's a bright young man and that he's been treated badly so he says says look come on i know you've been treated badly i can't do anything about your record but but don't don't don't throw this away i could really use your help come come and work with me be my radio man in my tank and uh you know we'll work together and you can help train my troop sam realizes he's being a bit truculent so they do shake hands and and he becomes the lieutenant's radio operator and he quickly ensures he's promoted and then gets up to sergeant in no time so there's an officer um earning his respect rather than demanding it and the whereas the major is saying there's a lot of stupid things being done at the moment so i'm going to play silly buggers i mean saying that that saying that to a senior officer or your commanding officer is is going some isn't it Yeah, but you're young and you're proud and you feel you've been done an unnecessary injustice and you are being truculent.

21:12But he has been done injustice. I think it's terribly unfair, all that. Pretty soon, 6RTR are posted to the front at Gazala. We're rolling on because Crusader is a Pyrrhic victory, really, isn't it? They do well, but they get as far as they possibly can. In the combat we described, the cost is too great. And the Germans also figure out that they have the upper hand in terms of the armament gap that exists at this point. You know, the window is beginning to close because the six-pounder anti-tank gun will be coming online very, very shortly in the events we're talking about. But in late March 1942, they're back at the front.

21:48After Crusader, they've only got one tank left. So they've had to rebuild completely. I mean, it's extraordinary, isn't it? take that kind of kicking and pick yourself up and carry on. It's of a different order, isn't it, to the defeat in France, isn't it? Because the defeat in France is a sort of like a lightning strike, isn't it? Whereas this is combat with doctrine and people working out what to do and figuring out how to take the Germans on and trying to fight a mobile mechanized war properly. And it hasn't panned out. A siege of Tobruk is lifted, so British morale is doing all right. and German and Italian forces have been pushed back after Crusade over 300 miles.

22:29So as far as Alagilia, where Rommel had begun in North Africa the previous February. So this is a British victory that lasts, the spoils of which last a couple of months because it's the 21st of January 1942 that the Germans decide to counterattack. We talked before about Rommel's very efficient Y service. So he's quite good at listening in on British phone calls. And he's also, soon to come online is the trickle of information from the good source as well, Bonifela's. The British, however, are pushed back to this place called Gazala, which is almost at Tobruk. Everything they've achieved in Crusader, gone, squandered.

23:11Basically, they've got to the Gazala line. We talked about this in previous podcasts. I think when we were doing the Alamein series, weren't we, we talked about the Gazala line and what a shower it was. And clearly the most sensible thing to do is not build a line in the desert because at this point it's outflankable. So how long should your line be? And how do you do it? And what they do is they create this line which is infantry brigades protected by mines and wire, not linked to the next one. And these are called boxes and they're not linked to the next one. And everyone's having slight arguments about who should do what because Cunningham's been sacked and Neil Ritchie's been promoted and he's a desk waller from Cairo working under Orkinlec and he doesn't really have their respect so everyone's sort of having their two pennies it's a bit like being on a cricket field where you haven't got a very strong character and everyone's saying what the fielding position should be it's that kind of thing and uh except obviously a lot more serious and um clearly what they should have done is just reinforced to Brook which after all had held out for 242 days Rommel would not be able to bypass this and you've got a port that's accessible from the sea and be resupplied and all the rest of it they have to turn and face this and they would have done nothing so it's a terrible terrible mistake and nor do they take the offensive so they're doing something and nothing because if you're going on the defensive get behind to brook where the defenses are already really good but if not go on the offensive and strike at Rommel but they don't so they do this halfway house of this gazala line of its boxes and it's an absolute shower And on the morning of the 26th of May, 1942, the Africa Corps sweep round to the south, out flanking the, you know, 35 miles or whatever it is of the Gazala Line, running straight into the French.

24:52You're out on a limb at Bir Hakeem. The Italians attack in the north, and it's an absolute mess up. And all the armour is behind these boxes in, you know, mobile units. What they're thinking is the German-Italians are going to attack, they'll repel them, and then the armour will burst through and crush them. But of course, it just doesn't work like that. And Rommel starts sweeping around the back and towards Knightsbridge, this area on the map, this sort of marshalling area of the armoured corps, codenamed Knightsbridge, on the 11th of June. And basically, it's like a sort of massive giant sandwich.

25:28What it allows Rommel to do is defeat each piece of 8th Army in detail. He can bring everything to bear on, say, any formation he wants. He can bring everything to bear on, destroy that, move on to the next one. and that because they're not properly interconnected, they can't come to each other's aid. Which is exactly how they defeat the French in 1940, by the way. Yeah, they've offered themselves up to be defeated, really, at the Gazala Line. No two ways about it. It is an absolute disaster, isn't it, for the British. The nadir, really, of British fortunes in the desert. It's the nadir of the British army in the war in the West.

