The Truth and Tragedy of Moriah Wilson

0:00I'm Rebecca Lavoie, and this is You Can't Make This Up.

0:15You Can't Make This Up is the podcast where we uncover the true stories behind your favorite Netflix documentaries and films. On today's episode, we take a closer look at the Netflix documentary film The Truth and Tragedy of Mariah Wilson. And then within days of her being born, I was sitting on the couch listening to a Sean Colvin song, and the song made me think that she's going to leave me someday. Today, we're talking to director Marina Zinovich and producer Evan Hayes. Mariah Wilson was chasing her dream of becoming a champion cyclist, winning contests across the country, and making lasting connections with people along the way.

0:50In 2022, after dinner with a fellow cyclist, Mariah was shot by the man's jealous girlfriend, who then tried to escape by fleeing the country, getting plastic surgery, and living under her sister's name. But for those who knew her, the story always remained focused on Mariah's extraordinary life and not her violent death. The Netflix documentary film The Truth and Tragedy of Mariah Wilson goes beyond the headlines and zooms in on the life of the woman lost in a sensational murder case. We hear Mariah's family and friends discuss who shaped her life, what motivated her passion for cycling, and how her loss has affected them.

1:27It recounts how authorities caught and convicted Caitlin Armstrong for the murder, but the film always keeps Mariah at its center, portraying her as an inspiration, not a victim. Whenever we make choices and they have negative consequences, we can't just walk away. It's about what's right and wrong and being held accountable. It was just such a senseless crime.

2:04And I'm joined now by director Marina Zinovich and producer Evan Hayes. Both of you, welcome to You Can't Make This Up. Thank you. Thank you. So Marina, many true crime documentaries focus on victims' lives as merely a prologue to talk about their deaths. But your film actually feels like it's about Mo's life with the crime story, not taking a backseat, but certainly not taking, you know, the driver's seat. Was that your intention going into it? Yeah, that was our intention all along when Evan came to me with this project. We really wanted it to be different and to focus on her life. Neither of us really make true crime films.

2:41So this was something we kind of wanted to have our own twist to it and really honor her and her journey. Evan, do you want to speak to that as well? Sure. As Marina said, we neither of us have ever made a film like this before. And without the character at the center of the film, we wouldn't have pursued it. And so I think for us, Mariah herself is the reason this movie is being made. And when we first met her family, Karen, Eric and Matt, it was as much them auditioning us as us kind of not auditioning them, but but really looking, you know, more deeply into who they are and how they engage with this trauma and who they are as people.

3:34and so it was this kind of combination of Mariah and her family that was the initial inspiration. Evan, can you talk a little bit about that process? Because I know this family, I'm sure their story's been told elsewhere. I'm sure that they haven't loved all the coverage of the story or, you know, maybe they thought some things were missing, some pieces, but they really participated in this in a meaningful way. What was that conversation with them like as you were trying to talk to them about doing right by her story? That's a great question. There were three long form journalism pieces that were written about Mariah that really stood out.

4:11And they came probably six months after the event. And the piece written in Bicycling Magazine by Rowan Garrity was the only piece that told the story of Mariah and her family as compared to leading with the events of Mariah's death. and so Rowan was kind enough to introduce us to the family and when we got on that first zoom with Karen and Eric and Matt Karen asked a very pointed question would you be doing this film if my daughter wasn't murdered right and that set the tone I think for for our partnership and collaboration which was honesty and the only way to answer that question was truthfully And so I think they understood very early on that, A, they were dealing with people who were going to approach them with transparency.

5:07And I think, B, we were coming at it from the right direction. Needless to say, this was the hardest project I've certainly ever worked on from a kind of emotional or relationship standpoint. The Wilsons were not interested in a true crime version of this film. And so working with Marina and Netflix to strike the right balance there was really, really hard. and you never know how someone is going to react, especially given the story here and the circumstances. Right. Marina, can you talk a little bit about Mariah's childhood? I mean, as soon as I saw some of the opening shots, I'm like, that's New England.

