Fit for TV: The Reality of The Biggest Loser

0:00Rebecca Lavoie:I'm Rebecca Lavoie, and this is You Can't Make This Up.

0:15Rebecca Lavoie:You Can't Make This Up is the podcast where we uncover the true stories behind your favorite Netflix documentaries and films. On today's episode, we take a closer look at the Netflix documentary series Fit for TV, the reality of the biggest loser. You can't have a show based on weight loss that's safe. Today we're talking to executive producer Mike Gasparro and director Skye Borgman. NBC struck ratings gold when it premiered a new kind of reality show, one in which obese contestants competed to lose the most amount of weight. Known for its hard-driving trainers, heartwarming stories, and jaw-dropping transformations, The Biggest Loser became an inspirational phenomenon.

0:56Rebecca Lavoie:on. But behind the scenes, there was conflict about whether the extreme measures risk damaging the player's physical and mental health. In the Netflix series Fit for TV, the reality of the Biggest Loser, former contestants, producers, and stars of the show talk about what went into making the revolutionary weight loss competition. It reveals the tensions between medical staff and showrunners about the lengths players were pushed to. It also explores the Biggest Loser's legacy and the long-term effects on those who played the game. Achieving a dramatic weight loss transformation was so valuable to people that they were willing to do anything that they had to, to achieve it.

1:49Rebecca Lavoie:And I'm joined now by director Skye Borgman and executive producer, Mike Gasparro. Welcome back to You Can't Make This Up. Thank you. It's great to be here. Skye, The Biggest Loser confronted the issue of obesity, not just causes and treatments, but what it's like to be a large person in America. Just the language people use about their own weight can be so loaded and offensive sometimes. I'm fat, I'm plus-sized, I'm body positive, depending on who's the receiver, right? Or even medical terms like obese. How did you think about that when you were making this documentary? It's hard because, you know, I've grown up and sort of been confronted with all this different language.

2:27And really, in the past 10 years, I've been thinking about my own language and language that I use and trying to change language. And so how to address this was something that was really at the top of my mind. And what I found that by talking with Aubrey Gordon and what she wants to use, the language that she wants to use, the language that the contestants who participated in The Biggest Loser, that they want to use, that's really what led our language skills and our ability to sort of talk to people. So I really kind of put it in their hands. It's still a struggle. I mean, changing your language, knowing that the languages that you're using may be offensive, may be pandering, is a tough thing to kind of come to grips with.

3:10So it was really great to be able to talk to people openly about it and really examine how we talk about different body shapes.

3:19Rebecca Lavoie:Mike, when David Broom approached NBC, what was his vision for this show? I would say that there were, it wasn't just David Broom. There was a bunch of different people that had the idea, David being one of them. You know, it was a different time, early 2000s, I think, that NBC probably was looking for something in health and wellness and reached out to a few different producers and said, hey, can we do this? And then, you know, they brought Dr. H up into the loop and he sort of mapped out what he thought could be possible. So I think it was a bunch of people that came up with the idea. And then it took off and made everybody successful.

4:01Rebecca Lavoie:Can you talk a little bit, Mike, about the fact that it seemed like they didn't know what they were making at the beginning? Like, is it being played for laughs? Is it being played to, you know, stroke the emotional heartstrings? Like, what is this show? Is that the case? I think it just depends on who you talk to. You know, I think they were making television, for starters. I think that some of them believed that they were doing something good and still do. And, you know, I think part of that's true. But at the end of the day, it's television and it's became a massive, massive global hit for NBC.

4:36And when things become successful, and I think it ran for, what was it, 18 seasons, I think they just, you know, they may have gone into it with like, okay, how do we make something around fitness an issue in America? And I think there was part like, okay, this needs to be entertaining and There's going to be some funny elements to it. And they kind of just rode the wave. So I don't know if they came in with a specific agenda, but I think it kind of just morphed into something.