26:04Absolutely no question about it. And in the meantime, what's happened to six RTRs, They've been sort of broken up, haven't they? And they're going to be filling gaps. And Sam Bradshaw regards this. He says, we consider this an insult, right? And then that plan is cancelled and they're re-equipped with Grants and Hunnies, which are the M3 chassis tank, which has a twin gun arrangement where there's a turret on top with a 37mm cannon thing and then a 75mm sort of field gun in the hull. they're roomy and spacious compared to British types. When the British soldiers get these they go on about how roomy these things are.

26:41And they are sort of big, bulky, upright, high profile tank kind of modelled on a French idea where you have two guns, a field gun and a cannon in them. Like, you know, the Americans have looked at what the French are doing. And then the Honey, which is the Stuart which is the smaller recce tank which is basically nice and quick. And it's called a Honey because it starts every time, isn't it? That's why they call it honey, because it's reliable. And these are regarded throughout, aren't they, both these types as a real improvement on what's gone before, without a doubt. And the 75 mil that the grant has got, you can stand off and shell people with that in a way that you couldn't with the two-pounder and the Crusader and its predecessors, or the Matilda.

27:25It's actually a more viable battlefield weapon in the battlefield they're in. First RTR and six RTR lined up in readiness as Rommel sweeps towards this Knightsbridge lozenge on the 11th of June. Yes. First RTL, they received three more grants that evening all by American crews. Isn't that amazing? First American ground troops in the war to fight the Germans in the war. There's your pub quiz question. In which battle are the first American troops fighting against the Germans in the whole of the Second World War? That's very good. I bet they wish they hadn't.

28:02gee how bad can it be but nothing happens throughout the night rommel brings his sort of legend of unstoppability with him and by the time he's got to knightsbridge he seems to be unstoppable doesn't he even though actually he's kind of beginning to run on fumes and he's burning through people and stuff at quite the rate it's not quite as roses it makes out yeah it's the problem isn't it they know that they're going to be up against the combined armor and anti-tank guns of the Italian Tresti, who are the Italians who will fight, and the 15th Panzer Division as well, plus 90th light behind them.

28:33So basically the Afrika Korps are coming at Knightsbridge from both sides and squeezing them like a vice. This is an epic encounter. First and six RTR, they come under heavy attack at 0630 the next morning, and we will take a break there to tell you how that then proceeds.

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30:33Welcome back to We Have Ways to Make You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland for our third episode in the life of Sam Bratchel, Sam Bratchel's War. And for those in the know, we're about to talk about the Knightsbridge battle. For those who don't know, buckle in because this is very unpleasant. Particularly if you're a fan of people in khaki drill shorts. So it's the 12th of June now, isn't it? 0630 as the Germans and the Italians get stuck in, don't they? Fire starts coming on 1st of 6 RTR from 288s and 105mm field guns and 70 tanks straight away. I mean, there's no cover. There's nowhere to hide.

31:11There's nowhere to get away from it. You're sort of in these conglomerations of troops on you. And many of the 6 RTR guys are wounded by shelling. One tank's completely destroyed, which bursts into flames. And there it is, burning with black smoke pouring out of it. Everyone can see it. That's the thing. Everything's laid bare in this environment. Meanwhile, 21 Panzer are approaching behind, attacking the rear of 7th Armour Division. And the tanks of the 22nd Armour Brigade, who are the northwest of Knightsbridge, they get smashed up. They get mauled by 21st Panzer. German Armour and artillery are really crushing the Knightsbridge position in a vice.