5:50I live in New Hampshire, very familiar with this part of the world. But she's sort of had a kind of an incredible upbringing. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I just want to say, we're talking about a woman who was murdered. And well, when Evan called me initially about this, he was like, this is this film is going to be inspiring. And I was like, what are you talking about? She was murdered. And I didn't get it. And I called him this week and just said, you pulled it off because I didn't think it was possible. And what's so amazing is everyone saying that they find the film so inspiring. So the way that I would answer that question is there were a couple of things that happened.

6:32I first read this article, right, because I saw Mariah's face. I saw this photo of her. And I have a daughter who I can almost not talk about without crying to a third party. And it was just this image of this woman that was so striking to me. And then I read this piece. And I have been to Eastbrook. I've swam in Lake Willoughby. You know, I am a New Englander. I still live there a part of the year. My wife's from New England. And it was very much a connection point for this project. And I do think that the context of where Mariah was raised and how she was raised and who raised her 100 % informs this film, informs who she became, and also informed kind of the relationship with the people fighting for justice for her in Austin.

7:32because they recognized that these were small town, Northern Vermont people who were fish out of water and coming to Austin to experience this trial. And so there was something really beautiful about, yeah, not only where she was from, but how that was protected and how it impacted the relationship the DAs had on the family and their, And I think you can see that in the film, too. Yeah. What did you learn about the community of the cycling scene? I mean, I know one person who is like a mountain bike, gravel racing type person in this kind of community. And I know that it is from everything he tells me, not because I've experienced it myself, like a real cogent community of people, not just a sport people do recreationally and then don't think about otherwise.

8:26So did you learn about that while you were making this documentary? So many people, right, love cycling and the escapism of cycling. Right. Because it provides this distraction from the realities of the world. And Mariah herself in her journals, which we include in the film, right, she talks about this feeling of emptying. It's a beautiful paradox. Emptying herself can be such a fulfilling experience. this is always one of my favorite parts about racing and i'm already looking forward to more of these moments and i think there's also cycling brings you back to childhood right and that's a major component for many of these people and so when violence entered that sphere it punctured this sense of peace and community and positivity for lots and lots of people.

9:27Beautifully said. You know, it says something about Karen and Eric Wilson that they could say, hey, you went to this Ivy League school, but we want you to do what you love doing. And I'm wondering about the feedback loop of that, because it seemed that Mariah really brought something to all the spaces that she was in, sort of a joy, a competitiveness that was aspirational instead of unrelatable. Araya, how would you describe that? Because I think I'm watching the story and honestly, given what they've been through and given everything that's happened, like there's just so much love and support.

10:04And that really just continues to carry on despite everything that's gone on. Can you can you just talk about that? I think that really good parents allow their kids to follow their dreams, whether they've gone to Ivy League schools or not. I was looking at old videotape of my dad filming me when I was a struggling actress in New York, and he was so charmed by me, as I'm sure Evan will be charmed by what his daughter does after she graduates from college. You know, it's like you're in love with your kid and their journey. And I think Karen, Eric and Matt, they're such a fantastic family. There was so much love, so much support.

10:45And I think they just wanted her to soar and be who she wanted to be. And I think you can't help but capture that when you, you know, speak to them and see them and see how they were as a family. Yeah. One of the important figures in the film and in Mariah's life was Caitlin Cash, who everyone calls Cash. Could you tell me about her? I mean, yeah. Is there a better care? Is there a better, more beautiful, honest, deep character than person than Caitlin Cash? Yeah. I mean, I, she leaves me speechless. I felt so inadequate and so guilty. I'm like, if only I would have come home sooner. If only I would have not gone to dinner.