5:04Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. Sky, millions and millions of people watch this show, myself included, when it first came out, the first few seasons of it. And I'm wondering what you think. Was this a hit because people wanted to see somebody get yelled at while working out? Or because we'd hear about these emotional journeys? Or because it was a competition that came down to numbers? every week? I think it's a little bit of all those things. I know I watched a few episodes, a few seasons even. And before we started, I was talking to friends of mine who were of the generation who may have watched The Biggest Loser when it was on television and talked to people who watched it.

5:40I said, well, why did you watch it? And most of them said that they watched it for the inspirational stories because they felt like if these people can do it, so can I. And I think there were just some blinders that were put on about how this was happening and the ways that these people were being scrutinized, that they were being yelled at, that they were being forced to do something that wasn't particularly healthy. And so I think that there was mostly an inspirational aspect to why people were watching it. I think there was a part of it. I don't know that they loved seeing people yelled at.

6:13What I think they loved is seeing people transform. And everybody talks about transformation on this show. The creators talk about transformation. The contestants talk about transformation. And I think that's what was really inspiring to people.

6:26Rebecca Lavoie:Mike, to many viewers and to some of the people on the show, it's almost like these television contestants were overweight because of a character flaw, right? You know, fat people are fat because of behavior, because of choices. And now they're getting their butts kicked in the gym and being screamed at, which seems kind of unfair to me. What do you think? Yeah, I think that was what was great about, you know, our series and the way we went into it and, you know, the way Sky interviewed the contestants was it was there was something behind each one of them and why they ended up in the situation that they were in, like Tracy or Danny, you know, or Joelle.

7:06There's, you know, the show wasn't built to break down the psychological stuff that was happening. It was literally just like, you're big, do this. Here's the transformation. But there are real stories that I think people are going to relate to of where people are at in their lives and why they chose to be on the show. And I think that to me is the most interesting part of the show is really learning about some of these contestants and, you know, how they got there and how relatable they are and, you know, what they do with themselves, you know, to get themselves to a place that they feel good about.

7:36Rebecca Lavoie:Sky, one of your contributors talked about that stigma when they talked about the temptation challenges. You know, the message seemed to be that these people wouldn't be able to control themselves in a room full of food. And that's not a scene that's going to change negative perceptions about people with weight issues, right? Right. I mean, I think it reinforces negative perceptions about people with weight issues, which are completely untrue. And I also feel like the situations that these challenges that were happening are not real world at all. The idea is that fat people cannot be trusted around food.

8:12It's designed to make you draw conclusions about the contestant's character based on what you see them eat on camera in a five minute period. There's never going to be a time when a person is put into a room filled with donuts from floor to ceiling and encouraged by a team of people, a production team of people that are going to say, go in, eat as much as you can. And they're being told kind of what to do. So that's it's not a real world situation at all.

8:43Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. What did you learn about the casting process for The Biggest Loser Sky? What were the producers looking for season to season when they had these thousands and thousands of applications? I mean, again, it depends a little bit on who you ask and on what season you're in, right? I mean, you can clearly see an escalation of size of people from season one to season 15, 16, 17, 18, right? You see people getting bigger. And with that, you also see some much bigger health risks that these people are being put into. We were not looking for people who were overweight and happy. There's a lot of them.

9:19That's fine. We were looking for people who were overweight and unhappy. And once we tapped into finding those contestants, we realized there were literally millions. Finding the right contestant started with a great story. I think they were looking for people who are dynamic. I think they're looking for people who are attractive. I think they're looking for people who are overweight and who continue to be more and more overweight as the seasons go on.

9:48Rebecca Lavoie:Is it fair to say you think they were looking for people to build storylines around, like characters, like happens in other reality television? No question about it. I mean, they're looking for people who are going to bring the drama to the TV screen. Yeah. Yeah, I think something we found too, and you hit it right on the head, was that the looking good when the transformation happens, like understanding what that is going to be on the other side. And a lot of the people that we talk to and that you see, they were former athletes or in some way active. Like there was a blueprint to this so that they could see where it was going.

10:18And they had those people that they figured were going to make it through long haul. And then you had the entertainment value of it as well.