31:47with armour and artillery, meaning there's no way out and the pressure's just going to increase. And they're under attack all day from south, east and west. Oh, completely. I mean, Sam hasn't got a faintest idea of what's going on, nor does anyone. And frankly, nor does many of the commanders in Eighth Army, least of all Neil Ritchie, the Eighth Army commander. There's dust and smoke everywhere. There's a sickening stench of burning tanks. German shells damage to Allied tanks and guns and knock their tracks off it i mean it is absolute mayhem the tank brigade is forced to withdraw northwards which is the only direction open to them and the entire gazala line is now crumbling and and that night from the heights of the riguel ridge escarpment they've withdrawn to sam looks down over the remnants of the british armor dotted throughout the desert and to seize this sort of massive sort of twinkling fires of burning tanks and you know you can feel that the air is thick with smoke and probably with the acrid stench of cordite as well but anyway they're they're done i mean they're done so so now it's the 13th of juni and he and the rest of the regiment set set off what remains of them set off for to brook early the next morning and tank shortage is a massive a massive issue three of the regiment's honeys need urgent overhauling and there's not nothing like enough grants to go around so sam is given the job of taking the tanks to the workshop into brook and is picking up and picking up some replacements he hasn't been into brook since the siege of last year and he's really impressed by its defenses he says it was like a fortress with minefields everywhere and concreted positions and wired up electronically which is precisely why they should have made their position there i mean this is the point uh but anyway he rejoins his regiment once this is all sorted it picks up free chocolate and cigarettes from a naffy wagon en route um and and rejoins them at el adam which is a um airfield just to the kind of southeast of tabrook um but the next day uh this is by now it's night time on the 16th century june um and uh that's when el adam is evacuated and the next day 17th june the panzers route an indian brigade and the 4th armored brigades get particularly damaged including sam 6 rtr which now has no artillery support at all is really down on numbers they battle throughout the afternoon but are massively outgunned and outnumbered by the panzers which in this instance are personally led by rommel and they're forced to retire and this is the last action of the 6th rtr and the 4th Armoured Brigade in Libya, because what they need to do now is scuttle back to the Alamein line.

34:35But that's a long way to go. That's a long, long way to go. What's going on behind the scenes, of course, you know, is that as Sam is leaving El Adam, he's given this order to take 80 vehicles back to Alamein. And he's been up and down the desert road loads of times. He's never paused at Alamein before. He's never given a second thought. No one has until he sees it on a map and he's given the grid reference. and it takes him three days to get there. But this is somewhere everyone's been through on their way west. It's somewhere that everyone's been through and they don't know it. But what's going on behind the scenes is Rommel may well be in pursuit, but this whole thing, this whole Gazala Line offensive of his has been really costly.

35:13This German style of pressing hard, you take losses to achieve it. CF our series on Operation Barbarossa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a trit. And the other thing that's happening is that we talked about, you know, the British have reorganized into 8th Army and the Desert Air Force, is the Desert Air Force is properly organized and is properly figuring, has figured out how to work as a tactical air force. Leapfrogging. It's leapfrogging its way back. So it's moving its air crew back, its ground crew back, even as sorties fly to further, you know, airfields further in the rear. But what it's doing is hammering Rommel's supply lines, hammering Rommel's line of communication, Not necessarily these people at the front, which is always the complaint to the frontline soldier, why aren't you attacking the things that I can see right in front of me?

36:01They're interdicting behind enemy lines and being very, very effective. And it's really the Desert Air Force who actually win this battle. They save 8th Army from annihilation, is the truth of it. And they do so because it's such a slick operation. So they're fighter planes and they're medium bombers. They're taking off. They're hammering the pursuing Italians and Germans. and as you say their supply lines too and their oil trucks and all the rest of it and then and then while they're airborne their ground crews are packing everything up and going and leap going back 10 miles it might only be 10 miles and then creating the new airfield so when they come back they land back at this new place um and so they're able to just keep this pressure on that means they're spending much more time over the target because they're keeping themselves really close to the front and it's incredibly effective and the and the Luftwaffe and the rego aeronautica which is the Italian Air Force, aren't as strong as the RAF here.

36:52This is an absolute deciding factor, very much to the good of 8th Army. But what it means is that by the 26th of June, SAM and 6RTR are behind the Alamein line, which is only 60 miles west of Alexandria, so it's really a long way into Egypt. And the key thing about the Alamein line is it does, it can't be outflanked because 45 miles or so south from the coast, you've got the Qatar Depression, which you know an odd vehicle could maybe traverse it but but but not more than that you certainly can't do an outflanking sort of lightning charge with the deutsche africa corps or anything like that so it's a very strong position and it's interesting because it's got to be sort of very very low ridges in the north but then as you push south it's got more escarpments and little ridges and and all sorts of things which makes it quite a strong place to defend and a difficult place to attack because the battlefield's going to be congested you don't have the room for the maneuver that Rommel's into.

37:47And he can't defeat you in detail because there you are all in one big sort of plug. There's lots of rumors, obviously, that here come the enemy. There's 2 ,000 tanks come in and 1 ,000 are reporting to be approaching, but they don't show. The following morning, on the 27th, there's just 12 enemy tanks sighted at dawn. B squadron opens fire at them. The enemy respond with tanks, artillery anti-tank guns, etc. And several grants are knocked out. But the regiment withdraws to hold down positions. They're shelled later. that afternoon and then are withdrawn with 1st and 8th Royal Tank Regiment. And they spend the rest of the day refueling, re-equipping, hurrying up and waiting for something to happen.