11:36If only I would have forced her to come with me. There was a million what-if questions. One of the strongest, most impressive people I've ever met in my life. She was the first person we ever spoke to or I ever spoke to about the project. She was the kind of gatekeeper initially because I think the Wilsons felt like Cash is such an integral part of this story that if she didn't feel good about it, they weren't going to feel good about it. And given the particulars of this story, given the trauma involved, Cash has been so steadfast in wanting to support Mariah and introduce her to new people and do right by her.

12:27watching her at the trial. So, you know, I was there in the courtroom when she gave her victim impact statement and just the mental, emotional gymnastics and work that was required to do that in front of that courtroom and, you know, stare this murderer directly in the eyes. Yeah, it kind of defies anything I think I'm capable of. And I can't believe her resilience and how she's bounced back. Yeah. Another really interesting interview in the film is Gunnar Shaw, Mariah's ex-boyfriend from college. And she apparently told him, he says, I am more in love with biking and I find all the emotion and feedback and pleasure in my life from riding my bike.

13:22And yeah, that said kind of all I needed to hear. I have to say for a man to be able to say that on camera was pretty frigging bold and courageous. And oh my God, it's such a moment. It was amazing to talk to him. You know, I think he loved her so much, but they didn't grow up together, but they grew up together in their, you know, while they were in college and the heartbreak on several levels for him was devastating. Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about where Mariah was in her career when she died? I mean, we knew she was chasing this dream. I think a lot of people don't really know a lot about this part of cycling.

14:08So what was that career like and where was she? How did she fit into it? In terms of Mariah's career trajectory, I mean, very simply, she was on the Olympic track. Initially, she was on the Olympic track as a skier. She went to Burke Mountain Academy, then went to Dartmouth, had these three ACL tears and found her way to cycling. But I think, you know, as she wrote in her journal as a young girl, I want to be at the Olympics so bad. And that's what she wanted to do. And so, you know, gravel and mountain biking was a path to achieve that. And I'll just say kind of tragically, the first article ever really written about Mariah's prowess as a cyclist was published the morning of her murder.

15:01It was like, man, have you heard about Mariah Wilson? You need to know this name. She's going to be dominating pro bike racing, moving forward for a long time. In the span of two years, she won like six or seven races. And not by minutes, not by, I mean, she won things by hours. So I bring that up because it was like right at the moment where the world was discovering Mariah as an athlete, where her superpower was there on display and all those words about her, she was murdered. Yeah, yeah. And it just makes the tragedy even more hurtful.

15:49One of the more complicated characters we meet in this documentary is somebody who was in the city where she was murdered, with whom she had a relationship with, and who ended up in the frame. And we hear a lot about him from other people in the documentary in addition to hearing his point of view. Can you talk a little bit about Colin Strickland? Colin's a very tricky character because, you know, as someone says, he didn't pull the trigger, but he played his part. I mean, there's so much in the movie that so many lines that I can't quote you, but I love that, you know, he says when he's asked on the stand, did you know her?

16:27And he says, I didn't know her. talking about his live-in, on-again, off-again girlfriend who murdered Mariah. A lot of people have very strong feelings about him. And I think I wanted to do an interview with him. He was willing to let us film, but he didn't want to sit down for an interview. Right, right. You know, what can you say? You could go and read on various Reddit forums the back and forth about what people think about Colin and how he got into this mess. Yeah. And I can tell you what I gleaned. And I mean, I don't think I think you do a very good job not being salacious in this documentary.

17:07Let me be clear. But I gleaned that he was not a great partner to women. And I gleaned that he had a reputation about around that. And we hear that Caitlin, for instance, his girlfriend was also kind of running part of his life. She was running the business part of his life and he was dependent on her in that way. But at the same time, he had her at arm's length and they were living in separate rooms. So it just seems like a complicated guy around which a lot of drama probably unfolded as a result of that. Is that accurate? I think that's accurate. I'll say two things, which is, I think, number one, it was really nice for us to examine the facts of this story.