10:28Rebecca Lavoie:one of the more interesting people that appears on screen is dr robert huizenga who was the show's medical consultant how did he originally see himself influencing the show well again if you ask him he created the show yeah but he's fascinating and his his family origin story is fascinating, you know, and he was, you know, a Hollywood doctor, but he was there early on, you know, he was a doctor for the Raiders back in the eighties. So that blueprint of what they did with football players and how they train them, he took that same system and put it into the show. So the blueprint and what did he say, Sky?

11:10He, he, it was almost like a, um, it was like an experiment, not experiment. I don't know if that's the right word, but he looked at it in a specific way of like, if I put this specific schedule together, this regimen, all these things, this is what it's going to end up being. And it was kind of almost like an experiment for him where he's like, he took it and this is what they did. And as long as they work within this, you are going to see results. So for him, he feels like a big part of the creation of the show. And I think he also sees that it went off the rails and it became a TV spectacle.

11:40And he understands that. And I think he tried to fight against that along the way. Yeah. But he was so into exercise and all up until this point, right, everything had been about diet and still is. I mean, look, all of the research shows that it's diet that is the most effective in losing weight. But he really wanted to prove because he'd come from this professional sports area that exercise can be as powerful as diet. And to put these people through extreme exercise regimens is going to drop the weight. And he was able to do that. I don't know how attainable that is for your average person, but it was something that was possible.

12:15Rebecca Lavoie:Right. It also occurs to me that he was the doctor for the Raiders. He was a doctor to Hollywood. He was about sort of keeping people OK to do their work. Right. It's like that seems to be where he comes from. I'm wondering if you can talk to me about the friction between the trainers and the medical staff on the show. Yeah, people were a little bit, I mean, Huizenga was the most open about it. People were a little bit careful in talking about it. But I think that there were two different agendas going on. I pretty much said I was going to quit unless I got to talk to the trainers. So they would force them to come in and I'd give my little half an hour speech.

12:52And maybe some things changed, not as much as I would like. You know, he was the doctor of the show. A lot of people in the medical profession, some might say they have a God complex. and maybe Dr. Huizenga is no different. Look, Dr. H cared about people a lot. I think Bob Harper cared about people a lot. I think everybody really cared about the contestants. But Bob's cares probably existed a little bit more in, if I can get this person down in weight, they're going to be happier no matter what that is. And Dr. Huizenga's concerns were more, I want this person to be healthy and maybe they don't have to drop 20 pounds.

13:31But then there's this competition element, too, where every single contestant feels like they want to win. And whatever winning means, whether that's winning for the$250 ,000, whether that's winning in dropping the amount of weight so you feel good about yourself so they can go back to their lives at home, or whether that winning is just accomplishing something that they maybe haven't been able to accomplish before and maintaining that. But I think the friction was fierce. I think the friction between Jillian and the medical staff was incredibly fierce from what we've heard. And so it was really sort of this friction of what is the best way to have these contestants go about doing this.

14:10Rebecca Lavoie:Mike, you're a producer. What is the role of the producer supposed to be in this? I mean, it seems like some people said that they favored good television over good health, that they, you know, sometimes did ignore Dr. H and sort of let this all play out. What is the role supposed to be? On The Biggest Loser, not on Fit for TV? Just, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I think it's keeping the train on the tracks and delivering a hit show year after year. I I think they're under pressure to do that, I think. And again, they had different producers. There was a massive amount of people on the show. I think that JD was the main person, I would say, throughout the first 12 seasons.

14:49Broom was a different kind of producer where JD, if you would talk to the contestants, everyone knew him. And in his mind, he was making, he was changing people and helping people. And I think Broom has that same perspective as well. But JD was really hands-on. He was there. The contestants talk about him. He was there to really, at the end of the day, make a television show. And it was the biggest thing NBC had. I mean, we talk about it a little bit in the show. It's like everything was the biggest loser. It was like two hours long. They had to continue to up the ante, deliver a hit. So, I mean, I think they wear different hats, different producers.

15:24But at the end of the day, it's keeping this train on the tracks, delivering a hit show and making sure people don't die.