38:24But the thing is, Rommel's attack, yes, there were those 12 tanks at dawn, but Rommel, by this point, has attrited himself. Yes, he's done well. And yes, he's had the 8th Army on the run. But the price is that he now only has 37 tanks left. In the whole of the Africa Corps. He's unable to finish the job. He's unable to get any further and get through the line. And rather than a sort of big German splashy breakthrough, you've got an attritional battle where the British can stop him and soak up their losses and he can't afford the losses he's experienced. The Desert Fox has outfoxed himself. and and the next sort of couple of days it's all a bit inconclusive and attritional and there's not much action on the 1st of july but they still lose five more grants the next day on the 2nd of july during the big battle with the 90th light division which they do um inflict a huge amount of damage upon it has to be said the orc orkin lake wants to plan another battling ram against the enemy straight away and decides to launch a strike at the italians in the center of the axis line which is mainly conducted by the 5th Indian Division and the New Zealanders plus the 2nd and 22nd Armoured Brigades which by this point includes Sam's 6th RTR.

39:39So 6th RTR has now merged with 1RTR because both are so badly depleted after the recent battles and journalist Alan Moorhead who we've mentioned a couple of times he's watching the RTR's activity from Alam Nile which is one of the very low ridges in the middle of the Alamein line and he says he was hot and there was no shade sitting there in the sun smoking and drinking a mug of tea and occasionally looking through binoculars you felt as though you were sitting in a grandstand waiting for a cup tie to begin and the planned operation uh which becomes known as the first battle of Rewaiset the Rewaiset Ridge begins during the night of the 14th of July and the early successes against the Italian divisions are short-lived the New Zealanders in the dark bypass a panzer leaguer and some germany infantry positions and these tanks then attack unprotected new zealanders as it starts to get light the following morning from behind and 350 men are captured a second armor try to try to help but get bogged down in a minefield so sam and the rest of b squadron try in vain to find gaps through the mines and don't really get there and uh joe maidly who's a who's an aussie finally fighting there goes oh it was a hell of a scrap all day dive bomb shell bullets everywhere and six rtr is one of the first armored units to try and help as a panzer army counter-attack and uh they come under really really intense fire but sam and his fellows still managed to retaliate against the enemy vehicles and infantry and although rt six rtr are forced back through the minefield gap later that that evening they do manage to knock out two more enemy tanks silence a big self-propelled gun uh and although later grant is lost they withdraw to reserve positions well behind the front line over a thousand men are lost in the fighting that day i mean this is really attritional stuff this is the first battle of alamein so the famous alamein battle with montgomery and everything that's the second battle of alamein this is the first battle fought you know throughout much of july in in sort of pretty big big phases and of course rt6 rti has once again taken a hammering it's taken a hammering in the Crusader battle.

41:47It's taken a hammering in the Fall of Tobruk battle, Gazala battle. And it's taken a hammering here. And now it's only got 12 tanks left out of 52. And Sam says, you know, admits that this is pretty tough, doesn't he? Yeah, he says, we did feel low. The regiment had almost ceased to exist. Although I think we'd also lost a lot of confidence in the commanders. Gazala had been a mess. One way of looking at it, certainly. I mean, it's that summer of fiasco on the part of the British, isn't it? Poor decisions. And it's bad luck what happens to the Kiwis, you know, missing those Germans and ending up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

42:23But that is what happens. That's the run of the green in battle, isn't it? Is that no one knows where they are. No one knows. No one knows. No one knows. Most people in the wrong place all the time. Anyway, we hope you've enjoyed that episode. I have to say, it's really, really fascinating, his sort of, his approach to it all and his candor about it. Because, you know, Jim, when you spoke to him, you got a lot more out of him than very often you might think. His feelings about talking about fear and talking about leadership and all that sort of stuff. Well, I think we're all in for a treat in the next episode because there's some really great stuff that he talks about.

43:02In our final episode with Sam, where we'll be finishing off his time in North Africa, which actually is coming to a close fairly soon. and then we'll be moving to Italy where he's very heavily involved before he gets wounded again and again really badly and eventually gets home. Well, we'll take it from there. I mean, it's because his war still isn't done even when he finally gets back to Liverpool. He's got a little way to go yet. If you need to hear that now, then it's dead simple. What you do is you become a Patreon member at the We Have Ways of Making You Talk Patreon and you can listen to this immediately, ad-free.

43:35There's ticket offers. there's live casts there's audio books tons of that sort of stuff to go with a lot of this material and we look forward to you joining us there we'll see you soon cheerio cheerio cheerio

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