17:50And part of the benefit of long-form storytelling, part of the benefit of making a film like this for Netflix is that you have the time to dig in, right? And so, for example, it was really nice to know that Colin and Mariah didn't continue their romantic relationship, right? That would have made it very hard for us to avoid, right? Telling that story. Did y 'all have sex? We had no physical intern. Okay. We didn't even kiss. Okay. I just want to check because with the autopsy, they're going to check everything. I know. I understand that. I think that was one thing that put to bed some of the salacious kind of drama around this and this idea of a love triangle, which didn't quite exist in the way I think the salacious media wanted it to or presented it.

18:48I think I'll also say that I feel bad for for everyone touched by this story, including Colin. And I think there are there are moments in the film, like when he's sitting in the interrogation room in the corner, hugging his knees or when we see him towards the end of the film and where his life is now. And I certainly have so much empathy for anyone who's, you know, had to go on the journey that he's had to go on, no matter the circumstances of it. It's just tragic all around. And, you know, frankly, I wish the best for him. And, you know. I wish the best for him as well. Yeah. But at the same time, I think it's a good wake up call for people to realize that their behavior can affect other people.

19:38He had no idea. Of course, he had no idea. But well, this is this is why we included Rebecca in the film, this press conference that Eric Wilson gave at the end of the trial. This sad story is a perfect example of why integrity and honesty are crucial in our personal relationships and how dishonesty can often lead to unintended consequences. Selfish manipulation, jealousy and hatred never lead to positive outcomes. It kind of directly relates to this deeper theme of, you know, values and honesty and communication and caring and empathy. And, you know, all these kind of universal values that aren't necessarily front and center in our everyday lives and what we're hearing from media and the rest of it.

20:34So I think that that relates very much to, you know, Colin as a character, too. How important is it, and I think that related to what you just said, about values, about living your life in a particular way, Mariah's diaries speak to a lot of that. Mariah's diaries, it's like you have her inner monologue, you have her feelings about what she's experiencing. I'm certain the family has been reluctant to share those materials with the world, but they end up being very important in this film. So how much did that material influence how you thought about this, what you saw, how you talked to people, and how you put the film together?

21:08Well, we were trying to really capture her voice, you know, whether on when we found the messages that she sent to Cash. I went to the meteor for happy hour. And who do I see? Colin and Caitlin and a couple other guys. Eventually Colin comes over and hug each other. Don't really say that much. It's like, oh, great to see you. Like, I don't know, super kind of weird. or the journals or anything, you know, because we didn't have a lot of video that had her speaking about anything substantial or emotional. So I shut my brain off and let my body take over, channeling every fragment of energy into my legs as I pushed my pedals as hard as humanly possible.

22:02We were really trying to milk her inner life and her journals really did that. So we were thrilled when not only we were able to find them, but the Wilsons were willing to share them with us. Because that's how you really can portray someone is by getting into their inner life, their emotional life. Right. You know, one aspect of this crime, you know, as much as it's a really gruesome and horrible crime, and I don't want to get too much into those details. But in the aftermath, there's one aspect to it that I found really surprising was that Caitlin really did have this next level plan to evade capture.

22:44And I found myself thinking there is a chance that she could still have evaded capture like, you know, months and years later because she seemed willing to run and run in a very effective way. Can you talk a little bit about that? Well, I mean, once you do something like that, I'm sure you're just running on adrenaline and like, oh, shit, what am I doing? And you're just going, going, going. You don't know what you're doing, but you're following some crazy path that your head is telling you to follow and you think you can get away with it. And she almost did. She almost did. There was no record of Caitlin's passport ever actually leaving the U.S.

23:27So I'd ask the marshals in New York to just check for her sister's passport. They discovered that her sister's passport had been used to fly from New York to Costa Rica. She almost did until they, you know, put the ad out for an English speaking yoga teacher. And she was, you know, stupid enough to to take the bait. Right, right. An editorial choice that you made was you have the porch camera from the time of the shooting, which captured the gunshots, and you used the clip, but you ducked out the audio. I'm more curious about whether or not that played into sort of a larger philosophy you have about what the audience is experiencing when they're watching a story like this.