15:30Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. Skye, I want to talk about some of the contestants. We heard from Tracy Jukic from season eight. This season famously started with a surprise one mile race. Tracy's body shut down before the finish line. She had to be medevaced, was in the hospital for days. And I guess her partner also ended up in the hospital. So you had these 16 overweight, mostly sedentary, probably dehydrated people. And they made them run in the heat, partially across sand. And not one, but two people ended up in the hospital. It was horrific. Like no one could have expected that something like that was going to happen.

16:06Rebecca Lavoie:I mean, it seemed to me like everybody could have seen that coming. Yeah, I just feel like there are these times where TV overtakes common sense. You know, I mean, I mean, in no world should they have had all those people running in the circumstances that you just described. Right. Now, you might be able to say, well, we had a medical staff there. And so we were prepared for anything to happen. They had a medical staff on every challenge at every point. They had a medical staff there. Great. But they're still putting people through these circumstances. So I think there's just a lot of tunnel vision when you have a TV show and you're not really thinking about these people's health and well-being.

16:45You're thinking more about how is this going to play on TV? Hmm.

16:50Rebecca Lavoie:Like so many reality show contestants, it's not until later that Tracy realizes she was seen as the villain on the show. What did she actually do to become the villain? Well, she basically just played the game. And we talk about it through episode two is that, you know, she couldn't work out. She was, you know, Dr. H said, you can't work out. You can't be with the trainers. There was that friction. So instead of being with the group and trying to get through it the way other people were doing it, she had to get creative because as we know now, she didn't want to go home. She didn't, she was not in a situation in her home life that was comfortable.

17:28She needed to change her life. So she was desperate. And she basically went the game route. And the audience is not going to know about that. They didn't know about what was happening at her home. The producers, you know, so she became the villain. She became, you know, she's doing this. She's stepping over the line. She's going against the trainers. So she set up as this awful, bad villain. You know, that's what I find so interesting about, you know, the doc and where we were all able to go with these people is to understand, you know, where this person was at in her life and why she made those choices.

17:58Yeah.

17:59Rebecca Lavoie:I mean, in every reality show, like Survivor, for instance, America loves to hate the villain, right? And that person often is the most savvy game player. And of course, it's editing, too. That makes them appear to be the villain. But I'm wondering, Mike, what do you think it was like for Tracy? Because this was a weight loss program. And I'm wondering if you think there was a permission structure to actually make her look worse because of the way America viewed overweight people. Yeah, I mean, it's possible. It's a tricky one. And it's a whole different situation. And when she's a woman, so, you know, they celebrate the like, what's that guy's name on Survivor?

18:38Boston Robb. Boston Robb, yeah. And they're like this, like gamesman and all this stuff. And a woman who's overweight, she's a bad person. She's leaving her kids. Those are some of the comments that were made, that she's left her family to go do this. How selfish of her.

18:54Rebecca Lavoie:When I was on Jay Leno, someone wrote in and said, if I was driving and you got hit, I wouldn't stop. I would not step on the brake if I saw you cross the street. I want to accelerate. She wants to kill you, but she won't use a swear word. I like that thought. It was so bad. I was just like, wow. I was like, wow. My feelings were so hurt. We were living in a different time. And hopefully we evolve. And I think we've evolved since 20 years ago. or whenever that was, and we look at things differently. But yeah, did they have the permission? Were there women producers at that time on the show? I don't know that there were.

19:27I think we only knew of men. So yeah, maybe there was a specific angle, and they're signing their lives away, as they say in episode one, that maybe that's part of why they didn't have too many concerns if someone was hurt.

19:41Rebecca Lavoie:Right. Bob Harper appears on screen a lot in the documentary. He was one of the two trainers. It was prominently featured in The Biggest Loser. And he seemed pretty candid to me. He seemed pretty willing to open up. How do you think he comes across? It's so interesting because I think, like, I have such a love for Bob Harper. And he's intoxicating to watch. And throughout his entire interview, sitting across from him was honestly one of the best interviews I think I've ever had. And I think he actually comes across as pretty sincere. There'd be just like all this stupid shit, candy, cake, cookies, all the things.