24:08What? Do it the opposite of Dayline? Something like that. We were trying to make something deeply meaningful and not focus on the crime. Did this go back, Evan, to the conversation you had with her family about what you were going to make and what you weren't going to make? Well, I think that when your ambition is to make a character driven film and in this context, the people that you're working with or the family, you're in a constant dialogue. Right. You just asked about the home videos and the photos. Well, and the journals. Right. They didn't just hand those to us on day one, right? That was kind of like, well, maybe take a look at the journal and here's some home movies.

24:55And then, well, what are you going to use? And that isn't anyone having editorial control over anything. It's just part of a relationship, right? And it's how you get that depth that you see in the film, hopefully. And so this moment in the trial when they played that audio was really, really hard. And the Wilsons had stepped out of the courtroom when they played it. And so there was a dialogue about the 911 call, about the body cam footage, about the doorbell footage with the shots. and frankly we didn't feel like we needed the audience to hear it um we really didn't you you understand what happened to mariah when you watch this film right right from the jump um and so yeah it was it was a choice but it was also part of um having a having a relationship with real human people who are going to be deeply affected by the choices that you make and certainly this was a choice that, you know, had we included it, would have made this experience of watching the film even more traumatic than it needed to be.

26:10One of the things that really struck me was the spirit of the Wilson family themselves, because what came through to me was this incredible generosity that they have, you know, Karen's concern for Cash after the murder, even the way she spoke about Caitlin Armstrong in the film and the way she talked about her victim impact statement. I'm sure that you've both interviewed people in your career who've been through a trauma and are very angry about it or have passionate feelings about it. How rare is it how the Wilsons have handled this and the tremendous amount of empathy and grace they have in the aftermath of this murder?

26:44I mean, they're incredible people. Yeah, I think it's incredibly rare. But Matt said something to me. You have to say, when we premiered at South by Southwest, I really didn't know what it was going to be like. I hadn't seen them in months. I didn't know how to act, what to wear, whether to smile, right? And I got there and saw them and they were so full of life and light and beauty. And this was really kind of like seeing the film play for an audience and seeing the audience response was such a closure for them. And Matt told me, God, I've got to get this right. Matt told me that he realized he couldn't, he didn't want to live in the anger.

27:32Caitlin Armstrong took so many things away from my sister. She took away her life, her freedom, her ability to experience this world, the ability to feel joy. Only just consequence for that is that she should no longer be able to have any of those experiences either. I think to Maria's point, seeing this finished film gave them a sense of closure because they felt, especially Matt, felt like he had been holding Mariah and her story and the need to make sure that was story was shared in the right way. Um, he was holding that so tightly and he felt such a responsibility to his sister to get it right and to make sure, you know, Mariah was presented to the world and introduced to the world in the right way.

28:34And so it was really gratifying and moving to hear him not just say, I like the film and good job, but I now can move on with my life because I feel like Mariah's story is out in the world and told in the right way and that people are going to learn about her and be affected by her in the ways that, you know, we were hoping they would. And be inspired by her, which was your goal. It was beautiful to see Matt at South by Southwest, because I could see the transformation over the past two years. I saw this young man tied up in knots. And as you know, the first time I interviewed him, and then the second time I interviewed him, he was a little better.

29:22But like to see him see this and move on and break out of that kind of hole this had was so touching and gratifying.

29:39Well, that happened after they saw the film. But when you were making the film, as the credits roll, we have this footage of the ride for Mo, which is this very joyous event in her honor. But the very last images are of the family, Karen, Eric and Matt having these thrilling bike rides through the woods as a family. Can you talk about why you wanted to end it there? Hmm. It really spoke those images with the beautiful music just kind of was really what I think, Evan, you can speak for yourself, but I think what Evan was trying to do with this story and what the amazing editors that we had and composer and myself, we were trying to show you that, yes, you can.